Beyond Brushing: Harnessing the Oral Microbiome for Optimal Gut Health

In this episode of The Nourished and Thriving Show, hosted by Katie Lovitt, a  registered dietitian focused on gut health and alleviating IBS symptoms, we delve into the captivating correlation between oral health and overall well-being alongside esteemed guest Dr. Jill Ombrello. Dr. Jill, a dedicated fourth-generation biological dentist committed to holistic and non-invasive dental practices, shares her unique approach of addressing the underlying causes of dental issues rather than merely treating symptoms. She sheds light on the pivotal role of the oral microbiome in systemic health, highlighting its impact on various health conditions like heart disease and Alzheimer's. Additionally, Dr. Jill emphasizes the importance of reducing toxic exposure through the use of biocompatible materials in dental procedures.

We also explore the significance of dietary choices, behavior modifications, and cultivating gratitude in optimizing overall health. The conversation extends to the empowerment of patients and the advancements in sleep medicine, underscoring their profound implications for both oral and gut health. 

00:00 Introduction to a New Perspective on Health

00:28 Welcome to The Nourished and Thriving Show

01:17 Special Guest: Dr. Jill Umbrello, A Dentist with a Difference

03:12 The Philosophy of Biological Dentistry

06:39 Personal Health Journeys and Patient Empowerment

21:23 The Importance of Oral Health in Overall Well-being

24:49 Unlocking the Secrets of Oral Microbiome Health

25:42 The Impact of Breathing and Oral Health on Digestion

28:52 Exploring the Connection Between Sleep, Jaw Development, and Overall Health

42:50 The Power of Mindset and Gratitude in Health Transformation

Find Katie:
Website - www.nourishthrivewellness.com
Instagram - @the_healthygut_dietitian
Facebook

Find Dr. Jill:
Website - https://www.centraldentist.com/
Recommended products

Transcript

Jill Ombrello: 0:00

The fact that I meet so many patients who have defined their reality as being normal, um, has been really fun to maybe provide a different insight, while that may be common. While it may be common that your kid has these symptoms, or while it may be common that you have these symptoms, that's not normal, and blasting that and reframing They can accept a better reality has been is my favorite thing to do because ultimately people just thrive in the environment of thinking that they could be better or healthier.

0:28

Hey, everyone. Welcome to The Nourished and Thriving Show. I'm your host, Katie Lovitt. I'm a registered dietitian on a mission to help you increase your impact and legacy on the world while healing your gut and reducing your IBS symptoms. I'm so grateful to have you here. Each week I'll inspire you to live vibrantly and provide valuable resources and information that empowers you to take bold action towards your health goals. Before we dive in, make sure you follow or subscribe to my show wherever you're listening so you never miss an episode. Ready? Let's go!

Katie Lovitt: 1:06

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Nourished and Thriving show. I am so excited about today's episode. And if you aren't, you should be. I'm about to tell you why I have sitting here in a zoom room with me, Dr. Jill Umbrello, who is, um, my dentist and my family's dentist. And she is actually a fourth generation dentist. She also has four crazy kids. I like that you have the number four a lot. She says that they motivate her to learn more and be better, which I think is one of the best things about being a mom, right? Is we want to do better for our kids and inspire them and have them be inspired by us. And she's a huge Beyonce fan, which is on your short list of like most important things about you.

Jill Ombrello: 2:00

Well, I think it is important. And that is one of the most important things because I did pull up at a stoplight one time after work and I had Beyonce just windows down. I was dancing, changing my energy after work before I went home and a patient pulled up and saw me and I thought they were going to wreck their car. They were laughing so hard at me and I'm like, don't laugh at me. Roll your windows down. Join the dance party. But yeah, it's my jam. I love it. I love it. So thank you so much for taking time out of your day. Of course. Thank you. I'm a fan of the show and I'm just really excited to be here and hope I have something to add to the conversation.

Katie Lovitt: 2:35

Yes. Oh, don't hope you absolutely do. I'm so excited. I think that this is a conversation that not many people even know is a conversation or no needs to be a conversation whenever it comes to overall health, but got health too. And it's something I really wanted to dive in and learn a lot more about. And so I believe in. Efficiency. And so going to the experts and asking them what they've learned and all of that is always the best way to get at least first information right before like digging into rabbit holes. So super excited. Yeah, I totally agree. So awesome. So tell us, what do you do? Like, what, how is the dentistry that you practice different than like any other regular dentist that somebody might go to?

