How A Marketing Agency Uses Podcasts For Growth And Team Alignment With Chris Burres

We reconnect with Chris Burres to talk about the real mechanics of podcast marketing, brand legacy, and why consistency beats quick wins when you are trying to earn attention. We also zoom out into AI governance and longevity, from building AI-native workflows to the accelerating science behind ESS60 and “longevity escape velocity.” 

• the origin story behind EWR and what a rebrand really costs 
• podcast cadence as a growth strategy and a team alignment tool 
• why interviews build relationships and distribution faster than solo shows 
• what it can cost to buy a premium podcast appearance and when it pays off 
• AI governance basics for regulated industries and privacy risk 
• building an AI-first company with workflows, access and accountability 
• longevity escape velocity and why medical knowledge is accelerating 
• ESS60, mitochondria, oxidative stress and why users report focus plus sleep 

Guest Contact Information: 

Linkedin: linkedin.com/chrisburres

Website: myvitalc.com

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Transcript

Reunion And The EWR Rebrand Story

SPEAKER_00 0:03

This is the unknown secrets of internet marketing. Your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business full potential. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. I am your host, Matthew Bertram. I have a special guest for everyone today, for the longtime listeners. You'll recognize his voice. Uh, I have Chris Burris on the show. Chris, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Hello, Matt. It was great hearing that intro music. I haven't heard that intro music in a very long time. Um, and I don't do you know the origin of that music?

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Your buddy's band, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

It's a band that that went defunct. Um, and and I loved that music. And the title of that song is Gold Mine, um, which I think there's a gold mine in marketing, there's a gold mine in internet marketing, there's a gold mine uh in SEO. So I I I always liked the song and and thought it was appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

And for you first-time listeners or recent listeners, uh, Chris is actually the founder of EWR, uh, as well as he was the original host of this podcast. We co-hosted it for a long time, uh, and then I've eventually taken it over. And um, you know, Chris and I stay in contact, and uh, I just thought it'd be fun to bring him back on the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah. Uh, you know, you you mentioned the founder of EWR. There's been uh a journey even with the title with the name. And by the way, you know, one of the things, and um that I I think you you know, there's lots of places that I have lots of room to improve in. Uh, one of the places that I'm good is I don't get emotionally attached to some things that other people do. As an example, our company initially was eWebstyle.com, right? So, and it had a hyphen, e hyphen webstyle. And funny story, uh uh another business partner couldn't find it because he didn't use the hyphen, but we didn't have the choice, right? So we so we just were stuck with it. But at some point, my business coach comes to me and says, Hey, I'm I'm kind of like pitching you guys to work with these clients, and I'm talking about how you're focused on results, and then the name of the company is eWeb style. And he was like, I think you should change it to eWeb results. And it took me, I don't know, 30 seconds, like, uh, yeah, okay, yeah, done. And then then we were eweb results, and then as you came in, sort of taking over the CEO role, uh, you wanted to kind of go for bigger uh marketing, go after bigger markets um and kind of bigger clients, and you felt like a consolidation of the name. I don't uh if you want to share your logic on that, uh, but it's it's that's been a journey in and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I I still like the name e Web Results, I think it represents uh what we do uh and who we are. Um, I think it was kind of when every all there was a lot of like uh refresh of brand names, uh like KFC, Kentucky Fried Chicken. And so I really wanted to uh honor uh what we had built and what you had built. And so EWR is actually e-web results. Yeah, a lot of people think it's uh tied into New York Airport, and we are uh looking at launching a campaign that's talking about we we have a lot of publicly traded companies and international companies now, and kind of like the uh runway to the skies, or you know, there the marketing team's been coming up with some different ideas about it's like a uh an international hub for marketing. Um, and and yeah, I I think EWR digital, um, when I look back at it, uh eWeb results is a lot more memorable. So from even a like a branding name, there's uh I think a lot of value in that. And um, you know, that that was definitely an experience to go through a rebrand for anybody that's gone through a rebrand. Uh, that's that's a really long and hard decision. And then there's a lot that goes into changing everything over, especially when you're a 25 plus year company, Chris.

