Soiling the Nest: Why Your Teen is Pushing You Away

Is your college-bound teen suddenly moody, defiant, or picking fights? Welcome to soiling the nest—a real and natural part of their transition to independence. In this episode of the Women’s Mental Health Podcast, licensed psychotherapists Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, break down why this happens, how it impacts your mental health, and what you can do to cope. Whether you're feeling hurt, confused, or just plain exhausted, this conversation will help you navigate the messy emotions of this stage with self-care and confidence.

While this shift can feel personal, understanding the psychology behind soiling the nest can help you navigate the emotional rollercoaster with empathy and patience. Beyond the household, this behavior also has social and economic impacts, influencing family dynamics, financial planning, and emotional well-being. Learn practical tools to manage your own emotions, strengthen your parent-child relationship, and find resources to help guide you through this transformative stage with confidence.

Whether you're a parent navigating this emotional phase at home or a business leader looking for solutions to prevent disruption in your company, we’ll provide expert insights, actionable strategies, and preventative measures to help you adapt and thrive. Stay tuned for practical tips, professional advice, and real-life examples that bring clarity to this complex topic!

Questions we answer!

Why do some teens engage in challenging behavior before leaving home?

How can I differentiate between normal teenage behavior and more serious issues?

What are some strategies for addressing challenging behavior in teens?

Should I be worried if my teen experiments with substances?

How can I support my teen's mental well-being during this challenging time?

Is it normal for my teen to distance themselves from family and spend more time with friends?

What role does autonomy play in a teen's development?

How can I prepare my teen for the challenges of leaving home?

What should I do if my teen's behavior becomes concerning or poses a danger?

How can I maintain a strong, supportive relationship with my teen during this phase?

#SoilingTheNest #TeenIndependence #ParentingTeens #EmptyNestSyndrome #TeenBehaviorExplained #ParentingChallenges #MentalHealthForMoms #CopingWithChange #FamilyDynamics #RaisingTeensRight #collegebound #collegeboundkids #CollegeBound2025 #NervousSystemSupport #ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife

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Transcript

Randi: 0:14

Welcome to the Women's Mental Health Podcast, where Randy and Jess, two licensed psychotherapists, and we talk about women's mental health, well being and strategies for coping with all of life's challenges.

Jess: 0:25

And how all of this is normal. This

Randi: 0:28

episode, we are going to try to explain teenage behavior before leaving home and its impact on women's mental health, and try to provide some insights into strategies for coping with

Jess: 0:40

this. We understand that navigating these challenges of parenting can be so overwhelming. Experiencing. X. Especially when it comes to understanding why our teens are acting out before they're getting ready to leave. And we're talking about this time right now, which is second semester of senior year. We

Randi: 1:00

started talking about this because I was talking to Jess about what I was going through and she was like, this is a thing. And I was like, it is, I'm not alone in this, like, tell me more about this. And then she already knew about it. And then I started researching about it and we were like, Oh my gosh, we need to talk about that. Yeah. So we're going to dive in and explore this whole life phase together and hopefully we can help support you through this.

Jess: 1:25

Okay. So find us and more resources on women's mental health podcast. com. Have you ever had these

Randi: 1:32

thoughts? Why do some teens engage in such risky or challenging behavior right before leaving home?

Jess: 1:39

How can I tell if what my teenager is doing is normal or if there's more serious issues?

Randi: 1:45

What are some strategies that I can use to really address these challenging behaviors in my teen?

Jess: 1:52

Should I worry if my teen is experiencing with substances?

Randi: 1:58

How can I support my teenager's mental well being during this super tough

Jess: 2:04

time? Is it normal for my teen to distance themselves from family and spend more time either in their room or with their friends right now?

Randi: 2:13

And what role does autonomy play in a teen's development? And this is very important because I have a hard time with this, like letting go so that they have the choice, but giving boundaries for them too. And that's, that's a really important

Jess: 2:26

question. And it is, it's so hard right now at this age, because you're like, I want to give them space, but I don't want to feel like. I'm abandoning them. And so how do you figure out what you need or don't need with them? How can I prepare my teen for the challenges of leaving home and going to college? And

Randi: 2:43

what should you do if your teenager's behavior has really become concerning or they're becoming a danger to themselves or

Jess: 2:51

others? And then how can I maintain a strong, supportive relationship with my teen? during this phase, especially because you don't want to enable them and you don't want to abandon them. Right. All of these things that happen to

Randi: 3:05

keep that relationship with love. But it's like, it's, did

Jess: 3:09

you do your damn homework? Why am I getting another notice saying you didn't turn something

Randi: 3:14

in? Exactly. Like, why are you prioritizing like your friends over this or your family? And what

Jess: 3:20

do you mean you're not going to school today? Exactly. What, what, what are you talking about? You have. Four months to go.

