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gwunspoken
We know that now more than ever, there is a growing disconnection between parents and their teens, corporates and their employees, and human interactions in general.
This can cause stress, frustration and many arguments within families and the work environment.
gwunspoken looks at the challenges people of all ages have in their relationships with one another and provides experience and advice, allowing all parties to have a voice.... and feel heard.
Join us to hear corporates, parents, educators, teens and the latest advice of how we can in fact live the life we love, in making authentic interactions, because we know... authentic connection is everything.
gwunspoken
Crafting Family Legacies: Navigating Intentional Parenting and Social Pressures
What if the secret to a more fulfilling life lies in the simple act of reading a book or sharing an impromptu moment with loved ones? Join us as we recount a memorable weekend getaway in Yamba, where the chaos of traveling with our two rambunctious dogs revealed the beauty of life’s small joys. From diving into Matthew McConaughey's "Greenlight" to reflecting on life's milestones as I approach my 50th birthday, we explore the profound impact these moments have on our understanding of legacy and personal growth, drawing inspiration from Brene Brown's wisdom on courage and vulnerability.
Our conversation takes a heartfelt turn as we dissect the art of intentional parenting and the legacies we are crafting for our children. We share personal anecdotes on the delicate dance between guiding and allowing space for self-expression, emphasising the importance of presence in everyday interactions. Through these reflections, we discuss how empowering our children with thoughtful decision-making not only fosters independence but also instills an appreciation for family traditions and shared responsibilities that shape their futures.
In a world increasingly shaped by social media, we tackle the challenges of parenting teenagers amid societal pressures. Our discussion highlights the necessity of setting boundaries, fostering resilience, and nurturing self-esteem to equip them for life's ups and downs. We draw parallels with global perspectives, contrasting the simplicity found in less materialistic cultures with the complexities of our tech-driven lives. Join us in this exploration of meaningful conversations, life values, and the role we play in raising a generation poised to contribute positively to the world.
www.in8code.com
Welcome to another edition of GW Unspoken, where we discuss stuff we don't typically talk about, but probably should. We're on the road right now, so you can probably hear the bit of a road noise and I'm here with my beautiful wife. How are you, wifey?
Speaker 2:I'm good. Thank you, husband. How are?
Speaker 1:you Good, we've got two crazy dogs in the back and mine's just coming through the middle, so if you hear they are tied up by the way there, if you hear some noises or grunts and groans, it's actually the puppies coming through here. Weissie's with us right now just coming through. Rachie out of five, how are you feeling right now? Three, that's low, missing your chocolate.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, I have a sore tailbone.
Speaker 1:Sore tailbone. Hmm, sitting down in the car won't help, obviously, no, all right. Well, let's make it positive. What's something you're grateful for at the moment?
Speaker 2:Lovely weekend away with my husband.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's talk about that a little bit. Where did we go? What happened?
Speaker 2:I booked us a tiny home at Yamba, Made the fatal mistake of bringing the pooches with us. It was dog-friendly, but in the middle of the night my husband still had to rescue cushions and plants chewed up and the fly screen being destroyed by the two cattle dogs who wanted to come inside.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, it's like that movie, Marley and Me. Yeah. We can't keep the dogs home alone because the neighbor gets cranky and they bark at night time. We've gone for two nights so we thought in the big backyard they'd occupy themselves, but they did. They just got into a few things. They're trying to scratch at the fly screen door trying to get in.
Speaker 2:How many times did you get up to?
Speaker 1:I think it was three, but it's quite ironic. We're talking about the value of sleep right now, in the middle of an eight series podcast about how sleep's so important. Can you tell me how you're feeling now compared to yesterday, even yourself?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, we had a great sleep last night, but the night before probably you were awake more than you slept, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had a laugh. We drove after school down there and it took about 400 hours to get down to Yambur and I think we got less than that sleep. We definitely feel a lot better tonight after sleep. Yeah, so coming back home now, what are you looking forward to in the next chapter, or what's on the horizon for yourself?
Speaker 2:Something else. Sorry, I just want to say I'm grateful, for I'd like to not follow instructions, of course, so I was grateful for you reading to me this morning. That was a really nice moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we've done it a bit, haven't we? We were reading that book Greenlight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, by Matthew McConaughey. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was actually thinking that when I was reading to Rach. We've had terms about reading that book. It was actually something I'm really grateful to and I know many couples probably think it's weird people reading to each other, but I really enjoy that space.
Speaker 2:I think we were talking about the benefit of actually reading a book. Like everyone's using podcasts or Audible at the moment, but I think there's still a real gentle magic to just reading a book and getting lost in that For some reason, it feels so much more relaxing.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, I remember reading some last night. I was getting to an interesting part and I heard someone snoring on my shoulder.
