JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Autodesk CMOs Painting a Clear Vision for the Future

In this episode of Visionaries, you will hear from two powerful leaders who share a deep connection that goes beyond the boardroom. Dara Treseder, CMO at Autodesk, and Carla Hassan, Global CMO at JP Morgan Chase, first met at a dinner in NYC at the start of Dara's career. Despite their different backgrounds, they bonded over their shared experiences as immigrant leaders. Carla recalls, "When you are one of the few, you sit together, because you understand each other's experiences." This heartfelt conversation is a testament to what can happen when leaders truly see one another as equals. Join us as we explore how setting a clear vision for the future is bookended by people and potential. You won't want to miss this inspiring episode.

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Transcript

Autodesk + JP Morgan Chase & Co

[00:00:00] Nadine Dietz: Hello, everyone who's joining welcome to visionaries. We have a wonderful show here today. We have two really wonderful ladies joining us, Carla Hassan, who's the global CMO of JPMorgan Chase, and Dara Treseder, who is the CMO at Autodesk.

Before I have them [00:01:00] join me here, just a couple of notes 

we want to thank our partners, the wall street journal and our parent company 24 7 for supporting visionaries. For those of you who don't know 24 7 or marketers that matter markers of matter is a community of marketers who come together to support one another sharing best practices like we're going to do here today.

And 24 7 is a talent company who helps build out great teams with marketers and creatives. Okay. With that, I'd like to ask Carla and Dara to join me.

Hi, Carla. Hi, 

[00:01:29] Carla Hassan: Tara. Hi.

[00:01:36] Nadine Dietz: Thank you two lovely ladies with me. Powerhouses. Oh my gosh. I feel like this is a week of incredible women. So this is awesome. We're going to jump into a really important topic today. We're going to be talking about painting a clear vision for the future. And boy, is that hard to do? So, , before we talk about that, I would love for each of you to give me a little bit of background on [00:02:00] your current focus and a little bit about your journey to where you are today.

So Carla, let's start with you. 

[00:02:06] Carla Hassan: Well, first of all, Nadine, it is so nice to be here with you and Dara. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here and to see both of you guys. For me, my journey started a long time ago, uh, in the Middle East. I was born in Lebanon, raised in Dubai.

When the first Persian Gulf War broke out, my family moved to the United States. We had family in the U. S. We were here visiting for the summer, but we actually ended up making the decision to stay here and not move back to the U. S. And so I ended up enrolling in university here in the U. S. Uh, we were in Colorado for the summer, and so I ended up enrolling, uh, at the University of Colorado in Boulder, and then I moved on from there and went to graduate school at Thunderbird, , for their, , international business program, and I, I, I knew that eventually I wanted to work internationally and globally, and, and, , I've been very fortunate [00:03:00] enough that my career has taken me to , a few places.

, but I, you know, started my career actually in Michigan working for Kellogg's and I eventually found my way to PepsiCo and I spent 13 years there, ultimately heading up marketing for Middle East and Africa, , in Dubai, which was really nice to be able to go back home after leaving the way that we did so suddenly because of a war.

, and then I came back to the U. S. With PepsiCo and I, You know, had been there a little over a year running all of marketing for our global beverages group. And then I realized that I wanted to do something different. And so, um, uh, and I had been extremely fortunate in my career there, but I really had seen the kind of future of marketing head towards more first party data.

And as we started having conversations about, Performance marketing and digital marketing. I felt like I wasn't getting necessarily enough of that actually in my career in consumer packaged goods at the time. And so I went to save the giraffe at toys are us and you want to talk about a formative [00:04:00] experience.

I know Nadine, you and I have had that conversation many times and then eventually found my way into financial services where currently I'm the, as you said, the global chief marketing officer, JP Morgan Chase, and I'm so happy to be here and so honored to, , lead a team of. So many people around the world, so many talented people around the world.

And what I would say is, you know, my team oversees all of marketing firm wide brand and media and partnerships, performance, marketing, operations, strategy, corporate impact, many other areas, but the current focus areas for me, um, continue to be, how do we drive the business and balance that with connecting and engaging with our consumers?

