Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
19 - Checklists are Sexy: Lead Her with Clarity, One Step at a Time
New relationships don’t need a contract; they need direction. We dig into the messy, exciting space after a few dates where interest is real, logistics are heavy, and you’re wondering how to move from casual to committed without killing the spark. As divorced dads, we know the stakes are higher—kids, calendars, and hard-won lessons—so we break down a practical way to lead with clarity while keeping things warm and inviting.
We start by flipping the usual script: before negotiating with someone else, navigate yourself. How attracted are you, how much do you enjoy her, and what role could she play in your future? Once you have those answers, identify the next most important step for you—exclusive dating, an overnight, more weekly time—and present it as an invitation, not a request. That single shift keeps the romance alive, adds mystery, and shows discipline. We also tackle the noisy world of dating tactics and explain why principles beat hacks: clarify, invite, observe, refine. Your desires are valid; if they’re met with consistent no’s, it’s feedback to evaluate fit, not a cue to push harder.
We dive into listening as a masculine advantage. When she processes out loud, resist fixing. Stay present, invite more, then reflect back small, accurate pieces of clarity so she can see herself more clearly. This builds trust, lowers pressure, and gives you better data to guide the pace. Along the way we share language for making linear feel romantic, how to protect your frame without turning rigid, and why carrying the “full checklist” privately while offering one step at a time is both effective and attractive.
If you’re a dad reentering dating, this conversation is your roadmap to leading with steadiness, handling timelines without games, and building a connection that can actually fit your life. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with the next “step” you’re planning to invite—what’s on your list?
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the show where we get real about love, about fatherhood, and finding your footing, getting back into the dating world. My name is Jude Sandval. I'm the founder of The Divorced Dadvocate, and my co-host, as always, Dallas Bluth, the founder of Black Box Dating. How are you doing, Dallas? Doing awesome, Jude. How's your morning going? The morning is going well for sure. Like I said, we have no technical challenges starting here so far, so we'll knock on wood with that and be very excited to get through a full episode with no technical glitches or in anything. So it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_02:Let's just hope the Amazon servers stay up and running.
SPEAKER_00:I was just gonna say that's after this whole Amazon thing. And I know you're an IT guy, so you probably have a little more just are a little more relaxed about it than maybe those of us who are like dependent upon oh my god, my tech is down, what do I do? So anyway. First world problems, right? Let's see. We are going to be talking today about navigating the beginning of a relationship. Kind of we'll we'll set the stage. Then you know it. We've got a lot more variables going into uh into this now. We've also got a lot more experience going into uh into things now. So so when we are younger, it seems like there's not real it there doesn't seem to be a timeline, if you will, of well, what is the process? How do we get into it? It do we need to do we really need to talk to this? It seems it seems almost to be a little bit more carefree, if you, if you will. I hesitate to say smoother because it might have felt smoother because it was carefree, and you it really did like there wasn't as much on the line, and you didn't have as many responsibilities and have to negotiate so many different things. So so it it it I guess maybe potentially it was a little bit more more carefree and and and easier. So so I so now what I want to talk about is in the in the beginning of negotiating that. First, what is a what is a timeline for going through this process? You see somebody, you've maybe talked to them a little bit, been out on some dates with them, and you're thinking, okay, well, maybe I'm taking this to the next level, maybe I'm not. How do we start to negotiate that? Feel like we're not rushing things too much, or that we're not going too slow. Like it seems very, very tricky.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It is really tricky because it never really plays out the same way twice. Two people come to the table, they're gonna have different interest levels, they're gonna have different requirements, they're gonna have different levels of care freeness depending on whether or not they have children, whether or not they've been married before, you know, how much they've been just sort of like, you know, school of hard knocks, you know, in the dating scene. People are going to have very different agendas and you know, criteria before they become committed and involved with somebody. So I think the first thing we have to look at is before we look at engaging with the other person, before we look at a commitment with another person, we need to get really good at being honest with ourselves of how interested we are in this other woman. Whether she's dating other men or not, whether we're dating other women or not, is is kind of they're separate issues and they're beside the point. The first question we have to ask is am I interested in getting into a committed relationship? I'm just assuming when we say beginning a relationship, we're talking about a committed relationship. We're not seeing other people. Um I assume that's our definition of this term.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So I'm I'm talking about that that period between you first met, you've been on some dates, you are have some interest, and now you're kind of negotiating that path of moving it to the next level, to where you want to have a committed relationship.
SPEAKER_02:So I don't I don't focus too much on negotiating with the other person. I focus mainly on getting clarity with myself. And this is what I talk with my clients about. How interested are you in this woman? How attracted, how physically attracted are you to this woman? How much do you enjoy this woman's company? How much do you want this woman involved in your potential future? You know, well, you're going to have a future in your life, how much do you potentially want this woman involved in that future? And those are questions that I feel that a man needs to decide for himself on his own. If we're talking with a woman and negotiating with her at the same time as trying to figure out our own interest level, we sort of co-mingle their interests and our interests. And that gets to be very kind of muddy. There's sort of a lot of push and pull that goes into it. I should be able to say for myself, I'm really into this woman. I would definitely like this to go somewhere with her. And be able to say that with clarity for myself and with complete separation from her and say, I don't know if she's interested in going there with me yet. But the fact that I have clarity on my end, that provides actually a lot of power and in some senses, negotiating clarity in interacting with her. I'm just curious, how does that, how does that resonate with you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, so when I say negotiating this process, it doesn't necessarily mean like a new like you're negotiating with somebody to like, okay, well, here's the terms of what we're what we're doing. Although that's gonna be my that's did I that is actually my next my next topic.
