Quiet On Set

In this episode, the Good Mood Marketing trio sits down with Tony Sousa, VP of Operations at RPM Living. Tony walks us through his journey starting as a leasing consultant in the multifamily industry, and his experience in both operations and marketing. He even shares a bit of his acting past and social media expertise with the crew! Learn more about Tony’s journey by listening to our latest episode.

Tony Sousa
Tony Sousa is Vice President of Operations at RPM Living. Tony began his career by working as a leasing consultant, building himself up to his current role. His true-grit approach to learning about multiple sides of the industry and his entrepreneurial mindset have given him the success, knowledge, and tenacity he shares with our audience today. 

Transcript

Thomas Demiranda:

Well, welcome back to Good Mood Marketing. As always, this is Thomas, and I'm here with Christy and Katie. Today we'll be talking about marketing and operations and how they work hand in hand. And I'm really excited because we have a special guest. This person's well-known and loved by the apartment real estate community. I see him on LinkedIn all the time. Very excited to listen, to hear what he has to say, and so we're very honored that we have Tony Sousa, the VP of Operations at RPM Living, here today. Tony, welcome.

Katie Degutis:

Woohoo, welcome Tony.

Tony Sousa:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah, we're really excited for you to be here. When we came up with our list, you were one of the first persons I thought of and I told Katie, I told Christy, hey — if we could get Tony, if we can get him, you know, to fit within his schedule, we would love to have him on. And so we're glad that you're here. And so, really, we want to learn more about you, and kind of your current role at RPM Living, but also how you got started because I looked at your LinkedIn, your resume, and it really, there's just a progression that it seemed like you just really worked hard to be where you're at today. And so I think that's, like, both one, inspiring, but two, just to see that journey too. And I know that that kind of reflects how you communicate to your audience on LinkedIn.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the intro. Yeah. I'm the VP of Operations here in San Antonio. So I oversee all operations here in San Antonio, Texas for RPM Living. Feel very, very lucky and fortunate to be a part of a great organization that I am with today. So, but yes, I have been, so I've been in two different states, very different states, California and Texas. And I did start in this business as a leasing consultant. So I did get — and the story goes — I haven't made this a secret. My first ever leasing consultant interview, they forgot about it and the office was closed <laugh>. And I showed up in my oversized suit and and crooked tie, and I knocked on the door and they were out to lunch or a team event <laugh>.

Tony Sousa:

And they forgot about my interview. So, so that's how I got started. A glamorous start for sure. But I'll tell you in that moment, and I've shared this story before, but in that moment, it actually just, I remember going back home. I was not married at the time. I had like two roommates, like sharing a bedroom with another actor guy. And I was like, you know what, a) that's rude, but b) they're really missing out on somebody special <laugh>. And I think my roommates felt bad for me, and they're like, yeah, bro <laugh>. But you know, I ultimately ended up going back for another interview for that same company. I was willing to kind of take a high road. In that moment I was pretty not happy as you can imagine, or felt very sort of dejected, and probably a bit embarrassed.

Tony Sousa:

But I came back, and frankly I heard later, like, they were kind of on the fence with even hiring me because I didn't have direct sales experience at the time. But ultimately I talked my way into it, which is a story of my life in some ways <laugh>. But I got the opportunity and really just through a combination of just head down, hard work, building relationships everywhere I went, every property I was a part of, I just tried to do the best job that I could and make the biggest impact that I could everywhere and with everything that I touched. And in a matter of three or four years, had an opportunity to manage, you know, my first property. And really the rest is history. I had an opportunity to kind of spend some time in the marketing departments, training departments.

