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gwunspoken
We know that now more than ever, there is a growing disconnection between parents and their teens, corporates and their employees, and human interactions in general.
This can cause stress, frustration and many arguments within families and the work environment.
gwunspoken looks at the challenges people of all ages have in their relationships with one another and provides experience and advice, allowing all parties to have a voice.... and feel heard.
Join us to hear corporates, parents, educators, teens and the latest advice of how we can in fact live the life we love, in making authentic interactions, because we know... authentic connection is everything.
gwunspoken
Authenticity in Action: Nigal DeMaria's Inspiring Journey from Education to Empowering Disability Services
Nigal DeMaria's journey from a school principal to a thriving business owner is nothing short of inspiring. Tune in to hear how this transition fueled his passion for making a genuine impact in the disability services sector through his company, EngageUs. With a refreshing focus on authenticity and personal connection, Nigel shares how the heartwarming discovery of his long-lost half-sister and newfound family ties in Sydney influenced his personal and professional life, highlighting the importance of family and community in his work.
Listen as Nigal candidly discusses the challenges and rewards of running a rapidly growing business, having expanded EngageUs to 118 clients in just six months. Learn about the innovative strategies that helped him surpass growth expectations and the emotional bonds he's formed with clients like Sharina and her family. Through engaging stories, Nigal compares the authenticity found in his new venture to the constraints of his former career in education, illustrating how a commitment to social justice and genuine support brings fulfillment and reduces stress.
Explore the intricacies of maintaining a personal touch while scaling a business, as Nigal emphasises the significance of upholding core values and quality service. His dedication to providing holistic care shines as he recounts expanding EngageUs' services to include adults up to 60 years old, while ensuring each client's needs are met without compromise. Join us for this heartfelt episode, where genuine connections, family support, and a commitment to authenticity define the enriching nature of our conversation with Nigal DeMaria.
www.in8code.com
Welcome to another edition of GW Unspoken, where we discuss stuff we don't typically talk about but probably should. And I am with the amazing Nigel DeMaria. How are you champion?
Speaker 3:We're good mate, how you been Gav.
Speaker 2:I'm good, mate. I'm in your house here. We've set the podcast in gear. We've got the dogs in the cages around us. Mate, how nice it's up here in Davies. It's beautiful. Yeah, she's a lovely little piece of paradise out here, isn't it Really nice? I know that I brought you an awesome feed sandwiches and you put the lovely little potato chips on. It's actually quite nice, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:mate. Nothing like something really simple a lot of butter a little bit of soy sauce, some salt and away you go. Keep it simple.
Speaker 2:I had a laugh because I was coming out to your lovely country town out here and Tony had poured out, got the roast chicken poured out of the IJ there and looked left, looked right, looked left again and this bloody horse was coming across. I'm like who gives way to who?
Speaker 3:Mate, it's interesting, eh, like, this town is just absolutely fantastic. Like you can go down, you're what 50, 45 minutes out of Brisbane CBD and you're in the country. You've got everything from horses and dogs and people, you know. You occasionally get the kids screaming up the main street on their motorbikes having a good old hoot, because it's a one-cop town.
Speaker 2:That's unbelievable. Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3:It's a great place. It really is.
Speaker 2:All right, mate, let's get into the podcast. We often do this in the podcast and check in to see how we're going. So, out of five, five's awesome, one's terrible what are?
Speaker 3:you feeling at the moment? Oh?
Speaker 2:look mate.
Speaker 3:I'll put it at a bit of 4.8. It's pretty high. You catch up. Have a bit of a yarn over where things have been in the last few. I don't know last month, how long was the last time we did one of these.
Speaker 2:Was it three or four months?
Speaker 3:Yeah, easy, Easy yeah, yeah, yeah and just catching up and having a yarn and bashing around old war stories, which is great. Awesome, mate, yeah, fantastic. And what's something that Nigel's grateful for was I recently took my girls down to Sydney with me to meet my long-lost sister. I found out a few months back that I've got a sister.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And she's 55. And she's my half-sister, so she was put off for adoption back in 1969. And the most wonderful person beautiful family husband met a husband. She had two lovely daughters. And the most wonderful person beautiful family husband met a husband. She had two lovely daughters and they live on the northern sides of Sydney.
Speaker 3:So we spent a week down there, because I've met her a couple of times before, but I took my girls down with me and one of the things I was grateful about was not the fact of taking my girls down there, but because my girls were there. I got to see a side of them that I've never seen before, like they were so independent, they were so responsible, they were so engaging that when, as I was leaving Sydney, we were all kind of a bit sad, you know, because I wouldn't see Laura, my sister, for maybe a couple of months. And she's got two older daughters, one who's, I think, b's 22 and lives 19. And they're the most beautiful girls, such lovely role models for my daughters, because they just all get on so well. So I was sitting there with my sister, laura, and I said would you look after the kids if they came down the weekend without me? And she goes 100%. So I booked tickets straight away for the girls to fly down as unaccompanied minors.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I was just like they're 10 and 8. So I was just like you girls have done this.
Speaker 2:You're exceptional. Off you go I love that.
Speaker 3:So what I was grateful for was getting that opportunity to see them in a different light. Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, it was cool, that's awesome man.
Speaker 2:And so, look, last time you were on the podcast, we talked about a few things in your life. You were talking about growing up with your family and you talked about your principalship and designing and creating schools. The entrepreneur within you is obviously glowing and now part of a business you've created called EngageU. Again, just refresh our listeners again. What's your business about and what's, I suppose, the vision or mission or what's it stand for?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so EngageU is my little boutique NDIS provider company. Okay, and I do non-NDIS work as well, so especially in the consulting and helping people get onto the NDIS provider company. Okay, and I do non-NDIS work as well, so especially in the consulting and helping people get onto the NDIS. So what we typically try to do is I've got a bunch, a great team around me at the moment. We do a lot of work in getting, so I say what's the best way I can put this? Actually, can I talk you through the process of meeting someone and then how it kind of goes from there? Yeah, because that then sort of tells you what I do.
