Occupational Burnout: Learn How to Find Balance in the Hustle

Are you feeling like you're at the end of your rope, juggling work and life? In this episode, we tackle the silent struggle of occupational burnout that's all too common among women. With empathy and expertise, Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, unpack the warning signs of burnout and offer transformative recovery tips specifically tailored for women. They'll guide us through stress-reduction strategies and self-care practices that sow the seeds of resilience. If you're manifesting balance and bravely confronting work-related anxiety, this conversation is your sanctuary, a place to find solace and reignite your inner flame. Join us as we walk the path to a harmonious work-life balance together – because you're not alone, and your mental well-being is worth fighting for.

In the bustling rhythm of our daily lives, where the melody often teeters on the brink of overwhelming, it's easy to feel lost in the cacophony of occupational burnout, especially as a woman navigating the tightrope between professional aspirations and personal well-being. Let's delve into coping mechanisms for women in work, tailored to uplift and empower. Together, with female leadership and burnout prevention at our core, we're not just surviving; we're thriving. Because, my dear, in this journey of ups and downs, remember, you are not alone.

In our upcoming episodes, we’re diving deep into the heart of issues that touch the very essence of what it means to be a woman in the workforce today. We recognize the unique challenges faced by women healthcare workers and educators, whose dedication often comes at the cost of their own well-being. Solutions to tackle burnout are on their way, designed to empower and uplift you. Let’s embark on this journey together, illuminating paths to resilience and joy in our professional and personal lives.

#ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife #StressManagementStrategies #AnxietyReliefTips #ResilienceBuildingJourney #MindfulnessMatters #SelfCareEmpowerment #WomenAtWorkWellness #BurnoutRecoveryJourney #FemaleBurnoutSupport #ResilientWomenRising #WorkLifeHarmonyTips #EndWorkplaceBurnout #EmpowerHerWork #StressFreeAtWork #MentalHealthAtWorkplace #BalanceForBetterCareers

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Transcript

Randi: 0:14

Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast. I'm randy. I'm And I'm Jess. And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges. And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone. Today we're talking about a topic that affects us all. So many women, especially in today's fast paced world, occupational burnout.

Jess: 0:36

That is such a good topic, especially right around now in so many different fields.

Randi: 0:41

Yeah. And especially with the holidays coming up soon, I feel like a lot of us are going to be hitting a wall because all those pressures of being like the kinkeeper and taking care of everything and being the elf and being Santa Claus and all the things. And right now, too, with all the false sports and everything, I feel like everybody's just hitting a wall that I've talked to in my life. And not only can this happen in your occupation, but just everywhere, just regular burnout,

Jess: 1:10

we're being pulled in so many areas. So find us and more resources on women's mental health podcast. com. And so Randy, let's go ahead and do our, have you ever thoughts.

Randi: 1:19

Have you ever thought, what exactly is occupational burnout?

Jess: 1:23

What are the main symptoms of occupational burnout?

Randi: 1:26

Can burnout affect a personal relationship?

Jess: 1:30

Who is at risk the most for having this kind of burnout?

Randi: 1:33

How can I prevent occupational burnout?

Jess: 1:36

What should I do if I think I'm experiencing burnout?

Randi: 1:40

Is occupational burnout a medical or psychological diagnosis?

Jess: 1:45

What is the difference between stress and burnout? That's a good question.

Randi: 1:49

Can just taking a vacation cure burnout?

Jess: 1:53

If only. If only. Remember guys, remember it is a vacation if your kids are not with you. Yeah. Otherwise it is a family trip. And it

Randi: 2:01

can cause more burnout. Yeah,

Jess: 2:02

it's a family trip. Okay. What are the long term effects of occupational burnout if I don't address them or if I continue to work where I'm being burnt out?

Randi: 2:11

Burnout is a huge issue for women that juggle work, not just work, but if you're a stay at home mom, like I categorize that as work. That's a

Jess: 2:21

lot

Randi: 2:21

of work.

Jess: 2:21

Yeah.

Randi: 2:22

I would rather go to work than be a stay at home mom. I'm sorry. More power to y'all. I stayed home for nine years and then when I had my second, I was working and I was like, no way am I going back to that. Managing your home and everything in between, it just can create a lot of stress that leads to burnout. So let's jump into that a little bit more, Jess.

