Menopause Rage EXPOSED- What's REALLY Behind Your Anger

Are you feeling angrier, more irritable, or more emotionally overwhelmed during perimenopause or menopause? You’re not alone — and you’re not “losing it.”

In this episode, we explore why menopausal rage can feel so intense, especially for highly sensitive women and women with a history of trauma.

This is a deeply compassionate, trauma-informed conversation about what’s really happening in your brain, body, and nervous system during the menopausal transition.

In This Video, You’ll Learn:

•    Why sudden anger and irritability are common in perimenopause & menopause
•    How hormonal changes impact your nervous system and emotional regulation
•.   Why highly sensitive women (HSPs) feel menopausal rage more intensely
•    How past trauma can resurface during the midlife transition
•.   The hidden wisdom behind midlife anger — and what it’s trying to tell you
•    Calming, trauma-informed tools to navigate emotional overwhelm

This Episode is for you if:

• You’re in perimenopause or menopause
• You’re feeling more irritable, reactive, or overstimulated
• You identify as a highly sensitive woman
• You’ve experienced trauma or long-term stress
• You’re seeking understanding instead of shame
• You want to feel grounded, empowered, and supported during this transition

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Menopausal Rage
02:50 Understanding Menopausal Anger
05:27 The Role of Trauma in Anger
08:10 Healing Through Anger
11:15 The Impact of Ancestral Trauma
13:44 Transforming Anger into Advocacy
16:30 Navigating Relationships and Anger
19:13 The Gift of Menopause
22:08 Empowerment Through Anger
25:08 The Shift from Personal to Collective Anger
27:46 Finding Purpose in Anger
30:59 The Importance of Boundaries
33:46 Community and Connection
36:26 Conclusion and Reflection

Links

To watch episodes on Esther's YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@compassionateconversations441

www.estherkane.com

Subscribe to my newsletter to receive either of these for FREE:10 Tips for Getting Rid of Relationships That Drain Your Energy or the 6-part audio program, Making Peace With Food and Our Bodies:

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Esther Kane, MSW, RCC

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01.87)

Today I have a very special guest on the podcast, Maryanne Pope, who is my dear friend and writer and just amazing woman. We are going to talk about, This is a follow up by the way, in case you didn't check out the episode on why it's good for women to get angry. Watch that one. This is, I've been waiting with bated breath to do this with Maryanne because we have had some zinger conversations about menopausal rage and It's not just rage. It's like blind fury. We were just saying how we thought you know so many women basically if you're lucky enough to get old enough You're going to go through menopause and you can't outwit it. I Was watching Oprah Winfrey who has a whole bunch of things on menopause now. She's helping unearth the mysteries in menopause. But I thought it would be a really good discussion to talk about why we get so irritable and angry during the menopausal transition. so consider, So menopause technically is one year from the day you had your last period, then you are in menopause. And so I am post-menopausal. It's been... 

I think almost two years since I had a period. Maryanne, where are you at? 

Speaker 2 (01:33.398)

I would say I'm probably a good 18 months since the last period. 

Speaker 1 (01:37.23)

Okay, so yes, so we're definitely post menopausal both of us. and So I yeah, I just feel like Menopause I went through a horrible time and news. I'll talk about that a little bit more but You know, I do appreciate Oprah Thank You Oprah for attempting to unearth the mysteries of menopause. 

 I watched her ABC special on menopause recently and she had a neurologist talk about mental health issues that can arise during this time of life. But what shocked me is there was absolutely no discussion about why women got depressed and angry at this time of life and I got really pissed off. They kept coming back to this suggestion basically that we should take hormone replacement therapy to help all of our menopausal symptoms and that was a lot of the answer to things. And they didn't have a therapist on to talk about the nuance of what women have been through in their lives and the effects of trauma, you know, and other things that they've experienced and why they might be angry at this stage. So to answer the question, why are we doing this episode today? I, like so many women, I had a horrific experience during the menopausal transition. I was hospitalized twice for catatonic depression and it was awful, worst time of my life. And I want to help other women avoid the mostly needless suffering that I went through. And there is another video you can watch. I talked to another therapist about highly sensitive women and the menopausal transition. You might get a lot out of that. I talk more about my story in there. And... 