SPEAKER_02:My being too naive and uh and taking you too literally here on the word negotiation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're taking me literally like I'm negotiating with like we're gonna come with a contract and and all that. I mean negotiating this process. And and I I like what you said, which is like the first negotiate, the first part that you're negotiating through is how you feel about her. And is this somebody that you that you see spending time with? Is this somebody that you like? How attracted are you? Are you enjoying like all of that stuff? Being real and honest with with your yourself about that. Or, or because this is what happens, especially maybe if we're just a dad getting back into it and and starting again, is that we're we're trying to fill a void, maybe, right? And we're not being real honest with ourselves about oh, okay. Uh, and we've talked in past episodes about doing the work before we even get to this point as to knowing what you want and where you're at, and it's okay wherever that is. Maybe you just want somebody to to have a recreational relationship with that is just just not committed. And that's fine too, but just know going in that that is what you want. So then the next thing we're gonna talk about that that I have on the on my list, but is having that talk, right? Like not the not the not necessarily the the what are we talking, but more of the how are we going to do this talk. I I feel because as as a dad and as a single dad, and maybe she has kids, or that there are a lot more val variables that that go into it. So it's kind of having that that that talk, which you know, I've I I have had my personally mixed reactions uh around this. And I've done it both ways where I haven't really been clear and had the the talk of how we're gonna negotiate this and kind of just let things flow, if you will, like uh we're talking about in the beginning of just kind of carefree and see how this happens. And I've done it the other way where I've been very, very intentional and clear and talked like wanted to talk about this and and maybe maybe to the maybe, just maybe, to the extent where it was like a negotiation, we're talking about a contract, right? Which I can understand where it becomes a complete turnoff, right? So, so how do you how do you mitigate having this this how do we go about doing this talk? Still make it exciting and sexy and not a total turn-off of logistics and we gotta do this, because there is just some of that that's built in that you gotta figure out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And it's and it is really, really tricky to do. So I'm gonna say, I'm I'm for for the sake of clarifying terms, I'm not gonna say that I'm negotiating with myself. I'm gonna say that I'm trying to navigate myself. So I'm trying to get clarity on my path, and I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out where it is, what I'm feeling with this woman, where I want to go, what am I ready for. I'm trying to get clarity with myself. We'll call that navigating myself is getting clarity with myself. When now, when it comes to talking with the woman about how we're going to become involved, I think the first thing that helps a lot is we is that we tell them where we're coming from on our end. When we bring that clarity of, look, I'm really interested in you. I I like you a lot. I would like to just be seeing you. And the minute you say that, you're providing a lot of clarity and the and starting the conversations, because these will be plural over time, starting the conversations out with that type of reassurance for her of where you're coming from in your heart and in your mind. That's going to change the entire tone of the conversation. You're essentially providing her. Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And can I stop you there real quick? Because that seems to be also a spot where that's different for different people. So talking about the expectations is that three dates? Is that three months? When do you feel feel comfortable? And how do you have that confidence? Because they're going to have just a built-in expectation, right? A woman's and and every woman's built-in expectation is going to be different. And you may or may not, you have your own idea of how that, how, how that looks, what that process might hopefully you do, right? When you say you're navigating yourself, you kind of have an idea that it's going to be a this period of time, maybe this may, however, you're going to determine it. And then I'm either going to start feeling comfortable. I do feel comfortable and move towards that. How do you how do you have that conversation when you're when you're going through that, especially if you you start to feel like, oh, maybe she's pushing it a little too too fast and and you want to pull back, or maybe you're pushing it too fast and she's not reacting how how you how you would would like it, would expect, or would you like to her to react. Or you're not getting you're not getting the reaction that you want, right? That's what it comes down to.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. There's a lot there. So the as far as a timeline goes going into it, uh, you might have the way that you normally go about it, but the the question is, what's your what's the state of you inside of yourself? How ready are you or not? Because that timeline will quickly shift depending on how interested or not interested you are in a woman. And I think the thing to present to her is not, I like to take this slow, I like to, well, is not to necessarily have a plan of action that you're used to that you're rolling out. That that feels like, okay, I've you've got your way of doing it, and she has her way of doing it, and you're trying to kind of mesh these two plans together. I like to bring to it, here's what I'm feeling, here's my level of readiness. And and that's that that's the state that I'm in. And that isn't a plan. That's just the facts of where I am today. Now, if the woman is ahead of me and she, you know, she's ready for a commitment and I'm not, I'm stating those facts. I'm stating where it is. Yes, I'm interested in you, but I'm not quite ready to be committed. And then let the chips fall where they may as a result of you sharing that with her. Because if it's been three months and she's way into you and you're not quite sure yet, she might she might say, All right, I'm I'm out. That's not gonna work. That doesn't mean that we change the the challenge of navigating ourselves to the point of clarity in ourselves individually, and then sharing that clarity with her. The same thing goes. Let's say I'm ready to be exclusive with her after two months or three months, and I don't necessarily feel like she's all that in it. I don't want to keep giving her my time, my attention, my creativity in coming up with dates, you know, my energetic involvement and you know, my emotional, what would you say, my emotional stake in this, if I don't feel like it's being reciprocated. I, you know, the the popular dating advice out there is the man never brings up a commitment. You always wait for the woman to do it. Yeah, I I can hear that. If you're coming from a needy place of attachment, if you're bringing it up within like, you know, a week or two and you've only had a couple of dates, guys, you know, that that's still, you know, that's what what is that? That's like the that's the lighter fluid on the charcoal that's on fire, you know, when that's happening in those first couple of weeks. It's not the coals that are actually on fire. When you can tell that the coals are actually on fire and and you're ready and you feel like she's still kind of maybe in, maybe not, ask yourself how much do you want to keep, how much, how much of your resources, your time, your energy, your creativity, and your and your emotional bandwidth, how much do you want to keep spending in in this scaffolding of the early stages of the relationship to find out whether or not she's going to meet you in the middle. The bottom line is you know in your own heart when you're ready, and you know in your own heart when you're not ready. Getting to that point can be more difficult than a lot of guys realize. And then being truthful about it and transparent with the woman, that can be especially challenging for certain guys.