REFS NEED LOVE TOO
An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.
REFS NEED LOVE TOO
Inside Sunday League with Eric Edge from "Behind The Whistle"
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Ever wonder what a referee actually says to defuse tenssions—or how it feels to make a split-second call with no assistants and 22 players demanding an answer? We sit down with Eric Edge, the former semi-pro goalkeeper behind the viral channel Behind The Whistle, to unpack the real craft of Sunday League officiating: honesty that cools tempers, foul selection that protects the game, and transparency that turns critics into collaborators.
Eric explains why he films every match and posts full breakdowns, not as a highlight reel but as a learning lab. We explore safe refereeing—giving the decision football expects in high-risk areas—without smothering the flow, and how early, consistent thresholds prevent escalation. From the sin bin’s deterrent power to the difference between a quick outburst and persistent dissent, Eric shows how calm language, private chats, and a little humor can steer volatile adult matches back on course.
We go inside the unique chaos of club linesmen: when they elevate credibility by flagging against their own team, and when poor positioning or bias forces tough overruls. We talk fitness demands that rival box-to-box midfielders, the mental bandwidth needed to keep angles and advantage straight, and the way tech—video, body cams, and, where allowed, comms—can protect officials and teach the next generation the “gold” of game management dialogue. Elite support, from former UEFA and World Cup officials, highlights a broader shift toward accountability and empathy.
If you’re a player on the fence about refereeing, Eric makes a compelling case: you’ll rediscover the buzz, build community, and use your feel for contact to excel with the whistle. We also share practical resources—from gear that saves your feet to smarter assigning tools—that make long Saturdays workable and safer. Subscribe, share this story with a teammate who argues every call, and leave a review with your biggest officiating takeaway—what part of the referee’s job do you see differently now?
But the difference is when you play, for most people, they've played the sport their entire life. Or maybe from at least the time they were six or seven or eleven or twelve, whatever. Like they've played the game at some point. So there's some element of that it's just second nature to you, what you're doing, you've been around it so much. I think people forget, like nobody grows up refereeing. Nobody's been refereeing since they were six. So you start out and it's like a completely new skill. You're tired, you're stressed, and you're trying to make a decision. Like it's so difficult, especially when a lot of these referees are either really young, like 14, getting into referee, or they're people that are older, right, that no longer play and they want to give back to the game, and they're in like their 60s, 70s, some of them even. Yeah, it's really remarkable how people do it, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00:We've got an absolute treat for you today, guys. I interviewed Eric Edge. And you might not know his name, but you know his channel. If you follow me on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook, you've probably seen his videos too. He runs the channel behind the whistle, and he is an English Sunday League referee, if you will. And I say Sunday League not in a negative or pejorative. I mean it's hard work out there. He was a player for many years and then became a referee. He was a goalkeeper, which goalkeepers make refere referees. And it's so interesting hearing his story and watching what he does out there as a referee, as a single referee. They don't have assigned assistant referees for the overwhelming majority of his matches and the lessons that he's learned along the way. I think you're gonna love this conversation. He's a wonderful guy. I'm really thrilled that I've become friends with him through social media and now get to share his story with you. Guys, before we get into his podcast episode, now is the time to invest in your feet. I gotta tell you, as referees, it's like your car. You got bald tires on your car, you got flat tires, you ain't going anywhere, or it's gonna be a pretty bad experience. Feet is a big deal for me. Like in my shop, I've got brand new compression socks that I've designed with the highest quality materials. I could literally find literally any more of the compression that it would have been having to grade the socks as medical grade. But it's a gradual compression, so it's not hard on your feet, it's just like wonderful on your feet. And then I added the grip on the bottom of the socks too, so you're not sliding around and you can cut and move like you like to. Head to my store, refsneedlove2.com. But then on your feet, you know, what's gonna be on the ground? Umpiros, um, P-I-R-O, head to officialsports.com, use my code refsneed love2, all one word, uppercase, please. I know I've tested it, it works. And you get 10% off on your Umpiros. You will not be sad. Man, you take care of your feet, you're gonna be in pretty good shape out there. And lastly, one more sponsor I want to just like make you guys aware of Refer Sports. I am so sick and tired of assigning platforms that are confusing and difficult to utilize. There's no reason for it anymore. In the year 2026, that's right, it's 2026, you know, it should be designed to be app based. If you go to the website, it should be intuitive. It should be easy to find out who's on your crew and contact them right away. It should be easy to get paid electronically, right to your account. You know, all the things, the game information you're looking for should be right there. Refer Sports has designed a better mousetrap. And I really, really encourage if you are an assigner or you're part of a board, a you know, an assigning association out there, encourage them to check out Refer Sports. I mean, there's like literally no cost to transition to it, and you'll instantly be on the cutting edge of assigning technology. If you're using Arbiter or some homegrown piece of crap, now's the time to change. Refersports R-E-F-R sports. You can find them online, tell them I sent you. And now for the show. Hello and welcome to the Refsneed Love2 Podcast, a show that gives you a real, raw, and behind-the-scenes view of one of the hardest jobs on the pitch, the referee. I'm your host, David Gerson, a grassroots referee and certified mentor, now a mentor plus. With over 11 years of experience and over 1400 matches under my belt, you can find me at refsneadlove2.com, on Instagram, on TikTok, and now on YouTube. Today we are going to be interviewing one of my favorite channels on social media right now, Eric, the creator behind, the creator of Behind the Whistle, that's what it's called. A former professional goalkeeper, who are always great referees, who spent years inside the game experiencing football under pressure. After stepping away from playing, Eric took an unconventional path, swapping the gloves for the whistle to see the game from a completely different angle. Now, an active referee, Eric is working his way up the officiating ladder with a clear ambition to reach the professional game, big goals. Through Behind the Whistle, he shares the reality of refereeing week in and week out, pressure of big decisions, scrutiny that comes with authority, and the moments that test composure when everything's on the line. It's an honest behind-the-scenes look at a side of football most people never see. What makes Eric's journey compelling is that it's unfolding in real time. Rather than speaking from the top, he documents the process as he moves up, the setbacks, the learning, and the drive to prove himself in a different role. Behind the whistle is about more than refereeing. It's about leadership, accountability, and performing under pressure when there's nowhere to hide. Eric, man, welcome to the pod. Man, thanks for having me. So excited. I appreciate it. Oh man, you're excited. I'm excited. I think it's so fun when I get to interview people that legitimately I'm a fan of. I kid you not. While I was sitting here waiting for this to go, I was just like scrolling TikTok a little bit, and one of your videos popped up. And it's man, it's such a great video. So can I just set the scene and just tell you real quick? So the video that I just saw, the one you recently posted, was a situation where, again, you're a referee. This is uh for lack of a better term, adult men's competitive matches, right? In England, and you are a single referee, you don't have proper assistance, you got club linesmen, and there are some shenanigans that happen behind the play, pushing and shoving, words being said, but you live legitimately don't see it because the play has switched fields. And in the video, and I'm sorry, I'm still in a little bit, but in the video, you show the reality of taking these two players aside. You didn't see what happened, and you're like, hey guys, I did see it. And you're being honest and transparent, but I know something happened. Hey, just I don't want to have to send you off. Can you guys like not do that or whatever? And the words are used, but it was like so calm, and you took them. You're dealing with adult men who can be really upset. And it's gosh, I tell you, Eric, it's a side of the game that no one sees. Can you talk to us about that moment and what you were thinking at that time?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You're right. Like nobody ever gets to see how referees actually interact with players. So I always try and relay what it is I'm saying to players and what they're saying to me so people can get a feel for it, even though we're not technically allowed to wear a microphone during the game. Yeah, basically that that game was my first game in a new division. So that was the the second lowest level you can referee at in England. So I'd only been refereeing about six months at this point, and that was my first game in a new division. And the game was starting to get like very heated. I probably wasn't quite equipped enough for that level of match. It was like a local derby, very physical game out in what we call the forest. And yeah, I'd heard this commotion. These guys are obviously tussing, I don't see it. And I basically said, You two come here, not knowing at all who it was. And the one guy started walking over to me, and then he points at the other guy as if to say, like, you've caused this, and so I know exactly who they both are. And I just said, I was like, guys, I'll be honest with you, I haven't seen it, but I know that something has happened based on the commotions. Basically, if I see anything like that at all, like any kind of physical violence, then I'll have to send you off. Can we just shake hands and get on with it? So they shake hands, pat each other on the back, and off we go. And I think it just showed like how down to earth football can be. And if you haven't seen it, you can just say you haven't seen it, and players will respect you more than trying to make things up.