Podcasting As Training And Marketing

SPEAKER_02 4:12

So yeah. Well, and and and it's funny how old of a company are we that we have E, right? Because electronic was a big thing, EWR result. So um, so very cool. That's been that's been a fantastic uh piece of the journey. I I I'm the old guy, right, who's been uh on a podcast since 2009, right? So here we are 2026. Like I don't know. That's uh uh what is that 16 wait, if it's 2010, that would be 16, 17 years uh of podcasting. Because I do have a podcast now called Live Beyond the Norms, uh related to what I focus on uh on a daily basis now. Uh, but yeah, I'm I'm uh I don't I guess an old school podcaster.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Well, I you know, the the E like the E- certainly dates the name and and I think that um you know it it was time to to update from that standpoint, but I think that shows um tenure and like stability and length. And then, you know, when we would joke even eight years ago, uh when it was starting to get hot, uh, we were saying that you know, podcasting before it was cool, it was really a means to communicate uh information to a remote team, uh like of like what's going on and what changes are being made. And I I really think that that format now, the one to many, it's a way to disseminate information. And I know that I've you know, I've done a lot of interviews recently, and you and I were talking about it previously, but for the audience, I was going through a Goldman Sachs NBA, which I may or may not have mentioned uh on an episode or two. And I basically prior to that, because there's been a couple summers where when you when when you were a lot more involved, Chris, um like we didn't keep up the cadence of the weekly podcast, and that was part of people's ritual, and and we lost a lot of audience uh during that frame, and a lot of other people came out doing stuff, and and so like I had remembered that lesson, and and so I banked a lot of podcasts and I I really just dripped them uh since the beginning of the year. Uh and you know, I I have a lot of great guests that are uh in the works uh in line as I'm a lot more active. And you know, I know you and I wanted to maybe talk about some of the things you're doing with your podcast, and I know a lot of other people have started podcasts, um, and it's not an immediate uh successful like result, like SEO. Like you make a couple changes and then boom, like you got some improvements and things are getting indexed quickly. It compounds over time. Um, but there are certain things that you can do and learn that are shortcuts in how to be a better podcaster or how to be better at content distribution.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yeah, I well, so one, the immediate results. I'll I'll share how long it took before we got our first call. The way we ended up starting the podcast is uh we had a sales manager, and I didn't know he was the first really kind of the first hire, and I didn't know like how to train him, right? So it's like, hey, here's this podcast. I can't even remember the name of the podcast. Some of this is out of New Jersey or something. Hey, listen to this. And he probably like uh a week later came and said, Hey, why don't we do our own podcast? Uh that was probably on a Monday. That Friday, we recorded our first podcast. Like, like that, that was like, how do we jump on these things? That makes a lot of sense. And so, one great way to train up people who are coming on board, Hake, like this is how you do SEO. Two, to what you mentioned, this is how you kind of have cohesiveness in the team, right? So everyone on the team is listening to the podcast, they're on the same page, they have the same enthusiasm, the same excitement. Um, and then of course, you know, potentially as a marketing strategy, uh, I can tell you we didn't get our first phone call for 12 months, right? So we were putting a weekly podcast out. Uh was it weekly? It was weekly uh podcast out and for 12 months uh before we even got our first, like, hey, uh, you know, uh you guys exist. I hear you. Um, so yeah, it can be a longer strategy. And and there are things that I would um that I would might do differently um uh now because we didn't do interviews really until you came on board. And and that's a it's a smart strategy to do interviews. Now I'll tell you kind of in the YouTube space and kind of what from my experience now, because I I actually uh record and put out two podcasts per week for Liv Beyond.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

So I just want to say, like, Chris is on the level of content production as like an Alex Hermozi. Like, I am serious, and you've met Alex Hermozy, like I mean, Gary Vanderchuk, whatever, like you are pumping out in your vertical more content than anybody I've ever seen. Like doing the online where you did like 60 interviews, it was like an online conference. I mean, you've taken podcasting to the next level.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Well, I'm gonna share the there's two pieces to this story that you're involved in. Um, so one, I remember when we first started working together, one of your statements was hey, companies of the future need to be a media company. And in my in my head, I was like, like I like okay, it didn't really resonate. And I'm in a studio now, right? Like I know, like I'm literally at this office, have a studio, and I believe that as a company, we're doing the right thing when I'm in this studio because we are now a media company, uh, and that's really important. The other piece being on podcast really wasn't on my radar. So I'm not talking about you know having a podcast. Being on podcast wasn't on my radar. You came to me and you said, I've got this vendor who will get you on podcasts. Um, it's not in my budget right now. I need you to buy from this guy so that he gets you on podcasts because I think I need to keep him in my heap hip pocket and I think it'll be a value. What a great decision, right? Like, so now at this company I've hired like five different companies to get me on different podcasts. Um, I I think I have two or three, uh, right. Well, at least two interviewing another to get me on podcast because this is a viable strategy. Yeah, go ahead.

Paying To Appear And Finding ROI

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Okay, so Chris, I want to ask you this question. I know you were gonna probably get here, but I I wanted to interview style ask you this question.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

What is the most money? Or if you don't want to share that, yeah, but what is the most money that you've ever spent to get on a podcast?

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Oh, uh the most money I have ever spent was$30,000 to get onto a podcast. Um, and we spent that at the end of last year, and um, and that was for Dave Asprey's podcast, right? Uh, that was uh ostensibly 30 minutes of being on his podcast. Uh, and I will share it was well worth it. Like I like if I could if I could do that every whatever time period, uh, I would continue to do that because that was uh, you know, when when here's what I joke, because I've been on like 140 different podcasts, and and what I say is if that podcast has audience, which they usually don't, right? And if that podcast, pat podcast er has influence, which they even have less influence than they have audience typically, uh, then it will move the needle. So a lot of the podcasts that I go on, barely traceable sales, but I'm gonna tell the story, right? You should be comfortable telling the story to anyone who will listen. And if you could potentially get on a podcast and tell it to 10 to 100 people instead of just one, you should do that. Like that's that's my opinion. There may be some point where um, you know, we're generating enough value and it's not worth my time to do that. I have a hard time seeing where that is. I just believe uh I'll I'll share with you. I just recorded a podcast. Uh the guys in the vision space, he we start talking about my product. He's like, Oh, I've been looking for you, right? Like for you related to my product. Um, I sell a lot of this stuff, so uh I want to use you, right? Yeah, yeah. I didn't I didn't know that was gonna happen, right? That's because um I'm going and by the way, a couple things. A previous interview I did, he asked the pre that person, very big in the space, her name's JJ Virgin. Um, he she's been on TV on all sorts of kind of uh physical training stuff, and she was like, Oh, yeah, that was a the that interview was a lot of fun, right? So I'm building these relationships, and it's one of the things that I think is really valuable. Now I will say, right, because I uh before we started, you were saying I've got like my goal is like three interviews and then one of your kind of summaries. I will share it's been told to me, and I look at the data in terms of like audience size and visibility. It should be three of you talking and sharing your expertise and one interview, interview. Use the interview to kind of collaborate and share audience and build a relationship. And then what people are interested in is like, hey, how do I do SEO? Oh my god, how do I do SEO for uh AI? Right. And and is it different if I want to do well on Grok or I want to do well on um on Gemini or Chat G, like those are the things that people will tune into and connect with you and ask questions about. So anyway, that just just I rambled there.