Randi: 3:27

Let's do this. We're at the finish line. Let's not trip at the finish line. I actually said that to my daughter this

Jess: 3:34

week. I had a psychology friend because our oldest is already adulthood, right? I've already, we did this phase like eight years ago. And at the time I had one of my friends say they call it shitting the nest. And I was like, what do you mean? And I guess that's, there's a better way to say like spoiling the nest. She said, no, not what, what he's doing is normal. This is called shitting the nest. So there's actually a group, I can't remember the birds, but there's these birds. And what the babies do is they poop all over the nest to the point where the parents are like, Oh, I'm out. You're done. You, this is, I can't do this anymore. You need to go. Huh? And that's what the teenagers are doing. They're acting out for so many reasons right now because there's this big life change happening.

Randi: 4:18

Yeah. So it's this huge transition and they're just scared and they're fearful. So they're acting out. Yeah.

Jess: 4:27

And if it was easy to stay home. They would never leave us, right?

Randi: 4:31

So they're shitting all over us.

Jess: 4:33

Yes, they're shitting in your nest Right now these behaviors that we're talking about and we're kind of joking. Okay, not going to school not turning your homework Sometimes it's the attitude. Oh boy. Is it the attitude that starts coming out? It's it's the you can't tell me what to do and I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm almost an adult Pushing the boundaries. I'm going to do stuff with my girlfriend or my boyfriend or coming out a little later and let's

Randi: 5:00

also talk about like hormones, mood swings, their own mental health. If they're a female PMS, like all these things coming in to play, their bodies are still developing to their brains are still developing. There's all these things that their brains.

Jess: 5:17

Your child's brains do not stop developing until about 23 to 25. Their brains are still trying to grow and develop and figure stuff out. But our society says, you're going to be graduating and you're 18. You're an adult

Randi: 5:32

now. Yeah. We're like, we need to kick you out the door.

Jess: 5:35

We coddle them now. And now we have to like, let them go like that. It's not even letting them go. It's like pushing them out. From a mental health perspective, though, I know a lot of these behaviors, they're influenced by various factors, like you said, the hormones and the peer pressure. And I know there's other things that some of these kids have. We're not talking about all the kids that have oppositional defiant disorder or conduct disorder or depression. We're talking about just right now, the second semester of senior. year.

Randi: 6:02

So really, it's about the stress and uncertainty of transitioning into this adulthood phase that can also impact their mental health. And let's be honest, our parents, the caregivers, whether you're a foster parent, an adoptive parent, a teacher or two, I'm sure that they get pushed back. It's really affecting Everybody as a whole. And this happens.

Jess: 6:28

I was so toast and I'll just share. I was so done. Like, I didn't know if we were going to make it through the end of our senior year.

Randi: 6:36

I feel like that right now. I want to run away. Yes. Like what? Why is this happening? I can't handle this. Like, I thought life was supposed to get easier. Like, my sister has younger kids that are like, she has three And she's like, does it get easier? And I'm like, no, there's just new challenges that are different.

Jess: 6:54

It's just, and that's what I tell parents. It doesn't get easier. Like after the first year, yes, it gets

Randi: 6:59

easier. Well, you have a better understanding,

Jess: 7:02

right? But it just gets different. It's all hard. And it just. gets different. And it's so hard when we're watching our kids go through this really challenging behavior. And honestly, they're acting like assholes and really, it's so frustrating to see all this because I wish I could have behaved better, but I was, it was so anxiety provoking for me because I was like, what are we doing? Why are we doing this?

Randi: 7:29

Yeah. I've been trying to like temper, like my reaction, but another thing too is like the guilt of it. And then I feel like, did I do something wrong? Could I have done something different 10 years ago that would have changed this now? And then just bringing this up, I'm like, okay, this is normal. This is a normal transition. It's like teething or learning to walk or something, but yeah, basically they're getting their teeth into adulthood when there's growing pains happening. And so we need to be understanding and empathetic of that. And I think that's helping me. Flip the script in my head and like my expectations of what I expect of my teenager as a senior leaving high school and transitioning. And part

8:12

of

Jess: 8:13

this though is really important to make sure you take care of your mental health. And I'm saying because afterwards. After this, Randy's I have a massage. I was like, good job. Good job. You need to make sure you're taking care of yourself because they're going to do what they do. And I got, we survived. We're all three of us. Four of us are still here. We made it through that challenging time. And I do, I will say, I don't know if we would have done it better, but man, night of graduation, we're like, yeah. You're driving, we're drinking, and we went and had martinis at this big We're celebrating. Yes, we had a big fancy dinner, and I was like, you're driving us home. Yeah. And dad and I were like, okay, we're gonna have a martini here because man, we made it. We were like, oh my god, we made it to the end of

Randi: 8:58

senior year. You've got to prioritize, like, self care in some ways, and Okay, so

Jess: 9:03

that's not exactly self care. That was a celebrating, but that

Randi: 9:05

wasn't self care. Well, okay, so celebrating self care, but Not that part, but another way is really, we have to learn how to help our teenager cope and cope ourselves. So what does that include? Communication? Yes. Open communication.

