Role playing how to deal with work place bullies

Have you ever felt belittled, ignored, or isolated at work? You're not alone. In this empowering episode of 'Women's Mental Health Podcast,' we tackle the tough topic of workplace bullying and how to confront it with dignity and strength. Join Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, as they guide us through role-play scenarios designed to reclaim our power, touching on assertiveness training, creating safer workspaces, and healing after abuse. Whether you're struggling to find your voice against a workplace bully or seeking strategies for coping with workplace stress, this episode is a beacon of hope and solidarity. Let's navigate the murky waters of office harassment together, transforming from victim to victor.

This podcast goes along with our previous podcast "Silence the Bully, Amplify Your Voice: Empowerment at Work"

This was a special request from one of our listeners. Listeners we hear you! 

#ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife #StressManagementStrategies #AnxietyReliefTips #ResilienceBuildingJourney #MindfulnessMatters #SelfCareEmpowerment

Head to our website to learn more about sponsorship opportunities, as well as stats. 
https://www.womensmentalhealthpodcast.com/p/advertise/ 

Transcript

Jess: 0:14

Today, we're doing something a little bit different. We had a special request from one of our listeners who had asked us to role play how to deal with a workplace bully. And you know what? I loved it. I loved, loved getting that email. It was so awesome because I'm like, Oh my God, somebody really is listening to us. they wanted us, they loved us. There are

Randi: 0:34

thousands of people that listen to us. But yeah, but it makes it more real when we do hear from our listeners okay, this is resonating, with them. It did. And

Jess: 0:42

honestly, the listener was like, I love everything, but I hated this episode because, you didn't tell me how to really deal with it. And I was like, we did and I loved it. So I'm like, all right, listener. Here you go. We are going to do some role playing this time on how to deal with a workplace bully. And this can go anywhere in your life, but we are going to focus this on the workplace bully.

Randi: 1:03

So find us and more information on the women's mental health podcast. And we are going to go through several role playing scenarios designed to help women practice dealing with workplace bullying, along with examples, responses that encourage assertiveness and boundary setting. while being professional.

Jess: 1:24

Yeah, you can't punch him in the throat like I want to tell you to do. You can't do a karate chop at work, okay? So these are going to be some practical ways to respond when you are facing somebody at work who is a bully. And really I want you listeners to listen to see if you can tell who the bully is and And how the other person responds. I'm going to see if we can, we can rotate to be a bully and not a bully and not make me cry because I get frustrated in these kind of things sometimes. So don't

Randi: 1:49

make me cry, Randy. And she cries when she's frustrated, though.

Jess: 1:53

Randy cries all the time, but I just cry when I'm frustrated. Okay. Scenario number one, we're going to talk about the undermining colleague, the person who is always trying to make you look dumb, trying to get under your skin, trying to make your work look like it's petty or that you're unimportant. Okay,

Randi: 2:12

Jessica, you didn't include the right figures in that report again. I guess we'll have to fix it like we always do with your work.

Jess: 2:19

So again, I can't punch her in the throat. And I can't call her a bitch,

Randi: 2:25

but she is in her,

Jess: 2:27

I am my head. You can do whatever you want in your head, but put a smile. So

Randi: 2:30

stay calm and stay assertive.

Jess: 2:32

Exactly. Randy, actually, I double checked my figures before I submitted the report. If there's a mistake, I'd be happy to review it with you and we can correct it together.

Randi: 2:41

No, I don't have time for that. Just try not to mess it up again.

Jess: 2:45

Again, Randy, it's important to me that we get this right. So if there's an issue with my work, I'd like to go over it so one, I can improve and two, I can see where the miscommunication is and what the expectations are. Let's go ahead and schedule a time so we can review it.

Randi: 3:02

Okay, so Jess gave a very calm but firm response to the kind of snippy response that I was giving her. The goal here is to not let the bully push you into acting emotionally and feeling defensive.

Jess: 3:18

Not nah, my numbers are right. Yeah. No, I did them right.

Randi: 3:21

I did that. Like, why are you questioning me? You always question me. You never

Jess: 3:25

like my work. That would be defensive.

