Imago Dei (Season 4 Episode 5)

We trace a living map of Christian anthropology, from Imago Dei and dignity to mercy, worship, and stewardship in a tech-shaped world. Along the way we ask how baptismal grace can form our daily choices and make our communities more humane.

• why naming Christian anthropology matters now
• Imago Dei as the source of un-losable dignity
• Augustine’s restless heart and the human longing for God
• Jesus as model for seeing and treating others
• baptismal grace as power for daily mercy
• worship as the people’s response to revelation
• oneness and belonging beyond bloodlines
• stewardship vs ownership in tech and ethics
• building guardrails for power and progress
• practical examen for practicing dignity

Please consider supporting the Discalced Carmelites of the Semi-Province of St. Thérèse. Links are in the show notes. Pray for us that the Holy Spirit gives us the time and grace to cover these topics well.

Transcript

Cold Opens, Colds, And A Pivot To Theme

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the My Friend the Friar Podcast, and thanks for listening. If you like My Friend the Friar and want to support us, please consider subscribing or following us if you haven't already done so. And if you found us on YouTube, then don't forget to click the notification bell when you subscribe so you'll be notified of new episodes when they release. Thanks again, and God bless. Thanks for joining me and my sick friend the friar, Father Steven Sniffly Sanchez, a disc housed sniffly priest, Carmelite Variety. Good afternoon, Father.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Good afternoon. It's that time of the year.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah. And you're on the up and up, though.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Well, yeah, much better. Much better.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I still think you got like some strange Australian virus or or germ from y'all's surprise visitor the other the other day. And I'm still shocked that the guy made it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah. Ice and everything. Everybody was surprised. And he drove, he rented a truck, and he drove from DFW to our place on the ice. Yeah. In the ice. That's crazy. It's a I asked him, uh, was there any traffic? He goes, nope.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

That's uh, I guess if there's anyone crazier than a Texan, it's gonna be an Australian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Yeah, and I I asked him if he was used to the cold. He goes, no, I didn't pack for the cold. He says, I came to Texas because thinking that it was gonna be warm. And then um he says the warmest it ever gets, or the he says the coldest it ever gets in Australia is 70, where he's from.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Well, I know where you're moving. Yeah. That sounds like a nice winter 70. Wait, are there any caramelites down in Australia?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah, we have uh carmelites in um Sydney and Melbourne, I think.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

How many of them speak Spanish? See, I think there's a real opportunity here for the I could go there.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I I have a mission.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I have a mission. There you go. Get you transferred somehow, and then and then I can come visit. That'd be great. There you go. Yeah. And it's not like you you're not used to dealing with scorpions and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

That's yeah, yeah. We're used to that kind of stuff here.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So well, goodness. So well, I'm glad you're feeling better. Um, yeah. We'll see how long we'll start the timer. You know, like in the funny movies or cartoons, it's like however many days since somebody got hurt in the house or something. We'll just start one and how it's been zero days. Or actually, I don't know when you'd think you'd consider yourself not sick anymore, but we can we'll start a timer. It's been however many days since father got sick.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah, probably, I think probably Wednesday. I mean, I'm still I guess I got the sniffles and stuff, but the fevers and stuff stopped. So that was that was interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, I can't believe it was that high either. It was like 105? Yeah, that was that was on uh Tuesday, on Tuesday night. Yeah. I've had a 104 fever before, and that did not feel good. I can't imagine 105.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Oh I hadn't I hadn't reached delirium yet, but I'm sure I was getting close to it.

Why Name “Christian Anthropology”

