Marketing and Brand Messaging with Leah Williams

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to this episode of the Nerdbrand Podcast, where we have a director of marketing at Nerdbrand. And guess what her name is?

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Hello, everybody. My name's Leah.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Um that's about I gave her no script, nothing to prepare for. I just threw it into the deep end of the pool. There you go. Uh yeah, really. And so you've been with Nerdbrand for oh God.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

I believe it's like ten months now.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

That's where people have no idea about you. Like they just and nobody ever reads a website. It's like you've been on the website for that long. I mean, we got a photo of you getting a coffee from God knows when. Because we do need to do a photo shoot. I need to get the boys to fire up their cameras. Um, but yeah, she's been with us for a bit. So marketing, marketing, marketing, all that stuff. That's what she does. I because I cannot keep up anymore. Um, I'm on the business side, sales side, project management, and uh web development. And uh, I'm going back to that corner because that's where I belong. So you have the reins on stuff. So Leah tells me what to do when it comes to marketing.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

I look forward to it. I have a great time.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, all the creatives. Yeah, pay all that money for a degree, go use it. Congratulations. Um, but yeah, so that's who she is. So now you all have have met her. Anyways, welcome back to the Nerdbrand Podcast, everybody. I'm here with our marketing director, Leah, and we're gonna have just a casual conversation about podcast advertising because that's kind of where we sat down to to chat. And um yeah, kind of glad to see that gone. I d I don't see it, I don't see a lot of people pushing it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

I've seen a couple recently with some younger creators, more Gen Z-oriented. Um, I don't know how well it's doing personally, because I skip over it whenever I'm listening to a podcast. So I'm gonna imagine most people are in that direction as well. Um but it's more associating the brand with the person. That's the goal with the influencer podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Well, when you listen to a podcast, I remember going to like a seminar thing and they were like talking about how they wanted to get their ads played on a certain podcast. And I was like, well, to your point, you have to either contact the host and be influenced. They they have to like you have to either pay to be on there or they pay you. It just kind of depends on the the amount of listeners, but they also listen passively too. So I've had people like uh Kristen over she used to work over at St. Matthew's Chamber and she's over at U of L uh Family Business Center now, and um she would go walk her pets out and just that's she would listen to the show. I don't know if she still does. So Kristen, if you're out there, thank you. Um another another friend of the podcast was Dave Bell. He's over at Origin, he works at Origin Park, uh, works for Heritage Foundation over there, I believe is what it's management of that project. Um so Dave Bell was a big listener, but he would listen passively. So uh we we used to do hour-long shows, and then I cut it to 30 minutes because I was like, said all we can. Uh he was like, Your shows are too short. And I was like, Well, what are you doing? And then he was telling me where he was driving to, and he's driving like two hours to like Somerset or something. I was like, I can't talk. I was like, what?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Gotta relisten to some episodes.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah, that's not uh, you know, I mean you might want to, I mean, you know, no, don't want to tell people to listen to another show, but you know, I'd I'm not offended if you went to Joe Rook. That's a three-hour show. Um, but yeah, I don't uh I don't I don't see it a whole lot. I don't know what the return is. I think everybody was looking for like a return, like a sale. And um, so have you you've been still networking, you've been still going out, um, shaking hands and seeing people. Is it does it still feel pretty sales heavy out there with people?