SPEAKER_00:Oh brother, can I just tell you how unbelievably refreshing that is? First off, again, I just want to say for all my American colleagues here, we're talking to a guy who has only been refereeing for six months, but he is doing competitive men's matches in England, and he's got these type of game management skills. Like game management is something that takes many years to develop for most referees, but you're coming from playing semi-professional football. So you almost know, hey, I want to be the referee these guys don't have. Can you talk to us a little bit about this channel you have behind the whistle? Again, it's on YouTube, it's on TikTok, it's on Instagram, wherever social media videos are found. Talk to us about what it is that you do there. For those who haven't followed your channel, haven't watched your videos, like I have religiously for the last six months. What are you doing there? Tell us about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so to put it simply, I basically film every single match that I referee. And then on the YouTube channel, I break down every decision that's worth talking about. I talk about it. So I share basically what I'm learning, what I do well, what I do not so well, and basically all the things I'm learning week to week. That's the simplest form. And then on the short form TikTok, Instagram side, there are shorter breakdowns that naturally don't give as much context because you don't have the time, but it just shows every decision that I make during a game that's worth showing. Um the reason I started it was because now I've been refereing for two years and I've been doing the channel for over over a year now. And when I started to referee, like most people, I went to the internet to find out bits and bobs, how to learn, what should I be doing, what do I need to take to my first game, like all these things that you think of when you're a new official. And to be frank, there's not a lot out there at all. I could probably name on one hand the amount of creators there are that actually do this. And so me and my friend Nick, who I run the channel with, were talking, and we were like, man, if we want, if we're looking for help and it's not out there, why don't we just create our own channel, document the journey, and then hopefully, one players can see what I was thinking, and maybe that'll have a bit more grace about my mistakes. And two, maybe other officials will want to watch and it'll help them feel more confident, set up some answers they've got. And so, yeah, we decided to just start ourselves and that's been it. So for the past year, I've filmed every single men's football match that I've done and put it online.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I tell you, and for those who haven't seen it, again, I'm just telling you, you're gonna want to look up behind the whistle right now on YouTube and on tick on TikTok, Instagram, whichever platform you're on, because you're not just posting your highlight reel of your great calls. You're actually posting like these are challenging scenarios. Like this happened, I wasn't in a good position. Hey, then this happened afterwards. There's a lot of things to consider. And again, it's not a glory channel. Hey, look at me. It's reality, it's honesty, it's transparency. And I think that's what makes it so good. As a fellow referee, Eric, I watch this and I'm like, oh man, I've so been in that scenario, and it's just so valuable to me. But beyond referees, when you do this, do you get engagement from managers, from players, from spectators? What are they saying about what you do?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I get engagement for everybody in the game, everybody that's involved in football, any type of role you could take up in football. I've had I've met them, spoke to them, had feedback from them. The messages are really mixed. For the most part, they're really positive. I never ever had an issue with players, maybe one time in one match, but for the most part, players actually really respect what I do and even helps because there are games that I turn up to where I don't know anybody, and they're like, You're the ref that does the videos. And I'm like, Yeah, and they're like, Oh no, I really love what you do. And suddenly you've got a relationship with that player on the pitch now. Managers, for the most part, are really happy because a lot of what people say is that referees at the lower levels have no like accountability, right? There's no one there watching them, all they get is the feedback from the clubs, and a lot of people think the clubs are biased anyway, so do they really take into account what they're saying about referees? So it's like if you're gonna film your game and put it all online, you know, fair play to you things. Um so yeah, I get it from get feedback from a lot of people. Not everybody's a fan. People think because you're filming the game, you're trying to make it about yourself. But I always say if you took half an hour out of your day to watch my videos, you'd see very quickly that's not the case.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, I absolutely love it. I think it's so good. And it's it's again, what you're doing, that's okay. Can we just address that comment? It's all about you. That's such a common trope, like tripe. I forget, I don't know what the right word is, trope maybe, but it's like it's such a common refrain that people say that. It's like you there are moments in the time you do want it to be about me when you need me to make a call, a big call. But 95% of a match, I'm silent. I'm just there as a facilitator and an observer. Again, what you're doing is you're showing the realities of being a referee at this level, and that mistakes do happen. And yes, we do miss things, and that's a part of it. And we're normalizing that, which is so cool. And of course, what you're doing is humanizing the referee, which is so important to you, that you are a human being, that you do have emotions and feeling, and you're sensitive to what's going on out there. I will tell you, man. So you mentioned the haters, which by the way, there's always gonna be haters. Eric, you've gotten to meet like professional referees now, like Premier League refs, FIFA referees are now participating in your channels. Obviously, someone in England is saying, hey, this guy's doing good work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I guess that's the power of the internet. Like we live in such a crazy time that you can post a video online and you can reach millions of people. It's just absolutely I'll never wrap my head around it, I don't think. And yeah, so there's a guy called Jan, um Jan Peter, who used to be a UEFA assistant referee, and he reached out to me following one of the videos that he'd seen, and he was in England with his son doing a road trip around England watching Premier League football. And he was like, look, we have one day where I'm free. I'd be more than happy to come down and watch and give some feedback. And it's just, man, like that is insane. Like it's crazy. So yeah, I just feel I feel very honored, and it's really cool because another referee called Jonas Ericsson, who refereed in the World Cup, the Euros, the Europa League, like probably probably the best referee that Sweden has ever had, he messaged me on Instagram because he's seen a video and he sent me his book and encouraged me and saying that we need more transparency for the game. And just like the idea that these people are seeing the videos and they support it and they want to see and the game in general grow is just yeah, it's a real encouragement. It definitely helps when the negatives comment, where the negative comments come in, you obviously you just revert back to all the positive ones that you get because that's ultimately why we do it.
