Art of Flipping the Script...for your mental health

Ever felt like you're alone in your struggles, as if no one quite understands the battles you're facing with your mental health? In this heartening episode of we dive deep into the art of redefining our paths to healing and happiness. Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, two seasoned therapists who've dedicated their careers to empowering women, will share their profound insights on breaking through the mental health stigma, transforming personal hurdles into powerful, uplifting stories of resilience, and embracing self-care as a pivotal tool for recovery. Join us on a journey of self-discovery and solidarity, because here, you're never alone.

In the art of flipping the script on traditional narratives, it opens doors to tailored coping strategies and insightful resources. Whether you are looking for coping strategies or simply wish to understand more, there are resources geared towards providing support and guidance. 

In the upcoming episodes of our podcast, we're diving deep into the heart of what it means to rise, heal, and thrive as a woman.  We're challenging mental health norms, shining a light on the real and raw narratives of hope and healing that too often go unheard.  Our episodes will serve as a psychological well-being guide, tailored specifically for women, focusing on building a community of support that uplifts and empowers. Join us, as we embrace these crucial conversations, fostering a space where every woman’s voice is heard and her story valued.

FAQs

What does "flipping the script" mean in a conversation?
Why is it important to change the subject gracefully?
How can I change the subject without offending the other person?
What are some signs that I should change the conversation topic?
Can you give examples of phrases to use when flipping the script?
What if someone keeps bringing the conversation back to the uncomfortable topic?
How can flipping the script be beneficial in professional settings?
Are there any situations where it's better not to change the subject?
How can I practice the skill of flipping the script?
What should I do if my attempt to change the subject fails?

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Transcript

Randi: 0:14

Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast. I'm randy. I'm And I'm Jess. And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges. And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone. Today we're diving into a skill that doesn't get talked about enough, but can be a game changer in social, professional, and even personal situations. The art of flipping the script, or how to change the subjects with grace and confidence.

Jess: 0:43

So when we talk about flipping the script, it's about preserving your mental health and respecting other people. It's a powerful tool in your communication toolbox that allows you to navigate conversations with finesse while safeguarding your emotional and mental well being. So if you can learn to embrace this skill. You're gonna watch your interpersonal relationships, whether it's at home or, with people at work, your mental health needs are going to be successful.

Randi: 1:11

Find us and more information on womensmentalhealthpodcast. com. We're going to jump into our have you ever had these thoughts.

Jess: 1:19

What does flipping the script mean in a conversation?

Randi: 1:23

Why is it important to change the subject gracefully?

Jess: 1:26

How can I change the subject without offending the other person? And this is huge.

Randi: 1:30

What are some signs that I should change the conversation topic?

Jess: 1:34

Are there examples or phrases to use when flipping the script? And honestly, as therapists, we have them. Yes.

Randi: 1:41

What if someone keeps bringing the conversation back to the uncomfortable topic or something you don't want to talk about?

Jess: 1:47

How can flipping the script be beneficial in the professional setting?

Randi: 1:51

Are there any situations where it's better not to change the subject?

Jess: 1:55

How can I practice the skill of flipping the script?

Randi: 1:58

And what should I do if my attempts to change the subject fail?

Jess: 2:02

Ooh, that's a good one. So first, let's talk about what does flipping the script actually

Randi: 2:08

So flipping the script is essentially the art of redirecting a conversation or sometimes diffusing a conversation. It's about knowing when and how to change the subject in a way that feels natural and respectful.

Jess: 2:23

This skill, it is not gaslighting. It is. It is none of those. negative kind of connotation. You're not trying to

Randi: 2:29

control the narrative.

Jess: 2:31

Correct.

Randi: 2:31

You're just trying to, maybe, gently move from something that is negative. It's maybe the person can't read the room or, they're going into a territory that's triggering for you or something else. So it's redirecting.