Jess: 2:41

Occupational burnout is a state of emotional and physical and mental exhaustion. It's caused by prolonged and excessive stress at work. We can see feelings of being overwhelmed, being drained, unable to meet the constant demands and the pressures of your job whether it could be any job. We saw this after COVID. All of the doctors, all of the therapists, so many people like right now, it's really hard to find a therapist and that's because a lot of therapists have decided to no longer be therapists

Randi: 3:17

because we got burn out

Jess: 3:18

because we got burn out or they're seeing less patients because we got burn out and so a lot of these people I have a lot of doctors that are no longer practicing. I know a lot of people who are like, yeah, I'm good. I, I'm, I need to do something different. And so what it is, is it involves a sense of reduced accomplishment and loss of personal identity. You're just like,

Randi: 3:37

because you've been so overwhelmed and almost suppressed because of all the demands and the load on you that you just, you have nothing left to give. Don't even know what you like anymore. Like maybe you don't like anything anymore because it's really affected you. So the World Health Organization, or as we sometimes call Yahoo, has officially recognized burnout as a syndrome resulting from chronic workplace stress that hasn't been managed. If you're stressed and you're just not dealing with it, and it just cycles into this. burnout. it's really important to note that burnout isn't just feeling tired. It's not just being tired. After a long day, we can all feel that physical, tiredness. Even after a long project, right? This is a persistent, constant state of exhaustion, mentally and physically, and feeling detached from your job, your life, your family, and all those things. So Impacting your whole life and the way that you deal with things.

Jess: 4:42

And most of the time with burnout like this, what we see is that people go to poor coping skills. Because they don't have time for good coping skills and healthy coping skills. So

Randi: 4:52

they'll drink after work or they'll go out with friends, to happy hour or they'll grab

Jess: 4:57

fast food on the way home because they haven't been able to, or they'll just going to do nothing but drink coffee because they're so exhausted that they're not doing the healthy things that they need to be doing. burnout can affect anybody. So it's not just men. It's not just women. But it is really common among women though, because we face those, like what you're talking about earlier, the additional pressures of balancing professional and personal responsibilities.

Randi: 5:23

And let's be honest, we as women have a hard time saying no.

Jess: 5:26

Mm hmm. And

Randi: 5:27

instilling boundaries.

Jess: 5:29

And no is a complete sentence. Yep. Just so you know. No. You can just say no.

Randi: 5:33

Practice it today. No. Tell somebody no.

Jess: 5:35

Act like you're a three year old. No.

Randi: 5:37

Yeah. Nope. Nope. I don't want to do that. And the concept of burnout was really first introduced in the 1970s by a psychologist named Herbert Fruedenberg? Berger? Fruedenberger? Fruedenberger. Fruity Burger. Fruity Burger. Oh, I'm sure that's gonna be a great one. So he noticed that severe stress and high levels of exhaustion among workers in especially helping professions like nurses, doctors, psychologists, therapists, especially in, the health field. Teachers. Yeah, impacting their work and their life. And over time, this term, burnout, has expanded to include all professions because in today's modern age, the demand to work in the United States, let's Like, be specific with that has really intensified. Like we do not support our workers. We do not have good laws around what is healthy. Like we don't like, what is the common here? One week vacation, like two week, maybe we

Jess: 6:50

don't even have postpartum

Randi: 6:51

baby

Jess: 6:52

leave.

Randi: 6:52

There's very minimum support for that, depending on the state. Some states have better leave than others, but most states still do not. There's not a lot of sick time There's

Jess: 7:02

grieving, you get one grief a year, and if you happen to have two people that die, You're screwed. Good luck. Because you can only take your time for the first one. You're like, okay, but will this happen too? A lot of states and a lot of companies don't have that because it's so costly.

Randi: 7:16

We have like this hustle culture that I feel has been like, you're just supposed to work, work, work, work, work, and never take any time for yourself or your family or any downtime. And it's frowned upon even though they've done a lot of research showing that when people work in a positive. environment, they output more and they do better work. so

Jess: 7:37

it's like some of those big tech companies that have even here they have one of the big companies Sensi. They have a, you can get a meal a day. Yeah. They have a great, from what I've heard, they have a great cafeteria. Is that what it's called?

Randi: 7:50

Yeah. I've eaten there before. So like Google, like they have their own work bus that, takes people so they don't have to drive like they have oh, and it has

Jess: 7:57

internet so y'all can work on it as you're driving if you

Randi: 8:00

want. Nap pods and self care workshops, it's really a whole culture and environment. It's just not like that in, most industries or hourly paying jobs Retail

Jess: 8:12

around the holidays. Yeah. And yeah, exactly. So what we see with burnout is that this is really being linked to high workloads, a lack of control or autonomy over your poor work life balance. Sometimes it's like we were saying, even some cultures of work don't prioritize it. I'm hearing a lot of the companies are now saying you have to come back into the office. You have to come back into the office and their employees are saying, no, I don't want to go back into the office. They don't want

Randi: 8:40

to have that effect of how their work life and their load was so poor. And it's hard though, because a lot of these states we live in one too. It's a right to work state. So what that means is that you don't have a lot of rights. They can fire you for any reason.

