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NerdBrand Podcast
The NerdBrand Podcast is at the intersection of nerd culture, branding, and advertising. Nerd culture is no longer an isolated subculture; it’s THE culture of the day and makes its way into our daily lives through the entertainment we seek and the technology we rely upon. Listen as we discuss our views on visual design, branding, and advertising for movies, comics and novels, video games, technology, and other nerdy passions.
NerdBrand Podcast
Rebranding Revelations: When is a good time to rebrand?
What if the secret to revitalizing a tired brand lies in one legendary moment or a catchy tune? This episode promises insightful revelations as we humorously navigate the landscape of rebranding, unraveling marketing mishaps like the Wicked merchandise blunder. From the saturated universe of Star Wars to the strategic rebranding conundrums faced by Disney, we're dissecting why timing and innovation are crucial in keeping beloved franchises from becoming obsolete. Expect a lively chat about how even a classic like Star Wars might need a fresh coat of paint and how music, like Nirvana's grunge tones in Batman, can transform a brand's identity and emotional resonance.
Curious about how struggling brands orchestrate a comeback? We share the inspiring revitalization of Celsius energy drink, exploring the iterative nature of design and how brands like Pepsi and Mountain Dew continuously keep pace with the market. Our discussion highlights the power of sound as an emotional connector, outshining visuals in branding strategies. Discover the fine line between cultural relevance and market trends, revealing how iconic companies standardize their brand once the perfect message clicks and why the right soundtrack can be a game-changer in the rebranding saga.
Get a front-row seat to the ever-evolving saga of corporate partnerships and crises, where we unpack the unexpected endorsements that have shaped giants like McDonald's and the turbulent journeys of Subway and Budweiser. What's the role of crisis management in rebranding? Our episode concludes with the critical importance of expert PR guidance during stormy times, illustrating how patience and strategy can help reset a brand's image when public perception takes a hit. Engage with our conversation and strengthen your understanding of how brands thrive amidst competition and change.
ABOUT NERDBRAND
NerdBrand is a national branding and advertising agency based in Louisville, KY.
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You know, five minutes in, we haven't even opened the show yet, Haven't officially opened it. But here we go, Coming up on this episode of the NerdBrand Podcast. We're talking about when is it a good time to rebrand. Welcome to this episode of the Nerd Brand Podcast. We talk at length in the opener about public speaking, because we were asked a lot about that At least I was anyways and now we're going to talk about when's a good time to rebrand. I do want to mention let's talk about a brand. That's kind of funny. Yes, Movies will do merch, and merch is great because they make extra money on that.
Speaker 2:What's not great? Star Wars really put the flag in the ground for that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, years and years ago. But you know, when you don't do it right, what does it stand out? And this is something for things we should not. It stand out and, um, this is something for, uh, things we should not. I think it was. It's hollywood, babylon. It's one of my favorite segments when they do like things we should not see or should not be. And um, wicked, the movie wicked, um, a lot of the characters and figurines. They print it on the back. Go to wickedcom. No, don't go to wickedcom, it's a porn site and it's like wickedmoviecom. And I was just, I was just thinking to myself, I'm like man, that's definitely one that slipped by the proofreading yeah, and especially it's on a whole bunch of little dolls like go to little girls and kids and boys whatever they're gonna play with, and it's like they're like barbie style dogs, because it was mattel right, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:So you know, that's Barbie and Hot Wheels, right there, yeah yeah, yeah A little bit of boo-boo, yeah, packaging.
Speaker 1:Always proofread Proof your stuff before you publish it, because when it's out there it's like uh-oh. But you know, the thing about that is, though, that will become a collectible now.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it'll be worth a lot of money and I bet you whoever owns that website they're probably going to sell it in the next month if they're smart and what wickedcom. Yeah, that bet you whoever owns that site.