Tony Sousa:

I was a regional for some time, obviously in a different capacity now. But yeah, I've done it all. So yeah. So a lot of what you see and hear from me is from experience, but also laced with a lot of empathy and understanding of each role and the challenges, really, of each role. The pressures on sales consultants to get leases, leases, leases, and never seems to end <laugh>. I remember that pressure. Assistant managers are caught in between trying to get delinquency, and update the website, and you know, take direction from their manager who's taking long lunches. I mean, you know, I've been in that role too. And of course, you know, as a manager you feel like you're never supported enough and pulled in too many directions, and your residents are always mad. And you know, so I can go on and on and provide, you know, a litany of different sort of fun examples. I won't bore the audience, but hopefully, you know enough of what I said has proven that I have been in all of those roles.

Katie Degutis:

Yeah. That first company kind of got you with one of those, "You always want what you can't have" situations there by not being open that day.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. I mean, it just worked out in that way. So, you know I'm grateful for where I'm at today.

Christy McFerren:

That's awesome. One thing that we're really serious about at Catalyst is the mission we're on to create and promote brands that foster community, but also add value to people's lives along the way. And one of those values is really just the opportunity for people to grow and evolve as leaders while they're working with us. Members of our team, and even just different members of our clients' teams. Leadership and growth is really one of the main focuses, it seems like, or one of the main appeals when people get into this industry. And just looking at you, and looking at your, you know, your trajectory, and like Thomas said in the beginning, kind of your LinkedIn voice that you've built, you're kind of a brand unto yourself.

Christy McFerren:

And I think even you recently did a podcast over with Sprout, and they talked about kind of your personal brand. And in this generation, there's so many people that are really like, you know, it's the selfie generation, it's the TikTok generation, it's the people looking to become something by raising their voice. And so when you were talking about your career and the way that you got where you're at, you used a few phrases and I wrote 'em down. You said, "I was willing to take the high road" when you were kind of left hanging. You also came home and had a sense of self-worth if they missed out. And then I noted that you also talked about hard work and building relationships, and so you clearly have some of those old-fashioned values that drive people forward. But among those, or is that a summary of the advice you would give to people?

Christy McFerren:

Because it's so much more than picking up a phone and flipping it to selfie mode to get where you're at today. And I'd love to hear, like, your hot takes on, like what it really takes to rise up and to have substance and be authentic in that.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. No, great questions, Christy. Thanks for them. I actually just had a group of young brokers join me this morning, and we were talking about business, but it parlayed into sort of, "What are some advice that you can give me?" And one of the advice, first and foremost, and sorry if there's any children listening, like know your sh*t, right? Like, know your craft, know what you're doing, know the ins and outs of your business, whether it be in marketing or operations or whatever you happen to be doing. Spend the time, put in the work, put in the efforts, and know your business.

Tony Sousa:

Know your craft. Know what you're doing. Be a subject matter expert in that space. Don't fake that, because you can't, frankly. People will see right through that in time. So that's just some guidance, but that's guidance I provided them this morning. The second piece to it is, understand how to align both your reputation, personal brand, with your company's brand as well. And you're right, it's not it's not just turning the camera around to yourself and smiling or, or giving a cool look or whatever the case is, frankly. And I'll walk through, you know, your audience probably has some operations, I would imagine probably a lot of marketers are listening. I, my evolution online and through LinkedIn has, if some have been following me for the last three to five years, probably the last three years, two years in the midst of the pandemic, I feel I've really sort of crystallized my voice of who I am and what my message is. But, but I'll tell you, early on, there was a lot of photo shoots with me and nice hair, if you recall, and some quotes <laugh>. And what I've, what I've sensed just in engagement and feedback and just, I think just observation, is that gets really old and that gets really tired pretty quickly. I think people, like, we get it, Tony, you're optimistic. You have a nice smile, you have nice hair, you like, you know, nice peacoats, right? <Laugh>.

Christy McFerren:

It is a nice peacoat.

Katie Degutis:

So tiring!

Tony Sousa:

But like, tell us what's in here and tell us what's in here. Right? That's what we want to know. And frankly, that's where we're having trouble. Right? We're having trouble in here, and we're having trouble figuring it out. And so if you've seen, you know, and I think probably some of the marketers that have been following me for some time have seen the evolution of the content have been because I think as a person, as a content creator, I've been hyper-cognizant of what people are interested in engaging with and what they want to hear and what they want to know. And I also know that because they're in my inbox, right? They're talking to me about the things that have inspired them and the things they wanna know more about.

