#029: Nervous System Healing & Global Awakening with Maurice Harvey-Hall

Maurice shares how his path through Taoism, Buddhist psychology, CBT, Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) & IFS has shaped how he understands the “poly-mind” (many parts), the nervous system & what people are calling a global awakening.

If you are trying to make sense of your own inner world, this conversation gives a grounded, practical way to relate to thoughts, emotions and triggers without shame.

• Maurice’s journey from Buddhist practice and CBT into ACT, polyvagal theory and Internal Family Systems—how East and West describe the same inner processes in different languages.
•  The idea of the poly-mind: why we say “a part of me wants X, another part of me wants Y” and how IFS sees these as real, distinct inner parts with their own stories, beliefs & body sensations.
•  No bad parts: how protective parts like anger, anxiety, perfectionism, people-pleasing, jealousy or overwhelm are safety mechanisms trying to keep us from emotional pain, not character defects.
•  The difference between parts energy vs Self energy & the 8 C’s of Self (calm, curiosity, compassion, courage, clarity, confidence, creativity, connection) to notice when you’re regulated and present in practice.
•  How polyvagal theory helps us track when we’re in fight, flight or dorsal shutdown & why “I’m overwhelmed” is often the nervous system going outside its window of tolerance, not a moral failing.
•  A simple starting point if you’re in overwhelm: using what you don’t want (e.g. “I don’t want to feel this anxious/jealous/angry”) as a doorway to understand what that part is afraid of and trying to protect.
•  The power of witnessing both in relationship and internally: “I see you, I hear you, and you matter” & how this alone can soften anxious, angry or avoidant parts.
•  How our inner harmonising of parts and Self mirrors what’s happening on the collective level & why Maurice feels we are in a time of “remembering” who we really are as consciousness having a human experience.
•  A reflection on manifestation, story & meaning-making: noticing how the mind creates a story about the past and future, and how freedom comes from seeing we are the ones giving events their meaning.

Key takeaways

• You don’t need to “kill your ego” — your parts formed when there wasn’t enough safety or Self energy available. They’re doing the best they can with the tools they had.
•  The work is not to get rid of parts, but to befriend and lead them from Self, with curiosity & compassion.
•  Tracking your body sensations (tight chest, solar plexus, lump in throat, shutdown, agitation) is one of the most direct ways to identify which part is up and what it’s trying to do for you.
•  Every time you co

About your host
I’m Sally-Anne Kearns, Functional Nutritional Therapy Practitioner and host of Nutrition Gateway. I help women calm anxiety, clear brain fog, and stabilise energy through simple, stackable micro-habits grounded in nutrition and lifestyle foundations.

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Transcript

Sally-Anne Kearns  0:00  
Notepaker has joined us. Oh, my gosh, you look different from the last time I saw you. You've got facial hair. We've got

Maurice  0:05  
hair and facial hair. What happened? Oh, that's fun. Yeah, yeah, lots of SAP. Lots has happened.

Sally-Anne Kearns  0:16  
So, oh yeah, yes, I can certainly tax hmm, beautiful. Any questions before I hit proper record?

Maurice  0:30  
No. So you're going to record this and then you're going to share this with with your people. Is that right?

Sally-Anne Kearns  0:36  
Yeah, so Leanne's going to share it through the Vimeo channel on the nutritional therapy Association. Oh, yeah, cool. And then I have a secondary podcast called nutrition gateway, yep. And my people are really curious about like. They're primarily women, just curious the change makers their health rebels. They're people that want to make a difference, but don't quite know how to make sense of the energetic shifts that they've felt recently. And they want to know, I guess, how they can make the biggest impact to change the future for our generational health and wealth and all the things.

Maurice  1:18  
Not a big ask at all. That's quite No, no pressure, yeah. Okay, beautiful. All right,

Sally-Anne Kearns  1:27  
so I guess from that laneway, like most of Leanne's audience, we're all health practitioners. We all thought that we were just studying nutrition, but then Leanne unpacked the truth of who we truly are, and we had to slowly integrate these concepts into our physical bodies over the time that we started with her. And I think the plan is to kind of go more deeply around what a lot of the community is feeling, which is just, how do we make sense of this? And I think Leanne was particularly interested in the internal family system, so how that kind of plays into She didn't give me a lot of info. So I'm like, Oh man, yeah, if you gave me, like, one, one prompt. And I was like, I'm going to guess the rest.

Maurice  2:23  
So, yeah, it's, it's a beautiful lens to it's a beautiful lens to conceptualize self. And then it's a lens that you can plug into the template of spirituality as well.

Sally-Anne Kearns  2:44  
Okay, well, let's, um, let's go there. And I'll just wanted to if we could put a little transcript, because then, if we have the transcript, we can play with that. So, all right, so that looks to be happening. So I'll just do, if it's all right, a little introduction on what I've kind of stalked with you. Yeah, go. We'll go from there, but we can hit pause if we need to, or whatever. We'll just, we'll just flow.

Maurice  3:15  
Yeah, let's, let's, let's, let it flow.

