REFS NEED LOVE TOO
An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.
REFS NEED LOVE TOO
Untold Sacrifice: Balancing Life, Career and being a Pro Referee with Melisssa Gonzalez
What does it really take to officiate at soccer's highest levels while maintaining a corporate career?Pro assistant referee Melissa Gonzalez pulls back the curtain on the demanding reality behind the flags and whistles.
"The perception is this is my full-time job, but it's not," Gonzalez reveals, describing her meticulous scheduling between IT project management responsibilities and professional refereeing commitments. Unlike many officials who map out deliberate career paths, Melissa's journey began simply with curiosity and the need for college spending money. Her progression came through consistently showing up, performing well, and remaining open to unexpected opportunities.
Standing at just 5'2", Gonzalez defied those who said she could never pass the men's FIFA fitness test, showcasing the determination that defines her career. Her transition from center referee to assistant referee highlights an often overlooked path in officiating – one requiring exceptional adaptability to work with different center referees and their unique communication styles.
Perhaps most compelling is Melissa's candid discussion of gender discrimination throughout her career. From being told she "belonged in the kitchen" to questioning her knowledge of the game, she faced barriers that could have derailed her passion. Instead, she transformed these challenges into character-building opportunities. "Refereeing as a female builds you as an individual," she explains, crediting the profession for developing resilience that extends into all aspects of life.
Whether you're a young referee facing abuse or an experienced official looking to advance, Gonzalez offers simple but powerful wisdom: "Accept failure, learn from it, and keep showing up with a great attitude." Her journey reminds us that the rewards of refereeing – professional opportunities, personal growth, and community connections – come to those who persist through challenges with passion and determination.
Want to connect with other referees or share your own experiences? Reach out through the Refs Need Love Too channel, where the referee community continues to grow and support each other through the beautiful game's most challenging role.
this has been the craziest two three month period of my entire life and I'm thrilled that I've been able to have as much impact on the referee community as I've ever had. For those who follow my channel, I had the opportunity to work on the brand new referee abuse policy for US soccer and I'm actually working on kind of a second piece of that. So that is huge. I love seeing it get out all across the country. I was absolutely just tickled my heart warmed when my son, who's living in South Carolina right now, I got the email of the policy and the link to the video that I got to work on and all the other assets from the South Carolina State Referee Association. It's just amazing. The channel Refs Need Love Too has just been booming like absolutely booming. I'm getting opportunities to do speaking engagements. I've got brand deals coming my way. I get 40 messages a day from people all around the world. Some say, hey, thanks for what you're doing. Some saying, hey, can you help me look at this call and give me your feedback? Sometimes referees are going through hard times and they're just looking for someone to talk to and to get some feedback to. And let me tell you you are not alone. You are not alone out there. Guys, guys, gals, people if you need someone to talk to, you want to share a story, you're having a rough time or you had a great time? You want to share that? Give me a shout, let me know.
Speaker 1:I've also been busy as a referee. It is high school season here in Georgia. Our high school season starts at the end of January and is fast and furious through pretty much the middle of April, and then we get playoffs and then it's over. It's so quick here. So we're like every week I'm doing doubleheader Monday, doubleheader Wednesday, doubleheader Friday. Today I had two high school matches and I just love it. I love it. I love it. I love it, absolutely love high school refereeing. The kids, the coaches just it's so much fun. I can never know what you're going to get when you get out there. You don't know Is it going to be a really competitive match? Is it going to be a lot of fun? But I just absolutely love it. It is honestly the best days that I have as a referee are doing high school matches. It just fits me well.
Speaker 1:This past weekend I had an amazing experience with my son, jacob. We got to go for my 50th birthday in the present, my wife bought me front row seats to go to Atlanta United with my son Jacob. My son came home from college, went to the game together, had such a blast hanging out with the supporters groups by the stadium before the match. We took like hundreds of pictures with people. I got to spend some quality time with my son it's just you can't get that back. And got to meet the grand dame, tori Penso that's right, she was reffing that night. Catherine Nesbitt, she was reffing, she was an assistant that night. Got to meet both of them. Got to meet Tori Penso's mom. Oh my gosh, tori Penso's mom was sitting in our section and she came up to introduce herself after she saw our signs. That's right. We went in our full uniform, full kit, in our yellow, in our shorts, in our socks, pulled up with our signs. The rest need love too, and no ref, no party, and just had an absolute blast. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1:I will say, guys, I am definitely running a little bit on empty right now. I have been pushing myself so hard. I got a new full-time job that I started at the beginning of this year, so you dive into that and I have been working so hard on that. We just launched a new website this week. Check it out Hip-Huescom, h-i-p-dash-hyphen, if you will. H-u-e-scom.
