Dads Dating After Divorce
Dating after divorce isn’t what it used to be—especially when you’re a dad. The rules have changed, the world has changed, and now you’ve got kids in the mix. Join Dallas and Jude as they share real-world strategies and insights from their work with dads and men at BlackBoxDating.com and TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.
Dads Dating After Divorce
34 - Wait...since when do we send voice notes?
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Dating after divorce shouldn’t feel like decoding a secret menu. We unpack the new rules of communication for 2026—where swipes, voice notes, and five-minute video vibe checks can either waste your energy or quietly fast-track you into a great first date. Our focus is simple: lead with clarity, protect your kids and privacy, and create safety so a real connection can breathe.
We start by separating two paths: app-based chats and in-person meets. On apps, silence isn’t personal and pace is everything. Some women want longer message arcs to feel secure; others are desperate to escape app fatigue and meet quickly. We walk through how to read those signals without guessing, when to move off-platform, and why a Google Voice number is a smart layer between your family life and the dating unknown. You’ll learn how short, specific invitations beat long exchanges, and why getting flexible with her preferred medium shows competence, not neediness.
Then we dive into the tools that actually help: concise video checks and 20–40 second voice notes. Used well, they’re time-savers that prove you are who you say you are and give your messages warmth text can’t carry. We share a five-minute video rule, scripts that end the call confidently, and a simple follow-up rhythm that builds anticipation instead of anxiety. If you’ve ever wondered whether to call early, how often to text as a busy dad, or how many emojis are too many, we’ve got clear, low-drama answers—and an easy framework for setting expectations she can rely on.
Finally, we tackle the hard parts: recognizing a slow fade, making bold invites that rekindle momentum, and exiting with integrity when it’s not a fit. Ghosting is cowardly; clean, kind endings create your next beginning. Ready to swap cargo shorts energy for confident leadership that respects her safety and your time? Hit play, try the One Text Challenge, and tell us which strategy you’ll use first.
If this helped, subscribe, share with a dad who needs it, and drop a quick review—your words help more men find the guidance they’re looking for.
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the only podcast helping you ditch the cargo shorts, master the swipe, and actually find someone who likes your dad jokes. My name is Jude Sandoval. I am the founder of The Divorce Dabba Kit, and my co-host is Dallas Bluth, founder of Black Box Dating. I take it you like that new opening. I'm gonna start testing them every week. New ones.
SPEAKER_00:My reaction is going to be when ditching the cargo shorts in itself sounds like a dad joke. So that's what had me rolling right away.
SPEAKER_02:Perfect, perfect. Well, I am a dad, so it all fits uh perfectly, perfectly well. All right, so now that we started on a low note, let's uh see if we can't uh dig ourselves out. We are gonna be talking, Dallas, today, about the unwritten rules of communication in 2026. And so most of us dads haven't dated for a while. The last time we probably were dating, we were poking people on Facebook and had our and had our BlackBerry Messenger phones out and whatnot. So so things have changed a little bit. There's the whole FaceTiming stuff, and there's swiping, and there's apps, and there's texting, which is a whole thing we could probably do an entire episode on in and of itself of text. So we're gonna just try to get the dads up to speed today. And so, dads, if you're listening, if you're like me, like when I just first started this, like, oh my god, I I was blowing up women's phones with text messages, and they're like running for the hills, and like I had no idea. And like, I was just dumb. I didn't know like sending 15 messages in a minute was like a bad thing, right? So, so we're gonna help you know try to avoid some of those, some of those faux faux pas things. And and and and and what I want I do want to say though, as as a dad, and in 2026, being clear and communicative is really good and sexy, and like we talked about last last week about kind of your built-in automatic skills that you already have now. You should have a lot of this stuff because you're a dad. You've probably if you know, if you weren't good at communication before you had kids, you and especially if you have teens now, like I do, like you probably have gotten a lot better at communicating schedules and logistics and and really just being direct, right? Maybe not beating around the bush about about stuff. So so that's what we're gonna talk about, Dallas.
SPEAKER_00:Initial thoughts. Huge topic. There is there's so much to this. I I I just want to know after texting a woman 15 times in just a few minutes, did you and she didn't respond? Did you then poke her on Facebook? That's what I want to know.
SPEAKER_02:Basically, no poking at all happened, Dallas. Let's just put it that way. Okay. All right. Hey, you opened it up. I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I kind of I want to approach this kind of a couple of different ways, and those are kind of the dating pathways ways. Like one is you're on the apps and you're communicating that way into dates and dating, and the other is you're in person and you're meeting and getting a number or setting up a date and then and then doing that. So let's start with the the app process because that seems to be like where everybody is, as much as we will continue to emphasize in person is great, is can is better, it's less less time consuming, it's more efficient. Like there's so many more benefits to that. But I know a lot of dads want to maybe just dip their toe in with the online dating. It's passive, it's like very risk-averse and easy to do. So that's understandable.
SPEAKER_00:Do you want to make a comment about that though? Um, it's also draining. The the online dating apps, it's a it's a bit of a grind. You're gonna put in a lot of time sending messages that you don't get a response to. Don't take that personally. That's just the nature of the beast, that's part of the the technology and the means of communication. Let me let me let me make one comment uh out there, and I'll probably come back to this several times. Is in the end, uh sorry, in the beginning, you know, the man and the woman are both strangers to each other. There's inherently risk, there's a whole lot of unknowns, and we as men have to remember that that the woman is innately more vulnerable than we are when we're a total stranger. And when we keep that in mind, we have to realize we have to be a little bit more flexible and adaptable to whatever medium of communication that woman is the most comfortable with, as well as the pacing and the style of the communication that the woman is comfortable with. So when we talk about the online dating apps, some women want to chat on there for a while. They'll have a lot of messages back and forth, you'll ask them out, and then they're like, well, you know, I'm not really that comfortable. I don't like to meet a guy until, you know, I don't know, they've had three binders worth of texting back and forth through the dating app. Right. That that's her comfort level, you know, that's where it is. But for other women, you will get hardly any responses at all, but they will continue to respond when you reach out to them. They're just waiting for you to ask them out a lot of the time.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:They're they want to take it from this digital format to in real life. And the the advice that I always give my clients is you you have to be flexible in the beginning. You have to set up, you have to let a woman be where she's comfortable. That woman that wants to meet in real life, you know, quickly, what she's most sensitive to is how much the the dating apps are draining her energy. And she's protecting herself from that drain. These other women that that want to message on there a whole bunch, they feel they feel like there's more danger in meeting in person, somebody that they haven't messaged with a whole lot. And that's where you have to, you know, make that accommodation. Uh, I'm not saying obviously to be a doormat and to keep doing this, you know, you know, several dates in, but in the beginning, be flexible, be adaptive. You know, you set your lead, you see how she responds, and then you adjust your lead accordingly.
SPEAKER_02:So is there so is there something to be said though, if somebody does want, because I find the with the women that I have met dating online that want to message back and forth and don't want to meet. And what I mean, and when I say meet sooner than than later, that doesn't mean you send a message and meet tomorrow, right? That means maybe sending some messages back and forth. Some women want to message for a day or two, and like you said, you can kind of get that that gauge if their responses are kind of minimal, etc., they're either not interested or they just want to eat, they want to meet in in real life and not message back and forth. I found that I'm more compatible with somebody like that. So usually I will I will send, I I will I call it escalate, and maybe that's not a good word, but I will um initiate uh escalate to the next level of wanting to meet in person relatively quickly after some messages, some cordials, etc. Because after just some of the basic stuff, then you get into the you know the the deposition style questions of what's going on in your in your life, and then that just becomes well then I then and then you tell me what you think of that. I use that as an opportunity to then try to lead it into like you know, it's you know, it's it's much easier to depose me in person than it would be on, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Is it dude? Is it is it easier is it easier to depose them or is it easier for you to distract them away from the deposition? Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:I'm much more charming in person than over text, right? For sure. So so so there's something to be said, maybe uh for kind of if you find now I've done a lot of dating, right? So I've kind of seen the difference. Tell me what you think about that. And have you been inclined to uh a woman or somebody that is one way or the other, or do you think it just kind of crosses over?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so uh first of all, there's personal preferences. I I do like a woman who's more verbose over text. I'm a words guy. Um, I I enjoy that that part of the communication. I try to be a little bit playful, and and uh in my nature, I get turned off if she's not playful in response to me. But there are many women that I've met in person, and it's a whole different vibe once we're in person. It's a whole different texting game after we've met in person than before, particularly after we've kissed. Suddenly, you know, that the texting and the messaging comes alive. I'm gonna come back to the the principle I I was stating earlier. You gotta cut a lot of slack in the beginning. Don't think that through this tiny little phone and these little profiles that are busy on your end and really busy on her end that you can somehow figure out who and what she really is. You can't. Um so I yeah, I think the word escalation is good. You know, it's it's maybe a little strong to this context, but that's what it is. You're escalating. You're trying to move the ball down the field. You're like, okay, cool, we've done this play. It was fine. We got a catch. It's time to move it's it's time to make another play. And and as a man, I think most women really enjoy it when the man initiates, puts himself out there, makes that invitation. You know, the question is, what does she do when you ask her out? You know, she's like, Oh, I'd like to text her some more. I mean, I will give, I will, you know, I'll I'll say, okay, cool, give a couple of few days, you know, for that to kind of sink in or whatever's going on. Sometimes I will ask, you know, if they're like that, you know, but I still want to not waste my time and I want to move things forward. I'll say, well, that's fine. Do you want to move this conversation over to texting? Because here's the other thing you got to remember with online dating people disappear at any time and any place out of nowhere. That woman could suddenly get exhausted, all kinds of things. You want to your goal on the dating apps is to get out of the dating apps as quickly as possible. Um some women don't want to share their phone number until they met you in person.
SPEAKER_02:I was just gonna say that. Some don't are like, no, I just want to message through this app until we meet, and then if I feel comfortable, I'll give you the number too. So I find like women are all over the place on this. Yes, like they're all over the place.
SPEAKER_00:So you got to cut a lot of slack. You have to understand that they're coming from different places because they're going to feel safe and comfortable in different places. And you got to be flexible. You got to be like, okay, cool. This woman wants to talk with me on the phone or FaceTime me before meeting in person. Fine, that's cool. You know, I'd like to get her number just so we can text showing up to the date. I it is a personal thing with me. It feels like a shoestring, you know, like a thread that we're hanging by to meet for a date when we're only messaging through the app. That that to me just feels very precarious. But some women that that's what they love to do. I but and here's the other thing. Don't worry about being perceived as, you know, as a creep or as being, I don't know, too forward or something when you invite them, you know, and go, hey, would you like to transition this over to text? They're like, no, you know, I really, you know, I prefer just to chat here. Let her set her boundaries with whatever's comfortable for her. But it's your job, you know, in the lead to to take your shot and to try to move the ball down the field, make another play, and as Jude says, escalate in poking her on Facebook.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. Hopefully, you're not dating on Facebook, but hey, I guess there is a dating marketplace on Facebook. I have not entered into that, and I don't know that.
SPEAKER_00:I have to jump in and say that was the last one I used. You know, I really yeah, I haven't actively used a day any dating apps myself from my personal life. I think we're coming up on two years now. Um on a personal level, energetically, I it feels awesome. But the last one that I used, and I think I used it for about a year, was the was the Facebook dating app. And I person I personally liked it because it because the dating app in Facebook is there to promote just traffic on Facebook itself. So it's really a product. I don't even remember if there were any premium features that you could buy. It was just and and you know that anyone on there for the most part is going to be a real person.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:This isn't just a training profile. And it and it it took the basic elements of all the dating apps, put them together, and it was just swipe on each other, send a conversation, meet in person. I I thought it was nice because it it cut out a lot of the baloney of the other apps.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the other apps have all these different, crazy different features that are not necessarily beneficial, right? It's just connect, see if you like each other and and and try to meet, but it doesn't benefit them if you get off the app and stop paying by month every month.
SPEAKER_00:So and to that point, I am to this day convinced that Facebook knew exactly the type of woman I was looking for and would show me women close to that, but never actually that, so that I would stay on, I would keep the app installed and I would keep using it.
SPEAKER_02:On Facebook, yeah. Maybe one episode we could go through some of the apps and talk about some of the apps and do that. Maybe. I mean, that sounds awful to you, I know, but that's okay. All right. So what about our safety though? So you talked about them, etc. Do you are you comfortable with using like a Google number or a burner number or something like that? Because we do have kids, and last thing we want is somebody that is blowing up our phones after you know one date or two dates, and you said, Oh, I don't think we're gonna match or whatever, and then it becomes a problem. You can link your phone numbers with addresses and and stuff like that online. Very true. Yeah, I got maybe I I just might have a story or two around that. That if you come to our our our our live event on the 19th, you might get to to hear some of that because we'll be at the the the view house. But what do you think about that? Is that is that fair to to be able to let her know that I've got this, you know, this this is my number, or or that you're just using that number for for dating?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I I don't see a problem with it. I I haven't used it a whole lot myself in a long time, but particularly with children, you know, when when you reveal to her later you go on a date or two dates and you're like, hey, you know, I just want to let you know the number I gave you is a number I use just for the online dating. I'd like to give you my real number now. Okay, that sounds like you're stepping in deeper, you're trusting her more. That that doesn't feel bad. I've I've had many, many, many women do that to me. I'm not offended that they gave me a number that they're using to protect themselves, you know, that's that's disconnected from who they are. I I don't have a problem with it. And particularly if you're saying the reason I do this, you know, if you're curious, is just I want to be sure my kids are safe. I don't want I don't want people to be able to look at my address. I think any woman should look at that and go, well, that's a good protective, nurturing, you know, instinct that you have. You're you're taking precautions, you're not being cavalier with your responsibilities as a father. I think that I think that's great. I don't see any reason not to.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Well, I I I agree with that uh a hundred percent. And I think it's a it's a a good a good way, a good system have in place, dads, just uh to to make sure because there's so much information out there, and literally if you've got a phone number, you can literally trace somebody and find their address and where they work and everything else. So so I would recommend getting it, and it's easy to get a Google number, get a Google number, use that that that number. I use one, I use it for business too, like so I do that. So so definitely use that. So you talked about some also some of the the features on the app. So we kind of have these features, these communication features of the the the face timing, the video chats, as well as the the voice message as as well. Give us some feedback around those because I'll just give you I'll give you my take. I hate them. I despise I despise the video chats, yeah, and I despise the like the the the voice the voice recording things. Like I would rather just okay, let's have a phone call. If you want to have a phone call, like old school, we'll have a little chat. I don't know why we need to do it on video, like let's just have a chat. I've done it, it's uncomfortable, it's weird, it's kind of like where should I sit in my office, like right here, like I'm in a like I'm recording a podcast, or should I be laying, you know, should not probably be laying in my bed and talking in a bathtub, obviously.
SPEAKER_00:You want bubbles, you know, you want some candles going in the background, you want some like cheesy 1980s saxophone music playing. That's all you're supposed to do.
SPEAKER_02:No, absolutely some Luther Vandros playing, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:What are your thoughts on on that? And our yeah, so you hear a lot more than I do from from women, and I get and I get this request from women sometimes, like, hey, I'd love a video chat. Yeah. Like, what what do you feel?
SPEAKER_00:It's a vibe check. Um, okay. You know, they want to know, okay, what is this guy? You know, he's texting great, but what does he feel like in real time? What does he look like in real time? Is he super nervous? Does he show up? You know, in a lot of ways, these are these are time-saving tools to make sure that, you know, I as a woman, it's worth it for me to go on a date with this guy, and and vice versa. They they want you to kind of reveal a little more of yourself to them before making the jump to meeting in person. That's that's what's really at the heart of it. And I think when you see it that way, you know, you have to ask yourself, Oh, I'm this is so annoying. She wants me to do this. Well, if a woman that you're genuinely interested in, you're not going to be annoyed when she says, Well, I'd like to video chat with you first. You'll be like, Yeah, no problem. Now, on my end, I would keep it short. Sure about that. Okay. Well, okay.
SPEAKER_02:So my I flat out review, I like I will usually say something nice like, I just not really comfortable with video chatting, but I'd love to get in love to get together in person and buy a coffee or like what you know, whatever. And is that the same concept? It's the same concept of what she's trying to to do, which is get a vibe chat. It's a it's a public place. Like for for me, it's all the same. It accomplishes all the same things that I feel like she's looking for, and it gives me a better opportunity to really see if we we connect instead of just another thing. So, like, really, literally, no matter how hot she is, I'll be like, Yeah, I'm not really up for that.
SPEAKER_00:That's fine. And you can set it and you can say no. And you know, it plays out the way it plays out. From the woman's point of view, imagine this is a big sales funnel, and she as a woman has way more sales leads coming in the top of her funnel than we do as men. And she's gotta she's gotta percolate that down. She's gotta, she's gotta figure out how to weed out. And the cost for her of a five, 10 minute video chat versus the cost of a 30 to one hour conversation, closer to an hour probably, coffee date. I have to get ready, I have to go there, I have to come back. Realize she's trying, she's just working a sales funnel down to see the guys that really connect with her. Now, if you want to hop out of her sales funnel because you don't want to do step two or three, and you're trying to get to her step five, I mean, that that's your choice. But from her point of view, she she wants to whittle these down and you know, and and and save time and energy and all of that. And I, I mean, personally, I don't have a problem. Like if I'm if I look at it like a job that I'm interviewing for, and it's you know, and it's Google, you know, that I'm I'm you know, seeing if I can work for them, you know, or I'm you know, I what I am fine for a well-paid, high, you know, high-end job. I'm fine jumping through the damn hoops I gotta jump through in order for them to vet me properly for this position. You need me to pee in a cup for uh, you know, for a drug test, you know, you need me to talk to like have a series of four or five different interviews along the way. It's all a question of what I'm, you know, what I'm applying for, you know, what the process is. Because, you know, like Google, tons of people, you know, applying for these jobs.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's where my rub that where my rub comes is that I feel like I should be moving it in the direction I shouldn't be jumping through the hoops. So so for what you just described, I think is in my masculine nature. I'm not comfortable with, oh, let me jump through more of your hoops so that I can, you know, get to that to that first date. Yeah. So that's what one of the things that bugs me.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so for me, jumping on a video call for five or 10 minutes, I'm not worried about where I am. I'm not worried about how I'm dressed. For me, this isn't jumping through a hoop. This is me making the woman feel safe. She's told me, you know, Dallas, I need a vibe check. Like I need to, I want to see your face, I want to see your mouth move, I want to see that you're real. I want to see that you aren't 15 years older than your photos on this profile because I've been on so many dates where I've been tricked this way and I'm sick of it as a woman. Like I'm tired of guys doing this. And me as a guy, I'm like, here, yes, you know, I'm fine validating who I am. I'm fine showing you that I am exactly what I present to be. You you can feel it and you go, yeah, okay, this is solid, this checks out. For me, five, 10 minutes somewhere doesn't matter. And I'm just I again, I'm I I see what you mean by jumping through hoops, but I mean, if she's trying to you know have a long conversation for 30 minutes, I'll be like, hey, look, I I gotta go. I would love to continue this conversation, let's do it in person. But I'm I'm giving her I'm giving her what she needs to feel safe. And every woman needs something different.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's that's understandable, which I think leads us to what we mentioned before, which is in person is so much better because you're not dealing with all this monkey business. So if you're meeting in person, there's already a vibe check automatically happening. Yeah, she sees you, you see her. The it like all that crap that goes on the with the with the dating apps and the people not showing up or ghosting or like all that stuff, just it it goes away. Right. So so that that is just a perfect example of all all of this. And then and then to your point, there are there are women that are are truly just trying to get that vibe check and feeling feeling comfortable. And there are the women that are actually making you jump through hoops and yeah and and making it difficult.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and you don't really know why they're asking beforehand or when they ask the question. You don't know. I again for me, if if a woman wants me to jump on a video call, be sure, you know, and you know, and and you let it go, and then about five minutes, ten minutes in, you go, hey, you know, I gotta run, I've got other things I'm, you know, that I gotta do. I'm gonna cut it off. I'm not gonna keep giving her all that she asks for. You know, me, me saying, okay, you know, I'm I'm setting a boundary here, I'm not gonna let you feed off of me more than this. That for me is me staying in my masculine frame. But me saying, What do you, you know, sure, I'm I'm you know, now does she need a second one of those or a third one of those? Yeah, I would be like, You've seen me, you know where we are, let's move this forward. But if but if she needs it for whatever reason, and again, this is where I feel that we really need to think about her perspective. She's seen so many guys that are carrying 40, 50 pounds more in real life than they are in their photos. You know, they've got 10 plus years, you know, more on them on them than they do in their, you know, than they do in their photos. Women are sick and tired of being drained by the process. And and and this is this is the thing you need to appreciate. How much does it really cost me as a man to give her five minutes on a video call for her to see Dallas doesn't drain you?
SPEAKER_02:Hold on. What woman have you ever talked to for five minutes on a video call? Like that's gonna be way more than five minutes unless you're not unless you're just answering yes or no.
SPEAKER_00:Well, all the come on, man. Okay, all the ones, all the ones that I said, this is great talking to you. I'm sorry, but I gotta run. Oh, okay. I'm cutting it off. Okay, so you can then all right. So let's talk about it now. That's my masculine, you know. When you talk about the masculine frame, that's the masculine frame is saying, hey, I gotta run. I, you know, we just had a quick chat. It's it's been five minutes. I gotta get going here. And and that creates scarcity, you know, on your end. That says you're going other places, you're doing other things. You know, you don't have to get all dressed up, you know, you don't have to have the bubble bath going, you know. It's obviously that's a joke. You can do it wherever you need to do. She just wants to make sure that you're you're what you appear to be. That's it. Well, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:So that would be that would be more understandable because then if it is because then I also what that does is if she asks for another one, then you know it's just jumping through hoops. If she doesn't, and then you're already then you're able to to you know escalate it to the next the next point or the the next level, which is asking her out and meeting in person, then you know that it was just truly a vibe check. And it was only five minutes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And if she, you know, and if she wants, you know, to have another video call or another video call, you go, hey, look, I'm really looking to meet somebody in person. Notice I'm saying I. I'm talking about me, not her. I'm not saying, well, you know, it seems like you really, I'm not saying anything like that. That that's putting a burden, that's putting that's creating all kinds of resistance. I say, look, I'm really looking to meet somebody in person. You know, I would love to meet you in person, but for me, that that's what I'd like to do next. And I just you you just said it square and let her deal with it. She's not going to get anything new off of a second or third call that she hasn't met already. This is assuming, by the way, that she's in town, you know, and that that getting coffee isn't something. You know, if she lives like, you know, a two-hour flight from you, I would hope you would adjust these rules accordingly.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, um that's a whole nother, you know, that's well, and and so some of that stuff is important to to lay out and ask because I can't tell you the number of times I get, oh, but I'm in Phoenix, or oh, I'm I'm like, why are you dating and why do you have your app set to to Denver? Oh, I'm a flight attendant. Okay, great. Well, you know, so some of those things, and that's part of that that back and forth kind of texting thing or the messaging thing in the beginning, and just kind of getting the cordials and talking about stuff, some stuff, but you really need to kind of dive into like you can do it. I feel like you can do it in a in a fun, silly way that kind of tests, well, are are you in town? Are you available? Like some of the basic things that you can't get like without really talking to her or asking her out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and if you want to make those fun and light and not and not heavy, say, yeah, so I just need to check. I've I've I've met several women, turns out they're not living, you know, in my city to actually live here. You know, and you you you you're basically sharing in you know this past experience that you've had, you're like, look, I'm looking for this type of experience.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you, you know, and you lead the questions that way. That that even makes it so that you're not being a hard ass yourself as a man. You're just kind of kind of like using, you know, the burner number, you know, the Google number or whatever. You're doing it to protect yourself, you're doing it to protect your time, you know, you're you're you're vetting properly. I think that's a good way to frame it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:All right. One one last thing on the dating apps, and then let's switch over and talk about more communication in person. I know you you've suffered through this for half the episode. I appreciate you, Dallas. The those those voice to text or things that are on all the apps, and then they're actually on like you could do it on text messages too, which like I've got a friend, and she knows that I hate them, so now she just does them all the time. She'll like send me a text message with a voice message, like, I'm gonna kill you.
SPEAKER_00:Just call me. This is ridiculous. Okay. That this is just another, this is another vibe check. This is another her getting getting the information that she needs of her experience of you. That's what this comes down to. I'm I'm I'm gonna guess most of the men listening to this have had situations where a woman says, Dallas, I just want to hear your voice. She gets all the words she wants over texting, but she doesn't get my voice. The voice has a huge impact, it has a reality, it has a time to achieve there. It it you know, texting drains a lot of information out of it. It's easy to misread. Yeah, well, when you're leaving a voice message like that, that where she's listening to an audio of you for 25 seconds, 45 seconds, she is getting a fuller picture of you all at once. Now, here's the thing, and and I I I should have mentioned this earlier with the video calls, but is guys, you need to be comfortable putting yourself out there. I'm, you know, it's like, do I, you know, did I initially like leaving my first voice notes for a woman? No, I didn't. But now I'm realizing how incredibly impactful they are to a woman, and I use them. They are they are heavy hitters. You know, woman gets a bunch of texts from me back and forth, and then they drop, and then I drop a voice note, she's like, oh, wait, wait, and she'll save that for like a special treat after the workday. She'll check her phone real quick, you know, for the text messages. But wait, no, there's there's this guy's voice because he really wants to say something to me and he wants me to hear his voice. That that has impact that goes deeper. When uh use this because most men are not, most men are shy, most men are like, I don't, I don't see why I should have to. You don't have to, but use it because it has impact. That that will make when you leave that voicemail and it's like, oh, well, I've heard this guy's voice, and these other 26 guys that message me today on the dating app, I don't know what they sound like. Well, guess what? You just became higher resolution to that woman.
SPEAKER_02:You just become a few-differentiated yourself.
SPEAKER_00:You differentiated yourself. You know, you're you know, you're the you're the job candidate that recorded a video and sent it with the resume, as opposed to here's the resume. It's it's just impact. It's it's you know, and you, you know, they had these tools there because it's part of all of our communication these days. Learn how to use them, learn how to use them effectively, and you know, and you're giving a woman a little preview, a little slice, you know, of who you are. Don't keep playing into it, you know, all the time when you have never met in person, but you know, this is part of you uh becoming provocative to her.
SPEAKER_02:Dallas, do you think it's confusing if I record that in my Cartman voice from South Park?
SPEAKER_00:If you have not already mentioned South Park as part of it, but if you're having a super playful exchange, I know you, I know that was a joke and gusting, but the truth is if you're having a super playful exchange, um well, I'll I'll give you an example of this. Emerald Sinclair. She's a female dating coach here in Denver. I collaborate with her. She tells the story about when she met her current boyfriend that she lives with. And they met at a party, they were having a lot of fun. He mentioned this thing where you know you stack the quarters on your elbow and then you catch them in midair. Yeah. She'd never seen it or done it, so she didn't completely understand. And, you know, big, big surprise, nobody has any pocket change there at the party. So the next day, rather than go, hey, it was great meeting you and sending him a text, he took a video of himself with those coins, catching them and sent them to her, and then probably said something as well in the video. Okay, what he did was he he didn't go all polite interview style. He continued the play and the exchange and the experience right there. And he, you know, and he had a mic drop video moment for her. And she, you know, she watched it, and look, she doesn't, there's no pressure on her, she could be in her jammy, she could be in the tub, doesn't matter. And she's like, Well, there's a video coming, you know, from this guy, and she watches it, and it was she knew immediately, you know, when he did that, she was like, Oh, this is my kind of guy. If you're talking about some kind of South Park stuff or being playful, and you do want to do something that's more fun and entertaining, that's just a preview for the date to come that she's going to now say yes to.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, I might create my profile with my pictures as Cartman's personality and see how many dates I get. We should I might test that one and we can we can come back and report that. And then I'll talk like Cartman and I'll act like Cartman, but I'll just have my pictures and see how many dates I get.
SPEAKER_00:I hope there is an abundance of charts and and empirical data.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, I'll write a book like Dataclysm. My you know, my life is Cartman. Okay, I digress. So let's let's let's switch over. You start you talked about about the in in-person now. Whole whole different ball game, right? Because basically, what you're doing now with your communication, 90% of this has already happened, like that we've just talked about. It has already happened because you've met the person face to face, you've had a conversation, that that vibe check has already happened. You like how she looks, she likes how you look, and then hopefully we're gonna take it from the point of you've you've asked her, like, hey, I'd love to get together, or let's go, there's this coffee shop, would you like to? And she says yes, and you got her number. Okay. So we're gonna take it from you've already done that. If you guys don't feel comfortable figuring that out, we've already recorded a bunch of podcasts and episodes about how you know called approach, how to do that, how to communicate effectively, how to dress to do it, like all that stuff. Go back and listen to that. We're gonna take it from here with you got the number, and then you walk away, and then how do you start that text communication? You know, there used to be this old school thing of like wait three to five days and communicate. I think that's BS kind of now these days, right? Maybe don't uh go in the parking lot and send the 15 messages like I did. But but you know, what's what do you start doing after that?
SPEAKER_00:Again, dude, let me clarify. So you've you've met her in real life, you have her phone number, but okay, but have you been on a date yet or no date yet? No, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, I you've met you've met you met this person, and however you met them, maybe you were at work, maybe you met them at work, maybe you met them through somebody else, maybe you called approach them, but you've got their number, you said something about getting together, and then yeah, now you need to do something. What do you do?
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, I mean, it depends a little bit on that first interaction, how much was exchanged, how much commonality was established, or did you just think she was attractive in the supermarket? You you know, you chatted her up for a minute, you got her name, you got her number, and then you, you know, you went on your way. You're gonna you're going to follow up differently, depending on that. I think it's good to follow up in a just short, close the loop. She now has your number sort of way. So, you know, hey Sarah, great to meet you. You know, hey Sarah, you know, great meeting you at the supermarket yesterday. Let me look at my schedule, you know, for what's going on next week and would love to get together with you. So notice how I kicked the can down the road and I took all the pressure off by doing that. And you can do that whenever you want, right? Like, yeah, yeah, you can do that whenever. I think, I think, I think I would probably do that. You know, if I met her in the morning, I might do that at the end of the day. Or, you know, if I met her in the second half of the day, I might wait and do that the next morning, or preferably probably afternoon. Um, what I'm doing there is I'm closing the loop. I I and what I'm doing is I'm demonstrating to her that Dallas is the kind of guy that when he says he'll do something, he does it. That's what I'm demonstrating. Because again, we have, you know, in her mind, she's like, Am I safe? Okay, this guy did what he said he would do. That's a that's a green check. That that's a good thing. I'm just giving her that green check, and then I'm actually taking the pressure off of like, yeah, and also what are you doing, you know, tomorrow night? And you know, do you want to grab a drink? That's kind of like I'm trying to do it like all in one rush, you know, of energy, all in one, all in one flow. You want to let her settle down just a minute, you want to let yourself settle down just a minute. I think that's what the three-day rule is all about, is about you don't want to feel needy, like I just got this, and if I don't make it happen in this, in this one thrust, you know, of of you know that's a bad word to use. If I don't use this in this one, in this one. No comment, no comment, no comment. You you don't want her to feel like you're trying to like make it happen now before she slips away. You no, you want to let it all settle down. You know, my clients, the word I use for this is your baseline. You want to re-establish your baseline, you know, and you say, hey, you know, let me see what's going on next week. You know, would love to would love to get together with you for whatever. You know, I need to check my schedule, I need to see what events are going on, what whatever you want to use. But I'm kicking the can down the road and I'm letting her off the hook by by telling her that. I find that that's very effective. Um, and uh let me just say for the three-day rule, I've well I'm not sure, I'm not sure how necessary it is. I've actually never seen it fail.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so there have been times that you know, I'll be at a singles event, I'll get a woman's number, and for whatever reason, you know, you know, I might text her right there on the spot, she has my number, but for whatever reason, I I don't follow up. There's a lot going on. I'm I'm I'm not sure she didn't reply to something, I don't know. But but I'll wait until the middle of next week, you know, three, four, even five days. I honestly, those messages get very fast responses.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. And I've never and I've never had one psychology around that because these polls come up for usually some some good reason, but I've never heard any kind of psychology around it that I've read.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I don't know that I don't know that this is like formal psychology, but I think it I think it's pretty well known that women love anticipation. And when I when I don't just try to follow through on the act with her of let's go out, let's do this, let's do that. And instead, I you know, I'm taking a moment coming back to my baseline, she's slowly starting to bubble up inside, well, am I gonna hear from him? Oh, there was like guy, oh, it's a shame I didn't hear from him. I was kind of hoping he would, I don't want to reach out because if I do, then he's gonna maybe think that I'm too eager. This is all the thoughts going through a woman's head, and that energy is building up inside her if she's interested. And then three, four, five days later, you're like, hey, you know, I was I was wondering if maybe you were free this weekend, you know. I really enjoyed meeting you at the event last week. Yeah, what are you up to on Friday? She's you know, after that buildup happens, she's gonna be like, Yes, hi, definitely, so good to hear from you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you even get one of those voice notes back in return that Jude hates to get.
SPEAKER_02:Just call me, damn it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I actually, I actually want to give one thing that I that I did. There was a woman that I met, you know, and it was I was I wasn't quite sure there were some complications going on. I messaged her uh after I got her number. I think it was oh, I think it was actually on the spot, and her friend was really encouraging me to ask her out. And I I sent a message, I didn't get anything back, and I think this was like a Friday night or a Saturday night. I waited until the following Wednesday, and I was waiting, just to be clear, not to message her. I was waiting for me to see if I was still thinking about her. I wanted to see if I was still interested, and that's a good reason to use this three to five day rule, is for you to re-establish your base and ask yourself, okay, was it just in the moment or is this woman still in the back of my mind? Because if she's still in the back of my of your mind, you should pursue that and see where it goes.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So I I waited and you know, and I waited and I was busy on Monday and Susan, and I, oh yeah, you know, I I do want to reach out. And so on Wednesday, I dropped a voice message from her. I got a message back within minutes of leaving that voice message. If I had just sent her a text message, that would have felt kind of passive. That would have felt like I'm waiting for her to come to the middle. And I was like, no, I'm gonna drop this. I want her to hear my voice, I want her to experience me again. And and the impact, it cut, you know, it it shot me to the top of the pile because she was like, Oh, this guy must be not just casually interested. I can hear his voice. He's reminding me, I'm suddenly I'm back in his world the way I was, you know, five days earlier. That was waiting, waiting that certain amount of time, checking in with myself, and then I use the voice note and it totally works.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. So I I think the point that I want to get that we should get across to the dads is, and you say it all the time, slow is good. Like, don't think that you need to to to rush things. So if you do meet and you get a number and you're and you do that follow-up, like, hey, looking forward to getting together, and then you wait three days, that's okay. Like, you don't have to next day. You don't have to lock this in, you don't have to like build that anticipation, allow her to to think about your conversation, and then do something unique, like the the the voice, the the voice met the what do they call it? Voice to text. Voice note. No, no, text-to-voice voice text is the technology where it types right. I think it's a voice note. Voice like a a voice note. What about a phone call at that point? Like old school, Dallas. Like we used to pick up the phone and be like, hey, you want to go out with me on Thursday at two o'clock? Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Can you still do that? Yeah. Oh, you totally can. Okay, but here's and and this is what I've realized about the voice note, which is just an audio recording you're sending her. Okay. I have had plenty of people that never check their voice mail. Uh, actually, let me back that up. Okay, it's very, very, very easy for someone not to answer a phone. The woman doesn't want that pressure of, I have to talk to this guy right now. You know, sometimes if they're super ready, eager, they know you've got a big green check mark, yes, you know, next to your name on their phone, they will answer. But a lot of times that won't be the case. And you calling is is kind of forward, and it is making a certain demand on her when you do that.
SPEAKER_02:And if and then if I see you, is that the demand? Well, is that too much of a demand? Well, especially if you've already talked to her in person, though.
SPEAKER_00:Like, okay, but we haven't met in person again. I see.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, this is you have met in person.
SPEAKER_00:We're yeah, yeah, you've met in person, but you haven't had a date yet.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay. Again, I want to give a woman every opportunity to warm up in her time and feel safe according to her rules, not mine. My rules do not apply to this situation. I mean, they do on my end. You know, I'm not gonna do like four video calls that are, you know, 20 minutes each. Like, I'm not gonna do that. That's my rule. But I'm not gonna set rules around what she needs to feel safe. And so, you know, and and what I want is to give her a gift. I want to entice her, you know, and that's what I'm doing. Now, if I if I make that phone call, there is, I think, social expectation of the other person to pick up, and she has to be kind of like, oh, I'm not going to, I'm gonna hang up on him. You know, like there's a little bit of her having to be in a place that she doesn't that where it's a little bit stressful inside of her. And the voicemail is the same thing as the voice note. So I'm just bypassing the stress on her end of ringing her phone. I'm jumping right into the voicemail message that we are all planning to leave anyway, as a dude, because he's probably not gonna pick up in a lot of these situations. So that's just the voice note. It's just a voicemail where I where I said, you know what, honey, you don't have to pick up the phone. I'm not making that demand of you. This is a gift, this is a one sided, completely gratuitous something. I just want you to hear my voice and what I have to say. Here it is.
SPEAKER_02:Can then so can a phone call be kind of a a vibe check for for you? If if somebody is not comfortable enough to be able to pick up a phone and have a brief Like less than like the vice versa, like what you were talking about with the the the woman wanting to have a vibe check with you and can he articulate and speak in full sentences and does he have all of his teeth, right? Like, like same thing with a phone call. Is she of the type of personality that can pick up the phone and talk for five minutes or less? You're not gonna be going on about your family and talking about stuff. You're just gonna like, hey, so she doesn't know that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, she doesn't know that this is only gonna be a five-minute phone call. She doesn't know that if you just call her.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, she also as a guy you want to talk about like your lineage and and all that.
SPEAKER_00:She doesn't know. That's the thing. And women don't want to walk into situations where they don't know, they want to walk into situations where they feel safe. And that phone call is an unknown situation. She doesn't know. She doesn't want what if you what if she quote unquote says the wrong thing, it tips you off, you start yelling at her, and she has to hang up. Okay, that that is a very stressful place for a woman to be in.
SPEAKER_02:Of course. This seems like such like we've we've diminished things to such a low bar. Like, I don't feel like a phone call is really that like that stressful and anxiety inducing that you're gonna need a therapy session after if it really goes wrong. It just really seems like in our society it's gotten to like lowest com and that's why we're on the maps and doing it that way. Like lowest common. I understand everything and I agree with everything you're saying. Um, like a hundred percent, but like at this point, like how much further are we gonna digress down? And and maybe this is just a rhetorical question that we can't answer. Like a phone call does not seem like that big of a deal to me.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so let me let me reframe this. Back in the day, phone calls were the only way to communicate with each other. And this episode is about all the tons of different ways that we can now communicate with people. Right. We we used to call when because we couldn't text, and we used to call or text because we couldn't leave that voice note, which is actually like a voicemail because someone didn't pick up, and we had to get in person because we didn't have the video calls. Well, look, rather than everything being stacked up in the phone call category the way it used to be, we've spread it out over a lot of different mediums. The the channels of communication have simply changed. Now, back to your point about her being comfortable with a phone call. Now, I would say you've been out on two or three dates, go right ahead and call her. I would say you want to integrate that into it. And if she has a problem being on the phone, okay, that's something about her as a person, because she's seen you a couple times. You know, like there should be some trust that's established there. You know, it similarly would be uh, you know, you've been on a few dates. Is she comfortable with you picking her up on that date? You know, or is she like, no, no, no, I can't, you know, I can't do that. I I, you know, but but you have to give the woman a chance. Again, let me paint a picture. I'm a five foot, I'm let me just let me paint this picture. I am a five foot two petite woman, and Jude is approaching me who is over six feet tall, and he seems really nice. Again, emphasis on seems really nice. And he asks me for my number, he's making me laugh, you know. But gosh, you know, I've had I've had toxic boyfriends in my past. I've had guys that like harass me. I have guys like they get my number and they're doing it, and I'm taking a chance here by giving this guy my number, you know, and I don't know what he's gonna have to do with it, you know. And it's like I like him and I want to trust him, but like I've been burned and really messed up, you know. Like, okay, do I want that guy calling me or do I want that guy just giving me a voice that I can listen to and relax into and go, yeah? Okay, like like that's the position that women are in. We have to appreciate this.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's time for a rule. Okay, because yeah, like Jews gotta have rules. So the rule is don't call, right? Like, use the the the voice in this circumstance, like you haven't been out yet, you just met her. Use the the voice notes, don't make a phone call because if the voice notes gonna serve the same purpose, like I talked about before, with the meeting as as a vote as opposed to a vibe check. It's gonna serve the same purpose as a call, but it's going to potentially create the circumstances and the comfort zone that she feels where she can either call back if she does feel comfortable, or text back if she wants to do it that route.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that yeah, that that is a good rule. My rule, I well, I it's not it's it's not a rule, it's the there are two ingredients to create the chemistry magic with a woman. The first ingredient is safety first, okay. Nothing can happen nowhere, no how with no woman until she feels and experiences a deep sense of safety. And when somebody says, Well, you should be able to just talk on the phone, that's making a demand of her. That is not giving her a sense of safety. She needs to experience a safety and she needs time to open up and relax into that safety. Especially if you are a beast of a man and you've got your game on and you're attractive, and she's like, Can I trust this guy? You know, I mean, it seems like he could ask out any woman he wants, you know, or you know, the this we have to we have to allow, and what a woman needs for safety, unfortunately, is not going to be the same as the woman next to her and the woman next to her and the woman next to her. It is going to be different, and that's why I'm saying we have to be flexible, understanding, chill, and at the yo, give, you know, certain women need this, other women need that. Be, you know, and this isn't jumping through hoop hoops. This is saying, check, I got that in my go bag as a man. No problem. I can talk on the phone, I can do a video call, I can leave a note, I can do this, I can do that. You're just showing her that you're well-rounded and competent in all these areas. And when she knows you're competent and cool and chill about it, she's gonna be like, Oh, I feel safe around him. And that's where things start to open up.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So so, yeah, the I I understand all that. It's just like deciphering all that and figuring it out with a woman in real time is like absolutely frustrating. And it's a dance. It is it is no, it's like a calculus freaking problem, Alice. It's not a it's well stop trying to figure out then. Like trying to well, trying to understand what she what she needs. Like, if you can't call, you can call, you do a voice note, she is responding, she's not responding. Like some of the like the next ones is well, like if you don't get a response, do you do you wait? Is that ghosting? She's likely a mom, so she's probably busy. Some grace, like like we talk about. How do you follow up with that? How long before you follow up with that? And like, what are some follow-ups to to this? If you kind of feel like you've gone, like, oh, maybe this isn't working. How do I redirect? And what do I what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay, really, really, really good questions that go through damn near every single guy's mind all the time. And the and the the emotional state we get into is the one that you just labeled, frustration. Right. Frustration, though, is a huge turn off to women. So we have to reframe that. We have to, we have to look at it a different way. Rather be because most of the statements used you just said were questions about her. Is she this? What does she want? How does this? I'm she, she, she, her, her, her. That's a dependent mindset revealed through my my sentence patterns. My neurolingucming about myself is revealing itself as being more centered on her, which is needy, rather than me being centered on myself saying, Well, I invited her out this weekend and I haven't heard back. I'm going to move on. I'm I'm going, you know, I'm still thinking about her three days later. She didn't reply to me in the messages I sent in that event. That's okay. I'm going to drop a voice note and see if that goes forward. I'm going to make from a grounded-centered place my invitations, and I'm going to wait and see how she responds to my invitations. Okay. Period. So full stop. Let me just say this. I am not trying to figure her out.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Well, so well, but that's a little bit different than what you were saying beginning in the beginning, because you're saying that everybody's got something, every woman has a different way in which they want to do it. And being flexible and under and just being, you know, having grace around that so that she can find the way to do that. The she the challenge though, Dallas, is as we know, women don't communicate that uh quite effectively, right? So they might know. So if we're trying making the invitations, like you said, that's all we can do. Like we can't, like, we can just try make the invitations, how we feel comfortable with making the invitations. They might be wrong, uh, and she might be comfortable with it, but that's incumbent upon her then to say, hey, can we have a phone call or can we do a face call or whatever? Like, you can't be figured trying to figure out what it is that she needs in order to entice her. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's what I just want to be. I would just want to be clear because yes, what I described to you is frustration because I hear it all the time from guys, right? Like, well, I don't understand, I don't understand. And what you said earlier was trying to understand what it is she needs. We just want to be clear that guys, you it continue to lead from your masculine frame by making invitations. Yeah, and so maybe you try something different, and if it doesn't work, then you just then you pretty much have your answer then. Because if she wants to see you, if she wants to spend time with you, yeah, she is going to react, even if it's not the perfect way for you to exactly for her to do it, or that you needed to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, here's the thing her response is her communication. You're saying, you know, that we know women don't communicate. Well, they're they are communicating, they're just not communicating verbally, consciously on a level. She's communicating by how she responds to you. This you know, and this applies in the you know, in the early invitations when you get a number you haven't had a date. This applies all the way to the bedroom. She communicates by how she responds to you. She's not going to well, dude, can you touch me here and can you do this? And will you hold me for 18 minutes before we then begin to take off my clothes? Like she's not gonna say that. And really, do you want her to say that? Do you want her up in her head? No, right. You want, you need to, as a man, be grounded in yourself, make the invitations, and then her response that is her communication. That tells you what you need to know. And maybe try some different invitations. If your interest level in her is high enough, make some other invitations and see where she goes with it. See how she responds to it. And if she isn't responding, dude, stop spending your energy on it. And and here's the other thing: we're shooting in the dark, and she knows that. She knows that we don't know what her favorite place to go is for ice cream. She knows that we don't know everything about her, she knows this. Women cut a slack, most of them anyway, cut a slack for not reading their minds and knowing, well, actually, I love to go to, you know, like rooftop hotel bars and do this and that's like most of them, most of them know that, and they're willing to be adaptive as long as we are making a good faith invitation. If we are getting frustrated, though, realize that frustration is because we're not getting the response that we're expecting and wanting from them. That is not an invitation. That is a exactly, yeah. And and that's the thing I want to point out like that is when you're getting into a frustrated place, why isn't she? Guys, you we're being dependent on her behavior, not a sexy place, not the place a woman wants to be. Uh, you know, because that you know, you're you were having that in the beginning. She doesn't think that's going to suddenly stop once you guys are exclusive or once you guys are sleeping together. We gotta start out on the right foot. We make an invitation, we see the response, and we adjust accordingly. That's why we call this a dance.
SPEAKER_02:Got it. Okay. All right. So we're almost running out of time, and I want to just run through a few more scenarios. I think we did a really good job of both dating app and in real life and like how to communicate up to the effect of communication in getting securing the day, securing the dates and communicating around that. Now, I want to just talk about like we did talk a little bit about uh about follow-up also, but like frequency and and pacing. We're busy dads, and oftentimes we'll get messages in, and we're talking, you know, whether it's a phone call or a text message or an email or or something. Like what is the like like I call it the the the batching rule? Like maybe you get something of you know, I like rules, right? You know, it's better to send like maybe one thoughtful text at the end of the day, hey, I got your message, I've been really busy today. You know, maybe we can schedule a time to talk, or maybe we can go out tomorrow and catch up or or or whatever. Is that fair communication? Just because we are dads, like there's times between work and kids and like everything that's going on, like I literally just I don't have time. Or is it better to be like, hey, just want to recognize that you sent me a message. I'm so busy today, I'll follow up with you tomorrow, or we'll chat tomorrow, or something like that. How do you how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_00:It when it's in the early stages when you haven't even been on a first date yet. I mean, people are busy, we don't know each other. I think you started to maybe have a date or a couple dates.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. So once you've had a couple of dates, I think the idea is you need to communicate effectively what your reality is like and to set proper expectations, you know. And, you know, because some people they've got their phone with them and they text back, you know, always within, you know, five to thirty minutes. You know, they're they're just like that. They have a job that allows them to do that. Other people are my phone is off and in my bag because I am out making sales calls and driving all day, and I just I can't do that. Um, I you know, different people have different things and and uh different demands that they have on a daily basis. I think helping her share and know what to expect from you. Again, this this is women want to know what to expect. You know, it's like, okay, well, I you know, I can't hear from Jude, but Jude, by the way, I like to get, you know, a message from you in the evening just saying goodnight, touching bass. If I go two or three days, it makes me freak out inside as a woman. Okay, you want to be sensitive to that and you know, communicate with her. You know, look, I can't text message you that much in the day, but definitely in the evening you can always count on hearing from me. And then she does hear from you. You're setting expectations and you're finding a way that the communication can work between the two of you. Some people want to communicate all day long. And you know, I've I've heard therapy sessions where it's like, well, he, you know, he never responds, and she's upset that he isn't responding within the hour while he's at work, and he has a job that doesn't allow him to do it. Well, that's a that that's an issue on her end, you know. It's it's perfectly fine. And and I think it's this is your masculine frame is you need to set you tell the world what to expect from you. You tell the world how you're going to engage with it. You show up and say that you know, this is how I do this. I I don't do 30-minute video calls on a dating app, I do five-minute video calls on a dating app. And if the world, you know, and for the most part, and I think this is the thing that a lot of a lot of people and men don't understand is the world is ready to accept you telling it how it's gonna be. And and when you you know, the world is just like, well, but the reason it doesn't is because we haven't communicated to the world how it's gonna be, what to expect from us. Set those expectations and and again embrace them positively. This isn't like, oh, I can't, it's really hard when you're saying it's like, no, like, look, I'm really focused on whatever I'm doing during the day. I give my full attention to the people when I'm with them. I'm not going, I don't check my phone when I'm with somebody. And when I'm with clients, I don't check my phone that this is this is a rule that I have. This is how I am. The how is that how is a woman not going to respect that? You know, as long as you then close the loop with her and and provide the the the communication.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe she doesn't like that and maybe that doesn't work, and then that's gonna be fine. She's gonna let you know, and or you're gonna let her know that that's just not something you you can do. You can't you can't trade uh text message conversations throughout a full day while you're working, taking care of the kids, doing all the all the stuff. So that just comes in where when then when you're learning about each other through the relationship and understanding how each other communicates and what your needs are. Yeah, right. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When I'm yeah, when I'm with my kids, I'm a hundred percent with my kids. I do not check my phone. Um right. I mean, a woman that's like, oh, well, that that doesn't seem like the way it should be. Yeah, you can you could the door's over there, you can check out because you're not understanding the value of my connection with my children. Yeah, present yourself to the world the way you are and let the world for the most part accept it. Right. And for the when when it doesn't, it doesn't. Right.
SPEAKER_02:So what about emojis and periods? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I didn't wait. Which periods are we talking about here?
SPEAKER_02:No, no, like a period at the end of a sentence. Punctuation, punctuation, yeah. Well, period, like actually, so apparently this is a thing, and I didn't know it, especially with like millennials, is that that is like overly rigid, like so, and then and then sometimes the emojis apparently mean you're much more emotional, like yeah, so and so like this seems like a whole like it is, it is like a communication, like like a language that I don't like. Sometimes I yeah, like I have just learned that you write in full sentences and use proper grammar and quite and I use commas after where they're supposed to be commas and periods at the end, and then but I do use emojis too, so that maybe that's real, maybe that's my problem, Dallas, is like I've really confused the feminine population because I do text in full sentences with proper grammar and punctuation, but I do use a lot of emojis, so I can see why that maybe is confusing people.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, okay. Rich, this is actually a very rich topic. You and I fall into the same camp. I also write in complete sentences, capitalize, punctuation in the middle and at the end. I do use emojis to a certain extent. Emerald and I actually uh we just recorded a podcast episode that's going to be airing probably in March about men's emojis and how to use them effectively and not and what do you do with it? For the most part, you want to use emojis. The the short, short version is use them uh less than she does, use them sparingly and have a few that are kind of your go-tos. The sunglass emoji thumbs up are good, particularly as a reaction to her message. The upside down smiley face is a good one. Uh, if you use them all the time, or you know, as much or more than she does, yes, you are gonna come off as rather emotional. That's just that's just the style and the feel of it. I would say look at her amount of emojis and you know, dial it back, I don't know, 30 to 60 percent from where she is, something like that. So if she uses none, you should not use any either. Well, no, I'm so okay. So then the emoji becomes more of a punch. So it's like, well, screw this. I'm not interested in having a completely dry text conversation. I'm going to go ahead and throw in this ironic emoji, you know, to like do a mic drop moment or something. Um, I do the same thing with words, I write in full sentences, punctuation, all that stuff. And then sometimes I will just drop something that's completely improper because it breaks the pattern of how I have been messaging and that has a huge impact.
SPEAKER_02:Like a picture of Cartman.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yes. If you're Jude and you're conducting research on your online dating ads, and a picture of Cartman.
SPEAKER_02:There you go.
SPEAKER_00:Why you are still single is beyond me, dude. It's beyond me. I know. Every woman asks me that. I'm like, I don't know, I don't have any idea. Maybe you can ask Dallas. Listen to our show. So, so uh that that's the short version of what it is with punctuation, but I'm gonna bring it back to again the idea of there isn't a right or wrong way. I know I said adapt to her level of emojis, and I do feel that that helps the two of you sort of stay in sync. That also often goes with frequency of communication. A woman will communicate to you how often or not often you know she'd like to talk on the phone or with text messages, she'll kind of show you that pace, and we want to respond accordingly in a way that's effective for both of us. Yeah, there, yeah, but you write in complete sentence, you write in complete sentences, you tell the world this is the kind of guy that I am. Dallas, I'm the kind of guy that I wear dress shoes when I'm on a date, unless, you know, unless there's a good reason otherwise. I usually wear button-up shirts. I write in complete sentences. I like this is me presenting myself to the world. I'm right, I'm not going to, I'm not going to hide it because some millennial thinks, oh, well, you're out of date. And I'm like, well, yeah, and I think you don't show respect. I mean, like, it's like there's different points of view on this.
SPEAKER_02:It's just all it's all feedback, right? We talk about it before. It's all it's all feedback. You put out if you're in your masculine frame and you're who you are, and you've done the work to understand what your values and beliefs are, and you put your life together, and then you put that out there, you're gonna get you're gonna get the feedback. Not all feedback is. Is going to be like, oh, you're the best, Dallas. Oh, you're the best, dude. Right? Like, no, you're not. You're just not going to get that. But that's not a bad thing. Actually, I would contend that that's a good thing. Yeah. Because that means that you are different and that you are unique. And so there's going to be that's going to rub people wrong sometimes. And wrong, but just not be their cup of tea.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it could be something that is different about you. Maybe they're teasing you about it, but maybe they secretly like it. Maybe they actually like it. And over time, they're like, you know what? I love that Dallas actually takes the time, you know, even though he's I'm doing speech to text, I'm actually saying, you know, hey there, comma. So and such and such. You know, and then I go, and then I go back and proofread what I wrote before I send it because the phone doesn't always get it right. You know, question mark, it actually puts the words question and space in the or comma.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I know, makes me crazy. That's funny. Okay. We're running really long. Okay. Did you want to make a point? Nope. Go for it. Okay. We're running really long, but I did want to just hit on the ghosting and the slow fade of communication that that starts to happen, right? The the no response response, what do you do? You know, the the the dad standard of breaking up if you're not feeling it, what do you say? And then those two, like those, those kind of two things. When when you start to feel her like starting to not respond or fade away, and when you start to be like, yeah, like you said, I'm not thinking about you, and it's been a weight.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so when she's starting to fade away, you feel like you know it's kind of drifting or something, make bold invitations, strong invitations. Don't go subtle. You know, leave a voice note, and you have you hadn't left them for a while. Invite her out to, hey, you know, there's this concert I really want to go to. Would you like to come with me? Not like, hey, would you like to grab another drink? Like make it, make it a bold invitation to see how she responds to it. If she doesn't respond to it, the question I would ask myself is, do I want to keep pouring energy into a person that is not reciprocating it? And the answer most of the time is going to be no, I don't.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, and if she's fading off, you know, and she's not responding to you. I mean, yeah, it's nice to get closure, but dude, you you're you're getting the information you need. Is she filling up your tank or is she draining your energy? If she's draining your energy and she doesn't want to give you quote unquote closure, dude, just let her wander off. Like you already know what you need to know that she's not giving you what you need. That's your closure. And ultimately, you know, in relationships, we have to find our own closure. It's not really with the other person that we get it. Um anybody who's dealt with their parents knows that. When it when it comes the other way around, where you have, yeah, where you're not really feeling it. Okay, so like I if it's super early, you've only been on one date and it's just high or whatever, you know, I don't worry about it. If she asks you out and you're not feeling it, do the girl a favor and just say, look, you know, I appreciate the invitation, but I'm just not really feeling the connection. You know, I wish you the best of luck. If you've been dating and you know, doing stuff and everything, you know, and you're again not really feeling it, and you feel like she wants more energy from you that you're doing it, heal her. Make her complete again. She is opening herself, she is inviting you in that as a precious resource. You know, be a good camper and leave the campsite better than you found it when you rolled up.
SPEAKER_02:What does that sound like, Dallas?
SPEAKER_00:It's so it's like, look, you know, I really, you know, you know, I've I've I've really appreciated getting to know you. I don't feel like this, I don't feel like this is the right fit for me. Or you can say what women say to us a lot of the time is like, you know, I really, I would really rather just be friends. Which is again transitioning and you're removing the romantic, you know, element, but you're you're telling her no in you know in ways that can give her closure. And she's not just like, oh, did he just want her off? Is he is he just sleeping with somebody else? And is he gonna come back and want to have sex with me again? Like where what what's happening here? You know, you know, be a be a be a responsible camper and pack it up and give her back to herself, you know, and and it can be hard because who doesn't like to get uh attention and affection and know that they're desired? Like everybody does. But don't be that person that drains other people's batteries just to feed you selfishly when you're not really reciprocating. Step up, do the hard thing, you know, and and you know, I think we mentioned this in another episode. You know, you be the one to exit the situation, leave her in a warm place, leave her in shelter. You're the one that wants to leave, get in your car and have to drive home because you're the man that faces nature the way it is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and maybe we need to do a a whole episode on how to do that, right? Because that's a delicate, really delicate balance. And you brought up, well, if it's only a a couple or a few dates, yeah, saying something like, Hey, I just am not feeling it, and I really appreciate the time we spend. If it's more than that, probably entails having a face-to-face conversation where you need to do some things, make her feel comfortable, hopefully have it be where she feels comfortable and you can exit, uh, like some some stuff uh around that. So there's a lot of nuance to to that if you're going, if you're gonna do it in a mature manner, which I hope everybody listening is gonna do, because we've all had it go down the opposite way where they either ghost or or just say, Hey, I'm not interested anymore, and that just feels like shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and let's just say ghosting is for cowards. Yeah, ghosting is for particular, yeah, particularly for when we're talking about men. Ghosting is for men that cannot deal with conflict. I if you can't deal with conflict, you're not a man, you're a coward. Full stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yep, yeah. I think that's a that's a good way to end it. Do not ghost. That's just that's that's stupid and childish. And if you're if you're ghosting somebody, you need to stop dating, reassess, do the work that we talk about before, your values and everything else. Maybe spend some time in some therapy and and and mature yourself a little bit. Um, no kidding, though. Seriously, like if you're doing that, that's there's seriously something that's that's just yeah, that's just not the the right way to act. Okay. Well, we'll we'll we'll leave it on we'll leave it on that high note. Um I do want to put a challenge out there though, Dallas, to to any of the dads that are listening, and I'm calling it the one tax challenge. So you've listened to a lot of us, a lot of what we've like what we've talked about and a lot of Dallas's advice, which is always really great. I want you guys to get out of your head and and not overthink this. But if there's somebody that you've been maybe dating, or you've got a number of or you're interested in, I want you to send that one text this week. It could be just something like, hey, I've been thinking of you, or hey, let's do this again. Like, or we had such a great time, let's do it. Like, don't overthink it, just do it. And then you know, send us messages, comments, or or whatever, or join us next week, the 19th of February at the View House here in Centennials, just south of uh Denver metro uh area. We're gonna do uh an in-person QA with Dallas there. You can go to thedivorcedavicate.com and check out the events page uh for all the information on that. And then yeah, what else, Dallas?
SPEAKER_00:That's it, man. Just want to see all the guys you know coming out to uh to interact in person. And I'm just gonna add a little bit of a challenge. If you're cool texting, you you know, this isn't a challenge for you, and you haven't listed any voice notes for somebody, that should be your stretch. Leave your first voice note and even ask for later mine, I guess. Later, later, later down the road, you know, not right after you send it, but later and you're on a date and you're like, So by the way, I left that voice note. How did that how did that land? Did you like it? Get the feedback. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:That's my that's my challenge, Dallas. I got my challenge now from this episode, too. So thank you. All right. Great, as always, Dallas. Appreciate it. And gentlemen, if you found some value in what uh what we shared and all Dallas's pearls of wisdom, please give us a star rating on whatever podcast platform or wherever you're listening, even better. Give us a write a brief comment that just helps proliferate the podcast and and helps get dads more of the information that they need to uh have a successful relationship post divorce, which is our all of our ultimate goals is to have a healthy and healthy and fun and excellent relationship. So Dallas, next week we'll talk to you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, dude. Talk to you next week. Bye.
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