REFS NEED LOVE TOO
An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.
REFS NEED LOVE TOO
Mastering Game Management: Insights from FIFA Referee Ismail Elfath
Join us for a captivating conversation with Ismail Elfath, a FIFA International Referee who has officiated matches on the world stage. Throughout the episode, Ismail outlines the critical skills of game management and the significance of body language and authority in establishing respect from players. He shares personal stories and advice that showcase what it means to be not just a referee, but a figure of stability on the pitch.
Listeners will gain insight into the balance required to assert authority while maintaining empathy—essential for successful officiating. Ismail illustrates this through discussions on his early experiences, the importance of mentorship, and the critical lessons learned through years of dedication. Additionally, he recounts a heartwarming moment when he officiated a game for his son, providing a unique perspective on the emotional ties that exist in sports officiating.
Whether you’re a seasoned referee, a newcomer, or just a fan of the game, this episode offers impactful advice and touching stories. After listening, connect with us on social media to share your thoughts or favorite moments from the podcast. Together, let’s keep the conversation going about the vital role of referees in sports!
What an amazing podcast we have planned for you. Today we are going to be interviewing Ismail Elfath, fifa international referee Absolutely unbelievable. This was such an inspiring conversation and one I've been looking forward to a long time. Before I get in there, I got a quick letter from the mailbag. It's not a quick letter, but it's a phenomenal letter that I want to read to you. And then, of course, just a quick shout out to some of our sponsors Again.
Speaker 1:First and foremost, on the sponsors Refersports. I'm not sure I'd be doing this podcast right now it wasn't for the support of Refersports. They are fantastic. It is an assigning platform built for referees by referees, again native on a mobile app, so to use all the information you need to have in one place. They handle 25 different sports, so if your thing is hockey and soccer and volleyball, you name it, it's all in one. Refer it to your assigner. Let them know, especially if they're using just email or some other crappy tool. It is free for assigner. Let them know, especially if they're using just email or some other crappy tool. It is free for assigner to use Refersports. Check it out online, r-e-f-r. Tell them that I sent you. Next up, guys Piro, we need to support this brand.
Speaker 1:This is a brand of referee footwear made by a national referee Nassau referee, national referee coach, leland Grant. He created these shoes as a referee so he could have one pair of footwear no matter what the field conditions are. The updated Umpiro Pros are what I wear every single time I step on the pitch and they're fantastic. They look good, I feel confident and I can do multiple games with them, which I certainly couldn't do with my cleats. I'd be in pain for the next three or four days. Check them out. They're for sale on officialsportscom. Use my code, refsneedlove2, the whole thing together, and it gives you 10% off. It is a deal. My Hoka's cost like $169. Now my running shoes I wear when I have refs with them. These with my code, I think it's 106 bucks when you use it. Use code. Refs need love too. Please support this brand and they'll continue to develop great stuff for us.
Speaker 1:Lastly, real quick ref six again, huge. I love them. I would use their app whether or not they were a sponsor of mine. But, my gosh, it is the best timer out there and keeping time of a match is a big deal. Knowing about the stoppage time, how much time is remaining. How much time is elapsed being able to keep score or cards actually on your watch, as opposed to on cards as well? Maybe your pen dies or something of that nature. Maybe you forget to bring your pen onto the pitch, which has happened to me before.
Speaker 1:It's nice to have an electronic backup as well, and then all of the stats afterwards. I love it. I love seeing my heat map. I love seeing my runs. I did a duel last week for high school and it is so fascinating watching my runs in a duel as opposed to when I'm working in a three referee system as the center. It's just really cool. On that one, guys use the code REFSNEEDLOVE Just those first 12 letters, all cap, and it will give you 10% off monthly and annual plan. All right.
Speaker 1:Now for the letter from the mailbag. And I have to tell you again I get messages, and when I say I get messages, I get 20, 30, 40 messages a day, but every now and then someone will take the time to write me a really beautiful email. I call it a letter, but it's digital. It's a digital letter and I'm so moved sometimes that I just want to be able to read them for you. So this is one of them here from Scott Smith, and I just I love hearing from you guys, whatever it is. Just if you want to communicate with me, shoot me a message at refsneedlovetoo at gmailcom.