SPEAKER_00:A thousand percent. And my wife reminds me of that all every time because I'll get hate mail from time to time, and I'll be like, oh my gosh. Like, she's like, dude, you literally get like 99% of the comments I get are positive or the messages I get. Just focus on those. There's always going to be trolls. I'm curious though about your fellow referees or your local referee association. Are they also supportive of the videos? Because again, historically, everyone's just shut up, don't say anything, you're just there to ref and leave, don't comment. Have they been supportive of you too?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So my in England we have what are called county FAs, your state associations, but smaller. And my county FA, Gloucester, has been very supportive, very supportive, which is which has been wonderful. And they've even made the referee course more accessible price-wise for people in my county to take the course if they come through the channel, which has been brilliant. I had one league that the referee secretary threatened to take me off the league unless I stopped filming, as to which I basically said no, and the county FA supported it and basically said that obviously can't happen. Like he's completely within his rights to film if the club's give permission. Um but a lot of the a lot of the pushback I got from fellow referees was more for the fact that they were concerned for me, and it was more out of like fear, mate, they're gonna end well for you if you do this, which I completely understand and I appreciate them trying to protect me. But my experience so far is it's been 99% positive, and so I'm glad that I carried on. Even things like I post, I even post my observation reports. So anytime an observer comes out to watch me, I will post the entire report. I'll read through it all with everybody and show people how referees get graded, what the comments are like, and I was told you can't do that, that's a private document, etc. etc. Then you ask somebody and they're like, no, it's yours, you can do what you want with it. But it's just like a lot of unwritten rules that you're supposed to follow as a referee. But for me, you want to grow the game. I think you should show exactly what it's like. Show people what it's really, and then the people who are getting into it are not going to be surprised and shocked when they get there. They're gonna be more well equipped.
SPEAKER_00:I listen, I a thousand percent agree. I think the whole idea of us staying silent and not sharing our experiences only hurts referees. It hurts recruitment, it hurts development. You're stunting people's growth. We should be sharing the realities of what it's like to be a referee, the good, the bad, and sometimes the ugly. People empathize. I posted a video last night and it was like it was a throwaway video. I got in my car after freezing my butt off for four hours out on the pitch for my first high school match of the season. And I think I made a mistake because we're running, believe it or not. Okay, this can blow your mind in England. For high school in many associations in America, instead of a one single ref or a three ref system, a referee and two assistants, you run a dual referee system with two whistles, and you literally cover like an entire sideline in the middle of the pitch and halfway. So you got fouls and offside, but from these really weird angles. But bananas, I'm telling you. And my first games of the season, like the first 20 minutes, I'm just like, what the hell am I doing out here? I can't. I did record the match, so I can't wait to look at the video, but I'm scanning like a messy man. I'm not like constantly turning my head around, like every five seconds. Where am I supposed to be? What's going on? This is crazy. I was freezing my butt off. It was for in Celsius, it was like one or two degrees. So it was like 34, 35 degrees here. It was really cold and windy. And opposed to that, and people are like, oh man, like I totally feel you. Yeah, I've been there, all this kind of stuff. People want to know that other people are going through what their experience is because as a referee, it can be a really lonely thing, an isolating thing. You get assigned, you're an independent contractor, you go to the field and you leave, you know, and and yeah, there might be another referee, like in my situation. It's not like you're talking throughout the whole match. You're doing your job, they're doing their job, and then you leave. So it's nice to have a place to communicate and get see experience. I'm actually curious about your experience. Because you're still only a couple years out of being a player. Yeah. You know, when you first put on that referee badge after being a player, a goalkeeper, the best players there are. What surprised you the most when you became a referee?
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, you have to be so f I know it sounds ridiculous to someone that played football as a job, but as a goalkeeper, you don't do as much running as you'd expect. And I could not believe how much ground you need to cover to get into the positions that you need to get into. Um, you're running like anywhere between 7 to 11, maybe 12 kilometres a game, depending on the level that you do. And that a lot of that is walking and sprinting, so it's not like a nice continuous smooth jog, right? You'll be walking, you'll be sprinting, you'll be running backwards, sidestepping. Like there's so many different movements. And I just didn't realise how quick even the worst level of football is. Like when you watch it from the sideline, it feels so slow. You're like, wow, this is like watching paint dry. And then when you're in it, but it feels a hundred miles an hour. So it was really humbling because as a player, you think, man, can these referees not just get it right? And then you step out there and you're like, Whoa, yeah, this is a completely different kettle of fish. And suddenly I'm in charge, like they're all looking at me, like I know what I'm doing. It's yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I will say that the movement thing is a is fascinating. Just for those who are Americans and don't do your kilometers conversions very well, seven kilometers is about 4.3 miles. I'd like so last night in my high school match, the boys' match that I had, mind you, this was shortened halves a little bit because it was a scrimmage. And I'm dealing with a hamstring problem right now. And last night I could not get it loose. So this is without any high-level sprints. In one match, I did 5.62 miles, and that is all walking and jogging, not even like sprinting down the pitch, 5.62 miles, which I think is around eight or nine kilometers. And that's low level. I think what other people don't understand too is that in a low-level match, if you've got two teams that don't have great dribblers on the ball, well, then it's like kickball and it's like back and forth and back and forth, and you actually wind up running more in higher sprints sometimes than a higher level match where it's predictable and they have possession and it's like a patient buildup. That can be really crazy. I remember I had a mercy rule game in a high school match, a girls' game where they look, we call it mercy rule. That we literally stopped the game after 40 minutes because they scored like 12 goals in the first 40 minutes of the game at 12 to nothing. But I ran over three miles because literally the team who would kick off, who was awful, would kick it as far as they could, and then the other team would immediately go all the way back to the other pitch, like and I'm like running to keep up with play. It was crazy. So yeah, man, it the fitness thing will shock you, and it is a different kind of fitness, as you said, from anything else. It's not like a marathon runner, and it's certainly not explosive movements like a goalkeeper, it's like a box-to-box midfielder type of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it is so hard because, as well, it's the mental concentration that you also need to have, even though you're tired. And I know that players have to deal with that as well, which I know firsthand. But the difference is when you play, for most people, they've played the sport their entire life, or maybe from at least the time they were six or seven or eleven or twelve, whatever. Like they've played the game at some point. So there's some element of it, it's just second nature to. You, what you're doing, she've been around it so much. I think people forget like nobody grows up refereeing, nobody's been refereeing since they were six. So you start out and it's like a completely new skill. You're tired, you're stressed, and you're trying to make a decision. Like it's so difficult, especially when a lot of these referees are either really young, like 14, getting into refereeing, or they're people that are older, right, that no longer play and they want to give back to the game, and they're in like their 60s, 70s, some of them even. Yeah, it's really remarkable how people do it, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that is such an unbelievable insight that you just had about like soccer players again playing from three years old, four years old, something in nature. It's pretty innate and you never lose that skill. Us as referees, for many people who don't start until later in life, it's a completely new skill set. It's you're seeing the game from a completely different perspective. It is so different from being a player. That's a fact. But but talk to me about So you were a goalkeeper, again, the best player on the pitch by far, the most important player, the MVP. Um how has being a player or a goalkeeper, how do you think that has prepared you to be a referee?