Jess: 8:56

Well, other states was, an at will, meaning that you can still do it. But this one here, there's no lawsuit. And with the rise of technology, it's really made it blurry, between personal and work life, because now we can't disconnect and recharge. We are expected. I have people We're always

Randi: 9:13

online, right? Yeah. So people think that they always have access to you. Well, you have

Jess: 9:16

a phone, and most of us don't carry around two phones. I used to carry around two phones because when I was off, I didn't answer it. Now I got an app that I still don't answer. I didn't want to have to carry my phone and I didn't want it to be the same thing because I never knew it was like trauma every time it rang. Is it a client? Is it my mom? Is it a client? Is it my friend? Yeah, so it's one of those things that most people just use one phone,

Randi: 9:38

right? When I work in addiction if I ever got a phone call after hours, it was for somebody that overdosed so it was really hard to like You know when I went into private practice, I really had strong boundaries about I don't answer my phone after hours because it had been so emotionally draining for me. Of course, I made sure my clients, had resources if they needed to get help, but I was like, I can't keep putting myself in that situation where I'm just so triggered, like worrying that somebody is dying on the other end of the phone.

Jess: 10:10

And let's be honest, I don't answer my phone at all because nobody out there answers their phone. No, you can send a

Randi: 10:15

text message instead.

Jess: 10:17

All, yeah, all I do is we just go back and forth. And most of the time we're doing other stuff anyway. So most people want text messages. Yeah.

Randi: 10:23

And on top of it, like we were mentioned before with kin keeping, the added burden for women of being being the unpaid laborer, the help, the chauffeur, the maid, the caregiver, the dentist driver, yeah, the dentist

Jess: 10:37

maker, oh yeah, the appointment

Randi: 10:39

maker, the

Jess: 10:40

dentist maker. I know, I was like, I don't know if your kid becomes a dentist maybe.

Randi: 10:44

This all contributes to even more burnout, making it not just a professional issue, but a personal one. It's affecting your overall, life as a whole.

Jess: 10:55

And part of that with technology as well is that we did get used to being home a lot. We did learn that we can do our laundry, and then everybody around us says, but you got it done before, what's going on now? And so it's hard because we're like, we have to do all of this stuff. And so when you're trying to work, are you really working? Are you worrying about this? And so it's hard to prioritize or compartmentalize when you are working, because that is so blurred between the two, whether you're in an office or at home.

Randi: 11:24

Yeah, exactly. And this is why occupational burnout is so heavily impacting women's mental health. Because all of this combined leads to additional anxiety, depression, feeling, hopelessness, feeling like you're drowning. Then you lead into feeling disconnected from your work, from your kids, from your family, and that leads into then feeling unmotivated or cynical about your life, your job, your relationships, your colleagues, like everything just gets like this, hazy tint to it because You're just like meh over everything.

Jess: 12:05

that toll that we're talking about, it does spill over into your personal life. It affects so much of your relationships, your self esteem, the overall quality of your life, and physically, the burnout. It can manifest as, what, headaches you can have sleep problems. Yeah,

Randi: 12:21

insomnia. Oh,

Jess: 12:23

the ones where you wake up at three in the morning and you're like, I gotta go check my email. Or, there's other, like a weakened immune system. So many people get so sick when they're burnt out.

Randi: 12:32

And as women, we don't take care of ourselves physically either. We also push it down. There's so many other things to do. So then you're not doing any type of self care. You're not, taking yourself to the doctor and then you can get worse and worse and worse.

Jess: 12:45

And a lot of times we have good intentions. I'm going to set aside this time so I can do this. But then what ends up happening is, little Joey now has to go to urgent care, right? And something else pops up. There's a project over for, the other kids thing. And so we end up. saying okay and putting ourselves last because we have to, I'm doing air quotes, have to take care of whatever is going on. So it's hard.

Randi: 13:07

And that also leads to compassion fatigue, especially when you are in a caregiver role or a caregiving profession and you are already giving a lot emotionally like a therapist or a nurse or something like that. You can feel numb or indifferent to what's happening to the person around you. Yeah, you're just like, oh, whatever and that can be distressing because as women, we're naturally caregivers. So when we feel like so emotionally shut down that we don't care about anything, that's worrisome.