Speaker 1:So I must have been reading with much enthusiasm there. But it's funny because we were both in it this morning and we were having a coffee and then he said should we read a bit more of that book this morning? And I was actually thinking that, but I thought he might want to do something a bit more. I don't know up by a sign and go out for breakfast or take the dogs for a walk on the beach or something. But we were both thinking the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we were at the final chapters of the book, so it was nice to just have a lazy Sunday in bed without dogs or children and just yeah, take that moment. It was nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, the dogs were tied up on a short leash so they were all behaved. They couldn't get up so much and just stood that way so it was good. Well, let's go with that tangent. At the moment, since we've gone that field, what's something that stood out to you in the book about Matthew McConaughey, and maybe how that may have some kind of influence or thought process on you and your life at the moment?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, because my husband's nearing the big 5-0 this year, it's become like a real thing with us around the Brene Brown Halfway to Dead segment that she did that. We talk a lot about what have you left on the table and what's left behind that you haven't achieved, that you wish you had. Um, to recap some of those lines um, Brene Brown says you know, at about 50 years of age, the universe comes down, taps you on your shoulder and says, hey, you're halfway to dead and I'm not messing around anymore and you've wasted the gifts that I've given you. And it's not without penalty. Nobody writes for free and we talk about that. Every time we've played that or listened to it, we've both had an enormous, I guess, wake up moment. But you know, what is it that we feel like we should have achieved? What is it that we want to make sure we've left? And then we were having a discussion around what's our legacy and what legacy meant to us.
Speaker 2:So I think after reading Matthew McConaughey's book, I just felt he was incredibly brave. You know you can make a lot of assumptions about someone, but when you read his biography or autobiography, I should say he's written it for himself. He talks a lot about when things didn't feel right. Then he would be brave enough to take himself away and take these trips where he'd force himself to have to deal with his inner demons. I guess and I think you know, we probably have all had moments where we've done that, but I just really respected that he would take that. My brother calls it the dark night of the soul he'd go through and he would not rest and not move to the next phase of his life until he felt like he'd gotten deep with inside himself and understood what was eating him up and then he would proceed with the next chapter of his life. So I really respected that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he's really a deep thinker, isn't he? He articulates things very well. I didn't realise he was such a deep thinker. But even we talked about how Sylvester Stallone, denzel Washington I'm sure there's more actors out there who've done it but he took nearly two years off denying parts of his romantic rom-com. Obviously he was known for that, but he didn't want to take another movie like that because he wanted to test himself and be something different, be known for something different, and I just really respected it. He was offered I think one part was $14 million for another rom-com, but he didn't do it because it didn't sit well with who he was. So what's it mean for you? Then we talk about Matthew McConaughey being those self-demons and going away and thinking about himself, his life, both pushing to 5-0.
Speaker 2:Now I'm not even close, buddy, I won't lie.
Speaker 1:But is there something in there that sparks your thoughts about where you want to be or where you're heading now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we spoke the other day that I've always spent my career doing things for Indigenous youth and as I've gotten a bit older, I'm more conscious of being really, really present for my own children, like the five of them. I think I'm really conscious of making sure that the legacy I leave is that I've been that great parent and guide to them. I don't know, I think you get caught up in the rush of life and all the things you're expected to have and achieve rush of life and all the things we're expected to have and achieve. But but and I think I reflect deeper on that more because I worked so much when my kids were little that I am really aware now of those precious moments and it's capturing the chat in the car on the way to school, it's tucking them in at night and having those, those conversations and and just by making a concerted effort to be super present for them.
Speaker 2:That's when I find particularly the teenage girls will then open up the most. It's, at the least, I guess, the least expected moment. So, yeah, where I'm at in my life is taking the break off the career as much and probably feeling like the most important legacy I'll leave behind is to raise. You know, five children that have, you know, and obviously there's been a couple other children along the way, some stepchildren, but for now, my current situation making sure that those five young people feel like there's going to be someone who shows up for them for the rest of their life and what, what I've instilled in them, um, has been beneficial that the world will benefit from the human beings they have grown into, become or becoming and I think it's hard for a parent too.
Speaker 1:You get to that stage where a lot of people might feel like saying, well, I don't have time to step back and be that person or that parent for my kids. But, like you said before, it's those small little, seemingly insignificant moments where you're tucking them in and saying it, or the 10 or 15 minute drive to school where you get to have that conversation off your devices. Let's have a chat, let's have song for song. Even and I think someone said it really well the other day a lot of times we have those really good conversations with people when we're actually not face to face and we're looking at traffic and we're distracted, um, and you can actually really get deep and talk about those things that maybe some teenagers trying to you know back. I'm sure we have all our secrets when we're teenagers, but just to know that they're there for us or we're there for them, I should say Well, not to name names, but there's one particular teenage girl who, since she was little, would just say I do myself.
Speaker 2:And so often I feel incredibly frustrated because I don't think she listens to me or doesn't take any advice and chooses to shape the world around the way she wants things to operate. But then, when I'm least expecting it, words will come out of her mouth that are generous or giving or kind or sensitive, or just just super sharp with her problem solving, and I realize that it is still going in. So, just when I think she's not listening or she doesn't ever want our advice, um, when I see her in a position of guiding other young children or having to be responsible, she really steps up to the plate and I and I find that you know I go okay, it's okay she is actually absorbing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you use that word a bit guiding. So what's the difference between? What do you mean by that? Like, what's the parenting situation? With the word guiding I mean there's parents out there listening, probably going well, it's okay, my kids don't listen. I know they don't listen and I try and tell them to listen, tell them to that, and they don't listen. I'm trying to be the right parent for them.
Speaker 2:What's the difference between, I suppose, telling and guiding? Probably, and who knows for what particular sum of reasons, but being controlled or being told what to do is probably like one of my least favourite things in the world.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:And I think because of that, but also because I made so many mistakes growing up, so many things I wasn't proud of, so many challenges or wrong paths I took.
Speaker 2:I have always made it a commitment to never have secrets from my children and not every parent would agree with that, but I never wanted them to feel they had to live up to me without knowing who I was and how flawed I've been myself.
