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Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
26 - Single Mom Tests: Scheduling, the Ex, and Other Relationship Killers
The Brady Bunch made blending look easy; real life demands better tools. We dive straight into the third rail of post-divorce dating: should single dads date single moms, and how do you do it without drowning in scheduling chaos, ex drama, and mismatched parenting styles?
We start with time, because chemistry means little if you can’t meet. You’ll hear simple scripts to express desire as a positive invitation—not a demand—and how to read the difference between “I want to” and “I will.” We unpack why calendars are romantic for busy parents, how to spot patterns when availability never improves, and when to choose recreational dating over a strained “serious” track. If you’ve ever wondered how many tries to give a faltering plan, we lay out a clear, humane filter.
Then we confront the ex factor. The issue isn’t his presence; it’s her boundaries. Learn how to show up with grounded masculine support without slipping into white-knighting. We share language that inspires change by modeling strength in your own life, so you can celebrate her wins rather than carry her load. You’ll also get a practical way to distinguish solvable friction from chronic chaos that will consume your time and energy.
Finally, we tackle the silent dealbreaker: parenting style. Forget abstract debates. Use concrete scenarios to invite real answers and test for a two-way street of curiosity and respect. We discuss why mutual interest in each other’s parenting approach predicts a healthier blend than raw attraction ever could—and how to know when to introduce kids based on responsiveness, not fantasy. Throughout, we return to one essential question: are you turned on by her responsiveness to your leadership, or only by her appeal?
If you’re a single dad building a life you love, this conversation gives you the playbook to protect your bandwidth, date with intention, and choose partners who meet you in the middle. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick rating and comment to help more dads find the show.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce. If you're listening to this, you have probably traversed lawyers and survived, hopefully, survived the asset split, and maybe are now trying to figure out your Saturday nights. And that is what we are here to help you with. My name is Jude Sandoval. I am the founder of The Divorced Dadvocate. And my co-host is Dallas Bluth, the founder of Black Box Dating. How are you doing, Dallas? Doing great, Jude.
SPEAKER_01:Happy to be in December and wrapping up the year strong.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. It is it is the time of year. For me, it's the most exciting, fun time of the year. It's also cuffing season, right? So I think there's a lot of activity out there. Do you notice that with do you believe in that whole cuffing season thing? Like the I actually don't know what what this term is. Cuffing? No. So the cuffing season is when you like link up with somebody through the doldrums of winter. And and like it's it happens in late fall, like late fall, beginning of winter, so that you kind of have somebody. So they call it cuffing season. And it seems to be, at least in my estimation, I've noticed I noticed a lot more activity kind of in the dating scene, dating app stuff during this this time of year. So I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there is definitely phenomena. There's the summer fling season, and then there is the I don't want to be alone for the holidays phenomenon that comes in. I've just never heard the term cuffing. Yeah, it's it's definitely there, and people do kind of hunker down for the winter, want to have somebody to stay, stay, stay warm with. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, with that that we totally digressed from what we're gonna talk about. But so I have affectionately named this, maybe affectionately or not so affectionately. I don't know, depending, I guess, from your from your lens that you're gonna be looking at this today. This pot this episode called Smashing the Brady Bunch Fantasy. And what we're gonna get into, all right, is the third rail of conversations, which I I always appreciate about you because and and about us in general and this and on this podcast, right? We're not afraid to get into get into the difficult topics and talk about some stuff because it this is stuff that's really important. And this is stuff like oftentimes it's stuff that I think of like, oh man, I wish somebody had told me this when I first started dating after divorce, right? And so so smashing the Brady Bunch fantasy is whether or not you should date a single mom as a single dad, as a divorced single dad, right? And this is man, like this is the third rail. The the conventional societal thing is oh, yeah, date a single mom, right? She gets it, she understands the schedule, she understands kids, right? So that's kind of what we we hear all the time. Single single moms are super super, it's my superpower, like all this kind of stuff that's like shot out there, which let's just dispel that first off. I'm gonna say it is being a single parent is not a freaking superpower, right? Okay, so and and I know all the dads listening to this are going, amen, brother, right? Like, come on, dude. This whole single parent superpower, single mom is bull crap, right? So it's it's very challenging, but that's that's also why we're talking today about this, because on paper, yeah, maybe this makes it sounds good, right? But we're gonna throw out the politically correct handbook and we're gonna dive into some specific stuff because in reality, there's a lot more that that goes into this when you're dating um a single a single mom. And so just you know, right off the bat, give me your first reaction to like if you see on a dating profile, quote unquote, my kids are my world, right? Like that one makes me crazy. I'm like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Well, okay, so that one, yeah. Um when I see that on a dating app, first of all, if I see that the woman is a single mom, the the first question that pops up into my mind is how what percentage of the time does she have her kids? Because that's really what decides it. A mom that has her kids 100% of the time, you know, a lot of times they don't have a lot of extra income to pay for babysitters. And you know, so where is that time for us to meet as adults and you know, create create that container, you know, that space, that that that that little, that tiny little window for the two of us to get to know each other as adults. Um, so that's the first thing I look for on the on the dating profile. Now, when a woman says, My kids are my world, I'm thinking, good. I'm I'm I'm I'm glad you think that, because as a parent, obviously, they have to come first, you know, along with yourself, they come first. I I expect anytime I'm you know going on a date with a single mom, I expect the kids to be the first priority. I mean, for me, it it it's obvious, but a lot of times, I it's sad to say, but I've met moms that well, in my opinion, they don't really behave that way. They're I I feel like, oh, my kid's fine, you know, but then they they show up and I'm like, I think you should be home with your kid right now. Like, I think you're hanging out with me a little too much and not enough with them. I mean, it's my own personal point of view.