AI Governance And Regulated Industries

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, no, I I mean I have a whiteboard right here behind me. I have everything ready to go. It's uh it's just getting the time. I think uh I'm I'm speaking at uh OTC next week and then uh about AI. Uh okay, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

So you just said I'm speaking at OTC next week. Most of the people, unless they're in the Houston area, don't know what it is. So it's Offshore Technology Conference. Yeah, they don't know how big it is. Like this is Shell Erickson, right? This is every major oil company, and then really major service company from the level of of uh of just making generators or uh everything downhole oil and gas related. Uh, it's it's an amazing conference. And the fact that you're speaking there is is huge.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

It's yeah, it's the biggest uh oil and gas conference in the world. Um, and and I've been going to it for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

By the way, I don't I don't know if anyone out there knows. Um, oil and gas has a big impact in the world. I guess we we know that now because of the straight of our moves. But like it's huge, the biggest of the most important industry. Go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, and and that's really um EWR uh focuses on regulated industries. So we work a lot in healthcare. Uh, we got a big footprint here in the Houston area, uh, as well as with oil and gas. We actually just got uh notified for uh uh AMA finalists uh for uh AI Digital Transformation Award, and that's for a publicly traded oil company that we're working with.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Um American Marketing Association Marketing Association, yeah. We've got a couple trophical trophies from them from there already.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, I um I need to do a better job talking about what EWR does. Um, when I look at the audience sets, uh EWR has a very different audience set than the podcast. I think that a lot of the people that are podcasters are um other agencies, uh freelancers, web developers, and and I I really think AI and governance is is what I'm talking a lot more about now. And I'm trying to insert it into the conversation a little bit more, but that is really why I bought um Motal Point, uh, which is uh a go-to-market consultancy for oil and gas from as we're talking about podcasts. Uh, this was his former business before he started OGGN, oil and gas global network, which is the largest uh oil and gas podcasting network. And so, you know, certainly Chris, um you, you know, we had the case study, which I think is still on the website where uh we had limited budget and we started getting you into podcasts, and now it's like your KPI for for what you're doing. Um, so I guess that this episode is about, well, let's talk about some longevity at some point, but um but but about podcast marketing um has really been uh influential and in how I've viewed the world and and I think it's a part of a go-to-market strategy about content creation. And so really drank our own Kool-Aid, but I'm seeing with what is happening with AI and power users of AI will understand what I'm talking about, or if we're talking about automation, is really understanding like even like a developer like governance um and like permissions and like who has the judgment to make decisions, because I think it all starts there. So, like all the marketing that we're doing and how to make a company AI first, and like we're getting a lot of those kind of uh opportunities with EWR. Um, but it but before all that, like you you gotta make some really hard decisions and map everything out. And and and I think that that was a little bit too much for EWR to do it all. And so I wanted to have a dedicated focus to that, and we're working a lot in energy, and so it it it really made a lot of sense. Um uh as Mark was um, you know, uh looking to exit. And and so so I put my hat in the ring and and and we talked about it and and uh got got that done. And and so that's a new brand that that we're we're launching. And for those of you that uh are looking for podcasts where you want to hear my opinion, uh I do do a podcast called uh oil and gas sales and marketing, but a lot of it has to do uh with just general marketing, but it's applied to oil and gas. Um, and I bring the marketing side of it, Mark brings the sales side of it, and then we do bring on other guests. So that that's kind of a different angle. And so you might get a lot of uh my thoughts there. So might want to go check that out as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Very cool. And so your talk at OTC, the offshore technology conference, uh, is on AI governance. Is that is that kind of what that talk is about?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Well, funny enough, I got asked to speak about AI governance, yes. Uh, and then when we got on the call, they asked me to moderate the the panel. And so really uh Ericsson is um setting up their own kind of private networks uh for people to run agents on. Um there's more to that, and they have a number of clients, and so we're gonna be uh well, I'm gonna be moderating a talk and I'm gonna just kind of provide a governance framework. There's a lot of things that are happening in AI, and a lot of people haven't talked about governance yet. A lot of people are talking about application, but the conversation in the regulations and like the laws are are are getting ahead of what people are talking about. And and there's a little bit of a mismatch, and there's some fines and there's some issues, and people are gonna start asking. That's why I joined the uh AIPP, the International Association of Privacy Professionals, of like data governance of what are people doing with their data? Like, where are you sending it to? Who has access to it? Like these questions are gonna start getting asked, like AI policies internally at a company, like these are things that haven't been talked about. Everybody's just talking about output and like performance, but but yeah, we're seeing a lot with tools, things are breaking, like how is it grabbing information? Like, um, you know, there's always been the issue of like uh people using images that are licensed by somebody else, like like all these AIs are ingesting all this data, and how does how is that controlled, you know? Um, so sorry, I have a client calling me.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Yeah, no, I think yeah, I think that's really right. A AI, you know, again, productivity is is off the charts, and I'm excited about um uh you know what what's coming down the pipe uh in in in AI, but you you you often you know you're so excited and jump in to use it that you're not thinking about what are the risks, right? What are the business risks, what are the data risks, and I think that's um that's really important that you're that you're talking about that.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Well, that like okay, so like when AI came on the scene, we certainly started playing around with it early, but I I didn't talk about it immediately because this is like how my brain works and like a new technology, I'm one that wants to read the manual. Okay, like, and so like I I've done a lot of the online trainings, uh, I've done a lot of like masterminds workshops. Like, I really wanted to get my head around it. I took some courses at Harvard and Oxford, and like I just I wanted to get a very, very solid foundation before I started talking about it. And I knew that this was gonna be bigger than the internet. My mom was one of the first employees of Microsoft. I saw what happened with the internet, I was like, this is gonna be bigger. Like, let me build that foundation. And what I'm finding out, Chris, as I'm talking to people, um, they don't have the same foundational knowledge as me. So I can't, I have to kind of walk back um what I'm saying to get them to the point where we can have a conversation about something. Um, and you know, I I I think I'm relying a lot on all the hours and all the things that I did to put in to help frame my mental map of like how to deal with this and where I sit today. I'm like, anytime we Look at a system or you know, some kind of marketing system that we're building, or what we're doing with automation, or like what's a client doing, it's like assessing what they're currently doing, what their current workflows are, what they're using it, and then how we can apply um different applications, and how do we get the team to become like a connected worker and hooked into like this new way of thinking? And I think that that's the step change that's going to be really difficult for a lot of businesses because there's a statistic out there that something like 71% of businesses are still operating like they're in the industrial era, and they're copying and pasting like things from one spreadsheet to another. And it's like that can all be done through like APIs and hooks, and you know, and so I don't know. I I think that now people are getting confronted with okay, the world is changing, I need to change with it. How do I do it? I believe it all starts with governance and and um well, you know, cybersecurity is a component of that. We do that with Cohosta, but um I don't know, like the world's in a different place now, and I think people are running really hard, and you hear all these horror stories about AI, but it's like because people like if you give somebody a bunch of weapons, you know, and you don't teach people how to pay like that thing's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Let's go with a nail gun. If you give them a nail gun, like things can go wrong, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Like, they're they have to just go, here's a nail gun, and they don't like explain what it is or how to do it, and then you drop it across everybody in the world. So now everybody in the world has a nail gun. I think that's great. Um, you know, like some some interesting things are gonna happen, like people are gonna do some really cool things, but people are gonna do some really uh not so good things as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