Speaker 2:So I guess I've always tried to create an environment where they felt safe to tell me anything, no matter what it was, and I won't always be happy about it or agree with it, but they definitely know that I will listen without judgment and be there and love them regardless, like we'll figure it out. And it doesn't mean I won't be angry at the time or disappointed or frustrated, but they also know it's safe to make mistakes because I've shared mine with them. So, yeah, I think that creates an environment. The guiding bit is that a really good example is quite often when you're a teenager. You don't want to listen to that advice. So I try and flip it and say, well, if it's not about you, but it was happening to your child or your younger sibling, would you allow it to happen. You like that to happen.
Speaker 2:If it was your child, would you allow them to do that, and because you put the power back in them to make the decision, I find that more often than not, yeah they, they get it like they just stop the argument because you've made them feel what it would feel like if you, if they were the parent or if they were the older sibling, responsible for that decision yeah, let me just say that your parenting has been shaped or is different compared to when you were growing up, because I know that you've been before on the podcast and it's a very popular podcast actually.
Speaker 1:It's actually quite interesting because we were going to talk about parenting. Last time you were on it was probably over a year ago now and it started talking about the way you grew up and being Indigenous. But you told the audience back then that you lost both your parents by the time you were eight. So you didn't have although you had mother and fatherly figures you didn't actually have your mum and dad for very long in your life had mother and fatherly figures. You didn't actually have your mum and dad for very long in your life. So do you, does that shape you as a mother now and what you want to give to your kids that maybe you did not have?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was talking to one of our girls the other day. I was talking to Emmy and she was asking me some serious sort of life questions and I guess she's gotten to an age where she's aware that I lost my mum and dad young and she was asking me the other day, how did I deal with that? You know, she said, rach, how can you, how could you possibly go on? But the point of it is that the shaping in me was that you A didn't have a choice, you had resilience, and we've spoken about that before.
Speaker 2:I've also come to realise that I overcompensate with my children because I never want them to feel Like I had all of those feelings like abandonment, loneliness. I felt like I mean and it's not a criticism but nobody showed up for anything I ever went to like not a sports game, not a presentation, not a certificate, not, I don't know whatever the things are that parents show up for anything I ever went to like not a sports game, not a presentation, not a certificate, not, I don't know whatever the things are that parents show up for their children at school. There just wasn't that ability in our family. I mean, they were just doing such a great job of trying to keep, you know, food on the table for all of us, that that was an additional thing. That just wasn't possible. So I can see now, at Christmases or birthdays or Easter, I go really, really out there, because I can remember a Christmas where, when mum was sick, we just we just didn't, yeah, christmas just didn't happen. Or the Easter we went looking for the eggs and mum was going through chemo, so I think you know she forgot to hide any and so there were no easter eggs. So I think that sort of makes me overdo things.
Speaker 2:Um, but not to the point where I shortcut the lessons, like I think it's really important to still allow children to process pain, loneliness, difficulty, resilience. Um, I'm not that parent, I'm not the parent that gives important to still allow children to process pain, loneliness, difficulty, resilience. I'm not that parent, I'm not the parent that gives them everything on the day-to-day basis. I'm not the parent who over-modicottles. I'll have my moments through the day where they know they get really strong attention and focus, maybe tucking them in at night or on that drive to school. But I think we try to often shortcut the lessons for our kids the pain of, of learning about life and I think suffering in life helps us endure and helps us have empathy. Um so yeah, I'm still big on creating independence, chores, working for what you want in life no hand-me-downs, no freebies no, and I'm not the parent to go over the top at school if the kids get in trouble.
Speaker 2:I mean, I believe teachers are doing their best. So yeah, I'm still very protective and you wouldn't want to be on the side of someone who crossed that line, but for the majority, I still let my young children navigate life, because I think that's a critical skill they have to learn.
Speaker 1:And you see, like some people of similar age to you and children, you see, or teenagers, you see, say even incidentally, on buses, trains, out in the community, do you think parents have got it wrong there, where they do try and provide too much or give in too much, because we know naturally that teens, always they start pushing back. That's how their neural pathways are built, otherwise they'll never leave the nest, you know. So do you think it's a lack of education from parents about that and parents are giving up or giving in?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't even know about this word, work, but I think political. Otherwise, I think we've completely lost our minds with that, I think, and we've been reading a really good, or you have been, I put you on to. We've been talking about this parenting book where parents have forgotten it's okay to set the boundaries and that youth, young people still desperately need that. You know, I think we all got a bit scarred from childhoods of beatings or whatever, that we just suddenly decided that we were going to not let our kids feel any pain or any suffering or they could do what they like or eat what they like, because everyone was scarred from the Brussels sprouts, I suppose I don't know.
Speaker 1:Was it that? Or was it because we didn't want the conflict? I'm finding more and more parents don't want the conflict. It's easy for them because we're all busy.
Speaker 2:Is that a cliche? The conflict it's easy for them because we're all busy, is that well, I think? I think that I think that you mistake good boundary setting as conflict. I mean they're two different things. I mean, nobody likes to have a run-in, but in every experience I mean even my 22 year old now he still rings me to set the line because he, he wants the guidance. And I think, um, I think parents are afraid to do that for fear of repercussion. I think we're outsourcing it to schools. I think we're outsourcing it to technology. I think we are busier than we've ever been striving for, you know, materialism as a measure of success. But you know, I think it's really, really important, like, I think the kids still, the children still want to know what the rules are and they like that we say no to things. They like the safety of knowing what is okay and what is not okay.
