Rob & Jason Kick Off 2026

In this episode of the Church Talk podcast, hosts Rob and Jason reflect on the year 2025, discussing the challenges and opportunities it presented. They explore the transition from local to regional ministry, the relentless nature of church leadership, and the importance of consistency in setting goals for the new year. The conversation also touches on predictions for 2026, including the integration of AI in church leadership and the potential generational shift in leadership dynamics. The hosts emphasize the need for intentional effort in building healthy church communities and encourage pastors to lead with purpose and vision.

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Transcript

Jason Allison (00:00)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Church Talk podcast with Rob and Jason. Rob, we are recording this on the last day of 2025. Now tell me this, I mean, let's be honest, are you sad that 2025 is coming to an end?

Rob Paterson (00:22)
That is a great question. I'm weird in most, in many ways and in a lot of ways that I perceive things. So since COVID, I feel like it's become very fashionable for everyone to be like, that was the worst year ever. Hopefully this year is much better, right? Like that's just been everybody's thing. And quite honestly, were there things that I did not like about 2025? Sure.

And that's true for every single year I've been on the planet. And are there things that I absolutely loved and appreciated about 2025? Absolutely. So I am a, can find good and bad in all things kind of a person. So, you know.

Jason Allison (01:03)
So

you're pretty much just to both sides or all the way around.

Rob Paterson (01:08)
Yeah, although I do have an optimistic edge. Like I'm way more of an optimist than a pessimist, but I also bring some realism in. I used to like when I was 20, like it was all optimism and positivity and, whatever. And I've lived enough life and like, you know, fell through enough kind of cracks in the earth, you know, and things like that where now I'm like, you know what, like I'm still really optimistic and hopeful as just my general disposition. But, I, I also am like,

Jason Allison (01:11)
You do.

Rob Paterson (01:35)
Yeah, that's likely not going to work out because I have enough history to know that it just won't. What about you? Do you? Are you excited for this year to be in the rearview? Are you?

Jason Allison (01:46)
Yeah, I'm a little bit with you and that there was a lot of there's some really good things and there are some really hard things that happened in 2025. So. I'm kind of glad to be done with some of that, like just through transitions. That's kind of I think where I'm at is I'm tired of being in transition and 2025 was a year of multiple significant transitions. And so I'm ready to find a rhythm.

Rob Paterson (02:01)
Hmm

Jason Allison (02:14)
And I feel like 2026 is an opportunity now to get into some kind of rhythm of life that's and again, it's not my life is a little hectic in that because of travel, because of just, you know, life situation. I don't have a weekly routine of, know, every week looks very similar. I don't mean that 2026 is going to bring that into my life. What I think, though, is

I mean, I went just did so many transitions from, I mean, heck this this past couple of weeks. This is my first time as an adult not having a bunch of church stuff to do over the Christmas time, you know, whether it's Christmas Eve services and kids things and this and that, know, like and it still ended up crazy busy for other reasons. But I didn't have church pressure.

And I'm literally the first time in my adult life. So I've experienced several of these times over the last year where it's, you from transitioning out of the local church to helping the church that I had planted and then, you know, supported through the relaunch and then hand it over to this larger church. And like, I'm just ready for that to be in the rear view mirror. That's really all.

Rob Paterson (03:24)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. You know, I know we got a lot of ground to cover in this, you know, first episode that people will hear in 2026, but I'm curious because I know like there are lots of people in ministry that, you know, just feel like, no, I'm going to be in the local church forever. Or some maybe that kind of aspire to, I'd love to do regional or denominational work or whatever. But if you spent your whole life in the local church, they have no idea what that feels like. It's certainly

no idea what that transition feels like. And I know this is off the cuff. We've like, we haven't talked about this, but as you said that I thought to myself, Jason, what is like one thing you would go, man, I've really loved this about sort of the transition out of local church ministry into more regional ministry, helping, you know, a hundred plus churches. And what's something, maybe one thing that you're like, I kind of miss this about like the local church that.

that maybe I didn't see when I was doing it. But now that I kind of look back even from just a short window that you're you're like, yeah, that was fun.

Jason Allison (04:26)
So I'm going to answer those in reverse. The thing that I miss about the local church ministry is the people that I got to see every week, right? Just the regular interactions with people and just regulars at the church. A group of guys that I let a Bible study with, or the people that volunteered every week that I always got to engage with and connect with and talk with. I love that part.

Right? So I miss that kind of regular interaction. The thing that I guess I don't miss, I don't miss the fact that Sunday comes every week, whether you want it to or not. Like I can think in terms of, you know, six weeks or 12 weeks of, you know, projects that I can work on.

And I don't have that annoying service every stinking Sunday that I have to plan for. And so that's just a different way of thinking of things that I've never been able to think about, honestly. And I think in addition to that, I know that doing what I'm doing now just really fits into my sweet spot of ministry. I'm wired this way. I've done all the...