Jess: 13:39

It is. And it's not that we're putting a boundary in place is why we don't care. It's just literally, you're like, you're just like, yeah, exactly. And if you are a caregiver in your profession, it's really hard. it's good to recognize when you are having compassion fatigue

Randi: 13:56

so how can women. step forward and take control of this and really cope with burnout that they're having.

Jess: 14:03

The one thing I teach, and you and I always talk about, is set clear boundaries. Set the boundaries at work. Set the boundaries at home. And if it is, I'm done at four o'clock, be done at four o'clock. Do something for you that you need to. You got to go pick your kid at six, but you're done at four. Go do something for you that you need to go on a walk, go do something that's going to help heal you not run home and go hit the grocery store and do all of those other things that have to be done in the

Randi: 14:31

house or whatever. Those do something that's going to fill your cup and fill who you are.

Jess: 14:36

And it means also not checking your emails after work hours if that is your boundary, because all that does is spin your head up. I teach people to look like on a Sunday. So they know what they're having the next day. Mm-Hmm. what meetings they have. Kind of plan. Just kind of plan. Yeah. Don't do it right before bed, but just give yourself a once. Okay. What am I doing? Like a heads up? Yeah. Okay, cool. I'll hit that in the morning and that way you know what's going on and that's just good, healthy anyway.

Randi: 15:02

Yeah. I have a thing on my Google email and it. gives me, like, all the tasks, or what I have on my calendar for the next day, so it summarizes it. So it just sends me one email, and it says this is all the stuff you have on your calendar for tomorrow. I can just, I don't have to go through and look at a bunch of things. I just pull up the one email, and I see, do I have any meetings? Do I have any appointments? Okay. Check that. And then I'm done with that, so I don't have to waste a ton of time, like going through emails and finding separate calendars. Well,

Jess: 15:30

because then you get sucked down the rabbit hole of, Oh, I can just do this one real quick and knock it out. Next thing it's an hour later.

Randi: 15:36

it's so important to make time for activities. that feed your soul and replenish who you are as a person. Whether that's exercise, like going to the library, spending time, with your family, with your friends, or just taking five minutes to breathe. Self care isn't selfish. It's, it's, it's,

Jess: 15:56

It really is, because once you stop caring for yourself, you can't care for anybody else.

Randi: 16:01

Exactly. You can't pour from an empty cup, like we've said a million times. And something else you can do to be proactive is maybe talk to a supervisor or HR at your work.

Jess: 16:13

Yeah. Talk about your workload. Talk about what options there are, if you want flexible hours, maybe you want remote work. I have a friend who actually prefers to go to work during summer because our kids are home. And she's no, no, no. I'm going to go into the office. And she actually prefers the office because no one's there. She's I can get a lot done here and I'm not worried about not focusing cause otherwise I want to do laundry and everything else. So look at that and look at what tasks you can delegate, prioritize And

Randi: 16:40

a lot of HR, reps for the companies have resources for programs that you can use, that might help you if you are feeling overwhelmed.

Jess: 16:48

A lot of them can help refer to a therapist. They have EAP. A lot of them can have, a gym. Memberships. A lot of them have what else? I've had a couple that I've done like coaches, executive functioning coaches and different kinds of coaches too.

Randi: 17:03

So it never hurts to ask, and see if there are resources that can help you because a lot of times burnout can make you loose. So it's really important to have a good mindset of who you are and why you do the things you do, and maybe why you are in the career that you're in. And when you can reconnect with yourself, and things that you love about your job and your work, and you can bring in finding meaning outside of work, to fill that cut back up, it can really help shift your mindset and help with the burnout and the compassion fatigue that you're having.

Jess: 17:38

Yeah, I love that a lot of companies will have one bucket, instead of having sick days and PTO, a lot of them just have one bucket. And you You can take a mental health day. You don't have to call it in. You don't have to play sick. You don't have to do any of this. Yeah, you don't have to explain. You're just, I'm gonna take a mental health day or something longer so you can recharge and really feel like you're doing well. Even a short time away from work can provide the reset you need to return. I know when I start feeling burnt out, I just lower my caseload, change my day, maybe drop a day until I feel better. And then when I'm able to pick it back up or whatever's going on is done, then I just pick up what I want and move forward. And so I have the flexibility to do that. Not everybody does, but I'm also trying to recognize when I am getting burnt out.