Sally-Anne Kearns  3:18  
Awesome. So today, I am joined by Maurice Harvey Hall, a mindset architect, meditation teacher and spiritual mentor whose vision is to impact a billion lives in his lifetime. Maurice is a registered mental health nurse who's trained in mindfulness based therapies like Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and draws deeply from the towers philosophy, Buddhist psychology and neuroscience. With over 25 years experience and practice and meditation, has lived his own experience and has broken free of a 15 year cannabis addiction by grounded, embodied understanding of the inner and outer worlds that we'll be exploring today.

Maurice  4:00  
Welcome. Hey there. Thanks for the return invite.

Sally-Anne Kearns  4:05  
You're so welcome. I loved our last chat. I really felt as though something shifted in me, and I think you know by osmosis when you can feel and hear someone's story and where they've come and the triumphs and the victories that they've achieved kind of rubs off a little bit. So I'm very grateful, and I'm very blessed to be in in this conversation again. So thank you.

Maurice  4:33  
Excited, curious, and, yeah, curiosity seems to be the thing that's most present with me today of where we're going to go and how it will be expressed. I guess, yeah, yeah, beautiful.

Sally-Anne Kearns  4:48  
So I guess on your background, which is this extensive kind of spirituality piece, this integration, I guess, for those of you that don't know yet, can you share, I guess the key moments in your journey that led you from, I guess that conventional psychology into internal family systems and this global awakening piece,

Maurice  5:11  
yeah, okay, I guess Initially, my journey into, you know, seeking the an understanding of the fabric and nature of reality. Basically, it was introduced to me through Taoism and Buddhism. And I found that through Buddhism, the way that they looked at the mind and the, I guess, the techniques that they had within meeting the mind I found in Western psychology is cognitive behavioral therapy. I went, Oh, I've already been doing this stuff. And now in the West, they've got a name for it, and there's a whole theory about it. So okay, this is interesting, that the Eastern guys are talking about something one way, and then the Western guys are talking about it in another way. So it was lovely to see the marriage of the two. So Taoism was introduced to me early, and then I followed through with the Buddhist path in their teachings. Then from there, when I was going to uni, and I just finished uni with the nursing degree, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy was just starting to come to the forefront as something else other than cognitive behavioral therapy, and as an adjunct to all of those things too. And so then I saw that act was very much a mindful based therapy that focused more on the acceptance of your thoughts, rather than labeling thoughts as helpful and unhelpful, which I find is interesting, because that creates potentially even further judgment and further shame that I continue to have all of these unhelpful thoughts. I need to get rid of them. So that's where CBT, the traditional model, in a sense, was suggesting, whereas actors go, hey, whatever these thoughts are, just notice them. And notice if you're fusing to them, and you are the thoughts. And notice if you are fused and noticing and and you are them. Can you create space and just notice that there's a thought there?

Sally-Anne Kearns  7:18  
Yeah, so being a little bit subjective to the emotional, yeah, feeling of it, yeah.

Maurice  7:23  
And this, this noticing, in this, in a sense, this awareness process that was being, I guess, in sense, fostered and built and as the foundations of it. So you could notice thoughts, you could acknowledge them without judgment, and just allow them to be there, and they would have context. So having context would suggest they actually have a purpose. There's a reason why they're there, rather than we need to get rid of this because it's got no value. So that was lovely. And I thought, oh, yeah, I've found the, you know, the jewel, you know, in the lotus. That's acceptance, Commitment Therapy. And I was very much moving with that. And I'd noticed a lot of other Buddhist philosophies and psychologies moving into my awareness and mainframe of how I viewed the world, and I noticed that I had quite a good balance of inner harmony. Even though I had dilemmas and conflicts, there was still a pretty good balance of inner harmony, which I then started to know is would reflect into my outer experience. So here's the, you know, some of the hermetic principles as above, so below, so within, so without, cause and effect. Relational, yeah. So it was okay. It fits into these particular views, yeah. And then I found internal family systems. Well, actually, I didn't find it my partner, my beautiful partner, initially introduced me to polyvagal theory. Yes, right, which I rejected. Initially, I went, now, what do you mean? Because, because I'm used to this top down approach, you know, everything can be fixed via the mind. Or if we're having an experience, it's because of the mind. So if that's the cause, and if we place attention on the mind, then it'll fix this when, in actual fact, no, hang on. It's a it's a bottom up approach. And it was also de shaming in a sense as well, recognizing that, you know, when you do go into overwhelm, it's not because you can't handle things, it's because it's actually out of your window of tolerance, and this is a safety mechanism.

Sally-Anne Kearns  9:24  
Yeah, we're seeing a lot of it now.