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a few ways. One, when you're a goalkeeper, you do work as part of a team, but ultimately you do work by yourself a lot as well. You'll train by yourself, you'll have your own separate coach sometimes, depending on the level you play at. So you're used to operating by yourself and equally in a match, you're very much the unsung hero as well, right? You do everything right, great, good job, well done. If you make something, if you make a mistake, then it's all your fault. We just lost one to nothing, and you let the ball through your legs like no one's ever going to forget that it was your fault. And I think that refereeing is very similar. If you do a relatively good job, you go unnoticed, not no no one really says much, they just say thank you. But if you make a mistake, it's the spotlight is on you very much. So I think the pressure of making mistakes is something I was used to and weirdly enjoy. But then two is the communication side of things. For me, it's like when playing as a goalkeeper, I was very much used to communicate with my team and you watch the game a lot more than a player would typically. You've got a lot more downtime. So read the game, talk to your players. And so I find that having played as a goalkeeper and just played in general, I feel like I can talk to the players in a way that they talk, in a way that they understand. It's a tough balance between using language that comes from law and then using language that players understand. I think that's an important skill to try and develop.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, man. It's so funny you said that line about you make a mistake and you know it's on you. Sometimes I enjoy that though. There is a certain type of person who wants the pressure on them, who wants it to be their responsibility, who wants to be on that line when you know you've got to come up with a big save. It is a it's a different type of person who chooses to be a goalkeeper and can handle the mental side of that. And I do think I've said this many times, I think goalkeepers make phenomenal referees for exactly the reasons that you listed there. I did have a question though. So I was perusing your YouTube channel and I came across a video title and a phrase that I'm very interested to hear your perspective on, okay? And I'm I just added this into my list of questions. You used a phrase called safe refereeing. Okay. And I've heard it used a couple of times, and I feel I have an understanding of what it means to me, but I've never discussed it with anyone. I would love to hear what you consider to be safe refereeing. And is that something that's discussed within England, within your local football association or referee association, as a advice to guide and encourage referees to do safe refereeing?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it means different things to different people. Never really heard the I've I'd heard the term when I started refereeing, but I didn't really grasp what it meant. And then I went to a referees meeting where a current championship referee, which is the second division in England, um, came to do a talk and the whole topic was on safe refereeing. He was called John Busby. And it was fascinating because again, what I think players and coaches and things don't realize is even referees have different styles, just like players do. For me, I'm not particularly a safe referee. If there's a foul and I could give a foul, I will still think, can I play advice here? Can I let the game carry on? Whereas some people will think there's a foul there, I'm just gonna stop the game, I'll give the game a chance to stop. I think the best referees will obviously pick and choose depending on the scenario. But for me, safe refereeing the way it's described is give a decision that doesn't allow basically anything controversial to happen and it be your fault, or two give whatever everybody here watching is expecting you to give. Don't do anything that's a surprise. So let's say defender is running back towards his goalkeeper with the ball and the attacker puts his hand on his back and it could be a push. Well, safe refereeing there would be give the foul because if he scores and it ends up being it should have been a foul, then that's a massive consequence whether rather than if you just give a defensive free kick, no one's gonna end up talking about that. So that's how I that's how I understand it. It's a concept that I'm trying to learn because it doesn't sit right with me all the time. I really think if sometimes I see something like it's not a foul. I don't care if everyone expects that to be a foul, like it's not a foul. But that's something that I'm learning, right? Like I said, I've only been doing it two years, I've got a lot to learn, but that's how I would interpret safe refereeing. Yeah. And I would say the best referees use it in the right context.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's so interesting. Foul selection is again, talk about one of these things that takes a long time to get comfortable with, right? Yeah. You know, when you're a player, everything against your team is a foul. Literally, how's that not a foul? How's it not a foul? And then obviously you never hear them advocating for fouls to be called against their team, right? But that is a it's a challenge. What is a foul? And then when is it a foul? Right? You brought up a really interesting scenario. So a defender in their defensive third, facing their own goals, getting a little bit of a push from behind, and maybe it's a continuous type of push in the middle of the field. You're waiting. You're waiting to see can they play it? Hey, it looks like they're fine with the contact. It's really not a big deal. Let it play on. But in their defensive third, man, if they lose their ball there and you don't blow that whistle and it's a winds up being a goal, then all of a sudden you've got a key match incident. Everyone's upset, the game starts getting away from you. So it is a thing practicing safe refereeing. I would also say, too, and I advocate for this all the time, at the beginning of the match, look for fouls. Make sure they know you will call fouls. I think that's safe refereeing. Because honestly, if you don't call fouls early, then the game escalates and you get this crescendo of energy and frustration, and the game gets out of hand, and then you know you have to try and bring it back, and it can be very difficult because everyone's nerves are frayed at that point and emotions are on edge and everyone's upset. So for me, safe refereeing, definitely being sensitive to those areas where it could be a key match incident, being proactive early in the match without a doubt. And then also just again, keeping that bar low in the games where you think the bar needs to be low, reading that, feeling that. Um, age level, experience, ability all plays into that. But it's I just I saw that phrase and I was so curious about how you would interpret it, how they're explaining it there. Can we talk a little bit about descent? Absolutely. So you, ref, and for lack of a better phrase, English Sunday League, if you will. Okay. So we're dealing with not professional men, okay. And they these guys, everyone's got jobby jobs, and they're coming to the pitch. And this is it's a cultural thing in England, what not to do. They might be a pub league type team, they're a local county team, whatever it is. And these men out there, emotions can run high really quick, and it also can run high towards the referee. And Sunday League is kind of notorious for the dissent that gets thrown towards the ref. So talk to me about how you live within that, how you deal with that, how you deal with it personally, but also how you deal with it within a match.