Speaker 2:And the reason that I'm so confident about that statement is that I grew up in an environment where there wasn't time for someone to monitor me. There were no rules. I mean, there were, but there wasn't somebody able to check in on those things. So while my aunt and uncle were busy working, I just was roaming free right. And I remember distinctly having this conversation with my best friend, tara, at the time, and she said you know, you're so lucky, you know there's nobody nagging you what to do, because her parents were really present and they were fantastic at always knowing what we were up to. I guess, and I said what you're missing, tara, is that nobody cares where I am at night. And that's awful because and again I'm very respectful of Madge and Frank who raised me, it's not their fault, but there just wasn't the vigilance.
Speaker 2:And now I look back and think that's when I got into the most trouble, because I didn't. I had peers guiding me instead of parents guiding me, and I think the busyness of our lives has stopped us from prioritising our children. And all the research we've read, all the books we've read, everything comes back to us needing to be more present and I just sorry to ramble but I want to make a point of. We've tried two holidays recently with the four teenage girls and one of them was on a remote riverbank down near Mickalow Island, down on New South Wales coastline, near yamba and iluka, and there was nothing but us camping. The dogs were there, there was a fireplace, we could put the boat in and take the girls fishing, or they could fish out on the water themselves.
Speaker 1:Just there was a camp kitchen. That was it what was it?
Speaker 2:yeah, there was a basic camp kitchen and we have so many beautiful memories of that trip where there was colouring and singing and drawing and boating and swimming and the dogs and sitting by the fireplace.
Speaker 1:Catching our own yabbies. Catching our own fish.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then the next time I thought oh no, we'll spoil them. This time We'll take them to a park. That's a bit more teenage fun. So we went to wool eye and we stayed in one of those places that had the jumping pillow, trampoline thing ninja worry course it had everything in a caravan park that you think would be heaven for teenage girls in the middle of summer in the middle of summer, yeah, and it middle of summer, yeah, and it was the opposite.
Speaker 2:They were bored. They started looking for the attention of boys Every day. It was can we buy stuff from the shop? They just were not content and we both said we would never do a holiday like that again.
Speaker 1:Well, they wanted to come home early. I couldn't understand it. It was summertime and they had the whole places to themselves, really, with water slides everywhere, and they wanted to come home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so maybe it's because teenage minds are already so busy that they couldn't relax, but we found that the most restful, relaxing, fulfilling holiday with the girls was when we were out at Chinchilla on the riverbank or out at Nicolo Island same situation. So it just impresses upon me the importance of being completely disconnected from technology, from other people, I think as families. If you can take those trips away where there's nothing else but the good company of each other, I reckon they've been the ones where we've had the best time.
Speaker 1:Well, I think too, when you're relaxed, they say that your brain becomes more creative too. So the kids naturally become more creative. They're not looking for the next thing, the next thing, the next thing to keep their dopamine up and excitement up. They actually have to create it because they know after 10 minutes there's nothing else to do. Then they'll help make a fire, or they'll go try and catch a fish, or they'll set a crayfish trap, they'll get their coloring in books out and again. That's mindful and relaxing their brains. I think all those things are so important that a lot of these kids these days don't get that because they have to be on a stimulator all the time or parents think they need to be babysat with devices.
Speaker 2:It's nothing but speeding up their brains and it's actually having more, more effect than others well, we had um our nephew jesse, over at helen's, jess 25, and he was sitting at our um kitchen bench the other night over for dinner and he was saying he was still talking to gary about planning a big trip where all the woodford family went back to Chinchilla, which is where it all first began, right? Do you want to talk a bit about that?
Speaker 1:Oh, chinchilla's a place where you know they talk about rights of passage for a male that we're probably missing these days. I used to go out there all the time. Mum and Dad would drop us off there, because Mum and Dad grew up there and we only knew it because our nana and pa live there mum's parents, mum's side and we used to go there and they used to drop us off for school holidays and we'd camp and fish and shoot kangaroos and stuff. So it was all part of you know, the place of camping out under the stars or on a tent like the old-style canvas tent, billy T, you know just that sort of stuff which we absolutely loved. So that sort of tradition kept going. So my dad used to take me once a year with one of his mates on a little boy's trip and since then I've brought our family out there just to have a feel and taste of that and the girls just love it. You love it being back in the country as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just having campfire food, having the firelight, having the company of each other. Nobody cared that it was hot and dry. The girls found things to do, we read, we relaxed.
Speaker 1:I've got one of the best pictures there Sorry, I've got it in there Of the kids. I remember talking about this to the girls the other day, where we had the four girls out there and mum and yourself and me and we're out there and you had to go back for work, I think, and mum said, well, I'm coming home too, and I thought your two girls had come straight home as well, and they're like no, we can stay out longer and Winnie's just gone. Yeah, dad, we can make this work. They can go home in one Friday and take this, this and this and we'll share these couple of swags. And you've got to remember it was minus one, I think one of them was minus three degrees out there.