SPEAKER_00:A red flag, right? Yeah, no, that's definitely if you're abdicating your responsibility. I would say abdicating the responsibility to to to your children if there's something that's serious or something that you should be attending to, right? Is a huge red flag. Yeah. So no, so wait, let me let me ask you a quick question. I wanted to def I wanted you to define something, though, is is priority. What does that mean when your kids are a quote unquote priority? Because in a relationship, the way that I look at things, particularly in a romantic relationship that's going to lead to marriage or a marriage, the relationship itself needs to be the priority. And then from that, everything cascades. And if that is healthy, and if that is a is is in a healthy dynamic with the the masculine and the feminine and the and and the dad and the mom or stepdad or step like then and and those dynamics are healthy and they're being executed in a in a proper manner. That has to be the priority, like the relationship. We got to make time for that. So so how so when you say, well, your children are your priority, or her children are her priority, what do you mean when you say that?
SPEAKER_01:Dude, that is that is such a good point. I'm really, really glad you said that. The the relationship when you're when you're in a partnership does need to come first, because that the children rely on the healthy bond in that relationship. Yes. The problem is when I'm just meeting a woman and we're going on a first date or just that vibe check coffee to see whether or not we're a good fit, we don't have a relationship. That that isn't in place yet. So, and for me, that that relationship where where I'm looking at I'm an integral part of her life and and the you know, and the children's well-being and stability, you know, leans on a relationship that I have with her, I see that as fairly far down the line. You know, I'd say that's that's at least five, six months at the very soonest, I would say. I don't know for myself. So so in the beginning, uh when I'm meeting a woman on a dating app, heck yes, the children should be a higher priority than her getting to know me as a man. At a certain point, when we decide to get more seriously involved, and I'm in I'm I'm involved in those kids' life and we're going into a shared family situation, whether I'm bringing kids to the, you know, into that mix or not, okay, that's a shift in in that dynamic. That's a shift in the priority of the relationship. But that's like that's like popping the clutch, you know, on a on a car that you're trying to jumpstart. You know, there's a before moment and there's an after moment where there's a motor running.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So so one of the things that I've found the most challenging in in my life in in dating after divorce is that it seems that the so the schedule, schedule one was the first one on my list. So way to go. Like you you you nailed it right off the right off the as usual, right right off the bat. The schedule thing, especially when you're first meeting, and like you said, in the beginning, you're vibe-checking, you're dating, you're kind of seeing, is this somebody that I'd like to spend more time with, all the stuff we've talked about before, right? But one of the things I find is that that most single moms have not really thought about how they're going to date, which, which, which number one is the schedule. Like, how do you plan on cultivating a relationship that's potentially going to be a long-term relationship? Like they they get on the apps or they they're like, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna start dating again. And then, and then it's and and then you start with the questions like, you know, what's your parenting time schedule? And and like you said, well, I have my kids full time. Well, how in the like I appreciate that, and that's difficult and challenging, right? And and I've been there myself, right? Where I've had my daughters full time, and and it is like what and they haven't thought through it. They're like, like maybe the second Thursday of every month that ends in Y or whatever, like and it's like, well, you can't cultivate a relationship that that that way. So let's let's talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the the availability in the schedule is the number one challenge when it comes to dating single moms. I have a few clients that that that is their their problem that they that they express most often is a lot of the women that they meet are single moms, largely I think because of the age range. And when they're when they they can't get enough time with that woman to be able to feel satisfied and to have the connection. And I know I've had this, I've had to walk away from some really fine women because there isn't the availability to spend that much time together. And also, to your point, when I when I express the interest and I asked them how can we do this, their answer is I don't know. And but but I'm on the outside, I don't I don't feel right reaching in and trying to rearrange you know the parenting, you know, setup and and and what their schedule is. I I don't feel I have a right to do that. I feel that she has to tell me, you know, what works and what doesn't so that I can extend proper invitations.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, so on that, but extending the proper invitations, how would that work in kind of this situ in this situation, right? Because we want to be proactive, we want to take the lead, we want to set the tone. We're trying to invite them like you like you always talk about, invite them into a grand adventure or romantic, like warm interest, like all the stuff that that that you profess and and talk about. And how do you do that with a schedule that they have an ex, which is the next one we're gonna talk about, right? Like the the the baby daddy, right? That that that is the the the the kind of you know elephant in in in the room, if if if you will. How what does that look like? Is it okay to to to say if you've gone on some dates and uh you kind of like them, but the scheduling's been difficult to to to really ask, like what does this look like for for you, or do you like push to like let's do this? And and I'm asking because I've done it both ways, right? Like I've I've been assertive with let's let's you know like schedule this, let's plan it, let's do I want I would like to see us spending time together three to at least three times a week. How do we do and and it's very unromantic, right? Because you've you've got the whole schedule, but you know, it's like a Venn diagram that you got to put together with schedules sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, even even when you're in a married household, you sometimes have to schedule date night and you know, times that you're gonna have sex, like you have to almost put it on the calendar, even when you're in that relationship. Spon spontaneity doesn't work even when you're living together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So so is it so? I guess my question is, is it okay to start to do that? To like start leading with, oh yeah, hey, I'd like like inviting them to spend three days, like I'd like to us to find maybe it's lunches, maybe it's coffees, maybe it's whatever, wherever you can fit in in your