How do we. You know, how do we know when to jump on the latest trends and when to know they're just a fad, how to protect our brands and our company while still driving innovation? Um, you know, when do you really disrupt the status quo? So all questions that I think we'll tackle a little bit today, but really, that is kind of my focus on how do I [00:05:00] steer the organization in a way to continue to drive growth, but do it with data, do it with science, do it with humanity, uh, and do it in a way that continues to protect the brands.

[00:05:11] Nadine Dietz: Wow. Amazing. Um, what a journey and Dara, you similarly have an exciting journey. So can't wait to hear from you. 

[00:05:19] Dara Treseder: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that is that exciting, but, um, you know, um, I was born and raised in Nigeria. So I actually lived in Nigeria for pretty much all of my life until, , I went to a levels and then ended up coming to the U S for college.

And I remember, , As an immigrant, my grandfather had to empty his bank account so I could go to college. And you know, so many people contributed to get me to get me here. So I feel like I'm standing on the shoulders of giants and a huge sense of responsibility for what I do. So for me, it's never been about me.

Like, you know, it's always been about. Impact and about how I can [00:06:00] be an example to others, because I remember when I was coming up in my career, there weren't a lot of black women that I could kind of look to and be like, Okay, I can rise, you know, I mean, I didn't even think of, oh, I could become this so I could become that I remember.

As my career progressed and kind of seeing Ursula Burns become that first CEO of a fortune 500 company. That's I don't know her, but I talk about her all the time because she's such a positive impact in my life and just knowing that that was possible. And so. Throughout my career, it's been about how do I drive impact and how do I help people see what's possible, right?

By my myself being inspired by others and, you know, doing the work to kind of drive as much impact as I can in the industries that I've been in, you know, I've worked in a variety of industries, whether it's on the consumer side and tech and finance on B2B tech and enterprise tech, you know, in B2C, in B2B2C, And I think the one thing that has been consistent throughout my career is I see myself as a [00:07:00] business leader whose expertise is kind of, you know, marketing, communications, commercial and that area.

And so I've been really focused on how I can, as a leader, bring my expertise to bear. But really use that to drive growth for the companies that I'm in. And, you know, growth means different things in different environments, right? When you're, you know, in the middle of a pandemic, what growth looks like is very different than when you're emerging from a pandemic.

And it's about how do you navigate all of these different circumstances and situations and do it with as much. You know, grace as possible. And, you know, when I think about my journey, I'd be remiss to, to talk about my journey without talking about the people, um, that have contributed to who I am and where I am and everything that I am.

I am a product of the work of many, many, many, many hands, whether that is my grandfather emptying his bank account, my mother, um, giving me my forever life North star of ambition with [00:08:00] contentment or the many. Team members that I've had, you know, you're nothing without a team. I always say it takes a team to win.

And, you know, all of the, the, the success that I've had has been because of the phenomenal humans. I've had the privilege to serve to work with to learn from. And so, you know, I feel I feel. Very grateful for the journey that I've had. It hasn't certainly not been easy being a black woman in corporate America and tech is not easy.

And in fact, these days, one could argue that it's getting harder. Um, you know, but when, but when I think about what I'm focused on right now, you know, I recently joined Autodesk. I haven't, I will have my one year anniversary coming up in October.

We've done a lot over the past. You know, I've been talking about the focus area. You know, we are really trying to drive growth for the company, and we're trying to do it in a way that drives more impactful outcomes for our customer. So I really like that because [00:09:00] many times as a company, when you just say I'm focusing on growth, what does that really mean, right?

How, how, how are we focusing on growth and for us, it's about transforming how our customers experience Autodesk really improving their outcomes. That's what we're focused on. And so that's what I'm trying to rally my team around. Insights data, the things that can help us help our customers be better and shine a spotlight on them and the great work that they're doing.

And, you know, it's tricky because I think on 1 hand, you have customers dealing with uncertainty, right? Whether it's uncertainty of the geopolitical environment, the macroeconomic environment, what's happening, you know, in the stock market on any given day, or you're dealing with potential. Right? A I what's going to happen with a I generative a I What does this mean for our business?

And we have to be there for our customers to navigate not only the uncertainty, but also the potential. And so being that trusted partner is part of the journey for us. Wow. 

[00:09:57] Nadine Dietz: Oh boy. This is, we're going to have a packed [00:10:00] session today because we have so much to dig into. Um, but real quickly, I have to ask you this, Dara, you know, when we asked you if you wanted to be on visionaries, you said yes, but only if.

