NerdBrand Podcast

Lead, Prospect, Sale: Know the Difference

• NerdBrand Agency • Season 1 • Episode 260

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SPEAKER_00:

But there's a lot of people that are in the room that are seeking business advice. They're seeking advice for sales. And that's how we're going to start this podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Excellent segue.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So here we go on this episode of the Nerdbrand Podcast. We're going to discuss, we're going to discuss sales. Um, when is it really a sale? And um, we really do need to have this conversation, I feel like, again, because I do know that everybody out there is looking for leads, they're looking for sales, they're looking for this, but we need to start defining these a little better because I'm noticing everybody has a different definition for all of this. So let's go. Let's talk about this. Let's do it. So let's start out with the definition problem. Too many folks in business confuse leads with sales. A lead is not a sale. A lead is interest, a sale is cash in hand.

unknown:

Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

And I'll even go one further. Leads are not prospects. You know, prospect is a more defined, you've had the first interaction, you have an idea of the specific needs. Leads are, hey, I'm interested in you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You don't really know what problem you're solving. Prospects, you do, and you're working toward that solution. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Funny thing is, after you do three episodes in a studio with uh with Danielle, um, she starts taking off clothes. I don't know. She's fully clothed, but listen, if we're recording-sweater has has disappeared. I mean, she's covered, she's clothed, she's not naked, but the sweater's disappeared, a shirt has disappeared, and I'm starting to wonder if my air conditioner needs to be addressed.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, look, okay, here's the philosophy. What's going on? If we are recording more than one episode and we're gonna have video.

SPEAKER_00:

There is video of this, by the way. So there's proof. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

Like there, if we're gonna have video and we're gonna have clips, then you know, we don't want to have we want to make sure things look different. So then when we promote it week after week, there's a little bit of a difference. So a different shirt. So yeah, no, I've packed a sweatshirt and then I have a t-shirt, and then I had a crop top underneath. So there we go.

SPEAKER_00:

It's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02:

You know what? There's a method to this madness, all right?

SPEAKER_00:

I do believe you, I believe I just kind of let you do you. I really do. And I know that I don't need to get in the way.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and the best part is is like you know me long enough that you're like, okay, she's a little crazy. I get it. But then once you see the work and once you see what I've done, you're like, okay, yep, no, yeah, okay, yeah, no, she was right. It looks good. I get it.

SPEAKER_00:

I see it now.

SPEAKER_02:

I see it now. I might not understand it, but I see it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and that's kind of what I did. I just kind of let it go. It's like, all right.

SPEAKER_02:

You've learned to just let me do me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. Um, anyways, you don't really have uh a deal. Uh so there is a difference, and and to kind of like uh at a thousand-foot scale is like there is a difference between a contact and a deal. Uh, and there are two different funnels. There's a contact funnel and then there's a deal funnel. And you told me to share this. When somebody walks into Walmart, that is not a prospect. That is not even a deal, it's not a lead, it's nothing. It is a person that's browsing. And then you have the prospect until they grab a cart, they are now a prospect. They become fully a lead when the moment they start to commit and go through the checkout, and then it's a sale when stuff's in the bag and they're going to their car.

unknown:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

So if you're not following that on retail and you're trying to apply that to a business you own with a service, there's your disconnect. Absolutely. Stop looking for sales, stop looking for leads, look for contacts, look for people that know people, or that person may be that person that becomes a sale.

SPEAKER_02:

But if you're gonna look for leads, look for prospects.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're starting at the wrong end of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Don't just search for anyone and everyone because you're not gonna be able to serve anyone and everyone and solve everyone's problems. Look for prospects, look for the person who they've got the shopping cart and they're browsing, they know they're looking for milk, so they're going to the dairy aisle.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've had people come six months later or even a year later to me and say, hey, Jason, I want to do this project with you. Can you guys help out? Yeah. They didn't, it took a year. Like it takes a long game to do what we're doing, but we're a different business model animal. So, what is your business model? What does that look like? You have to start a little bit with that. So the corporate truth is pipelines don't pay bills, purchase orders do.