Speaker 1:They could probably make a bunch of money on it, because it's going to be on that side of the thing and or I think wickedcom has been around forever I mean they've been around since the nineties or something Cause something, because I mean they had like celebrity sex tapes and stuff like that on there I think, yeah, yeah. So it's like you know, back in the pam anderson days and oh yeah, pam and tony, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like I it's, it's an old time, it's like adam and eve you know, they had stores I don't think wicked had stores, but it's kind of like that. It's an old legacy brand for that? I didn't know that, yeah. So, uh, yeah, they're not going nowhere. If anything, they're just like thanks for the free advertisement, but not for that.
Speaker 2:They're like oh, we've got to put age restrictions on our website real quick and make sure those are going through, Otherwise they're going to get someone up their butt.
Speaker 1:A lot of brands. Disney, I think, is going to go through a rebrand soon. They're going to have to. They've been pivoting and they canceled a Star Wars movie. It was like a Raid movie about Rey. I don't know, we don't care about it anymore.
Speaker 2:But now they're doing the Darth Vader one.
Speaker 1:Are they? Yeah, I didn't hear that. It's basically from Darth Vader after the third what was that Revenge of the like third Darth? You mean Episode 3?
Speaker 2:Episode 3. After Episode 3, between that and A New Hope, it's going to be filling that time gap of what. Didn't we get that with Rogue One? So that follows the Alliance not, or the Rebels not. Yeah, it's pre-4, episode 4. Pre-44, but it's going to be following just the empire?
Speaker 1:yeah, so did you see the uh toy line for rogue one? It was really funny.
Speaker 2:It was a bunch of charcoal bits and it named all the characters because spoiler, they died at the end, right well, yeah, I mean well, if you've seen a new hope, you know that's what happened, because they're literally saying many bethans died doing this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like we kind of know how this ends. I don't know, man. I just I wish Disney would.
Speaker 2:just I don't know there's going to be a pivot, because Critical Drinker and the stuff that went on with that, I just don't know if Star Wars they're going to have to to first of all, stop making movies, live action adaptations out of their like every corner aspect is like, come on, you guys have like it's like mining for gold in a mine that people have been mining since 1949 yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of like going to those gold mines and pigeon forge and it's not really a gold mine, it's just an attraction, yeah it's kind of it kind of feels like that.
Speaker 2:it's like fool's gold at this point. Yeah, you guys already struck it. Sold it all out.
Speaker 1:You're good. Yeah, it's like remember that. Remember berries Remember that. Remember berries, Remember, remember remember, remember. Yeah, that's not something you want your brand to latch onto and start as a strategy for your product.
Speaker 2:So actually I know this is going to go off the side tale here, I'm sorry, it's just. This has been on my mind for a little bit. I saw a clip where someone actually from the rogue one movie with a one scene where actually vader is actually in when they're attacking to get the plans, they tied it up with a metallical song, um, the same one that's the beginning of zombie land, uh, I don't know the name of it, but basically they timed it up with him when he's basically attacking all the rebels with the lightsaber in the dark.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like so, Disney, if you're going to do another Star Wars film or actually any action movie or something like even like a John Wick sequel, whatever something along the lines there even another Deadpool Wolverine All you really have to do is show one clip, Don't show bits and pieces of the whole movie, because then you already know the whole movie, the whole plot point.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's what movies are doing too much of. Show me just one little clip of why I should watch it and the way they did that. In that little scene, someone just put the music, the right music, with it, the right little clip. It's a five-minute segment, not even, maybe even a minute. Good, get the moment across. Boom Done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I've always liked.
Speaker 1:I mean the thing like the Batman using Nirvana was a very good choice because the music has always been a staple of the brand. And then when they came out with this movie, it's like, okay, what are they going to do? And it's just a crescendo. That kind of builds up is what it is, that's what you remember. The rest of the music is just more or less sort of symphony type standard blah. In my opinion, there's nothing memorable about the beats, but when Nirvana comes in, you're like, okay, now I think of that, I think of Batman, I think of Gotham City. So music is so important for a brand when it's considering how it wants to project itself, especially if it wants to do a rebrand or refresh of itself. And you want to consider music, be very, very careful. Audio is as important as visuals.