Jess: 9:23

It's not taking it personal. That's actually the huge piece

Randi: 9:27

as parents. And I, being ADHD, I'm very like, I have reactive sensitivity dysphoria, which you guys can search that up on our website because we have talked about it and it's actually one of our most popular podcasts. So we tend to jump to conclusions. I'm thinking of the office movie to jump to conclusion map and we go straight to the emotional side of it instead of taking a step back and being like, what's really happening here? I had a heart to heart with my daughter to like sat down. What's really happening here? And then she was able. We were both crying. She's able to tell me what she's frustrated with, how she's feeling. And I told her how I'm feeling and why I'm reacting the way I do and reacting out of a place of love and wanting to support her and push her, but understanding to maybe what I was doing was too much because then she was having this. Anxiety about not only her own thoughts, but then my reactions too. And it's so

Jess: 10:22

hard because as parents, when they're little, they come to us and we fix it. We get a bandaid. We do hugs. We have the right answers when they're little. At this age, we still want to fix it. Yeah,

Randi: 10:36

but we need to teach them how to fix it for them. Selves

Jess: 10:40

and we wanna just do it. Like it's just, oh, I wanna wrap my kid in bubble wrap every day is what I say. Mm-Hmm. I just wanna put her in bubble wrap and protect her Always, all my friends, everybody. And it's just so hard because they have to learn some of this stuff. And let's face it, some of us have kids that have to learn the hard way. I'm one of those. mm-Hmm, I have to learn the hard way sometimes. My kids are the same

Randi: 11:02

way. Yeah. And I tell my teenager too, like I was a late bloomer. It took me a while to get things going for myself.

Jess: 11:11

That's because you're not a late bloomer. It's because you're ADHD, right? Well, I learned that later. Yeah. We're not late bloomers. We're just, our brands are a little different and they develop different. And we do things the hard

Randi: 11:22

fucking way. Right. And so that's why. Again, it's so important to communicate this with our kids, teach them to communicate with us and also have boundaries, like they need to have boundaries with us, but we also need to have boundaries with them and learning to compromise on

Jess: 11:36

that. I wonder, Randy, if you went through and you validated it with her and you said, hey. We just did a podcast on this because we're talking about it and this is a really normal phase to go through. Oh, yeah. Do you think that she would be like, oh, I'm this is normal for me?

Randi: 12:42

like I wanted to talk to her about this because I was gonna tell her like we did all this research and like this is Normal and just went through it and then you're not alone And so your friends are probably all going through it and I noticed too like I want to say this is probably true for myself Self. And I want to say, I noticed it with my daughter and her friends group. They kind of like are pulling away from each other a little bit. And I think that that is also a protective thing. Like you're losing the support system and you don't have a support system already or you don't know what that's going to look like and changing and there's grief over that. There's grief over. Losing this phase of childhood, going

Jess: 13:23

to school every day, knowing exactly how it's going to be laid out. Right. We've been doing this for 12 years. Yeah. We pretty much know.

Randi: 13:31

And now it's all unknown.

Jess: 13:33

And the kids right now, these are kids that four years ago. Started school when a lot of schools

Randi: 13:40

were shut down. When COVID happened. Right. Yeah. That was my daughter. Her first year of high school was In N Out, In N Out, In N Out, hybrid, really mostly online. So, and who knows what's going to happen in the future. So they have this also, we don't know if something could happen again and it could throw us off course again.

Jess: 14:00

Exactly. A lot of people just started getting a routine this last year, maybe the year before. We're still seeing all these illnesses and stuff. I'll get off my soapbox, but people are so sick this last couple of months because we're still adjusting after such a interesting time. And I know every state was different and everybody has different beliefs. We're not getting into that, but our kids are still not

Randi: 14:25

normal. Mm hmm. I think another way too that I've had to think differently about this is having kind of growth mindset about it. This is a period of them to grow. This is a period of them to find themselves. This is a period of self discovery and letting them fail. And I like to tell my kids, we've talked about this before, that it's not failing. No, it's not failing forward. Mistakes are part of life and you learn so much from them. So also reminding myself that these mistakes, even though I want to protect her from them, they're essential for her growing into who she is. And

Jess: 15:03

let's be honest, you also want to strangle her for them. Come on. There are these times where we just like, really? And that's really, this

Randi: 15:09

is what we're doing. It's okay. Call your friends, your sister, your mom, bitch about it, let it out, vent it, and then go back, talk about it, research it, and then take care of it from yourself. Put on your oxygen mask first, find what you need to do to center yourself and then go to your kids and help them work through it. Yeah.

Jess: 15:27

Our oldest was just so angry. It was. And we were the biggest a holes ever as parents. We were holding him to the line. This is the rule. This is what we were doing. Going back, I think I would have been a little softer. Yeah. A little softer, maybe, but it was just like, we had to just contain this. Oh, and that's amazing concept, right? Think about containment. When we have them as babies, we literally hold them. Like I'm holding like an infant, my arm rocking them. We're containing them as they get

Randi: 16:01

older. Swaddle them and wrap them

Jess: 16:03

up. And then as they get older, our containment field, our arms get bigger and bigger and bigger. So that way we can open up for them. And there are times in our lives, nine, 10, whatever that we have to close that circle and contain them more. And now We're telling them, peace out, wide open space, see you later, you're 18, what are you going to do? But really, it's a time to provide containment with them, but to give them a little bit more, I want to say freedom, that's not it. Let them make the choices or the direction.

Randi: 16:40

Yeah, the autonomy over their

Jess: 16:42

choices. Yeah, and be like, okay, what do you think you want to do? What do you think is this? Instead of trying to fix it. It's hard. This is the hardest. It's hard.

Randi: 16:51

Like Bob the Builder, I'm here, just let me tap tap and it's gonna fix it. Two, like teachers reach out and their counselors reach out. And I have had to tell her teachers and counselors, I am letting her figure this out on her own. I have to step

Jess: 17:05

back. We probably, right when they get to be like right before high school as parents, we should probably start having some of our own life. So many parents are so still wrapped up in their kids that we don't have our own hobbies. And then what happens is we're

Randi: 17:21

friendships or support

Jess: 17:22

systems. And then what we're worried about is as a parent and moms is that they're going to leave

Randi: 17:28

us. Yeah. And empty nest syndrome too on the opposite side. It's true. And it's also a huge time for people getting divorced.

Jess: 17:36

Oh yeah. You're like, Hey, the kids are out. I don't actually like you anymore. I don't

Randi: 17:40

know who you are. Yeah. I don't know who I am either. You have no sense of self. That's a whole other podcast. So when you have to create distance too, and if you start it earlier on, it's not as

Jess: 17:53

hard. It's not like the slap in the face. I'm not saying abandon them and go get a whole hobby and new life. Right. But I'm saying. When you have been, some of these moms who are like, I've been running the sports and driving on travel teams and we've been, you know, club and you're like, wait, who, what, what's my Facebook group now? I think it's great if you can find other things to do and still support them. Yeah.

Randi: 18:18

So here's another important point. How do we differentiate between this normal average second semester slump and. More serious mental health issues.

Jess: 18:30

Ooh, I like the second semester slump. I think it needs, yeah, yeah. Second semester slump. It's not even pregnancy. It's just, oh dear gosh, here we go again. So like normal versus.

Randi: 18:42

When it's concerning, when you should talk to somebody, a therapist or a psychiatrist, or they need more help and support than you can give them.

Jess: 18:50

Anytime you're concerned, I want everyone out there to follow their gut, really, truly, your mama gut. You know, your child better than anybody else out there. I want you to follow your gut. If you're worried, reach out to their school counselors, ask them, how can I help support

Randi: 19:08

you? Do you have resources I can use things like that?

Jess: 19:11

Or talk to your kids and say, I'm concerned. What is going on? And a lot of parents forget that, like, they're still kids. And they don't want to look at you like an adult. I don't know if y'all remember dating. When you went on dates and you're sitting across from a restaurant talking to somebody, it feels like an interview. Mm hmm. That feels crappy. The one that feels better is like when you're next to them walking, strolling along, and you have these like nice fluid kind of organic conversations. Your kids are still like that too. So bribe them. Hey, I'm going to Starbucks. Why don't you come with me? Yeah,

Randi: 19:45

I'm going to Target. I want to go shopping. That's my daughter's love language. Okay, so

Jess: 19:49

say mine is Starbucks. Yeah. And with your boys who don't want to leave the house, play a game, get some food. No, take them to drive somewhere and get food. Be like, Hey. Are you hungry? Let's go here and pick something that's more than five minutes from the house

Randi: 20:02

or, you know, so you have that time to talk with them and drive in the car. And like you said, it's not such a sterile environment. It's not, Hey, look me in the eyes and talk to me about this right now. It's Hey, let's just, you know, we're just hanging out, just

Jess: 20:14

hanging out. It's called windshield time for a reason. I mean, just have that windshield time. And if you're concerned. Take it up a notch. I would rather you be like, I'm worried and let's take a look at it versus ignoring it all the time.

Randi: 20:27

So what are some other strategies that we can address for these challenging behaviors?

Jess: 20:32

Well, I think you said it before. Randy is empathy. You talked about setting boundaries. Being empathetic, having this open communication. The other part is, what can you do? Let's do therapy with Randy for a minute. What can you do? That's kind of cute actually. What can you do right now to encourage something like a healthy coping skill for your daughter without calling it that? Because she'll know you're doing therapy. She's

Randi: 21:00

going to be like, don't. Don't therapeutize me. Yeah, don't therapeutize me. Don't therapeutize me. I'm not your client. I'm your daughter. Well, for her too, I usually go to her and I ask her, What can I do to help you? What do you need right now? And then whether that's like a movie or I say, Do you want to go do one of our things together? Like her and I, even though I have other children, her and I one on one time is important for me to take with my kids. So I'll be like, let's go. We like to do crafts together. We like to go to the movies together. We'd like to shop together. So I'll ask her to do that stuff so that we do have that one on one time. And then it's like casual and it's not forced. And then I ask her things about her friends and what she's doing right now. She likes to game. So I ask about that. And then I work in. Those other things that are important for her to develop. And I also let her know, you need these coping skills. And I often use myself as an example too. I did or did not have this support structure when I was your age. And this is why I'm trying. I don't talk to her like a baby. I talk to her like she is a capable woman, an adult. And I think that she respects that more too.

Jess: 22:14

Well, because she is, and my daughter, she asks for dates. She'll do mom. We need a date soon. Okay, cool. What do you want to do? And that's just her and I getting out and doing some one on one time, but it's usually just walking around cause we're doing that windshield non direct eye contact

Randi: 22:31

talking. And I think it's important to. No, when you said that she's asking you and you're hearing her Mm hmm. I think a lot of the times we tell our kids not right now later Busy, I'm overwhelmed I'm stressed and they learn not to come to us then

Jess: 22:50

and they also learn that that's a really crappy coping skill because that's what They do I'm stressed right now. And all they're doing is mimicking what you've shown them They're not

Randi: 22:58

really getting to the root of why they're stressed or why it's like this blanket. So hear your kids when they say, Hey, I want to go. Do this or I need this look for the ways that they are reaching out for you. It might not sound like that in a certain way. It might be like, Hey, can you watch me play Minecraft? Hey, can you drive my friends and I to the movies? Hey, can you, these are opportunities that you can take to help these behaviors and to help them build coping skills and to build that relationship with your teens so that it's not so explosive.

Jess: 23:31

Yeah, mine is, we're hosting her friends again. She wants, I don't know, five or six of her friends to come over, which is great. And they just take over our living room, dining room area and play games that are loud. And she's like, can you do that? Do you mind providing sandwiches? I was like, sure, that's fine. We'll be around. We'll give you some space. We're still within your distance. And though it might

Randi: 23:50

inconvenience you. at certain times or be stressful at certain times. What is the alternative? If you kept saying no, no, no, like, where are they going to go and do these things? Where are they going to look for other ways to entertain themselves? I think of these things. So I've always been like the, yeah, sure. Like all your friends can come over. Your friends can stay here. You're fine. You can eat our food. I will buy all the snacks because I would rather that than the alternate. This way

Jess: 24:18

at least I can pay attention to what's going on and I know the friends and I can be like, Oh, okay. And then you meet the parents at this age because mine don't drive yet. But let's talk about what you were leading to is what if they're experimenting with drugs or alcohol? And it's really hard because we have so many different states with so many laws. Obviously where we are, we're like the last three to

Randi: 24:38

not be having, oh my gosh, we live in the backwoods. Anyways.

Jess: 24:42

Yeah. We're like the last, by the end of this year, there's going to be like. three states that don't have some form of either CBD, marijuana usage, recreation, medical. And it's us. It's us. Yeah. We're here. A lot of this stuff is legal. And I've always said, Hey, are you 18? Are you 21? Whatever your law is. If at 18, if you can smoke pot, that's great at 18, you're legal at 21. If you can drink, then you're legal. But let's talk about what are the household rules,

Randi: 25:11

right? And also, what are the risks? To not only your physical health, but your mental

Jess: 25:17

health and your brain, the growth, the development. So

Randi: 25:20

being supportive and holding up your rules and boundaries, but also while being not non judge. I can't say the word non judge mental, non judge today.

Jess: 25:32

Real quick. I want to go back to say, what are you showing them as your example? If you're a smoker, your kid is more likely to smoke if you're a drinker and they've grown up around alcohol and it's been normalized. They're more likely to drink. And so what are you showing them? Some kids grow up and they're like, they've seen you drink and they're like, I'm never drinking. You're like, okay, cool. That's great. And some kids, they just still their parents alcohol and water down the vodka. I mean, whatever. We're not pointing fingers. You have to look at yourselves and what example you've also been showing them and making sure it's not the pot, column and kettle black. Is that, can you say that?

