Chipotle and The North Face Marketing Execs | Leading Purpose-Led Brands

When it comes to purpose-led brands, Chipotle and The North Face are leading the charge.  Chipotle is dedicated to providing fresh, real, and responsibly sourced food, while The North Face is obsessed with equipping and inspiring people to live extraordinary lives. 

We invited Chris Brandt, Chief Brand Officer at Chipotle, and Sophie Bambuck, CMO at The North Face, to join us on Visionaries to discuss their personal, professional, and corporate purposes and how they support important causes through meaningful campaigns.  In this episode, they expand on five marketing tips for putting purpose in the driver’s seat:

1. Find Your Personal Power First, Then Your Place.
2. Remain True to Your Company’s Core Purpose
3. Fuel Sustainable Causes through Brand
4. Create Avenues for Customers to Get Involved

You can read the recap and explore more content here: https://www.marketersthatmatter.com/chipotle-and-north-face-purpose/

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Transcript

Chipotle + Northface

[00:00:00] Nadine Dietz: Hello, everyone. Welcome to MTM Visionaries.

I'm your host. Nadine Dietz. I'm the general manager at Marketers That Matter and the EVP at our parent company 24 7. Today will be super exciting with two incredible guests. We have Chris Brandt, who is the chief brand officer at Chipotle and Sophie Bambook. Who is the CMO at the North [00:01:00] base, and we're going to be talking about purpose in the driver's seat, which is such a passion passion topic of mine.

Um, and I hope it is for you too. So we're going to learn all about what that means for their brands. We're going to hear about their journeys and we're going to hear about their career advice for all of us wondering. How to get to the top. So before I bring them on, I just have a couple of quick notes.

, as a friendly reminder we do love to take questions. So if you have questions for Chris or Sophie, please do feel free to drop them in the chat window or in the Q and a, you'll find both those buttons at the bottom of your screen.

And we will be keeping an eye on those along the way. Um, we really appreciate everyone who's been asking some great questions over the last few weeks. It's been great. 

And then finally, last and not least a big shout out to our partner at the Wall Street Journal.

We thank you very much for all of your support. And, um, we are just delighted to have them as a wonderful partner. So, okay. With that, let's bring on Chris and Sophie.

Okay. Hello, Chris. [00:02:00] Good morning. Good morning. Hello, Sophie. Hi. Hi. I'm so happy to have you both with me today. , what a great topic we have in front of us purpose in the driver's seat. , but let's first , talk about you and your role today and tell us something fun, something you like to do outside of work.

Chris, let's start with you. 

[00:02:20] Chris Brandt: Yeah, I'm the chief brand officer for Chipotle. So all things marketing kind of roll into me. Also, I'm responsible for our new restaurant development. So this year we'll build more than 250 restaurants around the country. , outside of work. I like to play a little bit of golf.

I'm like everybody my age, I'm playing a little bit of pickleball. So, uh, yeah, those are the two things I like to do.

[00:02:42] Nadine Dietz: I'll have to induce you to Josh Cole at one point. You'll have to remind me to do that. And I'm going to come back because your title just changed from CMO to CBO. So I want to hear more about that as well.

That's correct, right, 

[00:02:52] Chris Brandt: Chris? Yes, they gave me the development job, um, but didn't pay me anymore. So they just changed my title to reflect that.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:02] Nadine Dietz: Well, good for you. Okay. Excellent. How about you, Sylvie? Tell us about your role and what you like to do. 

[00:03:08] Sophie Bambook: Yeah, sure. Hi, everybody. , so I am the CMO at the North Face. Uh, it's actually been my one year anniversary today. So, uh, I know everything. , congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Um, but yeah, , what Chris was saying that, you know, All encompassing marketing, um, we have global teams, , around the world, , that are obviously, , pushing the brand forward for us, , across all facets.

So, , super excited to be leading the brand, , at the North Face. What I do for fun. Oh my gosh, that is such an interesting question. When you have two, , young, , kids at a young age, . , but right now I discovered, I probably shouldn't even say this. I discovered Korean drama and I've been watching a ton of Korean shows on Netflix and I'm not sleeping enough because they're totally addictive.

So that's kind of what I'm doing right now. Don't judge me. You can ask me, ask me what I'm watching, [00:04:00] but no judging. 

[00:04:02] Nadine Dietz: No judging. I find that really cool. So that's awesome. 

[00:04:06] Sophie Bambook: I need to learn how to speak Korean now, but you know, details, details. 