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Um yes, I I believe so. I think a lot of people are more forward with their own sales, they're not necessarily in search of finding someone specific to do business with, um, especially with networking events nowadays. I'd say it's a lot of just pushing it on each other um with the hope of creating a referral. Um, I wouldn't say it's more direct sales, it's more referring people that you've met at previous networking events, and then it ends up turning into a lead for somebody else.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good because I know that there's there's one Friday, but you have to RSVP to it now, but I'll be at a content day with the client. And for us, that's why we've, you know, for those listening, that's why we've sort of disappeared, is because we're we're doing work for clients. I mean, we have literally on-site scheduled days for content creation, collection, and then you know, you need a few days to create the content, like write the post, like write the captions. Like a lot of people think a social media post is an image. It's like it's not an image.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Mm-hmm. It definitely takes longer than I think a lot of people assume. Um, from graphic to copy to caption, um, and then doing research on what hashtags are performing best and what's performing best on the page, and then converting that into future posts. It definitely takes a little bit of time, depending on the uh client and what they're looking for.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah, yeah. So just for everybody to know, like just because she's marketing in marketing, that she's not out doing photos and video shoots. Like she can, but just everybody to know, we have interns, they go out. She's she's bossing some people around. So if you see her on site doing content, trust me, there's another person running around somewhere that she's saying, Go over here, get that photo, get this video, get that for me, because it's your idea that you're you know what you have in your head. You just can direct creatively direct them as you're on site. You're like, you know, make make the client stand there and button the top button of their shirt and what whatever you know you need to do. Um I I I love the fact that you're here and you're doing that because that takes a whole lot of stuff off my plate, um, especially with the management of that, because the podcast we used to do once a week. We don't do it once a week anymore because uh it takes a lot to do this show. Uh it's 20 hours at least a month to do this. Uh and when you add video, double it. So a lot of people come to me and say, like, hey, can you do a podcast for me? I can do maybe 10 episodes, but then after that, we gotta talk about cost just because of that. Production is so high. Um, and I know a couple of guys that can do video really well. Leah and I, we'll we'll we'll get we'll get you there. We're not the people though.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

I dabble.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Yeah, we dabble, but we dabble enough we know where it needs to go. It's it's our partners at at Mammoth Creative that are actually going to be in the room, and Chad and Dixon are amazing uh to work with. And so we can leave that to them. They can even on the spot creatively pick up stuff, figure out things. So we're not entirely they're they're not robotics. They're just they're they're able to like they'll ask us like, what do you think? And I'm like, Well, you already know.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I trust them. All of their work they've ever delivered, all their deliverables are exactly what I need, and I didn't have to ask for anything specific, they just know.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, Chad had uh uh Jessica McCartan, who's a nurse practitioner, she's great to work with at primary care and wellness, and uh had her had her change her clothes. Uh not on camera, but we had her change clothes. So before the shoot, there was all this direction given, like bring a change of clothes. And uh I remember when she put on the shirt, it was the vertical stripes, and I made I cut a joke like you look if you run really fast across a doorway, you look like the Doppler effect. She knew exactly that I was being Sheldon Cooper. She knew the joke, she knew the joke. So that's Jessica. She just gets it, right? So it's great to work with people like that. Yeah. Um, because you ask these things of them, and it sounds weird when you talk about it. But um but once they get into doing it, they're like really comfortable after that. And and I think everybody here and you and everybody's good at that, at helping people get comfortable. So it's weird as weird as that sounds.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Sometimes you just have to ask odd questions and then show them the final results, and they'll understand, and then they'll get on the safe wavelength for the next content day.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah, and then you just kinda keep doing it over and over and over, and it starts to drive itself. I mean, because you build up a library. I think TikTok is the one engine that I hate because you have to feed it so much. Um, and I've seen the numbers for our show, like we've backed off posting on TikTok and and on social. Uh, but you know, that's just a I can see the downloads go down, down, down, and you can track that and platform that we use. Um, but a lot of people think too, with podcast advertising, it's like, well, the whole podcast is kind of an ad. So um one of the things we used to say is everything's an ad. So if you're sitting here in the studio with Leah, it's it's you know, it there's two big banners, and one of them literally has that old slogan on it, even though we're mostly saying pretty is easy, smart is hard now, because it's, you know, I think catching on, like there's a lot of for like you brought it up, there's a lot of thought that goes into what we're doing. So, anyways, what's your thoughts on the um branding versus marketing?