Randi: 18:21

Yeah. And catching it. earlier on, once you start recognizing what kind of triggers it, or when it's starting happening, catching it before it gets like full blown, that you're like, I want to run away to Fiji, you know,

Jess: 18:34

so. And the other part too is being proactive on your days off. So I no longer will work the day after election. I take it off. I'm like, nope, I'm not working out. I'll work the election day, but the day after I will not work. because everybody has emotions are too high. Emotions are too high on either side. And so I have learned just to take it off. I've learned I don't pick up new clients a week before Christmas. It's just not going to be a good thing. Yeah. So I have learned to what I want to take off. I take two to three weeks at Christmas off because I want that time off because most of us take a week and it takes a week just to unwind.

Randi: 19:13

Yeah. That's like when you go on vacation and you're like, always like, I need a vacation for my vacation. Yeah. Because again, probably with your kids. So it's really a family trip. Just doing these things. She is advocating for herself and she is setting boundaries. And you should learn to how to advocate for yourself, use your voice and really assess your needs and be heard so that, you are getting through and that you are also understanding what you need and what The steps you need to take to move forward and get out of this.

Jess: 20:36

Mm hmm.

Randi: 20:37

Now, if you know someone who is dealing with burnout or you think it's heading to burnout town, how can you support them and be a supportive presence in their life?

Jess: 20:48

Well, one, I want you to check to make sure that you're not burnt out. Because if you're listening to somebody who's burnt out, you may not have it to give. And so that's okay to put that boundary to place and saying, that's not me today. But really you want to listen to them without judgment. Be empathetic. You can validate their feelings. We did a podcast on validating. It's something that most people struggle with offer support, maybe helping with resources, suggest a therapist. But again, if you're already in burnout. You're not the one to really listen to them to do this, and that's okay to put that boundary in.

Randi: 21:23

Yeah, then you can encourage them to seek professional help, if that is severely impacting them and you don't have the capability to be, there for them. You can say I really wish I could be there for you, but I think this would help you even more. And there's no harm or foul in doing that.

Jess: 21:41

No, and can do it in a way that says, I love you, I care about you, or I'm concerned about you. However, I don't have the bandwidth to listen to this or to help you right now because I'm struggling with my own stuff.

Randi: 21:54

Yeah, and you can still validate them It's okay that you ask me for help, but it's also okay that I have to set this boundary because I'm not in a place, mentally or physically or whatever it is to help you, but I'm so glad that you are prioritizing your mental health.

Jess: 22:09

Yeah.

Randi: 22:09

And sometimes just knowing that somebody cares enough. Even if they're turning you away, but to be like, I want to be there, but I can't right now. Just can be a positive motivation to take that next step and maybe get some more help. Mm

Jess: 22:23

hmm. Yeah, that's good. So Randi, let's go back and ask our, answer our have you evers. Okay. So Jess, what exactly is occupational burnout? Occupational burnout is prolonged and excessive stress at work, which leads to a state of physical, emotional, and mental exhaustion. It is characterized by feelings of energy depletion, reduced professional ability or proficiency and it also often includes a sense of cynicism towards one's job, like this job sucks. I hate my job. I hate my boss. Blah. Yeah. Also it's when you don't want to get up. You're like, I can't, I can't even get up. I don't even want to go in, I'm all stressed out on Sunday because Monday is coming. That is a sign. So Randi, what are the main symptoms of

Randi: 23:11

occupational burnout? So we can really see a lot of symptoms and these include chronic fatigue, insomnia, not sleeping well, forgetfulness impaired concentration. You just don't have the motivation, to focus on work. We mentioned some physical symptoms like headaches, maybe your stomach, gets really upset. Yeah, you get bubblegut. You might have loss of appetite or you might want to eat too much. You might find like you're getting a lot of anxiety, especially around work or, things on your to do list. Depression can creep in, you can get angry, you can get irritable and you can just really feel like, I just don't want to be here. I don't want to be. be doing this and I don't care at all. So how does this all kind of lead into affecting a personal relationship or do you think it can?

Jess: 24:01

Oh, it totally can. I think that the stress and the negative feelings that you get when you're burnt out, they spill over into every aspect of your life. It'll affect how you are with your kids, how you are with your husband. Maybe you're like, I don't even want to have sex. Because I am so burnt out and tired. Like when they're toddlers and you're like, I'm touched out, it's like the same thing. Yeah. You just don't have any. Just so overwhelmed. Yeah. Yeah. Can't do anything. Not one more thing. Exactly. And so it just causes a withdrawal from most people, which constrain all your friends, right? even me on like Wednesdays. I don't talk to people. Mm hmm. I don't start talking to people until probably Friday. Yeah. Because I'm like, nope, I'm not seeing nobody on Thursday. I don't see clients, but I will start seeing people again on Fridays.