Jess: 2:46

Exactly. And this is a skill that's useful when that conversation starts to feel uncomfortable or invasive or unproductive, whether it's steering away from gossip or deflecting unwanted personal questions. Because people do that. And you're like

Randi: 3:01

yeah, what do I say? How do I react? Yeah,

Jess: 3:03

exactly. Or shifting the focus in a heated discussion. Flipping the script is going to allow you to, control of the narrative in a sense, but it's going to actually allow you to diffuse it. So you are not going to have to go down somebody else's path or a path that may not be very comfortable or easy. It could be dangerous for you. This topic came up because somebody was telling me they had gotten home late, they were in an Uber at I don't know, midnight, and somebody was talking and then all of a sudden they said some really uncomfortable things and they were like, Oh, here I am by myself with this dude. And they were like, I don't know what to do. And I was like, okay, that's when you have to diffuse it or change it or shift it back. You got to flip the narrative or flip the script on that one. And that way it goes back to being comfortable.

Randi: 3:49

And this saying comes from storytelling and film. filmmaking where flipping the script refers to a sudden change in the direction or perspective of the story. So in conversations, it's like hitting the refresh button or like the do over button. I like that you're rewriting the narrative in real time, you're guiding the dialogue in a way that feels more aligned with your needs or values, or a more positive flow.

Jess: 4:14

It's like imagining you're at, the dinner table with a relative that asked that uncomfortable question of, so have you finally got a job?

Randi: 4:23

Yeah.

Jess: 4:23

And you're just like, or do

Randi: 4:24

you finally have a boyfriend? Why aren't you married? Why aren't you

Jess: 4:26

married? Where are your kids? Do you own a house? And you're just like these are uncomfortable. So as women, it affects us because we often feel the need to be polite, Say nice things, avoid conflict. Even if we endure uncomfortable conversations, we're expected to do that for the sake of harmony, peacemaking, which is bullshit.

Randi: 4:47

Yeah, I'm rolling my eyes because when you do that, you're just taking that on and that can lead to stress that can lead to resentment that can lead to feelings like you don't have a voice and that you're oppressed in certain situations. And when you learn how to flip the script, it really empowers you to set boundaries with it. out confrontation because usually if you're having a hard time with this already, you're not like wanting to jump right into the deep end of the pool of confrontation with somebody. So this really helps you protect yourself and your bubble and your mental and emotional well being.

Jess: 5:26

Exactly. And this is going to help you with your confidence when you do have an awkward conversation. If you have the tools to gracefully redirect a conversation, it can make you feel like you're more in control of yourself, not everybody else, but of yourself, whether, again, you're at a family gathering, a work meeting, or you're on that weird, awkward date that somebody's asking you stuff and you're just like how do I answer this?

Randi: 5:51

How can we all embrace this skill and make it part of our everyday lives? Let's break it down.

Jess: 5:57

First, we have to practice the art of redirection. We need to use phrases such as, Oh, that's interesting, but have you ever thought about blank? Or, I was just thinking about. And that can go ahead and transition the conversation away from whatever they're talking about.

Randi: 6:17

Another way is to acknowledge and then redirect. So you could say, I hear you, but I'm curious what you think about this and lead into a different answer. topic, so you can be like, I still want to know your thoughts, but let's talk about thoughts about this that are good thoughts.

Jess: 6:36

Well, it's not even that I want to hear, I want to hear your thoughts is I hear what you're saying, however, and then you can change the subject, right? The otherwise is normalizing. your boundary setting. You know us in boundaries. We love our boundaries boundaries. In fact, we have a friend who has Randy going boundaries, bitch, as her ringtone, which I think is hilarious. Okay, so it is okay to say no. I know we haven't said that in a long time, but it is okay to say no if you are uncomfortable something. It's not rude to say, I'm not sure I don't want to talk about that.

Randi: 7:11

No is a complete sentence.

Jess: 7:13

I know. And that's, look at me, I couldn't even do it.

Randi: 7:15

I know. She's like cringing over there. And I'm like, why are you cringing? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Jess: 7:21

One of the things I do a lot of times, I also say, why do you ask?

Randi: 7:25

And then if somebody says it, redirects it back on them. So it puts a spotlight, they're trying to maybe spotlight you or make you feel uncomfortable and you're putting that back on them.

Jess: 7:34

Why do you ask? And if they tell me, I was just wondering, okay, cool. And then I move on with the conversation. So I've never answered them. And they could ask again, I could like, Hmm, then that's when I'm like, well, I'm not sure I want to answer that. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that or that's not something I really want to talk about right now, if you want to be direct. It is okay that we don't have to respond to everything. I know we feel as women we have to answer to everything. But silence or redirection is a healthy choice.