Speaker 1:So it was the middle of winter, gingerloin holidays, and the girls wanted to stay out there. So it was myself and four girls for two extra nights, I think. We stayed a total of five nights, with the two crazy catalogues as well, and didn't want to come home. And then I got a picture of them with their little headlamps on around the campfire carrying in or drawing up a business about merchandise and all this kind of stuff. It was so cool, I just loved it. It was so relaxing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I think we're similar that we both grew up with that country environment and even today, my 13 cousins on my mum's side and now all their children, my son and our daughters and all the cousins, they're still what they call CusCon, which is where all the cousins get together and do a trip where they just go and book out a place where everyone, like we, would have these old community hall dances and we'd buy and have a talent quest and we'd swim in the river and everyone sit by the campfire and get out the guitars and I think um, I think that's something that, like I was saying about jesse the other night was that jesse was still trying to recreate that childhood experience even you know, yeah, yeah, and that we had this discussion about.
Speaker 2:It's always the moments, it's always the experiences that we remember, not the gifts or the materialism, whether we had, you know, two cars and a swimming pool. It was never about that. It was about the company and connection and community around us.
Speaker 2:So, I think that's something I'm desperately trying to hang on to as we age to create a family environment where, like next weekend, we've got my two nephews flying over from Perth with their partners and my son's flying up from Canberra and my cousins will come up from the Gold Coast and like I don't know how many families are still doing that, but any opportunity and my niece will come in, hopefully from South Bank with her little boy I don't know how many families are still. You know, as soon as they know there's a family get-together on then everyone shows up. Good food, good company.
Speaker 1:Funny conversations, you know, laughter. That's good too, because they're all different age groups, right? So we get a feel of everything.
Speaker 2:That mentoring, hey, of even the older cousins with the little ones. And George, how old's Georgie? Georgie's two, two, yeah, so we all get to smooch our, you know, our little, the newest little addition, I guess, in the family, which will be nice. Another parenting comment while we're talking parenting that I wanted to add is that we've been very guilty of it recently. Just because you and I both help each other with the housework all the time, we forget that we have four teenage girls, and I said to you the other day it is driving me insane that we have not um structured chores as well as we used to like.
Speaker 2:It's like we've lost the will to live with it, but but just kids.
Speaker 1:We should have like a house that shines but.
Speaker 2:But I guess that's the point for the podcast is that when you think about the legacy stuff and what you want to leave I've always been raised like we were just raised that you know, my brother and I laugh about this you can't be useless. And so when you think about the children you're raising and they get old enough to go out into the world and build their own families, you've got to ask yourself does it really serve them for you to continue to do every single thing for them the washing, the cooking, the cleaning, the making of the beds, the vacuuming the toilets, like?
Speaker 2:the dishwasher, everything just taking out the rubbish like you and I laugh about this as teenagers. Well, we were doing a lot right washing, cooking chores, seven.
Speaker 1:I think I had seven jobs a night I had to do. Yeah, what time you feed the chooks and feed the dog and back then you could burn the rubbish and wash up and wipe up and put the cutlery out and plates. There's always something and you just expect them to do it.
Speaker 2:But the point is like that's why at 22 Declan was okay, because he was raised with those chores, Hang on.
Speaker 1:he can't fry an egg. That's not true. He can fry an egg. He tried cooking for us once. He burnt eggs. I don't agree with the cooking side of things. I think he was 15, then I don't know, I'm yet to see the cooking side of things. The other thing is yes.
Speaker 2:But the point is the legacy If you do everything for your young person, how will they do for themselves?
Speaker 1:Also there's a purpose behind that. When the kids have the old groan, the big sigh and the end of the world because I have to take my folding up or do some folding of the clothes, for example, or unpack the dishwasher, whatever it might be, you know that once they do that they actually feel good, they've done something. It's like making the bed in the morning. That's a big thing around that, Making the bed, the first thing you've accomplished for the day, they you've accomplished for the day and they hated that routine at the start. And even now when we say, hey, bed's not done, it's chipping them pretty harsh to say that's not good enough.
Speaker 1:That's actually not part of what we stand for, because once you start doing that for yourself, you can do it for others and be also going to teach other people to do that when you get older and I think that's one of the biggest things Once they have that purpose and feel pride in what they do and pride of being clean or pride of making the whole house look tidy, it sort of becomes inbuilt within them and you're doing a great job. I think, too, with the girls they're really interested because you love cooking and I don't like you having to clean up. But I do clean up because it's a beautiful meal. They do love the cooking. They do because you teach them how to do those things and always asking Rach, how do I make this?
Speaker 2:Rach. How do I make this Rach? How do I make that? You can see so much incidental learning happening there.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, even the painting, like sitting down and doing art together, and like Indy's recently come and asked me about goal setting or you know how to set positive manifestation, or wanting to do art, or rang me the other, text me the other day about an assignment. So I think that building that rapport, that closeness, that developing of skills together is something also that creates a bond. And I say, you know, as much as they don't want to do the chores, I've been reframing that to say, well, I know you don't want to do those chores. I've been reframing that to say, well, I know you don't want to do those chores, but that really, really helps me. I'd really appreciate it because I'm tired today or I'm struggling with that, or I'm feeling like I'm the only person. When you add that humility, I think they kind of it's like when you're sick they know they then want to pick up the slack and help you. So yeah, I think chores are important.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I think too. Just, they become more self-sufficient when they start moving out too. You can see that straight away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think we've spoken about it before, but Declan didn't get taught clearly being with me for a lot of his upbringing how to do what he deemed as man skills, which I couldn't do, and he's really struggled with that. Like he wants to, he still wants to know how to fix things he wants to be able to fix his car.