My favorite expert on this topic, and this is still timely, even though it was written a while ago, is Christianne Northrup. I love her. I've been reading her since I was probably in my early 20s. She wrote Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom. That was the first book that I read of hers. And she wrote this other book that was probably 20 years ago, but it's still so timely, called The Wisdom of Menopause. 

 And I want to begin this discussion by quoting her wisdom about why women get so angry during this time of life from that wonderful book. And if you don't have it, go out and get it. I find it used very cheap in lots of stores. So this is from the section called Embracing the Message Behind Our Menopausal Anger. So it's little snippets from there. So this is Christiane Northrup. Our midlife bodies and brains fully support our ability to experience and express anger with a clarity not possible prior to midlife. Changing hormone levels may help to bring up old memories accompanied by strong emotions, especially anger. This is not to say the anger is caused by hormonal change. Rather, it means that the hormonal changes simply facilitate remembering and clearing up unfinished business. Anger in women has a bad rap in general, unless that anger arises in the service of others. This probably counts for the fact that although anger has been studied exhaustively in men, the gender in which it is acceptable, the only kind of female anger that has received a great deal of study is maternal anger, the function of which is to protect a child who is threatened.  It is also culturally acceptable for women to express their personal anger by fighting for social justice, which too often becomes a platform for releasing personal anger. Personal is political. Though we're socialized to believe that our anger arises from observing the injustice done to others, the political is always personal. Our anger is ultimately about ourselves and its energy is always urging us towards self-actualization. This part I love. We need to claim our anger, especially during midlife. It can play an important role in improving the quality of our lives and our health. It is a powerful signal from our inner wisdom, one we should learn to listen to and act on. If, before menopause, a woman hasn't learned to identify her anger, then what is it telling her, and this describes many women, menopause is her best remaining opportunity to do so. At perimenopause, the rewiring of her brain makes her vision clearer and her motivation is easier to identify. 

Using anger as a catalyst for positive change of growth is always liberating. If emotional issues in our lives are not attended to, if our midlife losses are not fully grieved and released, if in other words, we don't listen to our anger and take action, we may end up with full-blown depression, which is sometimes described as anger turned inward. That part makes me want to cry. 

Because that is exactly what happened to me. I was in a catatonic depression depression That they could not get me out of twice and anger turned inward. What came out of that, even though was so awful, and my darling friend, Maryanne, who's sitting with me here, helped me through it, thank you, is that there was so much trauma underneath my own suffering. I was depressed. I was now working with somatic therapist. It's called a dorsal vagal shutdown. That's what happened to me. Dorsal vagal shutdown is what an animal does when they can't fight, they can't flee, and it just freezes and plays dead. And that's what I had to do to survive my childhood. And that makes sense now. But what did they do? They put me on medications. They did ECT on me. 

 And I just can't believe that that was the first, those were the first things they did. Nobody asked me about my childhood. There was no therapy. There was no body connection. , so for all of you, if you've had a similar journey, know, suicidal depression where you're, and just complete shutdown. You don't have to go that route. I think I was at a stage where I couldn't get out of it, maybe without those things. I'm not saying they did the wrong things. I just feel really sad for myself that I had to go there and that that's what it took to come back home to myself and to reclaim my body and my nervous system. And now I know that I was abused as a child and I was angry, but I turned it towards myself. So in my teens, I nearly died of an eating disorder and into my early 20s. Thank God I didn't. And then I struggled with anxiety and I'm putting air quotes if you're just listening to this. And I was medicated. You know, that's the answer is they just want to medicate you. If you go to a doctor and you say, I'm having anxiety, you know, or I'm feeling really low. We've got these pills. You know, they just, They give them out like candy. And I'm not saying that there's not a time and a place for medication. I'm not saying that because I know there is, and especially being a therapist for 27 years, I've seen a lot of those situations. And I was one of those people during these last two horrible episodes, but it's one tiny piece of the puzzle. And it's not going to do the root cause healing. For me, the pieces that I've put together and the reason I'm doing this podcast and why I'm so passionate about helping highly sensitive people is I think we are so misunderstood, misdiagnosed, put on medications that we may or may not need. We definitely don't need them for life in a lot of cases, which is what they'll tell you. Once you're on it, you've got be on it for life. I've learned that that is not true. 