Randi: 3:27

Yeah. And instead, she took ownership of her work. Mm hmm. That she wanted to make. She found value in it. She wanted to make sure it was right. And trying to find the issue if there really was one, even though she knows deep down there isn't. But, we all make mistakes and maybe there is a

Jess: 3:43

number wrong and I'd like to go ahead and fix it. So why don't we meet to do it? so if you can respond and then hold them accountable to the, well, let's go ahead and talk and let's schedule a time now. And she's setting that that's the

Randi: 3:55

expectation, right? That she wants the feedback to be constructive, positive, and specific.

Jess: 4:03

So let's do another scenario. Number two, the overbearing supervisor. I need you to finish the report by the end of the day. Oh, and I also need you to cover for your other colleague who is out. And also, by the way, we don't have any overtime pay for staying late. So please get all of this done or just don't clock it.

Randi: 4:23

I can finish the report by the end of the day, but with my current workload, I won't be able to. Take on any additional tasks. Can we discuss priorities so I can meet your expectations without sacrificing the quality of my own work? Well, it all needs to get done. So just figure it out. I understand the urgency, but I can only take on what's realistic within my working hours.

Jess: 4:46

Ooh, and that's key right there, guys.

Randi: 4:49

If this is a priority, I'll need to delegate some of my other tasks to

Jess: 4:56

Oh, that was good. That is so good. Cause what you're doing there is setting a boundary saying, I will not be staying late.

Randi: 5:03

You will not not be paying me.

Jess: 5:05

And it's a very firm boundary where you are communicating your workload saying, I cannot get all of this done. If this is a priority, then fine, but this will have to go to somebody else. We're

Randi: 5:16

communicating that this is a priority over this. And that it's not all gonna get done because that's not realistic. No matter what you think I should just should do

Jess: 5:26

and then when your boss says figure it out Well, you're not paid for that. Your boss is paid for that. You're

Randi: 5:31

my manager or my boss You're supposed to be figuring this out. You're supposed to be managing the schedule. You're getting the management pay. Yeah, so no

Jess: 5:39

So now let's talk about the gossiping co worker again. You can't punch her in the throat

Randi: 5:43

Daydream about it though, but yeah. Okay. Jess, did you hear what happened at the meeting yesterday? I can't believe how clueless. Oh, I see you put my name. Okay. Let's start over. Cause yes. Don't block me. I did put Randy's name in there. Randy that bitch, she's always causing trouble. Okay. Wait, the gossiping coworker. Okay, let's do it again. Okay. Did you hear what happened in the meeting yesterday? I can't believe how clueless that girl was about the presentation. She's always so lost.

Jess: 6:21

Ooh, and all she wants to do is get you to talk about this by the way. Okay. So I'm going to respond in a very calm and direct way. I'd appreciate it. If we could keep the conversation professional, if you have any concerns about my work, I'm open to feedback, but I prefer that we address it Directly rather than through gossip. Oh, I was just joking. No need to be so sensitive. I Understand. However, those comments can create a negative environment. I'd prefer we keep our discussion supportive and constructive Now I do want to say doing this is very very direct mm

Randi: 6:59

hmm

Jess: 6:59

and I think there's another way we could do this. So I want to do another scenario with this because sometimes that's going to alienate the other person by saying it this direct. Now it's cool if you don't like this girl and you don't want to gossip, you've made a very clear boundary.

Randi: 7:12

Or, yeah, like I would just say I don't want to talk about another co worker behind their back

Jess: 7:17

Yeah, or I might say, I'm not really sure she did seem lost, I don't know her that well, so I'd rather not say something about her because I don't really know her and I don't know what's going on with her. That is another way of saying, I don't want to talk about people. It can be seen a little passive aggressive, but sometimes. It depends on how you want to do it. And when anybody says, I was just joking JK, don't be so sensitive. Don't cry about it. There's another response I want to give to that. But no, no, literally. But what I'm saying is that we can say, it's not being sensitive. However, what I am doing is I'm putting out expectations that I want to be kind to people. And so you can say that, I'm not being sensitive, I'm being kind to people that I don't know and I don't know their situation. Yeah, because I

Randi: 8:05

mean everybody has a bad day too, I always say, you never know what that person is going through. It's not my place to judge.