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I agree with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope I wholeheartedly agree with you about the the not bringing up the status or the the relationship status or where where are we at thing? Because as as the the man in the relationship, I feel like we really it's incumbent upon us to lead and have a create a direction. Now that's that's collaborative as you get into it and it takes communication, but I feel like we should be defining that. And like like you said, so if if they bring it up, then what you just just described is have that conversation about okay, well, this is how I'm feeling, this is where I'm at. And then maybe, like you said, depending on how you feel about that person, maybe that maybe it speeds up. Maybe you're what you're used to speeds up, which which takes me into kind of our our next thing, which is these old patterns, right? That that that come up versus like new rules. And and you pointed out a rule which is well, you're not supposed to to bring up the relationship thing, et cetera. Like when I was 22, I didn't I didn't know any of that, right? And so there's you know, there's there's these all all these new rules that we hear. And if you listen to to so much so much of the stuff on the internet now that's the you you could just absolutely get lost in all these, I gotta be doing this, I can't respond then, and do that. Like, it's just in insane. But go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:So those are tactics, and you know, every tactic has its place, and every tactic has several places you should not use it. And TikTok has reduced the world into a bunch of life hacks, which are just tactics. That's not strategy, that's not that's not going to take you anywhere very far. You have to have a more fundamental basis than that. So it gets very disorienting, and and and all of them are bad advice at a certain moment. They they all are. You have to find out what the guiding principle is below. Let me let me tell you what I think is a good approach and strategy to this. Is you mentioned sort of having a discussion with a woman, laying out what it's going to look like. I find that it's more effective if we realize that that is, and I'm I'm sure you agree with this, it's an ongoing discussion. It begins on even potentially date one or two of what we're looking for, but we're just sharing little pieces of it. And then at a certain point, we talk about well, I'd love to spend the night together. And the reason you're bringing up this way is because we're not in the early 20s carefree days when she's right down the hallway in the dorm, you know, and you're you're hiding under the covers with three other people in the room. You know, it's it's just not like that anymore. And suddenly, you know, babysitters are involved, and when kids are around, and you have to you have to like schedule this thing, put it on the calendar. Well, bringing up the fact that you're ready for that, that's that's just a step into the relationship. And I think the best strategy to go about this when there's so many logistics in a single dad's life and he's out there dating, it's to recognize what is the next most important piece to fall into place with this woman. Is it that we're not seeing anyone else? Is it that we we, you know, maybe we've slept together, but we haven't spent the night together. And for me, I'm realizing spending the night together with this woman will take us to a different place. You know, you know, um she's invited me to, you know, have have a play date with her daughter or her son or, you know, whatever it is. And and I'm, you know, and how am I feeling about that? I feel that all of these are individual steps, and they're not, we don't have to come up with them all at once. It's it's not like some big Dr. Frankenstein switch that we like go from off to on and the lightning bolt comes into the room and suddenly it's a relationship. Ha ha, you know, it's alive. Like, no. Like these are steps that we're taking forward. And I think if we find, and again, this is navigating your own emotional landscape inside. If I can find the next important thing to me in myself, and then when I feel like it's important to share that, I'm stepping into the relationship rather than an early 20-year-old making a bunch of assumptions and jumping all the way in in a carefree way, thinking it's all just gonna work out.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Well, and so when you say, as usual, Dallas, it sounds so easy and so small like so smooth, like, oh yeah, what's the next thing? And then, you know, I'm just picturing you and it just rolls off your tongue, and then it just you know happens beautifully. But for you know, us novices and ones that aren't as as as good as you in talking about that, what is that how does that how does that sound when in and not make it sound like un unromantic or or because it because here's the other thing is so guy as a guy, as as guys, we're really kind of like linear. Okay, so it's a so in my mind this is becoming a checklist, right? So you're talking and you're talking very smoothly, and how it how it becomes becomes very, but I'm reorganizing it in my head as a checklist. And I know a lot of guys uh are are doing that. How do I come off as not it being a checklist when I talk about, oh, okay, well, we're gonna be communicating by tax more often, and then maybe we can um spend more than one day a week together, and then maybe then we can we can have a a date where we go out of town. Like, like how do I how does like come off not sounding like that? Okay, make it more romantic.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so let's dispel a myth here, real quick. Linear is romantic. Linear is sexy. It is, it is okay, and okay, so let me let me further clarify. Linear is sexy and romantic to women when done the right way. Okay, and check click and checklists are really good. That's part of being linear, it's part of being organized, it's part of having a plan, it's part of being able to lead. That's a good thing. What is not sexy is giving the woman the full checklist. What is tech what is sexy is to give her your next check box and then you hold inside of yourself the full checklist. That creates mystery, that creates anticipation. You're taking on the burden of the responsibility of keeping all this in order, and she and then you're just presenting to her, so would you like to go out of town for the first time? You know, how can we make this happen with my kids and your kids? You know, how how do we do this? And you're presenting one checkbox. And the thing is, it's the next most important item on your list for you as a man. You're presenting to her that gift of the next most important thing, and you're carrying in your own masculine linear responsibility, you're carrying the rest of that list in your backpack. She doesn't need to worry about it. She doesn't need to see it. So that's that's one element. And and just to finish off that thought, carrying that list inside of you takes discipline. It takes effort. That is a burden for us to have. That discipline of carrying it and keeping it to yourself and only giving her essentially like the next rows on the list, you know, the next item that's a gift, and you carrying the rest yourself takes work and effort. That is what that is what's sexy about it to a woman. Whenever a man exercises discipline, that is where he builds his masculinity. I what I say to my clients is masculinity, masculinity is forged in discipline. Whenever you're having to hold and retain this long list and have this plan for the future, but you're not sharing the whole thing with her, you're just sharing with her a part of it, that takes work and discipline, and that's going to turn her on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so I I lost my thought.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I want to answer the second part of your question if I can.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Okay. So the second part is how do you do this in conversation and you know, and make it sound sexy. So, first of all, breaking breaking the list down into individual items and presenting them one at a time, that's going to be much more sexy. You know, it's it's the little, you know, a woman would say it's the little things that count. Giving them one item on the list, that's a little thing, even if it is substantial, because it's not the whole package. Now, the the the way that I like to approach this with a woman, because every woman that you meet is coming from a very different history. And particularly, if I'm coming to this as a single dad and I have a history that didn't go well in the first attempt, I want to do this differently. When I when I tell that to a woman and I said, Look, I don't entirely know what this looks like with you, but we get to do this however we want. We get to write our own game plan, we get to write our own rule book, and I want to write one with you from scratch. That is music to a woman's ear.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really good.