 So being highly sensitive- our nervous systems, we are more prone to anxiety and depression. So if you're woman listening to this and you're going through menopause or the perimenopausal stage, whatever phase it is of, or you're preparing to go through this stage of life, listen up. I don't want you to go through what I went through. I will do anything to prevent other women to go through what I went through. It was hell. It was absolute hell. 

 I can't believe I'm here. And I made it. I guess I can now because I know who I am and I know what I'm made of. I'm fucking amazing. And I am so strong. And so I just, you know, want to tell you that I used to stuff my anger down and feel sad and depressed. there's a book, another book I was reading. Yeah, it was called Anger Becomes Her. 

Speaker 2 (11:50.51)

Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (12:08.372)

And sorry I don't have the reference right in front of me. But she was saying that women often go to sadness when they're actually angry. Because we're taught as women it's not okay to be angry, but you can be sad. You can feel sad, right? And that's a place we often go to. And that's what I did. I stuffed it down, stuffed it down. There was so much stuffing. And I blamed myself when someone else hurt me or let me down instead of being angry at them and holding them accountable. And now I am at a place with my mother here coming to Toronto. I'm healing. I came to Toronto for a month, of course to help my mother, but also to save myself and to honor the little girl in me who was so traumatized here in Toronto. This is where it all happened for me and I ran away at 25. I moved to BC and I just felt like I had to save my life at the time. 

 And I think I did, I think I did psychologically save myself. But now at 54 and having gone through the hell I went through, the sort of, I think what happens in menopause is like Christiane Northrup says, is that all of your emotional unfinished business, all of the traumas that you haven't dealt with, they're all going to bubble up. Because this is a time, and listen to this, women. 

This is a time to blow that shit up so that you power forward into the best part of your life. Right, Ma? This is the best part of life. And I'm now on the other side. And it is a beautiful thing. I also want to talk about ancestral trauma. My grandmother was. There were 36 relatives in her family. They all lived in the same building, they were very well off in Riga, Latvia.  And they had four apartments. It was four families. You know, they were aunts, uncles, cousins. They all lived in this beautiful, idyllic life. And my great grandfather was an entrepreneur and businesswoman, businessman, and he was working all over Europe and he saw what Hitler was doing. So he came back and he said, we've all got to go. And the three other families didn't believe it because they were very well off living a wonderful life. Just, you know, having a wonderful time. had an ideal situation and they wouldn't go. So my great grandfather saved his family. And the night before they were leaving to escape to Canada, which took over a year and a half, I believe, at least a year. My sister's, my grandmother's oldest sister, they found her dead and she was 18. And they think it was a suicide because she was going to become a doctor in a different part of Europe and she wasn't going to be with her family. 

 So my grandmother who is 15 years old lost all her cousins, aunts, uncles, and her sister, her older sister. She was 15. And they got on the Siberian railway and escaped being murdered. The rest of our family were murdered. And we found out how recently, and I won't share that, but it's all, it's horrific. 

So. You know, that's an example of my ancestors trauma. We know now through epigenetics, it's in our DNA. I was carrying generations of anti-Semitism. I mean, not just the Holocaust, but let's just face it, Jews have not had an easy time. And now it's, I'm horrified at what's happening now. I feel like I'm scared to be Jewish again. I've never had that experience in my lifetime until now. So. 

 This is thing, and I know all of you listening, everybody has trauma, and we all have our different versions of it, and you really have to face that stuff at this time and work with someone, and I cannot recommend somatic therapy enough. I'm not trained as a somatic therapist, well, I've been partially trained to do somatic therapy with trauma, but I mostly was taught to do Cognitive behavioral therapy and narrative and family systems therapy. And it's all like in the head. And I could understand the trauma in my family and generations. And I work with people, but the thing is trauma is held in the body. It's literally living in the cells of your body. And it doesn't go away unless you can release it out of the body with someone who's incredibly skilled at helping you do that. 

And I have, I studied one type of trauma therapy. did a full year of training and it is called Sensorimotor Psychotherapy. And, and that, that was good, but it didn't take me all the way. the therapy that works has worked for me. That is completely freeing me of the trauma from my past. Like I really feel like there's hardly anything left now in my body is called Somatic Experiencing Peter Levine. 

