From Addiction to Purpose - A Leader's Journey with Steve "Moby" Leitch

In this engaging interview, Steve "Moby" Leitch shares his personal journey from addiction to faith, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, self-care, and purpose in leadership. Discover practical insights for pastors and leaders to live intentionally, serve effectively, and foster community through vulnerability and spiritual discipline.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to the Church Talk Project today with just Jason. Rob is tied up with family affairs. And so you're stuck with me, but I do have a guest, so you don't have to listen to me drone on for uh minutes upon minutes. But instead, I do have an uh uh just uh really excited to have this guest today. We're gonna talk about a lot of different stuff, but primarily I'm just excited to have this conversation and actually hit record before we have it. I don't know what everyone's been up to over the last you know week or so, but we are excited that we have celebrated our 200th episode. We've hit our 10,000th download, and uh we're just excited to see some some momentum going. If you have not yet uh tuned into or checked out the YouTube channel, there are constantly things being updated there, and it's honestly it's it's brand new. Like it just went live a couple weeks ago, and so we're dripping episodes uh constantly and and trying to produce some more uh more content, just honestly to help you and to connect with you. Because our mission statement and has been since day one is to engage equipment, encourage pastors and leaders around the world. So we are excited to do that. Uh, without further ado, though, I want to introduce my guest that I'm had a couple of conversations with, but now we get to have one that everyone else can listen into. I have with me Steve Leach, and and you have the name Moby in quotes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As you is that your nickname, I would assume. That is my grandpa name.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Your grandpa name. Yeah, man. We've got two granddaughters, three oh my gosh, three grandsons. Because one wow. Uh Walt just arrived a few weeks ago. I was like, am I getting my numbers right? A number four grand, so number four grandson is on the way in the next couple months. So six grandchildren. Um, my bride, Kelly, is Mamie, and I'm Moby. And uh Moby comes from my love for the ocean and all things water. Yeah. Hopefully it's not because of my my body shape, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Oh man, I love that. See, and and I'm a poppy. So maybe I should start putting that in in my name with my two little grandsons.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Well, I you know, I I I won't lie, I I saw an opportunity and I was like, you know, if I put everything online, because it's been over three years now, as Steve Moby Leach, I can guarantee there's never going to be another Steve Moby Leach online. But there might be a Steve Leach. So I uh yeah, I I went for the I went for the marketing. Can't lie.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

I love it. I I have no problem with that whatsoever. Uh you know, Steve Moby Leach uh is even the the website, Steve Mobyleeach.net. If anybody wants to find out more about the different things you do and all the the ways you can connect, there's a great place to start. Maybe let's just start with that. I because you and I kind of got connected through a third party. It's not like I ran across you or you ran across me. Tell me a little bit about like what you do and and you've got an amazing story. So let's just go with that and see where see where things go.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Okay, what do I do? Well, primarily, I mean my goal is always to uh to share Jesus, the gospel through mentorship, through ultra-marathon swimming, and uh through speaking, obviously, coaching as well. And I've kind of someone said to me the other day, it was really interesting, they said, Man, Steve, you do so many different things. And I was like, it looks like that, but it's actually not because it's all just rooted in mentorship. Everything just spawns from mentorship. So when that's your your DNA, that's when you're base level, then you know, it's very easy to add on a coaching client or add on a speaking engagement or add on because it's always coming from mentorship, discipleship, helping people really find hope, get unstuck. And uh we were just talking about a few minutes ago, creating a new life. And you know, it talks about creating a new life in Christ, creating a new life in Christ and creating new habits, new, new systems so you can you can grow, you can, you can live, you can learn, and you can lead, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

I I love it because I'm I'm just thinking of all the the pastors and and lead church leaders, and really leaders that aren't in churches, I know, uh l listen in to these conversations. And that idea of number one, understanding that really what I do is is one thing, it just expresses itself in a variety of ways. I think that's really important for people to understand, especially pastors, because I I mean, 30 plus years leading the local church, I I I tried to do everything, you know, I wanted to be good at everything and it just about killed me, uh, which is, you know, the normal story. And yet when I really start to understand now what I'm growing into is how to do one thing well and then help, you know, basically everything I do grows out of that. But then I also build systems and structures around me that help accomplish the other things that do need to be done, but they can be done through this process. And I wonder if you were talking to a pastor who you know is saying, Hey, I just, well, you know, I I I'm dealing with all these people, and I'm wondering what are some things that I should be thinking about when I've got these people come to me with their problems and just life and you know, all that. Because that you do, and I want to get to your backstory in just a second, but I I I I want to start start there. How would you talk to a pastor?