Speaker 1:We do really cool fun activations at trade shows and events. If you've got one going on, your company is going to a trade show, you've got an employee appreciation event, you guys are having a big sales meeting. Give me a shout, man. I tell you, literally it's like a cheat code, especially if you're going to trade shows. Why go to a trade show and stand around with your fellow colleagues whatnot when you could literally have the coolest booth ever, pulling in everyone you want to talk to with the coolest swag? Literally, it is amazing. The first time I used this company that's how I found them, because I hired them for years I literally had a line wrapped around my booth at the trade show, for literally people were waiting up to an hour to get a custom made, a screen printed t-shirt, because it's so much fun, it's really fantastic. So definitely give me a shout on that.
Speaker 1:But I've been doing full-time during the day and then as soon as I finished that, I start. I get up about five, five, 30, I work out, then I, after I shower and eat breakfast and I start working my full-time job and then I do that until about 6 PM at night five, 36 o'clock, have dinner with my family, maybe run my son someplace my younger son still doesn't drive yet and then I come home and I work and I ship orders and I respond to emails and I I'm trying to do videos. I still do a video every single day and those videos take even if it's a 90 second video, it takes me probably about 40 minutes to produce one video and I do that until 10 o'clock and then I get in bed and then I read and I go to sleep and then I pop up again at five. So I recognize that I have been pushing myself a little bit too hard. I feel it right now. So I'm gonna have to pull off the pedal of a couple things. This podcast is probably one of those things. Instead of putting out three or four a month, you'll probably see me just do one, maybe two a month, because I am just really just burning the candle at both ends is way too much and I got to take care of my mental health. I've got to stay connected with my family and really make sure obviously I put all my focus into my full-time job and that company, hip Hughes, that I've just started working for and making sure they're getting my best self and my best effort. Just wanted to let you know if you see me slow down in terms of the amount of videos I put out on a weekly basis or podcasts I put out or any of those other things, just know it's not a lack of love or commitment to the channel, it's just it's crazy.
Speaker 1:And the retail business, my God, the website at refsneedlovetoocom has been insane. We had by far already in the month of March and what we're on like March 15th or something like that. This month of March has been the biggest month ever for the Refs Need Love To business. Kid you not Unbelievable. We added flags to the store two weeks ago and it just to it. Not the crazy high-end, expensive flags like B&D and not the cheapies that are like 29 bucks that feel like nothing in your hands. I came in right now at about $54 for proper weighted rubber handle flags that are really nice. Definitely check them out in the store. But man shipping that it's been a whole new thing. Instead of just putting things in like bubble wrap envelopes now I got like cardboard boxes that I got to fold and I got to tape and I got to bring to UPS as opposed to drop it in the mailbox. This is the whole thing.
Speaker 1:All that to be said, I'm doing fine. I'm having fun. I am in love right now with life. I love my family, I love my kids, love my wife. I love my full-time job. I'm having a lot of fun and excited about where that's going to go. Loving my the Refs Need Love 2 empire. Whatever that is the social media, the podcast, the brand deal, the retail stores, all that kind of stuff. I'm thankful for all of the love that I continue to get from this community.
Speaker 1:Every single day, I am hearing from another referee out there sending me pictures of them on the pitch, either using my cards, or I'm getting pictures of young kids who are refereeing their first matches, or referees who have been doing it for 50 years. I love hearing from each and every one of you, whether it's an email, whether it's a text, whether it's a DM on Instagram or something like that. I love it. It inspires me. It fills my heart with so much joy. Oh my gosh, I'm just so thankful. All right Today, guys great episode We've got Melissa Gonzalez, a professional referee.