Jill Ombrello: 3:22

Yeah, for sure. So there's a couple of different terms that would describe the type of dentistry I, I practice and I am proud to practice. A biological dentist is kind of my favorite, a holistic dentist is another one, um, a non invasive early intervention are other ones, but basically we live in the most amazing of times. There is so much information out there and I, I love having a more holistic, less invasive, more natural approach to things. That being said, I also love my Western education and there is a time and a place for Western medicine. We're not in a third world country where we have to rely on the roots and the, I mean, sometimes I wish we were, but that's a whole other topic. But, um, and so I think what a biological dentist does and what we really focus on is root cause dentistry and making sure we recognize. Why there's a need for a filling. If there is disease or inflammation, why it's there rather than putting a bandaid on it and doing a filling or, or, um, uh, pulling a tooth, et cetera. Yes, we also do those things because we want to focus on eliminating and stabilizing disease, but we really want to dig into what the root causes. And I think there's another huge focus in biological dentistry, um, focusing on the material biocompatibility, which is just kind of a fancy way of saying, Hey, if I put something in your, in your body that is foreign, will your body accept it? Or if I put this in your body, even though we know it's a good material and it's okay, will your body reject it causing a cascade of symptoms that now we're trying to chase? and cure. So, um, exactly. You know what my grandfather practiced, um, you know, back in the sixties and the seventies and things were so different back then. I mean, the toxic load was quite different back then. Right. What, what the air that he was breathing and the water that he was drinking and his patients were drinking and the food was quite different than now in 2024. Even then they didn't realize that taking mercury amalgam fillings and rolling it in your hand without a glove, right? I mean, it just in your bare hand, what that could do neurologically and what that mercury would do to your body overall, which is why a lot of dentists that age were very similar to my grandfather and developed a hand tremor, right? So there's things that we're learning and, and the major. Focus of a biological dentist is how do we decrease that toxic load and how do we look for root causes, address those to reduce the overall toxic load. And what's been really exciting is I think this has become more of a conversation as people recognize that the mouth is kind of the, you know, the, the beginning of the body of systemic health. And not only what we put in our mouths, but the health of our mouths. And then we can also recognize, um. Early, you know, early symptoms of other diseases in your body when they come to the mouth first. So it's been exciting to see people feel very empowered about their oral health and very motivated to, um, to have a nice, healthy oral microbiome. And, and ultimately be our, we like to call them our healthy, boring patients. They come in and the oral microbiome is healthy. They're all hygiene is good. And, and we're not, you know, quote, quote, unquote, drilling and filling every time they come in. That's an ideal patient.

Katie Lovitt: 6:30

Yeah, absolutely. I like being that kind of patient. I know those are my favorite. Those are my favorites. The healthy, boring, gorgeous smile. Yes. So I love like you are just singing to my soul here whenever you're saying that you love conventional medicine for what it does and it has a place and actually reading your bio on your website. I love it. I didn't realize we both had heart conditions diagnosed in our twenties and had life saving interventions that are conventional Western medicine. And so I'm with you, like it absolutely has a place and it saves lives every single day. But is it the best approach for these more chronic conditions where you have multiple systems involved in, in all of that? I don't think so. And I think that's where, you know, your approach and my approach are really great. So,

Jill Ombrello: 7:21

and, and, you know, it's, it's interesting if, if a, if a patient comes in with a mouthful of cavities and yes, we can drill and fill those, but could we do some nutritional counseling? Could we figure out, Hey, is there a high frequency of processed foods contributing to that? Is their mouth breathing and the way that they breathe at night while they sleep is lowering the pH of their saliva causing these demineralizations. Yeah. What can we do rather than just slapping a bandaid on it? Um having that heart condition diagnosed in my early twenties was the Um was the most formative thing I would say that happened to me in my life. Um For a very long time I lived I mean I had a congenital birth defect So from the time I was born until the time I was 20 Um, I lived with the symptoms of that condition thinking that it was normal And and having little dizzy spells where I lost vision was not normal. It was common for me, but it wasn't normal so The fact that I meet so many patients who have defined their reality as being normal, um, has been really fun to maybe provide a different insight, while that may be common. While it may be common that your kid has these symptoms, or while it may be common that you have these symptoms, that's not normal, and blasting that and reframing They can accept a better reality has been is my favorite thing to do because ultimately people just thrive in the environment of thinking that they could be better or healthier. Um, and, and, and to do that through non invasive ways or holistic ways, just aligning their body with the way that they're supposed to work, not reinventing the wheel. The body is miraculous and beautiful and healing and all of the things with the proper ingredients. And so empowering people to feel that way about their bodies rather than shame or guilt or, you know, almost feeling like a victim, um, is, is something that I'm very proud of, um, that

Katie Lovitt: 9:05

we, that we work towards in my office. I love all of that so much. And the same is true for gut issues. Like, I think it's kind of the same. Like people don't really talk about mouth issues other than like, if they have to get a procedure done or something, but they're not, that's not a part of the dinner conversation, except maybe at your house and my house. And like the same is true for gut issues. Like people just think that what they're experiencing is normal because it's normal for them and it's all they've ever known. And so really helping them to. step back, zoom out, understand what that optimal function, how their bodies were designed and created to work and heal is really a cool perspective shift. I love it.

Jill Ombrello: 9:44

It is. And I think as, as a mom, um, you know, I, when I get in my mom's circles of friends and we're talking and we'll, what's, Summer camps or what, what is your kid doing? And we kind of talk to each other to see, are we having similar experiences? Can we learn from each other? I remember when my first, her, my first child, her name's Franny. I was at the playground. She's three years old and all the moms were talking about how their kids pooped once a week. And I was like, Oh, hold on, hold on a second. No, no, no, no, no. Like I understand everyone in this circle of, you know, five or six women are experiencing that, but like, it's common, but it's not normal. And then, you know, I don't know. I got invited to less play dates. I have to be honest. Cause I always just kind of had, I was like, Whoa, what do you mean? Okay. We're talking about poop. We're doing this. Yeah. Yeah. have a conversation. Yeah. So I just think there's so much misinformation out there. Um, For, for, for moms and it's, it's challenging because, um, I think as moms, we all just want the very best for our kids and we want them to be the healthiest versions of themselves. And I think that's beautiful, but I think there's also a lot of pressure on moms to want that for their children. And one thing that I'd like to shift the conversation and say, Hey, but we also want that for ourselves. We want our children to be healthy, but we want that for moms too. Like I want to be 120 years old and vibrant and on the floor playing with my great grandkids. And full of energy, like I, but I also want them to be healthy. And so looking out for ourselves is also something that, um, that we really talk