Randi: 26:10

Yeah, because if you are showing them. Something and then saying something else. They're not going to have any respect for you. And you're like, why don't they respect me? Well, if you're being a hypocrite, I mean, nobody's going to listen to you. Would you listen to yourself?

Jess: 26:25

Oh yeah. We would talk shit in a heartbeat. Exactly. You are also talking about how do we support. Our children's mental health right now, this is so challenging for us, but it's not about us. This is about them. So how do we support them creating

Randi: 26:41

a safe space for them? Uh, safe space.

Jess: 26:44

You that is your job as parents to create the safe space

Randi: 26:49

and then giving them creative outlets to express themselves. Whatever that looks like. If that's gaming are journaling. time with you, whatever it is that they love, that's kind of like puts a spark in them, support that and let them know that my daughter doesn't want to take the traditional route of going to college right away. And I am a very academic person. So at first I was like, Then I was like, no, this is not me. This is her. And I want to support her and where she's at. And a lot of other people who have no influence in our life have decided to make comments about it.

Jess: 27:25

Opinions are like assholes. We all have them and they all

Randi: 27:28

stink. Exactly. And I don't want that to deter her from doing something because I've always taught my kids that. When you do something you love, that is finding true success. It's not a paper. It's not a degree. It's not making sure your mental health is good and making sure you can

Jess: 27:45

take care of yourself. You gotta be honest. You gotta eat and pay

Randi: 27:48

your rent. Yeah. And still that there are still financial things that you need to do, but you can find success with things that you love as well. But it doesn't have to be the traditional

Jess: 27:58

route. And that's why in our house, we did it with our oldest and we still say with our youngest is, you know, there are three things you can go get a trade. Those sometimes pay higher than a college degree, right? You can go to college, you can go into the military. You can get a job right away. Our thing is we don't need a roommate. We're good. But for us, if you want to live at home, you have to do one of the three things. You can go to trade, you can go to college, you can go into the military. Our oldest chose the military route. That's great. Not what we were expecting. And now he's ready to come back. He's getting out. He's done it. So guess what? Now he can go to college. And the military pays for it. Fantastic. Yeah. Awesome. I know. We're like, all right, good job. And you can come back and live at home and go to college. We're okay with that. Some parents are like, you're 18, you're out, but it's so hard out

Randi: 28:55

there. It is. And not just like the world as it is, but also like financially, I know I used to live in a, Jess and I come from a very expensive state where we used to live and grew up and a lot of. People I know still live with parents or family and friends because it's really expensive.

Jess: 29:20

And now it's their parents are living with them because it's really

Randi: 29:23

expensive. Or I have friends that have never, they make really damn good money, but they still can't afford to buy a house. And that's okay. And, and that's okay. Things don't have to look a certain way that we picture this cookie cutter cutout. It can come in various forms and understanding that and having the empathy for that really helps our kids. Now, I know this is very hard, but a lot of times we feel like our kids are pulling away and distancing themselves from not only us, but their own friends and their own family. And is that normal? Yeah.

Jess: 29:56

That is so normal for them to just want this independence. And they're also terrified. As parents, we joke that your 13 year old is going to go hide up in their room. Ha ha ha. Yeah, they do. They go hide up in the room. They come down if it wasn't for food. Right. We may not see them sometimes. I think that's a normal thing at this age too, is that they're starting to withdraw a little bit and hunker in their corner kind of

Randi: 30:19

thing. And I think what we talked about a little bit earlier is creating that distance to as a protective barrier to losing maybe what they know in their comfort zone and trying to prepare themselves, like putting up their walls. Yeah.

Jess: 30:33

And they just need to find a balance and we have to find the balance between their need for independence and really maintaining the family rules and bonds. You still live here. You still got to unload the dishes. I'm sorry. That's just part

Randi: 30:46

of the rules. That leads into what really does. Autonomy have to do with a teen and young adult's development.

Jess: 30:54

These are life skills. My oldest used to get so mad because his mom would always be like, these are life skills. You have to learn how to do this stuff because you got to learn how to pump your own gas. You have to learn all these different things. These are the things that we want them to be able to make decisions and be responsible. Responsible and rely on themselves for things. Let's

Randi: 31:17

go back a little bit. Let's define what autonomy is.'cause I feel like that's one of those words that gets thrown around, but people might not understand specifically what it is. And it means the right to govern yourself, like your body, your decisions, your mind, and owning that. So this is giving your teens the right to self govern. It's like when

Jess: 31:39

they were little and they're like. Put their hands on their hips and say, you can't tell me what to do. You remember that? Well, I

Randi: 31:45

used to say, yes, I can. Yes, I can.