Rob Paterson (05:22)
Mmm.

Jason Allison (05:35)
you know, gift test and the all the stuff and this this kind of work is right up my alley. And so that's that's been life giving to me, because any time you're doing what you are wired to do, it know, it helps. But honestly, just being able to connect with churches and pastors all over the East Coast and just seeing what God is doing in other places that I mean, I have nothing to do with. I'm not taking credit for any of it. It's just

Wow, when I get to go see this place, it gives me hope. You know, it's like, OK, God is not done with the American church. You know, like there are things happening in big and small places. You know, some of these places are tiny little churches that, you know, 70 people show up on any given Sunday. And then there are other places where it's seven thousand or seventeen thousand. But yeah, I think so that's.

Rob Paterson (06:09)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Allison (06:30)
Yeah, what do I love about it? I love getting to see all these different things happening and and and but I do miss just the regular interaction with the same people, right? Every week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (06:40)
Yeah, that depth of relationship that can come out of just life together,

which you don't have in quite the same way. that's, yeah, that's huge. You know, it's funny, I love kind of the weekly experience of church. I love, but this week in particular, with Christmas and New Year's kind of falling more in the middle of the week this year.

Jason Allison (06:49)
I have to work at it. It's yeah.

Rob Paterson (07:07)
and, we always take off between Christmas and new years. I don't preach the week after Christmas, but just how it felt, what did that mean? Well, I had stuff to do like pretty much every day. even for Christmas, we invited somebody over from the church, you know, who was just having a difficult year and just having some community. And it was great. We had a lot of fun with that, but literally there was one day where I kind of did nothing. I rested more. And, and so, you know,

My worship guy yesterday when we were like, I was spent hours planning, writing things for the January series and sending those out to the team. And he's like, man, this this whole Sunday thing keeps like it's relentless. Wouldn't it be nice in ministry if there were just two times a year spaced out like by five, six months, we're just Sunday didn't happen. It was just Friday, Saturday, Monday, Friday, Saturday, Monday, just twice a year, just twice a year, because it is difficult.

Jason Allison (07:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Rob Paterson (08:01)
even if you love it, even if it's how you're wired and who God's called you to be, to just always have Sunday come and you don't feel like you can get the progress on some of the bigger projects that you really want to spend more dedicated time working

Jason Allison (08:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, and that's where I think it's important to have multiple voices at your church, whether they're inside or outside. know, having the ability to give up your pulpit for a week without it, without feeling like, the whole church will crumble if I'm not the one speaking. ⁓ Because, you know, there are weeks that you aren't on vacation, but you're not preaching. And so that while there's still that, you know, Sundays come in either way and you're still.

Rob Paterson (08:34)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (08:43)
The buck still stops with you, right? Ultimately. But if you don't have to prepare the message, you don't have to make sure, you know, all the transitions, everything is worked out, all the that is a week you can work on bigger projects or, know, or maybe take the week off. But but if you're not taking the week off. So I think it's important for pastors to be OK with planning that into their rhythm and just say, hey, you know what? I'm going to have a week where I'm in the office.

And I'm working, but I'm working on big picture stuff. I'm not working on this coming Sunday. I've got someone else who's going to handle that. Anyway, that's my thought.

Rob Paterson (09:20)
Yeah, yeah,

that's good. That's good. Hey, so this is not like this just a little segment here, but you and I were talking about, know, like the Kerry new Hoffs of the world. You know, he did his thing is seven predictions for 2026 and it's not going to be quite that like ominous or involved for us. But we have some things that some trends that we see, some predictions, if you will. We put on our little

Nostradamus hat here again. You know, let's let's talk about those. What's what's one for you? What do you see coming this next year?

Jason Allison (09:51)
Okay, I'm going to start with a crazy one just because I can. I think this year somewhere in America, a church is going to hire a senior pastor who is actually just an AI program of some kind. And I don't know exactly what that means because I'm not smart enough to understand all the AI stuff, but they are going to they're going to be led. A church is going to be led by an AI.

type person or avatar or whatever it is. And it's going to be a flash in the pan and it's going to explode and be terrible. But then everybody's going to make fun of it. But I'm saying someone's going to try it and it's going to be crazy. And it's laying the groundwork to normalize this kind of thing.

Rob Paterson (10:18)
Mmm.

Mm. That's so interesting. And I know there's plenty of people who are listening and I don't even, I honestly, I don't know where I like, I hear your prediction and I don't know if I'm like, yeah, that probably will. Or if I'm thinking Jason has completely lost his marbles. Like, you know, it could, it could, it might be some of both. But as I heard that, the thing that I did think in my head was,

Jason Allison (10:49)
Ha

Yeah, it could go either way.

