The Future Is Female

In this episode, the Good Mood Marketing trio sits down with Jenn Cassidy, Senior Vice President of Operations at Cardinal Group. From grassroots beginnings to vice president leadership responsibilities, Jenn has seen just about every corner of the real estate and student housing world. Jenn is also one of the masterminds behind the W Collective — an initiative led by women, for women, to help foster confidence in their leadership abilities. Find out more about Jenn Cassidy’s experience by listening here.

Jenn Cassidy
Jenn Cassidy is Senior Vice President of Operations at Cardinal Group. Jenn began her career by working on site at several student housing communities, then began to grow into corporate-level leadership with Campus Advantage. She’s a big proponent of self-growth, leadership, and understanding the why behind company initiatives. Jenn has also helped launch the W Collective, an organization that helps women navigate leadership in real estate's male-dominated industry.

Transcript

Christy McFerren:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of Good Mood Marketing, the podcast where we talk about all good things marketing, agency life, and the real estate industry. I'm really excited because today we're here with Jenn Cassidy, a very special guest and very special friend of mine. She's the SVP of Student Housing Operations at Cardinal Group, and she's an inspiring leader with a phenomenal story of rising from the grassroots level to the executive level. And we're excited here to just get into her mind and her growth and how she's gone through that journey today. She has a reputation for bringing others along with her along the way, including myself. She helped spot my leadership abilities and helped me get into the seat I'm in. So we're just here to learn more about Jenn, you, yourself, your journey, and your career. So would love to hear you kind of discuss your background.

Jenn Cassidy:

Well, thanks for having me. I can't stop smiling cuz it's just good to see you. It's funny, there's certain people in your life, like, no matter how far you go or don't see each other, they just sort of bring you back to feeling at home. So, I appreciate you having me, and the lovely introduction, but, so my story for those that haven't heard it, was not going the path of real estate. I grew up one of four, and was always very academically inclined and kind of chose like, I'm gonna be pre-med, I'm gonna become a doctor really early on. And went to school at University of South Florida mainly because I was able to get a full ride through programs that Florida offered academically to any state school. And also wanted to be close to home because I have a big Italian family and they all live in the Tampa area. So I was going to school and living in a private residence hall and applied for a community assistant job to cover my rent and, you know, basic customer service skills at the time that I had from my years of waitressing at the bowling alley. And I really liked it.

Christy McFerren:

I can totally see that, Jenn.

Katie Degutis:

I love that. <laugh>

Jenn Cassidy:

I just really liked, it was a way for me to come out of my shell with my peers. I was always very timid growing up. For those that know me now, would probably never believe that. And I started to learn more about, like, property operations. And obviously being a resident, you don't quite understand the logistics that go into running a building. But I still didn't think, oh, this is what I'm gonna do as a career. And spent five or six years moving around different positions on-site. I graduated college and was contemplating going to physician's assistant school. And I'll never forget — shoutout to Dan Oltersdorf — when Campus Advantage took over my community in 2006, he came and he did a residence life training and he said that student housing was unique because you get the ability to impact people's lives at such a critical part in their journey. And the reason that I wanted to pursue medicine to begin with was exactly that, was just to be able to help people and have an impact on people, and I never really, up until that point had thought about student housing in that way. And it was just really like a click moment for me of, you're already doing this and it's gonna allow you to have an impact in a lot of the same ways. And I remember right then and there saying like, this is it, this is what I'm gonna do. And it's been a really rewarding and fun journey ever since.

Katie Degutis:

I love that too, because it's like, you're not necessarily dealing with them in a situation of emergency or concern or anything. It's like the opportunity to kind of help direct them and guide them even in good times.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah. Then sometimes there are emergencies too, right? <laugh> Being student housing.

Jenn Cassidy:

I know mom and dad definitely appreciated it in the emergency situations more often than not, for sure.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah.

Thomas Demiranda:

I was looking at your career arc and peeping on your LinkedIn and I saw, like, just how long you were at each company and the longevity of that. And I was wondering when did it click that you wanted to stay in the space? Because you said originally you didn't, you weren't planning, you know, to be in real estate more, you know, studying pre-med. When did it kind of click that you're like, you know, I really enjoy this and I want to be doing this?