Katie Lovitt: 11:06

about in my office as well. Yeah, absolutely. I just did an episode on like the hot mess mom culture causing a hot mess, got issues. And it so does. And I think we're just as women so fast to carry a heavy burden and be dismissive of issues that maybe we're dealing with when. If you flipped that and you asked if my child were dealing with this, would I be approaching this in the same way? And we would all immediately say no, like, heck no. So, I've

Jill Ombrello: 11:35

definitely experienced that with, um, you know, even like, uh, mental talk. I have so many patients that are just so hard on themselves. So, um, my, I love all of my kids, right? Obviously it depends on the day. I love some more than others,

Katie Lovitt: 11:47

but

Jill Ombrello: 11:50

you know, my sweet little. My sweet little six year old Eloise is just the light, I mean, she's just the sweetest. And so sometimes when I get caught in my head and I'm like, ah, that wasn't good enough or I didn't do this, would I ever say those words outside to Eloise, to her? And of course I wouldn't. So why would I say that, say that to myself? So yes, this is outside the scope of dentistry, right? It's outside of what we're doing, but when we meet these patients who are looking for solutions to some chronic issues, sometimes, um, you know, the conversations go in this way. Why? Like, why do you think? think that you broke a tooth? Why do you think that you have all these systemic health issues? You're not a mental patient. I mean, we see some of those too, but most of these patients are just, are chasing symptoms and so confused as to where to start and how to be better that, you know what, as, as a biological dentist, here's one thing that we can do. We can get some more information and then empower you with that information to be very strategic and persistent. purposeful about next steps and very slowly, um, get better and better and better. And I think our patients respond to that, especially in, in the culture of so much information that moves very quickly.

Katie Lovitt: 12:54

Yeah, because we know that our thoughts and our beliefs drive our actions, which ultimately drive our results. So you have to start with the mindset and that's, I love it. Um, so tell me how you got into this field. Like were the three generations before you biological dentists or biologic dentists, or like what caused you to kind of go in this direction? I'm really curious. Yeah, this is a great one of

Jill Ombrello: 13:17

my favorite questions. Um, so growing up, we were always extremely healthy. We always had, we had smoothies every day and that was before kind of smoothies were a thing. So we always, uh, my parents, we really trended towards a very outdoor lifestyle. I had a very idyllic childhood where I rode my bike and I was home when the streetlights came on in our neighborhood and, um, you know, all the neighbors knew us. And so if we did something naughty, they would tell our parents, you know, it was just this kind of, you know, Cults of people raising villages, right. You know, raising, not actually a cult, that's the wrong word, but a village, you know, raising, raising children in a small neighborhood. So it was fantastic, but, um, it really came down to my heart surgery in my twenties that really projected, put me on this, on this path. Um, I did have a congenital birth defect that was fixed surgically incorrectly the first time. So I was in dental school and had an open heart surgery that was botched. And so I had a year where I was really very sick and the solutions I was given, um, from a very well known. Um, doctor who's, you know, number one in all the magazines, number one, D best doctor, all those things. Um, reputable doctor didn't, didn't, he wasn't listening to me when I said, here's what's happening. Here's how I feel. It was a very cookie cutter approach. And I got very, very angry about that. Um, I ended up having a second open heart surgery that resolved it. And I am very healthy. I've had. For beautiful Children, but I've had other health issues related to that. Um, you know, it's not very invasive procedure. And so rather than become very angry, um, I did for a while, don't get me wrong, but I turned that into just being very grateful for that experience because it's made me the type of provider that really listens to my patients. And as I started out in dental, um, practice about 20 years ago, you know, when a filling would fail or if a tooth would crack and, you know, I would, I would have to ask questions why, why, why it's not because I'm a bad dentist, there's something, there's a root cause there. So really, um, it stems from having a medical experience where I didn't feel like I was listened to. And I don't feel like I was, um, Uh, treated with respect or empowered with additional information. And quite honestly, I didn't have the skill set to equip myself with that information. That was before Facebook and before the internet and before a lot of this, not as an excuse, but I just wasn't equipped with that. So, um, it really has made the difference. made that a core value of mine to truly listen to the patient. Everyone is different and everybody has different priorities. Hey, if you have a cavity in your tooth, but you're also fighting, you know, you're also doing a parasite cleanse. We got to prioritize. We can't do everything at once. And, and so that's really created the core value within myself. And then just really looking to my patients To learn, to learn from them and to continue and, and to be a source of, Hey, I have some really niche information. I love dentistry. I love biological dentistry. So in my free time, that's what I'm reading about. Use me for this information that I can pass to you to empower, to make the decisions that are right for you and your family, and I think patients really appreciate the approach of I'm not a dictator and telling them, but just providing information that align with what their core values are. And, um, it's been fun because patients get healthy and they accept a new reality. And, and, um, what their health could look like. And then they send their other friends and they get healthy too. So what you do is build just a community of like minded people who want to help each other and who want to educate and empower. So it's just a really beautiful thing. Every day at work is, is a really nice thing surrounded by like minded people who are just eager to be the best versions of themselves. And so every day it just continues to feed that fire and feed that passion that, um, yes, there are some really sick people out there and there's some people that have been taken advantage of, or that are new to the path and don't know anything. They're eating their Cheetos and smoking their cigarette before they come in to the people that are much smarter than me when it comes to diet and nutrition and supplementation. So we get to see, have the privilege of treating all of those patients. So it just continues to feed that fire, the healthier people get and the more positively they respond to what we're offering.