Maurice  9:28  
I'm in dorsal, so, of course, I'm in dorsal, so I don't want to move. You know, how do I get up to ventral if I'm in dorsal? Well, if I just start to move, then that might shift my my state, if I then get angry, if anger appears, oh, there's movement. You know, how I shift up there? So polyvag was really interesting to me. It was, here's some more teachings, you know, for foundational stuff. And then I've then, you know, Ali brought to me internal family systems. And when I found that, I went, hang on, this makes sense. So I then I felt comfortable with the model, and I then started to practice it on me, beautiful, yeah. And then I started to notice particular things, and because of the awareness that I have, I was really inquiring into it, and then going deeper into the IFS model and learning that way. And then Ali's also a therapist, ifs therapist, so we're able to bounce off each other and speak to each other and through a parts lens, which I find really significant in couples and couples therapy or intimate relationships, when you can speak from a parts lens. And then even there, overlaying non violent communication. By Marsha Rosenberg,

Sally-Anne Kearns  10:45  
yes, okay,

Maurice  10:47  
you know, we've got a nice suite of philosophical templates and conceptual models of the mind so we can relate to ourselves and our outer world. Yeah.

Sally-Anne Kearns  11:05  
Give me a second. So I guess that that's that's like, you know, you've literally just built brick upon brick, integrated that in your own own world, and gone, okay, yes, that's taken, you know, that makes sense to this point, until there's another sort of layer that's opened up, and you're like, Okay, so this is expanding on it even further, particularly taking into that kind of lizard brain, if you like, you know, where we're all in. I think a lot of us are in this fight or flight space, post what the last five years have created and how we've responded to our environment. Was there a particular moment where you like in this journey that you've kind of embodied? Was there a particular moment where you sat down and you said, I just can't treat the mind in isolation from the body, and this the bigger picture of spiritual element? Yeah.

Maurice  12:00  
Okay, right. So always been spiritually LED. We can use those words. I guess there's been a drive which I find interesting for not, not everyone has that drive initially, find it later, or some people just don't have it. So I always question that one there. So love the top down approach. Love the Buddhist philosophy, cognitive behavior therapy, acceptance, Commitment Therapy, mindfulness based, all that sort of stuff. Now, when we started to get into mindfulness space, we then started to move into the body, because there was a recognition that there's something in mind and there's something potentially in the body as well. Yep. So then there was a bit of a joining of the two there. So okay, mindfulness practice, this is interesting. Then we had internal family or we had polyvagal. So now it was really showing these different states and where you could feel them in the body, the internal family systems. When we look at it from a parts perspective, that the parts are actually like part of the meditation, where we say, meet your parts. We're actually feeling into the body. So we're in the body, around the body, or outside of the body is this part located? So now we're starting to see, oh, I've got the shoulder pain. And like, for me, like, it's interesting that the way that, if I put a side profile, my my neck sits forward, it's like, it's like, the turtleneck and, and, and I've been working on it, wanting to bring it back, bring it back and, and it's interesting because it represents a part for me, and that part is the one that's looking, it's seeking.

Sally-Anne Kearns  13:38  
Wow, interesting. Me too. I do that too, yeah.

Maurice  13:41  
And I had negative association to it, because it's like a hunchback, you know, it doesn't look good if you you know, people say hey, you know, stop slouching. Or my mother used to say that to me. So, so there's a part that judges this part of me, yeah. And so then there's the part itself that just seems to be with this forward neck type thing. So lately, I've been noticing other people with forward necks, and noticing how I'll have a judging part, but then also noticing how there's a greater compassionate part to going, Hey, this is the way that this person is. This is the way that this is, Can I Can we be okay with that? Yeah, having to change it. So where I'm going with that is that there seems to be from a spiritual lens, there seems to be a Maurice that is having a life that has a story attached to his life. Yeah, and, and from a spiritual lens, there's this perspective of unconsciousness having a human experience. The human experience is Maurice,

Sally-Anne Kearns  14:51  
yes, and

Maurice  14:53  
he's got a mind, and he's got a genetic code which expresses itself through this body, yeah, and he's in this world where there's an environment, he has a series of experiences. And Maurice, he identifies himself with the story he tells himself about his history. Yeah, yeah. And so I think, Okay, this seems to be for everybody. Then, yeah. And spirit, you know, consciousness, having a human experience. Well, I'm not the mind, I'm not the body, I'm not actually Maurice, but I am the awareness that's watching Maurice's experience unfold. Yeah?

Sally-Anne Kearns  15:34  
So now it's kind of going into almost like the observer, yeah?

Maurice  15:40  
And which is a classic mindfulness skills, and if we just tap into mindfulness, this observation, it's a non judgmental observation of the present moment, which continues to unfold, unfold, unfold. Yeah. And I was just listening to Alan Watts, and one of the things he was saying is that you know, when you come and sit down, if you believe that you're the person that walked through the door then, then you're stuck in believing that this is you, because the past is a series of events that are linked together to then create a history. So that's what the mind does.

Sally-Anne Kearns  16:15  
Yes, definitely. And the stories that we tell ourselves on this, on that

Maurice  16:21  
I want to be this. When I'm this, I'll be this.

Sally-Anne Kearns  16:24  
Yes, yeah, the thing, this thing needs to happen in order for me to feel satisfied, content and or happy, or healthy, or whatever. You know, that's right.