Speaker 2:Like I can sit here and go.
Speaker 3:We provide holistic opportunities for children to succeed.
Speaker 2:No, we don't want that. You put that principal stuff away, mate. We don't want all that educational stuff tonight. I want you from the heart, let's go.
Speaker 3:Isn't that jargon? Such bullshit.
Speaker 2:Isn't it?
Speaker 3:It's funny how much principals and people in education love to flout that on their websites. Yeah and no's just say the kid's struggling at school. I'll go and do an initial meet and greet with the family. The kid's got an NDOS package. We'll sit down. We'll have a chat about what's going on, where the pinch points are at school, what the challenges for the kid are, what the parents want, what the goals they want are, then what.
Speaker 3:I'll sort of give them advice on how to work with the school, how to approach the school. I'll usually attend a meeting with them to advocate for the kids, to make sure the school's effectively doing everything that it should, or everything that it's legislatively required to do, everything around there, you know support plans, personal learning plans, strategies, that sort of thing. And then we'll also talk about other areas of support. So a lot of these kids might need, you know, an occupational therapist. They might need, you know, an occupational therapist. They might need an exercise physiologist, they might need other people to sort of take them out for activities. So then my team of about 12 people at the moment we've got support workers, ots I build a really comprehensive what I would call we call it a game plan.
Speaker 2:It's a game plan around how we all work together as a team to support this kid to achieve their goals.
Speaker 3:Sounds like a little wraparound services a holistic approach to 100%, Because I learned when I was working in schools that some of these kids who've got disabilities or they've got challenges or whatever it is, just have so many people working around them but no one's talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:Everyone's doing their own thing. And then, when the proverbial hits the fan, people start pointing fingers at each other, but they don't point them at themselves. And I think, if you can centralise it with you know people who are really genuinely on board, you can get better outcomes, and we've been getting some really great outcomes. It's been really exciting, so yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you said a little boutique thing. But let's be honest now I know you said you started off with and you want to get a few clients on board. How is it going? Is it actually going? You're obviously building a lot of trust because it's actually growing faster than you thought. You don't have to give us specific numbers. Well, I can give you numbers.
Speaker 1:I've got nothing to hide.
Speaker 3:So the interesting story is I engaged a business coach to kind of help me get this thing up and going. So his stuff was around helping me develop the mission, the vision, the websites, the advertising et cetera. So we also wrote a bit of a business plan and part of that business plan was some KPIs. So the business officially launched in July last year yeah, and the KPI was five to ten participants by December 31st.
Speaker 2:Okay, six months.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, we hit 90.
Speaker 2:90 in six months. Yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we hit 90. Was that stressing you out? No, not at all. Not at all. I was loving every moment of it. And look, some of those were one-off clients, someone who comes to us for one meeting, one consult to help them get over a hurdle and some of those are ongoing who are using our services, such as OT, using our services, such as exercise, physiologists, etc. Etc. But this month and last month, just January, december we've taken on another 20 clients. So it's just we're up to about what are we up to now? I did a count today. I think I'm up to about 118 people we're working with or have worked with at the moment.
Speaker 2:We'll be at eight months, and that's over Christmas as well, if you count that period.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. So it's been really fantastic Really privileged actually and meeting some incredible people and seeing some incredible stories and some real heartbreaking stuff too like some shit. That just the saying I always use. You know, it's the place where God goes to cry with what some of these families go through. Yeah, but really privileged to be a part of it. Yeah, but really privileged to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's fantastic. I'll tell you about one family I've got. They're a lovely family and they live over at Zillmere. Yeah, I'll do a shout out to you, sharina. How are you, sharina's? This wonderful mum Sharina's got I think it's four kids. It might even be five, I think it's four kids and all on NDIS. Okay, oh yeah, and lovely kids, lovely family. But the kids have got some tricky stuff going on for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But Sharina, I won't say. Sharina is my favourite client to work with because that would be unfair to the other clients, but I love working with and working for Sharina. Okay, but the thing that's so incredible is that Sharina just gives over so much trust to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I kind of sit there and I think, could I do that? Yeah, could I give full trust and autonomy over to somebody else to support my kids and talk for me, like she signed over authority sometimes for me to talk to the NDIS on her behalf and the kids' behalf, and I sit there and I'm thinking that's just huge. Yeah, like to be advocating for someone's children and to be given that authority.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of trust.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's not even a privilege, it's levels above a privilege.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:And look, I look at you and you've got 118 people to help participants, to help out, and you've got the wraparound services, so 12 staff, obviously, and I'm sitting here looking at an ex-principal, an ex-thought leader in the education space. I mean, you still are, really, but in traditional schooling or different schooling, but you don't look stressed. We're here on a weeknight, it's Thursday night and it's 7.50 in your home you can hear the dogs howling on the outside, not getting any attention. But why aren't you stressed? How does it compare to being a principal? Why?
Speaker 3:aren't you straight? Why aren't you? How does it compare to being a principal?
Speaker 2:Look, I think I'm going to be respectful but not careful about what I say next Sounds like a slogan. Needs to go up on your office wall, mate. I love that that's good.
Speaker 3:Oh look, you know I don't ever want to. It'll be kind of a backhanded compliment to the education system I go that I am where I am at the moment because of all the wonderful opportunities and the wonderful leaders and people I met that I was affording.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:And in saying that, I'm also very thankful to the assholes I met too.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay.