Jess: 8:12

Oh, yeah, my, kid calls me out on it all the time. All the time. Oh my God. I'm like, you cannot talk crap with that girl. I swear this generation, which is actually a good thing. Okay. So Let's go through a critical colleague. Like a,

Randi: 8:22

like a, somebody that needles you. Ooh. And like picks at you and stuff.

Jess: 8:26

Okay. That idea doesn't really make any sense. I don't think you've thought it through enough. Let's just move on.

Randi: 8:31

I appreciate your feedback, but I'd like to explain why this idea could work. If you have concerns afterwards, we can discuss them more and make improvements. And that is the dismissive. Colleague. Hmm. So

Jess: 8:45

that's really what this one is. Yeah, so

Randi: 8:47

they just want to dismiss you in front of others, especially in a meeting Situation where there's other people present and they want to show that you are lacking in some way And so they're trying to come behind you and push you and you Have a response for this

Jess: 9:03

and when they say let's move on what they've done Now is they've just squashed you so you can't talk and what you can say also is well I hear what you're saying and I appreciate your feedback However, I have given you 10 minutes and now it's my turn to do my 10 minutes So I would like to use my 10 minutes in explaining why I think this might work so there's other ways you can respond to that, but most of this really is being assertive and calm.

Randi: 10:16

Now this is an exclusionary situation. Somebody who is always excluding you from things, whether like it's work or social things And they're trying to isolate you. Oh, I didn't think to invite you to the team lunch. I figure you wouldn't be interested.

Jess: 10:30

I'd appreciate being included in team activities moving forward. It is important for me that I'm part of the group, and I'd like to contribute both socially and professionally. I'd also like to to allow me to give the choice of whether or not I can attend or not. So please keep inviting me, I would really appreciate that. That's one way. The other way to do it too is Randi, read that again.

Randi: 10:52

I didn't think to invite you to the team lunch. I figured you wouldn't be interested. Huh.

Jess: 10:58

I find that really interesting. Can you share with me more why you think I wouldn't be interested or what I'm doing that's coming across as uninterested? Because what I'm doing now is calling them out on it to say, the minute I say, why do you think I'm not interested? I pointed a finger at them and they're going to get defensive.

Randi (2): 11:15

Yeah. But

Jess: 11:16

if I say,

Randi (2): 11:17

hmm,

Jess: 11:18

that's interesting. Can you, tell me more about what I'm doing that makes you feel like I'm not interested? Because maybe I've done something. You used all I

Randi: 11:25

statements. I tried. It's hard, but yeah. When you try to shift it Oh, It's a way of being like, calling them out, but in a polite way.

Jess: 11:34

Well, and it's in a way to say, because maybe I did do something that dismissed them. Maybe they're upset because I said no once because my kid was sick, and they didn't know that. Yeah, that's,

Randi: 11:43

that's too they might assume something about you, and then you're taking offense over it, and maybe because you didn't ask, and they didn't Ask either again, miscommunication is happening. And then you're building a relationship based off of that. And maybe it was just again, like a miscommunication, a misunderstanding that neither one was aware of.

Jess: 12:04

But, this way you're also

Randi: 12:05

saying, I need to be invited if it's a team. so this is a situation where the boss is super critical and gives very vague criticism. So you can't really fix it or address it, or they're criticizing you personally that doesn't have anything to do with work, and it makes you feel incompetent. And there's no constructive feedback and no real like solution to it. Mm hmm. Okay. I don't know what's wrong with you lately, but your work is just not up to par. I'm open to feedback and want to improve. Could you clarify which specific areas of my work need attention so I can address them directly?

Jess: 12:42

Oh, I like that because you've gone through and said, Which area? Yeah. So tell me where. You can't just say I'm all shit.

Randi: 12:48

Cause there's gotta be something.

Jess: 12:50

You're always late. You're never on time. That's not a true statement. Yeah. You can't make a generalization. Exactly. And if there's an issue and it's not up to par, what exactly is up to par?

Randi: 13:00

What does that mean? What are your expectations? Again communicate. What are your expectations? This is what I have maybe in my contract or written down or what we've discussed before. Has that changed? Have your expectations changed? Can you let me know so I can make sure I am meeting those expectations? Or how do I need to shift things in my work environment so that I can meet those expectations or this workload?

Jess: 13:25

Exactly. All right, so this next scenario this is a supervisor who is constantly micromanaging you, questioning every decision, and really, again, nitpicking every small error in a very unproductive way, making you feel incapable of doing your job well. Why

Randi: 13:44

did you choose this method? I'm not sure you know what you're doing at all.

Jess: 13:48

Oof. The minute she said, why did you choose this method? I immediately got defensive because it's calling me out like that. Like why? Immediately my body was like, oof. Okay. I'm confident in the approach I've taken based upon the project's needs. If there's a different way you'd prefer, I'd be happy to discuss it. So we are aligned moving forward. That is a very confident, I'm good with this, what's wrong?

Randi (2): 14:13

Mm hmm.

Jess: 14:13

I don't see anything wrong with this. Yeah

Randi: 14:15

again saying oh What are the expectations? I thought it was a B and C and this is what I have Why are you saying this doesn't meet that,

Jess: 14:24

So this is responding in a way that is not defensive. Because the minute you get defensive, they have won. Yeah. And they are That's what they're looking for. They're looking for it because They're looking for

Randi: 14:34

any emotional That they gotta Yes. And they're annoying you and they're thriving off of that negative feedback you're giving them. And so you want to stay centered and not let them agitate you.

Jess: 14:49

Exactly. And honestly, I also want you to look at your body language when you're getting that way. Yeah,

Randi: 14:54

because that can convey a lot.

Jess: 14:55

Yeah. If you are crossing your arms or you're crossing all of your body, you're pushing away, that is like a protective thing. And so we want to have open

Randi: 15:05

language. Communication is body language. I don't know. It's 70 percent or something. It's huge. It's huge. It's why

Jess: 15:12

during COVID. Babies were having a hard time reading facial expressions because people were wearing masks

Randi (2): 15:19

And they

Jess: 15:19

found that was a milestone kids were not having is because they weren't able to read it And they didn't get the smiles, which I thought was interesting. Okay, so let's do the next scenario

Randi: 15:28

So this is somebody that's manipulative in your work environment They constantly are maybe taking credit for your work, especially in front of Higher ups or your, we all know those people. Yeah. They're trying to climb the ladder at your expense and they make it seem like their contributions are more valuable than yours.

Jess: 15:49

We did a great job on that project. I made sure everything aligned perfectly with the company's goals. It turned out fantastic. I'm glad

Randi: 15:59

you brought up the project. I handled the design and the execution of the key elements, which I'd be happy to discuss in more detail with the team. Taken back.

Jess: 16:08

Oh, I love that. That's like those group projects in college.

Randi: 16:12

Yeah, and calling out specifically what you did, you So that there is no

Jess: 16:18

room for error in that. And you also are saying, I, I handled the design and execution of the key elements. That is great because the other person said, I, and so you are, you're literally taking it back saying, yes, I did this. And so that way you can call what you did. And I think that's wonderful.

Randi: 16:38

And, and I love that because, Usually the person who is expecting the other person not to say anything. And so then if they're called out Oh, well, what did you contribute to the design? And they have no idea because they didn't do it. Yeah, no, they're that kid that says, I'm going to be in your group and doesn't show up. Okay. So this is somebody that intimidates in a power position. So like a supervisor or a boss and they're using intimidation tactics, like raising their voice. making veiled or vague threats about your job security because they feel like it's going to keep you in line. If you don't step up, we'll have to talk about your future here.

Jess: 17:18

Oof. I take my work seriously and I'm committed to improving. If there are specific areas I need to work on, I'd like to have a constructive conversation so I can address them and meet expectations.

Randi: 17:29

Boom. Constructive

Jess: 17:31

conversation.

Randi: 17:32

And those are your

Jess: 17:33

expectations. And that is a direct line and they may not like it and that's okay. Because what you did was you have called them out on what it is. And you can also respond in another way saying, I hear what you're saying, however, I need more details about where you would like me to step up because I feel that these areas that I'm working in, I'm meeting expectations, however, if there is something different, please let's address these.

Randi: 18:02

Yeah. And can we also talk about my future here? What does that look like? When am I getting my raise? Really? Are, do you really see, me, growing here and a future here or you can, gosh, you can say,

Jess: 18:14

I'm so glad you brought that up. This is passive aggressive. I'm so glad you brought that up. I really would like to talk about my future here. I really love it here. I want to continue. And I think it's time for me to look at the areas that you'd like me to work on and the rays that's going to go along with that. Oh, yes. There are ways to do that. Now that's a little bit more passive aggressive and sometimes. I will say, I actually said this, I say

Randi: 18:40

that's assertive,

Jess: 18:41

but yeah, maybe it's aggressive, aggressive. I don't know. I did actually have this conversation on the way over here today that with a friend of mine that I said, I will tell people this is what the therapist says. However, if you're asking what your therapist would say, I might say it this way and sometimes I will do things depending on the situation. I will take it that way, but normally I try to put it back on the other person that says something like, Well, I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly. Can you please explain to me the areas in more depth that you would like me to step up in? Yeah. Because I want to put it back on them.

Randi: 19:15

Yeah. Because usually it is very off handed, flippant comments. That are, they're doing it just because they're using it as a tactic or they're not caring. Yeah. And so that really makes them have to pause and think oh shit, what am I doing? How am I talking? How is this being perceived So this one is silent treatment, which is silent. That's a strong form of abuse. This happens a lot in relationships too.

Jess: 19:42

Stonewalling.

Randi: 19:42

Yeah. And so a coworker or a manager maybe ignores you or avoids you or withholds information from you that might like harm like your job or your ability to move up.

Jess: 19:54

She's currently silently refusing to answer any of my questions I've answered. So this is what I would say. Hey, Randi, I noticed there's been a lack of communication recently, and it's really making it difficult for me to do my job. I'd appreciate if we could improve communication so that we're working together effectively.

Randi (2): 20:11

Hmm.

Jess: 20:12

That's one way to do it. Another way I could respond is, Randi, I noticed there seems to be something going on right now with our communication. I'm not really sure what it is. I'd like to talk about it because it feels like I am not getting all the information I need in order for me to do my job successfully. Have I said or done something that has upset you or has shown or makes you think I'm not capable of doing this job? I'd like to communicate that so we can work on this because I do take my job seriously. So now I've called you out twice. Yeah. Yeah. You're not talking to me. Why are you withholding information? And there are other ways of doing that.

Randi (2): 20:53

Hmm.

Jess: 20:55

Oh, and the most fun one public humiliation. She's making faces. Okay. Somebody is criticizing you in front of others in front of a meeting. They're belittling you or your work. And they're really just showing that you're not very smart is what they're trying to say. You are not smart and they're doing it in front of. Everybody. This is like men mansplaining and they try to talk over you. Oh, oh, that drives me crazy. Okay. She just rolled her eyes. Okay. This report is a disaster. I'm not sure why I even trusted you to handle it.

Randi: 21:26

I'd prefer that we handle feedback privately so I can address my issues with you constructively. I'd like to go over the report with you to understand what can be improved.

Jess: 21:37

I like that. Okay I'm wondering if there's also another way we can respond to that when somebody's belittling you in public, like in a meeting, to say, do you think it'd be appropriate to say, I'm going to interrupt you here for a second. And I literally have my handout because I want the physical and the word. I'm going to interrupt you here for a second. I'm not sure what is being said, however, my report was done correctly. And I would like to go over that with you. If there are any issues I'm happy to talk, talk to you about that in a different scenario or after the meeting, I don't feel that this is an appropriate place to have that conversation. That is actually being direct and calling him out.

Randi (2): 22:15

Yeah.

Jess: 22:16

Your way is a little nicer, so it depends on whether or not this person is going to stop you or not. What would you do, Randi? I would

Randi: 22:23

say that I don't agree with that assessment, and I would appreciate us sitting down and going over the report line by line if there are any discrepancies, so I can fix the issue. Okay. Done. Yeah, we're gonna call you guys out. So More tips for responding like we mentioned before.

Jess: 22:43

Don't punch them in the throat.

Randi: 22:44

Don't punch them in the throat. No karate chops. No karate chops. Stay calm. Stay composed. This disarms, like sometimes it feels okay, we're like shutting down. We're pushing it down. We're not being true to ourselves. We're not letting our emotions out. We're not

Jess: 23:01

yelling at them and telling them to fuck off. Yeah.