Randi: 24:47

Yeah, because you need time to like reset. Mm hmm.

Jess: 24:50

Okay, so Randi, who's at risk for experiencing occupational burnout?

Randi: 24:55

Well, really anybody can experience it, but some people are, At a higher risk of experiencing it. Those with high stress jobs those who work exceptionally long hours without adequate breaks are more at risk. So people that work in healthcare, people that are in caregiving positions long hours, people that work night shifts, things like this maybe somebody like in the police, like some, a therapist, like high stress jobs, long hours, a lot of overtime, yeah. I can all compound So they are at a higher risk of experiencing occupational burnout. Jess, we talked about it a little bit, but let's go deeper into how can we prevent occupational burnout.

Jess: 25:43

So come up with strategies that include very clear work life boundaries. And that is not letting your life affect your work and not letting your work affect your life and really having a hard Cut off time. Honestly, like I'm hard, hard cut off. I'm out.

Randi: 25:59

Yeah. I'm done. I'm not

Jess: 26:00

act like you got to go pick up a kid from daycare. Even if your kid is 26, you're like, I'm out. Otherwise I got to pay by the minute and I don't want to do that. So when you can set those really clear boundaries and really talk with your boss about that and your coworkers, because once you start setting those boundaries, you allow for others to also set the boundaries. Which, honestly, if we all keep these boundaries Yeah, you're gonna affect

Randi: 26:24

your whole work culture, maybe it's not great. So you need to take a step so that you can pave the way for other people.

Jess: 26:31

Exactly. And because you're giving them permission as well. Maybe have More regular breaks throughout the workday. You've heard Randy and I talk about we have a sit and stand desk because sometimes I got to stand, I got to wiggle. I got to get in a different position, not just cause I'm ADHD, but because I've been sitting for seven hours straight. Just

Randi: 26:50

for your physical health.

Jess: 26:51

Exactly. Engage in hobbies that you enjoy. Don't do it. Hobbies you don't like, but hobbies that you enjoy, Social activities that are outside of your work. Maybe some practicing. I can't say that practicing stress management techniques, mindfulness, exercise, yoga, even if you can't get to a yoga class. You can do a couple of poses at your break.

Randi: 27:18

Oh, yeah, there's ton of free resources and out there There's ton of free online videos like yeah, and I liked how you mentioned Socializing outside of work and I feel that this is a good point to make A lot of times, we, everything is around work, like because we are in such a closed environment, all of our friends are from work, like our co workers are our friends, Have some social friendships, relationships outside of work so you can take a full break from it too, I feel is a good point, a healthy point, like especially if you are really, really struggling with burnout, is to have that clear divide.

Jess: 27:58

And sometimes I know I've done this with Brandi, I do this with my neighbor as well. My neighbor friend, friendly neighbor, I don't know. But we'll do. How do you go neighbor? Right? She says Hey, I got some errands to run. Do you have free time? I want to hang out. Absolutely. And I've done it with her. That we just hop in the car and we talk and do our thing and we get our coffee and we're doing our errands. Run to Target. Run to Target or whatever we're doing. Nothing like, major. But we'll do these kind of quick errands and we get to talk for an hour or two. Yeah, you're just

Randi: 28:25

spending time together, but you're still getting things done, but you can still feel supported while you're doing it.

Jess: 28:30

Exactly. Kind of like

Randi: 28:31

kill two birds with one stone. One stone? Yeah.

Jess: 28:34

Yeah. But as long as it's mutual and you're not always with somebody else doing their errands, that's when it works really good. that way you can spend time and get out of the house because most of us, I don't know about you, but most of us can't have conversations without our kids coming in and talking to us. Oh yeah. Or repeating what we say or having to whisper when we talk about certain things. So it's just nice to get out of the house and do that.

Randi: 28:58

Yeah, have that little bubble of time.