So, yeah, and a lot of those will end up on video uh on YouTube or or would end up on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

There's gotta be a channel for that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Things things not to do with nature.

Longevity Escape Velocity Explained

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Well, well, Chris, let's talk about let's talk about what what it is you're doing. Um, and you know, like there like we've talked a lot about podcasts. We've thrown a lot out. People are probably scratching stuff down. I probably need to put a ton of links in the show notes. Um, like you know, longevity is like was nascent a couple years ago. I think that you've been one of the biggest influences and in impactors in that space, and now like it's it's not anti-aging, it's longevity, like it's quality of life, it's it's life extension. Like, this is a different category that may build on top of it or might have a Venn diagram overlay on top uh with it, but but this is something totally revolutionary, and like I've seen like I've been following you on social media, and when we talk, like I mean, there's full-blown conferences, there's retreats, there's so many different products out there, there's regimens. Now they're talking about um in like peptides and like like I mean, everything's coming like front front of mind, right? Um, even and and so I would love to hear your kind of framework for how you're looking at the world and how people should be viewing health, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Yeah, well, uh, I I I think they should be view viewing health optimistically and longevity optimistically. There's a thing called uh the longevity escape velocity, which the concept is in any given year, the medical community extends life by slightly more than a year, right? And if you do the math on that, at some point there could be somebody who is the last person to die of natural causes. Uh, it would you know suck to be that well, I guess they wouldn't know, but it would suck to be that person who's the last one to die of natural causes. And and so this longevity escape velocity is something that I wholeheartedly believe in. And it sounds crazy, right, Chris? So you believe that we can live forever. Uh, I think we can get there. And here is the evidence that I use to do that. Uh, so in 1950, medical information doubled every 50 years, every five, zero years. When I started talking about this kind of piece and this longevity escape velocity, uh beginning of 2025, medical information was doubling every three months. Now, this is hard to comprehend, but what that means is at the end of 2026, we're gonna have 16 times more information, medical information, than we did at the beginning, right? So it's not just doubled, tripled, 16 times more information at the end of 2026. So if it is possible, it is going to happen, right? We're gonna identify you know some of the key things, how to extend telomeres, uh, how to address uh uh stem cell depletion because of I'm gonna throw out some stuff, but be because of red bone marrow shrinkage. We're gonna address the you know chronic inflammation. These things are gonna be addressed. Uh, and if you think about it, uh the fact that the information is 16 times as much has nothing to do with AI, right? Like, okay, maybe we can write papers a little bit faster or whatever, but the real value is the uh immense amount of data that AI can process. For example, a really good scientific experimenter wakes up and they have 10, 50, 100 kinds of experiments, experiments that they could run. And they're like, ah, you know, whatever my subconscious brain says we should do these three. Whereas the AI can come in and go, no, you shouldn't do those three, right? Like, because one's gonna fail entirely. And if the other two succeed, no big deal. You should do these three because they're more likely to succeed in the area that you want to, and they'll also have add-on benefits in some other you know realm of biology. So now not only is it 16 times more information, it's better studies from the beginning. And so I'm extremely excited about this.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So, so so what I started thinking about when you were talking was one, uh, Google like mapped all the proteins or something like that a couple years ago. And then as you were talking, you're like, oh, AI will be like, let's just do all of them. Like, and and well, um, because I'm starting to see uh, and we're we're using this in ad sets too, where where you can have a um uh uh what is it, uh synthetic audience, right? So you can take a synthetic audience, you can drop like a a marketing message into that audience, and you can see how it impacts and kind of how the virality spreads. Um, you can take like just pure compute processing. Um, you can put like a digital twin, you can create a digital twin of this test and who you're gonna test it on, and then and then you can run all these tests simultaneously and actually figure out um uh what that output is, or you can start with the most uh beneficial you think, and then build on that data to to go through that whole cycle of testing, which could take that 50 years, and you could do it in you know 50 days or something like that, right?