Maurice  16:31  
Even the art of manifesting the law of attraction, I'm attracting this into my current house. What I started to realize is that, okay, from a spiritual lens, from a consciousness lens. I'm not any of this, but I'm the observer of it. So I get this real, beautiful honor to be the observer of Maurice living his life. Yeah, and as consciousness, I might even be able to through, I guess, quantum physics observer effect that if, if I'm consciousness, the observer, if I'm observing Maurice, then Maurice, Maurice's experience is influenced by the mere observation of it.

Sally-Anne Kearns  17:07  
Absolutely, yeah,

Maurice  17:09  
and it's how I'm observing. So if I'm consciousness, which is love, and I'm observing Maurice with love, I'm influencing Maurice with love.

Sally-Anne Kearns  17:19  
Yeah, that's beautiful. I took my lunch outside yesterday, and you know, as you described, that I had a picture because I was, I was sitting on this tree, stop, and down on the ground, there's all these black ants. And I said, Look, guys, we, you know, I'm having a conversation with them, I'm going look, there's plenty of food for you, but just don't bite me. So, you know, just setting the boundary, don't bite me. And I'm looking down, and I'm sort of sprinkling some of my lunch down in small pieces. So, you know, they don't have to work too hard to take it away. But, and I thought, God, this is how God must feel, right? You know, or consciousness must feel. Like looking down at these Anne's just in busyness, like they're all kind of just doing their thing. But I just sat there for about 20 minutes and just literally thought, wow, this is what is happening right now, and I'm kind of watching that. That must be how I must feel for the creation and to watch us. But what you've just said is you've actually flipped it to be yourself, watching yourself or observing yourself,

Maurice  18:30  
yeah, yeah. And what I've noticed is this life is relational. So we're in a world of duality, and where there's duality, there's, you know, once we even have the concept of i that means that there is an other, yes, to say there's an eye. So it's beautiful that duality and is relativity and it's relational. So what, what I'm noticing within the internal Family Systems Approach is the parts relating to other parts.

Sally-Anne Kearns  19:00  
It's, can we go there? So we ifs so internal family systems, we've kind of spoken a little bit about it. But if, ifs is a map, or was a map of the split mind? How would you explain ifs in simple terms?

Maurice  19:19  
So when we talk about split mind. I'm not too sure what your point of reference is. There from an ifs lens. It'll be called a poly mind,

Sally-Anne Kearns  19:27  
right? Got it? Okay,

Maurice  19:30  
yep. So there's many parts to it, poly, yeah, versus mono, which is just one big mind. Sometimes we call it the ego, that sort of thing. This ifs model would also be similar, somewhat similar to schema focus therapies. So you have different schemas, which would be different ego states. So there's ego states or parts. So we have poly mind, and within that poly mind, it's a series of parts and a, let's call it another part called self, right? So there's self, and then there's parts we actually use the language. You know, part of me didn't want to come today. A part of me want to stay in bed. Part of me is really anxious about that talk that I'm going to give, but the other part of me says, this is really important, and we should do this, yeah. So we naturally segment ourselves so we can describe our experience. Yes, we do, yeah. So if we then started to really hone in on those parts and be quite specific, we would then start to notice that, you know, like for me, I have a people pleaser part. I also, what's linked to that people plays a part is guilt, yeah, I'm also might have, you know, we could have self sabotaging parts, yeah, we can have the cheerleader parts, yeah, you can do it. We believe in you. You know, just a little bit more. We have inner critic parts. I also have, what else would I have? Have an avoidant part. I have a really insecure anxious part. And that insecure anxious part might have many topics to be insecure about, yes, yeah. So see how now we're starting to, in a sense, delineate and going, oh, there's, there's, there's a lot that really makes me up. Yeah? And so from parts perspective, they actually they live in fear. Their base mode is fear, and they need to do things to feel safe. Yeah. Wow. So just consider your own behaviors and your own experience. What do I do that makes me feel safe? We could even look at OCD as a part,

Sally-Anne Kearns  21:49  
yeah, to control. It's what I can control. And my body wants to control something, and so there's

Maurice  21:55  
this perception of safety. Yeah, perfectionism is a part from an ifs lens, or there'd be a part that uses the characteristics of being a perfectionist, you know? So we can then start to look at and each part would have their own narrative. Makes sense. They're very specific. I believe I'm this versus you can't do that. They're different. So its own narrative, its own dialog. It'll have its own so belief system. So the belief system, the narrative, will be reflective of the belief system. It'll have its own feeling state, you know. So for me, when I feel guilt, I feel it in the lower solar plexus, whereas if I feel grief, it's usually in the upper chest and quite tight. If I feel the need that I need to speak about something, I'll get a rising, burning energy coming up, you know, my esophagus is going to speak now, now, now, now's the time. So I'm starting to track my experience, you know. So you've got, you know, dialog, narrative, feeling, state, obviously, behaviors. So that's going to come into it. We find that each part will have its own value system. So you know how loyalty we see? Loyalty is a really important value. That's a great value. Yeah, but sometimes we can compromise our own safety and sanity because we're loyal to a concept, loyal to an ideology, loyal to a person, yeah? So see how. But if I, if I stay loyal, I'll be a good person. So see how. There's the I'm fearing that I'm a bad person. So I'm going to use loyalty to show that I'm a good person, yeah?