Speaker 2:I feel like audio is. Actually it hits more emotionally because visually, people see so many things on a daily basis. It's easy for their mind to go like just scan over it. When you hear something like actually like listen to something like a music or song, you're tying that song to other emotions that people are feeling. Right, yeah, and then that's where that comes in. So like having that music, that rhythm, like even disney, the, like the over the castle, whatever, they.
Speaker 1:Well, everybody knows jurassic park, for example, when it starts playing. They know it. They just know, that's what it is um exactly. You know it took a while for avengers to get to that point.
Speaker 2:You know it was pretty forgettable up to a point until they started doing the marvel studios, and I think that's when they really leaned into it. Yeah, yeah, that was age of ultron around there, and yeah, civil war and age of ultron that was really when that hit yeah.
Speaker 1:So everybody kind of like, oh, that's the avenger thing. Um, anyways, when's a good time to rebrand number one? Declining performance, if you see less leads, fewer opportunities or your revenues declining, yeah. So yeah, you're not making money. I mean, that's something makes sense not to do. I mean.
Speaker 2:If you see less leads, fewer opportunities or your revenue is declining, yeah, so yeah, if you're not making money, I mean that's something that makes sense not to do. I mean, I know I was telling you about a company that did a good job with this and I usually drink their drinks Actually, it's Celsius energy drink and I've seen their posts multiple times, even on LinkedIn and Facebook, of being like, yeah, rebranding and brand image, it's all about getting the right tone and message sent on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because their whole thing is. They're a fit energy drink. They're not a super sugary drink. They're not meant to be like, you know, your monsters and Red Bulls. They want to be more of a healthy like. As you drink it, you're actually burning calories because your body's breaking them down. I'm not a nutritionist, but that's what the general idea of what's happening. And they went through three different bottle rebrands until they ended up with the one they have now and the one they have now. They make billions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, iterative design is a real thing and it's worth practicing. It's just something that you know when you don't, when you're trying to find your audience, when you're trying to find your way through your brand and when it what it is like. Yeah, it's okay to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But then when you land on it, standardize that and start, you know, getting everything else in sync online and offline.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then that's where you know yeah, you got the right brand and you go with that. Yeah, take that as long you can even say your big ones, even like Pepsi and Coke. How many rebrands have they done over the years? How many times? Very few.
Speaker 1:I mean well, pepsi. We've talked about Pepsi before with Mitch, our creative director, and some of the tweaks that they have done. Like Coke has actually done a few, but you'd really have to know color and really be a fanatic about it to notice the red change.
Speaker 2:But with Pepsi I think they just went through a rebrand. Actually yeah, because I mean they've had their. You can tell the different types of bottles. Even they do the throwback sugar Pepsi cans, which is a throwback style, and make of it. So even Mountain Dew is another one which obviously they're a Pepsi brand.
Speaker 1:Now of it. So even mountain dew is another one, which obviously their pepsi brand now like yeah, pepsi co is the conglomerate that owns all of that, including pepsi. Um, they released a new mountain dew as well.
Speaker 2:That was exclusive for uh kfc, kfc, yeah, it's a um uh, peach, sugar, no, honey peach, yeah, something really good, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm usually a fan of the orange one, the live wire and then live yeah, that comes out during the spring or summer months, so they have that shtick. That's pretty good. But you know, mountain dew is a brand that has gone through different iterations over the years. I mean because originally mountain dew is a slang term for moonshine and mountain dew was a um, it wasn't a drink, it was a mixer for for drinks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, originally now. Nowadays most people don't mix it um well, they still can, they can't I? Mean some people do. I do have one or two friends, they, they, uh, especially in college. Their thing was a uh, mountain Dew, yeah Dew vodka and like the Blue Raz or whatever Rook Code Red and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's something where Mountain Dew has definitely rebranded a lot of their stuff from being more of a family drink whatever to they almost cater exclusively to gamers.