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Branding versus marketing, I think it is a big misconception. Um, if you are not too familiar with the different concepts. Um, I would say since we are more focused on branding, branding is the story behind it as well instead of marketing, marketing I would consider more of the logistics strategy. Um, so we're here to tell a client's story with strategy involved. We're kind of doing a little bit of a mix of both. Um, but you know, we're here to tell their story and get their image across and make them look pretty. Pretty is easy, or pretty is hard. Pretty is easy, smart is hard. I'm staring at the everything is an ad.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah, that's my fault. I gotta get a new one made and all that. Yeah. Um, no, you're right. I mean, how you look when you walk in a room, uh, how your business looks when you cross that threshold. That's the most annoying thing, I'll be honest with you. Not bashing anybody, not naming names or anything like that. Literally, there's nobody that I have in mind when I say this. But I don't like walking across a threshold and everything is just in disarray. Like you just got all kinds of crap flying at me.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

You could have a great business plan with a great service. Um, but you know, if it doesn't look pretty, people are usually going to lean more towards a nicer looking company, which is unfortunate because they're not always the better service. Um, but you know, it's important to put a bow on the present.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So Yeah. Um people have always said like, you know, branding is the uh where where you're trying to get the date, marketing you have the date, and you're on it, or something like that. There's all these analogies with the two, but they're so intrinsically linked. They're not they're binary, you know. You have to have preparation for both. Um sometimes one comes before the other. I mean, I've had people like a lot of times they have like two separate businesses and they want them, they want linkage between them, and they want like, can you make both of them green? Basically. That was actually a response. Um not green, like environmental, like literally the color green. And uh, which I thought was funny, and I got it. I thought, well, okay, I I I see where this is going. But then they were like, well, I want an umbrella brand. They'll they'll say that quote unquote umbrella, you know, and I'm like, but nobody knows the umbrella brand. So you're gonna make a new brand and it's gonna cannibalize the revenue and the attention, the eyeballs that the other two are getting, so it could end up harming, doing more harm than good. So we say a lot of stuff that I think a lot of people scratch their heads and like, why did y'all say no? You could have got that project and could have done it, but then I was like, on the back end we'd been yelled at.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

You have to look at the bigger picture of how everything coordinates with each other.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

And the final goal.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah, the business strategy and the brand strategy are neck and neck, they're right, they're just locked together. Um, and being in marketing, you know, those are just channels to try to spread the message across to distribute it. So, um, but yeah, that's Leah's job. Um, so that allows me to have more time to think. I'm gonna turn down this because I sound like a little bit of rattling or something going on. I'm picking up in my headphones anyway. I'm not sure what that is.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Pouring rain outside.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Oh, it's pouring rain outside. That's what that sound is.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

So uh yeah, surprise, surprise, weather. So this is Leah's first time in the studio. Uh the last time we tried this, there was a big kerfuffle and all the roads were blocked, and then you tried it again, and then you ran into almost the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Mm-hmm. The entire road was blocked. Yeah, and it took me like 30 minutes extra to get here, but you brought rain. It's like it's not the odds are against us, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

I can tell you, uh, in all the years doing this, their grant has always been um we either find ourselves in very strange places or positions with meeting people, good people, um, and opportunities that I think because we really weren't trying, we got it. And I think that was the that's always the thing. And it's like it's nothing really new, I feel like, with with business. You know, if you try, it's like you can people know when you're desperate, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

So I love working for an agency versus in-house because you do get the opportunity to meet so many new people all the time, um, and hear about everybody's business and their story and what they're looking for. You're always working on a unique project.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

So Yeah, that's I that's the one thing I've tried to maintain in Nerdbrand is like I like I like variety too. If I want to go from healthcare to landscaping to eyeglasses, I can I can. Uh I I can make those jumps. Um going to manufacturing, I mean it it's just it it it's the challenge, I think, that that I like. And I don't have to you know, there's there's a lot of people that I think that have respect for that because it's like, okay, your experience is not you're not a mile wide and inch deep. You just have several different pools.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