Speaker 2:He wants to be able to build things with his hands he wants to be able to you know, know how to mow the lawn, and I know that's traditional male jobs. We're saying, well, we're a you know, seeks, a society of equality.
Speaker 1:But but for him he's, he's still wanting to master those things so he feels like he can take care of his family when he has them yeah, but that's the thing we talk about too is, uh, you know, masculinity and that rise of passage, I think you know, and it's really hard they're saying, especially with boys growing up in a single parent family, when that parent is a female, the mum, because mum becomes from the nurturer and the lover and the caregiver and the one you come to the sympathies and support to, suddenly the disciplinarian. And especially as a teenager, when those boys particularly, I start, you know, frontal lobe switched off and a lot of emotions and a testosterone, aggression, a lot of risk. Mum becomes between carer, nurturer and also disciplinarian and there's a. That's a massive change, isn't it so for decky to go through that and then sort of miss out? Having you know a permanent father figure who was there that every single moment of the day all his life didn't actually miss out.
Speaker 2:Having you know a permanent father figure who was there that every single day, moment of the day all his life didn't actually miss out on those skills. Yeah, yeah, and he's. He's trying to. He's now, you know, watched him in the last few years really trying to shape himself as a man. What does a man? What is it? What is a man? What does it look like? What does it mean? How do I do it? Respectfully? What male stereotypical characteristics do I align with? What don't I align with the drinking culture? That's not really me, but it seems like all men in Australia are expected to drink, especially around things like his rugby union or university so, yeah, it's been really interesting watching him, you know, take that journey.
Speaker 2:You know I really respect the way he's approached it and, like all of us young developing he's made mistakes, but it's been really special to watch him take accountability and try and you know, try and be independent in evolving himself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And work on that process. We saw that with Jesse when he came in the other night, that they're still looking for guidance. They're still looking for people to talk to about how they shape out their futures.
Speaker 1:I'm glad both those young men are open with that, because we always talk about their good old days or whatever.
Speaker 1:I think my dad was married at 21 and I don't feel like I had the similar issues when I was 22 or 25, you know, checking back with a mother or feeling like I was in doubt of so many things. But I think for some, to actually young men, to be brave enough to actually reach out and say I don't know if this is right, but I'm trying this. You know what? What do you think you know, mum or whoever they're guiding, who are older, they've got, obviously, life experience as well, and I think that that is so much more kudos from what I'm thinking compared to someone who might just live with their parents and just not know what they're doing yet and live there till they're 30 or 35 yeah, but but even uh, I was thinking it was interesting that we've been talking a lot about this lately, about your programming and how you're raised or what conditions you to believe, what you believe in your life or how you should live your life, and we were talking to Jesse about this the other night that he spoke about.
Speaker 2:You know, it's natural to gain pressure around getting married. He's 25. He's very strong with his Christian faith. There's pressure or expectation, naturally, that he should now be looking to get married and get married and have a family, and you know we were just chatting to him about. Well, at the end of the day, jess, you've got to do it on your timings, based on what's right for you as an individual, and that's just one example. But I think, if I look back, like you know, you can ask me about the Matthew McConaughey book I think it's just so important to make sure that you're making your life choices for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's lines with your values? I think, yeah, and it's, and it aligns with your values.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, and it's really, really tricky, like to watch the programming kick in, like we talk about. Our girls at the moment are seeking the interest of boys.
Speaker 1:They're just starting to get to that age right where they're starting to notice boys and and their peers are looking for boys as a social status of who's being wanted or liked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the behavior is changing and we sort of look at this and and I'm really strong in my voice around stop looking for boys to find you. Just be you and be the best version of you and know what it is that you want and what. What are you? What are the terms for your life? Because I think we've still got a long way to go with that, particularly with social media influence at the moment, where they can be brave enough to stand alone and not fall into the programming or the requirements of where what do I call it social engineering? Where you're being skewered to join the massive following, where everyone's doing it on Instagram or Snapchat. So therefore, I must do it.
Speaker 2:Everyone's wearing that, so I think I should wear that. So we've spoken so many times to the girls about look back at your value set.
Speaker 1:That's number one.
Speaker 2:Does it match your values?
Speaker 1:Does it match your family values?
Speaker 2:Does going and doing those things that other girls are doing align with what you want for yourself? And if you dig deep and listen to yourself, you realise it's actually not really what you believe or support.
Speaker 1:No, but that's a challenge, isn't it? Because you know Atomic Habits, read that book and they talked about how we do things based on three reasons. One is individual If you're individually good at something, you'll pursue that. One is cultural it's based on your culture. You normally do that because your culture accepts you and that's what you want to keep that culture instilled and strong. Culture accepts you and that's what you want to keep that culture instilled and strong. And the other third one, which is the most popular one, is a social, because we want to be part of a group and that's how we're built and we're born on that.
Speaker 1:So when teenagers naturally push back on their parents, because that's what their neurological state is like, they have to push back and question values and question you know, decisions, etc. And then they've got a group of peers who they want to be accepted by, to be part of a social group, which is the norm for us, our society, and that group of peers is so strong. This book I'm reading at the moment says that if we allow those kids to do what their peers believe as part of that group mentality, that group think mentality and us, as parents, think, oh, they're just pushing back and it's normal, so we'll just stay. Stay out of their lives. It's one of the worst things we can do. We still have to instill, like you said, confidence values.