schedule. And then if it is okay, like at what point do you start at like what do you do you start talking about that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna again, I I kind of like to avoid the let's have a conversation conversations. I I don't feel that they're very romantic. I don't feel that they they create a lot of attraction. I I feel like a lot of the the the polarity of masculine and feminine really falls flat at that point because we're both stepping into the middle in a neutral place. I would say the place to start is by uh okay, so let's say it's early on in dating, you've been on, you know, three or four dates, six dates. It's you know, you clearly you guys have have chemistry for each other, clearly you have interest, she seems to be responsive and has interest on her end. I would say the place to start there is to be vulnerable and say, hey, I would like to see you. You know, I I'd really I'd I want to see you more. You know, I'm really in well, start with things like I really enjoy your company, I really love the time that we spend together. You know, I'm I'm interested in in the two of us just dating each other if that hasn't already been established. Uh and once, once you're in there, tell her, you know, it's like I'd I'd you put a positive spin on it, you know, like I'd I'd love to see you, you know, twice a week. And it's a desire, it's an expression of something positive. It's if you frame it as, you know, well, we need to at least see each other twice a week, that's setting it up like it's rules or like it's proper or it's expected, or if we're not, then we're not in a relationship. That's that's gonna that's gonna feel like a burden. That's gonna feel like you're hanging on her like one more chore and task that she has to you know fit into the schedule. Where if you're like, well, I can't wait to see you, and I'd love to see you at least twice a week. I mean, ideally, I'd love to be seeing you three times a week. And and then you ask her, what can we do to make that happen? And well, I I would say even before you say that, ask her, you know, how does that feel to her? She might be quite tired and doesn't have the energy to see her man, you know, in whatever capacity that means. You know, she might not have the energy to get together three times a week. And she's like, I'm tired. You know, I've got the kids, you know, 50% of the week. I need some time with my girlfriends to to, you know, all I got I got two nights a week, you know, that I can that I can get together with you in this interim step before the two of you are, you know, cohabitating, co-parenting, and and all of that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that's when you decide if you want it to be recreational, like it can be recreational dating, then you don't have to take it to an exclusive long-term relationship if if you don't want to, if that's if depending on what you want, right? Like know what you want and what your needs are. And then if that's the the situation, then you you know that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and when you share your needs and your desires, you want to express them as desires. This is a positive thing. Women like to be desired. If you're expressing them as a desire for her, you like spending time with her, that's good. If you're saying these are my needs and you need to meet them, you just became another dependent, you just became another child, and that's gonna turn the woman off really, really fast. And it's it's a very subtle shift in the language to go from expressing a desire, but I'm still responsible and owning them, versus I'm now setting this on you. And if we're gonna be dating each other, that means that you need to, you know, X, Y, and Z. That is not gonna land well in the uh in the energy.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then and then you leave it up to her to decide and to show up with whether or not she's going to do that or not.
SPEAKER_01:Even before that, I wouldn't I would express my desire and then I would wait and hopefully hear and and start with what is your desire? You know, how many times would you like to be seeing me, you know, every week? And if she's like, gosh, that sounds great. I'd love to see you three times a week. I just don't know if I can make it happen. Okay, let's let's first celebrate the fact that we have compatible desire. You know, that's building really positive foundation right there. Before we get into the logistics and the ex-husbands and all the other stuff, before we like have to deal with the obstacles, let's celebrate the fact that we actually are compatible and that we both want each other. And I would say, in the midst of the conversation, come back to that. Come back to the fact that you guys are trying to make something positive happen, not yeah, yeah, keep it, keep it, you know, invite, invite her to to share the desire and then move into the logistical, the logistics of the conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Right now, what do you do though when the actions don't align with oh yes, I want that too. But like I said earlier, haven't thought through it, haven't you know how executing saying something and executing something, two different things. And I've run into this a ton of times. Yeah, yeah, like I love the time because I create great dates and fun, like all that, but there's no there's no reciprocation simply in figuring out your their life in order to accommodate being able to spend that time together. And then at some point, how many conversations do you have or how many invitations do you make, Dallas, before you're like, okay, this is obviously not happening?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Do you feel that she is meeting you in the middle with making it happen? That that's the bottom line thing, the bottom line question that you ask. And you have to listen to your own heart. So if if it if it's a if you the both of you have a shared desire and you're like, great, I would love to do this. You know, I'm I'm available, generally speaking, these times, I'm available in this way, I'm available to do these sorts of things. You know, how does that work with you? How does that line up with your with your availability? And if she's like, well, I don't really know because my ex-husband just kind of like calls whenever and shows up or something. And okay, there we're to I I don't think that's a scheduling problem. I think that's a boundary problem. She has she has set up a dynamic with her ex in which that ex does not have to respect her schedule. Yeah, um, there's no way around having to schedule. When you got kids, you got uh, you know, exes, there's no way around getting things on the calendar and having to plan them a week or two or even more in advance. Um, and there's nothing unromantic about that. Um, let me let me just dive into this element that that is great. Women love anticipation. When when a woman knows that you're going to take her to, I don't know, some, you know, out of town for the weekend, and she gets to think about it for three or four weeks in advance, she's not just experiencing the date while she's there. She's dreaming about it, she's thinking about it, she's talking about her friends, she's talking about it with her friends, she's talking about it with her mother, she's talking about it with her kids. Oh, mom, you know, are you excited to go on the trip with Dallas? And you know, she all of these things that are happening in her imagination, this is her experiencing the date before it's even happened. So setting things on the calendar and having them planned out, that's that's just tons of good things for her to look forward to. You know, I mean, we all, you know, if if if we're going on a on a vacation to Europe, you know, in in July and we book the tickets in February, we get to enjoy. that looking forward to that European vacation for the next five months. Right, right. Well I'm shy away from the schedule.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I and I'm I'm really just focused on like can we have dinner? Right? Like maybe not even getting to the not even getting to the point. But there's still anticipation in going to on a date and having dinner and getting dressed up and like all that stuff too. So so I yeah I agree with that. I'm going to be a little more definitive on this Dallas. I'm going to say twice. Like like if you you ex you make that invitation out there, express needs, everything that you just described, what does that look like for for you? What are your needs? And then you don't kind of get a reaction then the invitation or the conversation again a second time if it doesn't happen after that you just know it's not going to it's it's just not going to happen. She either is clueless and and she's not paying attention and dialed in to what's the what a what a relationship is how you need to function in a relationship what your needs are what you've expressed or a lack of community there's just there's something missing there if after a couple of these conversations and and I hate calling them conversations now you've got me trained you do you're you're you're training me right like after a couple of these invites and and and and really trying to to to figure this out after a couple of times I really think that you can just say hey this isn't working.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I I think I I hesitate to put out really strict rules like like that like two times but I think what we have to look for is we have to look for the pattern of behavior. And once we can see that the pattern of behavior is indeed a pattern this you you extend an invitation and then her response is too passive meaning that she's not doing the thing she needs to do to make the date happen. Yeah yeah that's that that she's not being responsive enough for to to pull it all together. And I think after yeah you probably after you extend two or three invitations like that and and there's nothing changing. It's not that she has to necessarily make everything happen, you know, that the ex could still you know pull a pull a fast one at the last minute but the question is is this pattern changing towards something that can work so for me it's a pattern. If if if if the if the woman is clearly very passive or the woman doesn't have boundaries with her ex or the woman you know doesn't or doesn't want to or can't commit to getting together if if it if if the pattern is there, I'm going to invite her into a different pattern, you know, the one that Dallas likes to live by and I'm going to again try to paint it very attractively well you know well let's put something on the calendar you know and make it clear to your to your ex that like you're you he cannot drop the kids off you know willy-nilly you know that that's just not going to happen. You know I'm inviting her into my pattern of living and I'm going to see whether or not she takes the invitation whether or not she likes the sound of that better. But again I'm inviting her I'm not saying hey you need to be more responsible or hey you need to set better boundaries none of that's going to land well with a woman but if I if I'm inviting her into a life that she's like well actually that sounds really good and it's like yeah why don't we take some steps towards that as long as that pattern is being is being shifted and changing over time I'll keep playing ball.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah well and I would say guys listening I and it to wrap up this this final point just pay attention to this one up front off the bat it's going to be an early indicator as to where she's at and her where she's at and her abilities to be able to to to date if if it's you're looking if if you're looking for something long term this is going to be like the first thing you can look at and say okay this is probably if you want it if you want a long term relationship if you just want it recreationally you see each other once in a while whatever and that's what you want then that perfect that might be that might be great which is at this point Dallas honestly what I've found with with single moms is probably the the the the the best best scenarios with the majority okay and and that's again I'm we're talking in generalities right but but let's also let's now talk about some of the other things you you said a couple of things that are really important we we started to hit on let's just get out of the way that the baby daddy thing and like how much patience do you have for another like the other guy's drama and I think you hit on it a little bit like another guy's drama is another guy's drama but how she handles it and how she's structured her life and her abilities again this comes back to her abilities and and how she handles it are really what you need to be looking for, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah what are her ability to set boundaries how clearly they've been set and you know and does that create a functional situation or is her is her tent half like kind of collapsed because he keeps you know coming and knocking over one of the poles the okay when it comes to the other guy the ex he's I mean there are situations in which you know the co-parenting is very peaceful and it works well and they just weren't meant to be married. That I think is often the exception. Usually the ex I think is more of a a source of stress and exhaustion that is an opportunity for me as a man to be a completely different kind of man in her life. One if I'm the guy that she when she's tired and but she can come to it and she can let some of that out and I'm like it's okay to talk about it. I mean we're all adults here and to to let her let that out and for me to listen and to and to to show that I care and to you know not just try to fix the problems the way her ex might have I mean that that's that's emotional leverage for her to get very attracted to me and and for her to enjoy being in my company. I mean I I see the ex in a lot of ways as great. I've got somebody right there reminding her all the time how crappy men can be and that just makes me look better when I show up well in the situation.
SPEAKER_00:But we got to be careful of one thing and that's white knighting. Yes yes right okay because that's different and so describe the difference between what you're what you're describing which is maybe showing up in your masculine in a healthy relationship and and actually that was like the the last one on my list here. So let's jump to it since you what since you brought it up because you know you can call it knighting rescuing whatever whatever you want to call it but describe that and what you should not be doing with that.
SPEAKER_01:Because I I've done that I've been there like and I think lots of guys have done that I have too I have too yeah white knighting is when you are stepping over boundaries to help with things that are not yours, that are not your responsibility. When I said earlier that if a woman has a certain pattern of behavior, I'm inviting her to step into a different pattern which is the one that I Dallas live my life by it's the same thing. I don't want to be coming over trying to fix problems, put out fires, you know, tell her how to be talking with her ex and you know running interference and backfilling and you know that that white knight is coming in and fixing all these problems for her. Right. That's not the thing to do. I have to let her be the independent adult that she is and solve these problems on her own. The the the place that I can be a healthy influence and maintain the boundary. So I can be I can be a masculine warrior but I'm not her white knight coming in to fight all of her battles for her is when first of all listen let her let it all out. And then you can you know if you once she's done with all that and everything's good it's like can I can I tell you what I do in my life in these situations? And I'm talking about my life at that point.
SPEAKER_00:You know you're almost a consultant yeah like like like somebody that's so a sounding board consultant that somebody can can bring things to and and and talk through things if necessary.
SPEAKER_01:Yes I I would I would say a motivational consultant. Okay. Because I want when when I share with her let let let's take something like finances you know I'm pretty organized with my money. And when I meet you know men or women that are not that organized for me to just tell them well here's how you balance your books here's how you do it that doesn't do a whole lot but when I tell them how well I sleep at night because I know exactly where I am financially I tell them you know yeah I can I can buy this thing here or I can take us out there and because I know exactly where I am financially and I'm you know and all these things are in place and I've done this with my retirement investments and you know and this is I know where I am there what they're seeing isn't the technique they're they're not seeing just how do I fix the problem like a consultant. They're seeing what's it like to live this kind of life. This is the motivational side that's attractive. When I'm you know when I'm you know toe to toe you know with a woman I and and she's struggling in these areas and that's an important thing to realize is that a woman that that that has some fires that need to be put out and an ex that's just like a total problem, she's struggling. For us to show up with a lot of very healthy masculine strength that is completely available but we're modeling what healthy strength and and fortitude and structure looks like we're modeling it. That's inspiring and it's attractive. And then she's like gosh I would love to do that. And it's like well would you like to hear what I do in these situations because I used to be I used to lack boundaries because I used to be a mess with my money because I used to you know and you're relating to where she's coming from that's that's a way that you can show up as as a problem solver of your own life as opposed to a white knight going over the going over the line and trying to fix things that are not yours to fix.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And let's let's be clear though that takes a lot of work Dallas right it's already a lot of work yeah in being a single dad and oh yeah taking care of the kids going having a a a job or a business and and making money and then like if she's got chaos in her life with her ex I would say you need to be very cautious like the schedule things first right and if you can't figure it out and then the the ex is causing lots of chaos or she hasn't created boundaries. So I have a very challenging ex. And what I worked really hard to do is isolate her from the the any of the relationships that that I had so that it wouldn't be having it wouldn't have an impact. And the other thing for and so for me and and tell me what you think of this for me it was making her and is making her feel like even though even though I've got all this stuff going on business and kids and like every everything that she still is like the priority she still feels like the priority and and so not that I'm expecting her to do that for me but I would at least expect that you have that you have some sort of some sort of grasp or or isolate ins you know just have it figured out to where it's not drastically impacting. And that doesn't seem Dallas to happen if you've got an ex or you've been in a high conflict divorce or you got an ex that's got some issues or whatever. It seems to find like you like you mentioned if it was an amicable divorce and they're amicable and they figure out the the parenting time and stuff like that, that's usually the the person that then can date has already figured out these boundaries they have healthy boundaries the other ones seem like it's never going to happen no matter how how much you bring your masculine in or your examples or role model and all that it's just not going to matter.
SPEAKER_01:So whether it whether it's going to happen or not is up to that woman that you're you know dating. And I I would say the best you can do and this this is I mean this is a general rule for dating the best you can do is extend an attractive invitation and then how does she respond to it? And that gives you all the information like you said you know it's feedback. It gives you all the feedback you need to decide do I want to keep extending invitations or do I want to let it go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And there were there was another piece that occurred to me you know when you were talking about working through on your end as a single dad you probably had to achieve some new levels of boundaries and strength and organization in your life vis-a-vis your ex. And and those probably felt like wins whenever you reach them and you realized oh this is the thing I need to do to protect the relationships in my life from my ex. And when you when you reach those it was kind of like finding a power up tool in a video game or something. You know it was it was some kind of like wow you know I've I've got this thing and you're winning at this dating game you know as a single dad the way you weren't before I would approach it similarly with a with a woman what we what we want to look for is sh again invite her into situations where that she is enjoying more and that she's winning more and then celebrate those wins with her you know if she chooses to step into them and if she chooses to set patterns that are more enabling for her and her children celebrate those with her. The problem with the white knight is you want to win it for her. You want to step in and fight the battle and you because you want to be the winner and you want credit for being for being that hero. The real hero here is I'm a hero in my own life and I'm inviting a woman into an equal dynamic with me. A white knight isn't an equal dynamic yeah when but I'm inviting her into an equal dynamic with me and I want more than anything to celebrate her wins with her as she steps into a better and better place in her life. I just I I you mentioned the white knight thing it is such a tough thing for most guys. I just want to point out one more way okay to realize if you're looking to win it for her that's not very healthy. But if you're looking to enable her to win it for herself then you know you're maintaining that healthy boundary.
SPEAKER_00:Well I think that is a great point to to put a ball on this this part is if she is making the effort if she is taking steps to actually do that then I think that's a positive but I also want to be very clear to the to the dads listening like don't waste too much time with it. Right like if it is if it is nonstop chaos guys if it is you constantly having to do like you've got so much you know this is where this is where I came up with the smashing the Brady Bunch fantasy right like it's you know it's gonna it's not gonna get it's not gonna get exponentially better faster and you're going to be living in her chaos which takes me to the next point which is like we talked about the priority ladder but you also mentioned inviting into your life right part of our this masculine dynamic in the relationship is you building your life we've talked about on many episodes of getting your values your beliefs together this is blending this is very very different and difficult because of the axe right so you've got an axe but also parenting style so this this one this to me is like the silent relationship killer is is the the parenting styles because if you do finally if you do finally get through that scheduling thing and you've got some time where you're you're spending regular time together and you're maybe starting to deepen the relationship and then you that's fine but then you get to that whatever six you probably really even shouldn't introduce kids to maybe a year. I think lots of lots of therapists and stuff say say a year like six months at a very minimum I I would say especially if you both have kids right because that becomes a giant giant di dynamic but then you know then you start to you start spending more time with them in a different environment and their environment and the different ways in which dad's parent from the ways that moms parent has become a is I have experienced it being a huge issue. And this is a this is a societal issue I I I feel and a challenge that we're we're running in societally where fatherhood and how how dad's parents in the benefits of father's uh parenting and their styles have been diminished and almost I mean it's getting to the point where they're just trying to discredit it and take our young boys and make them into little girls. And and so so this is a very big one guys to to pay attention to and you know here's the thing Dallas that's really I find really challenging about this uh and I've done it different ways in dating I've introduced my girls right away with somebody and and I actually have had that be successful and and have waited and have that be not successful right is the only way you you can really really get to know and understand these these dynamics and and and parenting styles is if you introduce you kids to each other or you you get introduced to their kids and you introduce them to your kids and really get into that that dynamic now there's some ways in which you can gauge some of this beforehand and and and you can talk about this but so comment on on that but comment it on on on what you talk about which is like creating your life inviting into your life like how in the world do you invite somebody into a great like I've got a great life like I've designed I'm very conscientious and intentional about about my life and I meet somebody and it's like it's not yeah I'll just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay wow so much to talk about yeah so the first thing I would say is the mistake that we all tend to make is we make assumptions. I'm assuming that my parenting style whether we have kids or not you know because I even though I don't have kids I was raised a certain way I do have certain beliefs around parenting even though I don't have kids I still have a parenting style uh it's not based on actual experience as a parent but I sure I have it going in. And the the the the worst mistake we can make is to assume that my parenting style is the same as theirs. You know of course I believe that my parenting style is the right one you know otherwise I wouldn't have it. But but imposing that onto somebody else and assuming they're coming from the same place that's that's what we've said earlier about assuming everybody's playing out of the same playbook. They're not people have different pages on parenting from different playbooks.
SPEAKER_00:So realizing I make one quick comment on that please yeah men and dads parent different from women and moms. It's just by a lot by the way that we have been created the way that that that we've been designed to to come Together in relationship and what we provide. And that so I think what you said is a key thing for us to understand is dads, is our parenting is different from a mom's parenting. And that is the number one thing that from a respectful standpoint, we need to bring into a relationship with a mom. That her parenting is going to be very, very different. But that also needs to be reciprocal. She needs to understand that her way in which she's parenting is not the only way or the quote unquote right way. And this is where we're getting a problem societally, which is moms know best, and you know, the the the the nurturing way of kids is the way in which you parent, like that is completely, completely off base. And and that is the problem that we're we're sharing, that we're experiencing here. And if we would share more of, hey, this is I I understand, like I recognize the fact that I can't pay because I've tried Dallas, and I only learned this because I had to be dad and mom for a good period of time in raising my children. It was impossible. I could not be both dad and mom and do everything that a dad and a mom does as one single person. So that made me realize really quickly like there are some amazing things that a woman and a mom bring to parenting kids that I like I as hard as I try, I cannot do it. Now, the problem and the challenge again is when I talk about this and I share this with lots of women these days, I'll say, yeah, is you don't get the back like an understanding of, oh, there's just these amazing things that dads bring to parenting. And so that is something that we you need to dads need to be aware of. And so how do we traverse that?
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So I I I agree with you that I think dads and moms instinctively parent differently. We won't go into too much of those details. No, but I don't know. Yeah. It's just a truth. But I agree, yeah, I agree. I definitely agree with that. The way to have the discussion, okay, the way not to have the discussion is at a summary level. You know, dads are more this and moms are more that, and moms should be this and dad should be that, or there is a difference, or there's not. Okay, this is all a summary level. And the problem is, even if we agree, even okay, we're probably not gonna come to an agreement when we're having a more or less a debate about parenting styles. Even if we did come to an agreement, what we mean in action by by those words that we mean is probably gonna be different anyway. So the way you have it is I is I would bring up concrete examples. Nothing provides clarity like concrete examples. So if I if I had two daughters like you do, and I was dating a woman, and I would be like, So this crazy thing happened this weekend where, you know, you know, the the the younger daughter did this to the older daughter, and then this happened and everything. And I'm just curious, you know, what would you do in that situation?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So right there, I'm not talking about parenting styles. I'm not talking about how to do it. I'm presenting for her before she's met my kids, long before she's met my kids. But I'm thinking about it. I'm like, so what would you do in that situation? And and here I'm gonna use, you know, one of those, you know, overused terms. I'm going to be curious, where is she coming from as a mother? And I would be like, can you help me understand? Like, what are they getting? What are they providing, you know, in those situations? Here's the reason I'm doing this. If I'm if I am presenting a situation and not how I think it should be handled, and I'm asking her how she's going to do it, I'm getting a a very pure, unbiased view into her parenting style. And then when I'm curious and I want to understand, that's me acknowledging point blank in the moment that moms parent differently. And as a dad, I don't fundamentally understand and that I want to understand and respect it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. That is a nice that is beautiful. And that was what I wanted to get to. Yeah. Perfect. Now let me take it one step further. Once I've done all of that, then I'd say, well, you know, as a dad in that situation, notice how I'm completely framing it as I'm coming from a different place. Here's what I was gonna do, and then you see how she reacts. Does she meet your curiosity with her parenting style, with curiosity on her end for your parenting style as a dad? Or did she tell you how she parents and then she doesn't want to hear how you parent? And you can tell right there in that conversation whether or not she's open and balanced in in the dynamic, or if she feels that she has a monopoly on how this is supposed to go.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But again, if we try to have a theoretical or abstract conversation about this, that's almost never going to work. We have to give them a concrete situation. Or, you know, in my case, I don't have kids. You know, if something happened, you know, with their kids, I would be like, so so how did you how did you handle that? How did you do it and go about it? And then I might say, you know, you know, since we're getting kind of serious here, you know, and what you're talking about, me beating your kids, can I tell you what I think I might do in that situation as the as the as the male, you know, as as as the male adult in that in that household, you know, and then I'll see whether or not she wants to hear what I have to say, because that's gonna tell me how involved I'm actually going to get, or if I'm just some sort of like, you know, hairy guest staying in the house for years. You know, it's it's and and but but getting concrete about it and then letting the other person share, that's the key to getting around the assumptions and around the again, around the conversation that doesn't really reveal much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and I so that has also helped me to uh uh particularly having three daughters, has actually helped me to learn more about being a better father, about being a daughter, because that's that what you just described is exactly what I wanted to get to, because the challenge for us dads is that when you're getting down, you're down the line now, maybe like six months, like this is somebody that you you you really like. And and and like I said, this this has been and this seems to be the silent relationship killer because it's not something well, it's it's it's hard to talk about. And so if you do it like you just described, which is looking for feedback, like trying to un in a in a curious way, curiosity and trying to understand, it's going to well, it's gonna do two things. One, it's gonna help you understand where where she's at and if you agree with it, and then see also like you described if she's if she comes back to you for feedback too, eventually, and and does that and asks you, that's a that's a huge thing. That's that's that guys, I will say if if you start doing this and then you start seeing that she starts coming to you and and and confiding in you and being vulnerable. I mean, that's a big vulnerable thing then. And then you start talking and then she starts asking you, that's gonna take your relationship to to the next level. So this and then that might be a time where you can start thinking about, I would say, introducing you each other to your kids if that starts to happen, because then that demonstrates what you described, which is there's a mutual curiosity, but also there's a mutual respect for what it is that you bring to the relationship, and she's demonstrating to you that she respects what your opinion is, what you've done as a father, how you show up as a father and as her as her lover, and as her as her man, etc. And that's gonna that is going to prove a lot to you. If that doesn't happen, guys, then I would say pause and pause just for a little bit. I'm look, man, like my pauses have gotten shorter and shorter over the decade plus that I that I've been dating, right? Like if it's not happening, it's probably not gonna happen, guys. If it doesn't, if there's not a mutual respect that happens pretty quickly, it's not like eventually she's gonna develop this respect for how you're parenting and and and want to have feedback and then want to do it with you together like the Brady Bugs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. The the 100% agree. Very, very well said. I the the picture I have in my mind when you're describing that is is this a two-way street? And and we want to test drive, driving in both directions on the two-way street, well before we bring kids into the mix, because you don't want to enter into a relationship and you really don't want to bring your kids into a dynamic where it's not a two-way street. Yeah. Um, and and it's really, it's really sad sometimes, especially if she's really attractive, to have to walk away. Let's be honest. A lot of the times we're being very open-minded. We're we're like, we're we're hoping, we're we're giving the benefit of the doubt, we believe in the potential because we're really attracted to her.