Randi: 8:01

Yeah, and I also feel like silence can be an answer too. Oh, not

Jess: 8:05

saying something is still saying something.

Randi: 8:07

Yeah, Another step is to show support for others that are practicing flipping the script. So how do we do that?

Jess: 8:14

Mm hmm Validate their choices, if someone is changing the subject respect their shift and sometimes Randy will do something and I'm like I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate your boundary Because I'm like, I see what you're doing, I like it, and I got it.

Randi: 8:27

also too, when you practice this yourself, it encourages others to do the same without fear or judgment. And Jess and I are also like, okay, when we hear your boundary, we see it, okay, that's good. And I need to do that too. I'm not doing this right now. It's a good reminder. Yeah. When you practice it, other people see it. And that inspires them to do it,

Jess: 8:47

especially if you're going to practice it in what I would call like a low pressure situation where you can practice this. So that way, the more we do it, when we do get that marathon of, Oh crap, I have to redirect this.

Randi: 8:59

Yeah. When you are in a super stressful situation or with somebody, that is going to antagonize you.

Jess: 9:04

It just feels more comfortable because it rolls off your tongue and it's been practiced. Let's go through some scenarios here. Cause basically. People like when we actually banter back and forth. Yeah, and

Randi: 9:13

role play. What could happen? So okay, let's say that there is some gossip going around. So if someone is gossiping, you can say, I'm not sure about that. But speaking of work, did you see that new project?

Jess: 9:26

Oh, I like that. So instead

Randi: 9:27

of like the water cooler talk, maybe like a redirect that you're not gonna engage in that gossip about the other person.

Jess: 9:35

Yeah. Or you can say, I haven't heard that. Hmm. Let's go to lunch. Another is when, oh, my favorite unsolicited advice. My God. Do you know how many people I get giving me advice as a woman who does woodworking? Like seriously, somebody the other day was telling me. Really? Make it stop. They were telling me that, well, you put your hair up, right? Because you would hate to get your hair caught in a machine. Motherfuckers, have you not seen me do, I, I post videos and my hair is a hot mess and top of my head. I cut the little, I wear hoodies, but I cut the little strings because I don't need those going into the woodworking machines and strangling myself. Anyway, that's my, I'll go back to my, okay, anyway, let's go back. When somebody offers unsolicited advice. Try. Thanks for the input. I'll think about it. By the way, have you tried the new coffee shop? sometimes I will. I'll be like, okay, cool. Thanks. And then, I'll think about it or I'll give it a try and I move on because I'm like, whatever they're trying to help, but I don't want to encourage it by ooh, tell me more because I don't want to hear more.

Randi: 10:35

Yeah, and I had to learn this very quickly, having a larger social media following. that people were going to try to tell me, things or say things on my video about my life. I had to be like, okay thanks. And I'll take that in consideration. Or Yeah, maybe I'll try that. And I just, Left it at that.

Jess: 10:56

Let them just let them be, let them do their thing. My personal favorite was the one that got mad at you because you were talking about savings and you had your car in your ring and you're like, how do you think I got this by getting my savings? My God. All right, let's do scenario number three. Let's do personal questions. Ready?

Randi: 11:13

Okay. So if someone asks something that's too personal, you can say, Oh, that's a long story, but tell me, how's your new job going? Or how's your new hobby going? Or how's your new relationship?

Jess: 11:26

Yeah, that's where you go, Ooh, that's complicated. And then you just move on.

Randi: 11:30

Yeah, I don't have time to go into that right now. But thanks for asking.

Jess: 11:33

No, don't even say thanks. Don't even say thanks for asking, because then they're going to ask again. And Right? this is another boundary that you're going to put up so you can still say things like, well, why do you ask? Again, that's that, why do you ask?

Randi: 11:46

Redirect.

Jess: 11:47

Yeah. Hmm. That's interesting. Okay, so let's go through and do our have you ever thoughts. Randy, what does flipping the script mean in a conversation?

Randi: 11:56

It refers to the skill of changing the direction of a discussion or topic of conversation tactfully and smoothly. This can help steer conversations away from triggers or uncomfortable subjects and towards more positive or neutral ground. Jess, why do you think it's important to change the subject with tact and gracefully?