SPEAKER_02:And because and that is honestly the truth. And and because the two of you don't have to follow any rules that, you know, anything from our parents to TikTok has told us these are rules you're supposed to follow. If you want to get married, gosh darn it, you're gonna get married in a whole different way than you did the first time. And it's gonna be according to your rules. And if she's been married before, she doesn't want to get married the way she did. And when you tell her, I want to build something from scratch, I want to, I want to make our own rules up from the ground up on how we want this to be. How do we want it to be in cohabitation? How do we want it to be in involving kids? How do we want it to be in the bedroom? How do we want it to be in our communication style? How do we want to be with our finances? What whatever the stress points are for both of you, telling telling that woman that I want to live by our own custom-built rule book from the ground up, how does that sound to you? That's a very romantic way to approach the topic.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And it's a call to adventure, which is something that is attractive to both men and women, right? That's probably one of the main things that that we share is just human beings as a is a desire and a call to to adventure. Women want to be an adventure, men are always that's just their their their thing. And then I remember the the other thing I was that that I forgot was that add some mystery. Not only the adventure part of designing that, but by not revealing that entire checklist and allowing it to come a little bit of time. There, that mystery then keeps some attention and sexiness, and and if you can do it right, then you know you you get through the checklist, which is what you what you what you're wanting, right? Or or hoping, desiring, let's say that's a better word. Desiring, but you're able to do it in a in a way, in a sense that you're bringing her along, you're creating mystery, building foundation, like you, you're like you're talking so so I just every time you talk about stuff, like I keep translating. So that the next thing when you're talking about that, which is which was uh the sense of adventure, and we can do it this way. I'm thinking about building a house, right? So like I'm automatically going, well, you're building a foundation, and then you're framing it, and then you're you're doing all the the the rest of it, but it could be but you know, so again, that that linear mindset is what I'm hearing you say is take the linear mindset. It's okay to be linear, it's actually a good thing because the result for her is that she she she knows whether it's consciously or subconsciously that you're disciplined, that you're you're taking steps, that you're thinking through that stuff, but and and and that you've got it in control, but you're doing it in a way that is is inviting her, bringing her alongside of you with it, calling her in into to doing it and co-collaborating it. So you're kind of doing this adventure of building all this house with all of that in a in a creative and a in a dynamic and a in a different way that is attractive for her, right? Because for you and I, it might be cool, let's just get the tool belts and let's go hammer, right? But for her, it's a lot, a lot different of how you're you're you're you know, and the relationship obviously is the house, right? You're building that, right? So that's the the analogy. So it's it's different. I'll tell you, Dallas, it's it's it's a little bit hard for me and I'm I think maybe some of the other guys to like to have to do that translation. And I think we delved into this a little bit last week, right? Is to do that translating in it's almost like you're translating what your checklist and you're building the house and find it, and then you have to like put it in a language of how you're and and then you can't mansplain it to her because then it comes off wrong, right? Like you gotta do it in a way, so then it's like, holy shit, I'm exhausted.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it it is exhausting, and if we look at it as translating, we're still looking at it from our point of view. I have this thing that I want to communicate. How do I translate this so it'll communicate over? Instead, if we look at Well, we don't speak their language. Well, how do we do it a different way? Okay, that's true that we don't speak their language, but we can if if we pause and actually care about the woman, we can look and see the effect of it on them. So if, you know, and we don't you can do this in person, but really I think when you have a good enough imagination and you and you can pull yourself out of your first person point of view, and you can say, How is this going woman going to feel if I bring this checklist of like five or eight things that I think are really important for this relationship? Is she going to feel like she's having a fun adventure, or is she going to feel kind of weighed down and turned off? I think most guys, when we step back and ask which one would, you know, what would which way would she react? Most guys are going to be able to identify, yeah, that's going to turn her off. That's going to weigh her down. This so this is just a matter not of me translating what I'm saying. It's me pausing before I take action and asking myself, what is the effect of what I'm doing going to have on the woman? And and I know that by the way that she responds to what I'm doing. This is this is all about this is all about the experience I give the woman and how does she respond as a result. So When I look at my checklist and I think, well, if I just give her the next most important item on the list for me and I share that with her, she's gonna like that because she's gonna feel Dallas is invested, Dallas is interested, you know, he he's got some skin in the game, he's taking this somewhere and he's he's going somewhere with it. She's going to enjoy that. And she knows that there's more going on inside of my head because as a woman, she has 10 times more things going on in her head, you know, than than we do as guys going on in our head. Um the other thing I want to point out. One more thing I want to point out. When we bring one item from the checklist to the table, that is that doesn't fill up the whole plate. That is putting, you know, one scoop of mashed potatoes on the plate. There's plenty of room on that plate for her to put her items on the t on that plate as well. If we put four, five, six items on the plate, there's no more room for her to put anything on. I mean, she she can try, but then we've got way too much to process at once. I've shared the most important thing with her. And the next most important thing is to say thank you. I'm glad that sounds good to you. You told me you're not ready yet, or you told me you've been wishing for the same thing. Whatever her response is, doesn't matter. And then we say, what's most important to you? What where would you like to take this next? What's the next thing you've been hoping to do that we haven't done yet? What's the next, what, what's the next, what's the next step forward on this adventure? I I think the analogy of building a house together is great. As guys, we're there constructing it all the time. We've got the tool belt on, and we know we need to go take off the tool belt, get in the car, go pick her up, bring her to the job site, and go, you know what? I wasn't sure if you wanted bay windows in the living room or a sliding glass door. Which one you and you take her to that one particular crucial moment where you've prepared everything. That's the discipline, that's the work, and you're like, which way would you like to go with this? And you just bring her, you know, not in work clothes to work on the dang house with you. You bring her to the job site when there's a critical decision to be made. And she gets to feel involved in the process, but it's an enjoyable one. You know, you're driving by the site rather than having to be there every day watching the crew do the work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So maybe it's it's less of I feel like it's translating in my mind, right? Like not translating to her what I'm what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling, translating in my mind, like what you just described, in in having to stop. And and so maybe translating is not the the best description of it, but having to tune into what the experience is, because my experience is totally different. So where I'm coming from and my is totally different. So tuning into what that what her experience potentially will be, and then working from a from a standpoint of of that to where that it's gonna then everything that you just said, it's going to attract her in that it's gonna make her uh bring her into the adventures, it's gonna be enjoyable, like it's gonna be, it's gonna elicit the feelings that you want her to have in in going about this and having it just be layered one one step at a time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so what what you're doing there, maybe a way of looking at it, is you're repackaging your delivery.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:But but rather than just shooting it out, you know, like automatically, you know, slap a slap a mail label on it and send it out the door. You're pausing, you're asking yourself, what would be the most effective delivery? How should I package this? You know, what cadence, what pacing should I do with? And most importantly, what's the most important thing here for me to communicate? Don't try to communicate everything. Communicate the most important thing to you because honestly, as a caring woman, the most important thing to you is going to be part of the most important things to her. So yeah, think about think about pausing and repackaging your delivery of your checklist.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. That's yeah, that so that describes it much better than than trend the translators happening for us, and then we're taking the time to to to to approach it in the right manner because because the way I approach like you would be completely different. It would just be Dallas, go pick up the two by fours, let's get them, we got this to do, and and like that's it, right? And that's not gonna work for a woman.
