Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive
Welcome to Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive, the ultimate resource for mental health professionals ready to step into their power, grow their practices, and create a career they love. I'm Dr. Kate Walker, a Texas LPC/LMFT Supervisor, author, and business strategist who's here to show you the path to success.
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Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive
141 Behind the Clock Face: When Therapists Need Their Own Therapy
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
therapists needing therapy is, I mean, I think back in the day, if you worked with freud like you were automatically in therapy, right? And I think psychodynamic, which is freud's theory, and young, uh, which is psychoanalysis, right I? I think you have to be in therapy if you're learning those theories, but not many people learn those techniques anymore, right? I mean, what would you say? The theory was that you learned in grad school.
Speaker 2:I mean we touched on the major ones um, freud, young, uh, gestalt person centered, narrative, existential, but it it was. It was just enough to get like a frame of reference for what the theorist was. But we didn't spend like a whole lot of time really diving into the techniques or, you know, doing any sort of role play with any specific one.
Speaker 1:It's hard, I know as a when I'm an instructor, you know. I think what we try to help students learn is, you know, person-centered, how to reflect, how to not ask questions, how to make sure that they're giving a good content back. So it's not a lot, I mean okay. So, clients, if you're listening to this what's going on, you'll see your therapist face and they may be nodding and and reflecting. Okay, it sounds like you're sad. It sounds like you're so sad and you're wondering if you'll ever be happy again. But in their mind they're thinking about what they're going to say to influence you, right? We're looking for ways to influence you toward your goal, right? So when you came to counseling, you said you know what I need to find a better job. Help me find a better job, help me. Or, you know what I'm anxious all the time. Help me be less anxious. So we've got your goal in mind.
Speaker 1:But as we're listening to you, I call it behind the clock face, you know. So, those of you who don't know what an analog clock is it's round and it has numbers on it. We hang it on the wall. So if you imagine the clock face, what you see are numbers. What you don't see is the mechanism behind the clock face moving all the numbers right. So there we are, we're thinking about these things and we're thinking about what we're going to say next. And so for you musicians out there, it's like you know your right and your left hand are doing different things. You know piano player, you've got a left hand doing bass, you've got a right hand doing the melody, so it's doable. It's not like we're doing. You know we're not breaking the atom here or you know, sending a rocket into space. We are listening to you, but we are formulating a response through our theory and dot, dot, dot, our own shit. And this is where it gets really weird, because if a therapist hasn't worked through their own shit, you may get some weird responses.
Speaker 1:And that's what therapy is for. I mean, you know we've talked about needing therapy because we're burned out, right? And Jennifer, you know you talked about like, just because there are 12 hours in a day doesn't mean you have to have clients back to back every single hour. I mean, getting burned out isn't good for anybody. And going to therapy for that is wonderful. And therapists who are doing that good on you. I'm so proud of you. You go to therapy, you're dealing with the vicarious trauma and things like that.
Speaker 1:But we all have stuff, and that's why clients come to therapy. Right, because the family blew up over the turkey at Thanksgiving because somebody was supposed to bring cranberries, and they brought cranberry juice or something, right? I mean, everybody has stuff, but that's our filter. I mean, just like you have a filter for your coffee and that's what the water brews through and it turns into coffee on the other side of that filter, doesn't it? So how, how can we be helpful if our filter is turning what we're going to say into something very harmful? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:I'll never forget the first. I had a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad experience with a family member.
Speaker 2:Um, it was. It was not good, and I will never forget the first time I had a client that reminded me of that family member, and it was. I mean, it was like you could have poured cold water on me and I'm sitting here like trying to because it's not this client's fault. This client is here, they need help, and it's not fair for me to be interpreting everything they say through this lens of the experience that I had with this particular family member, and so that's one thing I processed through therapy, like I need to go to therapy so I can deal with what happened in this interaction over here, so that it has no impact on how I work with this client. And I don't. I don't think therapists understand that till the first time it happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're right. And did you ever have a professor tell you like so most of us will put students through a values clarification, like we want to know what your triggers are basically, and we'll have you fill out stuff like you know what do you? How do you feel about abortion or suicide or someone who doesn't have sex like me? Right? So so that you can do that introspection and we don't do anything with that in class because we're not your therapist, but one of the things and that's my question for you, did you ever have a therapist say the person who triggers you the most is going to be the person who shows up in therapy.
Speaker 2:No, but that's so true.
Speaker 1:I tell my students that I mean, if you're having an issue with your creepy Uncle Fred and you know this is I'm not kidding whether it's a couple, or even you know someone who is not male like Uncle Fred, when they come through the door, if they talk like them, if the cadence of their voice is like them, if they lean forward like them and point their finger at you like them I mean something about their mannerism can trigger, like that filter snaps into place and you're like right. And it takes a lot of training to be able to stop and say, ooh, is the thing that's about to come out of my mouth helpful or is it my own?
Speaker 2:shit. Am I talking to Uncle Fred or am I talking to my client? Because they are two different people and just because they remind me of each other does not mean they are each other. Yeah, I'll never forget. I had a professor tell me that there was a particular population that they wouldn't work with, and it was a very general but also a very specific population, because that population triggered that professor. And I remember thinking as a student, you can't turn away every 35-year-old person that walks through your door named Susie. But that was the first time I realized that we, we like we should work through this, but, but a lot of people don't.
Speaker 1:Well, that's one of the things you know. Maybe you know, going back to things you wish you had known earlier in your career is that exact statement right? If I'm triggered by someone but I've already agreed to help them and we've built rapport and they're sitting in front of me. They don't know that I'm triggered. They don't know. This is my issue. As an ethical therapist, it's my obligation to work through my shit so I can continue to be helpful to them.