Jess: 12:18

If we can do it gracefully, it helps maintain really healthy boundaries and positive interactions. When we become negative, it just makes it feel awkward and everybody gets weird and they think there's this bad thing behind it. It really just allows you to protect your mental space without seeming rude or disinterested. It's going to help your relationships. Because these are going to be about mutual respect and understanding again. Let's go back to, the political divide. I don't need to know what side you're on. You don't need to know what side I am. And, I've even been there. My, my daughter actually called me out in the car. I don't know if I've said this before. We're with a friend of hers there in the car. And I was like, so what does that flag at your house mean? And I didn't know, but my daughter goes, Mom, you're not allowed to ask that stuff anymore.

Randi: 13:09

You've been put in time out. I

Jess: 13:10

got put in, I was like, you are probably right. I'm going to not ask that question.

Randi: 13:15

Well, I got into a huge thing with my sister. She will not discuss politics with me. And I'm like, you are a woman and you should do this and you should. And I was like, whatever. Let them. I was like, okay, you. But she put a boundary up with you. She did. And you didn't like it. I did not like it. I was like, I'm your big sister and we don't have, you can't tell me no.

Jess: 13:38

But she told you no, but the way she did it, she could have done it with more grace that says, that's not something I'm comfortable talking about with you. I think she was just blunt and says, I'm not telling you.

Randi: 13:47

Well, she was like, I don't talk about dad with it. I don't talk about you. I don't talk about any issues. Like it's my, and I was like, Oh, she kept her boundaries with you. I was like, for once, I was like, all right, fine. And then I let it go because I was like, whatever that's something that she feels strongly about. And probably because I wouldn't like her answer.

Jess: 14:06

Probably not. So then Randy, I'm going to ask you, how can I change the subject without offending the other person then?

Randi: 14:13

So begin by acknowledging that what. was said before, and then smoothly transition to a different topic. So you might say, I appreciate your points on that topic. Have you heard about

Jess: 14:26

blank,

Randi: 14:26

This shows that you were listening. But then you're guiding the conversation elsewhere.

Jess: 14:32

Oh, I like that. Because you're not dismissing what they said. You hear them. You're just not engaging with it. You're

Randi: 15:27

validating that you were actively listening. Yeah. But now you're validating. Let's move on to a new topic.

Jess: 15:34

Exactly. So Jess,

Randi: 15:35

what are some signs that you should change the conversation?

Jess: 15:39

When you feel uncomfortable. I know as women, we get this. Okay, I get this. I know most of y'all get this, this gut feeling. When you get that gut feeling. I want you to listen to it. I don't, we're not going to go into the deep dives of what that is or where it is, but when you feel uncomfortable or stressed or notice that others seem disengaged or upset, these are clear cues that changing the subject might be best for everybody there and involved.

Randi: 16:10

Yeah. Read the room.

Jess: 16:11

Read the room. Trust your instincts. They're really, really powerful indicators of what is going on. Okay. And again, if you can't change the subject and you're so uncomfortable, literally change your body position and say, or

Randi: 16:24

get up and leave the room.

Jess: 16:25

Exactly. I was gonna say, I have to go use the restroom. I'll be right back. Go to the restroom, not even just

Randi: 16:31

by, well,

Jess: 16:33

sometimes you're with like your boss and you're like, you gotta get back. So you're like, I'm going to use the restroom, I'll be right back or I'm going to get a glass of water.

Randi: 16:39

But if you're like in an uncomfortable situation, like on a date or something like that, get up, get up and leave. Like you don't. Oh, anybody, anything.

Jess: 16:47

No, but if you're with family and it's awkward, and you're like, Oh, we're all stuck in this house because it's snowing outside. Be like, I'm going to use the restroom. I'll be right back. And that's what I teach people. Literally get up and leave and come back. And if they're still on that damn subject, try to change it again. And if not, be like, Oh, you know what, I just remembered mom wanted something and get up and leave.