SPEAKER_02:And the reason is I respond to that positively. I respond in a way that I enjoy, and I respond in a way that you enjoy. Giving those same instructions to a woman, a woman, women tend to respond differently. And what we're really after is the favorable response. We want the woman smiling. We want the woman saying yes to our invitations, we want the woman stepping into the adventure that we want to lead them on. So it's it's really a matter of realizing that men and women respond differently to different forms of delivery. And as men, we we have to make an effort to become aware of what women respond to and then deliver things in a way so that we get the response that we want. And it takes it takes an extra step, an extra translation in our mind to think, oh, well, how will they respond to it? But once, but once you start observing it and you start seeing it, it's wonderful. I mean, it's you know, to see a woman respond in the ways that we always wanted them to and to realize I don't have to change who I am. I don't have to throw out my checklist. No, my checklist is what she wants. I just have to deliver it in a way that will maximize the effectiveness and the responsiveness of her for both of our benefits.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so what happens if you do it right, you translate it, you do it really well, but the response is that maybe she doesn't really know what she's feeling, or she doesn't know what she wants, or hasn't done some of what we talk about, what we need to do up front, and then you're kind of like, Oh, okay, how do you how do you mitigate that? Because it that that happens a lot, and I would say oftentimes women haven't quite like refined, haven't done the checklist, right? They're they're not doing a checklist like we are in our mind of delineation. Yes. Okay, so like what did we do then?
SPEAKER_02:So, all right. So we're gonna go back to the delivery. The delivery is I'm sharing with her the next item on my checklist that is the most important to me. I am not, however, making requests based on that item. It's a very subtle but important distinction. I'm sharing with her what's important to me. I'm not asking her to now take care of the thing that's most important to me. I'm inviting her to go on that weekend away with us. I'm not saying, well, will you please take a weekend away from me because I don't get to see you enough. The effect of the first one is lifting because it's an invitation. The effect of the second one is burdening because I'm making a request and she knows that I'm going to be unhappy or you know, down or depressed, or she's gonna have to make up for it or something if she says no. So we have to be sure that when we deliver it, that we're basically just we're we're being vulnerable in the sense that we're sharing what's important to us, and then we just watch and see what she does with that. So if we're presenting it that way and she's not sure what she's doing, give her time. And that takes discipline.
SPEAKER_00:And that's and that's feedback, right? So it's not it's not failure, it's not necessarily that you did it wrong, or maybe you know, it's just that that you're getting the feedback of okay, either she's not ready, she hasn't thought about it. What if it is that she doesn't have a well-defined idea and it's it's maybe a no or I'm not sure, or do you move into a conversation around like, well, so share with me what you think or how you feel about that, or what is it that that's in your mind, or you just let it rest and see if okay, try another, you know, try another invitation at at some point. Uh so so the question is do you keep making invitations to you until you determine that she's not going to move in in the direction, or do you have a conversation about, okay, hey, I've you know, it and and you know, I'm not doing it right right now, right? I'm not even saying it right. Like, this is the direct, I'm not translating. It's like I I I'm serious, like I struggle with this. I really need to take the time to like think about how I'm gonna do it because my gut instinct is like, okay, so I've said three times, uh, what like can we go out of town together? And it's never happened. I'd really like us to be spending more time. Like, that's the automatic thing that happens in my head. So, but do you have that conversation in a good way, or do you just kind of say, okay, well, she's not?
SPEAKER_02:So I try as I don't try to avoid conversations. That's gonna come off wrong. I should say I I rarely find conscious intellectual conversations taking things where I want to go energetically with a woman. When I engage in conversations that are conscious with a woman about, well, can you tell me why not? Or, you know, how much time do you need, or what, you know, can you explain more? And we can use all the best conversational techniques from every relationship, you know, paradigm out there. And I'm sorry, but most of them, if we're discussing it, we're we're in our heads. And a woman up in our head is not where we want a woman to be, period, point blank. If I invite a woman to go on a weekend getaway with me, and and the response I get is not yes, it's something other than yes. Okay, that was feedback, like you said. That is giving me information. I gave her information in the invitation, she gave me invitation, she gave me information in her response. I now need to go back to navigating the internal terrain of myself and ask myself, what is that information and feedback that she gave me? How does that change my own my own situation inside? Because the question is, how much is this woman responding the way that I'm looking for response in a woman? I come back to that question. That's a much more important question for me to sit with and for me to sort out how I feel about. Rather than me engaging her in conversation, and let's be honest, most of the time we're engaging in conversation, our real motivation is to get her to say yes. Like that, honestly, most of the conversation is to try to change her mind. If we're being honest, if we simply accept it and we go back to navigating ourselves, we go, okay, she doesn't seem all that interested in doing a sleepover anytime soon. How am I, how much do I like that on my end? How much do I really want to get into a conversation about how much do I really want to, you know, continue a commitment with a woman that doesn't seem that interested? She could, she could have said, I really want to, I just don't know how that's going to work logistically. Notice that she said yes to the invitation, but now she's asking me, how can we make this happen? And she's not sure. Another woman's like, I'm not really sure about that. That that is that is not a yes to my invitation. And I have to ask myself, is that the experience? I am I with the right woman? Am I involved with the right woman? Before I go talking with her about her response, I need to talk with myself about her response.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Is there a simple formula that you could give us guys for because so it again, when you say it, it all makes perfect sense. Like, and I guess, guys, the the the answer is hire Dallas so that you can go and you can you can bounce this stuff off, be part of the community, you can get better at it, right? Because because clearly he is his is is very, very good at it, because it sounds so so easy. Um so that's the number one answer. But if they can't get involved and and and and want to re-listen to this episode over and over, is there like a like a like a simple equation that I could that I can put in my mind and I could be like, okay, Jude, checklist is, you know, stop and then do your translation and then think creatively and then talk. Like, is there something that that you've got for for you know the stunted guys like me?