Randi: 23:03

But this really disarms the bully. So if you think about it that way, that you're putting this tool in your arsenal and it's going to throw them off of their bullying game and that it keeps the conversation productive, and then it's going to help your long term goals and work environment stay positive. You can shift your mindset by the way that you think about it.

Jess: 23:26

It's not being weak by not yelling back at them. What it is doing is showing how powerful you really are. Yeah, because you are being calm and you are being centered And you are saying that is incorrect Or you're saying let's go ahead and take a look at it

Randi: 23:41

And I feel like eventually too if you respond that way Other people are going to see the way that they are bullying and responding And eventually too that will come to light Also, too, go to HR, if you need to. Yeah.

Jess: 23:55

Also, set your boundaries. The thing is the whole you're not going to work late. You're not going to work past 4 30, whatever that is, set your boundaries, be polite, but firmly assert what is, or isn't going to work for you and your environment. And if somebody continues to, insist that you work till eight o'clock every night and you're not going to, And they're not going to listen to your boundaries. Again, either that is a conversation that you take up the chain. Maybe it is not the job for you because they did not say that in your contract, or maybe this is their expectation and it's unrealistic because they're putting their stuff on you. So just set your boundaries.

Randi: 24:31

Another thing is to document, document your interactions, put it on a calendar and a planner, keep records of these instances, what they said, what happened, who was there. Yeah, who was there? If anybody saw it or heard it? So if it escalates, you have documentation and dates of when these things happened. And then when you do need to, or if you need to, involve HR or management. You can show that this behavior has happened, there's a pattern, it's persistent, and so it can be addressed, formally, and then you have remembered, exactly what has happened, because sometimes it's easy to forget, and you're like, did I imagine it? Did they really talk that way to me? I don't, and then you can be like, oh, wow, Like they did. This is I even just told this to a friend who was in a situation where like somebody was talking negatively to them. And I said, document it because sometimes you forget like the way people talk to you and treat you. And then you're kind of like, Oh, like maybe it wasn't like as bad as I thought. And then I'll be like, go back and read my journal from five years ago. And Oh, this is why I cut that person off. No, like they're horrible. Like the things that they say and do that's not okay. But sometimes we're kind of like,

Randi (2): 25:49

Oh, maybe it wasn't like

Jess: 25:52

that. And also what Randy had said earlier is go to HR, go to management, go to your boss, ask if it continues, ask for some help, ask for either intervention, ask for advice, figure out. When you do go and seek support either, like I said, from HR or friends, go and see what can be done or what their recommendations are. Because sometimes this is happening to several people. I had a neighbor, this is years ago, in my condo, and the neighbor's mom was actually in hospice upstairs. And I knew this because she had told me. And the lady that lived downstairs from her came up to me one day and was like, Oh, she is so awful. She came down and yelled at me and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And I said I am so sorry that that happened to you. I said, her mom's upstairs and she's dying right now. I don't think she told you that. I said, I know she's struggling with this. And I said, I think the noise was really disruptive because her mom is in the living room right now. And the girl that lived downstairs was like, Oh my God, I didn't know that. She didn't say anything. And I said, I know. You don't know her that well. And then she actually went and apologized to her and said, I'm so sorry. I didn't know. And they became really good friends.

Randi (2): 27:02

And so

Jess: 27:02

sometimes when you get a different perspective of what that person is going through, we don't all respond greatly in those situations, but she took it off and it was great. They became really good friends after that because she was like, I thank you for letting me know is what she said. I didn't handle that correctly. And so it was actually, it was a good thing. Yeah, that's cool. So sometimes when you get support, you can go, Oh, this is what's going on. Maybe I can give them grace or maybe I can talk with them about it or talk differently about it. Yeah, you can

Randi: 27:30

see another perspective of it. Exactly. So we hope that these scenarios have helped you learn how to respond with assertiveness while being able to set boundaries in a professional atmosphere.

Jess: 27:41

And listener who wrote us, I hope this helped you and I hope you're not disappointed in us on this episode. I really want you to email us back and let us know. Did we hit the scenario? I really want to know. And honestly, part of me goes, if we didn't, We might have you just do a face to face with us via Zoom. Yeah, so we can see. So we can see what your scenario is, and so we can walk you through it. Yeah. I would love to do that. All right. Goodbye, guys.