Jenn Cassidy:

Yeah, so I started as a community assistant in 1999 and I wanna say it was 2006 where it was like, this is what I'm gonna do. And I had started with a company that is no longer — College Park Communities ultimately was acquired by American Campus — and that company was very, very resident-experience focused. And then I left for a while and worked for a small developer, which really gave me a great opportunity to understand a smaller company, the other side of the business. I got to travel and then I was managing a community that Campus Advantage ultimately came in and took over the management of. And you know, I don't, it's, you can obviously never look back and say what would've been, but I don't know what my journey would have been if it wasn't CA that came in. I have always felt really grateful and fortunate for so much growth opportunity with one company.

Jenn Cassidy:

I'll never forget in the early days, Mike Peter, the CEO coming in to tour my community and not telling me, but going on a tour with my staff and me pretending like I didn't see him and let him do his thing. And then he came and sat down with me at the end and asked me what I thought of his company and I spent the next three hours telling him. Which I don't think he was prepared for, but you know, I share that because it was a smaller company at the time and it was an environment where I felt comfortable to say what I thought. And I think that that candor allowed me for a lot of growth over the years. And you know, I feel super fortunate for that. I think I gained so much great experience while on site and then just learned so much and had such a great foundation when I moved to the corporate level because I understood what the experience of being on site was. And I've always felt like that is really, really important even today to stay relevant to what the experience is for an on-site team member.

Christy McFerren:

So did you want to kind of tell us a little bit more about how you foster your growth, how you continue to do that? I see a stack of books next to you, <laugh>. Talk to us a little bit about your journey in self-reflection and leadership.

Jenn Cassidy:

Yeah, so I've always been somebody that, like one of Cardinal's core values is to pursue growth and knowledge, I think that's always been sort of part of who I am. I always love school for that reason. I've always been somebody that's generally curious. I mean, you guys know, I probably ask more detailed marketing questions than most people because I like understanding the "why." I think when I left Campus Advantage, it really was a shift for me in understanding that my role and where I was on my journey was really shifting in terms of being able to invest in other people. And part of that was, how do I be the best leader I can be? And what do I need to look at within myself to be able to do that? So, you know, it's been a combination of a lot of things.

Jenn Cassidy:

I'm very fortunate to be part of an organization that really prioritizes that. So, I've gotten the benefit of working with, you know, some tremendous leaders, Peter Lynch, our Chief People officer, and, you know, benefiting from a lot of speakers that we've brought in. But I've always loved reading and just pursuing different aspects of things and like, taking into account multiple different perspectives. And most recently in the last year, I hired a personal professional coach, which, what I thought that experience was gonna be like and what it has been like has been very different. It's a very introspective exercise and I would say it's been so beneficial for me at this part of my own leadership journey because I think we often get in our own way. We think sometimes the things that are problematic for us are a result of our environment or other people.

Jenn Cassidy:

And I think through coaching it's really made me look internally at, you know, what are some of my tendencies and where those come from and why are they what they are, and you know, how do I use my strengths to my benefit? So yeah, I think it's just a constant investment in yourself and, you know, I'm a big believer that you can't pour from an empty cup and our job as leaders is to pour into others. So, I look at those things as investments, not just in myself, but for my team as well.

Katie Degutis:

I love that. I think along that you said that you were at a place where you wanted to kind of identify and bring forward other leaders as well. And as Christy mentioned in her opening that that's certainly something you did with her when you were still at Campus Advantage. I believe you're interested in some women's initiatives as well, kind of in the student housing space. Can you tell us a little bit about that, and kind of how people can get involved in that if they're interested?

Jenn Cassidy:

Sure. So I don't think it's any secret. Our industry is changing rapidly and involving, and I am here for it. Like it was time, it was needed. It's been really exciting to see the diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives just across the student housing space and so many companies just stepping up and offering better benefits and family leave. And one of the initiatives within Cardinal when I joined was business resource groups. And so I got immediately involved in the Women in Leadership group, and it was one of the most-attended, most-engaged business resource groups at the time. And I think it just really highlighted that women want that collaboration and that, you know, community with each other. And through that and then talking with other industry leaders, there was just a lot of conversation around how our industry is still very male-dominated. And we really wanted to bring forth an initiative to bring women within the industry together to share, like, challenges and also to create opportunities for women in the ways that opportunities sort of organically existed for men within our space.