Rob Paterson (11:01)
For anyone who's listening, who's going, yeah, there's just no way. We're never going there. And if we did, it would be the worst thing ever. I know plenty of pastors. I know plenty of regional and kind of district leaders, even denominational leaders that I have like talked to and reached out to some of these people because I know them. And I'm like, I ask a question because I'm like, hey, I'm trying to do this for the first or second time. You've done it like 25 times. So help me, like help me see what I don't know.

And a number of them, like their beginning thing is, let me ask chat GPT. And so then they get like a framework of an answer, pulling in all sorts of whatever sources, wisdom, thoughts do. And they start with that and then they color in around, you know? And so I just say that out loud to say there are already tons of people that are using AI. And so you might still have, you know, like the skeleton, the meats, the organ, you know, like a pastor at your church.

But you know, some of them are really heavily relying on. And so you're already getting hearing a lot of AI generated stuff, whether that's like the totality or whether that's, you know, just sort of informing. So, you know, again, I know people probably feel all kinds of different ways about that, but I think in some respects that's already happened.

Jason Allison (12:16)
yeah.

Yes, absolutely. All right. There's my first crazy one. What do you got?

Rob Paterson (12:21)
Hmm.

Yeah, you know, I think maybe I'll start with my crazy. have, you know, two and I'll start with my crazy one as well. And this, I don't know, it might not even sound crazy, but you know, all the division that we have sort of been living in and literally every area of life, right? People disagreed about COVID. People disagreed about politics. There's all kinds of racial tensions. Like it just seems like everything there is no middle anymore. It's it's the extremes.

Jason Allison (12:38)
Yeah. yeah.

Rob Paterson (12:50)
And I really feel like this year things are going to get worse and maybe even significantly worse. But, but in that worse, you know, we like, we all feel hope. I've talked to, even in the last couple of weeks, I've talked to people who were just like, I don't even know how to feel about things. Like there's just so much division. Things are so bad. Like Jesus, please come. We need you now type of a thing. But I really feel like that's because we're looking at it like up close and I feel like things.

have to get so bad that they actually break. And the result of that is that, you know, there's like humility, there is repentance and, and that people kind of come back to the center. And I think we'll know that that's really happening. And I, and I think we've seen even some little trickles of that. Like I'll use one of the big ones everybody sees politics, you know, and people talk about like this Trump derangement syndrome. The other day I was reading a post that someone had.

Jason Allison (13:24)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (13:48)
About this horrific thing that happened to a family from another country that, that, you know, had their papers filled out. They had done the right things, but you know, ice came in and took this family away and like left their two year old kid or whatever with like, was a horrific story. And of course, one of the comments there always is somebody was like, here we go again. People blame him Trump for everything. Like, so like, you know, there's, there's, this Trump derangement syndrome where people who are more conservative and, and, really maybe more, way more than that. Like.

just fans of the president, they're like everybody who is progressive liberal disagrees. Everything's his fault and he's the worst human that ever lives. And you know, that's not true, right? He isn't the worst human who's ever lived. Not every single thing that he says does is bad, right? So yeah, that exists. But I see the exact same thing on the other side, where if you're a fan,

Jason Allison (14:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Rob Paterson (14:42)
You know, he can do no wrong, you know, and it's like, listen, I mean, every one of us makes mistakes and does things wrong. And, you know, and there are times where he does it in especially egregious ways. And yes, yes.

Jason Allison (14:44)
Yeah.

Well, and especially public way, because he is the president. mean, like

every single breath he takes is analyzed. And so when he does do something stupid or wrong or whatever, it's definitely going to be exploded.

Rob Paterson (15:11)
Yeah, yeah. And I do want to kind of cap this one by saying that, you know, I pray regularly for our president and I pray regularly for every president we've had when they're in office, just because I think that's what God commands us to do. I want to be as supportive as I can. also don't want to be blind, but I have seen again, kind of maybe a little kind of mini kind of

Jason Allison (15:24)
Right.

Rob Paterson (15:37)
breaking explosion in this area because I have seen people who said, man, he could do nothing right. Who have said, actually, I agree with that one or I like that step or that. And I've seen plenty of people too who were in the, can do no wrong camp who have said, man, that choice, those words, that action just are things that I never want to see from a president. So I've seen some

Jason Allison (16:03)
Yeah.

Rob Paterson (16:04)
centering there.

Jason Allison (16:05)
Yeah, but so you just undermined your own prediction.

Rob Paterson (16:08)
I know, I'm terrible.

Jason Allison (16:11)
You just said it's going to get worse, but then you, you pointed out.

Rob Paterson (16:12)
No! Well, I think I, I,

here's why though. I think that's one of these. It's a little ee and then it's going to continue. That's what I mean.

Jason Allison (16:18)
OK, yeah, I

do think we're not a political podcast, but I do think with next year being the midterm elections, we are going to see an increase. And I think again, I'm not a prognosticator or a pundit, but I will predict I got to keep the peace going right. I'm Baptist preacher. But I do I really do think that this coming election cycle with the midterms could be a huge part

Rob Paterson (16:37)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (16:48)
of that tension being brought to a head. And so, I mean, there is a good chance that the Democrats, you know, take the House and the Senate. And if that happens, we're going to see a reaction from the president, right, where he tries to get a bunch of things done through executive or done quickly. Or we're going to see them then come in and undo a whole bunch.

or in response. I do think that this year there is going to be and as pastors we need to be ready for that. Right. I mean we need to be ready to say it's going to get messy this year and we're going to have people who disagree. We need to start now teaching people to disagree well. And so yeah no I think I think you're right.

Rob Paterson (17:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you know that this is the problem with us. We kind of feed off of each other, so these things could totally just like go forever. We could talk about, you know, one thing for like nine hours and lose all of our listeners for this episode. But man, you know, as you were saying that I just I actually there we go. I pontificated too much and I lost my train of thought, so I don't know what I was going to say. Jason, what's your second prediction?

Jason Allison (17:42)
Yeah.

Perfect.

OK, so I'm going to get way off the political stuff. I believe that this year we will see a massive decrease in the medium sized church. And here's what I mean. I think the number of churches that are, you know, between four hundred and eight or nine hundred, kind of that medium size, which is really large anymore. But that that section, they're going to bottom out. They're either going to grow and become, you know, a much larger church.

or they are going to shrink and go back to a 200, 250 kind of size, whether it's because of splits, because what it takes to grow into that next thing is going to piss half the church off and they're gonna leave, right? And so you're gonna end up with two unhealthy, small churches. I think that you're gonna end up, so I just think that's gonna happen. We're gonna see that almost the middle class of churches, it's gonna get.

wiped out or at least experienced some significant blows in 2026.

Rob Paterson (18:56)
Yeah, you know, and as you say that the the example I've always thought of here is, you know, the idea like of a Walmart versus like a mom and pop shop. And, you know, I, I, my wiring as a consumer, you know, through my adult life has always been I love I love the specialty shops, you know, I love the mom and pop shop. I love the relationship. I love the community.

Jason Allison (19:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rob Paterson (19:22)
I, you know, I love that they can offer higher end products and services because their business model isn't get somebody in your ecosystem, make them wealthy and then cheapen like their things so that you can sell a gazillion of them. You know what I mean? And like, but you know, let's just be honest. One of the, mean, if I just need a steak, I'm going to go to the butcher and buy like a nice high end steak. But if I need all my groceries.

Jason Allison (19:37)
Yeah. ⁓

Rob Paterson (19:49)
so much more convenient and easy to go to the place that has all of it and for way better prices, right? So there's this tension everywhere. And I get it because I talk to people, I see this in people where they're like, no, I mean, I want to be in a place where I can, like you talked about, where I can have deep relationships and I can know people and we can actually live life and do things and accomplish things together. And yet.

Jason Allison (20:01)
you

Rob Paterson (20:12)
I want all of the services and all of the amenities in a beautiful, huge building. you know, like, like we, so, so we get kind of stuck because we see like the benefits of the mom and pop shop and the, and just the community and the level of excellence you can achieve. And yet we want all of the services in one place, which is more of the mega church, which is why, you know, kind of that middle ground that kind of like,

Jason Allison (20:34)
Yep. ⁓

Rob Paterson (20:38)
You start to lose some of your community. cause it gets a little bit too big to know everybody, but it's too small to do all the things and have all the services, right? Like that's why that probably is, is really going to happen.

Jason Allison (20:52)
Yeah, so I've had multiple conversations over the last few weeks with people from different churches. All right. So this isn't the same. And they're not even in my tribe necessarily. OK, so they're from a variety of things and a common theme that I as you're saying this, I'm starting to realize common theme is, you know, one of them. Well, the church that I was part of that now is merged with a larger church Sunday morning. The teaching is.

via video, right? It's live, but it's streamed, right, from the central location. And the guy's good and all that stuff, and that's fine, but it's still a video. It's not the person who greeted you when you walked in. It's not flesh and blood. And so I've had a couple of people say they gave it a good shot. They just don't like it. And here's the reason. I want to know the person who is teaching and leading my church.

Rob Paterson (21:18)
video.

Jason Allison (21:43)
Now, that statement in and of itself is fine. I get it. But here's what they're also saying is, and I want a relationship with that person so that I have some kind of input into the shaping of our community. And that's not a bad thing like at all. But you're not going to get that as the church grows. Right. If you're a church of eight hundred, every single person has less influence.

on the overall church. Same thing in a whole other state. A person said, you know, I, I don't think my pastor likes me. I was like, what are you talking about? I, know both of you and yeah, he likes you. You're just, but he's actually single, right? He's, he's not a person, even though he's late fifties. And you're, you know, a 40 late forties woman. He's not

going to interact with you like your best buds because that could cause major problems if people, know, like it's just common set. Like it's just okay. You know, it's not nothing personal, but, but they were like, but I really want my pastor to like me. And so I'm just seeing those conversations. Those, those themes come up to where it's like, if our church gets so big that I can't know the pastor, then I don't want to go there.

And with the opposite. Right.

Rob Paterson (23:01)
Which means you can't go to a church of 200. Like

it's got to be under probably significantly under 200.

Jason Allison (23:08)
Yeah,

but it also goes back to what you said, but I want a church that gives me everything, right? I want the programs and the thing, you know, and so it's a, that conundrum is going to come to a head. And I really think we're going to see an even greater bottom of the, of the medium sized church.

Rob Paterson (23:25)
Yeah, you know, and just like again, kind of maybe a cappy kind of idea. I just think that for those listening in, maybe who you you aren't a pastor on staff at a church or whatever. And you're like, man, yeah, no, I feel that too. I'm not so sure my pastor really even likes me. I know just because like of just sort of living inside my own mind and heart. And I know just because I have a ton of friends who are clergy.

man, like you don't stay in a profession like this if you don't love people. And so I'm almost certain that your pastor loves you. It's just that they feel so stretched in so many different directions that they can't give everybody all the time that is needed to sort of communicate those things consistently.

Jason Allison (24:08)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. All right. Keep moving. What's your what's your last one?

Rob Paterson (24:14)
All right, here's my last one. I really feel like leadership teams, whether it's like staff, whether it's elders, leaders, and even pastors is we're going to see a significant move in 2026 to getting drastically younger. And as part of that, it's going to get messy, but

we're going to see not in 2026, probably 2026 is when we go, this was a bad idea, but the mess is going to be worth it. and, and so kind of here's like, just a little bit more kind of what's in my mind at heart on this. Like, and I've said it for years, like, man, when, when we hire a new staff person, when we are picking a new elder, you know, even whoever replaces me, they just got to be significantly young.

And the pushback is always, well, do they have the wisdom? Is their relationship kind of marriage locked in enough for them to sort of weather the trials of ministry, all those things? And I think for those of us who are like the boomers or Gen X like you and I, like...

We, we, maybe we've, there's a couple areas where we're like, and that's not as big a deal to me as it used to be. Right. Like, so we've softened on some things, but we're still who we have always been. And the core things are still the core things and there's no wiggle room there. And then the millennials came along and scared the heck out all of us. Cause they got like hyper progressive and we're willing to just throw everything out to be kind or whatever. which doesn't resonate with us. Xers that much. and so we're like, yeah, you know, we,

Jason Allison (25:49)
Not being kind.

Rob Paterson (25:52)
Man, we can't trust them, but man, like Gen Z has just been so interesting, right? Like their passion and hunger for the Bible, I think has been more significant than we've seen for generations in our country. And I also think, I mean, certainly some of them still have continued, you know, down hyper progressive paths, but there's a lot of them that just care just about foundation and are a lot more conservative. I don't mean that politically.

although that might be true too, but even sort of biblically and with church and things like that. And so I just think the mess of welcoming those people and voices in is going to be worth it because we can either say, nope, we've got to keep doing it until we like get to the end and we die. The problem then is the church dies with us. And if we aren't willing to embrace some of this mess, man, but if we do, guess what? I think we'll reach more people.

will be way more effective at continuing not only to reach the current generations, but future generations as well. So I think that's why it's worth

Jason Allison (26:52)
Yeah,

so I'm thinking back on some of the guests that we've had over the past year and a few of them, like their entire ministry is around building up the next generation of leaders, right? You know, the next wave and making sure they're equipped and empowered. Even if they're not ready now, let's make sure that in the next three years, five years,

They at least have the tools that they can start diving into ministry, diving into leadership in all aspects of life, but specifically in the ministry. ⁓ Yeah, we are. We are definitely at a point where if we don't, if that doesn't happen, we're screwed. Like, I mean, it's just it's not God's not screwed. God can do whatever he wants and he will. But we're looking around going.

Rob Paterson (27:26)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Allison (27:41)
The leadership, God's going to have to start fresh in a lot of places if we don't start doing what God said, making disciples, raising up leaders, training people, you know, what it means to actually follow Jesus.

Rob Paterson (27:53)
And here's why this matters to me more than anything. and it's actually, I was, fear is not the right word, but one of the things that is kind of like an internal concern, a deep concern for me is do I really want something I spent decades of my life investing in and building come to an end when I'm done?