SPEAKER_00 3:55

You're like, Lord, are you speaking to me? Lord, Lord, Lord. Well, speaking of of the Lord, um, so today we want to talk about Christian anthropology. What does it mean to be human? Um and what what is it in Latin? Imago day dei, right? Like uh we're we're made in the image of God. Yeah. Why does this before we even get into it? Why does this concept of just like Christian anthropology, what about it is interesting to you? Okay. Um bits of kind of nerds over here, right? And so like there's it's just fascinating to me for some reason. It just really tickles my brain.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah, and I think probably first is uh modern or postmodern um culture humans um that we actually had to come up with this title, this word, right? Christian anthropology, right? Whereas before it wasn't necessary it wasn't necessary uh to name it because it was just part of the culture, part of the understanding, right? So the whole idea of the incarnation, the whole idea of being made in the image and likeness of God who was very much part of the culture of the believing, the believing community. And so one of the things that that always kind of fascinates me is how come, why did we have to come up with this title? What happened to us, what happened to humanity, what happened to culture, um, that we actually had to name this idea, this found fundamental idea. Uh, we had to name it because it had gotten lost or forgotten or something. So to me, that's part of the part of the fascination with this and right and I think um the Eastern or the early church fathers, the whole idea of um God becoming man so man could become God. That's always been a very fascinating kind of a summation of um what it is to be uh a believer, to be part of the community of faith. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I yeah, it's like we forgot where we come from. Yeah. As a well, maybe not as Christians. Well, I I guess I shouldn't try to speak for all Christians. But uh, you know, probably shouldn't even try to speak for all Catholics. But the fact that um we forget how amazing we are as a of uh of a creature, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Yeah, and maybe part of it too is again through the whole philosophical um development in uh modern and postmodern uh humanity, the whole idea of uh the humanism, a secular humanism, right? The the humanism and then also uh existential philosophies or philosophers and Christian existentialism. So we actually had to some of these movements we had to find a way to still make Christianity or Catholicity a part of that or a way of of bringing it into the culture of belief or how we understand things, right? So yeah, interesting, interesting things.

Imago Dei And Human Dignity

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, it's like as we've become more enlightened, you know what I mean? Like as we we're smarter now, yeah, that now it's like we're we're as a culture, we're moving away from well, actually, I I kind of want to say we moved away in the past tense from looking at existence a certain way, um in that understanding that we had. And I kind of feel like now lately, maybe it's um there's a bit of a turnaround. Like people are starting to like rediscover and yeah, that Rosie Cotton is driving me bananas because she wants me to come play with her. Um but you know what I mean? It's like there's a there's a I I feel like people are starting to the pendulum is swinging the other way. You know, I think people are starting to look around and go, yeah, I'm not just a really smart ape, you know, and I'm not just an accident. There's more to this. So but anyway, here we are, right? So we've got the image uh we are made in the image of God, and that leads obviously to like this inherent worth of every person and um the catechism. It's right at the very beginning of the catechism, right? Like the paragraph like CCC 1702, it's like the the divine image is present in every man, and um and then I always forget the part where and you always correct me every time I bring it up, or you you've you've helped me remember in the very beginning how like we're longing for God, like it's on our hearts or whatever. What what's the the how does it go from Augustine? No, well, no, in the catechism, like it opens up, right? Like we're looking for God, like we're searching for Him, like innately.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah, there's there, yeah, that there is a natural desire in the human heart to be transcendent, you know, to look for the transcendence. So there's something about that in the human person. The human person is naturally a religious being because because we're made in the image and likeness of God, and because we are looking for transcendence, then that is part of who we are, right? And it's part of our being. And so the human person is just naturally um looking for this connection to the supernatural, to the transcendent, right? Whichever way um a particular culture um manifests, that we, of course, would say God has prepared us for the revelation, and so we understand that that transcendent transcendence that we're looking for is actually God or the the name that we use uh to name that is the name or the word God to try and name that ultra ultimate transcendence, ultimate other.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

So um sorry, I was trying to see while you're talking if I could pull it up in the online version of the catechism. In the catechism, yeah, but I forget where it is. Yeah. I guess everybody should just go back and listen to our first episode on the catechism, and they'll find it. Because we open up talking about it in the in that first one. But anyway, um, so yeah, so it's it's it's in the catechism, right? It describes this longing for God because we're made in his image. St. Teresa Vabula, right? I went and found some quotes. Uh God alone is enough, and Saint John of the Cross in the evening of life, we will be loved on, oh sorry, we will be judged on love alone, right? So like there's this human dignity that comes from us being made in the image and likeness of God.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

So I think that's that's part of the whole, and again, it goes back to the whole idea of this progressive revelation where God has been revealing himself to us and through our sacred history, what we call our Bible, that God has been preparing us for this revelation of Himself to us, and in that revealing to us who we are. We have that through the story of uh creation and the making of uh or the creation of Adam and Eve, right? So all of that is part of that whole uh understanding of being made in the image and likeness of God, therefore then the result of that is that all human creatures are worthy of respect and dignity.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