Sally-Anne Kearns  23:35  
So fear is almost the underlying current you've the poly,

Maurice  23:44  
yeah, well, that's, that's the power, that's the pattern. Yeah, it's like anger. Most people get angry because there's an injustice. Yes, all right, so see how anger, the value of anger, is injustice.

Sally-Anne Kearns  23:56  
Yes, I'm not heard, I'm not understood, I'm not

Maurice  24:00  
whatever it is, you know, or there's a wrongdoing over there. There's an injustice. I need to speak up about it. So we don't, we don't judge injustice. We judge Anne.

Sally-Anne Kearns  24:11  
Yeah, it's essentially a behavior as a consequence of injustice, yeah, out

Maurice  24:17  
of the parts ethos then. So we've got these little mini me's all running around within us, and depending on the circumstance, who we're with, so the environment, the set and the setting, particular parts will appear. So it's sort of like who's driving the bus today, there's a beautiful guest by a beautiful poem by Rumi called the guest house. Yeah, I'll share it with you. And you know, it's basically, you know, you know which guests will come today. Will it? Will it be a, will it be a malice, or something like that, that sweeps the place, you know, full of everything, but it's, it's here to show you something. It's basically saying, invite each guest as an on each each, each arising as an honorable guest, because they're here to show you something

Sally-Anne Kearns  25:06  
part of our self, like part of that poly that you're talking about. Yeah. So invite the awareness, I guess. And so is that kind of what you're saying, going and going through the day, kind of observing your own versions of what's coming up, and then you're associating. You're not even making a judgment as to whether or not they're good or bad. You're just being curious,

Maurice  25:29  
being curious because each has got information for you. Say, anger does appear. Oh, hello, Anne. What? What are you angry about? There's an injustice occurring over there. Oh, okay, yeah. What would you like to do about that? What would you like to say about it? You know? And so I can get angry at the injustice, or I can get angry at myself, because I'm not doing something about it to see how anger can really it's got a lot of information for you, whereas if we the way we look at is explain your anger, rather than expressing it. Yes, yeah. So from a parts lens, we would say, can you speak for your part rather than from your part? Yeah, so from an acceptance, Commitment Therapy lens, can we create where, when we're fused, we're in the content. I am my part. When we're diffused, we're in context. I'm noticing that there's a part.

Sally-Anne Kearns  26:24  
And so I guess, how does so is ego apart?

Maurice  26:31  
So the parts are a part. And what I'd probably like to say is that so the other part, because it sounds like parts are all bad. So Richard Schwartz, Dick Schwartz, he's the founder of it. He's written a book called No Bad parts. Okay, wow, the parts aren't bad, no, they're actually safety mechanisms. Okay, okay, so anger doesn't allow you to be walked over. I'm going to stand up for myself. I'm going to, yeah, thank you, Anne, that's beautiful. Yeah. So because anger and courage, see how anger and courage, sometimes we get so angry that it creates the courage to speak up, yes, yeah. So on the other side of the penny, even though the same Penny is self energy, so we have parts energy. And I say parts energy because they feel like, you know, like, doesn't feel nice, that I need to do something to to be heard.

Sally-Anne Kearns  27:25  
Yeah, yeah. It's quite a physicality. Yeah, quite often, yeah.

Maurice  27:29  
Notice I can track it, yeah. So the other side of the coin is self. So self energy is characterized by the eight C's. Now primarily, you already feel safe, so you don't have to do something to feel safe. And so the eight C's, let's see if I can remember them. We have when you're calm, when you're creative, when you're curious, when you have courage, you have clarity, when there's confidence, that six there you hmm, compassion. And then there's one more see. So there's the eight season I can I can send you the details for them too. So whenever we're in these states, that's what self energy is. That's like equanimity, a neutral point, okay, I'm actually safe within my own experience, so I'm not firing off reactions or anything. I've got enough time to respond. I've got enough time to hold space for people. I'm curious and inquiring, I've got great compassion, and I'm already calm. So we would prefer to be prefer Well, we notice the difference between being self led when I'm calm and I'm safe, versus parts led when I'm not safe and I'm in fear and I need to control. Yeah? Now imagine the two different nervous systems. SNS, sympathetic is going to be bigger, yeah? Flight, so I need to Yeah, versus, you know, parasympathetic nervous system. I'm already calm. It's okay. So even if we look at from a nervous system perspective, the more we are in, you know, being self led, it's better for our nervous system, reducing the cortisol, we're reducing all the cytotoxins that are happening within the system. We're also more open with our perspective. We're more open with our heart, our relationships are going to be different, so that they're better or worse, it's more so that they're going to be different. And then there might be a preference. I'd prefer to have more of these experiences than these ones. So when these ones, these, let's call negative or the parts start to appear. I can go, Oh, I'm recognizing that there's some fear in the system, and this part wants to take over to allay the fear. Yeah, usually the part, though, is quite extreme in nature, so anger can't really tone its anger down. Not very good, because that's not part of its makeup. It's makeup is to get angry.