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Super interesting. So like pastors, you know, carry a lot of weight, right? So number one, is it really your calling? There's pastors who are meant for the people, and there's pastors who are meant for teaching. Right? And I but it used to be the pastor did the teaching and the people. And you know, and and I think there's some great teachers who aren't always great with people because it's not their calling, but then there's some that are great with people that are aren't always great teachers. So, you know, I really understand your calling there, but pastors carry a lot of weight because they're they're taking on other people's, you know, other people's burdens. So number one, I mean the number one thing is it is not your job to save them. That is Jesus, that is the Holy Spirit, that is God. You are a conduit. You you cannot you cannot force, coerce, you know, for so saying you can lead a horse to water. It's it's you you're just a conduit for Christ. And not just, but you are a conduit for Christ, right? The other thing is you cannot pour from that empty cup, like your spiritual, physical, and relational disciplines are so important, just as important as anybody else who's in the people business, whether it's hospitality, whether it's sales, whether it's you know, whatever. So you you need to be spiritually connected every day in prayer, journaling, quiet times, reading, you know, like that really growing the person in Christ, right? Then physically taking care of yourself. And this is, I see a lot of pastors who do not take care of themselves physically because they're I'm too burned out, I'm too tired, I'm everybody's taking, well, you know what? It's not working. So let's try something different and let's take care of your health. Because if you have more health, you have more energy, you can you're leaning on the Lord's, you know, you're sleeping better, all the eating better, hydrating. I mean, I'm gonna get controversial here. I know it's Christ's chicken, but eating Chick-fil-A is not gonna get you closer to heaven, okay? So let's just say that. And then also relationally, you know, like I grew up a son of evangelist, a lot of um, I've been around a lot of pastors' kids, evangelist kids, things like that. And there's always this tension between like, is is your are you out saving everybody else and not taking care of your family? So you gotta make sure you're really connected to your family and serving from the house out, not the out bringing the table scraps home. And and it and that's just missional, right? You know, I d we even did a talk gosh a couple years ago now, oh two years in November, at a the missions conference for um Baptist Southern Convention in South Carolina. And I was talking like your hobbies are your mission. Just because when you're on mission trips and things like that, and you're a missions pastor, but your hobbies are too. Like do things that you enjoy so you can bring non-Christians around or bring people around so you can share that time and connect, and you're you're enjoying life as well, right? And that's kind of what I did with outrage marathon swimming, is like I love swimming. So I made it so I can serve other people through fundraising, but also sharing the gospel, sharing in prayer requests. I mean, on any daily basis, I can be getting texts from around the world with like, hey, can you pray for this? But on the flip side of that, I'm able to say, Hey, can you pray for me?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

You know? Yeah, that's great. And and I think that sometimes pastors don't feel like I would imagine they feel like they can't reach out to other people and say, hey, I'm praying for you, but just so you know, could you be praying for this for me? Because they probably feel like there's a lot of facade you gotta put on. And that's that's the third point here is like don't put on a facade. The messier you are, the messier you are as a pastor, the better. Because then people can relate to you. Like, your mess is your mission. You're not perfect. We're not expecting you to be perfect. If you were, you'd be Jesus. You're not. So like please just drop the drop the mask, drop the perfection, and you know, people will talk no matter what. So let them. Well, you know?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

So yeah, I so what I'm I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

I just said it was on there, so you did, you did.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

No, but it was all good. That's the thing. I I'm sensing though that this conviction of these things comes out of your own personal experience. Like you you didn't read a book and then just decide all these things. I can tell by the way you're you're saying it that this grew out of a personal experience. Do you do you mind telling a little bit of your story as to you know why this bubbled up like this?