 I think believe he's 83 years old and he's just written his latest book. It's called An Autobiography of Trauma and it's about his own trauma. And it's unbelievable. And he just remember Just to let you give you a sense of this, he's in his eighties. He's a therapist, brilliant guy, been working with trauma for over 50 years. He's just started to remember some severe trauma and he outlines that in the book, that he experienced when he was 15. 

So this stuff takes time, but if I can urge you to not suffer as long as I suffered, I mean, in some ways, Maryanne you might agree that Maryanne and I are very spiritual. We both believe that in timing, in the universe's timing, I guess I wasn't ready to really face this stuff until my late 40s, early 50s. I became a therapist at 25, which is pretty damn young. I was a wise old soul though I was highly sensitive and I think I was a good therapist, but I think I'm a different, better therapist now because I believe I can only take my clients to the places I have gone myself. I didn't think I had that many more places to go, but my, was I wrong. 

 So wrong. And the woman that I see for therapy, she's not even a psychotherapist. She's a physiotherapist, but she's, I call her the body whisperer. She is the most skilled human in this area. Just to put it in perspective, I've been a therapist, you know, very long time. I feel stupid when I'm with her. I feel like, because her expertise, is completely out of my range of what I've learned and done and I don't know how to even be a client, you know? So basically what she does is she tells me to shut up. I mean, she's very sweet about it, but because I have a blah blah and just be in the body, know, track sensations. And I just can't believe the life I have now. I barely have any anxiety now. 

 And yeah, it's just incredible. And for me personally, I don't feel that I need to take medication at this stage, which I thought I was on it for life. I have more peace. I know who I am. I don't take shit from anybody. And I speak up. Isn't that the magic? I'm going to let Maryanne take over in a second, but yeah. 

I just want, just, for those of you that aren't on the other side, Maryanne and I are on the other side. I feel like there's this, it's like a, initiation almost. I felt like, you know, you pay the piper. There's this whole horrible thing that has to happen. You know, when, you know, that sort of metaphor of the Phoenix rising, a Phoenix rising from the ashes, the ashes to me are my previous life and all the trauma. I had to burn that shit to the ground. Like literally burn it in order for the phoenix to rise and my goodness there is so much waiting for me that was so much better than I ever could have dreamed of and it just keeps happening. All these gifts. 

So that's enough from me but Maryanne let's... tell us, we want to hear your story about the role anger has played in your life. And we've had some, think incredibly comical situations where we've been together or stories we've told each other, but I just couldn't stop laughing. You've told me some doozies that just, yeah. So what has it been like for you? What's the role of anger in your life? Because I think you and I were both raised to be good girls and to be nice. 

 And I'm not sure if we're doing, I don't think we're doing that anymore, are we? 

Speaker 2 (22:48.494)

No, I don't think we're doing that anymore. But you know, it is a perfect segue to talk about mothers at the moment, actually, because you have a tiger of a mother and I had a tiger of a mother. you know, yeah, I was raised to be nice. I was taught how to stand my ground and stuff. But my mom, she could get so angry, she would fly off the hook. Like she always said, Oh, it's my Irish temper. I'm like, Oh my God, that's not acceptable. 

 She would be so angry, she was tough as nails and stuff. But I learned though that I could be angry if I want, but I was going to get in trouble. So it's really interesting because I did not grow up with a mother who demonstrated to me that you don't get angry. I saw a very strong independent single mom constantly getting angry, constantly fighting. 

Speaker 1 (23:42.01)

I just have to say did I didn't say much about my mother but my mother? We're both five one and a half my mother used to be the most terrifying person, I mean to everybody men were terrified everybody was scared of my mother. Yeah 

Speaker 2 (23:56.12)

Well, and it is interesting. then I think that though, that's often what happens is women who have super strong mothers who aren't afraid to be angry. We often do have to be a little bit quiet because we know what it's like to be on the other side of that raft. Very close. We're in the tiger's den. 

Speaker 1 (24:09.315)

What I mean. 

Speaker 1 (24:11.918)

And if you've been on the receiving end of a mother, and we were both highly sensitive little girls, right? So I was, my mother terrified me. I mean, I was scared shitless of my mother and still am to some degree. Even though she has no voice now, she literally can't talk. So I have to speak for her. But yeah, it's, mean, I also see it as like, we can't be angry because that role was taken. 