I can be on visionaries with Carla. So I want to know why 

[00:10:14] Dara Treseder: you said that because I'm Carla's biggest fan. I know there are many in the audience, but I'd like you to know that I am president of her fan club. Yes, I will battle you for the for the spot. I love Carla. I think she is such a phenomenal leader.

It's been amazing to watch her career, right? Going from kind of CPG to finance and driving growth and, and brand impact across the board. She's also just one of the most amazing humans. I don't know if you even remember this story, but I met Carla, uh, earlier on in my career at a dinner in New York city.

And I just remember, you know, I really wasn't anyone at that point in my career. I was still climbing, you know, where I wasn't known. And I remember just. Maybe not everyone paying attention to me because you know, you know when you're unknown and people are like a why is [00:11:00] she at this dinner let me focus on the like really important cool people.

And Carla was so lovely to me and I will never forget that because now you know I mean I've accomplished things in my career. So it's very different because I know those people who, you know, treated me like I was like sandpaper or dust and she treated me so well. She treated me as a human. It wasn't like, where are you working or what are you doing?

And I just remember us bonding and really talking about our experiences, the work we're trying to do, how we're evolving as people. And I'll never forget that because that was such a pivotal moment because it, it really taught me something that no matter how important you are. No matter how much you've accomplished, you should always treat people really well.

And I think that's part of why she's had such a, but I'm a big Carla fan. I could go on and on, but, you know, 

[00:11:44] Carla Hassan: wow. I feel like we should end it right here and I should just go. 

[00:11:49] Dara Treseder: My day is not going to get better than that. 

[00:11:52] Nadine Dietz: That is so awesome to hear. And Dar, I got goosebumps when you were talking because I think I know what dinner you're talking [00:12:00] about because I saw you that day when you were going over there.

Yeah, 

[00:12:03] Dara Treseder: I think you did. 

[00:12:04] Nadine Dietz: I think I did. Yes. It was the ad council dinner. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay. So Carla, you said yes right away. Why, why Dara? 

[00:12:17] Carla Hassan: Same reasons. I feel like, um, first of all, my gosh, honestly, I, I joked about being done and let's go home because it'll be the best part of my day and my week.

But, um, Dara, you actually have no clue how much your words mean to me. Um, because I think, you know, for years and years and years, um, frankly, before COVID, um, you know, being a. decent human. Um, and being an empathic person, uh, was always perceived as that's the person in the room that's too nice. Um, and I've always been that person.

And so, you know, to be able to hear that that had impact on you, um, really [00:13:00] means a lot to me. And so thank you for that. Um, and I will tell you there is absolute mutual respect. I know when Nadine said, Hey, would you do this with Dara? I, I, I didn't even like, I was like, but I do this with Dara. That's not even a question.

You should just say, Dara wants to do this and you guys are going to do it together. I mean, you are clearly a master of your craft. Just hearing you. speak about your journey to where you are right now. Well, first of all, seeing your journey, uh, and we were at, we've been at a couple of events together where we've done, both done presentations where we've been honored for stuff and like, just hearing you speak your genuine nature, the way that you kind of, uh, bring your whole self.

to work has really always been, um, extremely interesting to me. And, and you're a boss lady, like your work speaks for itself. Um, and so, you know, I have much admiration and respect for the work that you have done and how you've pivoted in your career and taken all these, you [00:14:00] know, turns. that give you just even more and more and more experience that most people would be afraid to do.

And I, I just give you a tremendous amount of, of respect for that. And, you know, but most importantly, um, you are a proud immigrant. You are an. Unbelievably proud mom. You, you talk about your husband in ways that I think are incredible. You are a champion of diversity in the business. All of the things that I can relate to and all things that I deeply, deeply admire.

And so the, the, the, the feeling is very mutual, my friend. Wow. 

[00:14:36] Nadine Dietz: I'm looking at the chat. People are feeling the love. I'm feeling, I feel like I'm in the, I'm, I'm in a private room. I should probably leave. So, but, but no, I want to be here, 

[00:14:45] Carla Hassan: you know, Nadine, I will tell you, I do think those things are important, you know, when you're either the, you know, the First, obviously, I'm I'm an Arab immigrant and Dara is African.