Speaker 1:She was on the cover of the official sports magazine that came out this past holiday season. You'll definitely, if you don't know her name, look her up. You definitely know who she is. You've definitely seen her on TV a number of times. So enjoy, guys. Again, thank you so much for everything. I love you.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Refs Need Love Too podcast, a show that gives you a real raw and behind-the-scenes view of one of the hardest jobs on the pitch the referee. I'm your host, david Gerson, a grassroots referee with a certified mentor, with over 10 years of experience and over 1300 matches under my belt. You can find me at refsneedlove2.com and on Instagram, on TikTok and now even on YouTube. Today we're going to be speaking with Melissa Gonzalez. She is a dedicated assistant referee with over 18 years officiating experience.
Speaker 1:Since beginning her career in 2006, melissa has steadily progressed the United States Soccer Federation's ranks before focusing exclusively on her role as an assistant referee. She spent six years as a national referee before joining Pro 2 Referee Program in 2022. Melissa's journey was shaped by her involvement in the Referee Development Program, which laid the groundwork for her professional career. She now officiates in several professional leagues, including the NWSL, mls, next Bro, usl and Super League, while also contributing to international matches and tournaments whenever opportunities arise. Now one other fun note Melissa was on the cover of the holiday catalog for official sports that came out about a month ago. You may remember her charging down the line with her flag in hand her black OSI jersey. She has definitely reached peak referee status after that. Welcome to the pod, melissa.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you for that lovely intro.
Speaker 1:It's my pleasure. You deserve it Since 2006. My gosh, that is an amazing career you've had.
Speaker 2:Yes, 18 years being asked to be in this podcast. I had to do a little digging. I was like I haven't been reffing that long. And I looked at my profile and I was like, oh my God, it's been 18 years already.
Speaker 1:It sneaks up on you, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but, yeah, but it's a good thing If it's something you love and you enjoy. Definitely, time flies when you're having fun. As they say yes, all right, so tell us a little bit about yourself as a pro referee, if we can for just a second. We said that you're a pro-two referee. How does pro-two fit into the refereeing pyramid?
Speaker 2:So this is an interesting question. Pro-two refereeing wasn't really a thing that was there a couple years ago, until recently. So it is nice now that it gives a path for younger referees to move up the ranks. So when I was coming up, there was programs, there was things here and there, but now if you go on the website for US Soccer Federation, there is some sort of a guideline, a pathway for younger referees that are coming up to see where they can progress and move up. So that is a really nice pathway.
Speaker 1:Excellent, and so next step would you to be pro one Is that is there, at that top level, you can go from there.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's always a step forward. There's two ways FIFA, obviously, is always the dream and goal for everyone, and then becoming a pro one referee.
Speaker 1:And so what changes from you when you go from national referee which I think you're at that level for six years, Correct and then you make it into pro two, which is an excellent? What changes in your world? Are there different types of matches you can get on? Do you get compensated differently? How do things change for you as you move to pro two?
Speaker 2:This is an interesting question. It's very sticky just because of all the political and behind the scenes that happened behind this and some of the people that work through it. The salary or the payment changes just quite a bit. But I think the difference between a national referee to a Pro 2 is the game assignments, the priorities of you getting those matches in NWSL, so that exclusiveness makes you want to be in that program. So that's really where the transition is for me from a money aspect, payment Everybody can reach it but just knowing that you are a first priority for these games is really it's a privilege.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so how often are you working as a referee for, say, like these NWSL games, these high level assignments? If there's 52 weeks in a year, how many weeks of a year are you working for?
Speaker 2:In those weekends we only get assigned one or two matches per week, depending on your availability. This is a pretty standard procedure based on our contract as well. We're allowed weekends off, but as a match official you want all those games but you have to know when you need to take some time off to kind of calm down and be ready for the next match.
Speaker 1:So how much are you working through the year? How many weeks a year do you think you're officiating?
Speaker 2:So this is an interesting question, because the perception is like we have our season from March to October when based on calendar year, but really our season starts much earlier on in January we have pro camp, we have preseason and then season and then postseason and then, for some of us, college as well. So it almost feels like you're reffing from end to end, 12 months straight.
Speaker 1:That's wild and I know we briefly talked about this before we got on, and I think this is even the case for many assistant referees when they make it to the pro level. But is being a referee, is that your full-time job, or do you also have another job on top of being a referee?
Speaker 2:This is. I've talked to multiple people and the perception for me is this is my full-time job, but it's not. I remember I was like training with one of my colleagues and he was like, isn't refereeing your full-time job? And I said, excuse me, no, it is not. I've locked my work calendar so I can train at the tribe. What do you mean? Like you're always training, you're out in the soccer pitch, and I was like this is where my IT project management skill sets come into play Scheduling, planning ahead of time. I use those skill sets in refereeing, so I have to plan out my workouts. I have to plan out my schedule a couple of weeks behind. So it's a lot of scheduling. But the perception is you are a full-time referee. No, I'm not, sir or ma'am. I have a full-time job. I'm an IT project manager. I have to do my nine to five plus training, plus refereeing and traveling. I just don't talk about it. I just don't post pictures about it traveling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just don't talk about it, I just don't post pictures about it. I think a lot of people just assume that, oh, you've made it on. You're on an NWSL sideline, you're on TV as a referee, you're at an international match. This got to be a full-time job, but you're pretty much working two full-time jobs. You've got one thing that dominates your weekend and sometimes the middle of your week. That takes training and studying and preparation, and then the actual travel to an event and then actually being at the event, and you still need to hit all of your deadlines and be the best you can be at your full-time job as well. It's wild how you do that, but a lot of people really don't know about that.
Speaker 2:Yes, a lot of people are. It's an it. It amazes me because every time I talk to people they're like this is your full-time job. One of the facilities that I go train every Wednesday. Some of the trainers were like hey, referee, where are you traveling to? And then they're like you're working with so-and-so. And I said yeah, how do you think I can afford to pay my trainer? It's not refereeing, that's paying this bill. It is my other profession that allows me to pay for this training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the one thing that always hits me when I see a professional referee is, I think about the sacrifices that you've made to pursue your dream that, yes, there is income, you get paid, but you have to make so many sacrifices to just your life, your free time. Can you talk a little bit? Are you still able to have a full personal family? Fun and vacations, or do you have to give a lot of that up to make it to the pro level?
Speaker 2:So it's interesting because some people say sacrifices yeah, it is, there's a lot of sacrifice, but when you have a passion drive, it doesn't become a sacrifice, and then when you have amazing friends and family that support you through it, it becomes easier. However, when it comes to family events, I'm like, hey, so when is this going to be? Like, okay, let me like block this calendar. So it's a lot of coordination with your family, your friends talking it. It makes you call them, even though it's a big texting world, and ask them like, hey, when is this, what time? But I did promise myself this past year that I wasn't going to miss a couple of family events and I've made sure that I'm there, even though I want to be on the pitch, but I make sure family comes first too.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's wonderful. Let's take a step back.
Speaker 2:How did your referee journey begin? Where, what age, what age groups are you working? Let's talk. Let's go back to the beginning. I was playing club and I saw my soccer teammate and she opened up her wallet and she had this cash in hand. And I said wait, where'd she get that money from? And she was like, oh, I signed up for this referee course and I started refereeing soccer games. I was like what is that? She's? You know that person in the middle that's running around and blowing the whistle. And I said yeah, and she was like they get paid for that. So she gave me the course. She gave me numbers. I called, I showed up to this referee course and they were talking about the laws and I was like I don't know what they're talking about, but here I was like selling off this question. So I started fairly young, when I was in high school, transitioning into college, so that's really when I started refereeing.
Speaker 1:My gosh, that's so exciting. And when did it really start changing for you, when you were doing kind of your local recreational club games, to start doing some of those higher level games, higher level assignments, whether they would have been at that time again the highest levels of academy or making it to anything where there might be tournaments that are out of town? When did things switch for you, at what age and how did that happen? Might be tournaments that are out of town.
Speaker 2:When did things switch for you, at what age and how did that happen? Sure, when I talk to a lot of people about this, the perception is I followed this really traditional trajectory. I went to youth nationals or I did this, and I went to these tournaments and I was like what are you guys talking about? I remember when I was refereeing, I said to myself I just need this to go pay my bills. In college I'm a full scholar, I just need to pay my bills and then I'm going to start refereeing. Like it wasn't something I aspire to. Be a professional referee, it is the honest thing. And they're like what do you mean? Like how did you make it up? Like that just doesn't make sense. And I said what are you talking about? I didn't really have that switch. I didn't really until I was much, much older.
Speaker 2:So a lot of my peers were like what do you mean? That doesn't make sense. And I said the opportunities kept presenting themselves. I remember that I always go do DAs when it was a thing, or I got invited to tournaments and I went. So I did a lot of these things because, yeah, I needed cash and I also liked it and it kept me a little busy. So it wasn't like I aspired, but really the moment when it presented itself.
Speaker 2:I remember Rick Hetty. When I first met Rick Hetty, when he was coming in, he's like hey, do you want to move up? And there was conversations like whatever. So the opportunities like kept presenting themselves and it really was like I remember I went to one of those classes for your associations and I was just sitting there watching tv, watching these soccer games, and I saw this like referee come in and everybody's like oh, sean Showard's here. I was like whatever, like I don't know who this guy is, I don't really care. And I was like he sat in front of me and I was going like this and I was like I wonder if I can ever make it up to the tv, like I wonder if I can ever like be up there. And he's like are you curious? And I said yeah, I'm just curious. And then that's when I met Rick Eddy and he was like, hey, like when you're ever ready, let me know. And these opportunities just presented itself.
Speaker 2:But really the thing that kind of triggered for me was curiosity. And when I was ready to be curious, what refereeing allowed me to do is when I reached out and I said, okay, I'm ready, I want to see what this traveling referee is, what this national referee is all about. And that's really when I started to get my exposure. But the opportunities were always there. I remember meeting Sandra Serafini. She was like, okay, you're good, I'm like who is this lady? I don't really. They were always there. These opportunities are always there. But it really was my curiosity. They were always there, these opportunities are always there. But it really was my curiosity, me reaching out and say, okay, I'm ready to understand what this professional or national refereeing is all about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's take a step back for a second. So you mentioned Rick Eddy and I believe Rick long time. Yes, yes, director of referees for us. Yeah, so I, but I also I think you're being a little bit humble I'm assuming what happened is that you were at an event and these people saw someone who was like killing it, who was doing a great job and they're like, come on honestly, they don't say those things.
Speaker 1:Hey, do you want to step up and do these national events, or you want to see opportunities, unless you're really good? So you must have been performing at a high level, but just hadn't made that connection yet.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can actually do this like long term so there was uh, there was no connection. I was remember I had a mentor and I was like who are these people? They're teaching me these things that I kept showing up? Yeah, it wasn't. I didn't have this like correlation. I didn't go to the all these events. I just kept showing up and these opportunities and I kept hearing like opportunities, presented subs. As maybe I did have these opportunities, it just it never really clicked until I really started to get an exposure going to Dallas Cup, going to these tournaments. I'm like maybe I can make it, maybe that is a possibility, maybe I can start doing things. But I was always excited about my game assignment, like I remember getting my first college games. It was just everything was exciting, it was new, it was like a thrill, but I was always like, can I make it there? Can I make it there?
Speaker 1:I was always curious, cool. Can we talk a little bit about the transition that you've now made to focus exclusively on being an assistant referee as opposed? To in the center with the whistle. When did that happen and why did you make that switch?
Speaker 2:so this one. I love this question because when I was up and coming he was only a center referee. I didn't know how to carry a shillag. I all I knew is like when you do those go on the weekends and you do one center, two lines, I just knew how to do it from there. But I do remember a lot of people asking me like hey, you're pretty good at this. Why I always wanted to be a center referee.