And it goes back to the for us, you know, that we talk about uh the sanctity of life from from birth until natural death, and that's that's it. That is that's where this comes from, is that there is a dignity of every human person that should be recognized and um be made aware of for all people, that regardless of what that person um person's capacity or or limitations uh that the person may have, that that does not diminish who they are because they are made in the image and likeness of God. So yeah, that's where all that comes from.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah. So like it the full I guess the fullness of our of our of the human story, right? What it means to be human is that we're made in God's image, there is a fall, we're broken, right? So to speak, and then there's restoration, right? That's that's kind of like the the summation, the fullness of our theology too, right? That the that there is a healing then that is also taking place. But the healing doesn't make sense if you don't know where you come from, right? If you don't know that you're if there if you don't realize that you're a fallen creature, then you don't need healing, right? And if you don't realize that you're made in God's image, then you don't realize that you obviously are not God, so that you're fallen and you need healing, right? So like so this I like saying Imago Day, it's it's it is fun to say. Um like how does it shape how we treat one another as people? Like you're saying, like we all have our limitations and stuff, like how should it, or how does it affect our interactions with not just other believers, but all people?

Jesus As Model For Seeing Others

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Well, again, there there is the there is the teaching, there is the tradition. This is all part of the consequences of God's revelation of himself and his revelation of who we are and what we're meant to be. Um the fundamental belief and understanding that we, each one of us, is made in the image and likeness of God, it should bleed over into the way that I relate to others, right? Um the idea of being made in the image and likeness of God is one thing, but the living out of that consequence is another, right? So uh it should. The challenge is that it should affect the way that I see all of creation, that not only are we created in the image and likeness of God, and each one of us, regardless of how broken or sinful we are, that we need to be treated with dignity and respect. And so the for us, the incarnation, the model, the image, the example, the exemplar is Jesus Christ Himself and in the Gospels, right? The way He lives this truth. And this is a witness to this reality, the way He treats the those that others considered less than, the way He treats the marginalized, um, the way He treats uh the lepers, the sick. Because at that time, anyone who was suffering some illness was believed to be punished by God and therefore unworthy of that you know consideration, right? Obviously, you did something wrong, and that's why you're suffering. And so Jesus sort of undoes that. And his question to you forget which gospel it is, about the Tower of Silawam and the and I was just saying about that, yeah, yeah. And those that were killed, uh the Galileans that were killed in the temple. Um he says, So do you believe that they were more sinful than the others? He was like, No, no, that has nothing to do with that. There is no, that's not it, and so it's a matter of uh bringing to the forefront um this idea of uh the dignity of the human person uh in such a way that it informs all of my relationships. That's what it should do. Um we see it in a very uh uh spectacular way in the life of Jesus Christ because he treats everybody with dignity, even those who disagree who disagreed with him. Uh he might get into a catechetical argument with the scribes and the Pharisees, but it's because out of love for them, out of respect for them, that he's trying to get them to understand um the true covenantal life, right? Um so he he treated everybody with respect, those that follow him, those who calumniated him, and even those who murdered him. Uh there is a desire to educate and illuminate their minds and hearts. The fact that in the passion, we see how he interacts with Pilate. We see how he is silent before the crowd that is condemning him, right? So he he is there is this respect and dignity not only of himself, but also in his interaction with the rest, even to the point of you know excusing his murderers, you know, asking the father to forgive them because they don't know what they're doing, right? So this is something then that that um is not just something that we should look at and wonder at. It's something that we're called to imitate. We're called to try to follow that example. Um we also have that example in Saint Stephen, when Stephen's martyrdom, and also have that example in St. Paul's own treatment by the community of belief after his conversion. Um his conversion then is is rooted in this belief in the dignity of the human person. The reason uh he was persecuting the church is not because he hated hated the communities, because he was really concerned for their health and well-being. And then when he is enlightened, then the community itself then treats him with respect. I mean, obviously cautiously, but they retreat him with respect and they're willing to engage into discussions with him uh despite of the fact that he had been a persecutor before. So they treat him with dignity and respect, because this is part of what is essential then to the Christian life, is this understanding of the dignity of the human person and of creation, period.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah. I think a lot of times people um forget or they lose sight of the fact that yes, Jesus was God, right? But he was also perfect man. So in his humanity, his humanity is not like supplemented or or made better by his Godhood, right? His God godliness.

unknown 20:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

So if Jesus could behave or act or think or speak or treat people a certain way, so can we. Right. Now we can we're not perfect, but we can aspire towards that because it's obviously it's it's possible through him.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yeah, and so the whole idea that excuse me that Jesus obviously the incarnate the incarnate second person of the Trinity. There is no sin, there is no original sin. There's there's none of that in his humanity, because his humanity is the sacred humanity, is in a perfect um responder, a perfect listener of God's will. So there is this, there's no hesitation when recognizing God's will, there's no hesitation in cooperating with it because that is what makes us truly human, right? It goes back to the whole idea of original justice. And so, yeah, this is true of Jesus Christ, but the fact that we're baptized, and through the grace of baptism, we receive everything that we possibly could need to be able to respond in that way as well. It's just a matter of are we actuating that grace? Are we cooperating with the grace to be this new creature that I'm called to be and to live as Jesus Christ lived, to to love as Jesus Christ loved, to be as compassionate as Jesus Christ is compassionate and to speak the truth as Jesus Christ spoke the truth. Yeah.

Restless Hearts And Our Calling

SPEAKER_00 22:19

And not not just to your wife when she brings you a snack, but to the murderer, right? To the thief, to the person who cut you off on the road and all that. That's we're called just as much there. Okay, so so but we are fallen, right? And that's our our scripture salvation history, right? It tells us, it shows us um and some other quotes in the middle for Gummut and I did put it in the notes because I I liked it so much. So um the catechism the the line I was thinking about earlier it's from paragraph 27. So it says the desire for Gamma is written in the human heart because man is created by Gammaud and for Gummud. Okay. And then Mugustine Saint Augustine he says um in his which I anyone who hasn't read Confessions like should it's a it's a good little book. And he also has I know we were talking about the other the other day um Bishop Barron has a good like writing voice like his his style um say well Saint Augustine obviously it's translated but um he I like the way he writes um it's it's not just intelligent but it's kind of flowery a little bit too um it's I like it. Anyway he says you've made us for yourself O Lord and our hearts are restless until they rest in you and that's just both of those things to me they just highlight not just that we're fallen but we're longing for God right he's always seeking us out and that's again that's what scripture shows like that he's never given up on us he's never stopped seeking us uh and and drawing us to him right and so so the whole idea of then Christian anthropology is that recognition the recognition that we have been created by God for himself.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

And so everything tends to move towards its completion or its perfection so the humanity then created for God created by God for God is humanity will tend towards that striving for that right the difference between the rest of creation and ourselves is the rest of creation doesn't have free will free will.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

And so it it follows its own nature right so an acorn will become an oak tree right and it will continue to grow and strive and and be its best self right for the human person um we tend to get things messed up and we we might believe that we're oak trees when we're not and so this is the whole idea then is that Christian anthropology is about catechizing teaching educating illuminating the human mind to this truth this is what you created for you were created to share in the divinity of God himself because that is his intention um from the very beginning for you right so this is part of that idea uh of Imaj is this is what we're called to yeah do you think the the more you realize or the more like you contemplate the fact that we're fallen um and that we're in need of that healing or in God's mercy um like how does that how does it deepen our understanding right like the more you contemplate it because I don't think it's something that's just a trivial footnote like it just moves you to the next point. I think there's something that you can really there's something good from spending time contemplating that. I think because it's like we need we need it and so it's like the more you think about it the more you realize you need it I think the mercy you mean?

Mercy, Baptism, And New Life

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah yeah yeah I think the more time you spend reflecting on the consequences of that um Imajide is if this is true then so and this is true we were made for him then that means that we are made we have the capacity for that and I think the more you think about your capacity that we're made to share in the divinity that therefore that means that I am made capable of living and being in that state of what we call sanctity, wholeness, integration whatever you want to call it excuse me excuse me. That there's something there about um not just the fascination with that what that's what we're called to but also the fact that we are so broken, so fallen um and that God in his infinite love and mercy takes all this into consideration and continues to call us out of our brokenness and woundedness, out of our fallenness into a deeper and wholer, more integrated relationship with him. And so then this leads us into the whole question of you know God's mercy that this is who he is this is part of God is love and part of love is this understanding of mercy of relationship of understanding compassion and empathy right um you said earlier God um God became man so that man might become God um how does God's grace or how should should is maybe always the way we should say it how should God's grace transform our daily relationships well I think first you know um let me st let me start with this whole idea of mercy and relationship with God because then that leads into this whole idea of baptismal grace and and daily living out of that grace. The compassion the empathy the loving response of God that we have in our salvation history story of the creation and the fall we see that God treats Adam and Eve with great love and great respect after the fall and speaks volumes about this you know this spirituality is very much part of what we call the Old Testament this whole idea of compassion understanding one of my favorite titles for God in the Old Testament is Long Suffering. I mean which is just a way of saying very very very patient patient to even though Adam and Eve have to suffer the consequences of their choices by bracketing God and making themselves owners of the garden instead of the stewards of the garden but God doesn't turn his back on them he doesn't give up on them. Instead he clothes them he he makes clothes for them and then he promises them a future restorer right and so this whole idea of mercy then is something that should be very much part of our understanding of what I am called not just to receive but to live in and to share and to make part of my own worldview. So the idea of mercy then comes from Jewish word which means which we translate as mercy but it has a lot of connotations. The connotations of Hesed is that I belong to this patriarch I belong to this tribe and the head of this tribe this patriarch extends to me his protection from others from other nomads right from other bandits and stuff so the whole idea of I am under the protection of this patriarch this tribal head but I also have an obligation to live up to this honor that has been given to me right this Hasid, this mercy that has been given to me. So I have an I have an obligation to honor that and how do I honor that I honor that by treating others with the same respect and compassion empathy protection mercy right so how does this transform our daily relationship so then being baptized into Jesus Christ that means then we have become God's children. We are truly God's sons and daughters it's not just a title it's a reality an ontological change in us we have changed our way of being through the grace of baptism and so I am now this new creature. So with this new way of being we're also given the means through which we are to live this new life when we call that grace it is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit that not only makes us God's children through Christ but also gives us the tools necessary to live this new life that we are called to be I am called to be son, to be daughter which means then I'm called to live that in the way I relate to others, the way I treat others, the way I perceive others. And that's where I think a lot of the coherence has to come in or the challenge comes in can I treat others that way that do not think like me do not have my same skin color don't have my same eye color don't have my same social or economic standing I don't have my same social skills can I still treat them with dignity right um I keep coming back to this whole idea of the the lepers and the way God the way J Jesus treats the lepers and at the time it would be um I don't think I don't think I don't think we truly understand the social pariah that lepers are. And the these totally opposite of what it would be to be a pious Orthodox believer and yet Jesus gives them so much time and attention and respect and love and a listening ear. And so I think that is always something for us to look at and to to see that right um so yeah I mean I think that there's always that challenge uh we can always fall into our um comfort zone and we can become complacent in in our mercy right in our understanding of what it means to be a believer and I think this is where I think this is where the big big big challenge is and it continues to be and it will be until the Lord comes in glory.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah yeah and it's not like he had you know latex gloves on and and uh you know face mask to keep from getting germs and stuff when he was going and spending time with them he was very much the way God entered into our reality and into our filth and brokenness. Yeah yeah something when you were speaking about the like the the tribesman part for some reason it it made me think about um Israel's longing for a Messiah kind of thing. And then that in my brain tied all the way back to Advent kind of the inception of it where it's like you know thinking do we long for Jesus now and in the future and like all the different layers to it. And I think kind of when when you think about our our humanness our anthropology right um our nature I think you can't help but kind of be put into one of those kind of advent sort of mindsets right I need healing I am healed I will be healed kind of all layered together kind of thing um does Christian anthropology shape how we be church how we worship or is that kind of too much of a stretch?