Randi: 17:07

And don't let people gaslight you either. Or make you feel bad for doing that and he said we're stuck in a house with snow that literally happened to me I was stuck in a cabin. I imagined a cabin. We were snowed in in yosemite and Somebody made a comment that was very very upsetting to me So I got up and I left and I went to the bedroom and then they started throwing a fit like I was being like a diva and I said I literally got up and left because I didn't want to engage in this and because It's so heavy on my heart right now what has just happened and that you're talking about. And I didn't want to feed into that. I didn't want to create more drama. I wasn't being dramatic by leaving. I said I was setting a boundary by leaving and giving myself some space to calm down because I didn't want to engage in that comment that you made.

Jess: 17:58

this is the part where we do it with Grace when you say, you know what, I'll be back. I'm going to go. I'm going to go lay down for a minute. I've got a little bit of a headache. Or I just, I need to go get something out of the other room. You don't have to lie about a headache, sometimes I just,

Randi: 18:10

I need a minute.

Jess: 18:11

Yeah. I'll, you know what? I'll be right back. I need a minute. Whatever that means. If you don't want to engage with them, it is okay to excuse yourself. It's also okay. What Randy did just to be like, I left now. Maybe she was being a diva because she was throwing her arms up and waving her feather boa. Yeah. And she was like, I'm out of here. I put a crown on and stomped out. Well, I couldn't really go. And she threw herself on her bed like Scarlett O'Hara. Okay, that's a diva and I can't imagine her doing that, but hey, well, maybe she did. Okay. So Randy, can you give me some examples of flipping the script? What phrases I can use?

Randi: 18:44

Okay. So speaking of which it reminds me of, or speaking of which that reminds me of. Or, that's a very interesting point, but I've been really excited to talk about this. I see where you're coming from, but also have you considered or have you thought dot dot dot? Or let's table this for now. I was curious about

Jess: 19:07

Blank. Yeah, I like that last one. I like that. Can we table this or can we put this, is it couch it?

Randi: 19:12

Is it couch it? Pause. I would say let's pause this, like now. Couch it? I don't know if I, is

Jess: 19:17

that the right phrase? Maybe it is table it.

Randi: 19:18

I don't know. Table it. Let's table it. Well,

Jess: 19:19

but I thought we could put like couch. No, it is. Yeah. I want to add a couch to it apparently.

Randi: 19:24

I need to lay on a couch right now. Okay, Jess, what if someone brings The conversation back to that topic again, and it's just so uncomfortable. They will, they won't let it go,

Jess: 19:33

right? Because you've already left. You've already peed. You've already got water. You've already said you had a headache. You've already found your mother. Okay. So I want you to remain firm and gentle. You can say something like, I think we've covered that quite extensively. I'd really like to focus on blank for now. Setting boundaries is key to your mental wellness, Honestly, when you can set these boundaries, I've got a friend, she's on her HOA meeting. She's so damn good at this. I sat there and watched her because I've never seen her at work. I know what she does, but I only know her I see her when she comes, sounds creepy now, I see her when she comes home all dressed up because she lives across the street. Yeah. But anyway, I always see her like in sweats and t shirts and whatever else. Literally pulled out the professional thing in the middle of this HOA meeting and said, you know what let's maybe she said Let's table that for now Let's hold off on that right now and let's let's redirect back to this and whatever and I was just like boom

Randi: 20:22

boom boom boom Boom, huh?

Jess: 20:24

I was so impressed. I had to tell her later. I was like damn, that's good She's like I do this for a living. I was like, man, you're

Randi: 20:29

good. You're like you just totally boss, babe She did she

Jess: 20:32

did it So well, she set the boundary and she said, we'll talk about this later and gave it a later date. All right, Randy, how can flipping the script be beneficial in professional settings like this answer? Yeah.

Randi: 20:44

Because you are keeping the discussion productive. You're keeping it on track. You're keeping you know how there are people always say, that's another meeting that could have been an email. Yes. Because people just go on and on and on and on because a lot of people don't know how to redirect and keep people on tasks or read the

Jess: 21:03

room

Randi: 21:04

right and so This is like something that can be really beneficial, especially in the workplace, to keep things on track and going and moving. And it's really good too. And networking, it helps you make meaningful connections while avoiding, potential conflicts.

Jess: 21:21

Nice. Nice. And sometimes when you have a bunch of ADHDers, you have to be kept on track.