SPEAKER_02:

Not to mention, too, I'm gonna also mention this depending on the industry, uh the people you meet, it's always worth networking. They you might they might not have a need right then and there, but like you said, six months later to a year, they do. Yeah. So, like, you know, yeah, they might not. I'm gonna pick on nerd brand because I can. Um, they might not have a need for nerd brand when you meet them. But then six months later, when they're like, hey, we need to do a new website or we need to revamp some stuff, now you do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, we've reworked copy on a website before, and um, they're like, Man, that I like how that sounds and how that reads. And I'm like, yeah, because professional wrote it. But then also, let's watch how Google responds. And then they're like, I didn't know I was getting SEO. And I'm like, if you're messing with us, we're looking at it holistically. So the copy and the professional photography, Google's gonna look at that and go, like, I like what I see because I know that's different. It's not AI generated, it's not stock, it's not this, it's not BS. It's it makes a difference and it can change a brand, but it's not gonna happen if I start on a Monday, it's not gonna happen by Friday.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's the the other thing we gotta get past.

SPEAKER_02:

But otherwise, that's you gotta look at it from like a 30-day, 60-day, 90-day period.

SPEAKER_00:

Usually about a 90-day period is gonna what's gonna be minimum to gather enough data to kind of see how somebody responds to an ad you just threw out there.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, six months is really going to be your marker for actually seeing if it's gonna work and if remarketing kicks in on the paid ad channel side.

SPEAKER_02:

But I've enough data to know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the data, it's always the data, but it's how how the data is used and how long it takes, and that's usually where people kind of don't have the patience. And that's why I think everybody wants a sale, everybody wants a lead, but these things are not binary, and we need to start disentangling all of these things because in a contact, you could have a contact that becomes a um a prospect. Like an initial contact, you can call them a subscriber, you can call them, I just know the bank, I just met the person, whatever you want to call it. That that's that's subjective. But objectively, it's like they become a prospect when you start to identify that there's something that they're looking for to get fixed that maybe you can help with. Right. They become a full-on lead when that interest grows in you fixing that problem. So the first thing that happens when you start to get to that point and they become a lead, you should be asking, like, are you ready for a proposal? So your first meeting is, okay, let's do a discovery meeting.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, even if it's just getting to know you, sometimes it's not even But it's not a one-to-one.

SPEAKER_00:

I want to emphasize that.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh no, for sure. It's more or less like I hate one-to-ones. You and me both. I'll work my way to a one-to-one, but if it's the first way I meet you, it's just so intimidating. Yeah. But um, but like, yeah, like you said, discovery, but it's also the getting to know. Like, I gotta learn about you before I can figure out how to solve your problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and then once you gotta tell me things.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And then once I figure it out, then I can start. Okay, now here's some ideas. Here now the wheels are turning.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, a lot of times people will say, I want to do this, I want to do that. Okay, cool. Well, why don't we schedule a meeting to initial discovery meeting and then let's let's reconvene on that. You want to do that? Cool. Okay, now they're a prospect. So I'm like, okay, so I'm prospecting them still because I gotta go to the internets and I gotta go research their stuff and see if what is out there aligns with what they're thinking and what they're what they think they are seeing, and nine times out of ten, it's not. Like I sit in front of people all the time and I Google them, and then their reaction to it is like I didn't know that was there. And I was like, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02:

So dangers of online when you post it or if you do something, it's always there.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I had one meeting where somebody, I Googled their names, and it's just a branded search, is what we call it, right? And so I Google the brand and then they looked at it and they're like, Well, that's why I'm getting phone calls about all this and that. And I was like, Yes. Sorry, you're not the only one named blankety blank that's out there. And then, you know, so that's that. And so that initial discovery was there. So then from there, we could say, like, okay, let's have a second meeting. Do you want me to develop a proposal for you on how we can fix this perception or how we can pivot that? That's an invalid question to ask in that initial meeting. If they say yes, now you got a darn opportunity, you can jump and leapfrog from prospect lead to opportunity in that moment. If they say, Yeah, I'd like to see what this looks like and a cost, and make sure you emphasize I'm going, this is a transaction.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

This is not a feel-good moment where we do a one-to-one and get to know one another and do all that. We are getting to know one another. This is a transaction. So um, if that's the case, you go ahead and you give them a proposal and then you go over that and then you see if that aligns with what they initially thought and approached you for. And maybe you have to go back and do another one because maybe something wasn't in alignment. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But you can't keep that cycle going. Right. So um, I think that that that all happens, and that is not a sale.