Speaker 1:It may take me a few days to respond. It may take me a week to respond, okay, especially on social media, on TikTok and Instagram. But I promise you, I read every single one, I try and reply to every single one. The only ones I don't reply to is when someone sends me a play that's already been sent to me like 50 times. Like I've already replied 50 times. I just got to move on. But if you're sending me something that you're proud of, you're excited about, or you just want to tell me about, shoot me a message. Man, I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:All right, here's his letter. He writes hi, david, over the last few months, I have been turned on to your different pieces of content and I do have to say that I really enjoy your takes on the world of officiating. I feel like there are a lot of things that we could talk about, but I really want to share one from this past fall that I think is a bit relevant to the current referee shortage but produced a one-of-a-kind parenting moment. Oh, I'm going to stop right there. Those are two favorite things right there Parenting moments. Talking about referees, yes, okay, all right, here we go.
Speaker 1:A little background first. I just came back to refereeing soccer after quite a few years away, because my stepdaughter wanted to get into the family business. My wife is a basketball official and I am a ref for both basketball and boys lacrosse. Honestly, I got out back in 2005, after officiating soccer for 20 years, because the assigning was absolute madness. This was a time before smartphones, so you'd be getting emails from assigners and, unless you had the type of job where you're sitting at a computer all day or had access to your personal email all the time, you would log on to your email account and be welcomed by six emails from five assigners for games happening at the same time. It was horribly done and I had enough. But now, as a parent, I'm back, as there is a drastic shortage of officials, which leads to situations like this one last fall.
Speaker 1:My son plays U9 travel as a seven-year-old and, being an official, I can see when his games are covered or not. On more than one occasion I have had to step into Ref's game because it just wasn't able to be covered or the official simply didn't show up. It leads to this song and dance. As to whether I should, as a parent, go talk to the coaches and see if they would like me to bail them out so the kids can play. After doing this dance twice already last fall one afternoon I see that my son's game for the next day is not covered by an official. I contacted the assigner and essentially asked for the game and, being so short on reps, he gave me the game. So before the game I explained what the situation was to both coaches and that I just decided to step up so the kids could play.
Speaker 1:Now my son loves soccer. He watches games with me all the time and is pretty much obsessed. We go to pro games when we can and even got to see Messi in person last fall. He is improving as a player he's talking about his son, not Messi here and spent a good portion of his summer hitting side volleys in the garage door, the couch and the net in the yard. He really worked at it and improved Early in the game.
Speaker 1:My son's team earned a corner kick and he set up at the top of the penalty area to be a threat and I was in position to see everything more towards the corner of the penalty area. At that age the kids have no idea where a corner is going to wind up. But this was a good one. Into the box. In fact it was going right to my son, who took the ball off his chest and half volleyed the ball, just like he practiced all summer in the left side netting. It was a screamer, a golazo. I was maybe 10 feet from him when he struck the ball. I had drifted over just to get the best look I could at anything that might happen and I got to see my son score this amazing goal from 10 feet to his left. Once he realized that it was going in the net, his face lit up with pure joy as he ran back toward midfield, his arms outstretched like a bird, his teammates mobbing him. I got to see that up close from the field. No one ever gets that except me during the referee shortage. The shortage, in its weird way, gave me this moment as a dad that I'll never forget. I wanted to give him a high five or a hug because I was super proud of him, but I kept my composure and professionalism. I did, however, let him type his own name into my game report and hit the submit button himself. Keep up the good work. Sincerely, scott A Smith. What an amazing story.
Speaker 1:I have had to step in sometimes for my son's matches. I never did a referee like center referee or like his main team at the highest level. I had it at some lower levels when he was like just filling in. We both got called in at the last second and someone didn't show up and I stepped up to do it, of course, telling the coaches hey, my kid's on that team, we want to play this game. We need someone. I'm here for you. Just trust me on this one.
Speaker 1:I've done a number of assistant referee assignments. I one time had an assistant referee assignment. No joke, they literally called me as I was about to leave to go watch my son. He had rode to the game with my wife and I grabbed my referee bag and ran out of the house, forgetting to bring my referee Shoot. I think I had like sandals on at the time. They called me like the slides and so I literally did the game. It was 90 degrees, the turf was like 105 and I did it in my socks. It was hilarious, but it is a cool perspective. But you got to maintain your professionalism. Just really awesome. I just love the letter.