Speaker 1:That is their whole brand. Well, it makes sense because of the high sugar content and caffeine Yep.
Speaker 2:And any 12 year old can buy Mountain Dew. Yeah, that's, there's no restriction on that. So my son was just pushing that and that's where they go. I mean that's, I mean it's, it's a smart rebrand and how they do that. I mean that's kind of they branded their image towards that because they're like, yeah, pepsi, the kids don't care, pepsi, coke, whatever, but well, that goes into our next point about targeting a new audience.
Speaker 1:I mean, when's it a good time to rebrand? Well, maybe you're trying to target a new audience and you have to change the brand to target that audience, to appeal to gamers, and that's kind of what they did. Yep, um, that's totally normal. I mean, if you know a specific base and you want to try to capture another one, a of tweaks and a rebrand, or refresh will do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, doritos is another one, that's another one that they really hit hard into gamers. They still like I mean, they're the big Super Bowl ad company, they're the one that always said hey, someone, come up with your own ad, send it in, we'll use it, whichever the winner is. And that's their whole audience. They want to. They cater to the creative side of people. They want that something a little cheesy or something a little corny or whatever, because they're cheesy, corny chips, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know, you kind of have to own what you are at some point. Yeah, uh, merger acquisition is the third one. So you need to communicate to your customers, employees, that they're fundamental difference in your company. So, um, we've talked, we've run across this before. I'm trying to think without naming the names, but there's been mergers and acquisitions where the company that bought, the company that got bought out, became the company that started dictating um, branding and marketing and right policy, instead of the other way around. You know, yeah, which is very odd.
Speaker 2:It is very odd, and I feel like they're still in that process of trying to understand. All right, how do we want to promote either one of these? Because they're competitors, actually, but they bought each other out, right, and so it's like a weird combination of the two.
Speaker 1:So they have a need for a rebrand because they the message is changing, they're trying to adopt a different message or they got away from their original intent and they need to go back to that. But they can't just turn that back on. They have to go back and consider how the changes have happened by bringing in this other company and brand.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I feel like that's also one of those things where they're they kind of tie into the last point of targeting their audience. They I feel like between the two, they both lost what audience is each one hitting, because one is definitely geared towards a certain type of audience and the other one's towards a one's more a teenager audience, while the other one's more a adult, 20-year-old, adult audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have families, moms and dads that have little ones, you have teenagers, you have there's these different demographics, but the two brands would attract separate ones for separate reasons. Even like single parents, they would go to one brand, not the other. So it's sort of this okay, what? What is working here and why is it working there? They both sell, they're both sell food, they both have a bar, but they have different rules when applying that in the, in the room or in the building. And then they both have event spaces, cause everybody's got an event space. I have an event space, it's my backyard.
Speaker 2:Um, it's actually pretty legit, you just backyard. Um, it's actually pretty legit, you just, uh, you got just to fix the deck with the hole in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, there's that. Well, the pool's fixed. It's just closed now, so the pool's fixed. The deck is the next thing to take care of. I know someone to help you yeah, I know a lot of people do. Yeah, I gotta get. There's some pieces inside the house too that I need to get fixed, but you know I put a pause on that when covet hit. And then you know, we had four years of Bidenomics. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That didn't help me to be sorry not to be political, but it's true. You know, when I look at my bank accounts, Anyhoos, increased competition needs to stand out, because you're falling into the noise, you know competition's coming. I mean, I watched a brand that pretty much owned a market and there was another one that was kind of adjacent to it. It wasn't really competition but within like two or three weeks I was being told about this place, this place, that place, and they were getting fired up all over the summer and I was like, well, tight as the season. Uh, you know, it happened right under their nose. And then I remember you can be out marketed with competition, like if you have a storefront and it's on the side of a busy road and right across that road's a billboard and the billboard gets taken by some other place to take people away from there to their geographic location.
Speaker 2:You have been out marketed, yep I mean, that's basically like someone posting up in your backyard yeah, that's kind of kind of what it is, yeah, and that's basically like someone posting up in your backyard yeah, that's kind of kind of what it is, yeah, and that's not. And that comes into something else we talked about in a previous episode just knowing your competition kind of thing, and understanding, yeah, what they're doing and getting to their mindset of why they would approach you, why they would want to be there or how they can attack you. And that's a simple understanding strategy and how to properly approach something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've always been fascinated with how corporations don't partner with one another. There's just some animosity from legacy, or there's some sort of perception that there's competition when there's really not. It's like, oh no, there's only so much money to go around. Well, for one project or deal maybe, but not in a specific.
Speaker 2:when you look at a market wide type, you know thing right um I mean that's actually something where burger king reason why them mcdonald's had such a big competition for a while there, especially in the 2000s. I thought was like when they really were going against each other yeah um, it's kind of died down a little bit more, at least in my opinion, between the two Um well, they bought Burger King, bought Popeye's. Hmm.
Speaker 1:And so, um, they've been pretty busy with, you know, dealing with those things and trying to bring things back. Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Because the Whopper stayed the same size but the cost went up and then the Whopper Jr got a little smaller.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would do it. Yeah, but what they did with Burger King is that, instead of being like where McDonald's, they put all the money towards the marketing and finding location and where to put stuff or where to plan it out.
Speaker 1:But you know right now they're just really mad because McDonald's is getting all kinds of free advertising with Trump on the plane, with everybody, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:RFK.
Speaker 1:Jr looked angry when he had McDonald's in front of him on the private jet. But everybody else that's sitting there. I thought just was hilarious and I'm like you know some executive at McDonald's in marketing is like can we use this photo?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, what was it during his presidency? What was it? The one team that won the Super Bowl? No, it was one of the sports teams, or the college basketball team that wins. Basically, they go and hang out with the president and he's supposed to buy him lunch, but he got them all McDonald's. Yeah, because it was at a height of something where he was trying to save money or something, or whatever the scenario was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he got a whole bunch of flack for it, so maybe he does know someone might he might, I think, he does I mean? He's not it's always been known that it's one of his favorites, but I just think it's funny that after the ufc fighter on their way to it, that's what they did they posed on the plane eating mcdonald's. It was him. Speaker of the House.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about a company that's done rebrands. Mcdonald's has done a whole bunch of rebrands.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. Even just by their names, people have called them the Golden Arches, mickey D's, mcdonald's, max, yeah, I mean, we haven't seen Ronald McDonald in a while, and there's a fascinating documentary about that on YouTube.
Speaker 2:It's probably a good thing, man. It's probably a good thing, man. Like I'm not gonna lie, I don't have a thing against clowns, but that clown was creepy man.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, point number five when's a good time to rebrand?
Speaker 2:when it's creepy uh, subway is another big one, for that as well well, yeah, that one is legitimate. Yeah, that was that was uh when your spokesperson uh has allegations come out to you?
Speaker 1:yeah, he's probably glad though that that's over with, because now you got p diddy in the news and oh yeah, he's probably so happy. Pity to you soon in the news. Yeah, he's like that's good, okay, finally, um, anyway, speaking of which, on topic of that, number five is a negative image. I mean you just made some poor choices in the public to your consumer. I mean they're just now against you because how you are.
Speaker 2:Association yeah's an association, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know Subway had to like depart from Jared.
Speaker 2:And then they got all the athletes, and then they got Michael Phelps, and then they had to go away from Michael Phelps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was just like you know. That's the problem with sponsors, you know, and celebrity sponsorships.
Speaker 2:It's toxic?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be very, very toxic and divisive. Right and divisive right, because you're dealing with a fan base you know, not customers, so it's it's a very uh risky thing, in my opinion, to to get a celebrity endorsement involved in something. Yeah, unless you're a major brand and you've done your work. I mean, it takes a big agency and a lot of people to kind of with millions to get it, to really get it tied together.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah and even then you can still screw it up because it's it's happened, you know where they've done that and it still went sideways. It worked out that way for many brands. We've podcasted about that before with Pepsi and ads that they they did that. You brought up that, you know, during the whole BLM riots and everything. And was it a Kardashian? It was given a cop, a quote, a Coke and or a Pepsi and it was like what are we doing? What are you doing?
Speaker 2:Right, oh, yeah, that's definitely. Yeah, pushed an envelope. I mean Budweiser or Bud Light. They had to do that when they went to their whole thing and they were trying to get political and on that side of things and that really blew up in their face. Yeah, I mean, they're like, oh, they're like hey, look a distraction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really funny.
Speaker 2:I mean, aliens are back in the news with the Congress again.
Speaker 1:I think there's something that'll come out of that, but it's just like you can always spot the distractions, but just yeah, you know you just consider a rebrand when the public perception hasn't gone your way. Maybe, that's, maybe take a seat back, be quiet for a bit, take an examination of everything and then rebrand and then come back out with that Because it works if done right. But you got to really take your time to plan it and listen to the audience that you have.
Speaker 2:So have you ever watched the show Always Sunny in Philadelphia? No, that show's right up your alley. It's all about sarcasm and like making fun of how dumb city scum people are. Like, um, basically, uh, but and one of the things danny devito's character has a whole bunch of shell corporations. That's why he's really rich, but he lives like a homeless man almost, uh. But one of his corporations basically got caught, a company called wolf cola, and basically he was basically selling cola to isis. He thought it was somewhere else, but it was. He just mixed up the names. You're like no, why are you selling to isis? Like what he's? Like.
Speaker 2:All right, well, we're on a 24 hour clock down to uh, make sure we get in front of this, all right. Well, actually, what they're doing is the wrong mentality. They need to wait 24 hours before they do anything because who knows what's going to happen or something else comes up. So they go on the show and everything and they end up just making it worse every time, like at the one point Dennis is like let me go in there, I'm going to be the male D, stand behind me. All right, they want a woman that can just stand behind her man. Just shut up and don't say anything.
Speaker 2:It's just going through a whole big old spiel and everything. And at one point he just goes and all of a sudden they bring a dog out from the earlier segment and he's like I don't like dogs, they're like what he's like? No, I hate dogs. Dogs are the worst. And he started yelling at the dogs and you just see all the captions being like who hates dogs? Like, what type of person is this Like? And he's just like oh nope. And then they go show the scenes like 24 hours again. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a. I remember when one of the worst moments was for BP, oh, and it was when the platform caught fire and then one of the reps came out. It was in England and he was in front of the press, and I don't think he'll be allowed to ever get in front of anybody from the media again, because he literally uttered the phrase the little people.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that is I mean, right there on the spot, everybody went Whoa, you know, like that. I mean he was called out immediately, it wasn't like later and um, yeah, so there's just certain people in your organization.
Speaker 2:You just don't when things are going bad, you don't want them yep, no, that's where, hey, you stay away from the mic, don't say anything, right? Uh, like, give it a day.
Speaker 1:That's why people hire pr companies because their crisis crisis management pr is not it's a, it's a thing. Crime man squad yeah, you need crisis management. You, things have gone really really bad, uh, but anyways, yeah, those are the reasons when it's a thing. Pride man squad yeah, you need crisis management, things have gone really really bad, but anyways, yeah, those are the reasons when it's a good time to rebrand, if you enjoyed this episode.
Speaker 1:Be sure you like, subscribe. Go find us on nervebrandagencycom slash podcast. Listen to the latest episodes and we hope you keep your nerve brand strong.