ESS60 And The Nobel Connection

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah. So then again, you know what tests to run, you know the most optimized tests to run. And and and that's really um, I think that's really exciting. And and just to share, like the way I ended up here uh is because of this molecule, right? So I'm holding up a model of a molecule. Uh if you're listening, just imagine a soccer ball where the lines on the ball represent the bonds between the carbon atoms. We have a spherical molecule of 60 carbon atoms. We call that ESS60. Uh, I'll be real brief here. I can talk for hours on this stuff because it's just fascinating. And we're doing lots of research. We're starting clinical trials this year. Um, but the molecule was thought to be toxic. They put it in a toxicity study instead of being toxic, the test subjects that they gave it to, in this case, Westar rats, lived 90% longer than the control group. So the single longest longevity experimental results on mammals in history, peer-reviewed published research, is because of this molecule. By the way, I've been manufacturing it since 1991, right? Um, like a long time before we started eWeb style, eWeb results, EWR digital. Uh, I've been manufacturing and involved in this business from then. It just happens at the time that I kind of started to step out of EWR, um, the the the this moved into the health and wellness space and and the kind of entrepreneurial opportunity double, tripled or whatever. And that's another thing that we need to talk about today um is is the is the gauntlet has been handed over, right? The crown or the crown jewel of digital marketing has been handed over. And now Matt is the person uh to take this EWR crown uh and carry it forward and you know, really carry it forward into the AI generation. Like that's a huge piece of it. Uh so I'm I'm really uh excited. You are complete owner. Um, and this is I I feel very happy that it's going into the hands of somebody who's interested in the legacy, right? Like you when you were interested as the CEO in changing the name, you were also very interested in keeping the legacy with it, right? So you could have gone from eWeb style to just Matt's business or whatever, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Purple Gorilla. I was going out like Purple Gorilla, we actually own that domain, but and but wanted to keep that legacy, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Um, and so I really appreciate that you're carrying this forward. Um and I'm excited about the things that you're gonna do uh and and and keeping an eye on that and staying in contact so that we can uh share share great stories.

How ESS60 May Support Energy

SPEAKER_01 31:38

No, well, I I appreciate that, Chris. And um, you know, it was it was interesting to see, like when we saw the opportunity and my pharmaceutical background and like what we were doing, uh, and like to see the opportunity grow. Um, and that that's what I wanted to highlight is Chris is like so. One is this Bucky Ball won a Nobel Prize or something like that. Yeah, okay. So this is like this is not just like somebody in their garage making something like this. It was like one of the key researchers, which you introduced me to, uh, was the uh like um the assistant to the person that discovered it at Rice, uh and helped kind of get get all this going when y'all got it going. And he's very entrepreneurial as well and has a bunch of other businesses. Um but y'all manufacture it, you are the biggest manufacturers in North America of something that is very, very unique. I remember when we started, I I, you know, I had some pharmaceutical contacts, but we were bringing in copackers and we were bringing in different people, and no one would touch it because it wasn't based on benzene, right? And everything was kind of based on benzene. And so this is like completely revolutionary that almost anybody that I was associated with in the in the pharma industry didn't even know how to approach this. But as we started getting into like personal medicine doctors, they were like, Oh, we're buying this out of Switzerland and we can only get very small doses of it. And like, I mean, so it was there was a nascent community around this and the success. And and then y'all started manufacturing it in a heavy way, and it it just grew and grew and grew. And like for somebody that's like works at night, you know, or like, okay, like I'm not a shift worker, let's say, but like, I mean, when you program or like when you're working, like at night, it's quiet, like you don't, you know, there's there's issues. Um, like you're always looking for something to enhance your cognitive ability, to to stay awake, to sleep, to um, well, make sure you're healthy and you don't have issues. Um, and when I was on site with you and like both businesses were growing, okay, the testimonials that came in blew my mind. And I know that you weren't paying for them, you weren't doing it like anything, like like the quality, also people were buying what you were producing, watering it down, okay, and then reselling it. And you weren't doing that. And I I mean, I started taking it. I remember I gave it to my cat, it saved my cat's life. That the the vet said there's gonna die. Like, I've seen this firsthand, I've heard the testimonials come in, I know the quality of what you're making, and it's part of actually my um well, my daily routine is is variable as it is, but it would be part of my daily routine, it's certainly part of my weekly routine. I I always do take this stuff, and um, I I do just generally feel better for for doing it, and I know that the quality's there, and I know like I all the testimonials in every area, like it just makes your body operate better. I mean, I don't know, you could speak to this better. I just am looking at it from the outside, looking in, and and it it's just really incredible what this molecule does for people.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah, well, a couple things there. So, one, uh, we started manufacturing this in 1991. The guys who won the Nobel Prize won the Nobel Prize in 1996, so a whole five years before.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