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah, sure. You know, growing up son of an evangelist, I in the 80s, I mean, he my dad was an incredible evangelist. Worked, you know, I went to Moody Bible instead in 1966. He's alumni of the year in 2011, did a lot of stuff with Billy Graham, was all over the world, you know, like just a really great guy. You know, I I grew up around the Luis Palau's and the Billy Graham's. And and I would, you know, growing up in the church in the 80s in Scotland, which is where I'm from, everybody was still dressed up back then. And uh the Christians were not having as much fun as the non-Christians. And every all the Christians seemed perfect, and I felt dirty and empty inside. And I didn't know how to communicate that. I didn't know how to share that, and I didn't really feel like you could share that in church environments back in the 80s. So I grew up very um stunted in communication and to be able to express what I'm going through and have so and I've really had to work through a lot of that, which which led to me getting addicted to drugs and alcohol and managing it for a long time until about 36 years old, until it just imploded. And and that's when it was like, okay, I am, I am at uh there's a rock bottom, and I'm at the one below that, maybe the one below that. And I just remember saying, Okay, Lord, I have tried to do this myself, my way. Um, I'm gonna I I just I know you're there. I've I've felt you before, like I know your presence, I know you love me, you've saved me from so many situations, but now I'm like, I want to trust you. And that's what he said. He said, Trust me. And I was like, okay. But that didn't really start an easy road. Because you're dealing with 20 years worth of of mess, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

You don't you don't undo that in one night.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

You don't undo that in n you don't undo it in nine months. Yeah. I'm I'm still undoing some of it 15 years later. And that's the beauty of process, right? But I uh so I started to work on spiritual habits, then physical, then relational. In the meantime, I was I connected with a great man, Mike Bowden, who had been moody in Trinity and was a church planner in the Czech Republic, and really more into stillness and and and and hearing the Lord and letting things bubble up. And um, our counseling sessions were really interesting. There was like probably not no words spoken for maybe 30 minutes, 45 minutes. And then something would come up and I would say, you know, Mike, I I just I got not I got nothing. And he'd be like, Well, what do you mean you have nothing? He's I said, Well, I've got nothing I can bring to God. And he says, Steve, do you know that God wants to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly? And I was like, Man, he knows everything. He doesn't want to hear me whine or hear me talk about my problems. He goes, Well, what kind of a relationship is that if you're only bringing the good stuff? And I was like, you know, and then so then you're like, okay, well, I've been trying to do headline news life all my life, only bringing people the good stuff. Nobody actually knew the dark, the pain, the insecurities on the inside, on the outside, everything look great, right? So I talk with conviction because I had to believe I'm not the only one in the room that struggles with this. And if I am, then I'm okay. You know, but I've fear listening to this, I'm sure you've struggled with this in some way, shape, or form. And the more we can really lean into the fact that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, the more we're able to share our mess, our mission, our insecurities, everything, like everything. Because that's how, like you said, that's how we connect to people. And the perfect, the perfect person only existed one time on earth. So we need we want to be like him, but we are not. So should so share what we're going through, you know, share your struggles, share your your things. And that so I I worked in all those things, and I really worked on not that my dad was neglectful and my mom was neglectful at home. They weren't, they're very caring, it was a good, good home. My dad was gone a lot, but when he was home, he was on he was on point. And I got to travel the world because and I was in America every summer and Christmas pretty much since I was born, because he's preaching over here. So I got to do really cool stuff, got to go to great camps. And I think the freedom to start going, okay, what do I want my what does God want from me? What do I want my life to look like? What do I want my family to look like? When you get remarried and you're binding a family, you're like, oh my gosh, this is the messiest thing I've ever done. And we did it some of it well and we did some of it really badly. But we apologized a lot and we always tried to serve from the inside out. You know, whether we were successful at that, I don't know. Some would say yes, some would say no. Some kids I'm talking about, but I was always like, hey, be the most gracious to the person you're standing next to, not the person out in the street. But also, you know, you know, make sure you're so used to serving at home that it's second nature outside.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