Speaker 3:Because they taught me how not to be and taught me what to look at and, you know, to kind of think about things in a different perspective. So but the thing that I find absolutely fantastic about doing what I'm doing at the moment is that I'm meeting everyday people, everyday Australians. I'm able to be myself, I can talk, I can swear, I can use slang, I can be rough and tumble and all that sort of stuff. How's that dog going? It's not feeding back through the microphone is it A little bit?
Speaker 2:Which one is it A little bit? Which one is it? I think it's.
Speaker 3:Emily, she's a little sook. I'm thinking I might try and find the water and give her a bit of a spray.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right.
Speaker 3:Is it feeding in? Will it come through?
Speaker 2:on the mic. It might do, but that's okay, we're authentic here. It's all good, emily, sit down, come on.
Speaker 1:That's enough, we're authentic yeah, we'll see if that works.
Speaker 3:But one of the things about education is it's a conservative profession.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Very conservative, very restrictive and very prescriptive. If you're in a school, you are marching to the beat of the wheels that are turning bigger than you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And turning faster than you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You have to subscribe to their philosophy, to their values, to their system. Now, if that goes against the grain for you, suck it up, big guy. You've just got to go along with it, because the other thing is that a lot of people get focused on progression up the ladder.
Speaker 3:So, if I want to be promoted from teacher to head of year, how do I do that? You toe the line, you toe the line, you toe the line, you tow the line, you tow the line, you tow the line and you step into the role that the organisation wants you to play so that you look good, so effectively you can move up the line and be affirmed that you're an up-and-coming leader or you're exceptional at what you do.
Speaker 3:So the feedback loop actually traps you to keep going along with the company line and towing it.
Speaker 2:And following the man what the man wants, and following the man and what they want.
Speaker 3:And then what you get is also you get these organisations that are so risk adverse and so petrified of admitting that they're wrong, because then they actually put them. They incriminate themselves. So I've only been in one meeting with a deputy principal, this amazing principal at the Mitchelton Special School I can't remember what her name is and I'll say that name so people can hear Mitchelton Special School absolutely beautiful school, from what I've seen. We were in a meeting with them and I was supporting a mum with her kids there. This deputy principal actually turned around at one stage to the meeting and said you know what? We've got to apologise, we completely missed that for your son. That was our mistake, our fault, and we take full responsibility. We will change and we will be better.
Speaker 2:What a leader.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how incredible is that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And what did the mum do with that? The mum went. Thank you, the mum didn't go. Okay, now that you've admitted fault, I'm now going off to the courts and I'm going to sue you, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can work together openly.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It just opened up that beautiful sense of trust and collaboration.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But what do you get in other situations with principals? They say it's something that we will have to reflect on and I'll take it up with staff.
Speaker 2:Which may not happen, no, it doesn't, it usually doesn't you.
Speaker 3:It may not happen. No, it doesn't.
Speaker 3:It usually doesn't. You know it doesn't. I've never seen it actually work. Positive, yeah. So, coming back to the original question, why am I looking so relaxed? Is I get to do things the way I've always wanted to do, things that are according to Nigel's values and the company of Nigel's mission and vision which is really great and enjoying everything I do. You know I have more time for myself and enjoying everything I do, I have more time for myself. I've got more time for my girls. With my ex-wife we have a shared parenting arrangement of 50-50. So we do Monday, tuesday with Dad, then they go to their mum for two days, then they're with the dad for five days, then with their mum for five days. So on the days the girls aren't with me, I'm smashing at work, I'm doing big hours, but on the days they're with me on the Mondays and the Tuesdays- You're a present father right, I'm around.
Speaker 3:I'm dropping them at school at 8.30. I'm picking them up at 2.30. So I've got this wonderful lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Which a lot of dads and mums, a lot of dads, wouldn't have that privilege of doing. They wouldn't, would they? They don't have a chance.
Speaker 3:And I absolutely enjoy that and I'm really lucky to be able to do that, but I'm also doing stuff that I enjoy. I think that's the big thing. And I'm not. I don't have this sense of and we'll call it the man. I don't have the sense of the man standing over me and me actually thinking, oh, can I do this? Can I put this strategy or this new event or whatever we want to call it, in process? Are they going to approve?
Speaker 1:Can I get permission, new event or whatever we want to?
Speaker 3:call it in process are they going to approve or am I going to get cracked on the knuckles for doing something that could have been seen outside of the organisation's way of doing things?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I suppose you know I look at you and I know I've referred a couple of people on to you too who work in the education space at the moment, and every time I do this, when I refer them to you, I always say Nigel's one of these guys who rip off the NDIS space. He does more than what you know. He can probably charge more than what he could actually like he does at the moment. He's given me a couple of examples of that and I always say when I met you also at the Y, I said I've never met a man straight up. You just see his heart and you see his heart for other people. And do you think it's hard to talk about yourself? But do you think that's what sets you apart? Do you think that's what gives you motivation to keep going? Is that heart for other kids and for other families?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so I don't know if I've ever really thought of it like that, and I probably wouldn't think of it like that because I'd struggle in that kind of reflection on myself, thinking I'm a man with heart who does it for the heart. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable saying that about myself. Hey, look, if it's the truth or if that's how I'm seeing, great. But I kind of struggle a bit around that stuff. I'm not good at hearing that kind of stuff. I'm sitting here at the moment when you're saying that.
Speaker 2:Cringing saying damn that question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and feeling uncomfortable. I'll be honest, I'm feeling uncomfortable. It's a good uncomfortability, though it's not like I'm going to burst into tears, but I think why am I doing what I'm doing? I think it's I really I'm one of these guys who really struggles to unsee injustice. It's really difficult for me to unsee injustice. So when I look at kids, infants, teenagers, adults who, because of no fault of their own, have a disability, are being served an injustice in the sense of the way they can access the world or access the environment, or access what's going on for them around them, I can't unsee that and I think that's wrong. And if any contribution that I can make and, let's be honest, in the greatest scheme of things, my contribution at this point in time um, if we look at what's going on around us in a big, big world of eight billion people, you know it's kind of a drop in the ocean, but it's….