Jess: 29:00

Exactly. Exactly. The last thing I want you to do is really ensure you have a healthy work environment. That includes having supportive leadership. That includes having the correct ergonomic, whatever you need, if you can. And

Randi: 29:14

support from HR and things like

Jess: 29:16

that. Exactly. Support from HR. And really just get what you need for work to make sure that you have everything because some people don't realize they have, that they can ask. There's these expectations. That they're gonna be doing this stuff and I'm like, why would you do that? That doesn't even sound like it's legal Well, nobody said I could do it differently. I'm like, did you ask? Right and no Well, you should probably ask I don't think that's even legal

Randi: 29:40

Especially if you have like a strained relationship with a supervisor I feel a lot of times we feel like maybe we shouldn't go over their heads But if it's affecting you this much and your whole life Then it's time to advocate for yourself and talk to somebody else And see if, like they really have your best intentions going forward. And like what you need to do to make it a better place. If you really do want to stay there in that environment.

Jess: 30:06

That's an interesting thing because. You also might decide you don't want to stay in this environment and you no longer want to do whatever you're doing. That's okay too. I usually say, don't make quick reactions, maybe take a break, figure it out, maybe work on a backup plan. I think everybody should have a plan B.

Randi: 30:27

Exactly.

Jess: 30:28

If this doesn't work, what else do you want to do with your life? And sometimes we don't know because we never take the time to find out what plan B is.

Randi: 30:36

Yeah, and it could be, something amazing.

Jess: 30:38

Exactly. Who knows? Randi, what should I do if I think I am experiencing burnout? What do we want them to do?

Randi: 30:45

First, it's essential to acknowledge it. So be self aware that it is happening. Talk to a supervisor about your workload. If you are a stay at home mom, have that conversation with yourself. Supervisor, my workload is too much. Or if you're talking to your partner. That this is too much, seek support from your family, your friends, from a professional therapist, and think about potentially taking a break from work if it really is that strenuous to rest and recover. Some, states have, you can take, yeah, FMLA or disability leave So if it is really affecting your overall wellbeing, your physical, your emotional, your mental health, take that break to rest and recover and come back.

Jess: 31:34

And sometimes what that's called is also a medical leave of absence. Yes.

Randi: 31:38

That's what I was looking for. And

Jess: 31:39

And I was like throwing out all the weird PTO, I don't know. All the acronyms. But you can get what's called a medical leave of absence. You have to have it signed up. by your doctor, an actual physician therapist used to be able to do it, but they're no longer able to sign off on those. And so you have to go to your actual primary care doctor. Now, I don't know what your work rules are, what their laws are, what state you're in. So you want to look at that first to make sure. You have to research that. But that is an option if you are so stressed out that you just can't even do it. A medical leave of absence option, a medical leave is an option. A medical leave of absence, yeah. That's it, I'm like, what am I trying to say?

Randi: 32:17

Blah, blah, blah. So Jess. Just Is occupational burnout a medical diagnosis?

Jess: 32:23

It is not right now. I do know what we talked about earlier that it is recognized by the World Health Organization. Sorry, I just have to do that. It is something that we saw a lot of in the last probably five, six years. And so I do see it probably coming in. This is where that diagnosis of compound PTSD that doesn't exist but should exist because it is a form of PTSD and it just is a, it compounds. And so we think about it as PTSD because it's like a, this big thing that should happen like a shooting. But. When we look at compound PTSD, it's just all the things that have added up. All the little things that have

Randi: 33:06

just built up like a brick, just lay brick upon brick upon brick, and then you have this huge fortress, and it's like you can't get through it. Exactly, but that doesn't exist

Jess: 33:15

either, so sorry guys.

Randi: 33:16

Well, hopefully. We keep advocating for it. I know, exactly. And that's why we gotta keep using our voices and keep, bringing these issues up and talking about it so that we can get the power to change this. Exactly. Exactly. What is the difference between stress and burnout, Randi? Stress is usually involved with over engagement. You're just like taking on a little bit too much. An excess of emotion and physical energy. It's just like all at once, as well as feelings of urgency and hyperactivity. I gotta do it now, now, now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a deadline deadline, a burnout on the other hand is really characterized by this overall disengagement, dissociation, emotional exhaustion. Like stress is so like a small time period where like we were talking about like this, is compounded. Like it's all the little things over a long period of time. And really you find yourself lacking motivation with the feelings of hopelessness and you just feel like disillusioned with work and life and all of it. So that kind of leads into, sometimes we feel like I was talking about running away to Fiji. So is a vacation going to cure your burnout?

Jess: 34:23

I wish. Real quick though, I want to go back. When you were just talking about that, what it reminds me of is. Stress is more anxiety, whereas workplace burnout, this is more depression. Yeah. This is what we would probably see. Like you're dragging down, like you just have this The sad guy from that, that cartoon. What is,

Randi: 34:42

what is, what is The sad guy from that cartoon is so specific. I know, you know that

Jess: 34:46

one cartoon. No, the the five emotions and the teenage girl. Not In N Out, In N Out.