SPEAKER_02:

Nope. Believe me, if if that was, then I'd be making a heck of a lot more money than I am. And you would too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, a contact is gonna go through, depending on how you have your funnel set up, you're gonna have a the the the prospect, you're gonna have lead, and then you're gonna have opportunity. By the time you hit opportunity, now you have a deal. So then you go through the deal stage because you have different stages. You have different funnels. You have one for contacts, one for deals. The first deal stage is that initial meeting. Hopefully, you have clarified in the contact stage that we are going to now approach a transaction, right? You're in agreement that we're gonna I'm gonna give you a document, it's gonna have a price on it, it's gonna have the details of what you asked me for for you to either sign at that moment or whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

If it doesn't align, then you have a second meeting. And then the third meeting, hopefully you have either in the second or third meeting and that span, you can have a signature. Yeah. Once you get that ink, sale closed, you won. That's it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, that's hard to do.

SPEAKER_02:

And um especially in today's world because everything is so gosh darn expensive.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. But I wish people would stop asking for leads because they don't know you. It's not a lead. They may know somebody that needs what you know, but they just don't know you unless they specifically reach out to you and say, This is what I need and what it looks like you can now it's a lead. Right. That's when it's a lead. And that can happen on your website on a contact form. That's just my perspective from seeing this over the last 10, 20 years.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, it's good to have it so that way if people aren't sure how to contact you, or if people are like you and me, where it's like, hey, I'd rather just type out a form. Yeah. Just have written communication versus having to deal with people, then great, that's an option. But like, you know, you can't just take that as gospel as like, oh, it's a written question, it's a written thing. Yeah. That means it's gonna happen now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, I get contacts because of the service-based. If you're a service-based in uh business, you may get a contact and they're asking quite they don't they don't know. They're still kind of trying to figure out if you can solve their problem. So you still have various different funnels to go through, but you have to have something set up so that you can start to regulate and qualify people that will frankly waste your time. Um and they don't may they may not mean to, right? But it is a distraction that can take away opportunity for you to make money.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And if anything, you know, on the moments that hey, like you just said, they might not realize that it's not gonna work out, that's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because if maybe it's a referral, maybe I'm like, uh, maybe you need this person, not me.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, that, and then also it can just be, hey, this doesn't align. So then you're not wasting your time with something that isn't aligning. Like if you if you figure it out pretty quick, then it's like, okay, cool. Not in our sector where you're doing your thing, I'm doing mine, cool. And you can kind of cut it there and then focus on prospects and focus on clients versus just like putting all your time and energy into leads. Yes, it's important, but you have to be able to balance that energy.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's like uh empty-handed selling. Um you can't sell vapor, people see right through it, right? So the customers they want proof or and even customers become they can fall back into account-based sales, and which is really good, and that can actually support your business. But you know, you have to establish customer base, obviously, first for that, which is coveted by everybody, but that takes time, it can take years. Um, but they still want proof. So you still have to provide examples and case studies and real product service that they can touch, test, and try and feel. It just it is just that way. Um, you know, I've I've got somebody right now that's going down the path of rebranding, and um it's gotta be they they really can't see it. They're a visual person, and that's fair. Um, they work in an industry that's very visual, but I can't show them the visuals right now because once we do, they'll start to realize, oh, this is what this is. We're not redoing the logo, we're not touching the logo. There's too many shirts and and and signage, and and that's expensive. So, what can we do?

SPEAKER_02:

Not to mention you want to stay recognizable.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. We and that's recognizable, so we're not touching that. There's other things that are changing. And so um, Walmart just did this. You know, they still have the same logo, but they've tweaked the font, they've tweaked the logo, and then they have a sub brand called Walmart Plus they just rolled out. And so there's little things like that that may happen, and so you can't really communicate that across a conference table until it's done, and then you can kind of walk through that, but there has to be a commitment to go down that path to want to do that. And and for us, that's where we have to ask the business um, you know, is this gonna be a dead end? Is it is this gonna work? You know, are you committed to do you kind of understand that we're gonna go through this?

SPEAKER_01:

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you can't sell empty-handed. You've you've got to provide some examples so that they can kind of get an idea.