Speaker 2:It's not for those families.
Speaker 3:No, it's a good point, yeah, but it's just something that I'm really connected to.
Speaker 2:So where does it come from? If you were to reflect now, where does that passion? You know, they say with any good person who's got some really good mental health and drive, they've got passion and purpose. So where did that passion and purpose come from?
Speaker 3:It was probably planted by mum and dad, growing up in a household with a father who was a left-wing academic in social work and social policy, yeah and a mum who was a mental health advocate and set up her own charity to support people with mental health challenges, so it probably started there. I think. Doing a lot of travelling as a young man when I was in my early to mid-twenties went to a lot of third world countries and really saw how fortunate we were and that sense of this is shit. This is unfair. I get to go back in a couple of days to my apartment and watch TV and drink some nice wine, but you go back to a mud hut with no electricity. You know this sort of thing. It just didn't seem just or right or fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I wonder if maybe it came from that space. I think then also when I came back to Australia working in flexi schools, you know where you're working with these kids. Like the first flexi school I opened up was out at Nala and if anybody knows Nala, it's a low socioeconomic area.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, and it's a tricky space. Beautiful place though. I love the suburb of Inala, a lot of people go oh, it's a dump, it's a shithole, it's full of crims, it's you know, it's got full on Hot as hell. Yeah, doll budgers, you know it's around it. If you go and spend some time in Inala, you'll see that it's a pretty cool, great place.
Speaker 3:The sense of community that's there. I think I might've even said this on the last time we were chatting. I got invited into I would get invited into more families' homes to sit down and have a cup of coffee in one week working in Inala because we were very connected to the families there. I'd get invited into more homes to sit down and have a cup of coffee with more families in one week than I ever got invited to in a whole year working at a posh school up in North Wales Main Street School.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what does that tell you?
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, community, that's what it tells you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, community and connection.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think back to your question. I think it comes from that, yeah, but then also just seeing that you know effectively we all can make some sort of nice positive difference somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that has its own kind of self-propelling wheel that just keeps spinning and motivating you to keep going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so, yeah, so is that the best part of your job seeing the hope that you hope you can provide?
Speaker 3:Is that the motivating factor? Maybe not the hope that I can provide. I think it's probably more about when we get some good runs on the board or we get people feeling oh, this is great, thank you for helping. That's what sort of keeps me going, but also the other motivating factor is I get to be myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, I spoke about before how I don't actually believe anybody working anybody well actually, well, actually, no, that's probably not right. I was going to say anybody working in the schools are actually really themselves because of the um, the conservative, oppressive nature or the culture that sits within schools. Yeah, um, but hey, look, some people excel in. Team has done that. I sort of sit there and I go that's pretty cool, let's keep doing this. Yeah, that's the wins, isn't it?
Speaker 2:That's the wins that you get this is worthwhile. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, isn't it? That's the wins that you get, this is worthwhile.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so what's the overall goal? What's the overall goal for Nigel and his business? Like to support thousands of people and grow lots of staff, or are you going to limit it?
Speaker 3:Oh look, I don't know. I've been thinking about it the last couple of days because I'm in the process of opening. I've opened up another company. See, my company's been trading as a sole trader, so I've gone and opened up a PTYLTD company so that I can expand the services, Because with NDIS registration, sole traders can only take on a few registration groups to be certified for Okay.
Speaker 2:so what does that mean?
Speaker 3:So certain disabilities no so certain services so for example if you're a sole trader, you can offer therapeutical services, which is speech, ot, allied health, you can do.
Speaker 3:Transport, you can do fitness you can do personal training and exercise physiology. You can also do. What else can you do Fitness? Yeah, you can do fitness. You can do personal training and exercise physiology. You can also do household tasks, but if you become a PTYTLTD like a company, you can apply to be registered for the whole gamut of supports that the NDIS offers. So that's everything from specialised disability accommodation right through to early childhood intervention.
Speaker 1:Okay yeah.
Speaker 3:So I've opened up a PTYT LDD company. I'm currently going through the process. I've put my application in to the NDIS, looking at being audited in a month for that. So at the moment putting together all the documents and the requirements to meet that audit, because I want to spread the breadth of the services I can legitimately offer. I could offer these services as a non-registered provider, but there's an importance to me in being a registered provider because then I've got to meet NDIS standards and by doing that I actually learn more about all of the things that I have to do, because there's a whole suite of policies you've got to stick to and if you become familiar with that well, I think that feeds back onto your practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And how to better support people.
Speaker 2:And it's I'll be careful what I say here, but I wonder how many NDIS providers think that? You know, and I know there's plenty of good ones out- there, yeah, yeah. So that's you know disclaimer. No doubt there's some dodgy characters out there as well, gary you're 100% right.
Speaker 3:There's so many shitbags out there ripping off people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's disgusting to think that people, that there are people out there that would rip off people with disabilities, yeah, and a common thing I sometimes hear is that it's, but it's not their money, it's government money. Well, to me that's kind of two times you've made a mistake.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:One, you're ripping off people with disabilities.
Speaker 2:And secondly, you who require a service.
Speaker 3:Who require a service and by an assessment process, are entitled to that money. Just like the man who is unemployed, is entitled to job seeker allowance to help them find a job. These people who have a disability have gone through a rigorous assessment process and therefore are deemed to be entitled to a certain amount of funding to give them access to the community and to life that they didn't have. But then you get the people ripping it off. They're actually ripping off taxpayers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They're ripping off the mums and the dads like you and I who, you know, sincerely pay our taxes. Yeah, so they're stealing off their mums and the dads like you and I who sincerely pay our taxes. So they're stealing twice. And I think that takes a special type of low breed. That's the sort of person who plays tennis with the. Well, I won't say they swim in the cesspool so what are the negatives?