Speaker 1:All right, well now, guys, I hope you enjoyed that and let's get into today's podcast with Ismael Elfaf talking about game management and presence on the pitch. Hello and welcome to the Refs Need Love Too podcast, the show that gives you a real raw behind the scenes view of one of the hardest jobs on the pitch the referee. I'm your host, david Gerson, a grassroots referee and certified mentor with over 10 years of experience and over 1,300 matches under my belt. You can find me at refsneedlovetocom, on Instagram, tiktok and now on YouTube. Today we have a very special guest on YouTube. Today we have a very special guest we are going to be interviewing pro and FIFA referee all the way from Argentina, ismail Elfaf.
Speaker 1:Ismail's journey from a young soccer fan in Morocco to one of the most respected referees in the world is a testament to hard work and passion for the game.
Speaker 1:After moving to the United States, he pursued a career in officiating, making his Major League Soccer debut in 2012. His talent and poise on the field quickly propelled him to the international stage, earning FIFA accreditation in 2016. Since then, he's officiated some of the biggest matches in global soccer, including games at the FIFA World Cup and other prestigious tournaments. Many people remember him dabbing up a player right before giving him a second yellow and a red card and sending him off. He's widely regarded for his ability to handle intense situations with authority and fairness. Twice he has been named MLS Referee of the Year. His experience and leadership continue to make an impact on the game, setting a high standard for referees around the year. His experience and leadership continue to make an impact on the game, setting a high standard for referees around the world. Personally, he is the referee I most admire, ismael. Thank you so much for joining us here on the podcast today.
Speaker 2:David, thank you for having me. It's a big pleasure to be with you and all the fans.
Speaker 1:I tell you, man, no joke. When I started this thing, like two and a half years ago, I tell you, man, no joke. When I started this thing, like two and a half years ago, I dreamed of the day I'd be having this conversation, and that is not a lie. So you're excited.
Speaker 2:You're too kind. Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's fantastic. All right, ismael, you've earned a reputation of calm and confidence on the pitch. Your body language, your nonverbal cues seem to play like a huge role in your game management. How conscious of you of that, like your posture, your gestures and the impact that they have on players' perceptions of you, or your ability to manage the game.
Speaker 2:Very conscious, especially as you learn from every game I watch. We're trained to watch our games those of us that are diligent about improvements and never being content. You always watch your game and you don't watch whether the decision was right or wrong. You also watch why and what led up to it and how it gets accepted, and you start to get into details. That early on your mentors, your coaches, will tell you hey, did you think about what that interaction would have been like if you were side to side versus face to face?
Speaker 2:And now you're watching the game and not just my game, other games and I go man that would have been different if he was three feet to the left or one foot to the right, or if the palm was open or closed or patient, so very conscious of it from a learning standpoint. However, you have to practice enough so that it becomes almost subconscious when you're performing, and that's where you want to arrive at. Yes, when you try something for the first time, you're acting it out, but if you do it long enough, in the heat of the moment, it just becomes who you are, and that's how it played out for me. It's a continuous improvement and hopefully by now, most of what I do is just very organic and natural and not acted out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's the what people talk about the 10,000 hours to become great at something. But it's the the work you've put in, not just practicing, but practicing the right things, the right ways. And so when it does come time to perform, it looks natural. People think, oh, that's natural, that's just the way it is. No, you've worked really hard over a long period of time. So how do you practice that, like that piece of the game Again, that posture and those mannerisms you're talking about? Do you just apply it in the match? Is there anything else you do to build that early?
Speaker 2:in my career I went through the normal phases of learning where at first you try to imitate someone and then you realize quickly that, okay, okay, I cannot be that, but I can be some of it. So the performance that we do is a compilation of, I would say, 70% who you are as a person off the field and you cannot change that. So if you are a referee that players perceive as whatever you can describe it talkative, firm, whatever it is you have to preserve some of that and make it work for your situations and only adapt some of it. The problem comes when someone tries to completely change who they are and it's very hard to do because in the heat of the moment you default to who you are. So for me it's been an adjustment Early on. I'll try to be like so-and-so and then very quickly realize, okay, that doesn't work because he's five foot eight, I'm six foot four or the vice versa, and what he or she did does not work for me. Or it works for me today with this player, but it does not work tomorrow for this other player. So this accumulation of learning lets you know how to pick up that interaction and make the best of it, and that really comes with reputation.