Speaker 2:I always wanted to be a center referee and then my invite came to national camp and I said assistant referee, what is this, excuse me. Like I wanted a referee and I was pretty upset about it and I remember a lot of people were like Mel, like how did you assistant referee? We don't know you as an assistant referee, we know you as a referee. So I took a lot of phone calls and asked them like hey, so my invite came as an assistant referee. What are your thoughts? They they're like what do you want? And it's like I don't. I want to move up like I want to do men's games. That was like really my big driving factor at that point. I want to do men's game, I want to make it mls, I want to do this. If the opportunity's there, take it. It might never come. And I said what? What do you mean? It might never come? That's really how the transition came. It wasn't something that expired, something that I picked, it just presented itself again. Wow.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to hear that because you would think the again, I don't know, I'm just ignorant in this, but you would think the demand would be more for referee, for center referee, especially younger female referees, that there would be an opportunity. Do you have any idea why it went that way, why they encouraged you to follow the assistant referee path?
Speaker 2:To my understanding, the perception was there wasn't enough assistant referees at that time, so everybody that was coming up with was referee and moved over to assistant referee Interesting. But I thought that was interesting and I said you know what, if this is where the opportunity is going to be at, I'm going to go for it, I'm going to take it.
Speaker 1:Let's go with the punches. Let's see where this takes me. Yeah, and so did I. So you go to national camp and you get you're now on this assistant referee path. So how do things change when you start focusing as an assistant referee as opposed to a referee? Does your training change? Does your fitness change? Does your mindset as you think about matches completely change? How does that change for you?
Speaker 2:it was interesting because my mind was always thinking, as a referee hey, that's a foul, hey, so you have to learn how to take a step back. And the movements were different. So it almost felt like you were constrained from one end to the other, versus in the middle. I felt like you were slowing, like you were free, so everything changes. But then the perception was oh, you're assistant referee, you don't know any better, and I was like, actually I do know. Like I was a referee, I know that's a foul, I know that's a yellow card. Like you're wrong.
Speaker 1:That's wild. What do you think are some of the most important qualities to be a top-notch referee? Now that you're at the professional level, what makes a pro assistant referee?
Speaker 2:Pro assistant referee. This question when you asked, and it takes a lot of thinking, right, because being an assistant referee is unique, right, and what makes you top notch is being able to adapt to your center referee, whether it's verbal or nonverbal communication. You have to learn how to work with different people and different personalities and what are the things they need. So I am thankful that, as an IT project manager manager, I work with different projects and I'm always working with different personalities, and that is what an assistant referee is. We just you don't get the same person, so everyone is a little bit different, their communication is different, so you have to be able to adapt and understand what they need for that match or for that game.
Speaker 1:That's very interesting. I guess this was something that I was, I guess, mistaken about. Was that I feel like sometimes, when I've seen in Premier League, in particular at professional level in England, that the same center referee is often working with a crew, the similar assistant referees or maybe I've only seen that for champions, I'm not sure, but for you it's pretty much like every time you're being assigned. Are you generally working with different people every time you're out there?
Speaker 2:So this past season I was very blessed that I was kept with a similar rotation of referees, but prior seasons it was not the case. I worked with pretty much everybody in the roster. So I was like, ok, I'm working with so-and-so, they don't like to do this, the roster, so I do. I was like, okay, I'm working with so and they don't like to do this, I'm working with so and they like to do this. So I became very good at it, right where I build my own reputation, and when I would show up to the locker room, I remember this referee was like oh, I don't need to worry about you because I know I can trust you. And I was like, wait, you haven't given me your pre and he's up. I know I can trust you, I've heard great things about you, so I don't have to give you a pregame, just X, y and Z. And I said, oh, okay, okay, I like this.
Speaker 1:I love it. Excellent, cool, all right. So what do you think for you personally now? What are some of the biggest challenges that you've faced on your referee journey? You've been at it in 16 years now, but what have been some of the biggest challenges you've experienced?
Speaker 2:Some of the biggest challenges. Wow, there's so many. The biggest challenge and I tell this to everybody now, like I sit with a group of great match officials that everybody can officiate, everybody can do the job, everybody can show up, everybody's a research, but now it's what makes you a little bit different. What are the things that are making you stand out? What are the things that are you doing differently from your peers to move to the next level? So you got to think about it. You're now. You made it out of this national pool and now you're in this amazing pro to referees. So when you go to pro camp, there's what? Maybe 200 of us or so. I can be wrong with these numbers, but everybody can do the same job. But now, what are the things that are you doing differently from everybody else?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Is it the ways? Are you? Can you differentiate? Still with your fitness? I know everyone is unbelievably fit, but I bet there are some people who get down the line and look fitter when doing it and still make mechanics when they get there. How do you differentiate at this level? Everyone's so great.
Speaker 2:Everyone's amazing, like everybody can show up and officiate for 90 minutes, like everybody can do the research, everyone can do the clips and analyze. But what are the different things? And I didn't quite understand this. I really didn't quite understand this until I started working with my coach, maybe two years ago. This is really when things clicked for me and changed and I said what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:But his experience comes from NFL, so he trains professional athletes. So he mentioned the same thing and I was like Melissa, you got to think about it. He was like everybody can do this job. It's the small things that make the difference. And I said I don't understand. This is really. I can ref, I can do this. And he said, no, it's your footwork, it's how you're not analyzing your footwork, it's your movement. And I was like but I'm moving well? And he said, no, your movement is this. So it was really taking a step back, understanding, like myself, my movement, my positioning, and then implementing it. So it wasn't until later this year where all my work or all those changes that I made, those minor changes it wasn't drastic, it was minor things that really started to show on the field this past season.
Speaker 1:My gosh, that's fantastic. I love to hear it. Okay, so I do have some questions for you about your life as a female referee in particular. So, melissa, I know you came up with the whistle and then also your assistant referee matches as well, and you did men's games, certainly at the amateur level. So have you experienced any different treatment, or do you feel you've experienced any different treatment as a woman on the pitch as opposed to your male counterparts? Any chauvinism, anything you feel is disrespectful? Have you gone through that and, if so, how did you deal with it?
Speaker 2:All the time when I was coming up. It was all the time. Maybe not today as much because where I sit and I'm very fortunate, but it was all the time. It was the verbal abuse. I remember being told you don't belong on the field, like you should be in the kitchen. It was also a culture thing Showing up to certain leagues and you see a young female referee doing these games. It was a consistent thing, like I can tell you a story. When I first started refereeing one of these amateur leagues non-affiliated I showed up and I called a penalty kick. When it wasn't a penalty kick. I had no idea at that time. I was like young, I didn't know the laws and I remember the parent just coming at me. He was like you belong in the kitchen, you shouldn't be doing this. And I was like, well, whatever I called the PK I know I was right like I'm gonna come back to come back next weekend but I was wrong. I was totally wrong. But I showed up. I kept showing up every single time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what would you say if you were able to speak to a room full of young female referees 14 to 17 years old? You have a room of these young girls. What would you say to them to help them stick with it, like you were able to stick with it, Because we know 80% of referees drop out after three years of one cause spectator abuse and coach abuse.
Speaker 1:But I will tell you just in my own personal observation it seems when that dropout happens, it happens even more for our female referees as you move up and especially in the amateur ranks, there's a lot more guys will stick with it, but a lot of the girls drop out.
Speaker 2:What would you say to these young women to prepare them for being a referee, so that we don't lose so many so quickly? Yeah, this is an interesting one because it builds a lot of character. You have to be very strong. Refereeing as a female builds you as an individual. Yeah, you can be soft and gentle and that's the perception, but it builds you as a young referee, like I know.
Speaker 2:Every single time when I was being yelled or told things by the parents, I showed up. I showed up every weekend and at that time it was different because I was like I need to show up because I need to pay my bills for college and pay my apartment. But I made sure I always showed up and I didn't let things bother me and if I I recall my parents, like someone does, don't worry, just go do your job and stay focused. So you have to know, like the, as a female, it's unfortunate You're going to be called names, but you have to build. And I had this. I was.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't want to say if it was a gut, but it was more like I'm going to keep coming and I'm going to show you. And. But it was more like I'm going to keep coming and I'm going to show you and I'm going to come back. I don't care what you think, but I'm going to be here. So it made me stronger as I was coming up and it was a characteristic that I didn't know I was building and it led into my professional career now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's. The professional lessons you learn are so important for being a referee. I know personally you deal with some stressful situations on the pitch. It prepares you well for dealing with stressful situations in the office as well. There are going to be people who don't like you.
Speaker 1:There are going to be people who are going to say not nice things to you, whatnot, and it's all about how you respond to that. If you just run away, go cry in a corner someplace, it's going to be hard to work in a professional environment. It can be difficult. Now I'm not saying that's right. I don't think that's a good thing that it happens, but it happens and it happens all over the place as well. So talk to me now about what you love most about being a referee. Cause we've talked about there are some ugly moments out there saying discriminatory, chauvinistic, nasty things to you, but you're keep coming back. So what is it about being a referee that you love that keeps you coming back?
Speaker 2:I really love this question. There is just so many ways I can answer this, but I just have this passion and strive for this game. I really love now, like when I show up to these stadiums and I'm like, wow, I really did this, Like I'm really here. And so when I hear parents yelling at me in big stadiums and I said you know what? No, I belong here. Like I belong here, Like this is my moment. So just showing up to these games and knowing that I made it is, you know, it's amazing, it's a feeling that you cannot describe. To go back and look at your resume and see where you started to where you're at now, it humbles you.
Speaker 1:And so what would you say if there was a referee? Let's say it was someone I don't know, 18 to 22 years old, and they aspire to be a professional referee. They love it, they're passionate about it, they think they're good enough, they're getting invited to regionals or president's cup finals or nationals. What advice would you give them? Or about becoming a professional referee? What do they need to do?
Speaker 2:What do they need to think about? What advice would you give them on that path, except failure? One of the biggest things that we don't talk about refereeing is you're going to fail over and over, but if you have that tenacity to always get up and move forward and learn from it, you'll go very far. But also make sure you have this great environment that supports you through these failures. They're not easy.
Speaker 2:I can give many examples, and one of them has been not passing the men's fitness test. I was told multiple times you're small, you're never going to pass it. You're never going test. I was told multiple times you're small, you're never going to pass it. You're never going to do that. And I said you know what I've done USL championship men's games. I can keep up. I'll show you that I can do this. I don't know how, but I'm going to get there. It was a consistent failure until I reached that goal right. So you can't give up on yourself and you need to accept the failures, need to accept that what you did wasn't working for you and how are you going to change it and fix it, moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is fantastic. And for those who are unfamiliar with the FIFA fitness test, there's fitness category three and category one for women, and there's also fitness tests for three and two and one for men as well. So you're actually talking about passing the men's FIFA fitness test to be able to make it to this professional level, which is just outrageous. It's so fast I can't even describe. Oh my gosh, that is an amazing thing. And we haven't met in person. You said you're little, so how tall are you, melissa?
Speaker 2:Oh, on a good day. 5'2".
Speaker 1:So you're keeping up with, like men who might be six feet tall, absolutely. That is, you are fast If you're passing that test. I mean it is. It is no joke. That is quite a testament, and just testament, to what you need to do to be a professional if fitness requirements are extreme.
Speaker 2:So congratulations on passing that test, that is huge.
Speaker 1:That is huge. And is there any last advice for referees out there? What would you just want to say to those people out there who are out there every week on the pitch grassroots? They don't have any security around them and they do have those people yelling at them. You know, what do you want to say to them to keep them continuing out there, continue being as a service to the community, as a referee? Any wise words of advice for them?
Speaker 2:Show up, enjoy everything. When you take a step back and you see it's gone and you really realize oh my God, where am I in my life with refereeing? It goes fast, I was told. Oh told it goes fast, but it really does go fast. And the biggest advice for any referee that really wants to move up show up. You know, show up with a great smile, show up with a great attitude. Yeah, things happen in life, everybody has their problems, but by you showing up it's a big step forward.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, wonderful, melissa. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast Guys. I hope everyone enjoyed our conversation. It's always such a joy to hear from our pro referees here in the US. Melissa's got tremendous experience and she's had a significant success through her dedication and focus on being the best official she can be and she's like fine all of those details every single week to continue being the best and move up as a professional. Also, I just want to remind please support the refs. Need love to online store. Check out the new whistle I recently added the monster. It is so loud, it is so crisp. Definitely pick it up, get some merch, get some swag. Everything gets forward back into making this channel possible. And, as always, I wish you all the best and hope your next match is red card free. Hey, hey.