Katie Lovitt: 17:06

I love it. I love it. And you guys, if y'all have never been to Dr. Jill's office, you are like a ray of sunshine in your office and you make everyone feel so special. And just everyone in your office is so kind and uplifting. And I've never really had a bad experience at a dentist, but I know a lot of people do. And so if you've ever had that like bad experience, or you hate going, like, Go, go see central dentist.

Jill Ombrello: 17:33

It is a happy place and we do one of our core values in our office is yes, it's fun. Like you're at the dentist and who, but we want to have fun, but you know, we do have days that we don't necessarily make the phone call at the exact right time or don't send the email that we should. But, um, another core value is just transparency. And I feel like in this day and age, people really respond to, um, Even having a difficult conversation of, Hey, you're right. We, we didn't exceed your expectation. We're really sorry. How can we make it better moving forward? And, and I think that that people just really appreciate that there's, there's no ego here that we're really just here to help. And sometimes we do a great job and I'm, thank you so much for saying that. I'm glad we've done a great job with you. And sometimes we do the best we can. And in those moments, we, we take feedback and we're eager to be better as well.

Katie Lovitt: 18:15

Right. I mean, I think we're all humans and graciousness is really great going both directions. I will

Jill Ombrello: 18:24

also say too, there's been one thing that's just been really exciting because I've been in practice for about 20 years. And, and, you know, of course things have, have changed over 20 years with the social economy and political, all of the things, but what's been really interesting over the last four or five years that I haven't seen previous to that is people's un, um, unwavering commitment to understand their own health and be in charge of their own health and find sources of authority about their health that they really trust. And that's not necessarily the doctor, you know, the doctor in the white coat used to be the authority. So if you went and saw my grandfather or even my dad, you know, if they have their white coat on, then You do what they say and you don't really question it, right? I mean, there's exceptions, but that's the way it is. And now I don't even own a white coat. I have a black coat because we're in this together. Here's all the information I have, and now we can discuss it together. And having patients that are their own advocates is super challenging and it forces me to be better every single day. But patients really appreciate that more team minded. Hey, I'm here to help support you. I'm here for you. How can I serve? And rather than just being kind of a dictator and say, well, you do this because this is because I know more than everybody, right? So that's been a really interesting shift in the last four to five years. And, and the most interesting part of it is, you know, People being their own advocates is great. They're making their own decisions. What's best for them and their family. Is that what's best for me or what I would do for my family sometimes, but sometimes not. And that's okay too. And so that mutual respect and understanding is just been so fun. And I see that commitment to being your own advocate, becoming stronger and stronger as I have the privilege of meeting new patients. And I hope that continues.

Katie Lovitt: 20:05

Absolutely. I agree. And I think people like that who are really invested in advocating for themselves tend to get the best results because they're really own up. They're not that victim mindset like you were talking about. They're really, you know, holding themselves accountable and responsible for their own health within reason, you know, understanding that sometimes things do happen, you know, that we can't control, but what can I control and what can I change and how can I do that? And I think Taking a minute and not very many people, healthcare providers do this because they don't have a minute a lot of the time, right? But taking a minute to really understand what is this client's goals and how can I meet them where they're at versus this is what I would do with my family or what even worse sitting there, you know, even in functional medicine, I see this where people sit there at their desk and prescribe this, you know, let's say it's an elimination diet or a super, super strict diet to follow. Well, it's so easy to tell somebody to do that, but like, are they going to do it? Is that really even helping somebody if they're not able to follow through because of where they're at?

Jill Ombrello: 21:10

Right. Right. And then, and then being okay with the fact that an elimination diet with family of six is not reasonable. Okay, great. Here's our next solution. Here's the next thing we could do. Yeah. You can still help. I love that.

Katie Lovitt: 21:23

Let's talk a little bit about, you mentioned it a minute ago, the oral microbiome. Tell me all the things, oral microbiome, how does it, I mean, obviously affect mouth dental health, right? But also gut health, you know, it's the gatekeeper, like you said, of where food first enters our body. It's so important in my work. I talk mostly about the other end of things, but we do incorporate the oral microbiome and all of that. So I'm super curious to hear your hot take on all of it.