Speaker 2:come on, you give me the smiley approach. You look relaxed back here. It's really annoying me at the moment. It's pissing me off, not really. We're in your lovely home here and you're kicking back and you can see it in your face that, yeah, you've got a business cranking right and you've got some really early runs on the board. You've got some some great staff around you. Otherwise you wouldn't have the clients or the participants there. So there's got to be some negatives and positives. So the yin and the yang. What are some of the negatives in this space, or what you've come across?
Speaker 3:Well, I want to give an acknowledgement before I do that, because I'm conscious that I don't want this to seem like it's me selling tickets to the Nigel show, because it's not the Nigel show and that's not you anyway, by the way. But yes, go on. Yeah. But so the great thing is that the team that I've got around me at the moment, you know like. I've got this great guy called Kobe, who's my exercise physiologist. The guy's an absolute gun. Kids just love him. I've got this incredible OT called Jimmy. He's second year out. Wade's, another great OT. I've got these great support workers there's Craig, there's Jessica, there's all these great staff. Anybody else that I've missed as I'm going through this list? I'm really sorry, but I wouldn't be getting the outcomes, and when I say me getting the outcomes, the company wouldn't be getting the outcomes.
Speaker 3:And the participants wouldn't be getting where they were if it wasn't for these guys and girls, because they're doing when you look at it, I'm probably doing maybe 15 billable hours a week. Them, accumulatively, are doing more than that, so they're doing more of the heavy lifting than me. I'm kind of out there just directing traffic at the moment. So, the shout out really needs to go to them.
Speaker 2:They're on the ground.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're on the ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm doing. What's actually changed is now I'm doing, and when you say what's kind of not so cool about the business is that for me to keep maintaining this momentum, I'm slowly having to work on the business, not work in the business.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Because if I'm not working on the business, then the leads and the clients aren't coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Then this starts to become a problem. So I'm starting to have to step back and go up to the helm and work. You know, use the old ship analogy. You know you can't be steering the boat, you can't be in the helm room and the engine room at the same time. So that's probably one of the negatives is that I'm not seeing as many people face-to-face daily as what I used to.
Speaker 2:And isn't it interesting that most people in business are the other way around. I'm too much in the business, not working on the business, and you're the other Because, as I told you, you don't like this, but you've got the heart, so you want to be in the face of you. Know, administrators, principals making sure the students or the clients participants get the best that they can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, and I think what I've had to kind of do is do a lot of letting go and going. Well, you know, you sat down, you had a cup of coffee with these staff that you've put on. Let them do what they do best.
Speaker 2:That's great leadership. By the way, that's what good leaders should be doing.
Speaker 3:And I say to them I say look, the only time you're going to hear from me is if we've got an administration issue because it's something to do with the company. There's three times you'll hear from me an administration issue with the company. So at the moment we're implementing a new software program to manage all of the clients, so they've all heard from me about that. The second time you'll hear from me is you really stuff up, like you really fuck up. We're going to have to have a yarn and work out how we can sort of unravel ourselves out of that. Or the third time you'll hear from me is when you're doing something great. Other than that, I am never going to comment on your practice and how you do what you do, because I hired you, because you do what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not going to micromanage them.
Speaker 3:No, shit, no.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:No, no, they're well-accomplished individuals and professionals. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:They're adults. That's good, yeah, and so how far has it reached at the moment?
Speaker 3:What do you mean geographically?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, look, it's actually been really cool. Where did we get to Adelaide? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:A couple of clients down in Adelaide, melbourne. A client down in Melbourne had a family down in Port Macquarie I was regularly seeing flying down to see them. And yeah, southeast Queensland, you know, as far as Gympie out to Toowoomba and kind of down at the Tweed.
Speaker 2:So you find yourself on the road a fair bit, then yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Not as much this year, Last year you know, for example, Boonah. If anybody knows where Boonah is, great place, Go out and see it. Kind of like Dayborough, but a little bit further out it's a beautiful country town. So I'd actually spend a couple of nights out there every two weeks and stay in this old, dilapidated old pub. This pub had some character and it was a geez. It was a shit hole, Like you know.
Speaker 1:I stayed and the stains on the carpet.
Speaker 3:I actually had this moment when I started to go to paddocks thinking what is this? Is this a halfway house? Is there crims around? What am I going to do? And I barricaded the door and all my bloody anxiety brain started clicking in. But yeah, there were stains on the carpet. Check the sheets. Sheets were clean, so that was the main thing. Mate, the sheets were clean, so it was the main thing, mate.
Speaker 2:I think everyone's got a story like that. I remember coming back from teaching at Cloncurry and we used to finish a week early. Out there they give you an extra week holiday, yep, I think just the other side of the sort of northwest corridor past Morven, and I remember getting in the car. We finished at 2.30 and it was Christmas holidays that extra week, and I think my parents used to always have have a place in Ballina.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And so they'd be sat there and I'd be like pack my surfboard, mum and Dad, I'll meet you there, I'll be there in two days, like if you went straight through. It's eight and a half hours, oh wow, and I've done it a couple of times. It's very dangerous, by the way, but anyway, I'm like I'm going as far as I can with my you know four-wheel, but as far as Tambo, I think it was like nine hours, like straight from school. So I was flogged. It's midnight, run out of fuel. All the servers Okay, I call in the pub knocked on the door in there and the pub is rocking. It's a Friday night in Tambo. There's nothing around mate, kangaroos, cows about here, yeah, yeah, yeah, so cool.