So it's a unique position versus being in-house because you have to like fully understand multiple businesses at once, but it keeps me interested in the work I'm doing. It's not like I'm marketing one product every single day, all day.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Yeah, that would get boring. And um, you know, for us to understand, we don't we don't have to understand the business in that way because it's not our business. We're not we're not C-suite in that business. I tell people all the time, as much as you like our strategies and our health and our thoughts, we appreciate that we're willing to not be a brand a business consultant or business coach, but we are willing to put our voice at the table in that manner if that's what you want. Um, but at the end of the day, it's like at the end, you know, the the revenue is not up to us unless we are specifically tasked with revenue generation. Uh, then that's that's the case. But other than that, we don't really um offer that as a service, but we do brand consulting's a thing. So we'll tell you that maybe don't wear that tie, maybe don't like, you know, I can tell you Leah's not shy about saying and smiling, like, well, if you think that's a good idea, it's probably her telling you it's not. I've gotten that a couple times, that's how I know.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Well, I mean, if you like that concept, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

I did that one time. Somebody sent me an email. This is years ago, and they were like, I just redid my website, what do you think about it? And I was like, oh god. And I knew that I had to answer, right? And this is like it was a text message. So I thought I was being um gracious, polite, whatever. And I said, Well, if you like it, and I was like, Oh no, that's not the right. It took me like five minutes after sending that to realize, like, oh yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that didn't translate.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Before you could edit out.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

That was before you could edit a text message after sending it. Um, so yeah, they uh they understood what I meant. But you know, when you're dealing with what we deal with, it's like the visuals. Your your logo, the colors you choose. You know, I I it it's hard to it's hard to avoid um I don't want to say ugly, but it's hard to avoid what looks out of place. So we fixed, we try to I try to like be helpful to fix that. And not in the mean way. I think you're better at it than me as far as bringing that message across to say that. Um I I am not. I'm the old man. They're like, he's grouchy.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

It depends on the project of how difficult it can be. Because sometimes it's like they want to convert old colors from an old logo into a new one. And I was like, well, that color palette already is kinda on the rougher side, so you just kind of have to work with it and make it look the best as possible.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

But yeah, and it's always the red and blue, and everybody's patriotic and I love that, but red and blue are so difficult. I used to do car dealer websites years ago. Everybody wanted red, white, and blue on their website, and it was just absolutely awful. Um, it's kind of right up there with saying, like, we're a Christian-owned business. I mean, there's those are red flags, those are not pluses, in my opinion. Uh, because I mean I had a customer who's very Christian, who's very I still have him as a customer. He just told me one time, he said, Jason, he said, every time I get screwed, it's always because as soon as they say that I get screwed. He said it's always been that way in 30 for over like he's done this for 30 years. So you know, yeah. I just don't understand that. But um, if that is your color palette, that's your color palette. We'll try to make that work. Uh you know, red and blues and color color is a science. The one thing I don't have that um is is a actual Pantone swatch book. Uh I think it's about 700 bucks to get one.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

That would be nice to go through clients with.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah, I need to give that to you. Um just for you to have and see and for me and for myself. Because it updates it, but it updates like um it updates every year. So it's I'm overdue to purchase one. Some of the colors that we use, they don't change too much, so I'm not really worried about it. And plus a lot of the the there's a Pantone plug-in in uh Adobe that we have that makes kind of makes up for it. So because it connects literally to the Pantone website. So interesting. Yeah, yeah. So if you're ever working in that, then you can get you a license to that, and that's infinite. That's like 20 bucks a year. Like it's like really different. I like the swatch. I like the actual looking at, like you just said, going with the client and looking at it.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Letting them pick it out.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're literally I think that's fun for the client. Um we just did uh, you know, in doing a logo for the process of that. I know you're in marketing, so it's not in your arena, but we'll have two or three versions made, but then we have tracks or message tracks or or just basically explanations as of why that logo was made that way. And it's that thunder outside. I always pick great times to record.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Yeah. So I was wondering what that was. It sounds like something's falling on the house.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Yeah. Well Wow, Leah, I don't know, what are you doing to me?