You know. So a lot of this stuff when I talk about conviction is like I just spent probably like 2010 to 2014, like really deep diving. I was alone for those four years. And I was really deep diving for the for for that time. I mean, even the first year and a half, first year of getting off drugs, I was drinking and smoking it. And I was like, okay, Lord, I don't want to drink, I don't want to smoke. This doesn't make any sense, even though other people in the church are doing it, right? So I'm like, well, if they can do it, I could do it. Well, no, no, I can't. I do it differently because I was trying to escape, right? So I I came up with this thing where I prayed three times today. Um, Lord, I want to wake up, I want to be a non-drinker, and non-smoker. And I put a red X in my calendar every night for every day. I did it. And I went pretty close to 90 days and woke up after my birthday one year, and I was like, oh my gosh. Thank you, Lord. Like it was I knew it, I could feel it, it was gone. And I've never looked back. And that was a framework I use for coaching now, too. Like, hey, that is a prayer request. And it wasn't don't just pray for one day and expect to be answered. Go months, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah. Rob and I have talked a lot about yeah, we we've talked a lot with various guests, and even just between the two of us, how that one of the hardest parts about serving God and all this is there is no one silver bullet that makes everything better all the time. Like it is an an ongoing process. Yes. And I, you know, I was telling Rob a couple weeks ago, and I just finally hit the point where I said, all right, I gotta actually pay attention to what I'm eating just to be more healthy. I'm not trying to like lose some huge amount of weight, but I definitely don't want to keep going the way I'm going. And so I just did a simple thing with uh, you know, a little app that just you have to track what you eat. And then you, you know, it tells you how many carbs, all the stuff. And, you know, I'm not trying to increase exercise on purpose, although it's happening because I just feel better. But, you know, as I'm doing this, the thing I noticed is, you know, the first day I didn't feel any different. The second day I didn't feel any different. The third day I didn't feel, you know, like it, it was a week before I kind of looked around and was like, you know what? I I feel a little better. I I'm not, I wasn't, you know, but I just I got a little more energy. I'm sleeping a little better, you know, all those things. I don't feel like, you know, my stomach's gonna explode because I'm so bloated from eating all those carbs and you know, all this. It's just like, oh wow. But again, it was not, I didn't just decide for a day. It you have to keep at it. And you have, and it just every day is a new day, a new decision, a new process. And the same thing is true with our walk with Christ, with the way we serve, with the, you know, we can't just say, well, I made that decision once, I'm done. It it's not every day. It's the manna rule cleaning. Yeah, yes. I I I've just been listening to the guy teach on that, the manna. It's funny you bring that up because he's actually teaching on the Lord's Prayer, but give us this day our daily bread, right? And the obviously harkens back to the to the Exodus, but man, can you imagine every night going to bed with absolutely no food and simply having faith that the next morning there would be food out there for you to eat? I I mean, living in America, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

It wasn't what they wanted.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

That is true. Because I mean, the the word manna means what is this? And uh, you know, but that's the thing. You know, I mean, we were enslaved and mistreated, and they like wiped out an entire generation of children, but but we had meat to eat. But we had pots of meat. Exactly. So I it's it is interesting to me though, how we and I'm I'm noticing uh obviously my context is America, so I don't mean to, you know, poo-poo it all the time, but that's just the one I understand because that's where I'm at. And we just tend to have this idea that everything should be easy and we don't want to ever be uncomfortable. And yet years of living that way have given us what we've got, and we're I don't know what when you think of how you help people, you know, you have to incite a little discomfort into their life, right? I mean, you have to at least introduce a little bit and help them manage it. How do you see that playing out with some of your clients and just people that you've you've coached over the years?