And they used your stuff, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah, well, to some degree, yeah. Like basically every so I'm not a very braggadocious person, uh, but this is as braggadocious as I'll get. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the fact that we were delivering commercial quantities of this carbon nanomaterial to scientists around the world and they could get their hands on it and they could run experiments on it, and they could understand how valuable the molecule was, is part of the reason that those three scientists, Dr. Smalley, Dr. Croto, and Dr. Curl, won the Nobel Prize, at least in terms of time frame. So we're very early on. You talked about uh some of the benefits. Our most consistent testimonial is people take it in the morning, they report mental focus and energy during the day, and then better sleep that night. Um, those are all brain related, right? And the reason they're all brain related is because of what's the theory that behind what's driving this, which is the boss theory. So that sense for the buffering oxidative stress system. So um, long and short, we know the molecule gets into the mitochondria from peer-reviewed published research. Uh, and we know that the molecule can hold up to six negatively charged particles. So your mitochondria is an energy source, right? It's the powerhouse of every cell. There's between 50 and 5,000 cells and uh mitochondria in every cell in your body, except for your blood cells, which have zero, and your brain and neurons, which have two million. It's amazing how much energy our nervous system uses relative to our other systems. It's just off, it's off the charts, right? 50 to 5,000, 2 million. Um, when that energy source produces the negative byproduct, because every energy source you know produces a negative byproduct, like a car going down the road has exhaust. In this case, it's these negatively charged particles. And because the ES is 60 molecules in there, it can hold on to them so they don't run around and do a bunch of damage and really give your uh your mitochondria, your cells, the buffer it needs in order to manage these stress situations, these reactive oxygen species without having incurred damage. Now, just a couple things like to take something in the morning and positively impact sleep at night, that's phenomenal. I'm not, you know, now I've been eight years asking the question, what do you know that you can take in the morning and positively impact sleep at night? Nobody, there isn't anything.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Even impact you like weeks, months down the road from what the studies have shown. I mean, I know like I I did take it this morning, uh, not because you were gonna be on the show or anything, but I like actually legit take it, like it's part of my regimen, and I'll I'll I'll I'll you know, I have a bottle and I'll do a chug of it, you know. And um I I definitely like when I know I need that cognitive focus, it it's part of the regimen for that. And and I mean, I don't know, like you're talking about I it sounded like you're talking about like free radicals and like you know, basically like uh it's a super antioxidant essentially, um, like way stronger than some of the stuff that's out there. It's like like a like ultra off the chart kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Well, there just real quick there's a study, uh ad hoc study on the web, 172 times more powerful than vitamin C, peer-reviewed published research, 125 times more powerful than vitamin C.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Yeah, no, that that's what I was referencing. I'm glad you articulated it better for the audience. Um, it's legit. Like uh it it's it's legit. It it my cat's still alive, actually. Um that's the cat's living like really a lot, like way longer. It's like I think it's like 17 years, like the cat's really wow, and they were gonna put it down.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

What was that?

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Oh, that was that was five or six years ago. Yeah, yeah, maybe longer. Um, but I yeah, I I really buy into the the longevity story, and um, like I mean, I I've I I always ask you, like, is this guy legit or like what is he saying, or whatever? But I mean, people are talking of like getting old is a uh like a disease that can be or a illness that can be cured, um, is kind of how I'm starting to see people talk about it. I like you talk about technology advancements, you talk about health advancements, and you know, they're going they're going hand in hand. And I mean, I think that uh, you know, uh my vital C is in the conversation uh and what SES research is producing. So um I I mean I think it's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah, well, I like I said, I just recorded a podcast with a uh kind of a cutting-edge optometrist, and he's like, This is something uh I'm already giving to my clients, and I want to like focus on your product since you guys are the originators, right? So um if you well, and your eyes have a uh a significantly higher quantity of mitochondria in them anyway, rods, cones, um, you know, different parts of your eyes, because they're so intricate intricately uh combined with your brain, right? Like your eyes and brain and and actually even dental work um is all like one uh nervous system all tied together. So um, yeah, it's exciting. One of the things that I do love about pet testimonials, right? Anytime you're hearing about something new, something that's going through your head should be like what what percentage of the impact is due to the placebo effect? Because there is some. Like the placebo effect impacts medications, it impacts your workout. If you do a workout and are convinced it won't do anything for you, it in fact will do less for you, right? Like that's how powerful the placebo uh effect is. The thing with pets is there's no placebo effect, right? Like your pet is alive, not because of a your like of a placebo effect, it's because uh this had some benefits for your cat.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, well, I think placebo is about mindset, okay? And and like I was listening this morning, there was a study that said, like, if you're thinking about practicing something, like a musical instrument or something like that, 50% impact of actually practicing is thinking about practicing, and that's how powerful the brain is. And so being in a positive state of mind, focusing on what you're like directing your attention on uh impacts it. Like, if you're like, I'm this is gonna heal my body, and you're saying that and you're telling yourself that, like your body's gonna like fix itself, right? Yeah, and and where medication and supplements and all these other things come in is to give it like extra um firepower to to be able to for the immune system to do what it naturally does. I mean, the body naturally heals itself, uh, like something like what is it, like the cells turn over every um, I don't know, seven months or like, or I don't know, I don't know what all depends on the cells, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Your skin's sloughing off all the time, your muscles is every three months. Every three months, every cell, every muscle cell you have uh has been replaced.

AI Native Workflows And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_01 42:07