Sally-Anne Kearns  30:06  
Would anxiety play into that as well? Anxiety

Maurice  30:09  
can also be a part. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. So what then is can? What can influence is self, energy is actually going to talk to parts or anger. Go, hey, what's going on, little one? Yeah, okay, you you're concerned that there's an injustice occurring. Okay, what would you like to see? Right? You'd like us to talk about that, or at least acknowledge it cool. Can I, can I help speak for you? Yeah, so in this way, what we're doing is that the part is now actually being observed. It's being witnessed, and the witnessing process is really important. And do this if you want to, if you want to improve your relationships with anyone, witness them. And witnessing is a process where I see you, I hear you, and you matter. Imagine Yeah, like, imagine if you could be witnessed in that way every day. Oh, wow. That's incredible. Wow. And thank you for hearing thank you for the time of listening to me in a non judgmental way. Yeah, I didn't have to defend myself. I didn't feel attacked by you, I was just witnessed. Imagine the insecure parts that you have, the avoidant parts, the the angry parts, the overwhelmed parts. Imagine if they knew that there was something in the larger system that they could go to to be witnessed.

Sally-Anne Kearns  31:40  
Yeah, they'd feel a lot more confident in themselves. They'd probably circle back to the seas, that seat, that sea space, even talking to children, I can imagine through this lens, could be really empowering for them, yeah?

Maurice  31:54  
And so what primarily happens is we're creating a greater internal harmony, yeah? And we actually feel compassionate for those parts that are in fear. We have great empathy for those parts. And when those parts feel seen and heard, then they're open to an older, wiser part of the system, leading because up until then, they don't know. They think that they're doing the best thing. They don't know that there's something else in the system that could lead so they're having to do that themselves. And most of these parts, they say that they're frozen in time. So my my people plays a part was created when I was eight years of age. There was particular experience where people didn't like me for the way that I looked. I looked different, so I had a negative cognition of, I'm different, and that's not okay. Yeah. And so that part the people plays the part when you know what Don't be different. So don't do anything for yourself. You know, get really good at reading what other people's value system is, and you become that. Then you'll always be you'll always have a sense of belonging, you'll always be connected, and you'll always be seen as being valuable. Yay, now I'm invited in. Now I've got friends. Now I've got a sense of now I'm safe. So the people plays the part. Well, you know, it in its extreme, it becomes the martyr. You know, you just give and then when you're the martyr, another part comes up called resentment Yeah, and so resentments job is to go, hey, people pleaser, stop giving ourselves away, because now we're resenting ourselves for giving ourselves away. Initially, the resentment is towards another. I can't believe you. Why don't you treat me in the way that you know I'm I'm doing this all for you, and I don't receive that anything back. I just keep on giving and giving. You know, life isn't fair. People aren't fair. So the resentment is towards something outside of oneself, and then we then start to turn around, hang on. I'm actually that part is resenting, that part of me that continues to compromise its values so it can be connected.

Sally-Anne Kearns  34:18  
So these are pretty deep concepts. And I think about when I was at the epicenter of my own journey of health, where I was chronically unwell and it wasn't rational, when I was in fight or flight, and my nervous system was really dysregulated. I've not convinced that I would have even been able to take in these conversations because I was so dysregulated that these concepts would have been quite abstract. Yeah. So how are you finding the simplest way for people in overwhelm to start to step out? You know, like macro review, and start to have some curiosity with with these reactions. Because, yeah,

Maurice  35:09  
so possibly, sometimes, when one is not hasn't had the availability to practice, it's probably best to inquire into when I'm not feeling overwhelmed, because it's hard for me to feel anything other than overwhelmed when I'm overwhelmed. Good question. So what I could suggest is that we're pretty good at knowing what we'd like to get rid of in our lives. You know, I don't want to be so overwhelmed, I don't want to be so sensitive, you know, when I would be so angry, like we're I don't. So if you can identify what you don't want in your life, then that's a good place to start.

Sally-Anne Kearns  35:57  
Yeah, okay, it's good reframe. Yeah.

Maurice  36:01  
And so if and if I know what I don't want, then if I think of the opposite, it might be what I do want. So that's a really good way to reframe things, because, you know, has sometimes say, Well, what do you want in life? You go, I don't really know, because we're really good with that. So if, if I want to get say, I want to get rid of jealousy, alright, I'm really sensitive about my partner, and I'm feeling jealous, you know, okay, cool, right? Rather than trying to chop it out and saying I'm bad person because I'm doing that, just go, Okay, what would be, what would be the role of jealousy? What would be the function of jealousy,

Sally-Anne Kearns  36:44  
keeping someone safe,

Maurice  36:46  
yeah, and then you go, how does it? How does it keep you safe? The jealousy is that I'm so jealousy, see,

Sally-Anne Kearns  36:54  
self worth, like, yeah, yeah.