Tony Sousa:

And to the question you just, you know, asked earlier that this is a hot question of, "How'd you go from here to here?" And so many of us have, have done this in our careers, and some of us haven't. And if I could provide any insights in my story, I'm always happy to do that. But from a content standpoint, it's really evolved. And I've realized, and you've maybe even seen less JPEGs or photos in some of my posts, it's been more it's been more of my writing and focusing on the words and the tone and the sentiment of what I'm saying, because I don't want people to be distracted by a peacoat, or a hat, or hair. I want people to connect with me, by the words that that I'm saying and thinking and expressing.

Tony Sousa:

And those are stemmed from thoughts, experiences, feelings, emotions. And I'm not purposely, frankly, doing it for everyone else. A lot of that is frankly, my own journal to myself. And that's what a lot of people don't realize, I think, on that space. And what I do is frankly, just sort of a documented journal for me to look back on, to really kind of watch and see my growth professionally and personally as a person. But I am hyper aware of interactions and engagement levels, and what seems to trigger more and less. And so I am aware of those things. I don't spend a lot of time on the platform. And what the, contrary to what people may think, I usually am sort of a morning content creator poster.

Tony Sousa:

Some of that stuff will come from inspirational thoughts and ideas from previous days. And I have a busy day job. And so in the day job, it's important I get paid for that, to stay focused on that job throughout the day. Obviously there's some interactions that come from that in different ways, but I'm very mindful of making sure I put in a good day's work and what I'm doing every day. That's, that's kind of a side thing, a side hustle. I don't get paid for any of that. So I don't allocate a ton of time during my day job on that. And then I'll probably check in in the evening time just to kind of see, you know, where it's at, and hopefully I didn't offend anybody or anything like that to try to PR that, you know, or walk that backwards or something like that.

Tony Sousa:

But a lot of, a lot of the things I say, I'm willing to say them. I'm willing to take some chance. I'm willing to be vulnerable more than most. And I think that is what has really drawn an audience to some of what I have to say is because I do say it with conviction and passion and belief. And it's all stemmed from, you know, almost two decades of experience. And also just a lot of personal growth and experience in that way. So, great question. Sorry for the long-winded answer.

Christy McFerren:

No, it's good. It sounds to me like really it's about weaving your, a mix of your values and some vulnerability and authenticity in and, you know, without, it doesn't sound like you really set out to grow a brand. You just set out to know yourself and to be known.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. And a lot of people ask me about that these days, right? Like, well, how do I do what you've done? And I think there's some technicalities. You guys are, you know, you guys are all seasoned marketers. You guys could probably get some viral content out there, you guys all very creative. You know what hits, you know what works. You're right. I didn't — and I don't today — pursue viral tech content. Do I know what people are yearning for and wanting to listen and wanting to engage with? I do. Do I cater some message to the audience of what they're trying to hear? Not necessarily. And a lot of it is just really stuff that I'm processing and working through and a lot of experiences that I've had.

Tony Sousa:

So you know, to the point that, that I'm trying to make is you can't, you may be able to you may be able to sort of emulate, but I wouldn't replicate anybody else's you know, tone or messaging or brand even. Everyone is designed so uniquely different, with so many given talents and thoughts and ideas and experiences. And you really have to be willing to trust your own experiences and person of who you are and put that out there. And if it gets no engagement, that's okay. Be consistent. I think a lot of people get really nervous on that space, especially cause it's professional, right? It's like, I don't wanna put too much out there because I'm gonna be judged. And I understand that. But at some point if you want to participate in the conversation or you want to provide value or just your thoughts, just do it.