[00:04:11] Nadine Dietz: You know what, there's, there's an app for that, I think. So, uh, well, Sophie, let's continue with you for a moment because I've actually been privileged to see some of your journey firsthand, but can you share more about your journey and what inspired you to take on your current role?

And then Chris, I'm gonna ask you the same question. 

[00:04:28] Sophie Bambook: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. , my goal has remained the same, right? I, I think I, I believe we all have power. , and my goal is always to figure out how to use my power best. , and there's certain things that I believe in. I have certain values.

, we're talking about purpose. So it's exactly on point. , for me, it was really about, , two things. One, figuring out how to apply and how to leverage my power. , power, , in an environment that I feel, , comfortable and confident in. So a [00:05:00] brand like the North Face, you know, previously I was at Everlane, , which was, had a huge, , sustainability mission.

The North Face has, , an amazing, , mission and purpose. , we are athlete led, we are providing product benefits, uh, for our athletes, hence the consumer. , and so that just so you just made made sense. And then the second bit of this in terms of my career evolution and what I've been looking for when I actually before taking this role, I was really thinking about, , marketing.

Do I still want to do marketing? Marketing has evolved tremendously. , and some could say the pendulum , swung really far from like being maybe at some point really brand led to being really, really, , data and performance led. And I feel like we're starting to get a little bit more balanced now, but I really had to question what I wanted to do.

And so, because I'm more of a brand marketer, , I felt it was essential for me to work for a brand that had higher ambition, higher goals, and that could aim to change people's lives. And so, Yeah, that [00:06:00] was the natural evolution for me to honestly go to the North Face. , and I get to work with amazing people.

So it was really hard to pass that up. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:06:09] Nadine Dietz: And speaking of purpose bearings, you, you work for Nike too. You forgot to mention that. Yeah. 

[00:06:13] Sophie Bambook: Sorry. Details 15 years. Yay. I worked at Nike for 15 years, then I moved on to Everlane and, and, um, and the North Face. But yeah, I, I, um, I learned so much. I think, the way I think about Nike was, it was my marketing school.

That's where I learned. , a lot of what I know around product marketing around brand elevation around activations and consumer journeys, , and then Everlane really allowed me to then get much deeper into what is it like to be a digital native company, , understanding kind of like how to. Turn up or down the dial, , from a, , data and digital standpoint, which, you know, at Nike, it was pretty far removed.

There were teams doing that, but they didn't, weren't really sitting into the brand marketing often. So, , I've [00:07:00] over, over the years, I've been building kind of like a more robust, a quiver so that I can actually be a much better rounded marketer. And I think at the North Face, I can finally apply both sides.

Um, both sides of the coin. So thank you for bringing Ikea up. You're right. Details is most of my life. But 

[00:07:17] Nadine Dietz: yes, most of your life is a small detail. How about you, Chris, tell us about your journey and, and, you know, and, and really, you know, I think I, did you say this is the second time you're working for the same CEO in a different role?

So I'd be curious what brought you back. 

[00:07:35] Chris Brandt: Yeah, so I started, I started my career out, actually I was in finance. And, , so I worked in banking for a while and then I worked for an equity investment company. And at that company, , everybody had an MBA and I got into more business development things as part of that role.

And so when I went back to business school, I really wanted to explore marketing. Ultimately, I felt like going to General Mills. I went to General Mills. I spent eight years at General Mills where, , they taught me all kinds of things about brand marketing. Uh, [00:08:00] then I went to... a brand called Odwalla, which was a premium juice and bars brand of Coke.

And after about a dozen years in CPG, , I got a call to go come to go to Taco Bell. And so I wanted to try something a little bit different on the retail side of things. So I spent five years at Taco Bell as, , the VP of marketing and then ultimately CMO. Then I went to Bloomin Brands, which is Outback, Carrabba's, restaurants for a couple of years.

The CEO I worked with at, , Taco Bell went to Chipotle and I was always a big admirer of Chipotle. And so even before he started, he asked me to come over here. And so this has been amazing. I had a great job at Taco Bell. We did a lot of really cool things and kind of turned that brand around. But, and I thought that that I would, that would be the best job I ever had in my whole life.

But boy, Chipotle has really exceeded that. And this is, , this is a pretty great place with a great brand mission and a great brand purpose. And I've never been a place. You know, as you titled this is about, , the brand purpose piece. I've never been at a place with a stronger brand purpose than Chipotle, and it's really founder [00:09:00] inspired.

And that's a real luxury. At Taco Bell, we didn't have really a aspirational brand purpose. We had a tagline. We had those things we got there, but that's where Live at the Mosque came from. So you're not always blessed with one. So sometimes you got to create one, but here we've been blessed with one and we were able to build upon it.

And, , it's been a really, really great journey. 

[00:09:20] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Well, let's talk about that some more, Chris. Let's talk about what Chipotle's purpose is and how does that translate for your, do you call them guests? You call them diners, like customers, , but also your employees. I'd love to hear about that, but, but I'll let you guys answer.

Sorry. 

[00:09:34] Chris Brandt: Yeah, we call them customers. And you know, you mentioned the employees cause we can't forget about that. We have. We have about 125, 000 employees at Chipotle because we own every restaurant. We don't have any franchisees. We don't have another holding company. It's just us. And so I think that, , our brand purpose, , that alluded to before our, our belief is that food has the power to change the world and our brand purpose is to cultivate a better world.

And that really lives, , in the hearts and minds of the company from [00:10:00] the beginning, you know, at its core, Chipotle is unprocessed, real food prepared fresh every day with classic culinary techniques. And, , we don't have any freezers or microwaves or can openers, we don't use any artificial flavors, colors or preservatives, our food is real, , we believe real is better real is better for you as a person.

It's better for people in general. It's better for the planet. And so, we feel like that people's people's, , desire for food and desire for unprocessed food has really caught up to Chipotle. Chipotle has been doing this before. It was really fashionable. And so I think that with that clear brand purpose.

 We're going to never going to waver from those things. We're never going to adulterate our food. We're not doing any of, we're not changing any of those principles. And that's really been a guiding light for us, through tough times like the pandemic through ups and downs in the retail business, which seems to occur on a weekly basis, but, , it's a great North star for us to have.

Wonderful. 

[00:10:57] Nadine Dietz: And I'm going to come back, Chris, and dig in a little bit [00:11:00] deeper around the food ecosystem, because I know you are very active in that space, , as, you know, dependency to what you do, but Sophie, let's talk about the North face and North face purpose. , how does that translate for your customers and employees?

[00:11:13] Sophie Bambook: Yeah, for sure. , and I think what I, by the way, I think what, what Chris said is so important, the authenticity and being very true to your root , and, , that's how you build your, your purpose over time. And the purpose might evolve, the culture might evolve a little bit, but as long as you stay really true to, to your core, that's how you grow.

And that's how you create, a resilient brand. And, , so our purpose is to equip and incite extraordinary lives. , it's it sounds ambitious. , but really, it's about us doing that through, creating the world's most iconic performance gear, , and really enabling people to find themselves, , in nature, but in themselves as well.

So we do believe we have responsibility for people to be able to think both physically, , performance, you want to be outside, you want to be outdoors, you want to summit, or you just want to experience. [00:12:00] But we also want to make sure that people grow. , personally and and, , mentally, , the beauty of outdoor nature is that it does that for you anyway.

And so the more we provide access, the more we encourage people, , to be outside, whether it's, elite athletes. , again, doing, , first descents or first descents, , or it's, the average, , person just looking for, , an experience or just honestly being outside because they have to, we, we, , there's many moments in the day where you have to be outside.

 , or purpose allows us to speak, , to all mindsets and all consumers, , in a way that is relevant and resonates with them. And I mean, , again, , I came to your point about Nike. I came from a company that a brand that has , such, such strength, , from a cultural standpoint, but then I joined the North face and it's seeing people internally , or teams are.

Living it every day. , they, , the passion, , the time that they spent outside. , it's [00:13:00] actually our purpose is really culmination of what our teams believe in. And, , it's actually pretty bad ass to see it. , and to be able to experience it on a day to day basis. It's not just word on a piece of paper.

, and that's, that's, that's really key. , all the decisions we make, , internally and externally. Are about, , this, this mission and this purpose that we have. 

[00:13:21] Nadine Dietz: Yeah, and I alluded to the fact that I'm going to come back to Chris and talk about the ecosystem. So I'm going to start with you on this 1, Sophie, just to continue the conversation here, because in order for there to be these extreme athletes, there have to be conditions that you can protect them from, but also the, the environment needs to thrive for them to enjoy what they're trying to do.

So I know you're very active in protecting the environment as well. So you want to talk about that a little 

bit. 

[00:13:47] Sophie Bambook: Okay. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we say, , we have a saying, which is, , we put our athletes at the center. So we're athlete tested expedition proven. And part of that is not just delivering benefits, , through our product, but it's also our athletes coming back and saying, [00:14:00] here, here's what I saw.

They're going places where you and I will most likely never go, , because we don't have the permits. We don't have the access. So they are seeing firsthand, , glaciers melting or, trash accumulating in areas of the world that that it shouldn't be accumulating. So we, we have, like, , 3 kind of components.

There's more, but let's say the main 3 obviously sustainability through our garments and circularity and making sure that. , our top materials, whether it's polyester, cotton, or nylon are responsibly sourced, , and renewable originatively grown. , so we have those goals, right? , but additionally, we do a ton around climate change.

, we actually work a lot with, , organizations like protect our winters or action for the climate emergency. , but I think, , we do have partners like that around climate change that allow us to have an impact. , and that is very near and dear to our athletes heart.

And we have a responsibility if we are going to keep on, , providing access to the outdoors that we do it in a, in a, [00:15:00] in a reasonable and in, , in a thoughtful way. , and then from a conservation standpoint, this is actually really, really exciting. There is a movie that we just, , came out with called walking two worlds, and it actually shows some of the efforts that we're, , providing, but, Alaskan wildlife has been really high on our On our radar and the Biden Harris administration just passed a few weeks ago.

Some really good news for us that we've been, fighting for, , and then we just support public lands across the board. So, we were 1 of the founding, , partner, , of the conservation alliance. Um, and we put a ton of efforts attention resources, , behind, , making sure conservation is top of mind.

And a lot of this is not necessarily. A call to action to consumers. Some of it is a lot of it is us working behind the scenes, , talking to public figures and leaders, , and making sure there's awareness, with people that can really make a difference. , so it's a, it's a mix of the things you see, and the things you don't see, but [00:16:00] it's really high on our on our priorities because.

To your point, our athletes are in the environment every day, and we have to be, make sure that there is still one, , for them to be able to perform in. So, really top of mind. Amazing. 

[00:16:14] Nadine Dietz: Well, thank you for all that you do. And, , Chris, you guys, actually, as opposed to the open and wildlife land, you're looking at the land that's farmed.

You're looking at the way the food is produced. You're looking at... You know, protecting our ability to continue to produce incredibly nutritious food over time. You want to talk a little bit about how you get involved with the overall ecosystem? 

[00:16:35] Chris Brandt: Yeah, look, from a Chipotle standpoint, no one does at scale what we do.

And I'll put our food up against any restaurant, anywhere, anytime from a freshness standpoint, from a responsibly raised standpoint. The thing that blew me away the most about my, , about my time at Chipotle is probably my 2nd week. So, if you come to work at Chipotle, you got to spend time in a restaurant, learning how the restaurant operations work and the inside of a Chipotle, every [00:17:00] single Chipotle, every single morning looks more like a farmer's market than any place.

Any other restaurant had ever been because we're bringing in whole avocados. We're bringing in whole onions. We're bringing in fresh produce. We're bringing in, , the chicken comes in raw and is cooked there fresh every single day. So, it just, it was very different. And that was really the inspiration for a lot of our ad campaign.

And behind the foil is we just let employees tell, tell us. What they wish everybody knew about Chipotle, but they don't. And so, , taking that as a big piece, the responsibly raised and going further up the chain. It's really important to us. I mean, we, we spend about 400Million dollars more for responsibly raised ingredients on an annual basis than we would sourcing conventionally raised ingredients.

So the marketer to me says, we put our money where your mouth is, but we believe that that's really important. Thank you. And, the area over the last few years, we've really identified that's an opportunity for us is with farmers because it's never been more difficult to be a farmer today. The average farm lost money [00:18:00] even before the pandemic.

The average age of farmers is like 59 or 60 years old. So we need to make sure that the next generation, wants to farm the way we do things because, , we have the highest animal welfare standards in the industry. We're the only 1 to get an a plus from the Humane Society for our animal welfare standards.

So what that means really is that only 5 percent of the beef in America qualifies. From an animal welfare standpoint for Chipotle, and we buy more local ingredients. We buy more organic ingredients than everybody else. We've entered in with with farmers. We're using entered into 3 year contracts with them to convert from a conventional field where they're using a bunch of pesticides over to organic because they need that time.

And they need to know there's an end market for what they're doing. If you go to, , chipotle. com forward slash farmers, you can see all the stuff that we do, but we've pledged 5 million over five years really to help young farmers because the young farmers coming in have more principles of raising food that align with what Chipotle wants to do than maybe some of the other farmers.