That is insane. Like, so we're recruiting, like we're I mean, we're turning over all this stuff, and so to to to give the mitochondria the the ability to to do that, I think that there's other um you know mechanisms of action uh associated with it, but I mean, I don't know. I I I just know that uh this is gonna be huge and it is huge afield, and um, you know, I'm seeing kind of AI uh and kind of digital marketing and and all that are are people are being affected by it first. Like uh Chris, the last two agency owners that I interviewed, um, that are like power users of of AI, um, in like the the pre-interview, post-interview, like we've had some lengthy conversations even during the interview. Like, I'm seeing that these marketers are are are being empowered to step outside of marketing and help businesses and other kinds of operations because you you the AI is affecting everything, right? And it affected marketing first, maybe HR, legal review, but like to become like a a connected worker and understand how all these things work, that's the new next skill set that um is needing to be developed. And I think even when like people are getting interviewed, it's like, do you know? Like, I remember uh someone was joking with me that uh back in the day, uh you people put on their resume uh understanding of the world wide web. And that was that was actually like something that uh businesses were looking for and needed to understand. I feel like AI is the same way. Like, how AI native are you? Um, uh, do you understand how these systems work? Uh, how productive can you be? And it's not just understanding what it is, but it's understanding like how to apply it, how to use it. Um, and and I I just think that that's gonna be the next conversation. And I think that a lot of people that were impacted early by AI um uh are are gonna have uh such exponential opportunity because they they use it day in, day out. Because like when I get outside of this bubble that I'm in, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're certainly in the bubble. Um and you talk to people like how they're using AI, I'm they're like, oh well, like we put it in a spreadsheet and like oh, it came up with some numbers, or like, oh, we we used it to like help we use Copilot a lot to help us write email, or the best one is um, I'm using AI overviews, I'm using AI overviews, Google. So they're using they're using AI, and guess what? They're not wrong, they are using AI, but it's like that that image of uh the iceberg, you know, and and they're and they're touching the tip of the iceberg, and and um and I I just I don't know, I think that this is where uh everything's going. I I have been debating on changing the name quite a quite a while of the podcast. I just you know, I I I you know you start over when you do that and people can't find you. And uh I think uh we still have search volume for e e-web style, not as much. That tails uh that tail was quite long but shortened, but e web results people still do search for and we do have the domains redirected uh to EWR digital. Um and so, you know, I mean it it's hard when you're in a world that continues to shift and things keep changing, and things that were bad for you are now good for you, and thing, you know, like things uh online continue to change. And I think that we just really as humans uh live in a state of uh being able to adapt to a changing world, and that's like the only thing that's consistent is kind of the the jagged edge of unstability of where things are going and uh understanding your your place in that and uh how to trend transverse that landscape.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Yeah, I I think uh so I I listened to uh a podcast called Moonshots, which is a lot of AI get changed over to AI, and one day uh I'm driving to work and I'm like, and I've you know, we've got a successful company here, but part of me is like, should I stop everything I'm doing and focus on AI, right? Because they were, I don't know how frequently their episodes were coming out, but now it's two and sometimes three times a week because AI is changing so much and it's gonna be so impactful. Uh, and then my ultimate conclusion was no, I should use AI inside of my environment as much as possible. How do I leverage and multiply the productivity um so that we're you know we're we're generating more value uh faster? And so that's you know, I I'm not quitting what I'm doing. I love what I'm doing. Uh I'm utilizing AI for sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah, I've had that same battle uh because we're we're so heavily entrenched in AI. Um, I I think it's starting to be ubiquitous and and what we're doing and how we're doing things. And really, Moonshots tells you where everything's going and space and uh longevity, and they bring on different people. And it's really good to like understand the like 10-year like strategy, yeah. Um, and then walking it all the way back to like what we're talking about as far as like the implementation and the execution. And that's been the feedback, Chris, that I've gotten as like, and and we've been labeled as like an advanced uh SEO podcast or whatever, but I think really maybe uh getting re-categorized into the AI category because I I like a lot of these conversations and how they apply to business operations and how to think about governance and and all that sort of thing. And and marketing like certainly gets impacted by that, and that's like a big swath of who's going to be affected. Um, and I mean how brands present online and like what is their their reputation and how do you leverage all that is a huge surface area of of what AI covers because it's the spoken language. Um, you know, I see with like again multimodal uh AI coming out, um, the surface areas are are are certainly changing and um evolving. And I think people, and again, I need to get more on the YouTube on on kind of the implementation and and showing people how to do this stuff, but that's that's where I I think it's going is like the execution component. And I like highlighting different case studies. So when people reach out to me, and if you're listening, you want to come on the podcast and your agency owner, I'd love to hear how you're using it, how you're thinking about it, what are the mental models and the frameworks that you're using to put this all together? Because you have all these different uh siloed systems and trying to get them to connect. Um, and and like we're working on a new org chart right now, Chris, where we have two AI employees integrated on the work chart. And and what do we give them access to? And you know, what are their jobs and defining their duties? And like, I mean, that's an amalgamation of what we learned in EOS, uh, and agile and like so so I I just have like a hats off to marketers that I I think that sometimes they get put in in a category of like this, but to be able to do that, they have to know everything, especially SEO. You have to know everything, and so I I think that there's gonna be an elevation of people that understand how the algorithms work and programmers that can articulate this knowledge to executives are gonna be elevated into the room, into the boardroom, into the conversations because they're the ones that have the data, they're the ones that have the knowledge and the know-how to make this stuff happen. And and I think that there's gonna be a huge transformation of what it means to be an agency or a firm uh in the space and and how they work with businesses. And, you know, again, there's gonna be a tail on that as well. And there's gonna be a lot of people that that probably don't change fast enough, but the people that are listening to this podcast are the people that are making those changes and those steps. And you have to grow and you have to learn like anything else. And it's like almost taking like system thinking and and becoming like a programmer, like a programmer brain to take that into operations uh and marketing. And so there's there's so many different disciplines that that you have to learn uh to make it all fit together. Um for me, like I I I you know, I'm a little bit uh idea for you, and so I love it. Um, and then I have great people that I can take that and hand it to uh like Shantae or Jeff, and just like go put this together, operationalize it, train the team and and get it pushed out there. And we've been bringing on uh a number of new people. We've hired four people in the last month. Um, and and so uh there's a lot of great things we're doing over at EWR. I I don't promote it enough. Go go check it out. We are open to sponsors now. I didn't want to take on sponsors when I was going through the Goldman program, but um we are open to sponsors that align with like these core goals. Um, you know, like one of the one of the things we just landed on on the other podcast was uh actually from like a hiring uh standpoint, like a hiring grading standpoint, uh utilizing uh AI uh like a grader. Um but yeah, like I mean, there's so many different ways to look at this, but where I see everything going is kind of like a like a connected worker um that understands how to use all these tools. And that that maybe started in marketing, but but branches out into to a lot of other things. And uh, you know, Chris, I like I I'm sharing this for the first time with the audience, and you and I like have these great lunches and like we go deep in all these different ways, but I I really feel like this call is like coming full circle because I remember um when when I uh when you you like I was a consultant and you like hired me and and um and then I was like it was like three months in, I was like, I'm writing a book. Do you want to tell that story?