Speaker 2:I think you mentioned it, david. That comes with reputation. And the mistake that I made early on some referees are still making now is they try to rush it. They try to rush it. I'm like you can't. You have to go through the, you have to go through the mistake, you have to go through the games. So that's why it's a very important requirement. In US soccer, I believe it's still the case where you cannot move from grade to grade until you have at the time it was 100 games at a particular level. I don't know if it's still the case 100 games you learn, so that's been the case for me just through repetition and adjustment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fascinating a question that comes up, and I get asked about this a lot. So we're talking about again this game management's presence. But how about establishing credibility, or putting your stamp on the match or making sure everyone was there early, like in opening minutes? What do you do early, maybe if it's even before the game starts? But what are you doing to set the tone for the match, with you as the referee, and how you want it to flow or how you want people to work with you?
Speaker 2:The important technique of refereeing is to make something out of the first interaction, usually the first foul. You want to make something out of it, especially if it's a foul that has some spice to it. You cannot just blow the whistle and point the foul, because everyone knows it's a foul but no one knows what kind of referee they have. So that's something that I've learned very early on I think I'll take it probably back to 2009 or so from Brian Hall, who made a big deal about letting people know what kind of referee they have on that very first interaction. Don't exaggerate, don't fabricate, but don't waste the opportunity. Right, don't waste opportunity. So it's a very good technique to have.
Speaker 2:I advise all referees to do First foul. Go make a presence, a calm, composed it needs to be with a smile. Make it with a smile, but be there. Let people see you. I know what's going on. I got it today. I'll take care of you. If you can get a verbal interaction into it, even better. And then now people know okay, the referee's here, he warmed up, he's good. It's not an opportunity to be wasted.
Speaker 1:Excellent. How about you have reached the pinnacle of matches? I mean you're again World Cup Cup, without a doubt. You're doing international tournaments again postseason tournaments, playoff games, things of that nature where there's very high pressure, situation like high pressure. Do you have any specific types of things that you do or things that you say to yourself to help you maintain composure in those really high pressure cooker type situations?
Speaker 2:I default to my routine and I default to what's familiar. I know the grass is going to be the same, I know the ball is going to be the same, I know my whistle is going to be the same. And I started looking for familiarity of things that I've been doing 300, 400, 500 games and I focus on them and instead of if you step back and look at the grandeur of the game that you're in, it'll overwhelm you, naturally, because we're human. If you think, oh, I'm being watched by 2 billion people or I'm being watched by so-and-so, you'll get overwhelmed. But if you look at, if you smell the grass and look at the ball and look at people's names and focus on fixing your socks the same way you do, et cetera, do your warmup the same way you do.
Speaker 2:Sticking to your routine calms you down and also brings you some confidence because, oh, I've done this 300, 400, 500 times, so your body calms down.
Speaker 2:But you have to do that consciously and it's something that in sports psychology which is a privilege that we've had being in pro, but now it's available to everyone else Because I want to make this relevant to all our audience. Now there are apps and there are podcasts that can give you the same content that I had. Sitting in a pro camp with a sports psychologist that sat and worked with NFL and MLB and NHL players, and they all say the same thing you have to stick to your routines, find your reset points and yourL players, and they all say the same thing you have to stick to your routines, find your reset points and your reset techniques, and if you watch baseball, you'll know what I'm talking about. If you watch a pitcher, you're going to see the exact same movement every single time as they reset themselves pitch to pitch, and some of those techniques is what we've adopted as well. Everyone does it their way and I encourage everyone to find their way to reset from a hard call or a tough game or a situation to situation in the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fascinating. I always encourage people. I get a lot of questions about people saying that they have nerves before a match and the first thing I tell them is like, hey, that's because you care. It's not a bad thing, it means you care. But then have a good warmup. Do you have your pregame? Do you know what you're going to talk about with your referees? Do you get all on the same page? Are you greeting the coaches and players and establishing some rapport early on? But that's, yeah, those little things that you can do. They feel great. I know, for me, if something happens and gosh forbid, there was an accident you're running late to the pitch and you show up five minutes before. And, man, it is hard. It is hard to feel good out there if you haven't done everything you want to do before you, you blow that first whistle, that's for sure. Yeah, that's fascinating. I have a question for you.