Treating The Marginalized With Honor

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Because I think no not at all because God gave us worship like he said this is how you're to do this so it's part of our salvation history and so to me they seem connected yeah and so um going back a little bit to um the teachings of the Second Vatican Council fathers one of the things that they were trying to get across if people would only read their documents please read the documents all together in context of one another not separately yeah yes all sixteen documents um as God reveals himself man being the naturally religious being that man is or human humanity is that response to God's revelation is called liturgy and we respond whether it's um able's sacrifice in the field or whatever it might be right so the there there's a response to that right so this whole understanding of you know anthropos the man anthropology the study of man or the understanding of who we are as humanity as human beings right um does it shape how we worship or how we be church yes because that is foundational to worship and church so Christian anthropology or the understanding of the human person in the light of the revelation of Christ is how we are to understand the self as well as the being of the other so in our worship in our liturgy in our prayer in our relationship with God we are called to be one and Paul uses this whole idea of one body many members of the one body Christ is the head we are the body he he tries very hard to try to explain this and John in his gospel talks about you know this mutuality right so like I want them to be in me the way I am in you and you are in me and they be in us and we be in them this whole idea there there is this there's a very um profound profound understanding of oneness and solidarity that we don't have words to express that right but this is the foundation of our worship and and our call to be church.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah and he ties that to how people will come to know him or believe in him like this is how foundational it is that he ties it all together.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Yeah yes yes and so this understanding that we are family that what's most important is my family of faith up above and beyond my family by blood right and the there's a lot of people that have a hard time with that but just read the gospel. So this understanding of the family that I belong to should be part of my foundational way of coming to God because it is the understanding of community of faith right so all of us church triumphant church militant church suffering and those are old terminology because we don't have any new way of speaking of that all right uh the church in space and time the church that is in glory and the church that is suffering purgation right all of us all of us we are one we are one being one body in Christ who is our head and I think there's very little consciousness of that we don't think about that as much as we should because that is this whole understanding of what it is to be community and to be in communion um so the early the apostles and the early church fathers they didn't have an expression of Christian anthropology because it was again it was a foundational understanding of the being of the church the fact that God calls each one of us to become part of his people right so he calls us into community into this community of new creatures that are called to live this Christian way of life so he wants then to share himself with me and my understanding is that I under I perceive understand and am trying to respond to God's call to me to share in his divinity in the very mystery of Christ's incarnation because Christ's incarnation is the summation of it all.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

I mean in Jesus Christ true God and true man the two natures unmixed undivided I mean that is what we're called to that is what the church is called to be such a intimate intimate union with God and sharing in his divinity that is represented by the incarnation and this is that what it is to be divinized deified sanctified redeemed this is what all this is trying to to get across yeah I wonder if there's a reason the church is called Catholic I don't know just all catholos catholicos something to maybe to think about so how should we so like now modern times um you know we didn't we don't talk about church triumphant and and church militant and all that stuff but now um you know we have crazy medical technologies and you know people are always you see how many movies are out there we love our movies of like people being augmented so they're like cyborg and whatever superhuman kind of things like and there's we've got so many ethical yes yeah we got so many things going on right nowadays. How should this inform how we approach the use of technology or ethics or whatever um because I just don't want it to end up like it is in the movies because it never works out.

Oneness, Liturgy, And Being Church

SPEAKER_02 43:06

You know what I mean and that's how and that's the moral of all those stories is that it never will work out whether human people whether directors and writers of movies actually understand that that's another thing but that that the whole purpose is that we're called to share in God's divinity not to be gods I'm not called to be God I'm called to share in God's divinity um so um so whether we're talking about Christian anthropology whatever words we're using Catholic humanism Christian um an understanding of of uh the world right um I know I'm always trying to get you to say something to get you I know yeah I'm always trying to I always have to sort of filter myself because this is being recorded and people that don't know me may may be offended This whole idea of Imago Day, all this, there is a basic stance then of this is the basic stance of the believing community. So as if this is the basic stance of the believing community, how are we to approach technology, ethics, and creation? So this again, this is the foundational stance that the council documents of the Second Vatican Council are trying to educate us about. So the creative intelligence and power of the human person is meant to take charge of creation, but as stewards, not as owners, not as exploiters, right? And so Adam failed in his stewardship of creation because of his disobedience. He failed in his stewardship. And so now we, through Jesus Christ and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, we are called to steward creation, not to abuse it or exploit it. We are called to steward the human family, not abuse or exploit it, or members of the human family or members of ethnicities or whatever it might be, that we are called to stewardship. And this is the beautiful part of the humanism, whether it's secular humanism or Catholic Christian humanism, that there is a desire for the betterment of all persons. And that's a beautiful thing, right? So that's something that we should always encourage. Now we should ask ourselves then about the consequences of our discoveries and advancements, right? We do we spend time considering this, you know, reflecting on this, right? So the fact that the human person is capable of splitting the atom, it is a wonder, it is something awe-inspiring. But did we pause to consider the abuse of this technology, this capacity? Did we, knowing the concupiscence of humanity, our fallenness, our brokenness, and our tendency towards abuse, did we put in place the necessary guardrails to prevent abuse? Right? For example, the internet. The internet is is a great invention idea, right? This this is wonderful. But did we stop to consider the addictive nature?