Speaker 2 (24:30.326)

Literally, yes. 

Speaker 1 (24:40.972)

Right? So we had to be something else. I just shoved it all down and had an eating disorder. 

Speaker 2 (24:47.246)

It's just learn the path of least resistance is much easier. You know what mean? Like, sure, I could I know I know how to fight. My mom demonstrated that. my god. Yeah, absolutely. But but then it was just I didn't like to be on the receiving end of that. So it's sort of it's I thought it was really interesting that you know, that's another, you know, common commonality that we have. But but anyways, back to your question about, you know, the anger that the role that anger has played in my life. Well, it is 

Okay, so my situation, don't know, people may not know, but I'll just explain briefly, because I had a huge run in with anger at the age of 32. So I kind of had to learn how to handle something that happened to someone I love very much, and had to handle the aftermath of that and a lot of anger that was involved in that. Now anger didn't come right away, but it came fairly soon after. And then 25 years or 20 years later, then 

I hit menopause and then there was still residual angle from other stuff popping up that I had to process. in a weird way, I actually had a lot of emotional and psychological traumatic house cleaning done quite early in life, which a lot of women don't, thank God, a lot of people don't have to go through that, but I did go through it very young. I'll just, shall I? 

Speaker 1 (26:05.141)

real 

Speaker 1 (26:05.383)

quick to people. Yes, what happened? 

Speaker 2 (26:07.822)

Okay, so basically, when I was 32, my husband was a police officer and he went to work one night. And he was stepping from a safe surface to what looked like another safe surface. And he stepped through an unmarked false ceiling because there was no safety railing in place. So he fell through at the back of his head and died of a brain injury. we'd been married to we'd been together for 12 years and married for four years. So and he'd been a police officer for four years. So he's basically you know, month of love. not the love of my life. was he was my my lover, my soulmate, my husband. We've been together since we were 20 right to 32. So that kind of was the huge dischanging thing that my life was humming along one way. And I you know, marriage and babies and all that. 

And then nope, you're widow at 32. Now what are you going to do about it? So there was all the obviously a lot of healing and processing and, know, being an HSP looking back now, I wouldn't have categorized myself at that at the time because it wasn't as common knowledge but definitely an HSP. So I did a lot more reflecting and processing and in deep, deep, healing. My philosophy was I am going to get through the bottom of all this and sorted out. There's a lot of shit I got to figure out. And then I did. and that's great. That took years and years and years, you know, it's not something you just do overnight. but the anger, since this is a podcast about anger, a video about anger, I want to talk about that. So the anger I had in it links into, some of, Northrup's comments beautifully, right? 

Speaker 1 (27:31.48)

You okay? Yeah, sorry. Someone phoned me on Zoom. Sorry, I had that open. 

Speaker 2 (27:36.682)

so talking about talking about anger, you know, I have this personal loss and basically the cause of John's death was because it was an unsafe workplace. So I had a personal loss and a horrific incident that happened to someone that I loved and my life was changed to his life was over way too young. So I worked with the memorial, his police officer friends, and we started the John Petropolis Memorial Fund and we do workplace safety advocacy. So I was able to transform a lot of that personal anger into tackling a societal issue, right? 

Trying to make workplaces safer and raising public awareness about workplace safety issues facing first responders and others workers. So it was interesting, so much anger. had a lot of anger to process that something, you know, it's just a missing safety railing, right? So that's kind of a shitty thing to have to deal with like, man, now my life's changed and his life is over and wow, that just hurts so much. And there's a lot of anger that went with that, but I was able to help transform that anger into positive change and constructive, making community a little bit safer for other people. And that was hugely helpful. 

But it's interesting, right? So then 25 years later, the Memorial Fund is still going strong and we're still doing workplace safety, education and advocacy work. And we're working on this documentary series now. And it's interesting, because I don't have a lot of personal anger anymore. It's gone, it's processed, it's healed. 

 That's the gift of going in deep after a traumatic incident. But in a weird way, and this is linked to Christiane Northrup's comments in there about the political and the personal and anger, is that, you know, in a weird way, because I was impacted originally personally, but now I'm not personally as much skin in the game. Like I'm doing it because I lost someone but so have other lot of other people. We're losing 1000 Canadian workers a year to preventable workplace incidents, either injury or occupational illness. Anyways, my point in all this is that it's interesting, because I don't do the work I do now from anger. I'm still involved with the Memorial Fund, because I think we can make change. 