Speaker 1:Watched you for years and a lot of the people listening to this have watched you for many years. Your style of game management is very different, right right From the old and everyone brings it up because he was the extreme Kalina who might be with you at this FIFA conference. I have no idea but the pure legit Kalina. He was so fiery in so many episodes. People show of people being in someone's face, but you have this real calmness about you when you're out there. But you also you don't want to be steamrolled by someone. You want to be confident. You also want to have the ability to command when the situation demands it. So how do you balance that of being confident and authoritative with being empathetic and approachable to maintain match control? If you think about that, is that something that you've worked on over the years or has that changed for you over time?
Speaker 2:Yes to all. I've worked on it and it also evolved and adapted, and it really adapted as I learned, right, as I learned. I grew up in South Texas, austin, and then going down to San Antonio, houston, et cetera, dealing with different types of games and cultures and watching referees that have different styles. I picked up from the very early on what it means to be able to do a game and know where your car is parked and which way your car is pointed so they can get out of there as quickly as possible. I've done those types of games and I know what it takes to do those, so I've picked some of that up, what it takes to do those, so I've picked some of that up. And then, coming in into pro, in the early years of pro 2011, 2012, our manager was an English referee, peter Walton. Different style, very calm. They talk to you about all their life before they show you the yellow card, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So you pick that up right. And then you get to FIFA, and then you go to do CONCACAF and you're doing a game in Panama or Honduras or Guatemala between those teams and now you're like, ooh, it's like doing a game in the Valley in South Texas.
Speaker 2:That type of personality needs to come back. But if you're doing, I don't know, mainly English or American players or Asian players, you need to have a different approach. So it's my long way of saying that the most important thing is you need to have all of those quivers in your, all those arrows in your quiver. You need to have all of those tools. The art is when do you use each one? The challenge that I see with some referees is they don't even have that tool when they need it. They're heavily one way or they're heavily the other. Successful referees are dynamic in their personality. Kalina, obviously Pierluigi is very famous because now his career has been boiled down to snippet of video reel of the most extreme moment. But if you go watch a Kalina match, you're going to see a wide variety of personality. You're going to see the smile and the handshake and the stare and of course but for media we need the most extreme ones.
Speaker 2:So my advice to everyone is to find a way to have a variety of methods of dealing with situations and then practice making them natural, to pick the right one at the right time. And I usually, when I teach game management, I use a clip from the World Cup. Maybe I'll send it to you. It's from the World Cup. It was, I believe, argentina and France. It was Kiev from Turkey, same in the same incident. You can name four personalities, complete different in the span to 45 seconds. But that's what that situation needed, that's what those different players needed, and the times you use this one for this, you use this one for this, and then you move on. That's the art of refereeing, that's the art of referee management and people that invest time in watching these things, specifically looking for them, in watching other referees, and then they watch themselves and then critically think how would I have done different? It's not hard to do. It's just human interaction. Really, it's what it comes down to. So for me, it's having the variety and then knowing when to apply each one.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic advice. I learned so much just from that conversation right there. Seriously, because I do my own personal styles. I try and be affable and someone that communicates, without a doubt. But yeah, there's moments in time in the match where it's someone's behavior has gotten completely unacceptable. Or I have a coach when we've been friendly before, but that coach has now said something that's unacceptable and is card worthy and everything needs to change pretty quick, otherwise people will walk over you. Or, as you said, if you're always the tough guy, when you don't have that ability to have a conversation, it'll be really hard to manage the match. And you know, maybe, maybe it's not necessarily. It doesn't need to be heated. I always. One thing I always see is some referees like they. They just someone comes at them with fire and they come back with fire and all it does is make the fire bigger. Man, take it easy.
Speaker 2:Player management is a game of constant analysis. During the game you are reading faces, you're measuring temperatures of 22 players at all times. Literally, they're walking around and there are different temperatures. You ought to know what temperature that player is at that moment. And then the game overall is where because you could be a really calm player, but you of what temperature of game you have and proactively prepare the next step, because most of our problem happen this happened to me, my mistake. They happen when we're surprised. When we're surprised stuff doesn't go right problems, but when we're seeing the next, or we're seeing and we're ready, we don't get frazzled. We handle things calmly and that really is the art of preparation and reading throughout the game. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that, as we're talking about temperature rising and stuff like that, managing conflict maybe it's between players or when addressing coaches, team officials is definitely part of being a referee, right? Because, yes, it's stuff coming at you, but sometimes it's between players. So can you maybe provide an example or just some things you've learned over the years of how you use your tone of voice or your body language to de-escalate a particularly tense situation?
Speaker 2:First of all, you have to have a research, rehearsed verbiage and words that you go to that are natural to you, right? You cannot try to, as someone is fuming and spewing in front of 50,000 is yelling at you, and then you have to figure out what to say or react. If you just react, you're probably not going to say what you would the best thing to be said. So I personally have rehearsed words that I go to in these situations, or something like next play, or I'll talk to you next, or let's go over here. I'm just saying let's go over here. I don't know what he said, but I know I'm going to tell him. Let's go over here. It just because because I'm telling him to do something right Now he has to think he has to go over here, which now I am one a little small battle, yeah, or he will ignore me completely. I know that this guy is at another level and I need to do something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are small words that you go to that you have to have rehearsed. Yeah, at least as your first thing to say, and then you can deal with the situation as you go. But there's no silver bullet, honestly so. But there's no silver bullet. Honestly, david, as I mentioned earlier, it's just reading people and managing people and feeling the game. I cannot. It's hard to teach feeling of the game If you are not a player, a fan or someone that listens to players when they're not playing and understand where they're coming from.
Speaker 2:They don't appreciate what's going on through the mind of a player that's losing in their contract year. And they've just been stepped on their Achilles and they just turned and reacted. You cannot crucify them for that one second reaction. You got to see what they do after they took two deep breaths. It's just a natural thing to do. Is you allow people that passion to come out? Okay, now he's thinking, now let's see what he does, giving that chance. But if he reacts like you said and then you react like you said, you're just building temperature Doesn't help anyone.
Speaker 1:It's genius. Honestly, it's a. It's almost like a jujitsu move, to be quite honest. Like you're taking their energy and instead of coming back and matching the energy in the moment which, by the way, they can't listen to you when they're that fired up and that angry, they're not going to hear a word you say and I love what you're doing there. You're like hey, I'll talk to you over here. So you're actually making them take a second breathe, think, oh, I need to go walk over here now and maybe they have a moment to just calm down a little bit, just to like, like, take the flame off for a second, go from a boil to like maybe it's a simmer and then you could have a conversation. But if you come right at them in the moment, my gosh sparks are going to fly and it could go bad.
Speaker 1:You said that it's a great example that you've got a player who's upset. They've got more stuff going on than just what's happening in that game. Maybe their girlfriend broke up with them that day too, who knows. But if they're that angry, it won't be. There won't be a positive interaction. If you can get them to pause a second and even give you a smell it also. It seems like it may even give you a moment or two to think about what you want to say too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. A moment or two to think about what you want to say too, absolutely absolutely. A big part of this as well is knowing your players. We're lucky enough in the professional leagues that we know these players. We see videos even we're not refereeing them and you know who you're dealing with.
Speaker 2:So a big, I would say, technique very important is to build credit when the game is called. Build some credit, find those small moments of interaction. Don't go be buddy, but be a professional. You know something about them? I don't know. They just signed a new contract. Say congrats on the new contract. You don't lose anything, they just got hurt. You check on them. Are you okay? Can I get you something else? Build small credits everywhere that might come back and help you. Can I get you something else? Build small credits everywhere that might come back and help you. Or you can just go about your day and whistle foul and when things blow up, see if you maybe you'll survive. But I'd rather to increase my chances and get closer to a percentage of success by building some credit for those that allow me that opportunity. So that's also another thing that we use as players.
Speaker 2:I was going to finish my thought about if you're in the amateurs or youth, et cetera. Like I've never seen these players, I don't know who they are. Take some time during the warmup and watch and listen. Who's taking the lead, who's being a hothead During the warmup for that team? You're going to see, oh, that's the person that sets the mood. That's the person that everyone looks up to. That you're going to see, oh, that's the person that sets the mood. That's the person that everyone looks up to. That's the person that everyone pampers. That's this that Pick up three or four characteristics about some players. So you're not surprised if the guy that everybody's pampering during the warm-up gets fouled twice in a row and you're like why is everybody pissed off? Yeah, because he's their darling Small. Things like this you can do in any game. Because he's their darling Small. Things like this you can do in any game high school game, amateur game, whatever, and so on and so forth. So, again, what we're trying to solve for is to not be surprised. That's the main thing.