And, you know, when you're the first in a lot of cases, [00:15:00] um, or, or one of the very few, you know, it's, uh, you, you, you stick together because you understand each other's experiences, you know, you know, Um, what people are are going through. I know Nadine, you know, um, we had a lot, we've had so many conversations about in general sort of Arabs being kind of an invisible group, right?

Because we pass, you know, in a lot of cases for being white. And so, in some cases, you know, people completely misunderstand us when we, you know, come from a totally different cultural background because they expect us to be something different. I think it's the same thing, you know, for folks who are immigrants or folks who look different than everybody else.

And so the fact that you can find people that are connected to you in one way, shape or form, you hold on to that. And then when you can respect them even more than just the connection with them, I think it's really magical. So that's, I think what you're feeling here. 

[00:15:56] Nadine Dietz: Yeah, 100%. And you're right, Carla, we, you [00:16:00] and I and Dara have all had many, many conversations about this and I'll never forget the moment that you and, uh, your amazing husband, Tarik Hassan, who is the CFO at McDonald's, uh, wasn't at the time, but when the two of you and I spoke with Heidi, when we were at Adweek, And we launched the unaccounted, uh, that was pretty intense for the me network, um, population.

So not only do both of you give back to your teams, you get back to the industry, get back to the community, you're driving change for D and I, and I appreciate all your efforts as incredible role models being. In a position where more young women and girls can see what's possible because we know that's important.

So thank you both. Appreciate that. Um, okay. We have so much to cover. I, I, I, I feel like that was the best part of the whole day too, but we, we do want to get back to how you boss ladies, as you said, um, really paint the picture for the future, uh, and a clear vision and [00:17:00] dark. I saw you less than 2 weeks ago in Autodesk and you were.

Head to toe pink, and it was for the day before the Barbie movie launched and all the work that Autodesk put into that movie. Um, we're going to come back and talk about that in a minute, but tell us a little bit about that day, because I think it sets the precedent for why we're here to talk about the future.

And that forum that we, uh, you hosted on in your office for us. Thank you. Was called balancing motivation, innovation, and uncertainty. So what did we talk about that day? And why are we talking about vision today? 

[00:17:35] Dara Treseder: Yeah, well, it was certainly lovely to be able to host that because I remember some members of my team were saying we've been to marketers that matter events at other.

I think being part of a community is not only taking, but it's also giving. And so it was really an honor for us at Autodesk to be able to kind of bring, bring, bring the community together. You know, the reality, like, you know, I kind of mentioned earlier is there's the uncertainty and then [00:18:00] there's potential.

And I think. As as marketers as leaders, we're trying to balance all of those things, right? We're trying to balance uncertainty. We're trying to balance innovation, how to take advantage of the of the potential that exists, but we're also trying to balance motivating our teams. And the reality is life just has been evolving, right?

Since the pandemic, things have continued to evolve and there isn't like a new normal, but we're in this constant state of evolution. And that makes it more challenging, right? How do you motivate a global team that might not be meeting, you know, is not coming to the office every single day of the week, right?

How do you manage a global team that might be dealing with just the continued impacts of, of the stressful, you know, Life, you know, in a kind of following the pandemic, but in the new reality of the world that we live in, how do you keep people motivated when it feels like people have been running for so long?

And it feels like I can't take my feet off the gas. And so I think that conversation was really great. And it was such a wonderful [00:19:00] conversation because we were talking about how you manage all of those things. And I think the 1 thing that stood out to me across, you know, the many great pieces of insight that were given was really about how.

It's important for us to model for our teams, who we want to be and where we want to go, and that it's really important for us to create an environment where people can thrive. Right. And that is an intentional thing that doesn't just happen once, but happens consistently, and again and again and again and it's sort of like going to the gym or working out.

You can't be like, Oh, I went, you know, last year, I'm going to be, you know, chilling this year with my ice cream. It's like, you can enjoy your ice cream, but you have to go again this year. Like if you're going to be healthy, it's going to be something that you do consistently again and again, and again. And I think that that's the same thing when it comes to motivating our teams, being innovative and navigating uncertainty, we have to do it at a pace that we can sustain, because I don't think there's ever going to be.

[00:20:00] You know, the pace of change continues to speed up, right? Life continues to get faster and faster. And with the evolution of AI, it feels like things are accelerating at a breakneck pace. And so it's really critical that we, you know, make sure that we model who we want to be, where we want to go, and that we're creating that positive environment for our teams, where we can navigate all of those three things.