Speaker 2:What do you stand for, what is okay, what's not okay, and then be with them through that, that guiding time well, well, one of them was let's just take the dress um the outfits and and the pushback was well, everyone's wearing it and I was like I couldn't give two.
Speaker 2:Well, everyone's wearing it and I was like I couldn't give two hoots who's wearing it? That doesn't align with our value set. So that's not going to be an acceptable option and I think that's the key piece. Is that just because it's socially normal, you can't give up parenting. You cannot give up your parenting values, and I'm probably going to upset people with this commentary, but one of those examples was I was hearing about the whole furry conversation, the teacher was a furry.
Speaker 2:More about. I think it was girls' grandma was allowing girls to leave spaces for their tails because they identified as furries and they were kitty litters or I don't know. But but I just, I just challenge people to stop and think for a moment about what's the long-term benefit to the individual for allowing them to believe that they can, you know, self-identify in that way. What's the long-term? I don't know. Preparations, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to word it right, but I guess you know we're still quite old-fashioned. There are things that we will agree to because we've given it, considered thought, we've come to acceptance about certain things that are fair and reasonable and without judgment we will accept. But then there is also things within our family dynamic and our value set that we will not allow anyone to tell us is okay, regardless of whether it's been considered a social norm now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's my point is and maybe the tail option isn't the best example, but just because social media, the news, a movement, is coming through that says this is the way it needs to be.
Speaker 2:I think you and I have said to our family you'll need to stop, you'll need to think about that, you'll need to decide whether that aligns with your values and whether you support that, and then you'll need to decide, and that's all I would say is, if you decide it's a great idea to grow a tail or identify as a cat, well okay, let that be your decision, that you did the research, investigation and aligns with your values, not just because someone else told you, yeah, yeah, and we know the power of minority groups.
Speaker 1:Often minority groups, will you know, go towards other minority groups and they're still often ostracized. So it's a tough. It's a tough way of being, too like. People often go there for some identity, but unfortunately they often don't get that identity. Well, they do for a while, but then they realize they're still part of a minority group yeah, and don't mistake me, I'm all.
Speaker 2:I'm all for equal rights, but I'm not for being told what to believe. I will make my own decisions based on my own values and my own beliefs, and I think that's the piece that I find challenged with any minority group is when the minority group is still curving us socially to believe that needs to be what the majority group believes.
Speaker 2:I don't tell anyone else how to live. I don't expect anyone should tell us, socially, to believe that needs to be what the majority group believes. I don't tell anyone else how to live. I don't expect anyone should tell us how to live. That's really the principle I suppose I come from.
Speaker 1:And for the parents out there and the guardians and the single parents, whatever the family dynamic is, if you're looking after children I've said this before on GW Unspoken we discuss stuff we don't typically talk about but probably should, and this is a big one.
Speaker 1:I really think that as a family, whatever your dynamic looks like, challenge yourselves to do this.
Speaker 1:When you have a dinner conversation and everyone's relaxed around food usually it could be at the end of the meal actually have that hard conversation with the kids and say what do you think our family stands for? Try and get the values out from them, because when and it's actually a harder question often than you think but when the kids actually have buy-in about what they think that your family actually stands for and what some of their true values are, you can always go back to that when they start pushing back or the challenges. There's some things you don't agree with what they're doing, for example and you can always pull it back to those values and it's so important they might I think there's over 50 values out there, but they might pinpoint five that are really key for them and I think that's a really good start of where you can actually parent well and have that really close connection with them, because they'll have more of their bind about what their values are yeah and and um.
Speaker 2:Look, you know I obviously went there with something quite controversial for a lot of people, but I think the message I would leave, based on all of our readings, research and specialists we subscribe to, is that young teenage brains are developing. They are adaptable, they are susceptible to influence they're emotional they're emotional, they're not fixed, they're vulnerable, they're easily influenced.
Speaker 2:all I'm saying it is it is our job to guide them and continue to guide them and ask of them to be able to take time before making decisions based on what everyone else is doing, and if those decisions then play out to be still the same way they feel when they're 18, well then, that's okay.
Speaker 1:They can make that decision, then that's right.
Speaker 2:But I think we are what's that word? We are outsourcing the boundary, setting the decision making based on feeling like we need to be friends as opposed to parents, way too early. We are allowing our young people to do everything that we had to wait for until we were 18. On the basis, because it's the social norm. On the basis, it's because we didn't want to be as restrictive as our parents, and I would just say, coming from somebody who had none of that and has had to spend a lot of their 20s developing good, healthy boundaries by making lots of mistakes, that you're doing a really good job by remaining present, engaged, cautious and continuing to set boundaries, whether or not it's socially accepted or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have that strong family value above everything else. I think, too, it's hard, when we're in a society that's instantaneous and instant gratification too, to try and slow teens down to say it's OK to not get this now or not get that now or, you know, be in the moment of those values. Some of those values you're talking about and I think that's the biggest challenge I'm finding with teenagers is that it's expected to have everything now, yeah but when we were kids you'd have this.
Speaker 2:as children We'd have our families would say well, just because someone tells you to jump off a cliff doesn't mean you'll go and do it. Same principle applies.