SPEAKER_02:

Right exactly. And especially and that's especially relevant. And you mentioned it, but in service places, I mean, like, yeah, if you make shirts and you make things, you can bring it to the table, like you know, if you would do a promotional, here's an item, here's a sample. You know, with service, you have to have a really solid portfolio. You know, if you're if you're a graphic designer, you gotta have here's examples of my work. Here are companies that I've worked with and get the approval of, hey, can I slap your logo on my website? Which by the way, can I slap your logo on my website? But you know, you gotta be able to do that. Um, and have the backing of I work with people. And you know, even if what they want is different than what you've done before, you at least have to show that potential. You know, you might you might have built, you know, I'm gonna use um I don't know, I'm trying to think of a decent example. Uh you can, you know, renovate kitchens, yeah, but the moment you're like somebody goes in is like, hey, so like you can renovate kitchens. Do you do bathrooms? And you know, if you can and you want to go down that route, cool. But you have to have here's what I've done with kitchens, and here's how I can spin that into a bathroom.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but to your point of a portfolio, it's social proof.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

It really is.

SPEAKER_02:

It really is. You gotta establish credibility and legitimacy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, show off you can use there was uh you and I were going back and forth about doing something for free and to get established. I think for freelancers they gotta adopt that more. I think I mean we may disagree with this, but when you're starting out, nobody knows who you are. They don't know if you're any good.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it's a fine line. I think it's one of those things, and it's probably also because of how do I phrase it? Um, I think it's partially because of my experiences as an early professional. Um, there were a lot of times where I would get thrown into situations that, well, I'm I'm the greener employee. This is what you have to do. I can't fight it, otherwise, you know, it's not gonna look good on me, or I might lose my job. So, okay, I'm gonna do it. And then hindsight being 2020, it's like, okay, yeah, no, that wasn't my responsibility. I did it and it turned out great, but like I should have gotten paid more, or I should have advocated for this and that. That's how it's scope creep almost because it's like it's you gotta find that fine line as a freelancer of okay, yeah, I'm willing to go a little bit extra for the sake of getting my name out there, for the sake of the portfolio. But you have to be so careful and emphasize that, hey, this is this is for this. And you know, if you you know, I would appreciate you spreading my name out there, but you know, don't go telling people, oh, she's gonna do this, this, this, and this, because this is a special scenario for you. So then that way, if a referral one to two years later comes down the line, they're not expecting you to do exactly what you did when you were starting out. Because at that point, it's like, okay, you do have some experience and there is a level of charge reasonably, but also charge what you're worth. Well, so it's in the right. And that's why I say that's why I say it's a fine balance because I completely agree. You gotta start somewhere, you gotta do a free internship, you've got to, you know, you might not be able to charge what you want, but it's a sake of starting out, you gotta do a free project or a wholesale cost project. Yeah, you gotta do it to get out there because there's so many out there. It's just that fine line of, and that's where I'm where my emphasis is is just make sure that you're not getting taken advantage of. Because I think that when a free I've been taken advantage of a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and that that happens when you're dealing directly with a business. As an agency, we can kind of insulate our contractors.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, an example of that is if I hire a graphic designer and I need um Hi, how are you? Hey. If I need Google Ads made, okay, there is a brand guide, there is a look. I have a creative director. He's gonna get very involved in what your ads are gonna look like, and he's gonna not be this person that's like, oh, move it two pixels to the left. He ain't that kind of he's not that kind of creative director.

SPEAKER_02:

I love Mitch.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah, he's amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

Shout out to Mitch.

SPEAKER_00:

He'll come in and he'll say, like, uh, I don't know about that button there. Um, you know, maybe we don't have it say that. Maybe we say something other than submit. Like, he's kind of a little different now what he does, but he knows what he's doing. Yeah, it's all about for him. He's looking at proportions, he's looking at, you know, the composition of the thing.

SPEAKER_02:

There's a difference between criticism and judgment. He criticizes, he doesn't judge.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so he comes in and it's like he understands this ad's got to convert, and then I have to present the ad to the client, and the client's got to approve it. And if they don't like what they see, there's a problem. Meantime, as a designer that I've never worked with before, you want me to pay you$500 to do a set of Google ads. I can't do that because I don't know what you're gonna give me. I know you have examples of previous ads that you've done and they look pretty, but we say this for a reason, and pretty is easy, smart is hard.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

So we need to know did they work?

SPEAKER_02:

And exactly, and that's a different scenario where it's like, okay, when you're starting out because I'll pay you if you suck.

SPEAKER_00:

That's fine. I mean, I gotta do something to learn.