Jason Allison (28:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (28:14)
kind of actively building that. I don't, want it to outlive me. I want it to be better after me. And so, you know, part of that process is just gonna be, and again, if I wanna control it all and not give it away and not invite younger people in who can continue afterwards, guess what? We're stuck.

Jason Allison (28:32)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's some predictions. Some of them are not as crazy as others, but that's all right. And you know what? It's kind of one of those, if you disagree with us, prove us wrong, right? Right in. Tell us why we're full of malarkey. ⁓

Rob Paterson (28:44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, well, and Jason,

I love we because we've even pointed this out, but it's been like years ago now. I still remember 2020. It was probably the most egregious one where like Carrie Newhoff was doing his predictions. And I always laugh because sometimes like where the church is going one year and then the next year, it's like the exact opposite direction. And the one that always stood out to me was like, you know, COVID when everybody had to figure out some measure of how to be digital, you know, like how to offer digital

Jason Allison (29:15)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (29:17)
teaching and whatever, even if they've never done it, it wasn't comfortable at all. And a lot of churches did that and carries like, man, this is like the wave of the future and churches are going to have like, like these full on online congregations and some churches might be totally that way and whatever. And then the next year it was, you know, the online stuff is a great first step to get people in person cause in person and I'm just like, what if somebody spent like $250,000 building out a studio and buying equipment and doing a yeah. Right. Like,

Jason Allison (29:38)
Yeah.

⁓ I know people who did. Yeah.

Rob Paterson (29:47)
like so. So yes, please hear none of our predictions as things that ought to like, you know, completely wholesale change anything you're doing other than maybe that last one. I really do feel like people need to take the risk on younger people in wise ways. Don't like well, I only have one younger person in their life is a mess, but but Robin Jason said no, don't do that. But man, get younger if and when you can't. All right.

Jason Allison (29:57)
Yeah.

Here you go!

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's cool.

Rob Paterson (30:13)
So Jason, as we want to engage, equip, and encourage our listeners, especially like that's kind of our mission, but especially as we move into this new year, there's this thing I think, let's spend our last 13 minutes talking about. I really feel like,

there's this cultural thing and we, we, we've all seen it, right? Like this is the time of year where people have all of their new year's resolutions. If you think that's a little too whimsical sounding, you call them your goals, right? But it doesn't really matter what we call them. the truth is like all the statistics show this. It's why like the second Friday, I think second, third Friday in January, they call it quitting Friday because that's when a pretty significant percentage of people have already quit, given up.

Jason Allison (30:55)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (31:00)
by the end of January, I think it's like 43%. Am I? Yeah, I might be giving very generous, but by the end of the year, it's 90 % or higher of people have completely given up. like, you know, people don't actually accomplish what they say they're going to accomplish. And, um, and, and, and, and then that happens, you know, over and over again, cyclically. I remember Michael Hyatt saying years ago, and it really gripped my

Jason Allison (31:03)
I think it's higher. I don't remember. Yes.

Right.

Rob Paterson (31:30)
He said, you know, in the last 10 years, like, have you seen sort of growth and progress or have you just lived the same year 10 times? And, and man, that, that continues to live in my mind. Like, it's just this constant driver to want to make sure that I am not like basically just on repeat and staying stuck because here's the truth. We like to think that we ministry types are a little bit more.

Jason Allison (31:51)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (31:58)
You know, grounded and stable. And if you know, we say it, we're going to do it. But man, I mean, I'd say for me, there have been goals I've had year after year and I get excited at this time of year and then life happens and, you know, I get tripped up and I regress and I look back and go, man, I wish I would have kept going or I wish I would have followed through in greater ways. Cause here's here. And this is kind of, think kind of the jumping off point. Let's talk about this. if

what you have been doing, you know, this year, this week, right now is nothing. The likelihood of something magical happening just because it's January, 2026 is slim and none. And even if you do make some tweaks and changes, the likelihood of you following through with those things, if you haven't worked to consistently build in that direction is pretty slim and none.

Jason Allison (32:47)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Paterson (32:51)
What a hopeful thing for me to say to our listeners. I thought you wanted to encourage us, Rob, and equip us. You know, that didn't sound very encouraging.

Jason Allison (32:57)
Yeah, Mr. Optimistic there.

I'm always hopeful. Blah, blah, blah. Everybody's going to screw this up. No one's going to actually do any of the resolutions they make. I like that, Rob. You're really you're that's hashtag winning. Right. But but here's the thing. You're you're spot on in that the reason these resolutions don't work, these goals, whatever you want to call it, right, is because we haven't put in into place

Rob Paterson (33:02)
You

Yeah.