Speaker 1:Just because it's become the social norm doesn't mean it's right yeah, but is there more pressure now because people can instantaneously get on social media and bag people and ostracize people? I think there's a lot more pressure now that social media has that. Our teens care about, which they shouldn't, but will now. Because of that, it's easy to do the online bullying compared to you know, we could sorted it out one day in the school yard and that was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes to all of that. But I also pre-empt what the girls are going to experience, which is naturally bullying, mean comments from boys and girls, pressure from boyfriends or girlfriends as they're older. All of that's a norm. It existed when we were young people, it exists now. But by pre-empting that, by having those conversations early, I find I'm always trying to just build up the self-esteem in our young people to be able to be resilient enough to handle that Like first day of school.
Speaker 2:This year. Both my girls and my nephew went to school and people they thought were their friends were mean to them yeah surprised me what. What I was able to do then was to navigate it around. People are emotional beings. They'll have good and bad days, move on, meet new people. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't rescuing.
Speaker 1:That's the difference that's you talked about earlier. It was about you're going to go through stuff where you just there's some shit you can actually you cannot control and you cannot control people. So rather than multicolour them and say it's okay, maybe tomorrow they'll come back to you and you actually go, then, like you said, the guy, but you actually instilled confidence into, hey, this is the big bad world out there.
Speaker 2:Let's, let's, let's build some resilience in yourself but also the fact that we're not perfect beings. People have bad days, everyone has a bad mood every now and then. Like the thing is, our young people need to know that the world isn't a pathway to happiness, it's. It's like the flow of the ocean Good days, bad days, tide in and out you know rough seas, calm blue oceans. Nice days in the sunshine, days when you feel like you're drowning and need to be rescued. We have to create adaptability in our young people so they don't have this expectation that everything looks like an Instagram reel. That's the piece is. Arming them to expect life to be full of good days and bad days creates a level of balance that allows things to occur and allows them to adapt to those occurrences, versus these huge, you know meltdowns when Over almost nothing.
Speaker 2:Everything doesn't go to the Instagram real plan. Yeah, I think that's. The biggest thing we're competing against now is the idea that everyone should be billionaires, and you know and have it now and and have it now and that everyone has perfect bodies and perfect faces and perfect relationships, and we're happy all the time perfect jobs, and yeah, it's. It's just it's it's so destructive. Um, what did you say to me once um the, the formula for happiness is what we have divided by what we want.
Speaker 1:So, if you're happier, just be grateful for what you do have, compared to comparing with others and dwelling on what you don't have. You know, that's why we talk about third world countries. Third world countries they often don't have Malnutrition is terrible. Their physical health is terrible on average because they're malnourished, but they don't have many mental health issues because they're not comparing. That's it.
Speaker 1:Latha went out there and just said like I think it was part of India and just said they all have the same uniform, the same clothes, they all do housework, they all wash their clothes, the older ones look at siblings, look after younger siblings. They're still expected to do jobs and he said there's no mental health issues because they're all the same. They're not saying, oh, I wish I had those nikes, I wish I had those 270s or whatever it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's the other piece, isn't it Right? Everyone's dying a slow death if they've got to wait for something longer than five minutes and even to the point of you know. I hope you won't mind me saying this, but my son and I had a run-in because he was at a wedding and he just didn't feel like being there. And I said it's regardless of whether you feel like being there, this day isn't about you today.
Speaker 2:This day is about celebrating such and such's wedding. You don't have to like it. You don't have to be enjoying yourself. You don't have to. You know, feel like a hundred percent, but you do need to tolerate this and show up for something because it's for your family. You need to show up for someone else.
Speaker 2:You need to serve them today and make it about them be present, yeah, and and I think that's an example of where perhaps I got the phone call to allow them the, you know, the leave pass and I I didn't give them the answer they wanted.
Speaker 1:You took back the line, yeah, but it's still a guiding principle, right?
Speaker 2:You still took back the line that said the life lesson was about that other person at a time, just because you're uncomfortable, yeah and lastly, I would say, is that there's so much depression and there's so much anxiety, but what we know is the magic bullet that people are looking for around. That that will always make an enormous difference is service to others.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I tell you know the girls this all the time and you know you are spending way too much time focused on yourself, thinking about yourself, thinking about the thinking. Just go out and do something for someone else less fortunate than yourself, and yeah. And what's the most happy. Yeah well, even if you can't be happy, the day's still being productive right, yeah. You've given something to someone else.
Speaker 1:But it's productivity, it's purpose still for somebody else, and that does give you a feel good in return. That nice endorphins in return. Well, we're nearly home.
Speaker 2:That was a long rant, wasn't it? Thank you for a great trip. Got on the soapbox a bit there, but no, it was good.
Speaker 1:I just appreciate the and I'm really grateful for our conversation, of our conversations, we have people probably listening going. Man, you guys talk a lot on deep stuff. You actually have fun, but I think this is actually enjoyable for us. We both, you know, often on the same page about parenting and also life and and I think it's really important that people are open into discussions with their spouse or their significant other, or even if they're their kids, if there's no significant other at the moment well, you talk about legacy, right For both of us, raising young people that serve the world, that give back, that have a strong value set, that contribute, not take from the world, is something we both really feel strongly about, yeah, and we get it wrong.
Speaker 1:but we like to read, we like to listen to others, like people and the experts in the space too, and challenge what their thoughts are, but try different things too to try and get our kids, I guess, be good role models for our kids too, because I think that's another one of the things we want to be is good parents yeah well. Thank you, darling, for joining me on GW Unspoken. We'll have you on again and look forward to you.