Jess: 31:49

Some of the things I'll say with the oldest is that if you are not relying on us financially, you're not living in our house. We're not paying for your cell phone. We're not paying for college or your car insurance. You have a hundred percent control over what you do. Yeah. I'm not saying that. Yeah. It's not pay to play. Yeah. No, it's not that. But if you're going to live in our house,

Randi: 32:12

there's boundaries,

Jess: 32:13

responsibilities, there are responsibilities and rules and boundaries, right? As an adult, if you're not going to come home, can you let us know? So we're not worried about you being in a ditch. I don't need to know what you're

Randi: 32:23

doing. I just had a friend or really she, she was struggling with that because she was like, I just want her to tell me that she's safe. Yeah. I don't care like about anything else. I just want. Her to be like, I am here and that's okay.

Jess: 32:38

We just told him, be a good roommate. This is what you do with when you have roommates in your twenties, Hey, I'm going out and not coming back. Cool. Thanks. So they don't go, Hey, I haven't seen her in four days. What happened? Should I call somebody? This is just being a good roommate as they get older. And that's what you want them to do and learn how to balance a checkbook or at least their account. And

Randi: 32:57

that's, that comes with these skills that we need to teach them about being prepared. So like age. Yeah. appropriate responsibilities and important decision making. Like, how do I balance a checkbook? Like, how do I pay attention to my account balance? Like, how do I divide a dinner with friends or something like that? These things that we don't think about. Well,

Jess: 33:24

that's a hard one even as adults.

Randi: 33:26

Right. They even have apps for that. Like how to split like apps and like vacations and things like that. Because. This is something that people have struggled with.

Jess: 33:35

It is a struggle because everybody handles money differently.

Randi: 33:38

And like how to talk to their teachers or their professors or at their job, like how to handle certain situations. These are important life skills that a lot of us had to learn or still haven't learned and they should teach in high school, but they don't. And budgeting things like that, that nobody ever sat down and did that with me. And so I struggled with budgeting and finances until I was much older struggle because you're ADHD. Well, yeah, that's that's what that is. But yeah, but still, I didn't have any skills to. Back up my brain that was all by this,

Jess: 34:19

but with, with that, I like one of the points you just made was that don't wait until you're the second semester of senior year to all of a sudden throw all of these things onto your child. Let's do all these life hacks right now. Yeah. That's not going to work. We started in eighth grade. This was eighth grade this year. I said, you need to every year at the beginning of the year, I've sent an email saying, this is my child. My child is ADHD. These are her, what she needs, what she excels at. These are the accommodations per 504. Right? Let me know if you have any questions. Well, this year I said, you're eighth grade. Now you need to send it. Wait, what? Or

Randi: 34:58

have that conversation with your teachers. I

Jess: 35:01

wanted an email and a conversation. So we sat down and she sent it. Why do I have to do this? I said, cause in four or five years, you'll be in college and you're going to have to learn to advocate for yourself. I can't be your mommy on your college campus.

Randi: 35:15

Exactly. Or at your job or whatever happens, you have

Jess: 35:19

to learn. I can't tell your boss he's a jerk and that this, I said, you have to learn to do this. And so start earlier. And that's empowerment. Yeah. Start earlier. So you're not dumping all of this senior year going, well, you're going to be 18 in three months. What are you going to do?

Randi: 35:34

Yeah. And adding more fuel to the fire and their anxiety. But that's just going to make it worse. Speaking

Jess: 35:40

of anxiety, if you're worried about their behavior, what do you do? I know we talked about it a little bit before, but Randy, what do you do when you're worried about your daughter's

Randi: 35:50

anxiety or you're worried? I trust my intuition about it. And then I reach out to people that can support me through this. And that's usually a doctor, therapist, counselor, a school counselor, a teacher. Or a psychiatrist that can help guide me to the right things that she needs that I might not be able to give her.

Jess: 36:11

Yeah. Or maybe you just need to get your own Xanax and you can not have the anxiety that she's bringing up. Exactly. I'm kidding guys. I'm kidding.

Randi: 36:20

Kind of. So with all these things, the most important thing is keep that communication open. And empathetic listening and really validate how their feelings. We all need to have our feelings validated. That doesn't change whether you're 5 or you're 55 or you're 105. And when it comes down to it, our jobs as a parent or caregiver is to show support and to love unconditionally. Unconditionally means. Conditions. Conditions. Yeah. You don't want to gaslight. You don't want to be a narcissist. You don't want to say, I always tell my daughter sometimes, I don't like you, but I love you.

Jess: 37:02

And I would rather her say, I don't like your behavior right now, but I love you no matter what. And I love you no matter what. No buts. And I love you. Cause remember your kids right now are scared and terrified. They have been working so hard. So hard to get to this point and, oh my gosh, it's so much to do still. And then there's these expectations and they're not, like you said, your daughter's not doing the traditional route. She couldn't be comparing herself to other kids. Well, they're going to college and I don't want to. Exactly.