SPEAKER_02:Stunted guys like you. The fact that you're asked the fact that you're asking the question means you are far from stunted. It means you're doing it right. The fact that you've gone from your clear methodology into one where you're allowing some confusion, that means that you're looking to shift your perspective into a more effective delivery. Dude, that's not stunted, that's advanced. That that is like brown belt level. Like that's it. It's advancing.
SPEAKER_00:It's thinking, it's stunted skills. All right, we'll put it that way. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I'm I'm just gonna say this because we should say it more often. If you're looking for the formula, the formula is like and subscribe to the podcast. Because, guys, this is a deep well, and we're never done with it. If you haven't liked and subscribed, please stop. Please pause and do that right now. So are there so here's the thing. Yes, there are fundamental principles, and the principles are not that hard to explain. Oh, there it it it's, you know, are you gonna ever get them all in one list? Ah, that's gonna be tough. But the principles aren't that aren't really that that hard to come by. What I keep talking about is I'm like I'm saying, I'm navigating myself rather than trying to negotiate with her in a conversation. Notice that's a theme as I keep coming back to myself, I find the most important item, I share it with her, and then I'm taking a response home to myself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So you and that's the navigation is is uh and and so this that helps right there. So because what I can do is I can translate that into a business philosophy, which is if you're not getting the outcome you want, then you got to work backwards and figure out a better, like a better way to go. So so if I'm navigating myself, I'm not if I'm not getting the response that that's that that I'm desiring, right? Then then I gotta navigate myself and think about, okay, well, how did I show up? Did I not translate properly? Am I giving too many items on the checklist? And then and then it really takes some reflection of, well, what did you do and and how did you do it, and thinking about a better way to do it, and then and then trying again in a different way, right?
SPEAKER_02:So let me so let me, I I know you're using the word better way. I'm just gonna the word I use is did was I effective the way I wanted to be. Did I have the effect that I wanted to? And and I asked myself, could I have been more effective? It's not right or wrong because the effect that I want to have is going to be different for each man. There's gonna be similarities, of course, but it's going to be different for each man. And the way a woman wants to be effective on her end is going to be different for each woman. I have to find the most effective masculine version of Dallas that I can in order for me to have the most blossoming relationship and the most fun adventure with a woman that I can. I'm always asking myself, am I being effective? When I when I look at better or worse, right and wrong, that for me is a paradigm for self-judgment, self-criticism, and it knocks me down. And then I got to climb back up that dang ladder again. No. I'm asking myself, am I being effective that I want, you know, the way I want to be? And if I'm not, ask myself, well, what would be more effective? What would cause the response that I'm looking for with this woman? But honestly, you said it with me and the two by fours with the world around me. What causes the response that I want to have? Notice though that I am, I am taking on 100% of the responsibility on myself to show up as effectively as I can. I don't blame the world. I don't blame other people, and I definitely don't blame the woman or even discuss it with her what it is that I'm not doing. I think, I think at a certain okay, so I'm saying that like you never have a conversation. Obviously, you do. I personally find sort of like, you know, who brings up the topic of being in a relationship. I think it's best to let the woman, for the most part, bring up the conversation that she wants to have. Now I can see all the listeners rolling. We are howling on the other end of the dog.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, nobody ever rings the doorbell, and so let's have an upset.
SPEAKER_02:I thought he was responding to the primal energy of a man wanting to be effective. And he's given us the howl of the moon that this is what the beast inside of every man wants to have. I'm just gonna put it that way.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, if it were as easy as how dogs made it, it would just life would be terrific, but yeah, it's not, right?
SPEAKER_02:When the howl threw me off, we got into such a primal place.
SPEAKER_00:So so so so I I I appreciate that. The are you being effective? And if you're not, how do you do that? And and really what it it seems to come down to to for me is that it's just trial and error that you're gonna you're gonna keep trying you're gonna keep trying, and then if you're if you're not being effective and not getting the outcome, and then you you you try again. Now, I I guess what for for me, and I know that maybe a lot of guys, especially if you're just getting that that's very worrisome, right? Like, again, are you screwing up and are you like what you kind of get you get paralyzed by thinking about it and and analyzing it. And how do you how do you avoid that? Because if you don't get if you don't get the response, then and and I then you internalize it, and then you get in your head like, hey, well man, then it becomes a like a train wreck, right?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so so what okay, so what we're delivering, we're not doing that for a response. That would be a nice guy approach, okay?
SPEAKER_00:Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Notice that I'm saying I have a checklist inside of me that's my checklist. I'm finding the next most important item on my checklist. That is genuine. That is me. That's not what I think the next thing that she wants is. That would be a nice guy approach. I'm asking myself, I gosh darn it, I want to fall asleep with this woman all night and have breakfast with her in the morning. That is the most important thing for me stepping into this relationship together. That's the thing that I need. That's a me thing, that's a Dallas thing. I'm gonna take that one item on the checklist and I'm gonna ask myself, okay, what's the most effective delivery of this to her? And when you're in that situation, I understand that we can worry about it. First of all, one, you boil it down to one thing that's important to you. Anybody can handle one thing. And then you look at it, use your imagination and ask yours, and and in your imagination, imagine how would she respond to this if I if I present it this way or if I present it that way? One of the principles of this is always it should be an invitation and not a request. That's part of the instruction manual. When you present things as a man, present them as invitations, not requests. If you're going to make a request, label it that. Can I make a request here? Can we always brush our teeth before we go to bed? Because it just I like it. And you know, and it's a simple thing, but label it as a request. Don't be like, you know, we should really brush our teeth before we go our teeth before we go to bed. No, like it should be. Can I make a request here? And and that that calls it out for what it is. You're making the request as opposed to right and wrong. Sorry, I went a little bit off the weed, uh, you know, into the into the into the weeds there. But it is okay to make requests, call them out, keep them simple. Looks like you are.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that's that's that's that's good to keep in mind that you're that you're keeping your frame of where you want. You're not eliminating your checklist, and you're not trying to like move things in different ways to you know to to try to make her happy to get the you know, like you said, that's a that's a nice guy tactic, giving something in order to get something in in in return. You want to avoid that. That is codependent, that leads you down a path of uh unhealthy relational dynamic, absolutely positively, you don't want to do that. But what my my my point, my question was is if you if you're if you're not and and you did you you laid it out clearly, if you're not getting the reaction and it's not moving where you want, then you're either gonna continue to try different ways in which to to do that, right? Or are you not hearing me?