[00:20:22] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. And Carla, I'm sure you, you and your team have been feeling very much the same through this year as many teams are. So let's, let's jump to the future for a moment. As you think about balancing all these things and the ability to set that clear vision for the future, What are some of the things you're thinking through right now that you think can help others in their journey?

[00:20:42] Carla Hassan: It's a, it's a really great question. And most definitely, I think we're, you know, we're all feeling the same things that Dara is talking about and, and not, frankly, not just in our industry, but obviously in all industries. And I think those, you know, what Dara was talking about, I think are really important reminders for me of [00:21:00] truly getting the foundation right and never losing sight of what that foundation is, right?

As it relates to financial services, we certainly have a responsibility to grow our business, but we also have to do it within these regulatory guidelines, make sure we're doing things right by our consumers, every consumer, every single time, which makes it really hard sometimes to want to do some things that are more uncertain or unknown, right?

And so you can imagine the team's kind of conflict with that. But I think, you know, one of my roles as a chief marketing officer is really my responsibility to help the organization see where that growth potential can be and how innovation can help drive that growth, obviously in a responsible way. So there are certain things back to what Dara was saying that I just talk about.

All the time in any forum. I can, uh, anytime I'm in front of a small group or a big group, and I just think that repetition really helps people understand kind of, you know what the vision is and how and [00:22:00] what my expectation is of not only the role that we play as business leaders in the organization, but how we're going to get there.

Right. And so when I think about some of those things, I always talk about the Things in marketing that stand the test of time growth. And so, you know, Dara said it right. We, you know, marketing exists to drive business growth, full stop, end of story, you know, now how we get to that growth is going to be different depending on the size of your business.

It's going to be different depending on the objectives of your business, the industry that you're in all that stuff, but growth is really kind of at the heart of everything. So no matter what we're talking about. It. In terms of what's new, what stands the test of time is that we exist to drive growth.

What also stands the test of time is the customer or the client at the center, B2B, B2C, B2B2BC. It doesn't matter. Customer at the heart of it, right? And so, you know, marketing really has to continue to be the, The at the center of gravity, a key advocate for who that customer is, who that client is. Now, [00:23:00] I will say this is changing a little bit in the sense that historically marketing used to be the only kind of advocates for the customer or the client.

But when you think about other, other parts of the organization that now have as much data, in fact, in some cases, even more data than the marketing community has. It's really interesting because they also understand what the customer and the client needs. But I do think marketing really is the change agent in organizations with the, with the customer as the, as the more star.

And then the last thing I'd say that always stands the test of time is this idea. of creativity and data. And I just don't think that will ever change. No matter what the tools are that we have, those tools have changed in recent past and they continue to change. And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about technology.

Um, but but at the end of the day, we've always needed both of those things. Even when we didn't have access to first party data in real time, even when we didn't have Access to AI and other technology. We [00:24:00] still even before Martek was a think and digital marketing was a thing. We still had some data. It was third party data.

And then we also had to be creative with that data. And so that doesn't change as it relates to marketing. And I think it's important as a As a leader to continue to let your teams know like what you're grounded in as you think about the future. But when I do think about the future, um, the reality is I love what Dara was saying about.

I see myself as a business leader first that has the functional hat of marketing and the expertise of marketing because more and more, none of us make decisions in isolation. None of us can can make decisions without building relationships across functions that a lot of us have never had to work with before.

Finance, in my case, risk, product, technology. Um, and I just think Not just understanding those areas, but, like, [00:25:00] really understanding what makes those businesses and those functions and their leaders tick becomes really, really important and increasingly, I think, more and more important for marketers as we think about, you know how to innovate and how to set the visions for innovation and for the future.

And so I think those are probably as I as I think about it, you know, I would say to anyone who's listening. Thank you. Really think about what are the jobs that need to be done that are just basic stakes all the time. And that, to me, are the things that you just continue to harp on, right? Here's how we're going to do business.

Here's how we have to think about our function. And then you can start layering on. Here are the new things that you have to start thinking about as it relates to integrating different innovation, as it relates to bringing people along on the journey. And then you. And then the last thing I'd say is, remember that it is about your people.