Speaker 2:Long story short. Yeah, mate, I'm just going to go straight to this room, little single room, old school doors. I've gone to lie on the mattress. It's got a massive bow on it. I'm like, oh this, I'm not going to sleep on this. I put the mattress on the ground. You hear this. Oh yeah, great, awesome Mozzie's like what the hell? And of course you turn the light on to get the mozzie. I look up Straight ahead, probably about three metres. Where the bedroom wall is is glass.
Speaker 1:The glass has been smashed in and there's a VB carton to cover up the holes that weren't there.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great, and I've got two hours of sleep on the road again. Yeah, yeah, okay, but it's funny. Those are the things you love at Nia. Yeah, and they're great things, aren't?
Speaker 1:they.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, because you know I sat downstairs in the pub because I don't drink, but I sat downstairs and had some dinner and you know you chat to the old blokes there and it was really interesting. These old barflies they're such good guys, they're such real salt of the earth people. Young barmaid right, and she goes out to the bottle and all the three guys behind the bar all stand up and go and stand next to the monitor.
Speaker 3:That's got the camera showing from where she is down there and I said to them I said what are you doing? They said, oh, there's a few dead shits around here, oh, looking after us, oh yeah. Yeah, we're just keeping an eye.
Speaker 2:How good, how good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how good yeah that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So where to next, mate? What's next? What's next in the agenda With EngageU? I don't want this to be like a big it's not here to give you a big promo, but if there's people out there who are listening and going, maybe EngageU is for them. Yep, like, how do they at the moment? How do they reach you? Is it word of mouth? There's the website. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's the website, so that's engageuscomau, so wwwengageuscomau. Okay yeah, you can give me a ring I prefer, if you just give me a ring.
Speaker 3:I just find that ability to be able to have a chat have a bit of a yarn, see, what's going on is a more authentic way of meeting people and working for them. Yeah, I get a lot of referrals now coming through from support coordinators where the personal contact has gone out of it, which I always balk at Like. I had two of them I sent out today and I was like I don't know if I'm liking this because I feel it's losing a bit of personal touch, okay, but you know, I think, even as I'm liking this because I feel it's losing a bit of personal touch, okay, but you know, I think, even as I'm saying that to you, I'm thinking, well, what can I do to change that? Hey, always pop a call, and maybe that's something I should always do is just pop a call and introduce myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:So yeah, phone call or email as well. So email is just educator E-D-U-C-A-T-O-R at engageuscomau.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so, yeah. So what's the next plan for you?
Speaker 3:Oh look, I think, keep doing what I'm doing with the services we're offering.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know that wraparound game plan stuff that we've been doing for about the last seven, eight months. Yeah, the company will get registered in probably about four weeks four to six weeks is when I'll have the audit and probably about four weeks, four to six weeks is when I'll have the audit and, to be honest with you, I'm not too sure what's going to happen after that. Yeah, okay, I really don't know, like my plan is just to start offering those services, but I might get into it and go well, this is too much work.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, or I might go. Hey, this is well outside of my wheelhouse. I'm backing off back to the little stuff which I really liked. But I think you asked a question before about you know. You're saying everything's going great, you look relaxed, you're calm. The thing that does sort of play on my mind is when he's big enough. Big enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I'm worried about losing that boutique personal touch. Yeah, and I kind of question myself I go are you genuinely chasing the participants? Why are you growing so big? Because when do you kind of go, hey, stop growing so big and just stick with the core group of people you've got? So I don't know, gary, I don't know about that one.
Speaker 2:And is that sort of a risk too, where you're thinking about it? Like I know you said you're blessed before with the staff you've got. Is that, too, a concern where, if you get bigger, more participants, more staff, chances of you may get a couple of staff that may not? Be the same values and that kind of stuff too. Yeah, 100% 100%.
Speaker 3:I had a staff member recently that I moved on, and what I'm going to say next in this next kind of paragraph bit on this is it's going to sound like I'm really brutal, but my belief is that people with disabilities don't have time for poor performing people. If you're brought in to perform for somebody because they're paying you and by perform I mean provide a service if you provide a substandard level of service, people with disabilities don't have time for that and there should be no affording of time.
Speaker 3:So this staff member produced some work that was below standard. It actually cost one of the participants in their plan. We then went into full overhaul mode to try and fix the problem. So I moved that staff member on pretty quickly it was within 24 hours and wind it back a bit. It wasn't like the first incidents, like it wasn't like, oh, you tripped up, see ya, it was three or four times this had happened and I'd put in place some supervision, had a really highly senior, qualified staff member work with this person, and then in the end I was just like no, I'm not going to waste time, I don't have time to waste on this, but, more importantly, the participants don't have time.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I suppose in a day it all reflects back on your business and yourself.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:As the leader of the business.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, and it also reflects back on, I guess, people who we work with and work for, work with and work for yeah, they deserve the best. Yeah, if one of my staff is not giving the best, we'll give them a few. Goes at trying to get them on board and give them a bit of hurdle help to become the best To support them the best you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not that brutal to just flick someone because they turned up with the wrong coloured shirt. But if you're not going to be able to do the job to help people, you're gone. You are gone and I've got to admit that sounds brutal. But people with disabilities deserve the best. They deserve the silver spoon treatment because, unfortunately, life has served them the wooden spoon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay yeah, can you just quickly take us through, if you can, the range of people you do help? Yeah, sure Is that all?
Speaker 3:right. So I started off last year. We focused on kids, a real strong focus on kids, that kind of four to 15 year old bracket. Yeah, um, and then I started noticing that, hey, there's other people out there. Hey, my skill set the company's growing skill set is transferable. So, um, today we picked up a client who we're working with who's 60. Yeah, um, so we're moving into the adult bracket now okay um, but, but never losing focus on what our core was you know, like people say, never forget where you come from.