SPEAKER_02:Now I hear you. Yeah. Sorry, I missed the last about eight seconds of you talking. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So so you don't want to be like giving to get. That's that's codependency, that's an unhealthy relationship. But if you're if you've got your check like checklist, you've got one, and you know that's the one that you're working on, but you're you're not getting you're not getting the response that that you're you're thinking or that you desire, then you're you might be trying different things and getting the feedback, but that's that's all I'm saying is you're you're looking for the feedback, you might be trying, maybe your your approach to it was wrong. Maybe you didn't invite, right? As opposed to to request. So you you make a change, and then if you're if you feel like you've exhausted all possibilities and you're not getting to that next part in the checklist, then you have a decision to make, like you said earlier, which is well, it doesn't seem like this is is moving in a in a direction that's is going to be what I need, right? What what I want because you're the one that's leading this. Yes. Is that fair? Is that fair to sum up kind of what you're saying?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that sounds that sounds good and accurate to me. When you want something in a relationship, if the next most important thing is for me to see this woman at least twice a week, because frequency is important to me, if that's if that's the next most important thing to in the relationship, as a man, let me just say this very clearly to every man listening. That is a hundred percent valid. And there are definitely women out there that will give you what you're looking for. When you present what it is that you want to her, really, the only thing you need to be careful of is that you're presenting it as a positive thing, an attractive thing. It's it's you know, it's something that you want and you're positively embracing it, and you're inviting her to experience it with you. And and you're not making a request that she does it. That's what's going to give you the that's what's going to deliver that with the best sugar coating that you can get. It's going to go down the easiest on her end. But understand that the desire that you have, it is legitimate to you. And if she is not saying yes to that, okay, let's let's just repeat that back. She's not saying yes to the legitimate desires that you have. Is that the right woman for you to be with? This shouldn't turn into a huge game of tactics and multiple questions and everything. Stand true to yourself. This is something that I want. It's good, it's healthy, it's whatever it is. I'm built to desire this. And this woman is is not saying yes to it. Am I dating the right woman? It it's really as simple as that. You know, I this this I was uh some sometime a while back, I was I was in this dating situation, and I was dating a woman that was very feminine. And that meant that, you know, it's very not checklist, very not structured. You know, she would be flowing and she would say something, and and I would get there and it would all be amorphous, but it was in a beautiful, attractive way. And, you know, I eventually, you know, I was talking to one of my you know older mentors, and I, you know, I was I was talking with him about it, and then I and then I finally said, you know what? You know, I'm you know what? I should focus on navigating myself because there's no way that I can ever navigate her. You're never gonna be able to navigate a woman. And you know what? She doesn't really want us to navigate her. What she wants is for us to be masters of navigating ourselves as men. And we can do that. And when we're engaged, when we're engaging with a woman, if I focus on navigating myself, I don't have to worry so much about navigating her.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the the visual I've I've heard used for that, which is you're kind of a boat on the sea, right? You're you're you're navigating yourself, your ship, you know where you're going, you know what you're doing, you're in control, but the waves and the weather and everything else is her going on around you, but you're still steady, you still have your rudder, you're like you, you know your vessel and you know how to get where you want to go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And and this might sound paradoxical, but you want to invite those waves. You don't want to show up to the ocean on your boat trying to tell the ocean to calm down. After you share, after you share what's definitely not effective. Yeah. After you share what's important to you, which again, you going first as a man, you're being vulnerable. You're making her feel safe because you're going first. After you've done that, invite her to put what she wants on the plate. I know I'm totally mixing metaphors here, but just go with it, guys.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, we're off in ship now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Invite her to share with you what's most important to her. Invite her to bring any conversations that she wants to the table. But realize that when she's bringing that conversation to the table, it's very different than how we did it. We brought we're bringing the conversation to the table because we already know what we want and where we're trying to go. And honestly, that conversation, a lot of the times, no matter how we want to say it is, it's actually trying to get what we want. It's trying to convince and change someone's mind. That's a lot of it. When a lot of times, though, women, when they're bringing conversations to the table, they're not really that straight and linear in their mind about what they want. They're bringing it to the table to kind of like just spread the cards face up and oh, can we talk about this? But really, what she's saying is, can you help me get this out so it can be more clear to me? Those are waves, guys. That's the ocean splashing over the side because she's gonna say weird things that might hurt our little egos, they might cause us to doubt, they might c might sound like, oh, she's not that interested. Gentlemen, she's she's just unloading, she's just she's just getting it out of herself because she can't create the clarity in herself. We can. The fact that we have these checklists and we can create this clarity, that is the masculine gift that we bring to the table. Let her talk about a minute.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, let's let's talk about that for a minute. I hadn't anticipated talking about that, and we're really we're going long now again, but I I I feel that's a really important one because that's where it gets to the complete difference in thinking. We've got a a checklist, we probably have a plan A, B, C through Z as guys and and women most often, especially if they're very feminine, don't, right? And and so what you just described, I think is very frustrating to guys a lot of the time. If you do ask or you do, so how do you then how do you sort through that with her in a way that is like allows her to open up and talk about and and not just talk about but refine? Because you're you're almost, and I'm not saying this in a derogatory manner, you're you're you're you're almost providing a a therapy. Session in helping her to get in touch with her feelings and what she wants so that she can hopefully join you in the direction that you want to go, right? And that's not to that's just kind of the the the way that it works, which is another thing that is really frustrating and challenging, right? Because I'm saying, Dallas, we're moving rocks in your you're you're saying, Jude, you're you're moving rocks in the backyard tomorrow, and I'm showing up with my gloves and my work boots and you know ready to go because I know and I don't like I don't have to think about it. And you don't have to, I don't have to show up and you don't have to massage me into how to do that and everything. Like, how do we how do we handle that then when it's like I don't know?