How do [00:26:00] you, how do you take that team along with you? Because at the end of the day, you could have the best ideas. You could innovate on the best products you could. I mean, but if the people don't believe in it, if the people don't understand what the purpose is, if the people don't. Like invest themselves in it.

It's never going to get done. And so as leaders, increasingly, we've got to really think about our people and their role in making things happen. So 

[00:26:25] Nadine Dietz: amazing, amazing. And oh my gosh, I can't believe we are so close to being out of time. I may go over by a couple of minutes. Cause I just have a couple more questions for you guys.

So just hang in there with me if you don't mind. Um, but I have to remark on one thing because both, both of you. Have so much wisdom and guidance. And what you just said is like the playbook for all right there. Um, between the two of you, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. But the thing that strikes me about both of you is you're both very calm and confident.

And I remember when I saw you in Cannes, Carlo, at the Google round table, we're talking about AI and [00:27:00] you took it first and the way that you. Layed out how you're thinking about AI. We're not gonna have time to go into today, but it was like the sense of calm, like you got this. It doesn't scare you. And I love that because it can be very scary.

Technology is moving so fast. Dara, look at what you just did with Barbie. Tell us about that. What, like, what did you do? Like, that's crazy. 

[00:27:20] Dara Treseder: It's so exciting for us because one of the things that we love to do is tell the stories of our customers and, you know, our Autodesk platform, which is used to design and make games.

Basically anything, including almost every movie that you watch, which includes Barbie, um, you know, they kind of used our moxie on production to on our platform to integrate their pre post production and their visual effect processes seamlessly. So you like Barbie, you're welcome. Um, you know, and I think it was just so exciting to be part of such a phenomenal cultural moment that not only, you know, because this movie was more than just a movie.

Right. It was also, I think, a rallying cry for women and, you know, in. And when the past sort of [00:28:00] 12 to 18 months have been a bit challenging. And, and, and, and I think it was also just an inspiration and a reminder of the fact that you know we are, we are more than what we look like we are more than the box people put us in we are more than the box we put on, we put ourselves in right and that there's so much we can accomplish and it was such an empowering and motivating message and of course, even more exciting to be able to work.

On something by Greta Gerwig, who has now become, you know, the first woman to really break through when it comes to the box office. And she's had the largest box office, um, of any woman in the United States being, you know, movie being directed by a woman. So it's also been exciting from a cultural standpoint to be, to be part of that.

Amazing. 

[00:28:46] Nadine Dietz: So, okay. We are our shoot. We're out of time. Okay. Um, Oh my God, we're going to come back and do part two, but okay. Before We log off, I'll ask you both to give me your top career advice that you've ever [00:29:00] heard. Um, Carla, let's go with you. 

[00:29:03] Carla Hassan: Uh, I'd say two, one, um, be unapologetically you, but understand how that impacts others.

Don't change who you are, but understand that you're not for everyone. Understand how that is. So empathy, really. Um, so, but be unapologetically you. And then the other is, I would say, um, find your personal board of directors. They're very important to your life. 

[00:29:26] Nadine Dietz: Wow. Amazing. Uh, this is another goosebump moment.

The first time I met with Dara, she talked about the importance of a personal board of directors and that was years ago too. So it's weird that that just came up right there. So Dara, 

[00:29:39] Dara Treseder: how about you? I won't say that one now. Um, I think treat people how they want to be treated, not how you want to be treated.

And I think that's really important because many times we think, oh, I'm just treating them how I want, but they're not you and they might need something different. So treat people how they want to be treated, not how you want to be treated. And I think chase opportunities that create other opportunities, you know, and focus [00:30:00] on enjoying the journey.

Don't just think about the destination. One of the best career moves I made was not because I thought it was a great career move. It was because I married my husband. After two months of dating and really wanted to work for myself. So I could spend maximum time with my husband who I'm absolutely obsessed with, and that was the, definitely the right decision, but it also accelerated my career.

So I say that a lot because I think many times, especially as women or, or just as people in general, we think, Oh, I've got to check every box and I've got to do this to get there. Career's a jungle gym. It's not linear. Um, and give yourself some grace. 

[00:30:33] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Wow. Thank you for making my whole day amazing.

Um, this is so inspiring, and thank you all for tuning in and joining us. 

Uh, thank you. Thank you. 

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