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yeah, so I always approach changes and goal setting as a toddler learning how to walk. Okay. So, you know, a baby does not just start walking. You know, so they learn how to roll on their back. That's really kind of the first. That's the tiniest little thing. So if if you're looking at like, I want to get, I want to lose 20 pounds, you're like, okay, well, 20 pounds of what? Water? Fat? Like, what does 20 pounds do? Why it and the reason people say this is just because at marketing, everything marketing out there is like, lose 20, 30 pounds in 30 days, and your life will be different. You know, like like so people are just so programmed, and it's like, well, wait a minute, what what if we actually sat down and said, what if we looked at your life? Like, what does God want from you in your eating? What does God want from you in your goals? What kind of lifestyle does God want you to have? Like praying through these things, and so you're you're kind of like looking at creating a goal that's maybe having a healthy, active lifestyle so I can serve the kingdom, or serve more in youth ministry, or serve our local homeless shelter, you know, like so I have more energy to do that. Okay, so now so now you're anchoring in goal making with feelings-based pool, right? Then you go, what's the what's the smallest thing I can do? You know, and I tell pe people at the beginning of the year always go to the gym, go hammer it out for an hour, hour and a half, they haven't worked out in three months, and they do it for about a week and they're so sore they they don't want to go back, right? Yeah. What if you just showed up for the gym every day for the same time for a week, just walked around, looked at the machine, said hi to some people, and then left. And then the next week, okay, well, I'm gonna go and I'm just gonna go in the treadmill for ten minutes, and I'm gonna make sure I park really far away from the gym and walk into the You see what I'm doing here? Like so you start making these tiny little changes that you build on and build on and build on. Because the bottom line is like we said about addiction, you don't Get to where you were overnight. It took me 20 years to hit my my hand button and I didn't just change it in 90 days. Was my life significantly different? Sure. In a lot of ways it was significantly different. Was everything f fixed? Were the operating systems? Were the br were the brain pathways all reset? No. It took years. Took years. I've still, you know, work through work through stuff all the time. So when I when I'm coaching people, it's like, do you really understand the goal and why and what the goal is? Not just regurgitating something that has been marketed into your brain. And I think that's a great distinction because you know we talk about food, and food is so available in the United States, it is un I mean, here's a funny one. You can't swing a dead cow without getting something to eat, right? I mean, there's there's a drive-thru, there's a gas station, there's ever everywhere. I mean, it is not hard to find, right? But it's not even food anymore. So like what what are we treating our bodies? Like, what are we putting into our bodies? Are we treating them like temples or are we treating them like rundown motels? You know, and what we put into our minds, our bodies, and our souls, you know, you can't in the church, we can't just focus on our our our souls, right? You can. I'm not don't hear me wrong. This is this is nothing about getting to heaven, okay? This is about being a steward of what God's given you, you know, and being a steward of your body, being a steward of your mind. And, you know, I th I think we lose that a lot. I've I've talked on many different topics of addiction. I even preached one time on people being addicted to serving in church, and they're so busy serving, serving, serving, because I'm just doing so much good stuff for the Lord that they don't even have a relationship with the Lord anymore. And they're they're they're not connected to him because they're not spending time with him on a daily basis. They're not praying through everything as they're doing it, you know. They're not praying before meetings or praying before the they're just they're going, going, going because they've got so used to serving. And uh and if you haven't seen it, forgive me. But I've been in many churches and I've s I've seen it where people are so on their task that they can't see the people in front of them.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah, I so I I'm I'm actually working on a a book that that I I preached a sermon series 15 years ago that and I've just been working on stuff and whatever, and and uh I I'm it's interesting because the way you just described that I literally just finished writing a chapter that's called The Huts of Righteousness. And the idea of the book is that God is is pursuing us and we keep throwing out these defenses to keeping at arm's length. It's not about salvation. This is about intimacy with God, this is about living the life that He got and and the idea of a castle and all that stuff where they would put these villages out there that the marauders would have to get through before they'd get to the castle, and the villagers could run to safety in the castle, but the huts would kind of delay the marauders or the invading army, and maybe they'd get enough there they'd be satisfied and just leave. And so often in our own life, we do these good things and say, see God, I'm I'm I'm serving in the nursery once a week. I'm doing this discipleship group, I'm doing you know, all these things. So see, God, you should like me. Don't worry about my heart. Don't worry about actually changing me. Because see, I'm I'm I'm doing fine. And and I just feel like pastors get caught in that vicious cycle way more than we care to admit.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah, and I wouldn't just say pastors, I say it's everybody. I know it's everybody, but my mainly the people who listen are pastors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't I don't want to single pastors out. I I I know a lot of people listening, but it's it's like I want you to know you're not alone. That's really what I'm trying to say. Yes. You know, like because uh whether we like it or not, there's you know, you're there's a self-gratification that can come from serving others. I had a conversation back when I was a chef with uh one of the celebrities I used to cook for, his uh his best friend, Tim said to me one time, he goes, Steve, you know, we've known you a few years, and you would do anything for anyone that could help you. And I was like, Yes. He's like, that's not a good thing. I didn't, you know, and I don't know why what? And he goes, Steve, the best kind of service you can do is for people that can't pay you back in any way, shape, or form. And I was and he's not even a Christian. And I was like, my gosh, like years, years went by. I've given my life to Christ. I'm living on this conversation pops in my head. I'm like, oh my gosh. So it's like, we can do things for people without anything in return. They cannot pay us back, they cannot help, they might not even know our name. When you can do that, that's when you you're maturing in the walk because it's not about you, it's about the kingdom, right? Yes, and uh and it is is that there's always a rub there whether you're a pastor who wants to admit it or not. And and and that I I there is, because there is self-gratification that comes from serving others. Yeah. You feel like you've done I've done so I've done some good.

unknown 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

But that's not true. I mean, he's he said you you get you got your reward right now because you got the applause of people. You got the people saying, way to go, out of boy, you know, and that's not that can't be the motive. It you know, it it may happen. It's not that you don't want it to ever happen, it's just that's not why you're doing what you do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