SPEAKER_02:

It might just not be a reoccurring. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

I may not have you do it the next time, I may have you do something else. I'm going through that kind of now, but it's just like I gotta know can you do that? Can Mitch work with you? Can that can that get fixed? Can you not? I mean, you kind of did it with some ads that we needed or social posts that we needed. You kind of got a little creative with the placement of of the text on the image, and I knew right away the client would be like, WTF is that right, and I would have had him my butt off where it and I was like, I yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Here's what we did in the past, this is what they like. Yeah, I don't want to deviate because it just makes problems.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And when you're a freelancer, sometimes you don't always have that context. So it's just a matter of here and it it's draft. Yeah, here's the first draft.

SPEAKER_00:

And Mitch will do that. He'll be like, mm-mm, no.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, and and that's totally fair. I mean, as a freelancer, and especially if you're in the design realm, nothing you make is gonna always be first go-around. I always go in expecting there to be a bunch of a bunch of changes that need to be made.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And especially when I'm being freelanced out for stuff, because I'm not the one that's working with the client. I don't have the context of this is what they want. I have examples, but there might be things that I'm like, oh, we might need to switch this different. And sometimes it's like, okay, this is a different thing, so that works. And then other times it's like, no, we need it to be carbon copy, just swap out the picture. Yeah. All right, 10-4, got it. Yeah, they have this, yeah. And the only way to know like that, yeah. And the only way to really know is number one, to have that relationship and be open to that communication, but then also not to take that stuff personally. I never take if it's judgment and it's you know, you can tell it's with negative intent, I'll get I'll get a little hurt. But like if you're just being critical and you're just like, the client's not gonna like that.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that change it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_00:

But usually I usually tell you why.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean if I have the time, like I'm not a creative director. This is why I pay Mitch to do what Mitch does.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and Mitch will even tell me why later. It's one of those things that you might I might not know why now, but I'll eventually find out later. And God forbid, if I ever didn't find out, I don't care. I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00:

But that thing that you did, um, either way, that color scheme and how it's laid out, that's what people like to click on too. Right. We know that for a fact from metrics.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. There's gonna be different perspectives because like you're gonna see certain things, I'm gonna see certain things. So it's kind of finding that happy medium when the worlds collide.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. It's the colors and what you did with it and everything else. That that's that's the the proof of that. And so, yeah, but yeah, it's one of those things where it's like I can't really talk about the story, but I met a young entrepreneur and he had a great idea, and I thought, well, maybe go do this and but do it for free. But because of the brand that I recommended to do it for, they have multiple locations, it would be high exposure, it would be a great case study, and it could attract the next one like it, which is really what you want. And now you're getting paid. So that's a loss leader in a massive way, but it is something that uh young entrepreneurs need to consider when starting out because exactly no, you got to show people what you can do, and if you can't, no one's gonna hire you. So if you're out there and you're listening to this episode and you're like, wait a minute, I'm gonna go to Lost and Found and see if something has Nerdbrand on it, please let me know because it's probably my fault that it's there and we forgot it. Um, because that happened, I guarantee it, at least at some event venues that we've been to. Um, you know, and and that's something that's um, you know, we've got we've had brochures made, we've had other things done. Those are a little bit more expensive, but at the end of the day, you know, you kind of have to you want to the giveaways are always a struggle to figure out what to do.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and you can't just hand out promotional swag. You have to also have like the what's the word I want to look for? The professional stuff to go with it. Like you can't just hand out if you're at a a booth, you can't just hand out the sunglasses and call it good. You gotta have the brochure that goes with it because you gotta have something that establishes who you are, what you do. Even if it's like I mean with realtors, they hand out promotional stuff at all their open houses all the time. You always see a business card. Yeah, you gotta have some of those things. Otherwise, it's just like, okay, now we're just handing out things with no strategy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. And if you've listened this long on this episode, we appreciate it. Um, we do have this is a long one. Yeah, it's a long one. So we have uh we do have a Patreon, and um, you know, we will figure out probably in the future like how do we do that to make money. Uh monetized channels are always good for revenue. So we are looking at that now, and we've been offered some uh monetization on a couple of our channels already by networks, and so I'm reading through that to make sure that you know it's not a giveaway of our identity and property because that can happen.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so uh yeah, yeah, yeah. There's uh there's a lot of that that could go on. Uh, there's a famous comedian, won't say his name, but happen to him. Dave Chappelle. Anyhow.

unknown:

Chappelle.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Uh so yeah. Anyways, if you enjoyed this episode, go to NerdbrandAgency.com and slash podcast, and you know, uh follow, see some more episodes. Tell us what you think, drop us a line on Facebooks, and we'll see you next week. Keep your nerdbrand strong.

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Jason Davis

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