SPEAKER_02:It's it's it's not that complicated, believe it or not. Well, I should say the principles are not that complicated. Remembering the principles and applying them in the moment, that is infinitely challenging because the situations always change. But here's the principle the principle is number one, shut up and listen. Stop talking, stop trying to tell her what you think and listen. The reason you want to listen is because she is she needs to get it out. If you're talking, you change the flow of the conversation, and now she has to take in again and it's just building up and bottling up inside of her. Shut up, listen, and let her share it, and then encourage her to share more and say, I want to hear more. I what tell me more about where this is coming from. Is you know, is there more for you to share? You know, I'm you know, and if you say thank you, if you say, I'm loving that you're sharing all this, I love that you're getting all this out, you're you're essentially validating her action and you're telling her, you're doing exactly what I want in this young relationship that's getting started. You're sharing your feelings with me. You're giving me all your tons of rough drafts and brainstorming notes. I love it. As a man, thank you for sharing this. Please dump it all out here on the table. That's step one is to encourage her, don't interrupt her and encourage her to dump it all out. That in itself is going to cause her to feel a lot cleaner and unburdened inside on her own. That's just that's just feminine emotional regulation right there. They need to talk and get it out and and they need somebody to listen to it. And a man's ears are different to them than a woman's ears. We get into that in some other episode. We can talk about that. But having a man listen to her is going to be fundamentally different than all the other women in her life. Once she has dumped all that out, all that out on the table, again, as a guy, we start to sort it out. We're gonna start shooting our thoughts at her. And, you know, the the the old trope, you know, the old term for this is trying to fix her problems. Do not try to fix her problems, do not try to add anything to what's on the table. It's all her. And and that is really tough for a guy to do. Sit on your hands, take a breath, lean back. You are still supposed to be listening mostly. And then your gift as a man is clarity. Let me say that again. Your gift as a man by yourself, navigating yourself is you're finding clarity, you're bringing clarity to her with this one item, and you're inviting her. That's clarity. She loves it. Well, she's dumping all this stuff from her emotional insides out on the table. We have the same gift that we did before, the gift of clarity. But the clarity here isn't to tell her what we think we should do. The clarity is for her to see herself. It's like imagine you've got one of those little compact mirrors, you know, that they used to have, you know, that fold down, you know, that ladies powder their nose with in the black and white movies from the 50s. Imagine you've got a little mirror like that, and you know, it's down on the table with all the things that she shared, and you notice something. Again, noticing. This is you know, the terms notice, being curious. You notice something about what she says, and you know, well, it sounds to me actually like this is kind of important to you. Is that, am I hearing that right? Notice I'm not contributing what I think. I'm merely reflecting back to her a little piece, a little piece of clarity. That's what she needs from her man. And again, if you're in an early stage of a relationship, she's trying you out to see if you're her man. Can you reflect back little pieces of clarity? And then she's the one that connects the dots. Okay. And you find other little pieces of clarity and you let her connect the dots. If you connect the dots for her, that's like doing this is gonna sound really pejorative. That's gonna like that's like doing somebody else's homework for them or letting them cheat you off a test. They have to do it themselves. Everybody has to walk through it themselves, but you can just provide little glimpse of clarity along the way, and she will feel like you know, you're the best man in the world because you're giving her your gift.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, a little glimpse of clarity, but then also that's a lot of very valuable information for you to take back, then to then look at you know, whatever that that item is that's that that you're moving toward, and then make make an adjustment.
SPEAKER_02:And here's and here's the other thing. During this process, when when a man learns how to do this, and this is a learned skill, when a man learns how to do this, the woman, again, the woman is usually a lot of the time the one bringing the conversation to the table. She's giving this big emotional dump. We're not reacting to it, we're listening, and then we're reflecting back little pieces of clarity that we're suggesting might make sense. When we're doing all of that, guess what? We're not focused on ourselves for once. We are in service to her. What that does that most men don't realize because they haven't experienced it, is that actually that is a huge pressure relief valve inside of us as a man. When I can focus on her, listen, receive, reflect back to her own clarity. Boy, I can't even remember this thing I've been wanting so intensely for the last three weeks. I just can't even remember because I'm not in my own head worried about my own checklist. I'm actually paying attention to the woman that I'm involved with. And it has a regulating effect on me because I'm being selfless in this moment, because I am literally at her service. And when I do that as a man, that relieves me of all of the pressure of well, what I don't even remember what I brought to the table and whether she said yes or no. I don't remember. And suddenly when she's sharing these things and I've gone into really, I'm listening and it's about her, all kinds of new desires suddenly start to stir up inside of me, new opportunities, new interests, new desires that she had. I didn't know any of these were there. And unless I switch into full listening mode and I'm reflecting back with her, unless I do that, I'm only working off the information inside of my own head and my own heart. Those are the moments when she brings the wave comes crashing over the side of the boat. That's that is the gift of all of that feminine energy giving us all this new information that might even change what I desire inside of me.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And that cool, that back and forth is a relationship.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Wow, we covered a lot, my friends. This is I I think I'm gonna actually have to go back and re-listen to this myself to like or listen to the or read this transcript because we covered way more than my two and a half pages of notes that that I have for us to start out. But as usual, Dallas, tremendous, tremendous insight. You are just unbelievable. Let the guys know how they can get in touch. Talk again a little bit about how they can get involved in your in your community. I don't remember what you call the community, the community as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh, so go to blackboxdating.com. That's the website, the men's coaching program. That's how you can get involved. We have weekly office hours that are virtual on Wednesday evenings. Uh, last Friday or Saturday of the month, I do a live in the field, which is usually here in Denver. That's where we guys get together in person. We're doing activities. There's nothing that replaces the in-person flesh and blood to really complete the messaging, practice getting into your body. Certain things just can't be communicated over Zoom. They just can't. Yeah, so blackboxdating.com. Guys, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please do like and subscribe to it. By the time this episode comes out, we will already have had our monthly QA with Jude's Quorum of Men. But as we're recording this, it's going to be tomorrow. Really looking forward to that. Jude, can you tell guys how they can get a part of your community?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, check out the divorcedadvocate.com, and there's resources for you wherever you're at in your divorce. So, Dallas, thank you so much. It was another phenomenal, phenomenal episode, and my head is swimming as usual. You make me want to go out there, figure stuff out, learn all this. It's it's just great. You're uh you're a blessing to the to the men out there and to relationships. So appreciate you. We'll talk next week. All right, talk next week, dude.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
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