And it's really hard. I want to acknowledge that. But again, this is this is this goes back to that daily framework of really kind of leaning into the spiritual and physical and relational development every single day so that you're rooted. You're rooted in in kingdom, in the kingdom, in Christ, and things. So you can go out and serve. And are you gonna get it right every single day? No. But you know what? Our hope and our and our our prayer is always that he's um continued it to to live in us and through us so we can be more open and available to serve others, to serve our families, to be more patient with our the people who are under the same roof.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

You know, that's great. I mean, I and these are the things I I love talking about, but it's it is the biggest message takeaway from this conversation right here is like you're just not alone in this. Yes. And I think I think when you're in an elevated position, you feel like you're alone. And so thank you for putting on this podcast where you can have these types of conversations, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah. No, I that is something I'm finding with pastors. You know, I'm working with pastors all over the East Coast, and a lot of them feel like they're alone. They they just, you know, no one else understands. And and they're right in that no one in their congregation may completely understand the pressure that they feel or the weight that they feel of being the pastor of a church. But there are others, and you are never completely alone in that. And there are always people that will are willing to walk with you and to walk alongside you and to support you, and you gotta find those people. And you've gotta I think sometimes we take on that mindset of I've I'm I'm the only one, partially because we just really like being the martyr and the victim because it gives us an excuse. And maybe I'm just talking about myself, you know, maybe no one else feels that way, but I know that's what I did uh multiple times. I wanted to be that victim. Oh, I did so much for Jesus, and Jesus keeps coming back to me saying, I didn't ask you to do anything for me. I said do some stuff with me. And I I just I don't know. I yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Well, that's the classic line of that's the classic line of you're doing it by your strengths, not his.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

You know, like I I did this, you know, like yeah, man, you know, the thing is like if if if you're a pastor and you're feeling alone and you people don't understand you, then go talk to the entrepreneur who owns a business. Yeah. They feel the same way. Go talk to the single mom who's at your church. Go get go talk to the blended family. Oh yeah. Go talk to the addict, and then you're gonna find that you've all got something in common. Every single group feels like no one understands the pressures that they're going through. Every single group.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Because, you know, I've talked to all those groups, and it's the same thing. And this is and this is just what the devil, this is the lie of the devil. It's like you you you can't share this. You've got to keep it because you gotta keep it yourself because people will talk or people will share your and you've got to be the upstanding leader of, you know. Man, are you kidding me? Like, no one thought you were perfect. I sure don't, when I'm looking at my pastors. Yeah, yeah. I sure don't look in the mirror and think I'm perfect. Why would I think they they're perfect? It's kind of like saying trust your government. Give me a break. Like, you know, like who comes up with this stuff? Like, who if if the church is full of sinners then it's full of liars. So if the government's full of non-Christians and some Christians, then it's still full of liars. So if we can't if we can't if we can't trust everybody in our church, how are we gonna trust everybody in our government? I you know, these are the things like we just have to get better at having conversations, transparent conversations, where we say, you know what, Lord, I'm taking off the mask. I'm struggling. And you know what? If that pat if you as a pastor did that with a single mom or in a group, in a group and an entrepreneur and a man working a uh or a husband and a or a wife working a two jobs to support their families, and or and a family blind. And if you all sat in a room and said, you know what, I feel like I'm all alone, and here's why I'm struggling, it might all be different, but I guarantee you'd find a common thread that you can tug on, that you can tug on. And then you can also say, you know what, that must be really hard. Can I pray for you? And then all of a sudden you've got people praying in different situations, saying, you know what, and this is this is where community gets formed, right? This says, Oh, I see you, I see you, I see you. That's what Jesus said all the time, I see you, not go hide and try and be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah, and and that does require some vulnerability, right? I mean, that that there's a risk. I may open up and say, Wow, I you know, here's I am struggling with something, and someone may use that against me at some point. Let them let them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

It says more about that person than you absolutely. You know, but you've got to you've got to have that confidence though.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah. Well, and that's hard, but that's why you need some other people around you who won't use it again. Like they are they are there to say, I got your back, I know you know what's going on, and and I I'm gonna help you have the confidence to step out. Let me ask you one question before we wrap up, and and and maybe it's it's a loaded question, I don't know. But what hope so I'm gonna ask it anyway. After everything that you've been through, you know, in in your life and and then all the experiences that you have, what does success look like to you?