Tony Sousa:

You know, in your head, expect nothing. And when you get, when you get a few, or you get some engagement, or you get some comments, or you get people in the inbox, then cool, that's a win. But if you don't, don't expect it. Right? Do it for you. And the advice I gave this morning was, you know, again, pardon children, please turn the channel or put put this on mute for a minute. But frankly, just give less f*cks. And that's, and that's probably the best advice. That's the advice I gave this morning. And keep in mind I didn't say, "Give zero F's," right? Like give less. Cause we all give some, and I think it's okay to give some and to care about things that you need to care about, but you need to just, you know, have perspective to understand that a lot of stuff that we care about throughout our life and throughout our day really doesn't mean a lot and we're giving way too much stock and value into those things.

Christy McFerren:

Thank you. That's such great advice.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah, that's great. I was listening and you mentioned earlier, when you were applying for that leasing consultant job, you mentioned that you were had some friends, and I think maybe I saw this on your LinkedIn, that you also were doing some acting or attempting to, and had that in your career path. But all of the things that you've mentioned, sales and things like that, is all kind of like, "gritty" type of jobs. And so my question is like, cause I think there's maybe some relation between you and I in that, kind of like, sales background. Where did that kind of, I guess desire or even discipline to want to kind of just be motivated to go after it — like you've mentioned, you know, "You just gotta get after it" — where'd that come from? Was that like from your parents, from your background? Was it just like life, in itself? Because when I see your posts, a lot of the times I think people really interact with it because you mention your early career, and then people see that and they're like, "Wow, maybe I can get there too." You know, they see that and they resonate with it, and I think that's why, you know, your voice is heard and people are always kind of replying to you.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. You know, I think your question, you know, is like, you know, where's that come from? You know, I have a feisty Italian mom, <laugh> that probably thinks I could <laugh>, you know, run for president or do anything. She's probably maybe got me into different opportunities or different gigs that maybe I wasn't even ready for, but like, hey Ma, you know, Ma believes it. So you know, I love her dearly and she's, she's in California, and so I do think some of that zest for life and ambition and, just, just like a relentless optimism is probably probably the way I would describe it. And, you know, did I set out to start in this career to be in this particular role that I am today? Did I set out on this LinkedIn platform to be where I am today?

Tony Sousa:

No and no. I just sort of put one foot in front of the next and put in a good day's work, and put my best effort in every project and every relationship that I have. I think what a lot of people don't realize, and I think a lot of us do this as well, but, you know, I have a lot of side conversations with people, you know, on the weekends, or in the evenings, just probably a combination of, like, mutually inspiring each other, right? And encouraging one another. And I think that's important to have those people in your life as well. And if you don't, sometimes you find yourself probably talking to employees, or trying to work through things, and you gotta be careful there, right? Like, you know, you gotta have people in your life that can challenge you, but also that you could vent to and kind of bounce some things off of, you know, that all is very helpful.

Tony Sousa:

But I think everybody's wired a little bit differently. And I've also had to recognize not everybody is ambitious as the next guy. And some people are very content with doing their job. And frankly, that lesson was taught to me, my father's very much a blue collar truck driver, bus driver. You know, contrary to maybe what some people may have imagined, maybe what my dad is. But, you know, he, I remember as a young man in college thinking like, why would you ever like, wanna drive a truck? Right? And this is like a young college kid, right? Who probably sounds super arrogant, but you know, my father being from Portugal, he was born in Portugal, very blue collar, you know, his family did a lot of different jobs to make ends meet.

Tony Sousa:

And now they're doing well for themselves. They bought real estate in California, right? You know, when it was dirt cheap and now here we are. Right? But he said something, he said something to me when I was younger and probably this snooty college kid that thought I knew everything in life and like, who would wanna be a truck driver? He's, you know, he just made the very simple point that, you know, how do you think groceries get to your store, right? How do you think gas gets to your gas station? These are important jobs and we know this, you know, when gas was surging or roads are closed down, like, all of us, you know, sort of, you know, bougie, snarky folks are like, "Where's my stuff?" Right? <Laugh> But, you know, what we don't realize is, you know, it takes a lot of, you know, hard work and some of the dirty jobs, and sometimes some of the thankless jobs to get some of the, you know, basic stuff, you know, from A to B.