Sometimes there's a little flare up of anger, because when I see someone else dying, because they got smothered to death in a trench or they got electrocuted or whatever. It's awful and there's a little flare up of anger, but that's not enough to provide, to continue the impetus. I do it because I want to help prevent future incidents happening to other people. I just wanted to talk about that because it's interesting because anger was the huge impetus at the beginning, the personal anger, and then over the years it's shifted and it's like now I do it because I care, I know what it's like and I don't want other people to go that. So it's a little bit more like compassion and empathy now. And I know we can do better as a country. 

Speaker 1 (30:18.872)

When I think I think anger I think is a very important Point to to emphasize here is that anger can be fuel. It's fuel fuel to bring positive change activism You know and to prevent the self needless suffering of others. Yeah 

Speaker 2 (30:37.324)

Yeah. And yeah, absolutely can. But then I'm going to before I go back to the personal anger, I want to talk about because Christiane Northup's and one of her comments, I don't have it in front of me. But you know, it was interesting. It was like she said, basically that you know, the it's all when you're doing good works in the world, it's always a result of personal anger. And, and it made me it paused me to think because I thought, well, okay, the workplace safety that fits. But what about my absolute passion for helping tackle climate change and raising awareness about that and the climate crisis that keeps me up at night that freaks me out says I traveling around the world. 

But you know, we're all in this together and we're all burning up the fossil fuels and there is a way that we can make a shift away from fossil fuels and we have to and that kind of thing bothers me but I don't have any personal reason for that anger other than I care. I care about the future of the planet. Same with the treatment of animals and then the poaching that goes on with these beautiful elephants. Those are just examples of I don't have personal for that, but I still have so much anger when, and again, it links to that injustice, these things that we care about and we want to make a difference in the world. It's interesting. 

 Who cares whether that's personal anger? Who cares where that anger comes from? The point is there's anger in me and I will do exactly what I did and am doing with the memorial fund to transform that. I don't want that to eat me away. I don't want to die knowing that I didn't do a damn thing about issues I care about. I want to do what I can in the way that I can. So some of it's donations, some of it's writings, know what I mean? Raising awareness, whatever it is the point is. Further to your point about my point is that anger is a... 

Beautiful indication that we care deeply about something for a reason and even though we might not know Why is that really our higher purpose? Whatever it is the point is if we care and it makes the world a better place follow that our anger is our fuel. It's a guide 

Well, and also for women, especially, anger usually arises when someone has crossed a boundary. yes. That we didn't know we had. next point. Okay, let's go there girl. 

 So back to menopause. I, for me personally, menopause was like, well, Esther, am I allowed to say the B-I-T-C-H word because I've always been a very nice, friendly person, even when I was going through horrific experiences. And then suddenly I hit perimenopause and I was like, I'm not putting up with shit from anybody. I absolutely had no tolerance. I was irritable. I was turning into a bitch. I was snappish. 

I hated men for a while, no man in my life could do good. I'm like, what is happening? And I realized, my goodness, I am hoping hormonal changes. 

Speaker 1 (33:20.718)

Let's just stop for a second. The word bitch, you know, I was listening to this feminist book today, audio, I listened to a lot of books, I can't remember. It's about women perfectionists, but she said there's no such thing as a resting bitch face for a man. 

Speaker 2 (33:22.51)

Let's stop there. 

Speaker 2 (33:38.048)

No, isn't. 

Speaker 1 (33:40.044)

this bitch thing, you know? Like if we get angry, if we get upset, we're a bitch, you know? Like if a man gets upset and angry, that's, he's just a man. He's standing up for something, a cause. I just want to put that out there. Keep going. 

Speaker 2 (33:55.01)

And that's fair. So it's like, you know, it's true. And for me, though, bitchiness means I'm more snappish and irritable, and I say things and I'm madder all the time than I normally would. So I'm looking and comparing to my old self. But hormone, the hormones were changing. But also, I think it was in Christiane Northrup's excerpt that you know, you'd read to us, there's also...Like it's also these hormones come up and it's actually a perfect time to pay attention to do the house cleaning all that other unfinished business. So for me, I hit a huge patch of menopausal related anger during COVID. That's right when I was going through menopause. And as you know, as my friend, I was dealing with a friend who I had had enough of the relationship toxic. It was unhealthy. 