Speaker 3:Well, the reality is that it'll always be young kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's where my vocational commitment always sits is with young kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But if there's older people out there you know teenagers or you know kids turning into their 20s and then in their 30s, 40s, up to the 60s, hey, if we can do the work for you and be a support, we'll do it. But if we can't, we won't, we won't go near you.
Speaker 2:And we'll be honest and say that, yeah, that's good, and a range of disabilities you work with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the most prevalent disability is ASD or autism.
Speaker 1:Yep, but the most prevalent disability is.
Speaker 3:ASD, autism, yep, but we have a range of all types of challenges that people face, so you know intellectual impairment, motor neurone disease, muscle dystrophies. We've also got people with ABIs, acquired brain injuries. Mental health patients oh goodness. Physical disability, cerebral palsy. I think we've worked pretty much across the whole spectrum of challenges. Okay, I met this lovely family. Actually, this is a cool story.
Speaker 3:I met this. Speaking about Boona, when I was out of Boona I met a lovely family out there that I was doing some work with, and the mum and the dad were profoundly deaf.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow. Did we talk about this at the last session? No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3:Mum and dad are profoundly deaf, so wind back Nigel to his early 20s. I was dating a lovely girl at the time who was profoundly deaf, so I learned how to do sign language.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we broke up.
Speaker 3:Moved on as you do when you're young.
Speaker 2:When you break up, sign language is like a lot of finger gestures.
Speaker 3:Was it an amicable one.
Speaker 1:No, it an amicable one.
Speaker 2:No, it was amicable, that's good. Sorry, mate, just pass that.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, I can see your mind tricking there, couldn't it Small?
Speaker 3:things for me. Sorry, mate. Oh mate, I'm the same, you know. Wait till a butterfly goes across.
Speaker 1:Ooh, a butterfly, look at that.
Speaker 3:So this lovely family, mum and dad, are profoundly deaf. Okay, they've got supported. They had a wonderful support coordinator out there. She's absolutely amazing, hey Joe. Hey Joe from Encompass Wellbeing, how are you going? So she got in contact with me so I did some work with the family. So as we're trying to do these assessments, I'm having to quickly try and find that space in my brain that used to know how to do Auslan and then away we go. I started to remember how to sign again.
Speaker 1:Oh, how cool.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, but anyway, their little boy, this great little kid, he was about five, he could hear, but it was interesting because he would pretend not to hear mum and dad when they were talking to him. Yeah, and run around, run amok, you know. So it was really interesting, but they were a beautiful family.
Speaker 1:Yeah they were.
Speaker 3:But we did a lot of assessments and put some reports together to try and help them get you know. A few more supports going through, okay.
Speaker 2:And so there's no, and I don't mean disrespectfully there's no sort of area of disability you prefer to work with, or is? It more like the families you want to help who need it the most Like. Is there any, or do you just see this sort of even playing field of who you can help?
Speaker 3:Look, I think what I tend to do is I go if someone comes to me, if a family comes to me, or if a family is referred to me, I'll be able to make a quick assessment as to whether or not we can work with them.
Speaker 3:So, if it's a kid with ASD level 2, okay, an ADHD and a PDA profile, yeah, no problem, straight away, okay. But recently, this elderly lady 60, who got referred to us, who, um, you know, stroke, she's had some surgery on having, um, an artificial Achilles tendon being put in, um, all this sort of stuff. I didn't know if we could work with her. So all I did was ring around my OTs and ring around my other staff and go is this in our wheelhouse? Do you got, do you have the capacity and the knowledge to do that? Because what I do when I meet with people to say, hey, you're thinking about coming on board with this is I'm very upfront with them about saying, hey, look, if you don't do a good job, I'm going to flick you. If you do do a good job, we're going to keep you. You know, there's ways in which we increase your wage and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:But I also say that one of my expectations and my non-negotiables is if you can't do the work or don't feel confident about it or it's outside your skill set we refer on because we're not diluting quality of service to people with disabilities, because that's only going to be more detrimental to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not nice.
Speaker 3:And we're not chasing the dollar here. Yeah so, yeah. So, in answer to your question, it's on a case-by-case basis.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if one comes across and it's really tricky, yeah, we'll discuss it as a team, but there are cases that we've knocked back that. I've just said to support. I said look, I'm sorry, that's outside of our skill set. I legitimately cannot take this on and feel like a decent human being. Yeah, because I'll only be doing you a disservice.
Speaker 2:Okay, and is it a bit. I want a brutal honesty here. Is it a dog-eat-dog world out there, or do you have people who you have? You can't service them? You'll refer on to certain organisations, or is it pretty much like you know?
Speaker 3:Oh, there's some good guys out there. Yeah, don't get me wrong, there's some absolute as I say before, absolute shitbags.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You wouldn't have them look after a dog bowl of food, yeah, but no, there are good mobs out there that I work with and you pick up pretty quickly. You can pick up pretty quickly who's good and who's not. Yeah, usually the most easiest way to see is based on the deliverables if they can deliver.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And what sort of quality those deliverables are. Yeah, you know. Are they meeting timeframes? Are their communications good?
Speaker 2:You, you know are they meeting time frames? Are they communications? Good, um, you know that sort of thing. Yeah, and I don't want you to bag anybody, but I'm pretty sure that some of the clients you or the participants you've picked up, they've had some bad experiences in the past the common thing I hear is they never got back to me.
Speaker 3:They charge me for things I didn't know about. Um, I ring and I ring and they never. They never come back to me. Um, the common things I hear like that, or is it? No, they sent out a. I asked for this type of worker to come out. They sent out someone who was completely the opposite. My child escalated and now we can't get my child to work with anyone.