Tony Sousa:

And so for me, I think you could see, you know, some of these conversations do strike an emotion to me because you know, those are, those are my roots. Those are my family. That's a lot of what I come from. And I didn't start in this position. I didn't start in any really glamorous position out of college. I ultimately made $13 an hour after going to a school that cost me way more than probably should have. But nonetheless, you know, that's where I started. And I was willing to sort of put in the work to get to where I'm at today. And frankly, you know, I'm very grateful that I have that experience because, you know, in my day job and interacting and building rapport with maintenance or anyone else, they pretty quickly realize, oh, wow.

Tony Sousa:

Like, like he relates to me. And, frankly, he's done some of these jobs, I could tell, you know, and it's very helpful. So when the staffing crisis, this employee crisis was happening over the last, you know, couple of years you know, me personally, I understood it on the surface because I know why it happened. Most companies did not take care of their employees in the pandemic. They were were more focused about themselves and corporate employees staying home and safe than being overly concerned about those in the field and their needs and their family's needs. And so what happened is, a year later, when things simmer down from a virus standpoint, those employees they may have forgiven, but they did not forget <laugh>. And they were like, you know what? You know, I'll forgive you because that's the right thing to do, but I didn't forget, and I'm gonna start looking. And I'm gonna try to find a place that you know, I could find a better balance emotionally, work-life balance...

Tony Sousa:

And it's not personal, but you know what, I think it's my time to explore the job market. And so that was all happening at the same time. I've never really heard too much commentary about that. That's my own hypotheses and frankly, I think it's actually pretty d*mn accurate because of offline conversations I've had with a lot of people about their experience. But I took the other road in the pandemic because I just felt it was the right road to take, not because I'm better than anybody, but I was, you know, within 30 days of the pandemic, I asked my teams to, you know, put me on a shift of cleaning doorknobs, you know, at the time, right? I was like, listen, you know, my guidance is, corporate team, you stay home and stay safe and not be a spreader.

Tony Sousa:

I was like, okay, I kind of get it, but I have my teams out here on the front lines, like exposed to potential viruses and other things that are happening. Like, why do I get to stay home? Right? Like, and so for me, I was like, put me on that list, put me on the rotation. I'll take Tuesdays at four to get the stairwell, you know? And for me at the time, actually, I was kind of working through some virus fears myself, and some people know this story. And listen, I had some doubts. I'm like, "Why did I sign up to do this?" Right? Like, I don't, I don't wanna put myself in harm's way. I don't know what's going on in the world. I don't know what this virus is. Obviously looking back on it now, it was, you know, I'm very proud of that decision that I made back then.

Tony Sousa:

But I didn't, I didn't have the same experience that many did. My teams weren't in complete disarray, or all wanting to leave because I think doing things like that, I think meant the world to them. Yeah. So while I knew it was happening in the country and this was all happening, I also knew why but I also didn't have the same experience. My teams were pretty locked in, and frankly, they actually, I think, were more locked in than they were not because I took that opportunity in the face of adversity to jump in the foxhole with them versus shout commands from the command center in a safe place.

Katie Degutis:

Yeah. Definitely. It definitely, it makes such a difference, I think, to them to be able to see, like, you're right here next to us, you're doing this with us, and it just instills that loyalty from the team.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah.

Katie Degutis:

And the trust that they can come to you with a lot of things like that. And myself being in operations, kind of wanted to follow that with, how do you, not knowing what's gonna happen on any given day, I think that especially in operations, you maybe have a start mentally and then you walk in the door and it's like, well, that's not gonna go as planned, and everything goes out the window. How do you kind of keep the optimism and keep your team engaged and efficient, and kind of re-shift them to do what's needed?