Speaker 1:If I stop the session or wait till the session's over and go, oh, you know what I just realized, I can't work with you because, oh, it's, don't worry, it's not you, it's me and it's fine, and I hear three referrals there. We're good, right, have a nice day. Oh, I mean, that's that's awful and we are professionals. That's why you know, that's why we hold a license, and so you know, if you're out there shopping for therapists, please check and make sure they have a license. Please make sure that they hold a state piece of paper that says that they are able to do therapy with you. Because this is one of the things I I know. We are trained to go deal with our shit on a regular basis and to be aware when our shit is clouding what's happening in the therapy room, and that's part of what supervision is for, too right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and it's easy. We have so many interactions and so many relationships that it's easy to find in any client something that reminds you of something, whether it's yourself as a kid, or as somebody you knew, or somebody you dated, or somebody in your family, like it's. It's very, it's very easy because that's what our minds want to do. The human mind wants to draw connection. We draw connections through patterns.
Speaker 2:Patterns show up in repetition and, and that's why, you know, we might meet somebody and go, oh, you remind me of my friend, and we instantly bond with that person. And it's not because we know them, it's not because we really truly bonded, but there's something in them that reminds us of that familiarity. I can't talk with somebody else, and so, as a whole, we have to learn how to shut that off and treat every client that comes to the door as an individual, with their own unique problems and their own unique personality, so that we don't, you know, like one client more than we like another client, because this client reminds us of this friend that we had back in high school that we love dearly. It's so that we can keep that ethical. You know, we treat everybody the same, with that same justness and fairness, so that we don't it just as easily, as we don't like them. You know, we connect too much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and speaking of that, that's still the number one reason that therapists and mental health professionals get complaints filed against them because we have sex with our clients, get complaints filed against them because we have sex with our clients. And so the word for this everybody who's not in the business is called counter-transference. Counter-transference it means I am interpreting an incorrect message. It's my stuff, not the client's. I'm supposed to be a receptacle for the client. I'm supposed to be listening, reflecting, influencing, listening, reflecting, influencing for the client's wellbeing. And the minute I start thinking, huh, they're kind of cute. Yeah, you know what? I think we could. We could probably be a thing. Uh, you know, and my texts happen to get a little longer and more explicit, and I mean, I laugh, but it happens.
Speaker 1:I know, I know. And the idea that we, as counselors, would look at therapy as only for people with problems, I mean, oh my gosh, how hypocritical is that? Right? I mean, for us it's just maintenance. And counselors, therapists, mental health professionals if you're listening to us, it's not saying that. Okay, if you find yourself attracted to a client, you're doing something wrong. No, attraction is normal. Anybody can be attracted to anyone. It's acting on that attraction, and are you professional enough to be able to stop and go? Whoa, I need help immediately. I need to call my therapist. Or, if you're still provisionally licensed, I need to call my supervisor. And if you're afraid of your supervisor, call a supervisor you're not afraid of. And, by the way, fire the one you're afraid of, because this is normal.
Speaker 1:Counter-transference isn't something we cure in a therapist. It's not something that we ever get to the bottom of and it's done and oh right, we're, we're, we're all better. It's just who we are and we're human beings and therapy helps us get to the bottom of it. So we don't make that mistake of acting on something that is not in the client's best interest, right, I mean? Or something that's harmful for us. You know, I mean, I remember you know you were talking about that. I remember when my dad came into the therapy room and this guy he did not look like my dad. He did not have the same accent that my dad has or had. He did. I mean nothing about. This guy looked like my dad until he leaned forward and pointed his finger at me and raised his voice which, by the way, clients, you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to do all of that, right, Therapists, we're trained to take that. It's part of the. It's part of the healthy session. You're to do all of that, right, therapists, we're trained to take that. It's part of the healthy session. You're totally okay doing that.
Speaker 1:I started crying in session. I busted out crying. I was so embarrassed and I was just like, oh my gosh, what have I done? You know I ended the session. I called them later, I apologized, they apologized to me and I, as a professional, I could not recover that relationship. I ended up giving them referrals, but I did. I had to take it to my own therapist and say what the hell I mean I've been a counselor for 15 years, by that point and it's like what the hell just happened. I thought I was. I thought I was better than that, you know, and they just laughed. Oh silly counselor.
Speaker 2:That's so cute. Oh, bless your heart.
Speaker 1:Yes, she blessed my heart. I did that's funny an oath, just like all of the other professionals, to do no harm, and we cannot do something in our interests that is harmful or against our clients' wishes. So, yes, therapy, get the therapy therapists right. I mean anything you want to add to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's always necessary.
Speaker 1:It necessary. Just a good me too.
Speaker 2:And it, and it. I think it gives you some credibility anyway, because I've. I've literally had clients tell me like oh, you don't understand, I'm the one in therapy, I'm the one with problems, and I laugh and I'm like no, I've been a consumer of therapy many times in my life. Let's just normalize that.
Speaker 1:What was that old hair clip for men? Right, I'm not just a spokesperson, I'm a customer.
Speaker 2:Yep Exactly.
Speaker 1:Everybody needs therapy. It's not. Therapy is not just for broken people. You are not broken If you go to therapy. Look at, look into my people. You are not broken. If you go to therapy, look into my eyes, you are not broken. It means you are doing your best and you're trying to do something amazing. So, even if you're a mental health professional, get your butt to therapy.