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Gosh, it's such a kind of worms. Again, it's a difficult one because I do think that referees will have a different tolerance of what they are happy with on the pitch. And again, it does reflect on the level. So, for example, like if I'm not refereing adults and I'm refereeing kids, my tolerance for the scent is so much lower because it's like I'm trying to teach them almost how to act and you know how to what they need to learn basically when things get stressful and when they get upset, like there's a different way to deal with it. But with adults, there are a few ways to deal with it. One, depending on the players, is you could have make it into a joke and give it back to them. If they say ref, like, how have you missed that? You can say, Well, have you missed the last three passes? And they're like, Yeah, you know what, fair enough. And then that's the end of it. But I think it's about understanding whether it's actual dissent, like persistent descent, or whether it's an outburst of like shock or surprise from the player. So they get fouled, you don't give the foul, and they're like, Rev, ref, that's a foul. To me, that's not dissent. But two minutes after it's happened, they're coming over to you and they keep going on about it. Then that to me is then crossing the line into dissent. It's but mate, the moment's gone. Now you're just protesting the decision. Like you need to stop, otherwise, they're gonna have to send you off for 10 minutes. And I think in England is we have the Simbin. If somebody commits an act of dissent and the referee shows a yellow card, they go off the pitch for 10 minutes in adult football. So it's almost like a temporary dismissal, they call it in laws of the game. That to me is a big enough deterrent sometimes in actually showing the car because who wants to put their team down to 10 men? And I even made a post about it that teams actually because I use REST six like you do, um, and I looked at my stats, and teams concede 25% more goals when they're down to 10 men than when they've got 11 at my level. So I made a post about it and I had managers come like, is that really true? I'm like, yeah, when you go down to 10 men, you can cede 25% more goals than you do when it's 11v11. So it has a real impact. What I will say though is descent from players again is completely different from descent from the sideline. You can talk to players and you can manage players, but if I have to walk all the way over to the bench because you're causing a problem, then um it will for me it'll just get dealt with. I'm I'm not really in the I'm not really in the business of walking across to the benches to have a chat. It's like a long way away. If I can hear you persistently, it's too much. But again, each ref will have their own style, but yeah, descent is a difficult one to deal with. And it often gets confused with fan abusive language. A lot of the time you'll give a yellow for descent and they'll be like, ref, he didn't swear at you. It's a good job he didn't, because it's a good job he didn't, because if he'd have sworn at me, then it could have it could have been different. Um, and so it's important not to get those two confused. Founded language descent are not the same thing. It's really not the same thing, but yeah, it's one of those where temperature of the game, the type of players you're playing, refereeing, it all has an effect on how you deal with it. There are lots of different tools you can use. How do you deal with it? You must come across it a lot in if you referee a lot of youth, there's a lot of feelings that get coming around. So how do you deal with it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, again, I even in my pre-match, I try and set expectations. I tell people, hey, I communicate a lot as a referee. You'll hear me if I feel like I need to explain what I saw, I'll say it out loud. If you've got a question in a calm voice at the next stop at your play, ask me and I'll tell you what I saw. But you may not like what I say, but you need to respect the decision and play to the whistle. So I start even pre-match in my pre-match check-in speech, and I try and tell people that. And then if I get someone who in the match, maybe they're not even being like really over the top, but they just they're questioning decisions, then it's a time for a conversation. And my favorite phrase is don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm being please, if you have a question, okay, but now it's happening multiple times, you're entering dissent. I won't use that many words, I'll be a lot quicker. Yeah. Um, but that's my phrase, and I'll try and say it nice and calm. But certainly, if I've got someone who is going to raise their voice and come at me with a very vocal dissent, like at me, maybe early in the match I might be able to talk through it. But no, I'm perfectly fine. I'll even have a conversation and be like, hey, what you said is unacceptable. It's dissent. So I'm going to show you a card right now. I'm going to ask you, you know, to please mind your tone, stay focused on the match as opposed to my decisions respect the call. And then I'll show them a card. Again, there's all sorts of different ways to do it, but I'm trying to model the behavior. I do love what you do, and I've seen it in your videos a number of times where you take a walk with the player and move them away from everyone else. Yeah. Right. Because sometimes it's performance art. Like they're performing, they're trying to show that they're angry in their dissent, but they want everyone to see that they're upset. And I love it. You take them to the side and you're having a calm chat between two human beings, right? Yeah. You're trying to get their blood pressure down, you're trying to get their breathing back to a normal rate. You're trying to get them to have a conversation as opposed to an argument. I'm a big believer that if you add fuel to the fire, it's going to grow. I try and take that energy and that anger out and get them out of that moment. And I have a lot more success. Yeah. And same thing with coaches as well, man. There, there's a time like that I could give a warning and hey, it's like, hey, coaches, I'm hearing call persistence ascent. Every call, I'm hearing something, cut it out. That's your official warning. And then next time I'm going over there, hey, you've engaged in persistent descent, that's it. And if they try this is not about my calls, okay? This is about your behavior. It needs to stop now. And that's it. So yeah, again, I'm fortunate that I've had a lot of experience, like in a corporate setting, dealing with conflict. And as a leader and as a manager, I've I was a sales trainer, so I dealt with conflict resolution and negotiating tactics and dealing with difficult people. But again, I think this is one of these things that is so powerful. And I honestly, I would love to see you add audio to your stage. To your video, man. I'm telling you, I'm actually I'm very close to it. I'm very close to it. I'm getting a set of microphones this Sunday, a six-person com system. And I'm gonna find a way to connect those comms to my camera so I can start capturing that. Because I think that interpersonal communication between the referee and the players is so valuable to pass on and pay forward to other referees who are trying to learn because it's just that's gold, man. That game management right there, it is gold.
SPEAKER_01:It is because any anytime you talk to a top-level official, it's 90% of what they talk to you about. That's what I've found anyway. Any top-level official I've had the pleasure of speaking with, they're always talking about the interactions they have on pitch. It's not about the decision, like it's about the position first, because if you're in the right position, that helps you make a good decision. Everyone knows everyone can see a foul for the most part. It's just that you're in the right place. But then almost all the time, it's how did you deal with that situation? Yes. Um, it's uh it's golden. And that's the beauty of what you've got in the US is in England, we're not allowed to use communication systems until you get to a certain level. So until you're refereeing a professional game, you can't wear communication. So it's absolutely not possible for us to record audio because obviously wearing a mic would be the laws of the game. Yeah, I think that'd be absolutely brilliant because it's just so valuable because you don't it's mystical. Like you have no idea what's saying to play, no one has any clue.
SPEAKER_00:It'd be so cool to see that. Yeah, so in the United States, a little different. So it is uh it is banned. US US soccer has put out a band specifically for US youth soccer. So anything that is under USSF is the acronym here. So a youth game, I can't use communication systems, but we can use it in like Sunday League men's games, no problem. You could use it at the college game, high school, you can use communication systems. So that is one benefit. And I'm actively trying to get them to allow it for the youth game here in the U.S. In the youth in the US, every single referee has to be a regional referee. Mind you, we have 140,000 certified referees in the United States, and only 990 of them are regional. So to have three regionals on a match, you're talking about like 0.0000001% of games. Yeah. So it's it's impossible to get a game like that to have comp. But so yeah, no, there is so for some leagues, we can have it. It is out. I don't know if you have the experience, but it is so valuable when you're working with a crew to be all connected and be talking. It is just, oh my gosh, I can't even describe it. It is so helpful to be able to do that. Really, I think it's just a fantastic thing. Yeah, so I just I do have quite a couple questions for you. Just one thing that's unique about Sunday League, and I think it's this so such a fascinating thing that I want to hear you talk about, is the club linesmen. Okay. So for those who don't know, man, so when you're doing these Sunday League games, okay, it's not like you got a three-person crew where you've got two qualified, proper assistant referees out there helping you manage offside, helping you manage the sidelines, helping you manage goal line decisions. It is you and two random dudes who have been appointed by their club. Could be a player, it could be some other random person who just hangs out at the club that that runs the line for them. Can you talk about club linesmen for us? Your experiences with that, the good and the bad. Oh man, I love them and I hate them all at the same time.
SPEAKER_01:It's like it's such a love-hate relationship. Like a good club official can honestly completely transform a game for you. Um, and a bad one can make it almost impossible to manage. Yeah, in England we have a history of using club assistance, but not in every county. This is again where it's interesting. So from I'll just refer to it as like a state, so state to state, county to county, we do things differently. So in my county, we absolutely use club assistants in every league up until you get three officials. In other parts of the country and other counties, the referee will do everything by themselves, offside everything. Which I cannot imagine calling offside by yourself. Like you have to adopt such a different position. But anyway, in my county we use club assistants. So naturally, when it's close, the flag just goes up, right? Because if it's even remotely close, the flag just gonna go up for the most part. There are club assistants that treat it like they are an actual referee, and it is brilliant. Like they are so helpful equally because if they give a decision against their own team, uh the team sorry, so if a club assistant gives a decision against their own team, that team cannot argue with you whatsoever. Because well, your own assistant who's inclined to cheat to help you is giving it against you. So it's just a no-brainer, right? But the problem is when the a decision doesn't go that team's way, it's like they're a cheat. They're a cheat. And it's like, no, making a mistake doesn't make you a cheat automatically. So it's so difficult to manage. Uh and also you uh that club assistant can change during the game. So if it's a substitute, you may do your best by giving pre-match instructions to the substitute that's doing it. But if his teammate gets injured ten minutes into the game and he goes onto the pitch and someone else goes to do it, basically you're gonna stop the game every time to go explain to that new club assistant uh everything they need to do when it could change five, six times. It's really complicated. Some clubs have a dedicated club assistant every week, and so that's a lot better. But when it's just a substitute or a someone's dad or whatever, it can be pretty chaotic. Yeah, it can be pretty chaotic to please everybody.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh. I honestly I feel so I feel I have so much empathy, and I feel so bad for you. Because again, if you have someone you can't trust on the line for you, it is brutal as a referee. It's brutal. If their mechanics aren't right, you're not sure what they're calling, they're completely out of position. You got a goal line decision and you look over and they're 20 yards up the line. Same thing for offside. Again, you got an offside decision and they're completely out of alignment with the second to last opponent. Man, it just it hurt again. We talked, we were talking about game management and match credibility and dissent. It's gosh, I don't know. And then you could have someone who does make an unscrupulous decision to help their team. Yeah, it happens. And it's like, what do you do? That's and you're the ultimately the responsible referee, and they're looking to you, and I'm like, I can't tell.
SPEAKER_01:Are you kidding me? And it puts you in a really horrible spot because it's almost like simulation, you know. If you think someone is simulated, you're basically stopping the game, giving the card and saying, You've just tried to cheat. Like it's a it's such a bold decision to give because you're calling out their actions and in some way their character in a way. And so it's the same thing when a club assistant does something and you completely overrule them, which I've done a couple of times when it's really glaringly obvious to me. But it puts you in such a difficult spot, right? Because you're either saying, I think you've got it wrong, and I just see it differently, but if it's really glaring, they know that you just think that they're being honest, which is you know, sometimes true. But for the most of the part, no, most of the time people are great, but you'd be naive to think that people don't see things in a certain light because it's their own team, even whether they know it or not. Yeah, they're human. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And then whenever they might be a teammate, they might be exactly, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:It's like you see what you want to see sometimes.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, brother. My gosh. This is a powerful question for you. Uh looking for your feedback, and you're a very transparent dude, but you've been reffing now for two years. Have you ever left the game thinking, why do I do this? And what keeps you coming back week to week? A few times.