Jenn Cassidy:

So we launched the W Collective at interface last year and unfortunately NMHC (National Multifamily Housing Council) was canceled this year due to the hurricane. So that would've been our next big get together. But we're able to bring women together. We did a women's focus panel, since then, and we've put some content out online, and are looking to kind of continue the initiative through industry events and potentially like virtual learning opportunities, but really with a goal of kind of normalizing the challenges that women face, not just even in our industry but just in general. I mean, you can probably relate as a working mom now Christy, that like, priorities change, things change, and how do you still continue to do a great job at work but then balance that with all the other responsibilities that come at home. And I think for a long time there was a stigma with talking about that, and also women were a bit disadvantaged in the workplace, and I'm really happy to see that that's changing and just wanna be part of helping other younger women leaders rise.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah, I've really noticed that so many companies are coming forward with benefits to assist in, you know, creating a family and Campus advantage just upgraded our maternity leave, or parental leave, totally across the board to 12 weeks. And I think that's becoming a standard. And I recently took like, half of that or so, and I was like, I feel like I was gone for an eternity and I still have like, half more left. And you know, we'll have to plan it according to my son's needs and you know, what makes sense with the business. And I think it's an exchange too. Like you want to do right by the business, and you want to be there and be your full self and be present, especially during seasons that are pivotal for the company. But knowing, you know, because babies go through phases, and knowing you can take a little bit now when you're first getting started, but you know, when he has that fall back on sleep, or when we have the surgery coming up or, you know, there's different sections of his development that will be, you know, useful to have that opportunity to be available to him.

Christy McFerren:

So I think it's really admirable that the industry is really shifting in that way and it's shown to prove that people stay longer in their roles. Like there's, there's so much more longevity, there's so much more loyalty built by being able to know that, hey, I don't have to change my whole universe, you know, because I'm going through enough change as it is right now. And so I think that's really one great element of it. But with the, The W Collective, I know that it's kind of in an evolutionary period, but what would be tangible kind of goals or outcomes that you would like to see as a result of it over the next few years?

Jenn Cassidy:

We'd love to see more women in leadership positions. I think we're starting to see that really change on the operations side of the industry, but there's still a gap in the investment side of the industry. And some of that too is just educating women about the pathways that exist. And, you know, it's hard representation means everything. So if you can't see a woman in that role, how is it hard to envision yourself getting there? So I think just really education around all the paths that you can take in real estate. Last year for Women's History Month I did a panel with a couple of industry leaders. So Jacqueline Fitz, Teddy Leatherman, Kristen Penrod, you know, women who are kind of in roles in our industry that are atypical to see women in. And I think it's important to highlight those stories because there is sort of this subconscious feeling of like, this is the path I need to go cause it's the path most taken and it's like, let's elevate the path least taken and show women that hey, if you really love this side of the business, go for it. Like there are women that have charted this course for you.

Christy McFerren:

That's awesome.

Katie Degutis:

And I love that you said that — that's kind of the point of it is bringing people together to collaborate with it, instead of like the natural position of competing with one another. You're always kind of, like, growing up as a woman, you're taught like fight for your man, or like, you have to fight for your place in all of that. It's always very competitive instead of a group being together and collaborating.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah. That's beautiful. I know that you have also your hand in another project that's affiliated with the Hi, How Are You? Project here in Austin — one that's really true to our hearts here at Catalyst because we have so much focus on mental health as well. We've kind of led the charge within our company to put forward mental health hours as separate from PTO, and you know, a few other initiatives that we have initiated here. So this involvement with Hi, How Are You? being here in Austin, I'm very interested to learn more about that and how people can participate and engage in that.

Jenn Cassidy:

Yeah, I think in terms of the things I've been involved with in the span of my career, the College Student Mental Wellness Advocacy Coalition probably tops the list as one I'm the most proud of. My oldest son is 13, for those of you that worked with me for a while, that's really hard to conceive of.

Christy McFerren:

<laugh>

Jenn Cassidy:

Middle school is wild. But I did a What's on your Mind for Student Housing Business, and you know, I think I really tried to articulate it there. And I told him when it got published, I wanted him to read it cause I wanted him to understand that so much of my passion for this stems from understanding, as I'm getting closer to the age of a parent of a college student, how important this is, and already seeing the mental health implications that my son's facing as a 13 year old.

Jenn Cassidy:

But you know, I think it was October of 2021, I remember I was in New York. I was standing in the lobby of a hotel and Eddie Moreno, who was my team lead at the time, called me and we had a horrible, you know, suicide incident at a property in Corpus Christi and he said, "There's gotta be more we can do. There just has to be more we can do." And I thought back to as the industry came together during Covid and like everyone was just so transparent in navigating, like, the business implications. And I thought to myself, if we could navigate that, what is the power of our scale to navigate this? And so, you know, I started reaching out to, you know, industry peers saying like, what's your appetite for a mental health initiative? And a lot of people were really interested, a lot of very busy people <laugh>.

Christy McFerren:

Um, that's awesome.

Jenn Cassidy:

And you know, to get something like this off the ground takes a lot of effort. So American Campus reached out, which, obviously was a huge deal to have them say like, "Hey, we wanna be a part of this." And they have already had a established partnership with Hi, How Are You? And we're able to bring them into the fold. So Gina Cowort with ACC has been just a huge partner in this; Casey Petersen from Peak, and Richie Lasek from Core Spaces. The four of us initially kind of formed the Leadership Coalition and then reached out to the rest of the industry. And I think we landed with 24 total groups. Campus Advantage being one of 'em, representing 800,000 lives. And, there's so much we want to accomplish, but we really want to be thoughtful and make sure that we are really responding to what our residents are telling us.

Jenn Cassidy:

So our first initiative was actually the first Student Thrive Index, which, we worked with Ipsos to deploy a survey. And that survey was actually just published a week or two ago. And some of the big takeaways from that were just how impactful students' connection to their communities is to their overall wellbeing. And I think that, you know, we have a lot of students that are struggling. Either they're feeling challenged about their situation today, but they're optimistic about the future, or maybe they're not optimistic about the future or today. So really understanding those results at a national level, but then for each of the companies to understand what do our results look like and how do we change our programming to respond to what our residents are telling us. There's so much we wanna accomplish in terms of, you know, bringing a resource hub to bring together all of the resources for mental health that are available so that students have access to that before they need it. You know, the goal of the coalition from day one is, if we save one person's life, we did our job here. Like that is the goal, is to make sure no one ever feels alone. And you know, I say a shoutout to the entire industry for truly showing an investment in the wellbeing of our residents. Like, real estate is real estate, and people invest in it to make money, but what a beautiful thing to have so many people come together and and wanna make sure that we're impacting lives in the process.

Christy McFerren:

What would you say is like, is there anything from that report yet that's like, the lowest-hanging fruit that would be immediate changes that could be made?

Jenn Cassidy:

You know, I thought one of the things that isn't a total surprise, but had me thinking, is like, students cited music as like one of the number one things that they use for like calming and dealing with stress. And I remember back in the day when like amenities were starting to blow up and people were putting in like Bluetooth speakers in the shower and everyone was like, this is insane. And like thinking through that, it's like, how do we bring the ease of having music in living spaces and just simple things like that. I actually think there's so much for developers to consider in how they program spaces and just access to sunlight and, you know, shared spaces and just natural places and opportunities for people to gather. I think at one point the unit itself was like, everyone was so focused on like, what are the conditions of living in the unit? I actually think students have really shifted their focus to what is it like? How are their natural instances within the community to like force togetherness and like help without relationship development? Because I mean, I see it with my son. Everyone's face down in their phones, everyone's instant gratification through TikTok and so it's hard to find a natural way to connect with people.

Christy McFerren:

Mm-hmm. That's really, it'll be really inspiring to see the industry's response to the findings there. And I love the music being incorporated more. And one thing that would be, like, I love plant life and, you know, having plants and more biophilic design is kind of high trending right now, so it would be interesting to see some of that come along with the...

Katie Degutis:

Community gardens.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah, there you go. Community gardens we're back to...

Katie Degutis:

Get people not looking at their phone. But together. <Laugh>

Christy McFerren:

Yeah. Well, and I wonder too, I wonder if it'll start to show in the data that doing, you know, projects of giving back together as a community could be like a really way to unite people and connect people.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah. So Jen, I know you mentioned a little bit more about different initiatives such as mental health and DEI initiatives and I know that those, at least for the last couple years, kind of came right after the pandemic and companies just kind of doubling down on those things and actually acting on it. And so I was wondering if there's any other initiatives, or even just perspectives, that kind of changed for you after the pandemic, with how you relate o the folks you lead, or even how you relate to work and family life. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Jenn Cassidy:

Sure. So, I always say I'm an "OG work from home." I've been doing this for 15 years, so it was quite amusing to see the shift around me. I think for a long time there was this perception of like, oh, it must be so nice to work from home, and then everyone's working from home and working crazy hours and like, how do you separate work and life? And so I don't think the personal adjustment was as significant as what I saw happening around me. What was super interesting was, like, all of our clients were working from home too, and like a lot of our male asset managers didn't know what to do with like kids running around and interrupting calls and like, hold on my two year old! It was, was quite amusing early on. But I think what became apparent to everyone really quickly is it was going to be harder to connect.

Jenn Cassidy:

Everyone was virtual and there had to be a lot of intentionality around really connecting with people and getting on video, and not just having a phone call and really asking like, "How are you doing?" I mean, the whole world was dealing with isolation, and sickness, and fear, and I think it brought people closer together. It's been interesting to see just how much the world has shifted as a result. I think Covid accelerated what would've eventually happened. But now we're in what I think is being labeled like the future of work, right? Like we're never going back to what was before. And I think a lot of organizations have tried to resist that. And the reality is that, you know, people want some flexibility. I believe there needs to be structured flexibility, you know, because there still needs to be a focus on work is work and home is home.

Jenn Cassidy:

But I think it's more accepted now that we're all people outside of our jobs. We all are, you know, the most important person to our kids, or our spouse, or our family. Even if we're the most important person to somebody at work. And I know for certain that we all gave each other more grace, and I hope that that is a trend that continues. But I think now we're starting to see like structured flexibility and I think that's a great thing especially for, you know, parents who for years so many people spent, what, I mean in Austin traffic, 2-3 hours a day commuting to and from work. So getting that time back, even if it's two or three days a week, I think to your point earlier Christy, about you know, what that means to loyalty. Like to know that you're seen for what you need as a person and you can show up better for your family that matters to people. And you know, I applaud organizations for evolving.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah.

Thomas Demiranda:

That's awesome.

Katie Degutis:

It's funny that you said that about, like, the connection. Because I remember especially early on when big group things were like, oh, let's have a happy hour or something like that. It's like, then you just all get on a call and watch two people have a conversation because you can't naturally have the side conversations you would have in person or anything.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah.

Katie Degutis:

And it was like, well it's been fun eavesdropping over here, but <laugh>.

Christy McFerren:

I remember we watched a movie together...

Katie Degutis:

Nacho Libre!

Christy McFerren:

We watched Nacho Libre <laugh>.

Thomas Demiranda:

That was my recommendation.

Christy McFerren:

It was, I mean, and it was like, those times are kind of nostalgic now. You know, it was a terrible time the world was going through, so there's always like the serious tone to it. But at the same time we bonded in weird and unique ways that I would never ever watch a movie on Teams with anyone ever again.

Katie Degutis:

I would never have watched that movie either.

Christy McFerren:

<laugh> So exhausting to think of trying to hang out online. Unless it's like this, where you're like, you live where you live and we're here. And it's like, you know, this is the only way we can connect and it's beautiful for what it is, but it's also like, I love that we've kind of swung back to the middle a little bit, while keeping the best of what we learned, you know, during the pandemic, because it is important. I think for us around this table, Katie adopted a dog, I fostered four children and then decided I wanted a son forever, and Thomas's girls were born during that time. And our whole personal lives have fully changed and it's largely due to the flexibility that we discovered during that time. And so I think it's, you know, almost in a way there was a silver lining to that time where people could kind of breathe a little easier in certain ways. That's a terrible turn of phrase for that period, but <laugh> but you know, it just, it was, it resulted in fruit in our lives that's really important now.

Katie Degutis:

There's definitely that, um, the issue of people having to deal with their kids coming in, and then I deal with the issue of any car that goes by. My dog has got to let me know Amazon is here.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah. Or Reggie...

Katie Degutis:

Someone is trying to come in our domain.

Christy McFerren:

Delivery guys and Reggie.

Jenn Cassidy:

Well funny story from me. So before the pandemic, I think my kids thought I was an Orange Theory instructor because I would always be in workout clothes and then take them to school and either, you know, at the time you didn't need to be camera ready, not everything was on video. So then Covid happens, and they're going to school from home and they'd see me in my office and walking, and be like, oh, you're on a call. And like he's like, oh, they get it now. They actually do work when they're at school. Like I'm not just sitting here in my workout clothes working out for 10 hours a day.

Christy McFerren:

Mom drinking coffee and walking the dog <laugh>. That'd be nice, wouldn't it? Cool. Well, we actually wanted to talk to you a little bit about marketing too.

Katie Degutis:

Definitely. As someone in operations myself, I wanted to kind of see what do you look for in a marketing agency and what drives success for you? Or how do you want your agency to be thinking about you as a client?

Jenn Cassidy:

Yeah. So I feel like everything is changing always in the marketing world. And it's funny. I had an internal call with Agency 53 today, which is our internal agency. And I was talking to their team, and there was a lot of new team members, and I was talking about partnership. And I think with operations and marketing agencies, that's all what it is. Like your work can make operations look good, and operations work can make your work look good, but neither one of those things works well in isolation. And you know, we've had many a conversation around, like, your services can yield leads, but if our team doesn't convert those to leases, like how does that make the product look? So, it's always about the partnership mentality, and I think just education for operators, we just have to know a lot about a lot. And you guys are the subject matter experts, and I feel like marketing is becoming more and more specialized.

Jenn Cassidy:

There's just so many different nuances to different services, and tactics, and metrics to look at. And I think, you know, agencies that can do a good job of educating their partners, that is so valuable. And it's like anything else, like having a relationship, it's like, you know, I don't wanna look at Catalyst as Catalyst, like I wanna see Christy or Thomas. Like, I wanna know who that person is on the other side. So I think it's just relationship and education and truly an investment in like what is good performance — and that alignment between both groups and what that looks like.

Christy McFerren:

That's awesome. Yeah, that's a big area of focus and always, always the equation to be solving for sure. Oh, I think you had...

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah, I was just gonna say, I guess we have, like, a more personal question and I think you may have mentioned this in the beginning, but if you weren't in student housing, what do you think you'd be doing right now?

Jenn Cassidy:

That's a tough question. So, I've always joked about being a fitness instructor, although I don't think I'm fit enough to do it. But I joke around a lot about how if I didn't have to think about it, I could just choose anything, I feel like I would be like the most amazing Starbucks barista. I feel like I could just bring on the positivity in the drive-through and make people really happy getting their coffee. So, I don't know. When I think about like, if I wasn't doing this, what would I be doing? I just think about something much like this that I would really, like, enjoy and get up every day and be excited about doing. So I don't know that that a barista's in my future, but one can dream, right? <Laugh>

Christy McFerren:

There's sort of a through-line in all of your alternative career scenarios of making people have a better day. So I love that. It's so true to who you are.

Katie Degutis:

I know with, kind of, again, you talked about leadership and kind of what you like to do as far as fostering that within your team and within other departments. What would you say is your single greatest piece of wisdom or advice that you would pass on to other leaders?

Jenn Cassidy:

Ooh, one! That's super hard.