And so we're really encouraging them, , [00:19:00] to get started and to treat food and raise food. The way we like it done. And the way we need done is we continue to expand across the country. 

[00:19:10] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Amazing. And Chris, I want to come back to one of the points that you just made, which is you talked about, , we almost started talking about the pandemic.

I want to talk about the pandemic because that must have been almost a crushing blow to the farmers, to you, but Chris, tell us about what happened through the pandemic. How did you stay relevant and how did you stay growing? Because you were one of the only businesses that kept growing. 

[00:19:31] Chris Brandt: Yeah, I think it is. So it was a real boon to our digital business.

So I think the good news for us is that back in 2018, when the new CEO came on, when I came on, , the 1st thing we needed to do was kind of invest in our digital food, our digital footprint, because people wanted more access to Chipotle. We did a big consumer survey. We said, what would make you come to Chipotle more often?

What they said was build a Chipotle near me. What they meant was give me more access to Chipotle. So we started putting in, [00:20:00] we created a thing. It's a digital drive through called a Chipotle. So you can't order and you have to order from your phone or online, but you could pick it up digitally. So that's been a big help for us.

And that we started building those back in 2018. And then we really, we had a great app, but no one knew about it. So we drove awareness to that. But when. Okay. When the pandemic hit, a lot of our advertising was focused on that. We do handmade walk and that we're, , cutting and chopping fresh ingredients.

And we had our employees, , with their hands in there talking about these things. And that was the last thing people really wanted to see in a pandemic related environment. And so we really pivoted a lot of our advertising to awareness of our digital ecosystem. And so digital went from about 10 or 15 percent of our volume to about 70 percent at its peak.

And now it's settled at around 40 percent of our volume. But that's the digital piece. Our food travels. Well, , our digital, our, our, , whether it's through DoorDash or using our own app. , it really is fast. We can prepare food really quickly. We have [00:21:00] actually a separate make line for all of our digital orders in a restaurant versus in the front line.

So if you ever go in restaurants in the front line, and you got to stand there and wait for a digital order to come by, that doesn't happen at Chipotle. And because we have a designated digital make line, the food comes out fast. It comes out fresh. And, again, our food, we're lucky that it travels pretty well.

So that's how we got through. And I think, , now we're welcoming people back in the restaurant. Surely, as we come out of the pandemic, I think. The idea of handmashed guacamole and those things is certainly top of mind, but now we've kind of got not only have a robust inside the restaurant business, but we've got a burgeoning digital business as well.

And so I think at 1 point, I think the door desk guys told us if we were a standalone delivery business, we would have been the 5th or 6th largest in the country. So it's a huge proponent. It's a huge component of our volume, but it's a challenge for our restaurant folks because they have to learn to man.

They've never had to manage before last year. This big in restaurant business and a big digital business. They were always 1 or the other. So, we're still [00:22:00] working through those things. But, yeah, that's how that's how we managed. 

[00:22:04] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Amazing. And we have a couple of questions that came in.

Chris, I'm gonna come back to you. Jai asked how you get your customers to contribute towards your initiatives. And then Chris, I see your question around career moves. We're going to get to that as well. But Sophie, let me give you an opportunity to answer about the pandemic, because contrary to people not going to places anymore, you were right in the middle of everybody wanting to go out and having more time to do that.

So what what was learned through that time that you that really. You're leveraging now today in your in your strategy. Yeah. 

[00:22:36] Sophie Bambook: I mean, there's more new entrance into the outdoor space than ever before. And by that, I mean, customers, like people actually discovering the outdoors in any way, , very shape and form.

And then, of course, we have a lot more, , what I would call maybe competitors or other brands that have come out. And so it's actually been really interesting because it's, it has actually forced us to reposition ourselves as authentic outdoor leaders. , we didn't have to do [00:23:00] that much of it before it was.

Almost a little bit of a given, we now have to refocus a little bit because there's a lot of new people making choices for the first time ever. They're choosing an outdoor brand. They've never had to make that choice before. So now we have to actually position ourselves as outdoor leaders so that they pick us.

So in a nutshell, we had to reposition a little bit, , and focus much more on performance and outdoor benefits than we had maybe in the past few years, , prior to the pandemic, because it's a, it's a new. It's new, new audience now. So we have to refocus our energy. Yeah. Well, and 

[00:23:33] Nadine Dietz: before we go back to Chris on the customer question, maybe you have some insight there.