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Success is simply doing what Jesus asked me to do. Tried to design my life and what I wanted from it and failed miserably. And the more I've uh gone, okay, what do you want from me? What'd you want from me? What do you want from me? Doors seem to open. But but the thing is, just success is really just sharing the hope of Christ, right? I get to swim some of the, I've got to swim the last three years, some of the hardest channels in the world, and he has been there with me, teaching me, giving me lessons, giving me opportunities to pray for others, giving some harrowing moments where I'm like, I am broken down to nothing. Do I still like this person that's got nothing, really nothing left to offer? Am I who am I at the core when I'm when I'm at ground zero physically, you know? And uh so success is is is loving God, loving others, and helping people see that, you know, I I steal my dad's line all the time. God created you for a purpose, do not miss it. You know, and my add-on to that is God only created one of you, act accordingly, you know. He's he's not asking you to be like everybody else. And and and that is success for me when when I am deeply rooted in the fact that God created me for my purpose, not yours. He didn't create you for mine, he created us all with different skills and talents to serve him, serve the kingdom, serve others, and and really use that. And it's okay, it's okay to mess up. You're you're gonna you're gonna fail.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah, what what I love about that too is as pastors and leaders, uh not only then if we become all that God has called us to be, which which simply means leaning into that purpose, that calling, that you know, that then empowers us to help other people become all they got, you know, and and in and really encourage them to do the same thing because we were saying, hey, we took the risk and it was worth it. We'll we'll help you through the process. I was talking about the guy, author from years ago, his name is Reggie McNeil, but we we were we were chatting about something and he said, you know, discipleship, it's really just helping people grow into their own skin. And I was like, I like that, you know, like that that's what that's our calling is to make disciples, which means, man, help people become all that God called them to be, and then let them be that. Yeah, you know, and it sounds like you know, it it took some it took a little bit of a beat down, but you've you've kind of reached that point of going, hey, this is who God called me to be. And and I'm just gonna keep working on becoming that. Yeah. And you know, the old progress over perfection, right? Uh is every day just make that's you know, and it's for sure. That's yeah. Well, let's end with this question. Then as you look out and all the things that you're doing, the people you're working with, uh, what gives you hope today?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

You know, I I go back to this prayer I had when I was swimming the Kawihi Channel uh from Malacai Oahu's middle of the night. I had been I'd been stung by Portuguese man of wars, been sick for about two hours because the waves are so big, got electrocuted by a shark shield on the back of a kayak. You know, I am just absolutely struggling. And uh I said to the Lord, I was like, hey Lord, I on the island play prayed in Jesus' name for you to calm the seas and give me a fast crossing. And uh and it was as plain as day, the Lord said, I never promised to calm the seas just because you asked in my name, but I did I do promise to calm you in the seas. And I was like, you know, I'm just gonna carry that for the rest of my life. Like, no matter what's happening, no matter what hard stuff I'm going through, this external, I know that I can keep my eyes on Christ, and I might not do it and I'll start sinking like Peter, but I, you know, I know he's going to grab my hand, but my goal is to constantly keep my eyes on him.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

That is really I love that.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

That's really where the crux is keeping my eyes on Jesus. And it's easier said than done.

unknown 37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Amen to that. Well, thank you, Steve, for taking uh some time for this conversation. I really do appreciate it. And uh I again we'll put a link to your website and so forth in the show notes so people can find you. Uh and and you know, if they go to steve mobilech.net, that's the easiest way to find you. And and you've got uh uh the unbreakable mindset playbook that I know they can download for free. Um, and there's some other great tools there. So I I appreciate you. I appreciate your story. Like I, you know, it's just so much fun to hear the story of other people. So, man, blessings to you and your family.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

They will love a good rags to Richie story, don't I? I I'm like, it's a testimony builder.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yes, yes, there you go. That's I I got a lot of those right now in my life. Well, to our listeners, thank you so much for listening in this week. Uh, we we love you, we are cheering for you and would love to hear from you. So give us uh give us an email or a chat or something so that we can uh know what's going on in your life, how we might help you and serve you. Check out the website as we continue to bring updates and uh try to find tools and resources to help you. Have an amazing week, and we'll talk to you next week.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Thanks for joining us today at the Church Talk Podcast. We hope the conversation encouraged and challenged you. We would love to hear from you. Email your questions or comments to Jason at Church Talkproject.com. The Church Talk Podcast with Rob and Jason is brought to you by the Church Talk Project. We work to engage, equip, and encourage pastors and church leaders around the world. Thanks for listening.