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. It's a good question. I think everybody in operations kind of wrestles with this challenge. I think I answer every single day, I'm grateful for the day, I'm grateful for the people that I work with and work for the organization. But I've convinced myself, whether true or not, that there's no challenge that I can't figure out. Or there's not somebody that I can't reach out to within the organization or within my network that can't help me figure this out. And so over almost 20 years of being in this business, you know, that network is deep and long. And then also I'm fortunate here at RPM that there's just, a massive amount of resources and people and armies of people that are ready and willing to answer a question on Teams or whatever the case is.

Tony Sousa:

So not only do I bring my own resolve, I think, every day, to say, I'd like to see if you could, if you can get one past me. But if you do, which you may, I have an army of resources that I can reach out to, both in my own personal network and also within the company I work at. So that's what gives me the confidence to enter every day and every situation to believe that we can resolve this. And frankly, more often than not, I've been proven right in my own mind. And so that, that just continues to build confidence in myself to say, "You know what? You might be right." SoI bring that attitude every day. But there is some, you know, there is stuff that arises all the time, Katie, that, of course, that like, wow, that's a new one, <laugh> let's but let's, let's figure this out because that's what we get paid to do and let's have some fun.

Tony Sousa:

But frankly, I think the new ones are the situations that keep us enjoying our day jobs sometimes, frankly, on operations side, right? It's like, oh, wow, that's a new one. But, with every new one kind of builds more and more experience on itself. So I invite new ones. I do like that sort of brain challenge of, I've never experienced that before. And there was one recently, a situation where they dropped off 40 more washers than we needed, and it's like, wow, what do we do with these? And they're in an apartment and they're moving in this afternoon. Okay uh...let's, let's talk through this, right? Is there an appliance liquidator that we can call that would pick up 40 washers, like, in an hour?

Christy McFerren:

I was gonna say, could you sell them for a profit?

Tony Sousa:

<Laugh> Right? But I also think that, that, like, I'm wired very entrepreneurially, and so, you know, I'm always, I'm always willing to like, think about things that, you know, that maybe, you know, others maybe wouldn't, or I'm willing to kind of go to no man's land <laugh> with the ideas to figure out how to find a resolution.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah.

Christy McFerren:

Well, and it's in those moments where you have to get creative, that teamwork really forms. Like, everyone sort of puts their job description aside and is like, well, we just have a problem to solve together, and we're all on the same page now.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. And sometimes, sometimes, listen, Tony will know, right? Tony will know. I'm like, guys, listen, I have no idea. <Laugh>, but, but us collectively, we can figure this out. So what about this? What about that? What about this? And I think what I've realized in myself as well, and this is probably the entrepreneur in me, is I'm a wellspring of ideas. So I'm just, what I'm gifted with, if anything, is, if you want to figure out how to resolve an issue, or sell a product, or something like that, I can give you probably five ideas in five minutes. And it's just, maybe it's sort of my old acting days and improv days where my mind can work very quickly in that way, and I can kind of connect dots. Some of those five ideas in those five minutes may be completely outlandish and the worst idea in the world. But I'll guarantee you, <laugh>, I'll give you five ideas in five minutes.

Thomas Demiranda:

<Laugh>. That's, that's awesome. Well, continuing on the operations vein, and talking about that since we are a marketing agency, I'd love to hear kind of your thoughts about how a good marketing agency and a good operations team works together, and where have you seen it work really well in instances and where, you know, it may fall off where it doesn't work well?

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. So I'm fortunate that in this business, and I think I mentioned it a little bit earlier, I spent two or three years in the marketing department specifically at Sequoia Equities in California. Worked with the wonderful Lisa Trapp, who's the COO at CWS. She was the marketing director at the time. So, and when I was a marketing manager, it was also a social media manager. So all of this new social media stuff was all happening all at the same time. So I am fortunate now being in operations side that I spent a few years on the dark side. I'm not sure which side is the dark side, operations or marketing, but nonetheless, I was on the other side of things. And so to answer your question, like, how do they work in harmony, right?