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And and it it but you have to you have to be honest with yourself, especially if you're bringing kids into the mix, you have to be honest with yourself. Do I want this woman influencing my children? And you know, is this a real two-way street where both sides are talking, both sides are listening, and and is this something that we are, is this something that I want to model for my children to have? Or am I walking into another dysfunctional one-way street, you know, that's it's weird. The last thing, the last thing I want to also uh add to this is when you're having these conversations, which is test driving this to see whether or not you can listen to her talking about how she parents, whether or not she is curious and listening to you talking about how you parent. When this works well and successfully, it's actually a very exciting conversation because you're seeing what it would be like to have another parent right there. And the two of you are learning about the other side, the masculine and the feminine. The two of you are seeing a much larger perspective than you are on your own. And hopefully you're excited about what what kind of realizations, what kind of fun family life you could have if you were to blend the two families together. And I would say that you need to almost be enjoying and feeling excited about the chemistry together of parenting, like the parenting chemistry needs to almost be as exciting as you know, your your sexual attraction to her.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, dude, totally. I get totally turned on if I get on this get in a conversation and on the same way wavelength with a a woman who's in her feminine and talk and talking about being a like something about a mom and being a mom and in her feminine that is so unbelievably attractive to me. It is so like it is the sexiest thing beyond beyond anything, at least at least for me. So so I want I wanted to just say basically, if we're going through and having these conversations, whether it's in the beginning about scheduling and or at or or at the end and being curious and then watching and listening, really, really what I'm taking away from everything that you said today, Dallas, is be curious and and and then observe and and and what and listen. Observe and and listen, and that way you're you're going to be able to get a lot of feedback that is going to help you determine whether or not you want to either keep going in this, take it to the next level, whatever, whatever it might be. And another thing you hit on at the end about about the the hotness factor, right? Like, I'll just say, no matter how hot if these red flags come up, guys, and you're like you're like, maybe if you start to the question, just get out. Like it's just not worth it. And I'm speaking from experience, guys. Just it's just not worth it. And and that's hard though, because as a divorced dad, particularly, if you're just getting back in into dating, now I'm a decade down the road. It's much easier for me to be like, okay, thanks. It was great meeting. You're wonderful, but we're this isn't a long-term match, right? That was much harder for me in the beginning. Uh because I was like, oh, I'm getting attention, and she's so hot, and you know, sex might be great, like whatever. But I can tell you, you need to be, you need to, you need to number one, have a coach like Dallas, or a or good friend, or friends, even better, that around you that you can bounce this stuff off of when you're when you're not in that highly eroticized state when you're around her and all of your hormones are going off, and you can talk about what she said about her kids or what she's doing with her ex or what her schedule's like, and you can say, Hey, Dallas, like what do you think of this? Have male friends around that you can talk about dating with.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so true. And it's so hard when we're strongly attracted to a woman to keep our wits about us. It it we we just we want it, the desire, we become focused, where you know, that hunter instinct kicks in, and we will we will look past all kinds of all kinds of stuff that we shouldn't look past.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so so when you're asking yourself, okay, am I turned on by my desire for her? Or am I turned on by her responsiveness to me?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That would be that would be the thing to keep in mind is is do I love the way she's making me feel because of how she responds to what I'm putting out there, what I'm inviting her to, you know, what I'm what what I'm in trying to initiate with her? Or am I just am I just attracted to her from a one-sided place and has nothing to do with how she's actually responding and engaging with me?
SPEAKER_00:I think I think that is the perfect way to to end it, right? Like that is the litmus test, if you will, if you're gonna have to have a litmus test, or you need, like I do, this uh this straightforward way to think about things, because I'm a guy, right? That is that is a perfect way to think about what is what is turning you on? Is it the the physical or is it how she's responding to what you are putting out there? And if it's not what you're putting out there, then you need to you need to reassess and really determine what your priorities are and and probably you know cut and and bait and go another direction.
SPEAKER_01:Or like you say, Jude, keep it recreational, or keep it recreational.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, there's nothing wrong if that's what you want or that's what she wants. Just be open and clear about what what you're doing and what that is. Yeah, yeah. Cool. This is awesome, dude. Good stuff. Hey, yeah, hey, I just want to acknowledge, man, we I think we did a good job on that third round. That's a tough one. People get really upset about that. Nobody wants to talk about the the challenges with it. Nobody wants to say that it's not a freaking superpower. It that's complete bullshit. Nobody wants to talk about the access, nobody wants to talk about uh how you parent, like all this stuff, these like all those subtopics within this topic are all third route stuff. And I feel like we did a a satisfactory job with talking about that in a respectful manner. So thank you as always. You are amazing, Dallas, and in traversing some of these difficult things. How did the guys uh get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_01:Get in touch, first of all, like and subscribe to this show if you haven't done it already. Uh, second, hop on the mailing list so you can be part of our live QA sessions that we're doing with the Dad's Dating After Divorce. We do once a month. You want to be sure to get on the mailing list so you can jump in and talk to us live. And then if you're interested in some coaching in your dating life, go over to blackboxdating.com and check out the men's coaching program. All right, where do they go to get on the mailing list?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this Thursday, this the 18th, is the Dad's Dating After Divorce QA. It's free, guys. So go to the divorced advocate.com, go to the events calendar, check it out. You can you can download all of our events that are that are going on there. And also, just I can't emphasize enough, it doesn't cost you any money to really help us expand the reach of this podcast. It's growing every week. We just had the most downloads this week that we've ever had. And so it continues to grow. But if you share this on social media, or even better, if if you'll just leave us a star rating and a comment, what that makes the algorithms go crazy. And then the algorithms on all these podcast platforms then start putting our putting our podcasts out to more and more people. So it this costs you nothing. This is we do this for free, but if you can help us, it's gonna help so many more dads out there just to to leave a star rating and a comment. It was it is it is just you have no idea how much that helps. So I just want to emphasize that that helps us out immensely, and we appreciate you listening. So, Dallas, have an awesome week. We'll talk to you then. You too, Jude. Talk to you next week. Bye.
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