Jason Allison (33:25)
the regular habits to build those kind of goals, right? You're not gonna go from sitting on the couch to running a marathon in a week, right? But you also are never gonna run a marathon if you never get off the couch. So there's gotta be some incremental smaller steps that you build into the routine and the rhythm of your life so that those muscles get worked, and all of a sudden over time,

you begin to see changes. And that's where I think you're we don't want that. We don't want to wait. You know, I don't want to change my diet every day. I'll change it for a day or two. But then I want to go back to some of the stuff I like. Well, that's not helpful. You you undo all the good you did in one meal. And that's the hard part, because the first time I eat a salad, I don't lose three pounds.

Rob Paterson (33:54)
Mmm.

Jason Allison (34:19)
You know, so it's like, eight salad.

Rob Paterson (34:21)
Yeah, that's

because you put too much dressing on it.

Jason Allison (34:24)
See, no matter what I do, I'm screwed. I cannot win at this. Right. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, OK, so that's why it's hard for us to eat salad. You know, or that's extreme. But, know, it reduce calories a little bit and eat more healthy for six weeks. And we see, I'm feeling a little better. I'm you know, I've got a little more energy. I've maybe I've lost a couple of pounds.

but it's like six weeks and all I get is a couple pounds and I might feel a little better. give me a pill. Make this, make this worth it. You know, like that. And that's where as pastors, we, we think about the, outputs that we want to see, but we don't want to change any of the inputs that we're using in our church. And so that's, I'm headed to meet with the church this coming weekend and

Rob Paterson (35:08)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (35:14)
meeting with their elders and leadership team to say, okay, let's I can, you know, we did some stuff. We did some pre-work. I can tell you what your outputs are and I can tell you what your impact is. And some of it's really good, but there's a couple of things that are just missing. The only way to change the output and the impact is to adjust the inputs. And that means adjusting it, not just today, you know,

Rob Paterson (35:32)
Mmm.

Jason Allison (35:44)
OK, this Sunday we're going to preach this sermon and that'll change everything. No, this Sunday and the following and the following, we're going to begin to turn the tide of our mentality. And it's going to take, you know, I usually tell churches it takes at least a year if you tweak the inputs to change the output. It takes three to five years for the outputs to begin to have any kind of impact on the impact that you're having in the community.

Rob Paterson (36:11)
Mm.

Jason Allison (36:12)
And nobody wants to hear that. Maybe that's why I don't get asked to speak at some places. They don't want to hear that it's going to take time.

Rob Paterson (36:19)
Yeah, yeah. Well, culturally, we don't want to hear that either, right? Like we want it now. But I mean, there's and there's all kinds of examples like let's see. Let's start with like a, you know, one that that doesn't feel offensive or oppressive to our listeners. Like for you and I, when we decided to do like this coming summer will be four years we've been doing this podcast every single week. And, you know, there's weeks where we're busy. There have been weeks where we've been sick.

there's weeks where, know, we're traveling, there's weeks where there's funerals, there's weeks where it's Christmas time. doesn't matter. Right. And yet we have done an episode every single week since, you know, and we mentioned, I mentioned the last number of weeks. Like I have a friend who said, man, like one of the reasons I love listening to you guys is cause what the things you talk about, but every Monday morning on my way to work, when I go to listen, you are there consistently. Right. And so if we weren't there once or twice,

Jason Allison (36:49)
Yeah. Yep.

Rob Paterson (37:12)
he may get bumped off his routine, right? So like when we are not consistent, we lose impact. Has it always been easy? No, but we've just been committed to doing it no matter what. It's kind of like pastor, you have someone in your church who comes to you and says, well, I just feel so disconnected from God spiritually. And you might ask questions like, hey, like how often do you open and read your Bible? How often do you pray?

you know, like practicing spiritual disciplines, right? How consistently are you connected in spiritual community, showing up at church, being part of a small group, whatever, right? And if the answer is that some of those things are sporadic or non-existent, you'd be like, well, it's because you're not consistent at the things that create that outcome. And in the same way, like, you you want to be healthy. It's like, okay, tell me about how much sleep you get. Tell me about, you know,

how well you can and consistently you hydrate, how much water do you drink every day? What does your diet look like? What are you putting into your pie hole? And if it's always pie, there's a problem, right? And how much do you move your body? Like what is your movement, walking, exercise look like and how consistent is it? And if people aren't doing those things, but they want to, it's never gonna happen. And I know plenty of pastors even.

Jason Allison (38:10)
Yes.

Rob Paterson (38:23)
that hit the easy button. mean, in this whole GLP one kind of kick and we can get stuff online through all these different services. And it's like, and I see some of these people like when I saw you three months ago, there was like 100 pounds more of you. And now it looks like you're a skeleton with like skin hanging off you. And again, if your doctor tells you to do that, then you know, usually because of other things then fine. But if you're just doing this because it's easier, Rob, I'm

Jason Allison (38:27)
Yeah.