How do your customers partake in your initiatives? I'm guessing they're very vocal about wanting to protect the environment. Yeah. 

[00:23:44] Sophie Bambook: I mean, we have, , we have a lot of opportunities between, so we have a membership program called Explorer Pass. It's more of like a loyalty, but through that, we actually do a ton of.

Yeah. Access to the outdoors, we have the explore fund, which is, basically, , it allows we have an explore from council that manages the [00:24:00] explore fund. But basically, we actually look through the communities to see what matters most. So, , when we do have. Vocal audiences, vocal consumers or vocal communities.

We actually take that into account in terms of where we invest, what we plan for in the future. So that's 1 way. And otherwise, like I said, we have a lot of opportunities, , almost directly through our membership, , to, , provide more access and opportunities for people to engage in the outdoors and have,

yeah. Have an impact. , there's, there's many ways when we're still developing, we're still developing. What does, what does that look like in store? We're on the cusp. So we're, we're almost there, but, we try to find ways to really listen to the community and, and make sure we engage in things that really matter to the community.

Most 

[00:24:42] Nadine Dietz: amazing. Chris, how about you and your customers?

[00:24:46] Chris Brandt: Well, look, we have a great. So, , one of the cool things we have on our app is we have, um, a program where we can tell you what your food print is. We call it a food print. What? You're a carbon food print footprint is for every single order.[00:25:00] , we call it funny enough, the real food print.

, and we, the other part is we launched a loyalty program back in 2019. We now have 36M people that are engaged with Chipotle in multiple fashions. And so it's a true. Opportunity for us to really engage with our consumer on that front, , to tell them about the initiatives we have. 1 of the things we make it pretty easy.

, if you purchase a tractor beverage, we donate 5 percent of the profits back there. When you come to Chipotle, your support, , you're supporting farmers. So, , we try to make it as easy as possible, but, that's kind of how we do it. Amazing. 

[00:25:32] Nadine Dietz: Okay. Jive from the audience. I hope that answered your question.

And from Chris in the audience, he was asking about career advice. I had a whole question around agencies. We're not going to get to, , because we are out of time, but I do want to tackle this last 1 on career advice. If you don't mind. So, Chris, let me go with you 1st, and then Sophie, you can wrap us up.

, the question was around, how did you, I mean, this is a big question. So Chris, to the audience, thank you for this question. I think this could break into like five questions here. , but like, what is your best piece [00:26:00] of career advice , and hopefully you can touch upon, you know, how that resonated for you and picking the role that you're in.

[00:26:07] Chris Brandt: Yeah, I would say, you need to volunteer for tasks that other people don't want to do and don't shrink away from a tough job. , and you, the other part is you need to do a really good job with whatever job you get, like a general mills. When they were there, there's a bunch of different people that come in at the same time.

There's jobs rotating throughout the company. And, , at 1st glance, my 2nd assignment wasn't maybe the best assignment, but that 1 got promoted 1st, because it was doing a great job with something maybe that wasn't as sexy as some of the other products there. But man, it really made a big difference from a business standpoint.

And I, , the other part is I worked for some people that had a tough reputation. They were some of the best folks that I ever worked for in my career. And so you got, you, you can't shrink from those jobs. And , you got to work hard on the, the little things, , and show people that you're fully invested and you can do a good job And so you have to demonstrate on sometimes on [00:27:00] small things, how good you are at that before you get the bigger things. 

[00:27:03] Nadine Dietz: Amazing. Great advice. Thank you. Sophie, bring us home. What's your favorite piece of career 

[00:27:07] Sophie Bambook: advice? I'll be quick. I think, , when I got this, , this piece of advice, I was too young in my career to fully grasp it.

, and I actually, I think it made me mad. , but for me, it's don't pick the job. Don't pick the role. Pick the people you're going to work with. , because it's, it's actually much more valuable even to take, , maybe a lesser role, but to learn from, , the right folks to get the right mentorship, , to actually hone in on your skills by having great leaders than it is to maybe get the job and the job title.

And not have the support or the mentorship or the management, , that you need to succeed. So pick, pick the people, not the role. 

[00:27:45] Nadine Dietz: Love it. Well, thank you both for being here. I'm sorry. I took us over by 2 minutes. I tried my best, but thank you to the audience as well for the great questions and, , wonderful to see you both.

Thank you. And everyone. I hope you have a wonderful week. Thank you. [00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Chris Brandt: Thank 

[00:28:00] Nadine Dietz: you.