Speaker 1 (34:46.311)

She was an energy vampire energy vampire 

Speaker 2 (34:49.772)

It was it 

Speaker 2 (34:50.382)

was done and I was just like, I had so much anger and I look back now and I'm like, that friendship had come to its close. I'm glad I wound it. I did the very best I can. I sent her love and healing light and all that stuff. I have no ill will towards her at all. I wish her the very best, but I just couldn't be friends with her anymore. And, and that was a huge period of time for me to go through a lot of anger. And I think that in hindsight as well, too, it was menopause, it was COVID, I was dating a guy and it was not going well. 

All of our freedoms were being taken away. There was the fear about the future, there was so much going on. And then inside our body, right inside my body, you know, I'm not being able to sleep as well. It's the perfect storm. So so much anger. So it was a perfect time to do some house cleaning and get rid of this stuff, this unfinished business because another piece of the puzzle with this is with menopause related angers. 

Yeah, there's all the physiological changes going on in our body, but we're also at a point at 50, 48, 50, 52, whatever. I'm 57 now. Is that I think it's fair to say we all reach a point where we suddenly realize, oh, I'm not 21 anymore. Holy shit. If I'm blessed enough to live to 95, my last 20, 10 to 20 years probably won't be like traveling around the world with a backpack, okay? 

So then all of a sudden I started to look like, my God, like, whoa, I've got 10 to 20 years, good to years left. Now my thinking has since shifted during then and I'm really smartening up and relaxing and I'm like, holy cow, that was a bit intense. But I think that sometimes what happens during menopause is we suddenly realize we got more time behind us than we do ahead. 

And we do not have time for shit- for people who are going to rob us of time and energy and waste our time. We got stuff to do. We've got the mental capacity still. We've got the physical health. We've got the money. We've got everything on our side still. So don't waste my time unless you're going to help me fulfill my goals or I can help you in some constructive way. Like I am not going to sit around listening to people beaking and complaining. I just don't, I haven't got that time. And that's I think what menopause is a gift for as well too. I suddenly realized- I'm not dead yet, but man, man, I can't waste my time. 

Speaker 1 (37:03.706)

My bullshit detector is like right on all this and I just I'm so discerning about the company I keep and I'm just not willing to put up with shitty friendships where basically if someone makes me feel drained or really irritated and pissed off and or Disregulated and just kind of anxious that that's not my person don't want them I don't and as highly sensitive people we need friends we need loved ones, but we  just have to be very discerning about those people. 

And I witnessed for a number of years, you were in that friendship with that woman. I and I spent time with her too. And I thought, dear me, this is, and finally you, you know, and I tried saying things a few times and you were kind of like, yeah. And then you just, but you just, was like this fire got ignited and you were just done. You were, you'd had it. That was it. just. 

Speaker 2 (37:57.39)

It was one too many comments that were hurtful leaving me reeling and I'm like, does this remind me of yes My mom used to do this No, I healed over my mom. I don't need another one. Thank you Yeah, take the good and you just like no you just move on you know, there's yeah Yeah, you only have so much time and again, you know what before you know, but when kids were winding down I do want to say 

Speaker 1 (38:05.048)

Right, right. 

Speaker 1 (38:09.495)

Isn't that amazing? Yeah, that's exactly 

Speaker 2 (38:25.614)

Further to your point about anger, you know, being empowering and it's a good thing, I look at anger as a signal point, a signpost. Like, if I'm angry about something, I can complain, I can vent, I can do a few things like that, that's great. But I now, at the age, again, that's the gift of wisdom and getting a little older, in 57, I'm now like, whoa, whoa, whoa, why am I angry? Why am I really angry? Okay, you're get someone cut off at me or whatever, whatever it is. 

Speaker 1 (38:51.98)

and stop. 

Speaker 2 (38:55.214)

But is there something more there? And I take the time to go deep because I know now that those difficult emotions such as anger are indicators that I care deeply about something. Someone's crossed my boundary, like you say, something needs to be changed. So I don't stuff it down. I don't run from it. I feel it. I let the emotion go through it. And sometimes it passes and sometimes it's like, no, there's something deeper here. I need to pay attention. Anger is a beautiful guide. 