Randi: 37:34

That's another thing is they have their own peer pressure from this. Their friends are doing certain things or so and so is going to Ivy league or so and so is not, or so and so is going to trade school or so and so is. Whatever. And comparing, am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing? Am I, do I want to do this? Do I want, and let's be honest, our minds change all the time. So maybe that path you started on isn't the path you want to take the day of graduation. And maybe they're fearful to tell you, Hey, I decided I don't want to do

Jess: 38:04

that. I'm telling you. I am telling you, ours, he was going to go to a four year college. He was going to do this. And then all of a sudden he said, I'm going to go in the military. And we were like, wait, what? What? You don't like

Randi: 38:17

our rules? 360, what just happened? You don't like

Jess: 38:19

our rules, but you want to go to the military. Okay. And then the next thing you know, we had a Marine person showing up in our driveway and he calls me and he's like, Jess, Jess, the Marine was in my driveway, in the driveway when I got home today. And, and I was like, The recruiter. What? I was like, you're not even 18 yet. He was like, can you help? I was like, yeah. And we talked about it. I said, how can I support you? He was like, I'm not ready. I don't need him showing up at my house. So I called him up and I was like, dude, he's not 18 yet. Too much. Don't show up at my driveway. If we want you, we will reach out to you, which I get it. They're recruiters, but he was like, that freaked him out. I was like, yeah, it wasn't the thought. We thought you were going to go that path, but

Randi: 39:06

Hey. And so just being able to pivot with what they decide and go with. I changed my mind 500 times about what I'm going to eat for the afternoon. So it's let alone a life, what can feel like a life altering decision. And did I take the path? I, I was one of those people that planned out. Every aspect of my life, and I have this 5 year, 10 year, 15 year plan. Didn't any of that happen? F no. I know.

Jess: 39:31

If anybody told me that I would be sitting here doing a podcast in Idaho, I would have been like, oh, what?

Randi: 39:36

Right. Or that I would be a psychotherapist. I would have probably, well, I wanted to be an art therapist. So it's not like that far off. But I ended up having to take my mom got ill and I ended up having to take a huge gap between college and I didn't get where I wanted to go until probably 10 years later. And I was so hard on myself. And that's the thing you have to understand. Our kids are probably having this inner dialogue in their mind and they're probably beating themselves up over things. So we don't need to probably beat them up too about

Jess: 40:06

it. No, just hug them and tell them you love them,

Randi: 40:09

celebrate their achievements, whether they're small or big, just the little things to, to let them know that you're not just harping on things that are like negative, but find the positive in that and really cherish those things that make them unique,

Jess: 40:22

find other things to talk to them about. Besides, did you take out the trash? Did you do the dishes? Did you turn in your homework? Yeah. Find something else to have conversations. Pull them out of their room or go join them in their room. Mm hmm.

Randi: 40:35

Yeah. Sometimes I'll just go and I'll sit on my daughter's bed and she's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, it's so weird. And I'm like, I'm here, but they can come in our room all the time and just hang out. She'll steal our makeup. She comes in my room. Night and we have these full conversations and her dad is like, what is happening right now? And why is she and I'm like, I, I never dissuade that because I love it. I cherish that time and it helps this period when we're struggling and frustrated as a parent or as a caregiver, I just am like, okay, I look forward to that

Jess: 41:07

stuff. I think my daughter gets weirded out too. When I go and lay in her bed, she's got all these squish mellows all over and it's so comfortable. And she's like. What are you doing? Yeah.

Randi: 41:15

Why are you laying on my bed? Why are you touching my stuff? I'm like, I just want to be here. Cause it's

Jess: 41:19

soft and it's great. And I said, this is really fun. Yeah.

Randi: 41:23

Cause your room's super cute and mine doesn't have a bunch of cute stuffed animals and things all over the place. No, I'm an adult. Yeah.

Jess: 41:29

Boring. Remember that when your teen is navigating this last semester of high school and all of these challenges that they are throwing at you, this is a very natural process.

Randi: 41:43

It's normal. We're normalizing

Jess: 41:45

it. It is normal. They are not. Trying to be a holes, they really are just having all of this, like Randy said, these inner dialogues,

Randi: 41:55

all these feelings and hormones and stress. And I just want to say, I hope that this normalized it for you, because when Jess talked to me about this. I took such a big sigh of relief and was able to step back and also give myself perspective about it and my teenager as well. And it helped as a whole, just being able to talk about that. I wasn't alone in this. And yes, even us as therapists, we still struggle with that on the daily.

Jess: 42:24

You're not alone. This is a very normal process and it's going to kick up some anxiety in the house. Even the dogs are probably acting out at this point. Right. This is just normal guys. You get through this.

Randi: 42:37

You will. And we hope this episode has helped you today.