Randi: 34:50

Oh yeah, In N Out. Was it there? No,

Jess: 34:52

no, no. Blue. Yeah, she's a girl. Sadness. Yeah, sadness. That's it. Sadness.

Randi: 34:57

Blue. Blue. Is that her name? Can we, can you see how our brains piece together stuff? Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. And here we go. Sadness. Yes. Yeah. So all the emotions. Yeah. Ping ponging. Exactly. And

Jess: 35:10

if you can look at that. And then the other one is the anxiety, the anxious one. And I can see that as more of the stress related. I don't, that's just where my brain went right now. All right. So back to Vacations to Fiji. Yes, please. We will be going there soon.

Randi: 35:24

I'm not very good with occupational burnout. I need to run away to Fiji.

Jess: 35:30

Okay, again, I'm going to stress, a vacation with your family is not a vacation, it is a family trip. Okay? If you're going to take a family trip, it may or may not help you based upon how your family is. Some families are cool, some families have drama, it depends on what you're bringing. Yeah, are you going to be caregiving

Randi: 35:50

the whole time, are you going to be taking care of, crying babies, are you staying someplace that's actually like relaxing and like safe? things like, are you going on a road trip in an RV? No. Is everybody

Jess: 36:01

in the backseat going over there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? It can temporarily help, but. But most of us honestly won't go on vacation. Without checking our emails because when we get back, we're going to have 2000 emails. And so most of us will work while we're on vacation. So you're really not Disconnecting and that's the problem right there is that if you are totally not disconnecting Like you should go somewhere where there's absolutely No internet

Randi: 36:30

that's hard for me because being in social media like everything Is a piece of content so it's every vacation every moment and I really have to learn You To step back and only work sometimes when I do take, time off. So she's not

Jess: 36:47

taking vacation. She's taking a working trip. It's

Randi: 36:49

a work trip. Yeah, everything's a work trip. It's a work trip. That's totally definite.

Jess: 36:53

All right, Randi. What long term effects can this burnout leave if we don't address it?

Randi: 37:00

So it. It can be really impactful. Like we were talking about, like chronic PTSD chronic mental health and chronic physical symptoms. It can lead to cardiovascular, heart, disease and issues. Be that person that dropped dead at work because you stressed out. Yeah, well, more than stress, like we're saying, but it It can really increase your risk, like we were talking to certain infections because your immune system is suppressed when you're so overly stressed and your body and your mind is just weak. Because your body is going to make you slow down, whether you can or not. Whether you want to or not. You're going to get sick and that's it. You're just going to dig yourself into a hole. And then this leads to. Sorry, just

Jess: 37:46

your grave is what I was like. Yeah. Oh, great. Great. Okay.

Randi: 37:49

Miss happy positive over here. It can really lead to, I'm laughing, depressive symptoms. It can lead to heavier, depression and it can potentially like influence your career path because if you're not happy in your job and you're like, what to do? The F do I do now because I don't know and you might make rash Decisions and impulsive decisions if you're not feeling great or you might

Jess: 38:15

tell your boss what you really think of them and because you no longer give a shit and then you're gonna go Home and be like, oh, hey Yeah, let me take that back because I forgot that I'm married and I have kids in a mortgage. Yeah,

Randi: 38:27

oops exactly So that's all we have on today's episode on occupational burnout, and we really hope that this discussion has given you some insight into what burnout is, how it affects you as a woman, and ways that you can address it and cope with it.

Jess: 38:44

If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and like, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. Visit our webpage. We have so much more information on there for you. Okay. WomensMentalHealthPodcast. com. We are Brandy and I, we are really committed to supporting other women on your journey because we want them and we want you and everybody else to have improved mental health and a better work life balance. Oh my gosh.

Randi: 39:13

Because burnout is not. a personal failure. It's not like a mark on your record. It's not saying that you failed at your career or life. It's a signal that your body and your mind is telling you that something needs to change. Something needs to give. Something is not right. You need to take care of yourself. You need to set those boundaries. You need to seek support that you need because you deserve to feel well. You deserve to feel whole. And to be happy. Yeah. And maybe that job does blow and you got to move on. Yeah. So it might just be like a tipping point to be like, okay, I know I need to do something about it. And now I'm going to do it. Don't be afraid of, change and maybe going for that plan B or that plan C or Z or X, Y, Z. Thank you for listening and take care of yourself.