Speaker 2:Because there's no trust. No trust, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing but an anxiety and a hypervigilance around who's coming out next? Yeah, wow, out next. And those people that do that are just putting bums on seats for dollars. That's all they're doing. So, yeah, because I say to participants, when they give me a call, I say, hey, look, I'm sending out Jimmy. Jimmy's a great guy. Here's his profile.
Speaker 3:You're going to have a meet and greet with him, but I want you to think of this as a quasi interview. Okay, there's going to be no therapies in this session. It's just a meet and greet for him to meet you, meet the family, meet your son or meet your daughter. If you get an even one iota of that, jimmy may not work. Jimmy doesn't work for you. I said, because we're not going to compromise what the best possible person with you is, and I say to them but it's also the same with Jimmy. If Jimmy goes out and feels that he can't work with you or there's something not right, but you love him, you think he's the best thing since sliced bread, I'm sorry but Jimmy's not going to be working with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:It has to be almost Integrity there. Yeah, it has to be a match. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, mate, but I'd never be principal again. No, no, I think back. It's interesting having a chat with the senior OT who works for us, adele, lovely lady, lovely lady Having a yarn with her about the differences in management, and I don't know if I could. Actually, I know that I couldn't handle managing people again in the education space. It's such a politically and emotionally charged environment with so many different agendas. And I see you smiling here, gav.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm just thinking of my wife and she's talking about things like this. We're having these conversations this week actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think maybe it's a less tolerant thing or a more mature thing. As you get older I find less tolerance around that myself. But sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, please. I don't have any tolerance for it. Yeah, you know, like when you and I were having a bit of a chat, was I talking to you tonight about how many give-a-fucks you've got?
Speaker 2:Was that you? No, I'd like to hear that Okay sorry.
Speaker 3:I get confused sometimes I get a bit tired. It's my flatmate, glenn, who lives with me. Glenn, he's a legend of a bloke. Him and I have been kids since we were six years old, so anyway. So Glenn and I were talking about, you know, life in general. And I said we were talking about how, the older you get and with a bit of life experience, how many fucks have you got to give? And he kind of said to me, how many fucks have you got to give? And I said, well, typically is my daughters. Okay, that's the first fuck I've got to give, that's the first thing I really. But by saying how many fucks you have to give, how many things do you give a fuck about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah okay, so I've got my daughters. Yeah, okay, I've got the business.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay. And then I've got kind of my own health and wellbeing the road. Let them, yeah, let them. But let's be honest, I'm not that perfect, because the guy giving me the finger on the road is usually giving the finger back too. But from a principle point of view, p-l-e not P-A-L. Yeah, yeah, I just don't know, I just, I just I couldn't, I don't have the fucks to give, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Going back into that space, yeah, yeah, going back into that space, yeah, yeah. Well, rach gave me this. She passed on for her friends a podcast Jay Shetty and Mel Robbins so good isn't he? Yeah, and so there's about. You know, tell them. So, basically, every time someone gives you a hard time or they've got energy where it's negative, fine, no worry, whatever you think Well, it's so interesting. Sorry, let them. Let them say that Don't give it energy. But unfortunately we give all this energy to what people think or how they're perceived or why can't we get along with them?
Speaker 2:Why can't they see my way and I'm definitely guilty of that in my life a lot of times and it's like why would you give energy? You can't change people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop pumping the oxygen out of the fire. Let it die down, like Glenny, my mate I was just telling you about. He was telling me a story last night about a person in his life who's always questioning and criticising him, going oh you should have done this. Oh, have you thought about doing this? No, you need to do more of this. And criticising who he was for what he did. And he realised through our conversation that he was throwing fuel under the fire because he kept coming back. Well, what about when I do this? But this is this. And then he sort of realised he said next time I have that conversation with that mate of mine, I'm going to actually say to them you know what you're right? Yeah, yeah, you're right about that I should have done that yeah, I should have been a better person and walk away.
Speaker 2:That's it. Agree with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Best part of an argument. Yeah, we had a really strong PE teacher growing up in high school I think back then you were allowed to hit kids. I think I was hit twice from her, but she's still my favourite teacher. But I remember she was. I said oh, I think one day I said oh, I should have done that and she just roasted me. Don't you ever say coulda. Don't you ever say shoulda, yeah, or you woulda. That's right. So don't ever go back If it was important to you, you would have sort holy crap.
Speaker 2:I just remember thinking, yeah, yeah, it's amazing what you hear.
Speaker 3:Some sayings that can change your mindset and stuff. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, mate, Is there anything else tonight that we haven't spoken about that you want to talk about life, business, mate? We could be here for hours, I know I know we could just keep going. We always do. It should be recorded while we're having a feed. That's probably the real quality stuff because nothing's censored over, there is it.
Speaker 1:Gary not really mate, no.
Speaker 3:Thank you again, mate. I love doing these chats with you and every time I ring and say, hey, feel like doing another podcast, you're like yeah, mate, 100%, let's get on it. So shout out to you, mate, Like it's great, no.
Speaker 2:I'm one blessed. I just love doing this because I get to know people in a deeper sense. And you know I know you won't like me saying this, but, as I said, I referred to people onto you before because you've got the heart You've I keep using that word for you you have got the heart, you've got the right.
Speaker 2:If you do the best thing in the interest of the kids, I'll always support you, and I think that sums up you mate because you're always there for people, whether it be the kids you're working with, the adults you're working with or the parents you're working for. Even the language you said today is like. You know it's not scripted, you know it comes from the heart, mate, so no doubt you deserve success, and those and those people are blessed and they're lucky to have you mate, to run what you're doing with them.
Speaker 3:Oh, vice versa, mate. I'm very blessed to get what I get from them for being who they are and doing what they do. Yeah, awesome, that's the other side of the coin, mate.
Speaker 2:So yeah, cool. Thanks for joining us on the show. G'day Cheers, mate.
Speaker 1:Outro Music.