Christy McFerren:

Or three <laugh>.

Christy McFerren:

Okay. I could probably keep it to three. There's probably like, I always have a reminders thing saved on my computer that I try to remember all the time. I think the one thing I've always, always, always gone back to is the Maya Angelou quote about what people remember and "they don't remember what you said or what you did, but they remember how you made them feel." If I go back over my journey, I've had lots of great conversations, and not lots of not-so-great ones, but I've been really fortunate to have had leaders that thought about that conversation and how it's gonna make me feel and always made me feel respected and valued. And I think if you can show up in that way every day, like, that's amazing. And just treat people, I guess now it's not treat people how you wanna be treated, but how they wanna be treated.

Jenn Cassidy:

You know, that's super important. And then I would say in the last couple years, the thing I've really gravitated towards is having the courage to be the leader you already are. Like, I think so many times we kind of put ourselves in a box, right? And like, you hesitate to challenge or be the loudest voice in the room, or say what you think because it might not be the most popular opinion. And I just always try to remind myself that, you know, if your intent is good, like, sometimes it's courageous to say things, but you know, the other end of that could be a lot, lot better for everyone involved. And lastly I would say, I can't remember where I heard this. I wanna say it was maybe Kristen Hadeed, but "our limitations make space for the gift of others."

Jenn Cassidy:

That was so impactful to me because I always viewed weaknesses as bad. And when I started to look at like, wow, if I'm weak in this area, that means somebody that's strong in there, like I have an opportunity to really bring them to the forefront and highlight that. I think that's awesome. And I really try to look for that now, and remind myself you don't need to know everything. You're surrounded by amazing people, and we're all very diverse, and you know, other people can rise in areas that aren't your strengths. So those would be my top three.

Christy McFerren:

That's beautiful.

Katie Degutis:

I love that.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah, those are all very, very solid pieces of wisdom. I'll have to be meditating on those a little bit. <laugh> Oh man, Jenn, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time today. I know your time is very valuable and we really appreciate you joining us. We have one final question. What has you in a good mood today?

Jenn Cassidy:

Oh, I'll have to give you two, cause I can never go with just one. So my oldest son is playing middle school basketball. His third game is tonight. And it's so, so fun to watch your kids pursue their passions and his game on Monday was literally right to the buzzer. So looking forward to that. And then my parents are celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary on Saturday. So it's been a really busy season with, like, personal things, but anytime I feel overwhelmed, I always remind myself like they're all really great things. Like celebrating an anniversary, you know, getting to attend things that your kids love. So just a lot of great things happening around me and just feeling really blessed for that.

Christy McFerren:

Beautiful. Thomas?

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah, continuing on the family theme, this Saturday I'm taking my oldest daughter to a dance. A daddy/daughter dance. It'll be our first one. And I got her, I bought her a dress. So on Saturday I'm gonna surprise her because you know, with toddlers you can't tell them like five days before.

Jenn Cassidy:

How old is she?

Thomas Demiranda:

She's like three and a half.

Jenn Cassidy:

Oh my goodness. Time flies.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah. Yeah. So 'm gonna surprise her on Saturday and my wife Larissa is gonna film it and so I'm excited about.

Katie Degutis:

That'll be really cute. I can't wait to see it. I am really excited — this Friday I am, well, weather pending, I am going on a little hot air balloon ride. So I am very, very excited to go see that. Right now, it looks like there might be 20 mile per hour winds, so we'll see. I don't know exactly how far we're gonna get. But yeah, I can't, can't wait. Looking forward to that.

Christy McFerren:

Katie will be landing in Kansas. <laugh> For me, my good mood is I found out that we get to adopt my son on my birthday. Here recently learned that, and that's April 4th. So I'm flying sky high to be able to give my birthday away and welcome this little dude permanently into our family.

Thomas Demiranda:

Amazing.

Christy McFerren:

Can't beat that dude.

Jenn Cassidy:

Aww, that's awesome.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah. Alright Jenn, thanks for joining us. Cheers everybody.

Thomas Demiranda:

Thanks Jenn. Bye.

Christy McFerren:

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