Speaker 1:I love it. It's interesting you brought up grassroots. That was going to be one of my final questions for you there about, again, youth matches or the amateur game. What advice would you give if you were going to look like the most important thing, or maybe the top two things, for those up and coming referees who aspire to be regional, national pro? What advice would you give them about managing the energy and flow of the game? If you were going to give two things for them to work on and focus on, what would it be?
Speaker 2:I'm going to, if you allow me, there I'm going to give a slightly different advice, but it's going to help them right. It's the same advice I give because it's an advice that can work for a long time and it can evolve as they evolve. Three things Number one find a mentor, not an assessor, not your assigner, not your instructor. Find a mentor. A mentor is a person that is at the level you want to go to, or at least they've been there at a high level, whatever it is state referee. If you're in high school and you want to do high school regionals and finals, find someone that's done them. If you're in youth and you want to do the biggest, toughest game in the youth league that you're in, find a person that usually does it. And then you have to seek them out and ask them.
Speaker 2:David, I'm looking for some mentorship. I'm looking for two hours a month. We sit down and watch video. Could you give me that? The reason I'm being very specific about how you ask for a mentor is because you're asking for their time and you can just say, hey, can you watch me sometimes? Okay, you watch me sometimes. It'll never happen, but if you be specific, get a mentor that can just watch you with no strings attached, no marks, no passing, no failing, no assignments, nothing. They just watch you because you asked them and that's something they like to do.
Speaker 2:I'm sure every city has these people. I know for sure there is. That's number one. Number two watch your clips and your videos, and the reason you need to watch your clips and videos is to do all the stuff we talked about. It's so easy once you see it. However, I tell people, in order for you to do a fair analysis of yourself, watching yourself, you cannot do it when you're doing six games a weekend. You cannot be one of those. You have to pick. Every two months or so, you go to your favorite designer. You say look, this weekend I'm doing one game, only one game, and I'm going to do it the best I can. Full effort, full concentrations, full warm-up, full everything. One perfect game every couple of months. That's the one you need to watch.
Speaker 1:Because I cannot talk to you about positioning if you've done seven hours of refereeing. It's not possible. I know possible. I just want that. I just have to say for all those referees who go to regionals over the summertime, or nationals, and it's in texas right or louisiana, and you've got a 4 pm game and it's 98 degrees and humid outside and you did a game earlier that day too, and then you've got all the assessors watching you. I just feel for them Like so bad.
Speaker 2:We've done that, we've all done that. We've all done that, but you will never be able to know what it feels like to be dying in the last 10 minutes of a game, unless you do it every couple of months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Because fatigue from doing too many games is different from fatigue from doing 100% in one game. Very different, yeah. So that's the second advice. The third one is just controlling the controllables and I'm going to use this broad term of controllable. These are things that only you control your fitness, your preparation, your sleep, your nutrition, your professionalism, how you arrived, your reputation, your reputation. These are things that completely under your control.
Speaker 2:So if you do these three things, you set yourself in a good foundation to grow and learn. And then the rest of the stuff is just like you said. It's just feelings, dynamic feelings. One month is about, the other month is about tactical flowers, another month is about and you keep doing it, and I'm still doing it here in this seminar but the foundations of being humble enough to find a mentor I still have mentors, even at this level Watching yourself self-improvement there's no person that can be honest with you more than yourself if you're real about learning and then controlling the stuff that you can control. These are my three. I would say golden advice for anybody that wants to improve in refereeing.
Speaker 1:Wow, ismail, I have to tell you this has been a fantastic conversation. Everything that I hope for and more, sir. Sir, I am so appreciative of you taking the time as you are again out of the country, continuing to build your own skills and your own network and continue to evolve Just so outrageously appreciative. So, sir Ismail, thank you so much for coming on to the Refs Need Love To pod. I gained so much and I know our listeners appreciate it as well.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the invitation. It's a big honor for me to share some of my experience with you guys.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's amazing. All right, I hope everyone enjoyed today's pod. Ismael is the real deal. I think he is the model of the modern day referee Charisma, confidence, the command he exudes on the pitch enables him to be a success both on and off the pitch. Also, please support the Ref's Need 2 online store. Check out the fun referee socks. They are so cool. I made them for you. Definitely you're not going to find them anywhere else Again. If you're back in the office five days a week, you might as well have some really fun socks to go with it. Everything gets poured back into this channel to make it possible. I wish you all the best and I hope your next match is red card free. We'll see you next time.