Jill Ombrello: 21:55

Yeah, for sure. So I think, um, you know, with the oral microbiome, people sometimes forget that the first step of digestion is by putting the food in your mouth and then letting that saliva, uh, Start to digest it. It drives me crazy when my teenage sons like inhale their food, right? This was like, Oh, they just eat it. No, you have to chew your food to start it. And so the population, the oral microbiome is basically who lives in your mouth. Who's in there. There's good bacteria. There's bad bacteria. Um, things can be acidic. Things can be basic. And so, um, you know, what is that environment? What does that saliva look like? And as you swallow, we introduce that into our body. So there was a lot of studies that came out after COVID, which caused an uproar at dental offices that, you know, that bacteria, um, and periodontal disease or gum disease in your oral microbiome contributes to increased pulmonary infections. And so when people were very scared of COVID, they wanted to come get their teeth cleaned to eliminate that, to decrease the chances of having a more severe case of COVID. Um, we also know that the bacteria at a negative microbiome can, um, affect your heart health, um, your lung health. Like I said, there's also studies that show it can contribute to early all set Alzheimer's and contribute to low birth weight and pregnant women. So it's a pretty serious thing. So as we take that That concept of how important your oral microbiome is, these pharmaceutical companies now prey on that fear, right? Well, you know what you need? You need products to make it better. You need to put all these products in there. And so, um, There's a lot of products out there that actually negatively affect your oral microbiome. Some of these mouthwashes that have a lot of alcohol, um, or some of the blue dyes or red dye, you know, all of these things that make it look pretty in the bottle actually make your oral microbiome more acidic. And so the, I like to think about your teeth, bear with me, not a great example. I think I used this with your kiddo. Think about your tooth like a peanut M and M. We have the candy coated shell, the chocolate and the peanut, right? If we have demineralization of that candy coated shell, that's something that the body can, that's like the enamel of the tooth. The body can actually heal itself with the right ingredients. Once that demineralization gets into the chocolate of the tooth, it's a cavity and it needs to be restored. If it gets to the peanut. Okay. That's when we start hearing things like. Abscess, root canal extraction, et cetera. But more in that, in that, um, candy coated shell in the enamel, we can actually change the oral microbiome of the mouth and have it remineralize and heal it and prevent having to have a cavity filled. How great would that be? You come into the office and we evaluate, um, your microbiome through some of your habits. through what we see the wear of our teeth, of your teeth. We have an ITARO scan, which is a non radiation, um, picture. It's kind of a fancy camera, um, that shows it so we can look at patterns. If you're

Katie Lovitt: 24:38

out there, if you remember and watch the entire thing, because they're so fascinating, by

Jill Ombrello: 24:42

the way, she did that. Um, so, um, yes, absolutely. That, that is so important. So patients love the idea of, Oh, okay. If I use the right products, then I can take control of my oral microbiome. And so we talk a lot about that and the products are not fancy. If you think about what's in the outer layer of that tooth, it's enamel. It's made of hydroxyapatite. A lot of Western doctors really talk about, um, they really push fluoride and they think that the tooth will absorb the fluoride and make it stronger, but fluoride is actually not a component of the tooth. Um, and, and there's a lot of, there's a big lawsuit right now. Actually the EPA is suing, um, all the different counties to try to get fluoride taken out of the water because We're all over fluoridated, but that's a whole other topic. So, um, using that hydroxyapatite, which can be found in mineral based toothpaste, if we use that on a daily basis, when that candy coated shell gets weak because of the oral microbiome, it builds it back up and it populates that spit, that microbiome. to be healthy, to be basic. So we don't have that demineralization. The other part is how we breathe. If we breathe through our mouth versus breathing through our nose like we're supposed to, we can then have a more acidic saliva. That acidic saliva, acidic microbiome can create breakdown of the teeth. So that's how that's how it affects the mouth. If we now introduce that into our GI system, that's going to affect how our whole body digests food and how it absorbs food. Patients that have leaky gut have ulcers, all kinds, you know, gastric reflux, all types of GI issues. We see that bacteria in the mouth. as well as the bacteria in the oral microbiome in the mouth, that's not appropriate. We see how that transfers to the gut. So we have a lot of patients that'll, that'll come to us with, you know, that have done a lot of work on their gut health and they've done, you know, protocols or they've changed their diet. They don't anything. And they're just missing that last piece to the puzzle, which usually comes from the mouth, or we have the pillaging meeting patients. First and addressing the oral microbiome, but we're still seeing issues and then we have to go work on the gut. It's only when the, the microbiomes of the gut and the mouth are, are positive that they can live in harmony and both are healthy.

Katie Lovitt: 26:49

Absolutely. I love that. And it just goes back to Everything's connected. Our bodies are systems of systems. You can't look at any one part of the body in isolation and expect to get 100 percent results. You have to look at all the pieces of the puzzle. And I love that you're saying, you know, that mouth is a piece of the puzzle, you know,

Jill Ombrello: 27:08

Yeah, I will say too, cause people sometimes reach out about products and that's another thing I'm obsessed with. If you go to my website, central dentist. com, it says recommended products. You can click on that. It has all these mineral based toothpaste and you can actually click it and read all about it. If you like it, it adds it to your Amazon. shopping cart. So it's pretty easy to look through that, but also to be very thoughtful with it. Um, if you're looking for a specific toothpaste or, um, mouth rinses or those things, um, there's some really good, good ideas. I do change those quite often because sometimes a company sells out one of my favorite toothpaste companies just sold out to Procter and Gamble and they actually lowered the pH of the product and put all these additives in it. And so, hey, I can't recommend that product anymore for lower pH is more aesthetic for people who, yeah, it's more aesthetic. Thank you. Yeah. Sometimes I get too nerdy and it goes far. So yeah, if it lowers, if it lowers that, it makes it more acidic and more likely to break down, break down the teeth. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Katie Lovitt: 28:04

Big issue. Right. I'm really curious. Um, whenever you see the pH changes in the saliva, do you see a change in those digestive enzymes too, that are helping to break down those The carbohydrates mostly in the mouth.

Jill Ombrello: 28:19

Yes,

Katie Lovitt: 28:19

absolutely. So we

Jill Ombrello: 28:20

see that, um, we do, we recommend patients do pH strip testing, so you can get those on Amazon as well. And just test the pH of their saliva throughout the day and, and see when it trends more acidic or more basic and it's color coded. Um, there's also a test that you can do a salivary test where you spit into a little cup and it analyzes the microbiome of your mouth. which is ever changing, but, um, that absolutely coincides. I'm not running testing on, on gut health, but, um, yes, it coincides when we work with their functional providers. Um, that does go together. I'll also tell you when we see a lot of patients that have, um, underdeveloped lower jaws. And when their lower jaws are underdeveloped, it pushes their tongue back into their airway potentially, so they have oxygen disruption at night when they sleep. So if that means their oxygen isn't completely stable, um, when we see interruptions in that, we can also see major issues in their digestive enzymes and their insulin sensitivity because they're sleeping in a more sympathetic fight or flight mode, trying to normalize that oxygen. Um, so we see that from both, from both sides of that.