SPEAKER_03 20:08

There's some 20 minutes late because the road's closed and it's the only entrance.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

It's alright. Anyways, we always have those uh in the presentation. There is one version you're going to want them to pick. So it's a bit of a shell game, and you're kind of doing a little bit of manipulation, but you're doing it for their benefit because you don't nudge them that way. Yeah, because honestly, I know people like to see choices, and we always do full colors, we never do black and white. Um, I never understood that because I was like, uh you're asking your client to try to imagine, and that's not their job. So they hired you for that. You know, all you can do is your best to pull out of them an interview discovery process of what they're looking for. Um sometimes you just don't get anything. Sometimes when you do that, they're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. You're like, okay, great. Graphic designers are gonna love this. But, you know, when you come back, you're like, well, the outcome of that, here's why that logo looks like that, as an outcome of that. So it kind of gives them room to see, like, oh yeah, I gotta articulate more what I feel or what I think. Um, because we're not asking you subjectively your opinion of the logo. This is your logo, it's your brand. You're gonna have this for a bit. Um there was a rebranding project recently done. We won't name names, um, but it's a little confusing, don't you think? She rubs her forehead.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

It's a little confusing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

But you know a little bit. Um we're we're we're trying to be helpful and I don't think we can. I really don't. Um and if we can't, we can't.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

I think many agencies were trying to be helpful. Yeah. They were. But it turned out Yeah

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And there's that. So that's a conversation with Leah. If you're ever out there and you're like, she didn't say a whole lot. I'm like, oh, okay. Well won't say too much. Yeah. Leah doesn't like to say mean things, and that's a nice thing about her. Um, but you know, she's a real person and she's not AI, not a ghost. Yeah, she exists, she's been around for quite a bit. I gave her like a bunch of t-shirt equipments and things like that. Um, so probably more than she needs. I'm like, here's a bunch of stuff. Here's some meta glasses. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

I've gotten some good content, so it's worth it.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Yeah, yeah. Um and they're definitely handy. Um, you know, customers that help out with uh content is always a plus. Agency shouldn't be threatened by another agency or other people. I'm not. Um they serve their purpose. We serve different, you know. Uh professionally, when you work with a client like that on that level, that usually happens. There's another agency. Uh I always am careful though of when we work with the client that there's somebody there that's in your position that we try not to like threaten. So that's when you really have to like kind of be present more and shine. Um just because of that. And then once that's settled, it's like all right, whatever. It's done, you know. Um, and I think a lot of times that agencies kind of come in and they kind of grab too much and they insist. And it's like, uh, you don't need to do that. They have one problem to fix, fix that, address the other things later.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

I think each agency has their niche that they're very talented in. Um and that it just depends on what the project is and who maybe fit best for it. Like, there may we're really good at branding.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, we we live in that lane and that strategy of developing it, the messaging. And a lot of people are like, what is messaging? Well, you can tune in next time maybe for that. Uh we made true a couple of videos and some shorts, and uh you can kind of watch those, but we're always open to a conversation. So if you ever see Leah out there and you're like, I heard this episode and I want to know what is brand messaging? Um, I don't know what you guys mean when you say messaging. Um, she'll explain it to you. And trust me, it's something you interact with every day. Every day you interact with it, or you've created it and you've not known that you have, and it probably conflicts with something else that you've made. So we fix that. But anyways, um, welcome to the team. Glad to have you on it.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

I'm happy to be here. I've had a great time so far.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, she's not had a bad day yet. We'll see how that goes after she has one of those. Um so far though, we kind of we can't keep it, keep it low-key, and and you know, I don't bring to I had the way that I have with with folks that that join the team. I don't like here, I want you to fix a car, and you're like, wait a minute, I was hired to do that. Like, I don't do that, I don't do a whole lot of crossover because I know I'm not gonna get something good. I know your intention will be to make it good, but I know it won't be because that's just not what you do. You can give it a shot at it, and then I'll tell you, like, in your way, like, that's nice if you like it.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

I can't say I'll be out here making any commercials anytime soon. Um I could direct one, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah, yeah, that could actually be a thing coming up. So that'll be exciting. But, anyways, if you like this episode of the Nerdbrand Podcast, go to NerdbrandAgency.com slash podcast. Be sure to go to Facebook. Uh, you can go to you can find we even have a little bit of a snarky Twitter account. It's my fault. Yeah, I'll just own it. It's just my fault. Um, I run that. And um we have uh, you know, Leah's running like the rest of things, and so it's just at Nerdbrand Agency is how you find them. So uh appreciate y'all listening and uh keep your nerd brand strong.