Maurice  36:56  
Well, that that's right. So it would be jealousy is about not being hurt, I guess, yeah, please. And whenever we're jealous, we're sort of saying, Hey, can you please not do that? Or, you know, like it's trying to control so it's, it's potentially an afraid being hurt. So there'll be a fear to it. So what's its role? And then what's its fear? So you go, Okay, what's the fear of jealousy? Well, the fear is that I'll be alone, and the fear is that that I won't be loved, that sort of thing. So you go, Oh, wow. So when we're going to start to recognize the part as actually having a function, it's trying to keep me safe. It's trying to keep me safe from emotional turmoil, and it's actually concerned that that I won't be okay if I'm alone. So we can then just start to reframe it a little bit and go, Oh, wow, that's really interesting, that that experience that I have, that I normally want to push away, there's actually some value in it. Beautiful. Yeah, now that that's a really just a short reframe that you can do just by inquiring into and then you go, Okay, what about anxiety? Anxiety is definitely there to keep you safe.

Sally-Anne Kearns  38:09  
Yeah, fear of the future and, you know, fear of the unknown, or Yeah, overwhelmed.

Maurice  38:15  
So I used to find so overwhelmed, polyvagal, you know, going to put you into dorsal overwhelm Was it when I had too much information and I didn't know what to do with it? That's a good one. So it shuts me down. I can't deal with anything, and now I've got to go to sleep, you know, like my overwhelm used to put me on the, you know, on the sofa, and I'd have to sleep for like, half an hour just to try to catch Yeah,

Sally-Anne Kearns  38:42  
so you've sort of, I think I might know the answer to this question, but there's a, there's a bit of a theory happening around something called global awakening. And what I feel like, what you've just described, you know, this, this awareness, this observation that removing the duality just sort of letting the waves come and being aware of the waves, versus just making it right or wrong and creating a separation. I feel like this is, in a way, like this awareness piece and this curiosity piece is actually the turning point for global awakening. Do you feel that there is a rise of consciousness happening from where you sit at the moment?

Maurice  39:32  
Yeah, the challenge to the answer is this, that there's could be a cognitive bias, and because I'm in this field, and I'm naturally going to see more and more of it. I'm not necessarily hanging around people who that aren't becoming more. Actually, there's a couple of people I see, bless them, and you know, it's yeah, that's another whole conversation. Yeah. I personally think that there's, there's something happening that I feel people are remembering

Sally-Anne Kearns  40:15  
who they are or what they're part of.

Maurice  40:17  
Yeah, they're connected. There seems to be some type of deeper connection, wider connection. You know, we do have a lot of the old systems in a sense that we could say that they're they're being revealed, which I think is just a matter of time anyway. You'll see more and more of it. The challenge with that, though, see how our parts get really angry when things get revealed as well.

Sally-Anne Kearns  40:44  
I think if we're viewing it through the lens of separation, the only thing that I feel we have control over is ourselves in that manner, like it's And so yes, things are being revealed, but we also need to take our responsibility for the decisions that we make in our life, and we're making them from the basis of the information that we have at the time. And I think if we become like what you say, if we're recognizing the patterns of fear that are underlying these decisions that we may regret, that we made or may not, then we can actually look at it and go, Okay, so if this was to happen again, what, where would I, you know, how would I respond to this situation? Yeah, the next time.

Maurice  41:32  
And do I have the courage to do that?

Sally-Anne Kearns  41:35  
Yeah, and if I don't, then that's okay, you know? Because this is, like, it's not about, in my opinion, being right or wrong. It's just we look at things once we've experienced them, and go, Oh, that's really interesting. And I think there's been a big turning in in the last sort of 48 months. Well, that's how I feel. I feel, even with myself, kind of going deeper. I'm going into that next, the next layers of, you know, this polyvagal theory, really doing a lot of nervous system work, and that's allowing me to feel safe, to actually open the door, to look at some of these stuff from childhood, which may not be serving me any longer, but it's been a very long time and a journey to get to that point, you know, of this maturity, so to Speak.