Katie Lovitt: 29:24

Yeah, that's so interesting. And I've shared on Instagram about my journey with that and how I was like, mind blown whenever we realized that that was happening. Because if anyone would ask me before we did the sleep study, I would have said, Oh yeah, I sleep great. Like I fall asleep within 15 minutes. I sleep through the night unless one of my kids wakes me up or my old dog, like. I wake up feeling fine in the morning. And again, it goes back to that conversation around what's normal for you versus what's actually optimal. Um, that was how I'd felt my whole life. Whenever I woke up, you know, it was normal. And so we did that sleep study and found, I remember how low my oxygen was dropping. It was like 85 or something like several times an hour. Uh,

Jill Ombrello: 30:06

and Yeah, it's pretty significant, but you, you know, you look at your personality and you're the type, your glass is half full and you're going to get up. And even if you don't feel completely rested, the kids will get breakfast and we'll go about our day, which is a fantastic part of your personality. And we love you for that. But also if we're truly honest with ourselves, you weren't getting restorative sleep where you were having proper oxidation all night long. And so your body wasn't necessarily resting and recovering from the beautiful life you lived during the day. It was compensating and kind of pushing through. So you were never taking advantage of that. the deeper levels of sleep. Um, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's true to have a lot of people.

Katie Lovitt: 30:43

Yeah. And it was funny. I was talking to the friend about it, um, who she's really interested. Like she's a great advocate for her own personal health, like one of those people. And she was like, well, that's so weird that you never noticed it before. Did you dream? Like, didn't you dream? And I was like, well, yeah, I did. I did not dream like I dream now. Like I have the most vivid dreams like all night long, but I remember when I wake up, like, it's crazy how much I dream now versus like before, like before I love that every once in a while I'd have a dream I'd remember. But again, that was what I thought was normal. Um, and I'm really excited because I know we had hypothesized if, so my heart issue for people who don't know is have complete heart block where my heart would randomly stop beating, which is. Not fantastic. If, if you want, not ideal, not ideal. Um, but I really have this. So it happened after my sister suddenly passed away is really whenever these symptoms started coming on. And so I just have this gut feeling, ha ha gut feeling about it being connected to trauma and like a mental emotional trauma there and fight or flight type of response. So I'm actually going to my, um, electrophysiologist in April. So I'm really curious. Um, you look at my pacemaker recordings, if there's been any change or reduction in the percentage of time I'm being paced or anything. So I'll report.

Jill Ombrello: 32:02

Yeah, I can't wait to hear that. And I do love, I just remember the first time I met you, um, when, when you were in my office and how just transparent and lovely and, um, factual you were and how much healing you had gone through to be able to talk about it. And I really applaud you for being so open about it because I think you're sharing your story will help other people. And even just knowing that. Hey, when, when you go something through something horrific, that doesn't even begin to sum it up more than horrific, what that can do to your body. And that's okay because you love so much. Right. And that's okay. And what you can do to recover and get better from that. I just think that's such an important message that in my circle, I don't hear that enough. And I just really, um, I mean, I just adored you from the first time I met you and you shared that story. It's really incredible.

Katie Lovitt: 32:47

Thank you. Yeah. And what you said about, you know, your tough time that you went through and using it for good, you know, and using it to grow and help others grow and help others be better. And I think it was spot on with my mission. Um, exactly. But really interesting with the sleep is what you were saying, the fight or flight, right? Where you're not getting good sleep. So let's, let me like walk through this chain of events here for a second. So, Lower jaw is undeveloped or underdeveloped. Not undeveloped. It's underdeveloped, which is pretty much a pretty chronic situation here in the U. S., right?

