NerdBrand Podcast

Brand At The Brink

• NerdBrand Agency • Season 1 • Episode 259

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SPEAKER_02:

Let's go. This episode of the Nerdbrand Podcast is brand at the brink. And uh yeah, iconic brands when they try to mar modernize the margin of error is slim. So uh this year we've seen a lot of uh branded entities refresh refreshed that sparked backlash, and so yeah, you you could probably read into what we're gonna talk about. We welcome Danielle to the show with us. Hello, hello, and uh let's get started.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, back, back, back. Oh good, Lord, Lord, Lord.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm like, oh dear. Okay, now it's alright. So I guess where to start, where to start. We all know we're gonna talk about Cracker Barrel because what in the world? That had to be like a psyop. I mean, there really had to be something there. I think they did it on purpose, um, just to get negative publicity.

SPEAKER_00:

One thing's for certain the Southern Bell and the Redneck in me really died when I saw the new logo.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, uh, we've talked about before how brands have got a little bit just I don't know, Mitch Mitch is a little bit more eloquent, but I'm more like they've gotten boring.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I get that like simplification has been one of those trends and one of those things, especially with like the advancement of promotional things and where you can put your logo. So like the simpler the better, but in the same token, you still have to have something that's unique. And if you've got something that works, you know, the old expression, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I um and theirs wasn't really broke.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, it really wasn't. And I think that, you know, to your point, you told a great, you know, we were conversing about this, that how it affected and reverberated to other businesses and industries.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And, you know, it's one of those things too that not only when you like from a marketing perspective, when cracker barrel changes their logo and things like that, but you also kind of look at, you know, and this is just across the board, not just cracker barrel, but how since COVID quality of goods has gone down, you know, food quality has kind of gone down. So, you know, I know God knows how many people who have said cracker barrel just doesn't taste as good as it did a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's really funny.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's just let's rebrand, but our food still sucks and service sucks.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So it's like, okay, you're gonna shift your brand to something that isn't really gonna be perceived well in addition to worsening quality stuff. So it's like, you know, let's keep the good thing going. And ironically enough, and I don't know if you're gonna keep this bit or not, but what was crazy to me is whenever we found out who the CEO was that initiated the change and initiated all of the um new branding stuff, come to find out that CEO was the CEO of Taco Bell in like 2020-2021. Whenever they simplify whenever they simplified their menu and like cut half their menu for better value bundles and combinations and better quality food. Their quality food has gone down the toilet too, and it costs just as much as any other fast food place now. So it's like, okay, I I can get a combo from McDonald's cheaper than Taco Bell. And and my favorite quesarito got taken off. So like, what the actual heck? So, you know, it's kind of ironic how, like, you know, the CEO for both of those, and you know, again, I get simplification, but you know, do better. Just do better if you're gonna simplify something, at least make it higher quality or something. Like, come on, y'all.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I um I feel like all of this started with Sydney Sweeney. Yeah, it's her fault.

SPEAKER_00:

You know what? Yep. I blame the influencers.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. But not in a bad way. I mean, you know, she pros and cons. Yeah. It's really funny how she was, you know, this. I I I never watched any of the episodes of um that series that she was in. She did a lot of nudity. And so, you know, people started looking at her, and it's really funny how conservatives and everybody's like, yeah, she's one of us, because you know, they exposed her voting registration and everything, you know. And I was like, um guys, this is a little I I get it, but let's just talk about the ad. First of all, it takes you back to that Americano type feel. You got a um Mustang, you've got a girl, a pretty girl in blue jeans, and um you got a play on words. I mean, when you just look at it like that as an ad, it's like, okay, that's I thought it was a good ad, frankly, in my opinion. And so when I heard about all the, you know, stu other stuff, and I was just like, what? I mean, that's really reaching.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, like some of the some of the like the reaches that they made on like the more political stance, and you know, obviously I can't use certain words here, so I think everybody knows what I'm implying and what I'm saying. Like some of that, I'm like, okay, that's a little bit of a stretch, but I do get that it's like, you know, you know, we have good genes and you're trying to do the G-E-N-E-S and J-E-A-N-S pun, like L O L, I get it. But there is a level of like, okay, we gotta look at our demographics and we gotta look at the world where we're at. And I feel like it would have been more successful if they had a range of different women, you know, whether it's different age groups or different um just different types of people instead of just, you know, your stereotypical white woman with blonde hair. I mean, I'm one to talk. I'm a I'm a white woman with brown hair, so yeah, I think but you know, like if it had some other other people in it, so everybody felt more like it's it was more relatable, and then you could kind of play off of that that jeans part without seeming like there was an implicit bias, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it went pol I don't think that when they did the ad that there was any sort of thought about that. I think they were like, okay, she's she's creating a product that she wants to advertise and then give money to charity, and that was probably the basis behind it. And then I think came the the theme of how the ad what we saw. And so I think that's why you didn't get a a you know, like, okay, let's see this type of woman, let's see this body type, let's see this gender. You know, I don't think that's why you didn't get that. Oh, yeah. Because that was never the trajectory. Um exactly. And and I think people miss that because they immediately want to go for the hate. And I think that that's sort of just an indicator of where we are. So now advertisers, you know, we're kind of back to where we have to look at the the ads. If you remember, Pepsi made a misstep about um the Kardashians and her giving uh a Coke or Pepsi to the police.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. That was in the Super Bowl a couple of years ago, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Right. So now we're back to this where we have to think about when we make an ad, are we who who on the fringe or on the edge or whomever are we going to offend? And you know, you start to walk on eggshells, and that's not fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And like it's one thing if you're like, okay, we gotta be blatantly obvious about certain things, but then other things, it's like, okay, that's a little bit of a stretch. And because of, you know, the idea that people can go viral online, it's so easy for one comment to then spiral a whole theory or something. Yeah, and I think that's how we got to the discussion.

SPEAKER_02:

I personally think that's how we got to Cracker Barrel.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's how we got to what we saw with Cracker Barrel.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's make a thing that's the most watered-down vanilla thing, non you know, offensive in the world. And um Uber fail because it went too far, the pendulum went the other way. Like nobody knows how to get in the middle anymore on the city.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And it is tricky because like the public is so easy to be one side or another. So it does make on the marketing side and for companies hard to find that middle because how often do you find the public finding that middle themselves?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I I'm I'm watching like on a website right now, um, an ad for Crown Royale. And it's like, you know, you got a bunch of dudes with their shirts off wearing aprons making a drink for a woman at the end of the table. So, okay, how do we what what do we do? Like, I'm all for it if there's gonna be an American Eagle ad with the dude for the ladies, like, you know, let the ladies have a little fun watching some I can.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, let's let's at least be explicit with our audience here.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I think there is an opportunity to still do that, and I think it'd be very smart if they did. Also, for people that um don't like Ford, throw a Chevy in there maybe this time, just saying.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, I mean in the whole Give me a Camaro. Yeah, and I mean fantasy romance, God knows how many different things you see on BookTalk and book and then uh what is it, Bookdogram, the Instagram version of it. Like, I mean, it's you can clearly tell when certain ads or certain themes and topics are geared toward one gender or one demographic for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

But when you look at a cracker barrel and you look at the front of the building and you think that logo, that new logo, was a good idea. I mean, McDonald's redesigned their buildings. There was somebody that made a, you know, when we posted about it, I posted about it on LinkedIn. I didn't this was before the cracker barrel thing blew up because I I looked at the logo and I was like, you gotta be kidding. So I tagged our creative director, Mitch, and I was like, Mitch, what do you think? And he's like, All right, you asked for it. So he went, he commented on my stuff, but then he went and posted on his own, and that just blew up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean he phrased it phenomenally. I actually ended up sharing his phone his post because I saw yours and then I saw Mitch's and I was like, okay, because I'm I'm a graphic designer, I definitely resonate with this more, so I'm gonna share it. So either way, y'all got the exposure. But you know, Mitch was on point.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he was on point, and you know, there was somebody that brought up, you know, what about McDonald's? And Mitch was like, yeah, they got a 30 years of brand equity on them. They can't compare it to Cracker Barrel, they they can't do that. I mean, McDonald's was in the 50s or 60s, early 60s or late 50s, and so you know, Cracker Barrel was in the mid-70s. I'm like you, they there's there's an obvious disconnect with knowing about leveraging brand equity. It's not like it's not we're not in the realm of marketing here, we're in the realm of brand.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And you know, you have to also look at I say the history of the company and of the brand, but like if you think about it, um, you know, Cracker Barrel, the whole premise of them was they were meant to be kind of like a store once you get off the interstates, yeah, and you can be a store and then a little restaurant to get something to eat and then you know eventually. Yeah, exactly. So then eventually it got to the point that you know the food was getting more popular and some of the more old school and quote unquote vintage stuff in their stores was selling. So they kind of pivoted away from a gas station because you know, every everyone and their mother has a gas station right across from each other, and there's always five within a block. Um, so they kind of went where they were being successful, and that in itself in and of itself is a great strategy move. Um so let's keep that part going. The whole point is it's supposed to be, you know, a home-cooked meal, it's supposed to be something comforting. You know, the inside, you know, is that old school farmhouse vibe, which, you know, I remember going in there with my grandparents before we would go to our family farm. Yes, I'm aware my family's redneck. We embrace it. But we would go to our family farm on weekends.

SPEAKER_02:

Know your audience.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And um, you know, we would go to Cracker Barrel because it was like a good halfway point and it was better than fast food. And, you know, it was it was very comforting vibe. Like, you know, it would remind me a lot of my my grandparents' house and stuff. And so whenever I saw that, not only did they like revamp their brand, but they changed the interior. I'm like that.

SPEAKER_02:

That was the gut punch because it was like you're used to sitting there while you're waiting for your food looking at all the weird stuff. And I guess they felt like that it was somebody's cluttered closet and they just had to clean it up. And I was just like, what is this sanitation of this? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's the nostalgia of it all, too. Like, I mean, if you're gonna have this store that has 70s and 80s toys and, you know, older vintage type um drinks and candies and things like that, you know, the restaurant having that same vibe is something comforting.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's an industry, like the people that decorate the inside of stores, that's an entire industry in and of itself.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

So the business that was lost from that when Cracker Barrel made the change. I mean, you brought up the fact of the peg game and what happened with that.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. Like I remember seeing that TikTok. So for context, um, the the family that owns the um company that makes the the peg game, um, apparently the founder of Cracker Barrel and that person who founded the company, you know, made an agreement, partnership, things like that. Um, and then once Cracker Barrel decided to do the rebrand, you know, they went back to that company who, may I add, is three-generation owned. So the granddaughter owns and runs it now. Um, they went to her and they were just like, hey, so we don't like the name of it, so you need to change it for us. I mean, if you want to keep promoting it as the peg game for you, cool. But for us, we're not gonna allow it. And she was like, Okay, well, I mean, what do you want to change it to? They wouldn't tell her, and then they were suggesting a bunch of other brand changes and things too, to the point that it was like, This is not this is too much. Like as a smaller business, even with a big contract like you all, we can't do that. So they ended up shutting down.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

And then whenever, you know, everything went viral, because she made a TikTok about it. Um, and then whenever that went viral and all the, you know, the discourse with the rebrand was going on. Um, last I heard, and I know this is probably a couple weeks old as of recording, but they you know, they had originally sold off a lot of their equipment, but I think either now they're buying back the equipment or Cracker Barrel is helping do something to help like restore the business because like they closed for about a week or two. And then Cracker Barrel came back and they're like, okay, let's let's reconsider, let's have a conversation. And so they're trying to rebuild their business back. Um, I'll have to look at an update after this podcast and see where it is now. But like, I mean, not only does it affect, you know, the nostalgia of things, but you also have to keep in mind that a lot of big corporations work with smaller businesses, they work with mom and pops on stuff. So it's like when you make a big change in a corporation, okay, cool, that's great. But there's a lot of other parties that get impacted, and from the marketing perspective, people don't consider it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we're we're kind of very much an end result society where we see where the chicken is in the bin at Walm at Kroger or whatever. We don't really think about like how it got there from the beginning, from you know, from the egg to you know, your table, and and it's sort of that's a problem. That's become a problem because um the supply chain when it got rocked in 2020. I mean, in in our world, people see a Facebook post, but they don't think about like how many people are holding that. The editor, the person that created it, the person that wrote the caption, the person that is going to post it and schedule it. I mean, these are all different jobs, and sometimes I think I get frustrated when people think it's one job because it's not. Running your social media yourself and running a business to me is suicidal for the business because you're going to be so wrapped up and so consumed. I mean, social media is a time suck. Don't believe me. If you have TikTok on your phone, open it and then let me know how you're doing next week because you probably forgot to shower. So you will fall away. And it's that way on YouTube. I mean, it's just the way we consume short form content now because it's everywhere. And I think it's business. We think that oh, people are gonna want to watch our stuff. No, they're not.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I'll tell you right now, from the social media perspective, I mean, I can go on a whole soapbox on this because that's what I do for my nine to five, is I work on the digital side of things. So, you know, I'm in charge of this company's social media, and you know, we're scheduling posts every day because we're trying to grow a following and trying to grow an algorithm. And so we're scheduling all these different types of content and posts, and you know, what I'm doing is helping and it's growing. I mean, I'm not trying to brag, it's all awareness. Well, it the the statistics show it. It's not that I'm bragging on myself, it's that the numbers don't lie.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you have to watch that. You have to really consider what is your goal in social media.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, like the numbers don't lie. It it what I'm doing is making an impact, and that's fantastic. But that being said, it's like I'm the one that's writing the caption, I'm the one that's filming a lot of the videos. I mean, yeah, we get content from the brands that we sell or that we work with, but I would say seven out of ten times I'm making the content.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So, like, yeah, sometimes that three out of ten, they'll send us something and be like, hey, here's here's this new product, promote it, here's a video for it. Okay, great. That makes my life easy.

SPEAKER_02:

But how how much time goes into you thinking about how to do that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you got to storyboard it out, you gotta plan out, okay, based on this week, here's what I'm doing. You gotta appease each algorithm, you know, a whole the whole thing about doing one video a week. And, you know, how do you work around that and making sure that one week isn't just all sales and promotion, but then another week isn't all just fluff and crazy. Like you got to balance everything out. There's there's a strategy to it that a lot of times either people don't realize and they just think, oh, content creation's easy, they don't realize that there's strategy, that there's steps, that there's caption, record the content, or take pictures, or edit um or specific content for specific channels. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

Or maybe your Instagram is doing something different than Facebook.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. So I mean, and it's one of those things that it's like it can be done, but it definitely is a lot. And if you're gonna put social media on one person, like that's all they should do. Granted, I'm a workaholic and a little bit, and uh using your term, I'm a unicorn, so I do more than just the social media, but I can tell you right now it gets exhausting after a while, especially when you're doing nine to five and freelancing. It's people do not realize the behind the scenes, like you said, they focus on the end result, which I mean I get it, that's the whole point. You're not gonna know the ins and outs of every industry that you get exposed to, but yeah, especially with media and social media, digital, you know, people don't consider the ins and outs, but they need to.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, there needs to be a consideration. I mean, I get it. I don't need to know how a car functions, and I don't need to know how any of that works. Um I just know that when I get in my car right now, I have to push a button to start it. But I'm from the area where we had keys and those were pretty freaking reliable. Yeah. And now they're gone. So then you sit in your car and you push a button and it doesn't start the car. You can I get a little pissed off because I'm like, um, but if I have a key, I can bypass that and get my car started because I'm now sitting inside a hot car trying to figure out how to start the damn thing, and all I have is a key fob, and it doesn't seem to want to connect to the car. So new is not always good. Exactly. Sometimes you just need to stick to what's reliable because uh in a broken record, if it ain't broke, yeah, fix it.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I have we don't have to revolutionize don't overthink it. Yeah, we don't have to overthink and revolutionize every single thing. Like sometimes it's just it's something is static. It's it works, it's reliable. You know, let's not change every single thing because there's already enough change going on and people are resistant to change. Yeah, nobody's keeping things let's keep things status quo and let's just keep people happy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, nobody wakes up in the morning and goes like, oh god, my basement is flooded. I wonder if this plumbing company shares my philosophy of life for me to hire them to fix my basement. No, they're like, oh my god, my basement's flooded. I don't feel like treading water. Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, what what plumber is available? Because I got to go with who can come to my house today.

SPEAKER_02:

Today, like right now. Like, yeah, fix the problem and that's it. And they're not gonna read through uh uh uh your we your website or look at your social media and then go like, oh well, that's really cute and cool. No, it's just fix the problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. They might later on if you're doing something explicitly. If it's optional, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but if you've got an emergency situation like that, no way.

SPEAKER_00:

And if there's something extreme, like you know what I'm talking about, I can't say it. But there's like if there's something extreme that they're promoting, then it's like, okay, maybe I shouldn't use them. But nine times out of ten, you're needing something fixed right then and there. You're looking for who's available.

SPEAKER_02:

I just need to get it done.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I just need it done.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And that's sort of the mentality that I think that we'll eventually start to get back to because I think a lot of people have gotten a little too far with like I, you know, branding is supposed to get you some kind of emotional attachment and all of that. That that is all still true, but it's all in my everything in moderation. Everything has to be balanced. I mean, your imagery, the consistency, the heritage of the brand, all the key elements, whether if it's the mascot, if it's a logo, if it's typography, these all things work together. It's not like, oh, let's only focus on, and that's the problem I kind of have sometimes is like everybody just focuses on the one thing, and I'm like, you're leaving out 70 others that you're not to worry about, we are to worry about. But you need to understand that you're paying for all of that, not just the one.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that that's a big struggle with agencies and with people that do what we do is that our customers tend to think that, oh, I'm just getting a logo. No, the science that went behind that is actually there, the research, how people would respond to the logo. You know, we did a logo for somebody, and Mitch has like he had four or five versions, and he wrote a synopsis of why he came to that conclusion to design the logo that way for each one. And he went through that presentation with the customer, and it helped them understand why they were looking at what they were looking at.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

Because there were three that did not fit, and as they were sitting there, and this happens all the time, right? People think of crap that they didn't tell you before. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention that this happened and then this and this and this. And if we've only had five meetings, I guarantee you, in fifty meetings, we're still gonna have somebody show up and say, like, yeah, but what about?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And so it really kind of cleared the air ahead of time in that way. And there's a way that we do that. I mean, we never plop something down and say, like, what do y'all think? We never do ever, ever do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. There's a method and there's a reason, and you know, especially with visual, like people tend to come up with more of those, oh yeah, moments when they see something. I mean, that's more more likely when it happens, and not just as I'm doing it or as I'm hearing it, it's as I see it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and we were working on a product for a brand. We weren't working on the main brand, it was a product the brand was selling. So we were branding that and uh working on its identity, and so that's that's the other thing. So, but yeah, I mean HBO Max went to they went to Max, now they're back to HBO Max because guess what? HBO has a lot of brand equity, go figure. You don't have something that starts from the 1980s and is at the forefront of visual effects. Do you remember that old opening that HBO had?

SPEAKER_00:

I do.

SPEAKER_02:

That's the beginning of After Effects in Adobe, really. You don't go that far back with something and just get rid of that name and then go like, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we're gonna simplify it and make it new and make it exciting, and then people don't recognize it. And then they're like, Well, what am I even paying for?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. So there's that. Um, that leads to stakeholders getting involved now and their expectations of things, and then now your strategy is not aligned with the messaging at all, and that creates problems. And then marketing's sitting over there going, like, but I gotta post this to social media today, and you're like, Yeah, but the message isn't matching what we're doing anymore. So now everything is all twisted up and somebody's yelling somewhere.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So, anyways, uh legacy audits kind of help. So, you know, if you're gonna consider a logo update, we're gonna go through a couple things real quick on this table. Audit legacy, catalog all the existing identity touch points, your logo, your mascot, the decor, topography, and their meaning to stakeholders. Why it matters? It ensures you don't accidentally throw out what people love.

SPEAKER_00:

If people like the barrel and the logo, then keep the darn barrel. Or Uncle Herschel. Yeah, or Uncle Herschel, yeah, exactly. I mean, your name is Cracker Barrel, you keep the barrel in the logo. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02:

People were even joking, like you keep the cracker too.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Exactly. It's in the name. Keep both of the things.

SPEAKER_02:

So define core values and the differentiators. What is non-negotiable, what needs to remain, what can evolve, why? Because it provides guardrails and prevents drift. That's very important what we've been talking about. Drift happens in brand. It's just a thing where everybody just kind of goes, oh no, no, no, no, you need to come back over here.

SPEAKER_00:

And I get that, like, sorry to interject, but like I get that as times change, you have to pivot. And sometimes with that, there is a new look. Like, I mean, go back to COVID. Everyone had to pivot and everybody had to have a new strategy and a new look. Sometimes it's just, okay, that's that's the nature of the times. Right. But it doesn't always have to be we have to have the newest, we got to change everything, we got to do this to stand out. Keep the brand equity and keep what you're doing because you're more likely to be successful when you're recognizable.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you have to keep keep consistency.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm going on so many side tangents, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02:

It's all relevant. We'll let the robot figure out how it works. Anyways, if you've enjoyed this episode of the Nerdbrand Podcast, go to NerdbrandAgency.com slash podcast and you can listen to some other episodes. Sign up for a newsletter when a new podcast comes out. We do have that. You can go and like and subscribe and do all the things on our social medias. Just search for the handle at NerdbrandAgency and uh keep your nerd brand strong.

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Jason Davis

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