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Yeah. Yeah, cell phones, same kind of thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah, do we did we stop to consider the wide-ranging abuse of this invention? The possibility now of the internet, uh, the possibility of passing off lies as truths. And now with AI, right? Dude, to be able to fake, uh, to have an image of each one of us that looks like us and talks like us, saying things that we would never say and passing it off as truth, right? And the whole possibility is now the whole understanding and idea of the dark web, all these things should have been thought out carefully. I'm not saying that we should live in a police state. There should be police, a police state attitude. What I'm saying is, are we being faithful to our stewardship? Am I really understanding that I am a guardian of creation and guardian of humanity? And am I am I looking for and searching for the well-being of all instead of what am I going to get out of it and what profit am I going to make? What is my quarterly profit, right? But you know, is there a real discussion of these possibilities in in today's culture, obviously? No. And allowing the community at large to contribute to the discussion. We don't want to. The culture right now is not, I don't want anybody to disagree with me, I don't want anybody to make me think. So, like, no, I don't want anybody, I don't want to have to change my mind because it's it's too hard to change my mind. So, again, those are all things in terms of uh stewardship that that we need to be able to address and ask ourselves these serious questions. We are where we are. Why? Because this is where we've allowed ourselves to be.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yeah. It's like um Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park, and he with the line where he's like, um, you guys are so busy trying to figure out if you could, you never stop to ask yourselves if you should. Right. Right. Yeah. And that I think that's a that's a good um this concept of stewardship is a good thing to reflect on because it removes the the kind of flawed thought of ownership and it shifts it to responsibility, right? Like because you can you can be responsible for something you own, yeah. But um look at look at it. But you're you're only doing it because you own it.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Look at the the I wish yeah, you should invite Betty in here, but maybe not. Uh the steward of Gondor. Yeah, that's Lord of the Rings, yeah. Image of someone who is under the title of steward, but actually is acting as if they were the king, as if they were the owner.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yeah, you're supposed to be taking care of this thing. Instead, you've made it yours. Yours. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 49:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

And so I think that's there's something definitely there to think about because it's part of our human nature is to steward God's creation, right? He says like subject it or you have dominion over it, right? Like go to go not own it, but like steward it, all of reality. Yeah. Hmm. It's very interesting. Very interesting. So, what could how could we um kind of this understanding on uh who we are, you know, how could we or how should we try to reflect on this?

SPEAKER_02 50:35

You know, I would say examine ourselves in our relationships, um examine ourselves in uh our kindness towards others, our lack of kindness towards others? Who is it that I am more favorable to and why? Um and should I not have at least a mindfulness of people that are different from me or people that I don't understand? Should I at least consider the fact that God loves them and cares for them regardless of their brokenness and woodedness or whichever way we see them or or understand them? That there is a foundational dignity there. And I think that's that's where we can begin is this reflection on how. Yeah, the golden rule. Yeah. Am I treating others the way I myself would like to be treated, right? Am I treating others with dignity the way I would like myself to be treated with dignity?

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah, I think there's probably a lot of um sins and virtues that kind of swirl around this concept too of our human nature. Well, I guess really, technically all of them, I guess, if you're really thinking about it, like our sins is when we've missed that mark and we're not living up to our what we're created to be. Yeah, our potential. Our virtues are when we are, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I like this idea, the the the um connection between this and worship. I think there's there's something I think there that I really want to explore.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Maybe we can do another episode about the the call to community. What does that mean to to worship? What does liturgy mean, really?

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yeah. Well, Father. Yeah, thank you for hanging out with me, even though you're icky, a little, a little sniffly and a little congested. Yeah, maybe next time we get together, you'll feel better. Okay. Thank you. God bless. I love you. Everybody, thanks for joining us. We'll see y'all next time. Bye bye. Bye.