Randi: 21:26

Oh, yeah. Like Jess and I are always like, Hey, girl, you're going down a rabbit hole, rule it back in. Usually one of us is off. And the other one's trying to pull the other one in. Okay, Jess, are there any situations where it's better not to change the subject and just let it lie?

Jess: 21:47

I say yes. If it is a topic with a very significant emotional importance to someone else involved, it might be better to fully explore it unless it's going to cause you distress. It's that whole, if it's going to cause more harm than good, then no, don't do it. Sometimes active listening can really be more beneficial than diverting the conversation. Right. But you have to be in a place where you're ready to hear this. Yeah.

Randi: 22:12

You don't want to be constantly like avoiding somebody that's trying to have a Serious conversation with you. There's like a fine line there. If somebody's trying to broach a subject with you and you feel like you owe it to them to hear them out, then, actively listen. But if it's something that's triggering for you, definitely use the redirect techniques.

Jess: 22:32

Exactly. So how do we practice the skill of flipping the script or changing that conversation or direction?

Randi: 22:39

Practice with friends or family or just repeat, the sayings out to yourself and, work it into as Jess likes to call it, low stakes conversation or like low stress, like not jumping into the frying pan with somebody like you're ready to fight to the death with about, politics while you're in line for Starbucks. Okay. And also, I think it's very important to pay attention to people's body language and their verbal cues and half of, conversation is body language. And so you really need to kind of like pay attention to how the person is acting. And the more that you practice it, the more naturally it will come to you, especially in those needed situations.

Jess: 23:20

It's like those people, like when you're backing up and they keep getting close to you and you back up again and they're getting close to you and they don't get that you're trying to get out of their bubble or keep them out of yours. And we've all seen that. And you finally eventually have to say, Hey, hang on. I'm actually stepping back because I need a little bit more space. I've had to actually put my hand up and do that because I'm like, okay, you're going to corner me and then I'm going to flip. Yeah. I'm not going to flip the script. I'm like bubble boy. Do you see? I'm going to just flip.

Randi: 23:45

How funny. So Jess, what do you do if your attempts to change the subject or conversation has failed?

Jess: 23:54

Well, first I want you to acknowledge and be proud of yourself for trying, because this is part of just having the grace in it.

Randi: 24:01

Learning, growing.

Jess: 24:02

Exactly. You can try approaching the topic differently. If it doesn't work, you consider excusing yourself from the conversation if it becomes too uncomfortable, whatever it is that you need for those boundaries. If you need to be a diva because they're not hearing you, fine, that's great. I'm gonna make fun of her for a while now. And if

Randi: 24:21

they're offended, let them be offended. Exactly.

Jess: 24:24

So part of it is do what you need to do, and if that person continually wants to harass or talk about that subject, that's not somebody I necessarily want to hang out with. And I can literally say, I have to go now. I was with somebody, no, I was talking to somebody the other day, and they were like, yeah, this person was really rude, she was saying this and that, she goes, you know what, I just left. And I was like, cool. She goes, yep, I left the party. I was like, I don't need this. I don't want to deal with it. I don't want the drama, because it's not my friend, but you know what, I'm just gonna peace out. I don't need any of this crap. Yeah, exactly. And that is a literal fact. Boundary of not wanting to cause drama

Randi: 24:57

and learning to redirect, conversations is such a powerful tool. You can learn to reclaim your voice with this. You can learn to protect your mental health. You can learn to protect, your thoughts and your values. It gives you so much confidence, I feel too, when you can navigate conversations.

Jess: 25:17

Oh, yeah. That's why there's so many thousands of books about breathing and having conversations and, and how to have that conversation. And it is about practice. And unfortunately, we learn as we grow. So the older we get, the better we feel about it. I wish I had these skills when I was back in my 20s, we have them now and that's what matters is learning as you grow.

Randi: 25:38

And I feel like too that this is such a good form of self care. You wouldn't think, sometimes we think of all these frivolous things as self care, but learning to use your voice in a powerful way and empower yourself is a huge form of self care.

Jess: 25:54

It is. It is.

Randi: 25:55

So thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If this resonated with you, please share it with a friend who could use some tips on flipping the script.

Jess: 26:03

And as always, take care of yourselves and each other until next time.