SPEAKER_01:And not as often as people would think. I would say I felt like that three or four times. In a couple of hundred games that I've really thought I just was not enjoyable in the slightest, not worth it. I didn't enjoy it. The first time it ever happened is I had a guy threaten to assault me and then did not any like serious assault, but he put his head against mine and it ended up getting what's the word? Not getting charged. Like you got charged, but it didn't get proven. So at that point, I was really early on in my career. I think it was maybe like my fourth or fifth video on the channel when it happened. And I thought, man, if this is what it's like, then I'm not doing it. But you chat to people and people like, you can't control the outcome. All you can do is put the report in and whatever happens with witnesses and whatever, it is what it is. And the second time I was referring, this was this season, and I gave a red card to a player who won the ball with their tackle, but then in my opinion, they lifted their leg with studs deliberately and made contact like just below the knee. So for me, it was serious foul play. So I gave them a red card, and then that team complained to the national FA, complained to the county FA, refused to have me referee their games anymore, reported me for filming without permission, even though that wasn't the case, made fake emails to comment on my videos, like all sorts. It was crazy. But I just again I always think, man, if that's how people act when they know they're being filmed. Imagine what it's like for the referees that don't have that level of accountability, you know, and they are genuinely out there by themselves. Um but to me I find it easier because honestly, it sounds cliche or soppy, but when I'm out there and I know the game's being filmed, I don't actually feel like I'm refereeing by myself because I know that next weekend all of my like members, all of my subscribers are gonna watch what's happened and then we're all gonna talk about it. So although I am out there by myself, like there are thousands of people watching that are all gonna see what's happening for good or for bad. Um so I don't particularly feel alone. But yeah, I would there have been three, three or four times where I've thought, no, this is really not for me. But then I think I personally wouldn't I wouldn't be happy with myself in the future if I just gave up because it got difficult, which is not how I'm not how I'm wired. Now for some people they have an experience that they absolutely feel like cannot come back from, and I can totally understand that. Um these situations were just difficult, not unbearable for me. So yeah, Quentin's not really in my remit at the best.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I'm yeah, really impressed with you. I I just want to say for anyone listening to this, if someone touches you, tries to put their head against yours to try and intimidate something like you, even just what we call unwanted touching in the United States in amateur soccer, match youth or adult, it is a minimum six-game suspension. Minimum. If they touch you in a way that's like threatening or trying to intimidate you, it's a six-month suspension. And that's part of the new referee abuse policy that we implemented in the United States last year. I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm so sorry that your local football association didn't back you up on that one because it's not okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's one of those, like the so how it works in England is the local FA put a charge against that person, so they do, but then what it happens is it goes to a national board where three members of a panel, they might be secretaries at clubs, they might be ex-referees, they might just be coaches in other teams in other areas of the country, and then they have a vote on it. So, like my local FA put the charge, they completely supported it, but unfortunately, they voted that it was in England. You don't have to be proving guilty because obviously there's almost never cameras. It's just was it more likely than not likely? And they deemed it to be not likely that it actually happened, which is up to them.
SPEAKER_00:There's not much you can do. Yeah, just a bit knowing that referees are there by themselves. Come on. Yes, dude. Support them. I tell you that it's why I'm a big supporter also of body cams and a big supporter of videoing games. I think this is important. I do think it gives us another level of accountability for us and for the players. And I think it's a safety thing. Again, we we it there is something about having this video here where people do think twice about how they act if they know it's being caught on video, and we need that support and protection out there so that we can do our jobs, so that we can feel safe out there.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there's a lot of times where I've got a friend who had his he had his leg broken in three places from a tackle just a few months back, and all you've got is just misses, really. You don't have anything to go off. And I think, well, if that was there, then you'd probably got a bit more support because you could see what actually happened. Um it's not just referees, it's for everybody who plays and is involved in the game.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, especially with technology today, it's like there's it's a no-brainer. So I want to just as we come towards a close here, talk to me about refereeing in England right now. Where is it on a trajectory or the pendulum? Is it getting better right now? Creator like you doing what you're doing, and there seems to be more and more videos coming out from PGMOL and a little bit more transparency, a little bit, not a ton, but a little bit more. Is it getting better or worse at the grassroots level for referees?
SPEAKER_01:I'm not sure, to be honest. I because I can only really speak from my own experience and people that I speak to. For the most part, people are not having major problems every weekend. I think it's a misconception that people have about refereeing. If 50 refs and you ask them how their weekend is, maybe one of them had a really crap game. It's not that probably too common than it should be, but it's not ultra common. The good thing about referee England is it's growing and we're getting more and more people into refereeing, which is great. And it's starting to represent the communities more and more as well. So uh they don't all look the same, they're not all the same. There's a lot more female referees, a lot more referees from ethnic minorities. It's like a better representation of what our culture is actually, which I think is only good for the game. But there's a lot more referees coming in, there's a lot more actives for younger referees to get into the game. You can progress quicker than you've been able to progress before. Uh and hopefully, uh as a natural uh, I guess, consequence of that is the level of refereeing, which I think relates to the enjoyment level of enjoyment, should improve. If there are more referees, you'll have more better referees, and uh better referees I think help facilitate a more enjoyable game for people. So I think it's yeah, I think it's good. Ultimately, there's still a lot of work to be done. I think we have 36,000 refs or something like that, which is drop in the ocean compared to somewhere like the US, even though it's a much bigger country, we're probably not far away on the amount of people that play football in both countries.
SPEAKER_00:Oh uh, no, and we're actually very we're very close. I think it's on the regular, I think it's 20 million people in England, in the United States. It's again, trust this number or not, it's like 26 million people, but but the majority of those people who are playing are kids, and we're talking about you know, you you six, you seven, you eight. I think there's a far larger percentage of people in England who are adults playing every single weekend than there are here in the U.S. It's not so much in our culture historically as it is in England. In uh in some cultures here in the United States, whether you're Mexican or you're from Central America or South America or some European countries, whatnot, they have a culture of playing throughout their life. And therefore, we're we see those leagues in different parts of our country here, and it's growing. It's growing. There's more and more people who are playing football as a lifelong sport as opposed to something they just do as a kid or a teenager. But it's good to hear the numbers are growing. Again, the big number for me is retention, yeah. Is how many people are dropping out every single year. And right now, we're losing between 60 to 80 percent of our referees every single year. And so we can't you can't have that extremely high, um, extremely low retention rate, if you will, if you want to develop great referees and have a great game. Because yeah, good referee, you're gonna have a great game for the most part. If you got a really poor, untrained referee who can't keep that match control and doesn't have that foul recognition and practice safe refereeing, it's gonna be a pretty ugly affair and no one's gonna enjoy that. Last question before we get into the bonus round. So if there was a player, okay, because you were just a player, but if there was a player who was on the fence about becoming a referee, what would you tell them? Oh, I would say do it.
SPEAKER_01:And then if you've got to do it, and if they asked me why, I'd say because you would enjoy it way more than you think you would enjoy it. What are you gonna do if you don't referee? If you're gonna stop playing, what are you gonna do? Sit at home and watch football on a Saturday or whatever, or take up golf or something which no one truly enjoys. It's too difficult. Man, get back out there. Like you still have that feeling of being out with the guys. When you have a good game, you're having a laugh with them, you're in the bar after, having a drink and some food. When you're out in a team of three, you get that camaraderie of being in the changing rooms again, and you get to feel the buzz and the speed and the pressure of the game again. I just for me it's an absolute no-brainer. And I can not to say the people that have never played don't make good referees, but if you've played, there's certain certain skills and things in the game that you will pick up really quickly that other people don't have the context of, like foul recognition, like you've felt it a hundred times, what it's like to be pushed in the back or whatever it may be. Like you you uh inherently there's something in you that knows the difference, and so yeah, you can utilize that, you've got a great opportunity to progress. But 100% get into it. And if you don't like it, you can stop. But if you don't try, then you'll have no idea, will you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I will say the big thing that I'm starting to recognize more and more is the feeling of community and being a part of something. And there's so much data and information out right now that as a society, people are feeling more alone than ever. As connected as quote unquote connected with these devices that we have, we're missing human-to-human connection and we're missing being a part of the community. I was walking around in California this past weekend at the State Cup, and you just see all these families with all the food together on their tables, and the little kids are running around, like the siblings are there, and the friendships are being made between all of these adults. Okay, their kid, their 12-year-old kid or 13, whatever kid is playing a soccer game, but there's all these other people that are part of this community. And then that kid is also part of a team and part of that community as well. And you, as the referee, can be a part of that. Like you feel it, you're around it, you see that camaraderie, and you are a part of the game. You're not some separate, like mechanical robot. Like you're actually part of that game, you're part of that experience, and it feels freaking wonderful. Even when you have a tough match, you know, it feels wonderful to be a part of that community. Honestly, I can't imagine it not being a part of my life. I loved it so much when my kids were playing, it would break my heart to be disconnected from it. It really would.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I honestly, yeah, it's been such a major part of my life. For as long as I can remember, I've loved football. And yeah, I can't imagine not being involved in it in some way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I love it, man. Hey, all right, let's we're gonna go through the bonus round. We're gonna wrap this up now. All right, ready? All right, this is a big one, Eric. All right, quickfire. If you could change one law of the game tomorrow, what would it be and why?