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Because I well, here's what I know about that story. At one point, I don't know if we'll call it a Tuesday. Matt's like, hey, uh, I'm writing a book. Uh you would you write the foreword to the book? Uh and I was like, Yeah, okay. In my head, it was like, yeah, you know, we got months, he's got to write a book. Like, I'm happy to do that. And then I think on Friday he was like, Yeah, I'm gonna need that for word because the book's already done. And like, we were in the middle of kind of a turnaround in NEWR. So in the middle of this turnaround, which is you know stressful and and lots of hours, um, he's also writing a book. So yeah, you're you you you tend to kind of go all in when you're uh you know, you when you set goals and then uh accomplish them really quickly. So it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Well, well, the the the book was was really just documenting the turnaround efforts for anybody that wants to read it. It's really like my story of like coming into this and seeing uh from my eyes like the inside of an agency and um what are the different components and how all those things work and documenting because I was learning so much. The only way I know how to like um remember everything that I learn is to like write it down on paper. And so I love to document stuff, and now I love to use AI to recall what I'm learning, and that's the big area uh for that we haven't talked about. And I am gonna bring on a buddy of mine that that's heavy and has a bunch of patents in this space is memory, okay. Memory, long-term perpetual memory to remember the right kind of things and like think about it. Like when we go to sleep, Chris, bringing it back to health. When we go to sleep, I believe like our brain is taking all the information we've learned and compressing it and processing it and then storing it into long-term memory from short-term memory. And that's why it's important to sleep to kind of process that session. And AI is not like exactly like a map of the brain, but it works pretty similar to how kids learn and processes learn with with all the different nodes of when you build an LM. Um, but remembering something uh and remembering the right thing and not remembering like like weighting the memory and the judgment, like how how to map all that um is is, I think, like the next big thing, right? And and I saw that even with Chat GBT four to five, which a lot of people were unhappy about because it it had perpetual memory and then it was turned off, and then people went to other models. But it's like it it gets fixated on one thing that you've been talking about recently because there's a decay in the memory, and it just um, you know, uh will focus on that thing completely. And then people say like AI gets obsessed with certain things, but it's it's about awaiting and a decay process. And and and again, it goes back to governance of how you use this stuff and how how you need to have different sessions and how you need to bring in the information and the recall, and like even if you're like training it like with different skills, like what skills supersede other skills. So if you're building a company, um, well, you know, if there's a standardized way of doing things and then you have a personalized way of doing things, the company weight maybe should supersede that in certain indices, unless you break that rule. Like, you got to think through all this stuff, but that's for another call, everybody. Hopefully, you've enjoyed this hour. I do have a hard stop and we gotta get going. But Chris, we'll definitely um have you back on.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Um I'll add one quick point uh on my podcast. So live beyond the norms. Uh, please go check it out. I interviewed Randall Cohen, uh, he is the founder of Carbon Copies uh organization. So their mission uh is to take the brain and stick it in silica. Uh and he's been doing like been working and focusing on this for a long time. Fascinating interview. Um, just had parallels with what you were were talking about, like kind of memory storage.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Well, Chris, I love our conversations and we we've talked about continuing uh those um beyond the the the buyout, and and and um I would love to keep having you back on the podcast to keep everybody updated because I think that there's a lot of like biohackers or like kind of like I've had nootropic companies reach out and sponsor the podcast. So, like I like optimizing our brains are are something that I think uh a lot of listeners have an interest in. I know I have an interest in. And every time I talk to you, you teach me something new, like I want to stay up to date with that. So I'd love to have you on as a um a recurring guest. I think uh the audience would enjoy that as well. Um, before we go, tell people like you are, I mean, if you just start to look for you know, uh ESS60 or My Vital C or search Chris Burst. I mean, he's all over the internet. Like you're you're I mean, you're blowing up, like really you're blowing up. Um, but how do people find you? How do they follow you? How do they find out more about this product that you know changes your brain and uh extends your longevity? Potentially, like, you know, no, like asterisk, like yeah, yeah, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Um, yeah, you can find me my vitals c as in carbon myvital c dot com. Uh the podcast is called Live Beyond the Norms. Uh, so you can find live beyond the norms.com, can subscribe with your favorite podcast app. Um, and then on social media, it's under my battle c and yeah, we're pushing out. I'm I'm you know, from the podcast, I'm pushing out six pieces of content per day. Uh, so once you kind of get in the envelope, uh, you'll see me a lot. Maybe you'll get tired of me. Uh, maybe you'll just give me a thumbs up, add a comment. I would love that. And uh, and yeah, so it's pretty easy to to to find me.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Well, Chris, I just want to thank you for our decade-long plus friendship uh and uh uh uh co uh uh uh employer, uh uh in like uh co-working, like all of the things. Um uh you've been a meaningful impact in my life, and uh I'm glad to be able to share share you and what you're doing with the audience. Um, thank you so much for being on. Um, for everybody out there, if you want to grow your business with the largest, most powerful tool on the planet, the internet, and now I say AI as well. Uh, reach out to EWR for more revenue in your business. Thank you so much for being on. Please shico us, Chris. Share, like, follow us. Uh, and until the next time, my name is Matt Bertram. Bye bye for now. Chris Furnes.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

Bye bye for now.