Tony Sousa:

How do they work well together? I think, I think much of it has to do with — and I just had this conversation with a friend of mine, you know, on my lunch before this call — is I think a mutual understanding of each other and what each other does, right? Of what each department does. Frankly, operations sometimes has no idea what marketing does other than spend money <laugh>, right? And it's either because they haven't taken the time to really understand what marketing does. They've been in structures or corporate structures to where they haven't had to be challenged to figure that out. Oftentimes, you know, in property management, if you work in small shops, you're a jack of all trades, so you have to figure out marketing and operations and recruiting and hiring and all this other stuff.

Tony Sousa:

Sometimes in bigger shops, you have all these departments that you can kind of punt to or kick to. And so, and I think sometimes that probably hurts us operators that, that we don't have experience with that. I think there's a luxury to it, and I think everybody likes it, but to some extent you don't really learn the nitty gritty of certain departments and how to, how it works and how it comes together. On the flip, I also don't think marketers, frankly, have a great understanding of operations. I think they, I don't know what they think, frankly, <laugh> You know, I think they just think they're salty all the time and always, you know, dealing with, with issues and don't really even understand me. You don't understand me, mom! <Laugh> And so and so.

Tony Sousa:

But I think marketers are cut differently. I think they're often, not always, because marketing has become very analytical and very business minded, but there's also a creative element to marketing as well. And it depends on the marketing that you're doing. But so I think those two worlds, understanding each other's world a little bit more, will help organizations work better together. Because frankly, I think there's roles for operations to probably step up their marketing game, and they could provide some scrubs and some feedback and some sort of hyper-local information for marketers to better understand, you know, their product and their service and how to maybe best market it. For you guys, you know, a boutique agency, you're probably, you know, running properties or products, you know, throughout the country. There's no way for you to have boots on the ground in some of these small towns or small markets.

Tony Sousa:

So you really probably rely very heavily on operations teams and others to give you that feedback in a timely fashion. So that's where I often see sort of this push and pull, and I can see in your guys' body language that that's probably your life of trying to get this information so that you could be a better marketer. And if they only understood if you provide this information consistently, this relationship probably would be much better and more successful. And then on the other side, I think, you know, operations just really frankly is, I think it's an education thing. They just don't really understand even what marketing is. And I think even when you talk about branding, God forbid, like, that sounds like a really scary word. All ll that frankly is, and I've tried to say this on so many podcasts cause I get asked all the time about personal branding, it's frankly just your reputation, right?

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah.

Tony Sousa:

And what people think and feel about you. It, I mean, you could probably overly complicate it in a textbook, but, but that's really at the end of the day, what it is about a property, about a person. It s really just what others may think or perceive about you based on what they either see, know, or your reputation. And I've just decided, you know, to take more control of that. But yeah, so that's my long-winded answer. I think probably understanding each other's worlds a little bit better, this is probably marital advice as well, right? <Laugh>, like be more empathetic with your spouse and understand their struggles and they'll understand yours and you'll have a, you know, you'll have a healthy relationship.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah. I think it's good advice in pretty much any relationship context, whether it's colleagues or marriages or sons and daughters or, you know, whatever have you, you know, taking a minute to have some empathy for the other's, you know, position, and the pain points they feel and the challenges they're facing and what stresses them out. Which kind of leads me to, you are an upbeat sort of a fellow, and a lot of your posts are always kind of in a good mood. And being in an operations role, I know there's a lot that, you know, those new things that come at you. How do you maintain that positivity and optimism? Is it just a natural part of your DNA or do you consciously work for that some days? And if you do kind of have more of that conscious side, what is it that you do to trigger that good mood or to trigger that optimism when it would be more natural to just be like, "Oh, f*ck."

Tony Sousa:

It's a, it's a good question. Because I'll tell you on the operations side, probably on the marketing side too, but Katie could relate. I mean, every single day, I think the adversity of the day is attempting to rob you of your joy, probably, or of your optimism.