Jill Ombrello: 33:22

Yeah. And there's some really, um, brilliant doctors that are, um, you know, that are researching this every day and looking at it. And what they're finding is, is It's multifactorial. So it's, there's a genetic component, there's an environmental component. There is a dietary component, bottle fed versus breastfed. I mean, there are so many different things that can contribute to the underdevelopment of that lower jaw up until the onset of puberty, which is where it's really kind of locked in. That's where you are, um, trying to intervene in that, um, is, is key. Early intervention is key because you can use the natural pressures of the tongue and teeth to expand everything. Um, When we get that full jaw where the tongue can live, then you're able to take air in through your nose and filter, purify, humidify it, and you have a proper size airway, which is the tube that connects the outside world to the inside world. If patients or people take air in through their mouths, they force their tonsils and adenoids to filter that air. It's not their job. There are lymphatic organs. They can help if it gets the system gets overloaded, but it's not their job to filter everything. So I see so many patients that have enlarged tonsils and adenoids or have had repetitive surgeries. Tonsils aren't like fingers. Like you take a finger off, it's gone forever. Tonsils are tissue. So if you take out the, the enlarged tissue, if you don't fix the root cause or address the root cause, the tonsils can get big again. I just saw a little girl last month who's had her tonsils out six times, right? I mean, it's, it's horrible. And now we're going to address the root cause, which is her mouth breathing and change that. But when we take that air in through the mouth and force the tonsils and adenoids to filter it, and that's not their job when it gets to the lungs, the lungs, it's not ready for the body. So the lungs have an inflammatory response. That inflammatory response can be a stuffy nose that can be misdiagnosed or mislabeled as allergies or, um, something like that. And we can't breathe through our mouth or we can't breathe through our nose because it's stopped up. Well, now what, now how do we address it? Right. But when we have, um, a lot of times with adults that are, that are concrete in that they will clench or grind their teeth or they'll, you know, they wake up with headaches in the morning because they've had this drop in oxygen. Um, so, um, Um, they're clenching and grinding their teeth, not because they're stressed, but because they're bringing that lower jaw forward to bring the tongue, which is attached the jaw forward to keep it out of the airway. And so every time that happens, if there's a drop in oxygen, our survival instinct to breathe is stronger than anything else. That it's out there. And so your body will do whatever it takes. So at night when you're sleeping, you go from a parasympathetic, which is a rest and digest and repair mode into a cortisol induced sympathetic fight or flight. Ah, I need more air. And that transition from parasympathetic to sympathetic, which driven by that stress hormone, can make your body more inflamed. More acidic. Um, and, and again, those deeper levels of sleep, restorative sleep, which is where we need detoxing sleep where the brain detoxes, where the liver detoxes is so important that we take advantage of that during the night, especially with this, the life that we live during the day, there's more, we're exposed to more toxins. It's harder to get clean water. It's harder to get clean food. We also, there's so much information for all the reasons we've talked about. We absolutely want to need to get into that parasympathetic rest and digest mode. And, and a lot of people have those disturbances. And so they just never rest. And if your cortisol is going all night, your adrenals get tired. If you're needing to burn. Carbohydrates for quick energy, um, rather than burning that protein and fat at night, which is long, sustainable energy. If we're burning those carbs, your insulin kind of gives up on you. They're like, what do you want from me? I digested your food all day long. Should I send more of the food all day? Cause we're going to need it at night. Should we crave sugar and salt all day? Cause we know we need this energy at night. And then the insulin just says. Whatever. I'm insensitive to this whole situation. So I'm done. So patients who have, you know, really tried to lose weight or really their diets are in line and they're not seeing the scale go in the way that they'd like, or their body composition change. This sleep component is a really big part of it because their insulin is just kind of giving them, even though they're doing everything right during the day at night, their body's just trying to keep that oxygen. So it's, it's having to compensate.

Katie Lovitt: 37:27

I think that's such good information. And then taking it one step further from what you were saying about you're not sleeping well at night, you're going into fight or flight. Um, well, guess where the vagus nerve, every listener is housed. It's in the same part of your brain where the fight or flight response is housed. So the vagus nerve is Um, and it's maybe my favorite thing about the human body whenever it comes to gut health. It's pretty cool. It goes from your brain and it goes down into your abdomen and it, um, has all these intersection points with your heart, with your lungs, with your digestive tract. And whenever you're talking about gut health specifically, it's what's controlling gut motility. So if you're struggling with recurring SIBO, that is part of the issue is that that vagus nerve is not working properly. If you're dealing with constipation or diarrhea. That vagus nerve is not working properly is part of the issue. Um, and it can lead to all kinds of microbiome issues also. So you're seeing how it can come from multiple places. And that's why you can't just take one single supplement or do a, you know, certain elimination diet and fix all these issues. They're way more complex than that. And there's a lot more moving parts. Um, but so if you're not sleeping well at night, because your airway isn't, you know, open at night, It can then really lead to gut issues with motility stuff too. So, and you're creating a more acidic mouth environment, which Dr. Jill just said, you know, impacts our microbiome as well. Um, so really fascinating. It is fascinating. And sometimes I wish there

Jill Ombrello: 39:01

was a magic pill. Don't you? Sometimes you get to sit here. Take this one and everything will be good. But you know, one thing that I, that I think a biological dentist does, and I pride myself in doing is, okay, where can we start to get the biggest bang for our effort? Like, what can we attack first to really, um, do that? And a lot of times it is diet, making sure we're eating a low inflammatory, you know, low inflammatory foods, cutting down on processed foods. Sometimes it's as simple as that. Sometimes it is behavior modifications, putting the phone down, not watching TV right before bed, right? Like, um, you know, finding joy in your life, listening to Beyonce on the way home from work, if that's what you need to do, right. And so just finding actionable steps that help move the gauge and the, and, and the direction of health, I think is what people are looking for, because it is so very complicated. And, and what I like to say with patients too, as you know, especially yes, your cranial nerve 10 and the way you breathe and the way you sleep and the way you think, and the way you, all of these things as complex as our body is, and as multifactorial as it is, the body is equally. complicated in the way that it can heal itself and the way that it can get you back where you're supposed to. We're not actually reinventing the wheel. We're just putting the body in a place to function the way it's supposed to. And once it functions the way it's supposed to, hopefully you won't need intervention anymore. Your body will just be healthy and happy and you can pay attention to those things. So patients under, or people understanding this isn't like This isn't pharmaceuticals. This isn't something that someone invented in a lab or brought out of thin air. This is just restoring factory settings, getting you back to where it was. And, and, and sometimes thinking about it that way, I, in my experience, I've found that patients are a little less overwhelmed with the multitude of, of areas that we could focus on to get that ideal health.