Maurice  42:17  
Yeah, yeah. Look, there's, there's many stories. Um, I'm I used to love getting caught up in stories and rabbit holes and conspiracy theories, and there was a lot of energy that would go into it. And what I'm noticing now that nowadays, as you say, you know, can we, can we just come back to our own experience and what's actually happening here? So whether it's that story, that story, that person, this, you know, organization, government, whatever it is, what's happening within me now, now that I have that information, Anne's our parts, and so our parts actually live in separation. That's that's their ethos, and that's the way that they're supposed to be. And it's the self energy that is the reharmonizing of it. So with this internal experience that I'm having, I'm reharmonizing, and it's impacting what's happening externally, too. So we potentially have an opportunity to reharmonize consciousness by becoming aware of our parts internally and externally, because the parts which are manifest externally are all of the fear based processes, the fear based templates, the fear based organizations, you know. So there's a micro and a macro that can can happen here as well. I do feel that there is a shift. Feel there's more and more people remembering becoming more conscious, becoming more aware of what in whatever their own experience is, but probably more so them. I think that's where the key is, is that the more that you can become aware of you, you are adding to the collective awareness of us as a whole as well. I do. I do like the way like, I'll just say the word like. I do like the way that we can meet our experience through acceptance, commitment, therapy, through internal family systems through the non judgmental acceptance of what here is present and what here that is present is actually here because it's supposed to be here. Yes, yeah, there's some really beautiful non dual teachings where we can recognize when we are out of the now, when we suggest that there's a better now, yes, yeah, so that's, that's the key for probably my practice, probably in the last four to six months, is being more present with what is now, and rather than mind going to future and then past, and then also the observation of how the mind layers judgment onto experiences and gives it in a sense of meaning. It's beautiful that that's what we do as humans, and that's what we do is with the mind, we attribute meaning to things, just being aware of the meaning that we're attributing to it and recognizing that that we're giving it meaning it doesn't intrinsically mean that.

Sally-Anne Kearns  45:35  
I need to write that one down.

Maurice  45:37  
Yeah, that's a t shirt one. That

Sally-Anne Kearns  45:40  
one, you get a few looks, and people be like, What do you mean? So good. That's so powerful. I feel like we could continue this conversation for hours. And I love what you're doing with these principles, because what in essence, you're slowing things down in but in order to quicken things up, right? Because essentially, when we do go in, we can, really, we have, we have to, I feel like we all need to go through these processes. It's kind of part of what needs to happen next. And the faster we do it, the faster you know there'll be that joy, the love, the peace, the internal peace that we're all kind of seeking, because now all of a sudden, we've not attached judgment to anything. It's just compassion and love. And we're sort of operating more out of those C words that you talked about, that persona, that self, Persona which has got its place in the world. It knows that it's connected to all things, and it is

Maurice  46:48  
love, yeah. And just to add to that, like if I was consciousness, and I wanted to if I was consciousness, and I wanted to create the qualities of consciousness by wearing a glove in the mind, it would be via those eight C's,

Sally-Anne Kearns  47:05  
yeah, yeah,

Maurice  47:07  
because it suggests that, you know, consciousness is compassionate, that it it is calm, there's courage in it, you know, there's creativity, you know, there's connectivity. So there's all these beautiful characteristics of that which, from Richard Schwartz's perspective, is the essence of self, the essence of who we are, the the fear, protective, safety mechanisms of the parts were created at a time where there wasn't enough self energy that was present. So our parts are actually holding space enough. So the ego, in a sense, is is keeping us alive until consciousness becomes aware, which is very similar to this raising consciousness of the planet at the moment. Because, you know, it's the, it's the 3d ego that's been running the show, in a sense, but now it's it's held it safe enough now for consciousness to rise, and then we start to remember and and, and maybe act or move from that place, rather than from fear.

Sally-Anne Kearns  48:17  
So people would like to go deeper with these concepts and the work that you're doing, like, how? How do they find you? What? What are you doing next, that you're excited about?

Maurice  48:27  
Yeah, well, we've got a meditation center here in Townsville. It's called Inner Light in the Light Meditation Center, we've got a website there in the light meditation center.com, you can go there. You can contact me on that. I've got some of my services on that we do breath work. We, you know, we do the internal family systems. I also have mentoring programs. We've had quite a few young men come on recently, which I find, once again, interesting, that these these young ones are waking up at this time. You know, they're remembering. And, man, I wish I had someone like me when I was, you know, a young man that would have been so much easier, but it would have been more supportive. I would have felt more I was so alone when I grew up, you know. So I guess that's with this type of thinking. So, yeah, so I've got all of those things, probably just best to contact us through the through the website, not really on Instagram that much, but more so the website, that'd be the one incredible.

Sally-Anne Kearns  49:35  
Thank you so much for your time. I feel really blessed to have been able to explore these concepts with you. And I love what you're doing in the world. I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart to the top of my head, and just keep being amazing and shining your light.

Maurice  49:51  
Thank you, Sally, and I really appreciate the opportunity to reconnect with you again, and you know, over this time, and then just be able to for both of us to be continuing on this path. You know, finding what it is that we need to find for ourselves and also being that for others. Too, beautiful.

Sally-Anne Kearns  50:09  
Thank you. Awesome. Well, that's so I've stopped the recording, even though the transcriptor is still having a moment, but yeah, thank you so much. I'll send the file through to Leanne, and when she puts it up on the live, she'll add in her commentary, and no doubt, when I get your other I'll get it and flick it to you. So if you feel like sharing, you can. And I'm excited to see what happens next? Because it sounds like you've really anchored in to that sort of next phase of supporting people. Cool, yeah,

Maurice  50:50  
one thing that I wasn't willing to share and and yet it's been part of the journey since I last saw you, is psychedelic assisted therapy.

Sally-Anne Kearns  51:01  
Oh, okay, cool, yeah.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai