REFS NEED LOVE TOO
An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.
REFS NEED LOVE TOO
Passport to the Pitch with TravelRef: A Guide to Traveling as a Referee
Have you ever wondered how the best soccer referees reach the pinnacle of their profession? For national referee Bowen Taylor, the answer lies in stepping out of your comfort zone and traveling to officiate matches across the country.
At just 25 years old, Bowen has already achieved what many referees dream of – earning his national badge and working professional matches in leagues like USL Championship and MLS Next Pro. His secret weapon? Using travel as a catalyst for growth. When you officiate unfamiliar teams on unfamiliar fields with unfamiliar colleagues, you develop adaptability and confidence that transforms your refereeing forever.
In this revealing conversation, Bowen shares how he made the bold decision as a college-aged player to pursue refereeing full-time, recognizing that his potential in officiating far exceeded his prospects as a D2 backup. That decision led him to tournaments across the country, where he strategically sought feedback from national referee coaches and built a support network of colleagues who understand the unique challenges of the profession.
Now, Bowen is making these same opportunities accessible to all referees through Travel Ref, a free platform connecting officials with tournaments nationwide. From prestigious youth competitions to local events in beautiful destinations, the service helps referees find matches that match their qualifications while handling all the logistical complications that previously made tournament travel mysterious and difficult.
Whether you're an ambitious referee looking to advance through the ranks or simply seeking to combine your passion for officiating with seeing new parts of the country, this episode offers practical advice on making referee travel work for you. Bowen's tips on maintaining professionalism, preparing for different environmental conditions, and maximizing feedback opportunities provide a roadmap for successful referee adventures.
Create your free profile at travelref.com and discover how stepping onto new fields might be the key to unlocking your potential as a referee. Your next whistle could be in Miami, Colorado, South Dakota, or beyond – where will your referee journey take you?
Hello and welcome to the refs need love to podcast a show that gives you a real raw and behind the scenes view of one of the hardest jobs in the pitch the referee Guys. We have got a great show for you this week with Bowen Taylor at a Colorado. But before we get into that, I want to do a few messages from the mailbag. I want to do a couple updates on the podcast and then a couple notes from our sponsors, of course, who make it all possible. First, updates on the podcast. So I'm podcasting. I'm still here podcasting. I did an episode last week. I recorded that Hopefully I'll have out today, and then I've got some other stuff that I I'm going to be putting out in the very near future, and the reason why I've been able to get more podcasts out recently is because someone volunteered to help me edit the podcast into beautiful video clips for YouTube and social media.
Speaker 1:This is huge. It was a massive time suck for me. It's one thing doing these short videos for Instagram and for TikTok, but it's a whole other thing to do these like professionally produced videos that are 45 minutes long, that have different like images in them and an intro and an outro that you do for YouTube. Well, a fan of the podcast, this guy out in Idaho, jared, actually reached out to me. He's like, hey, I'm a video production person, I'd love to help you. So hooked him up with some swag, some cool stuff from Ref Seen Love 2 store and my love and appreciation, and he's been helping me out. So it's been a huge relief for me and it's encouraged me to keep on going to put out a couple of podcasts a month. So thank you so much, jared. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Other things I'm going to take a little bit of a different tack on the next few episodes. I've got some interviews lined up but I haven't done like a really like from the heart in my world type of podcast recently and I love those. I love going back to them. I know a lot of people listen to them like multiple times, like I love like just the emotion of those. So I'm going to do a few more of those just to talk to you about what's going on the pitch, what's going off the pitch for me. We just wrapped up our high school regular season Playoffs are coming up and I can't wait to give you a behind the scenes scoop on that and not only just on, like my reffing life, but even my personal life too. I love just kind of sharing little anecdotes to know that I'm real, like I'm one of you, like I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I work a full-time job. Obviously I've got this passion project too, but I'm just a regular person and I want to share what's going on in my life with you guys.
Speaker 1:All right, before we get into the show we're going to do a quick letter from the mailbag and then a big thank you to the sponsors, of course. So for the mailbag love, this one this is from Liam. Oh my gosh, I get a couple of these like heartwarming ones every week. They never get old. This one's great. It says just want to thank you for all you do.
Speaker 1:I've been officiating since I was 14. He's 23 now and I was honestly falling out of love with it and growing sick and tired of parents and problem coaches. Your channel and podcast is a huge part of me falling back in love with the profession. I just graduated with my master's degree and, due to how the economy is, I haven't been able to find a job, so refereeing has become my job. I went all in this fall and worked my way up to a GA girls Academy, u19 center and multiple varsity centers this fall. I'm regaining the passion I had when I first started and I have a serious shot and goal to make it to regionals for USYS.
Speaker 1:Thank you for all that you do for the refereeing community, liam, thank you. Thank you First off, obviously, thank you for taking the time to send this message, but thank you for sharing your love for the game with your community. That is so fantastic. We need people like you. I know that it can be frustrating some days and, yes, parents and coaches can be challenging, but don't let the bad guys win. There are so many other people out there who love and appreciate you, not just your fellow referees, players, parents and coaches as well. They aren't as vocal as the bad ones, the ones who are yelling, complaining, dissenting, all that kind of stuff, but let me tell you, they're out there. Have faith in yourself, have faith in your community. Know that we love you and appreciate you, and thank you so much for sharing that note.
Speaker 1:All right, real brief. Let's hit the sponsors real quick. First and foremost, what is on my feet every time I'm stepping on the pitch these days? Piro, piro. I love these shits. Seriously, I'm so excited that Leland has developed them for us, us referees. It's fantastic and again, I'm crazy about supporting local and small businesses. Like a fellow referee, love that. Again, they're light and flexible. They work on any surface. I can wear them on grass, I can wear them on turf, I don't need to worry about multiple pairs of boots. I can cut and move with confidence. They've recently added wides, which I needed because I got duck feet, really wide feet, and I'm supporting one of the nicest guys in the game Was a national referee, is still a Nassau referee, is a national referee.
Speaker 1:Coach, listen please. When you buy them on officialsportscom, use my code refsneedlove2, just all one word, all 12 letters of it, or 16 letters. Let me count better 16 letters, refsneedlove2, two on the official sports website and it gets you 10% off. So that brings the price down to 106 bucks. Again, that's 40% less than my hokas, my running shoes. It is a deal. You won't be sad about it. You'll look great, you'll feel great, you'll be able to make it to be in the right position. Just trust me on that one. All right.
Speaker 1:Refersports I've talked about them numerous times, but this is silly that we're still in this day and age and people are still using email or spreadsheets and sending out just random emails. Hey, which games do you want? This should all be easier. It should be app based. It should be really simple to see what's available immediately, be able to accept a match and not have to wonder did I get assigned? Will I be assigned all that stuff? It's so annoying. I want to know where I need to wonder did I get assigned? Will I be assigned All that stuff? It's so annoying. I want to know where I need to be, what I'm getting paid, who my crew is, what's the rules of competition. It should be simple. It should be simple.
Speaker 1:Refersports R-E-F-R-K. Just look them up online. Tell them. Gerson sent you and the last one, guys Ref6. Man, if you are not using the Ref6 watch like the app for your watch, I just wonder like how are you doing it? I just don't get it If I don't know what time it is. And it's so easy to use the Ref6 app on my watch with that big timer and knowing how much time has elapsed and how much time has left and how much stoppage time. I'm just confused out there If I don't have my Apple watch and I'm in the center or I'm on a dual and I need to know. Man, that is just crazy for me. The data is amazing too. I love seeing my heat maps, my sprint maps after the match. It inspires me on the pitch when I look at that later and see how that great sprint that I did I got in the red zone. Just telling you it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Definitely Again, use my code. Refs need love too All Fantastic, definitely Again. Use my code, refsneedlovetoo all one word, all uppercase, and you get 20% off. 20% off. I had no idea, man. If you're playing for the annual plan for REF6 and not using my code, that is silly. You just need to use my code Next time. Use my code REFSNEEDLOVETOO 20% off. What a deal, all right, guys. And now for the show 20% off. What a deal, all right, guys. And now for the show.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Refs Need Love To podcast. A show that gives you a real, raw and behind the scenes view of one of the hardest jobs on the pitch. The referee I'm your host, david Gerson, a grassroots referee and certified mentor with over 10 years of experience and over 1200 matches under my belt. You can find me at refsneedlovetocom, on Instagram, tiktok and now on YouTube. Today we're going to be talking with the founder of Travel Ref, bowen Taylor, the referee for over 10 years. He started in 2016. He's a USSF national referee, a referee mentor and an assigner.
Speaker 1:Now, going back, you may be wondering what in the world is Travel Ref? I never heard of that. Well, tournaments are looking for refs. Their local pool usually can't handle the hundreds of matches that happen in these big tournaments when they get scheduled and on the other side, referees are often looking to go travel to new places to ref to have new experiences, maybe try some new levels of competition, get some feedback, meet some new people in their network, but they don't know who to contact or how to make it work financially. Travel Ref is designed to connect referees who love or want to travel with assigners who need them all across the country. They offer referees opportunity to work at some of the most prestigious tournaments in different states. While helping tournament coordinators meet their staffing needs. They elevate the tournament experience for everyone involved. Bowen Taylor, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:David, thank you so much for having me on. Huge fan of the show and that's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I appreciate that, but I'm glad you're here. This is actually such a interesting topic of conversation. So, for those who have listened to my show in the past, I actually did a referee adventure last year where I got to ref in New York city and got to go to a new area that I haven't reffed in, even though I grew up there. Fields I've never been to before, referees I've never been to before, teams I've never reffed to before, and I found it to be a really inspiring, huge growth experience for me as a referee. So I'm like so curious to talk about travel ref and what that is for other people. So I'm like really into this topic, man.
Speaker 2:That's great to hear. I love to hear that you had that experience and I feel like now there's a whole bag of worms to dive into there.
Speaker 1:I know it. I know it. Man, let's take a step back and just level set, because you're part of the crew, like you are a referee. But you're not just a referee, you're a national referee. So let's take a little bit of a step back, tell us a bit of your journey that you've been on, where you started and where you're reffing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I started reffing in high school. Someone brought it to our high school team and they were like, hey, we need the local club needs reffs. And I was like, oh, sounds like a great way to make money and do something I don't hate. And I definitely found out that I love it a lot more than I thought I would initially and that's a big part of the reason as to why I stuck with that journey and why I decided every day, every weekend, when I had games, that it was something I still wanted to keep doing, despite crazy parents, despite crazy players.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I really pursued it hard in high school when I first started and then I had the opportunity to play in college and I would have been a backup player and I'd really gotten into reffing. I'd just gotten to my first regionals. I was super excited about the opportunities and that's when I was like I'm ready to take this to another level. I want to make soccer refereeing my primary focus, which isn't something you really find too often across the wide variety of referees that you come across, and for me it was the lifestyle. I really love the sport, I really love giving back to the game and I really enjoy making that the biggest, the biggest part of my life that it can be.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's wild, so talk to me. So you, what age did you start in 2016? How old were you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was 16 years old.
Speaker 1:So you started at 16 and then you go to college maybe two, three years later, and so it was so. Even only two or three years in, you saw, oh, I can do this, like really do this.
Speaker 1:You're going to regionals and even had a path like thinking about I want to do this as a full-time life, I want soccer to be my life. That's pretty amazing. Was there something that happened, or was there a certain mentor who saw something in you, or did you have a certain experience where, oh yeah, no, this is it. I want to go as far as I can go. I want to go national. I want to go pro.
Speaker 2:I think it was really a culmination of experiences. I had the awareness at the time which a lot of 18-year-olds didn't, but I had the awareness that, being a D2 backup, I probably wasn't going to ever see a professional mat on my career and that was something that really meant a lot to me. I love being involved with this sport. I love experiencing it as high of a level that I'm capable of and for me, I realized that while I was a decent player, that I could make it to a higher level as a referee and I had some personal mentors I was lucky enough to have early in my career who were like, yeah, if you put the time into this, you're going to get out what you put in, and if you really want to get something out of this, then you really got to put something into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's fantastic and just real quick, just for everyone out there. So where are you based and where did your referee journey begin? What part of the country are you in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I live in Denver, Colorado. Now I went to high school in a small town outside the city, some town, small local club. That's where I started reffing. For me it meant getting a lot of the older age groups really on in my career. So it was really like a birth by fire. I was like, hey, I'm either going to quit tomorrow or I'm going to have a good time on this game. And I kept having good times on game. Then turned into better games and more good times.
Speaker 1:That's wild. And so you made it to regional. And how long have you been a national referee now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this year 2025, it's my second year as a national referee. I first got it in 2024. I was 24 years old. For me, it was really a capstone type of achievement. It was something where, when I made the decision not to play in college, I was like this is a risk. I might not make it further than the level I have available to me in that right now. And I took that risk and I went on and now I'm officiating better college games than I ever would have played in, and certainly better To be where I am now. I feel like I should be the most grateful person in the universe.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. A couple of things I want to unpack there. First off, again just a reminder for anyone who might be listening to this who's referee? Curious. If you love the game, there is no better seat than being a referee, like it is literally the next best thing and actually probably usually a better thing than actually being a player. Because if you're a player, okay, you're just a goalkeeper, you're in goal and I'm a goalkeeper.
Speaker 2:I love goalkeepers but if you're a striker, you're up top.
Speaker 1:If you're a defender, you're in the back, whatnot? If you're right back, you're right back. But as a referee, you get to be everywhere, on every part of the pitch and experience every phase of play, which is so cool. I think it's fantastic. The second thing I just want to observe Kate, you're 24 years old, 25 now, you're 25. Isn't that kind of young for a national referee? I feel like the national refs that I've met. They're usually a few years older, maybe in their later 20s or early 30s. Are you relatively on the young side to be a national ref?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm definitely on the younger side, especially more last year than this year. It's hard to say as much now because they split us up into multiple national camps whereas they used to have one, so you don't get to see every face and you don't put every face to a name, especially if you don't get to work with them during the professional season. Um, but I'd say for the most part, yeah, that ridge age in there, probably 30, early 30s, we're right in there. The year I got it last year there were probably 10 or so people around my age, hard to say, but my eyeball.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an amazing achievement. Again, for anyone who doesn't know if you're a national referee, you are in the top 0.5% of referees, In the extreme upper end of referees of the referee pyramid. The only way to go from here is to become a pro, is to make it pro two and pro one in the NWSL and MLS and all that kind of stuff. So just briefly, what type of matches are you repping right now as a national referee? What is common for you to be assigned to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's really a mixture. Mostly it depends on what's in your area. For me that's a USL championship and MLS Next Pro. I'll do a fair amount of those for officials locally. I travel a lot for tournaments, for family, for other reasons I've been able to opt into one or two matches here and there just to get some variety, the biggest thing being just a second year national is being ready for that opportunity to have the whistle at that level. I haven't had it yet, but I've been taking every single game that I have as a fourth official, whether it's pro assigned, whether it's open cup, whether it's a friendly and learning learning from these really qualified referees that I get the privilege of working with.
Speaker 1:So you get whistles for college matches, obviously, and for NCAA matches D2, D1, things of that nature. But that USL championship, MLS, Next Pro, that's your next level that you're looking to start taking the whistle for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the next goal.
Speaker 1:That's cool, that's awesome. So talk to me a little bit. So you talked about the travel, right? So as a national, I'm a regional referee, but certainly a national referee For college. They're certainly having you travel. They'll put you on a plane, they'll take you different places, but that also means that you've gone to regionals, that you've probably gone to nationals, that you're going to the MLS Next Fest, you're going to Dallas Cup and these competitions. Can you talk about that travel and why it's important to travel or what you get out of that kind of travel?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:I'll start with my personal experience.
Speaker 2:My first travel tournament was President's Cup Regionals in the far west here in Colorado, so we had it in Salt Lake City, and that was my first time really experiencing the whole leave where you are to referee. For me that was such a strange concept. I'd never realized that there's a whole ladder and journey for this referee progress that as players you hardly ever notice, and so for me that was a really eye-opening event. Recognizing that was something that was even possible for someone at my level, and once I had a taste of it I wanted more.
Speaker 2:After President's Cup it was NCS regionals, after that it was President's Cup nationals, after that it was youth nationals, it was every other ECNL event, mls, next, da, when that was a thing, girls Academy, the list goes on. And I was lucky enough just last year to go on a trip to London with US Youth Soccer. For me that was never something that I thought was going to be in the cards for me just from refereeing games, and for me that was really eye-opening in that the doors that you open, the opportunities that come to you you can never really expect when or what they're going to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would just imagine too. So I've had the pleasure of being to regionals as a referee, and the class of referee that you're surrounded by when you go to some of these premier events, it's just, it's so eyeopening, so refreshing, and when I went to regionals for the first time, my gosh, my level went up like by two, three, x when I came back not only just seeing those other professional referees and how professional they take things, how seriously they take things, but then, the mentoring that you get at these big events and tournaments that like even in the morning, like for breakfast, when they're talking about the day and areas of focus and things of that nature.
Speaker 1:It's just there's just constant growth opportunities, but your first big travel to Salt Lake City. If I'm counting the years right, you were what? 19, 18, 19 years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was 18 years old and that was my first time really experiencing any kind of professional environment with refereeing I think you touched on it the referees that you surround yourself with.
Speaker 2:You pick a lot of things up from them, even if you don't realize it, and being able to associate yourself with those higher level referees, you pick up a lot more things than you even realize. And I think the mentors at the events always play a huge role. That's one of the reasons that I attribute to being able to get my national badge at such an early age. I got in front of as many national referee coaches as I could and I took each and every one of their feedback. Even if it was something that I didn't realize I needed in the moment, I still listened and took the feedback, took notes and I reflected on it. And at the end of the day, I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for all of those mentors on top of the assigners.
Speaker 2:You don't even realize it but say you're coming up through the youth ranks, you go to regionals. There's an assigner there. Maybe that assigner assigned some UPSL or NPSL or USL2 games back in their state. I've fallen back on those relationships personally to go get an assessment out of state, go get a challenging game in some place where you don't know the teams, you don't know the teams, you don't know how they play, and get some feedback from a high level referee coach.
Speaker 1:I think it goes a long way. I think that's such like wise words because I often get asked how do you move up, how do I get to regionals and how do I get these higher level games? A lot of times it's who you know. To be honest, it might not be necessarily how great of a referee you, but who knows about it and who's actually seen you work. Can you briefly just talk about that as you move up right now? You talked about getting the assignments to these different things. What does your traveling specifically? When you travel, how does that help you build like connections and network to be able to move up and advance to?
Speaker 2:be able to move up and advance. Yeah, totally. I'll start with the connections, and I'll start with the least obvious one, and that one's with other referees. People don't realize this, but especially as you put yourself in more and more challenging situations as a referee, you need to have a support network. I couldn't emphasize enough the importance of having a functional support network Someone that you can talk to after a game went wrong, someone that you can just get their advice about a weird situation, someone who can be like hey, I'm here for you whenever you missed a call and you just want a shoulder to lean on, because we're not gods. We're all going to miss calls and the only thing that I can guarantee for you if you keep roughing is that you're going to make another mistake.
Speaker 2:So the connections with other referees is really important and, beyond the support network, just having friendships with people from all different parts of the country. You can use those friendships to go do a tournament some other time or go do some adult games or just hang out with friends that you've made. I think that the friendships that I've made in my referee career have really contributed a lot towards my missing hunger to stay involved and active in the communities, beyond referee connections, I'd probably say mentors, referee coaches, referee mentors, national referee coaches at all levels. If they're there at a tournament, they're already showing that they're willing to give whatever it takes to help referees. It's really a selfless thing for them to be out there and helping each and every one of us. It's foolish not to take that opportunity to really pick their brains and really get their advice and not just get it but take it and apply it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hear you, I think that's so wonderful. The support network thing is real. I hear you, I think that's so wonderful. The support network thing is real, like every single referee that I've spoke to at the regional or national level talks about mentors and talks about fellow referees finding someone that will give you real feedback, real honest feedback, but also just be there to listen and give opinions. I've had so many people who have dropped out of the game years ago, but they've said to me man, I wish you were around when I was a ref just to have someone to talk to or someone to bounce something off of, or to get feedback or something of that nature. It's so important for success. So let's talk briefly about Travel Ref now. This is kind of an interesting thing because I feel like it's something that's been needed for a long time. I'm not sure why someone hasn't done it previously. So let's talk about this Like what is it? What inspired you to do it and how does it work?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I traveled the country for more than five years Year-round, gone to all these youth tournaments, taking every opportunity that came, and and I, throughout the process, every single tournament I went to, I'd have referees that come up to me after a game. Maybe we're in the ref tent. Hey, how do you travel for these tournaments? I heard you travel six months a year. This tournament, that tournament I want to know how to do that.
Speaker 2:And whatever level tournament I'm at high level, low level I have people that come and ask me this question, whether it's people who are just trying to take a trip for fun or people who are trying to move up and are hungry and ambitious. And the same thing came for signers. Every event, whether it's MLS next or whether it's a state league tournament, we're always like, hey, we need more reps. It's evident because people are picking up games, because people are hurt because they're working so many games in a day. I think having more referees at a lot of these events could really help referees get a lot more out of the match, which is something that tournaments would love to see. And I spent so long stirring in all of this. Oh man, I wish I could help more people than just the people I cross paths with, and I wish there was something for them. And that's when it clicked. I was like let's make something for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's fantastic. Not only are referees outrageously overworked at these tournaments, but also there are a lot of referees who get put into matches that shouldn't be put into matches, because there's just not enough refs to go around. You have 16 year old kid reffing a U17 final. Yeah, they didn't have anyone else to ref.
Speaker 2:Go ahead Go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, please, I. But I've seen it like literally, I've seen it. I've been to these tours. I went to a huge tournament, my son in virginia, and they had some little kid. We were, I think, a u13 academy team and they had some. I kid you not. I think this kid was 12 or 13 years old and they sent him to this field to referee this tournament final with no ARs.
Speaker 1:Oh man, it was like I, literally I was like kid listen, I'll be an AR for you, no problem, I got you or whatever, but this poor child, but there just weren't enough referees to go around. So I I definitely sense the need, without a doubt. I know that it's there. So, okay, so you have this thing. People are coming up to you asking you hey, how do you travel? How do you do this? You're organizing a way for people to travel to these tournaments, but what are you trying to do, like, how do you think it could have an impact on referees, tournaments, mentors, by giving them this system, this platform, to be able to go around the country to go to these different tournaments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great question and I hope there's an impact in several different ways. The first way is referees that were in my position. They were ambitious, they were hungry, they wanted to find the best opportunities available to them so that they could push themselves as hard as they could and grow, grow as referee. I think that's. A large portion of our community is people who want to move up, people who want to improve. No one referees to get rich right. We're all in it for one reason or another and I think for a lot of us, it's that pursuit of being the best that we can be. And I think, for a lot of those referees especially who are newer to the community, newer to the concept of doing these tournaments, I think this could provide a lot of opportunities for them and access the places that they want but don't really have a means of finding on their own, at least not without going through several webpages.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be hard to find the information when you go to tournament websites and look those things up, and then it's a one-off type thing. You don't know. Are they taking out of state referees? Are they paying for hotels? How am I going to get around if I fly there, or something in nature? Who would I be rooming with? There's just a lot of questions that come up, and so I think making this, facilitating this and making it easy for people to do is going to be a huge win. So talk to me about where you're at right now. So this is a relatively new thing, I think. I think Bowen and I we only met just in the last week or two ago. Where are you right now? I'm Bo, and we only met just in the last week or two ago. Where are you right now? Is it launched? When do you launch? When are the first tournaments that you're going to be looking to sign people up to go travel to different places?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we officially launched two weeks ago, meaning that Congratulations. Doing everything that we can to get this officially up and off the ground. We have six tournaments signed up for the month of May. We have a few more tournaments later on, which I don't want to announce yet so I don't spoil it. But we have lots of people that want to be involved with us referee, mentors, referee coaches, level referees and high-level assigners and our biggest thing right now is showing to everybody across this summer season that's coming up that you know this works and it's something that can help your community. And it's something that can help referees, no matter where they're at, whether they're someone who's trying to get in front of national coaches or whether there's someone who wants to have their first experience traveling and wants to go somewhere cool and have fun with their friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think honestly, like in my situation. So my kids are almost all out of high school now. Yes, they'll be home for the summer, thankfully. Oh my gosh, I got my elder son back from Clemson and my daughter doesn't go to Alabama till the fall and I have my younger one here for another year or so. I started thinking about, okay, when they go like they're going to be in the fall and in the spring and they're in college and stuff hey, maybe if it's really hot here in, like August or September or whatnot, wouldn't it be fun to go do a tournament and say Colorado, or go do a tournament and say Oregon or Alaska and during the winter months go down to Miami or go you know some other place that might be a little bit warmer? I think there's a lot of opportunities for almost referee tourism to go experience different places and go to different locations, geographies, but also different cities, to go out and find a different place. I think there might be a market for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I feel like part of my realization of that was being part of it. I was a broke 20-year-old referee who was like, ah man, Florida sounds great. Now it's snowing feet on feet here and I have no games to ref. I went and go to Florida and did some high-level game feedback and I was able to stay in touch throughout the winter when there weren't really any games to do locally. It gave me that much more of an edge going into the spring season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I did a national league like invitational tournament in Orlando and I worked with a bunch of Northern referees, guys from Michigan who were freezing their butt off up in Michigan. Come down to Orlando in December. They were having a blast, they loved it, yeah, yeah. So what about? So let's say, people do decide to go, whether they're young or my age mature, I don't want to say old, I don't want to say old, but I'm mature.
Speaker 2:I'm mature, yes.
Speaker 1:I'm on the other side of 50 now, which is good. I'm experienced, I'm mature and experienced. But let's say they do want to go, but they want to get better as a ref. Are there going to be mentor opportunities, development opportunities at every tournament they go to? How is it going to go beyond? Okay, I'm just going to a different location and I'm going to go pick up some other games. What else is there for referees at these tournaments?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we're encouraging most of the events that we are hosting to bring referee coaches if they don't already have their own. Obviously, that's not a possibility in every case. And the lower level tournaments? Sure, that tournament's for fun, but our goal is to have the majority of our tournaments have a referee mentor or a referee coach, whether we send them or whether it's something that the tournament already provides.
Speaker 2:Down the road, we have the thoughts of sending higher and higher level referee coaches to these higher level events just to help our referee pool, as something to give back to those referees who shun that ambition. Our goal is to give back to those referees who've shown that ambition. Our goal is to have the opportunities for referees at every level and that includes the academy and the premier levels, especially for those referees that show that they're ready for that kind of challenge and they can be successful in that kind of environment. We'll be actively looking at the feedback and analyzing how referees are doing at these events so that we can help these referees find the best spot for them to be their next step, hopefully creating a more hands-on approach to creating an environment for the referees to be as successful as they can be in their growth in their career and in their own personal lives.
Speaker 1:That's cool, so talk to me now. So you've got a platform. It's travelrefcom. So this is probably a question a lot of people are wondering okay, does it cost me anything? So if I'm a ref and I want to go sign up on travelrefcom to see where all the tournaments are and potentially sign up for tournaments, are you charging me money to go sign up on your website to do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's a great question. Our product or our service is a hundred percent free for referees. Once you go in and sign up, we'll create a profile on our website. We start sending you applications to the tournaments. If you follow preferences, we can help find the best tournaments that fit your preferences, and the referee here is the resource, and I, as a referee myself, I never want to take advantage of referees and I've made it really important that we create this for all referees, not just referees who want to be part of that kind of structure where you have to pay to get certain opportunities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's wonderful and that's a big deal. So what are the resources does Travel Ref provide or hope to provide over time as you start sending people out to these tournaments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, most of these are going to be hope to provide. Right now we're brand new. We're doing everything we can, but some of the things that we're already doing is we're creating that relationship with the assigner for you. We take all the information that you've given us and we portray that in a way that the assigner can put you in the best situation that you can be in. And then, beyond that, we're tracking how the tournament goes. We want to help have an interactive approach to how this is going to be for you as your personal experience. And some things that we're hoping to integrate as we get down the road is maybe referee programs, where you can apply with us to a tournament. We found a referee mentor with that group of referees to really help those referees with an interactive approach where the referee coach is there because they've proven that they're appropriate for that level tournament, and so are the referees.
Speaker 1:So you've traveled to a lot of tournaments, so do you have any tips for traveling referees? You know what to avoid. Best practices.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So whenever you're traveling as a referee, there's a lot of things that you don't think about right off the bat, especially if it's your first time traveling as a referee. And the biggest thing and that would be professionalism A lot of people don't realize that off the field you're also representing yourself as a referee To all the other referees that's at that tournament, to the assigners, the admin, even the teams, especially if they recognize you from the field and then they see you in the hotel. You really need to get yourself into the headspace of yes, it's okay to make friends have a little bit of fun, but whenever I'm traveling as a referee, I'm representing myself professionally and I think as you move up into the higher levels, that becomes more and more relevant. So it's really important to set a good foundation with that so that you can be prepared for whenever it has bigger implications than it does in that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's great advice. That's great advice Any things like. I know sunscreen's like a given, but are there any like little things that you have that have just made it into your bag over this 10 year journey when you travel that?
Speaker 2:you've got. Oh, I'm so glad you asked and this probably isn't going to be the first thing you think of Gloves. It can be cold anywhere in the country. I've been in Florida where there's frost on the grass. It can be cold anywhere. Just it can be hot anywhere. You know, always have at least one layer if it's not summer, and always have sunscreen, like you mentioned. I couldn't emphasize that enough electrolytes. You live someplace dry, like me, and then you travel someplace humid, like the Southeast, in the summer. That's going to be a change and you need to make sure that you're focused on your needs first, because you can't be successful unless you're physically there and prepared and ready for the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's nothing worse. Unfortunately, here in Georgia, when our season starts in August in Georgia, with 85% humidity and it's 95 degrees outside and it feels like 110 on a turf pitch, well, let me tell you, that will wear you out. I have literally lost. Like literally.
Speaker 1:My son was my AR for this game, so this must be four years ago and we had a stoppage in play and he just came up to me like on the pitch. He like came onto the field, called me over. He was like you need to get ahold of yourself, figure out what's going on, get focused, stay focused in the next two minutes, get the calls right, cause I had missed, like you know, like throwing calls going the wrong direction, like just really slow on my whistle on a couple like fouls that needed a hard whistle. He's get a hold of yourself, man. But my brain was just melted. It was so hot and so humid that I I was really losing the ability to concentrate and be completely in on play. And, thankfully, when your own son, who's 16 years old, is telling their 46 year old dad dude, get it together, you get it together. You're like all right, this is I got to get this together and wind up being fine the rest of the match. But, man, that heat will take it out of you, that is for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and first thing goes your body. You lose your mind right after that.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you, man, it was gone, it was gone, it was gone All right. So how do people like follow up? Where do they go? Where do they sign up to start getting involved and start seeing some of these opportunities through TravelRef?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can go to our website super simple, travelrefcom. There's a referee page buttons on the homepage too. Referee sign up takes you to a Google form. That's where you give us all the information that you want us to know. That helps us find the right tournaments for you, find the right opportunities for you, and then the next step for you is just press the apply button on the one that looks right for you, fill out a few more questions and we take it to the assigner. Each tournament has its own deadline so you'll know when to hear by. We try to stick pretty close to that so people can plan their travel. We're upfront with what the tournament provides. There's hotels, food, travel stipend, referee mentors, that type of deal. And yeah, it's pretty simple from that standpoint.
Speaker 1:I got to tell you, man, there are a couple. I'm on your website right now looking at this. You got Miami, salt Lake City, colorado. You got Durango, colorado, you got Sioux Falls, south Dakota my gosh, south Dakota. There's all sorts of cool places to go here and that's just what you've got in May. So there's some cool things to go. Take a go, take a trip, go experience a whole new, like soccer culture. And I can tell you again I I'm just going to say this, my personal experience going in New York city, going and you say it like teams you've never roughed before fields, you've never roughed that before, not knowing what to expect, and going in there and doing a good job out of it, man, I tell you, it gives you a whole new level of confidence. It's like, yeah, I can do this.
Speaker 1:I can do this. I can be a good ref, no matter where it is. You know it doesn't have to be in my comfortable backyard the fields I've refed at for years I can go do. It really does change you as a referee and again getting to meet other referees you've never worked with before. But that is so cool, all right.
Speaker 1:So one thing I do want to say, though when people do go to your website, there is a question on there is like how did you hear about this? So I'm going to ask everyone please put in that you heard about us, heard about Traveller through. Refs need love. To just put it in there. Put it, david Gerson refs need love too. That would be wonderful. We want to track how many people are hearing about it through this podcast and through my channel, but I really do hope that people give it a shot and try to go ref in some different places. Sign up and go have a new experience. I think it'd be a wonderful thing. Yo, my man Bowen, thank you so much for being on today's pod. I really do appreciate the conversation, man, and I wish you all the best with Travel Ref and I wish all the best for all those referees who decide to travel and have a new experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, david, thank you so much for having me. It's been great to have this conversation. I love your perspectives and your question and I really hope that you're able to help me help as many people as possible, whether those are referees, signers, referee mentors. I just want to help the community with this tool as much as we really can, and I feel like you're a big part of that. So thanks for the time.
Speaker 1:Oh man, it's my pleasure I tell you. I tell this to people all the time, man, I support referees who are doing good things to support other referees, whether it's Leland Grant with Piro or my friend Paul Risdell who created the ProRef scorecards on my website, there are just all sorts of referees who are doing good things for other referees. Yes, there are referee mentors, referee coaches, all that type of stuff. There are some people who are creating whole new platforms to be able to support referees in their growth and their journey and hopefully be able to have the same great experiences that you've had and I've had traveling to different places as a referee. Well, I hope everyone really appreciated.
Speaker 1:To today's pod I again traveling for tournaments to get higher level games, challenge yourself or simply go see another part of the country to ref can be like a mysterious process, and that's what Bowen and travel rep is trying to demystify and make fun and easy for everyone. So definitely go to TravelRefcom register, go have a referee adventure this summer next year, you name it. Just go do it, have fun and let me know how you enjoy it. I can't wait to hear, but I think you will benefit from it. Also, please support the Ref's Need Love To online store. It's tax season, okay, tax day is coming up and purchases are potentially tax deductible, that's right. The scorecards are rewritable and potentially a write-off. That is a joke. But also not a joke. Referee essentials such as scorecards, flags and coins it's equipment for your job, man that is potentially tax deductible. Definitely go online, check it out. Everything you purchase gets poured back into making this channel possible. And, as always, I hope your next match is red card free.