Speaker 1 (39:18.862)

It is, it is. I went for a walk, so while I've been in Toronto, I've been hanging out with women that I went to nursery school with, you know, all different ages. And a woman I got together with yesterday, we literally went from nursery school to up through high school together in the same schools. And our parents were hippies. it was just, we were just talking about our childhoods yesterday and we just looked at each other and we said, how did we survive? 

How did we get here? And we were talking about these deep traumas and we were actually laughing at some of them. And I looked at her, told her one trauma and she laughed and I said, I said, well, I'm glad you can find the humor in it. She said, if we don't, then what the hell are you going to do? And I thought that's a good way of looking at it, know? yeah, and it's just, it's so, and she's highly sensitive and we were talking about that. And I think there's this new awareness. 

 I just feel like the high sensitivity concept now is blossoming and it's out there in the ethers and it's starting to really take off, thank goodness. I'm hoping there will be much more awareness. I would love to write a book someday about highly sensitive women and menopause, the menopausal transition, because I think we experience it quite differently. I just want to say too that when you stop stuffing your anger down and when you release the trauma and all that stuff and you can that that what it does is it allows you to feel all of the other feelings that you couldn't access. Yes. When you're really depressed and really anxious or angry, you can't feel joy, pleasure, relaxation, bliss, awe. You know, those things are unavailable to you because and as humans, I've learned that joy is my birthright. 

 You know, pleasure is my birthright. Relaxation, rest is my birthright. Those were very new concepts to me until recently. And Maryanne Ann, not so much, my god, woman. Maryanne Ann, for those of you watching or listening, has taught me so much about fun, laughter, joy, rest, relaxation. This woman has a hammock in her backyard. She... 

Speaker 2 (41:41.656)

care. 

Speaker 1 (41:42.267)

She's got blankets and pillows everywhere. She has naps in the middle of the day. She just lies down and reads. She's the only person I've ever met. She has a meal and then she lies on the couch. 

 Just relaxes. It's fantastic. It's really... And listen, I mean, you really listen to your body, to the rhythm of your moods, your energy. I think I'm going to do another episode on energy management for HSPs. 

Speaker 2 (42:17.098)

Absolutely. 

Speaker 2 (42:18.178)

Absolutely. It's so important. So important. it's well, yeah, it's it's I mean, my entire day is just linked on and as many people's are. But you know, it's interesting. A lot of people will say to me, wow, you're so lucky to be able to structure your workday around your bio rhythms. And I'm like, I am very lucky. But it's also I make it a priority, right? So and there are there are ways you know, depending on a person's job, I suppose, but it is important. You have to be able to figure out when you've got the most energy and when you need to rest and how to refuel and all that sort of stuff. that'd be that'd be another. So many of your podcasts are fantastic. You just you just keep knocking them out of the ballpark. I love listening to them. 

Speaker 1 (43:00.266)

Thank you. And just for those of you watching or listening, we would love to hear your comments. What are you going through during the menopausal transition? What are your experiences? Could you resonate with what we talked about today? Did anything we talked about help you give you some tips, some ideas, some resonance? have to, you know, we often forget that we are community. We really need community. And I'm trying to build a community for highly-sensitive people, especially highly-sensitive women going through the stage of life. 

So we have to connect with each other and speak out and talk to each other and be honest. And we've done that today in hopes that you will be able to have that courage and freedom as well, because it is a freedom. So thank you, Maryanne. Again, this has been wonderful. You are a big hit. People love you. Thank you. 

Speaker 2 (43:53.998)

Thank you for having me on Esther and thank you for all your incredible work. Absolutely, I've got all these people who are like, oh, they're reading and listening to you. It's unbelievable and myself included. I often binge listen when I'm like on a road trip, I will listen or I'm on a plane or whatever, I'll listen to all your podcasts. Yeah, I'm not a big video person, but I love the auditory and the visual for sure. I mean reading, sorry.

Anyways, you're amazing, so thank you. Thank you, you're such a blessing and I know you're helping millions of us. Thank you. 

Speaker 1 (44:24.482)

Thank you.