Katie Lovitt: 40:47

Yeah, I think so too. I think that's a really great, great perspective. And, you know, I think too, going back to the magic pill, um, I think, you know, Growth through struggles and through trials is so powerful because if all you did was take a pill, you know, to set everything right again, you would miss out on learning so many things about what your body does need to thrive and get set back on a course towards healing and stay there that you'd be having to take pills all the time, right? That's basically how medicine is in a nutshell. That's so true.

Jill Ombrello: 41:21

I'm reading a book right now that talks about like your mind is just way stronger, um, than you think it is. So I have three teenagers right now, so I really need, I need a strong mind, right? So I've started cryotherapy and doing, you know, um, cold plunges because yes, it's very cold and who really likes cold water? No, but I mean, if you do great, but not me. But realizing that. With the difficulty of the cold water, how strong my mind is. And I don't have to have a sympathetic reaction. I can be the, the anti force against the force of the cold water. So I think that that's what you just said is so brilliant because, um, yes, through, through these trials, we do become stronger and we realize how amazing our bodies are and how they can heal themselves. And that's really empowering. Cause you don't need, you don't need anybody for that. You just need yourself. And that's really exciting.

Katie Lovitt: 42:10

Wow, it is. You're not having to find the next expert to tell you what to do, you know, for yourself, you know.

Jill Ombrello: 42:16

And we don't want our patients to be dependent on us. We want them to use us for the information that they need and then, and then move on to the next stage that gets them better health. And, and I think that philosophy, I know you and I share that philosophy, but I think that philosophy is, is new or, or unique. When. When you're talking about healthcare providers and patients really resonate with, oh, you don't want me to come every two months for the rest of my life. No, I mean, you can come by and say hi, but like, I don't, I don't want to have to treat you. I don't want to continue

Katie Lovitt: 42:45

having problems for sure. Absolutely. Oh, I love that so much. Um, so if somebody were to start out on this path of like, Hey, I'm really interested in this. And this is, you know, something new and different that I haven't ever thought about before. Where would you have them start? Like, what would you have them do first? Well,

Jill Ombrello: 43:04

Yeah. So I think, um, you know, really just being honest and sitting down and not having your glass half full. Right. And just saying, okay, reality starts. How do I really feel age? Isn't necessarily a number. It's energy. So what is my energy? Like, um, what is my digestion? Like, and really looking at it. For through that lens and creating a list of the current state of affairs, right? Kind of rating yourself. I like to do that. Sit down and rate myself on a scale of one to 10. I'm not to be harsh with myself, but just to have a check in, um, when we have patients that come in with various levels of guilt or shame or confusion about their teeth or, or even fear or anxiety. We like to sit down and really have that conversation with them. So when, if, if the mouth is where you'd like to start, um, I would welcome people, um, patients in my practice, um, central dentist. And while I have a lot of solutions and a lot of information, I'm not the gatekeeper. I don't have the end all end of everything, but what I'm really proud of is that the team of like minded providers that I've had the absolute privilege of meeting and working with. So. When we don't have the solution here in my office, Hey, here's a great person to go work with, or here's someone who can, um, who can give you more insight onto, onto what you're looking for. But, um, I would, I would, and I'm absolutely love welcoming new patients. So they're always welcome here. Um, if, if that's not it, I would, you know, social media is fantastic in a lot of ways, but in a lot of ways it can be overwhelming. I'd find somebody. Um, on Instagram to follow who, who is like minded and you like the content, you like how they're living their life, right? Um, there's someone on Instagram who I just adore and she lives in a, she lives in a Puerto Rican, um, like jungle and she homeschools her kids and they're barefooted all the time. I love that, but like, I'm not in, I'm not doing that. I'm like driving carpool in Dallas and wearing shoes. Right. And, and no judge, I think that's amazing. She's doing it, but it doesn't work for me. So finding someone who kind of resonates with. Uh, with what you would like to do and what works with your family in an effort to get more information, but then also in the simplest and the hardest thing is just be grateful. Take moments for gratitude to thank your body for being so strong and to thank yourself for, you know, listening to fantastic podcasts like you have in an effort to get more information to learn more. And so really just coming from a position of gratitude, I think is the absolute best thing that people can do, um, to start off.

Katie Lovitt: 45:25

I love it. It all goes back to the mindset and the heartset, right? Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time. You're, you know, just perspective sharing your laughs and your love with people. It's just so apparent how much you love people. You love doing what you do. You love inspiring and empowering other people. So I really appreciate you being here. Thank you.

Jill Ombrello: 45:50

You are, um, you are, you're one of those people that I would follow. I love, I mean, you're a brilliant mother. You're so smart. Your children are fantastic. I just, um, I have so much respect for you. So thank you so much for, for inviting me on and giving me an opportunity for us to chat. I think the first time I met you, I said, we should just go to lunch and be best friends. So this is, this is another step in my path to becoming best friends. Yeah. This is

Katie Lovitt: 46:14

how we

Jill Ombrello: 46:15

come friends, right? Exactly. So thank you so much for this opportunity. It sincerely means so much.

Katie Lovitt: 46:20

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. And we'll talk with you guys next week. Thank you.

46:26

Thank you so much for listening to the entire episode. I hope you are feeling inspired and empowered to take bold action towards your health goals. If you enjoy what you heard, don't forget to follow my show so you never miss a new episode. And it would mean the world to me, if you left me a review, so others know what to expect from my show. Last, get in touch. Let me know what bold action you're taking. Let me know how you're inspired. Follow me on Instagram@the_healthygut_dietitian. I've put a link in my show notes for you, so you can simply click and follow. Come say hi, I respond to all my messages and I can't wait to get in touch.