Hahaha.

Right.

Rob Paterson (38:51)
I'm just of the age where it just won't come off anymore. I'm just of this. I'm just of that. No, you're just not doing the things that give you the outcome you want. And you're trying to circumvent the actual, you know, process. And this is the equipping part, right? This is why being honest about just getting hopeful and thinking something magical happened in January doesn't change a thing. ⁓ But doing the steps every day changes the thing.

Jason Allison (39:02)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Mm-mm.

Let me, I want to book in the podcast here. We started by saying how every Sunday comes every week, whether we want it to or not and how draining that can be at times. But when you flip that and you think about everything you just said, Rob, right. We as pastors of a, of a local church, we have every Sunday as an opportunity to change the inputs that we are giving into our church.

Right. It's not a if we don't get it right this week. Well, it'll be another six months before I get a shot at it. No, you have every week you have 52 more services in twenty twenty six. What are you going to do in those 52 services? What little things can you begin doing and do consistently that will help turn the tide of what your goal might be for your for your congregation? And I truly believe that

you, whoever you are, right? You are the right person to be at that church right now, because I do believe God is in control. Right. And God, God, if you're not the right person, God will move you because he loves his church and he will make sure the right people are there. So whatever it is when you are spending time with God, again, assuming you're actually doing it consistently over time, all the stuff you just said, right? What is God revealing to you, showing you that

Your church, the church you've been called to lead needs to do in the next year. Let's not make it crazy in the next year. What are some, what are some things that you would like to see improvement in? And, know, maybe it's a discipleship pathway to help people really connect with growing. Okay. Well, what are you going to do for the first six weeks each week to help with that? Like it doesn't have to be huge, right? And that's why I love the way you put that is, is

Rob Paterson (40:54)
Yeah.

Jason Allison (41:14)
I was jotting this down to do the right thing as best as you can consistently over time. That's how you change things. It's not a silver bullet.

Rob Paterson (41:22)
Yeah, yeah, and it

doesn't matter how much energy and excitement you have right now as the New Year's beginning. And you're like, I'm going to change these 10 things and we're going to go from them being non-existent to completely fully functioning. You know what? Like it could be something as simple as you go and you know, people keep coming to me for spiritual assistance. And if I'm being honest, like my tank is empty and I don't even do a great job of praying and reading my Bible.

Jason Allison (41:29)
yeah.

Yes.

Rob Paterson (41:51)
What if you just spent this year, you know, consistently connecting with God more and really becoming an expert practitioner of that. So that as you move into 2027, you have something significant to give. If that's all you did and didn't get overwhelmed by trying to do a million things. And, and like Jason, you said this right before we, and I thought it was perfect. You don't have to do it like amazing to make a difference.

just giving that consistent effort will literally change the world.

Jason Allison (42:23)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and I'm just thinking of some of our past guests, you know, everybody from, uh, you know, Mitch Harrison we had, and we go back and listen to that one. But then, uh, JD Walt, uh, he, we, talked with him and the seed bed, uh, stuff and, and man, I get his email every day. Uh, and, and I read a section of scripture and I read the little thought about it every single day. And

It means a lot to me just to have that. Now I have other ways that I am studying, man, I know that's going to be in my inbox every morning. Figure those things out. Go back and listen, get connected with something because you had to make a difference. And you're right, Rob, man, over time, God has chosen to use fallen people like us and in a community of people he calls a church to change the really where the world is going. And I don't know why, but he did it.

Rob Paterson (43:07)
Hmm.

Jason Allison (43:16)
And so we get the honor of joining him. So we are excited for another year together. It's going to be fun. We've got lots of ideas and things forming. We'd love to hear from you. Shoot us an email, shoot us a text, whatever. Let us know. We'd love to hear what you'd like to hear. We'd love to connect with you. so reach out and let us know.

Rob Paterson (43:38)
Yeah, Jason, you know what? Would you just pray for, as we close this episode, would you just pray for our listeners that God would bless them in this year to come?

Jason Allison (43:42)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. God, I know this is recorded and people are hearing this way after I actually prayed it, but I'm going to pray right now that you would bless our listeners. You would give them encouragement. You would challenge them where they need to be challenged. you would, you would work in their life in their spirit so that they could truly lead wherever they are, whether it's a church or an organization, a family, a neighborhood thing that you

You would help them lead like the person you have created them to be. May they see over time some amazing changes that are just, they just fill you up with joy and they fill them up with joy. God, I pray that we can share some of these stories even. So I pray your blessing on 2026. ask you to lead and to guide your church for your glory in Jesus' name. Amen. Have a great week guys. We'll talk to you soon.