SPEAKER_01:I'd make the eight-second rule the 12 or 15-second rule. And when it came out, it's a little bit too quick. And it's too quick for referees and it's too quick for players, in my opinion. I think make seconds like 12 seconds and it would be perfect.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lot of counting. You gotta count how, you gotta be able to count the 12. That's for sure. I I would my only caveat, and I I actually that it sped up the game, and I hate always it's funny, I'm a goalkeeper, but I hate when other teams waste time. I like it when I do it. I hate it when other people do it. I would just say I want that for all restarts. I want it for just all. I want it for corner kicks, I want it for goal kicks, I want it for throw ins.
SPEAKER_01:You've got that amount of time. Yeah, I could get on board with that.
SPEAKER_00:I'm I totally. And the amount of time gets wasted on a goal kick or just throw-ins at the end of the game, yeah, is so frustrating. I'd love it for that that to go as well, and just possession goes the other way. All right, next thing. What is one thing in your referee bag that might surprise people that you carry? What's one thing you got in there that maybe most people don't?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I quite I travel light. Um good.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, wow. I travel outrageously heavy.
SPEAKER_01:I travel so light. I'm trying to think what's in there. Probably the cash I got from last week's game. I always forget, I always forget to take that out. So if you ever see my bag lying around, there's probably some notes in there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, that is so funny. I literally just thought to myself, I probably didn't take out my cash from this week because it was a cash at feel thing. I swear it is still in my ref bag right now. And that's so funny you say that. I never remember that either. It's so funny. That's great. I love it. All right. All right. What is the most bizarre or memorable thing you've heard someone yell at you from the sidelines?
SPEAKER_01:That's lucky to be a yellow ref. It was reckless. Tickled me. That that really that really tickled me. The fact that he literally used the definition of a yellow card and said it was it's lucky not to be red.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and then this is not very- Actually, someone quoting the laws of the game to you is definitely I would have a double take. I'd be like, What? You're talking considerations here? Come on, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_01:Not from the sideline, but the first match I ever refereed, a gentleman walked onto the pitch during the match, and he was a member of the local council, and he had basically stopped the game because the home team hadn't paid their rent for the pitch, and so he asked me to stop the game because they hadn't paid their rent, and I was based on me, I'm not a debt collector, like you'll have to sort this out after the game. I have no authority for this. So that was really bizarre. So they did not teach me this on the course last week. I had no idea what to do.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, that's hilarious. That is whole I love that. I'm not a debt collector. It's great. All right. Last week we're gonna finish on a positive note. What is the best compliment you've received as a referee? What's the best thing someone has said to you thus far? I love that you can remember the negative stuff, but as a referee, it's so hard to remember positive. But I'm gonna make I'm gonna force you here some positive things.
SPEAKER_01:It's not as difficult. I'm just I'm thinking of the line to go down. I love it when players come up and you get 22 handshakes and they're like, you know what, thank you, ref. Like, did well today. That's always nice. But I remember getting one message from a player that plays at a higher level than I referee at, and he said, Hey Eric, been watching the videos, just wanted to say, thank you for making them. It's actually opened my eyes to how I treat referees. And in my last game, I made a real effort to be approachable and talk to the referee. And then he sent me a screenshot of an email the referee had sent to the league. Basically, I'm not sure the right word, basically lifting up the captain to say how enjoyable the game was with him being with him cooperating and making the game enjoyable. And he was like, I actually enjoyed the game a lot more, and I just my relationship with referees has got better. And I was at that point, I was probably I was only about six to eight weeks into the channel, and I was like, now this is what it's all about, because that's made an impact further than just my games. That's gone to a player who's then treated another referee differently. That referee's then fed back that positive things, and so that's naturally just gonna have a snowball effect, right? He's gonna do that every week, if he if he remembers. That was probably the biggest compliment for the videos.
SPEAKER_00:I was like, that's really worth going. Man, you're bringing tears to my eyes. I love the saying a pebble dropped in the ocean creates a wave that will land on a distant shore. And and that's what you're doing through your videos. You're and by the way, your videos are getting millions upon millions of views on these different platforms. And by doing what you're doing, you're changing hearts and minds, and it is going to have a positive impact on the game. And that's just one small example. I bet it's happened thousands of times now that you just heard about that one. But yeah, no, you have an immense impact. And Erica, I just want to say thank you so much for making the time to come onto our podcast. Can you tell everyone who's listening or watching, if they're watching, couldn't watch this on YouTube, where they can find you? What's your handle? Where they can find you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so you find me on all social platforms: YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, threads, even threads. I'm not on X, that's the only one I'm not on. And it's very simple, it's just at behind the whistle. Yeah, and you can find it all there. On YouTube, I break down the games in longer form and on the shorter form platforms, they're more like snippets, nuggets of things. But yeah, it's yeah, it's been going well. So if anyone wants to go and watch, they they can find me there. And I look forward to seeing tell me that David sent you, and then I'll know where you've come from.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, that's awesome, man. Uh Eric Edge, right? It's a wonderful last name, by the way. I love to be sure. Eric Edge. It's like a DJ, it's like a radio host or something like that. Eric Edge on the mic. Man, dude, I loved this conversation. Honestly, I feel like we could talk for hours. We may have to have a round two and have you back another time, especially as we get close to World Cup as well. It's just you're doing amazing work, man. Don't stop on the pitch. Don't stop with the videos that you're putting out. I love your approach. I encourage everyone out there, subscribe to his channels. You will not be disappointed. Trust me, he's fantastic. Again, everyone out there, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Just as a reminder, please support the wrestling love to store online. Everything gets bored back into making this channel possible. And as always, I hope your next match is red card break.