Katie Degutis:

I can't speak to that.

Christy McFerren:

I asked this question on Katie's behalf <laugh>.

Tony Sousa:

And Katie's sunshine and puppies all the time, right?

Christy McFerren:

Yes, she is. It's a hundred percent. She does — she has puppies all the time.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. and Katie, you can probably speak to this. I'd be curious to hear your answer as well. I do think it's a, it is to some extent a survival mechanism of sorts to, to always look at the glass half full because you have to. And when you stop, or you, you focus your energy or your thoughts on how this won't work or those "oh sh*t" moments, or like, then the stress levels, the anxiety, I mean, you start sweating. You, I mean, I, there's been a few times like really early in my career that I would run into the hallway, call my wife, like, I have to work all weekend because, you know, just hit the fan or whatever the case is.

Tony Sousa:

Over the years, I've, I've realized like, you know, things are important, things matter, but the sky isn't falling at the same time, right? So I think, you know, having this balanced perspective that things will be okay, and frankly, because most things have always been okay, and I guess the quote is, you know, "Things are okay until they're not okay." But, for the most part, things are usually okay in the end. And, I've always been amazed and I tell my kids this, I tell my wife this, and this is recent me, I mean, just making these observations, that what a difference 24 hours makes, right? Good or bad. I mean, sometimes, sometimes this time yesterday maybe it was a total sh*t day. Now, today I get to talk to you guys, right?

Tony Sousa:

So, and you know, somebody recently, actually, I think it was Coach Prime, I'm a big fan of Coach Prime — Deion Sanders — was a big fan of him growing up. And you know, obviously he's an optimistic dude, and doing well for himself, and has a big following. But, you know, he said something recently that really also encouraged my heart and spirit. You know, I may have a bad moment, or a bad hour, or a bad decision, but I don't have a full bad day. And I think, I think I subscribe to that. Because the day is long, right? What is it, 14, 15, 16 hours? I mean, minus the sleep. And so, you know, I think we all know, like these days can be like roller coasters, right? And sometimes it just rains on you and sometimes it's like, starts low and ends high, and then goes back to low, right?

Tony Sousa:

It's just, you know, they talk about the journey of life, the journey of a day. I think playing the long game of a day or a long game of life, right? Is just to know that like this rollercoaster will be a part of it. And if you allow the lows to steal your highs, you know, then the lows have won. And I just told my daughter this, who has a cavity, and you know, she didn't want to go to the dentist and she was worried about it the night before. And I've had to train my mind on my own anxieties or fears about, you know, things maybe in the day ahead. Don't let, you know, the fears of tonight, you know, steal the joy of, and the opportunities of, tonight, right?

Tony Sousa:

Like, like, don't worry about tomorrow. Wait for tomorrow to worry.

Christy McFerren:

Yeah.

Tony Sousa:

You know, and that's a discipline of the mind, you know, it really is. You have to stay present.

Christy McFerren:

I like what you're saying with the discipline of the mind, because one of the things that we've talked about with our team, and may be helpful for your teams, is we've gone through kind of a journey of discovering what imposter syndrome really is and ways to defeat that. And one critical component of that is to look at your calendar and plan your wins to like, truly be intentional about at least a few things, two or three things in your week, that you're gonna win. And you know it cause you're good at it. And let that be the focus of your week and let the rest of it be what it is.

Christy McFerren:

But, you know, there's a phrase, being the captain of your own soul and steering to the crest and steering out of the trough and staying up high where you can see it from the right perspective, I think is so important. So I love what you're saying.

Tony Sousa:

Yeah. I've recently realized this imposter syndrome is a real thing. I never knew, I've never known it, like, had a name to it. I think we all probably have felt it a time or two in different roles and you know, if you look at my resume, yes. Every really change or role that I've been in, it's been a different title or a new role or something I haven't been in before. And I try to encourage others that, that may be in, that are in roles that they've never been in before or feel a little intimidated by.

Tony Sousa:

That there's a reason that they selected you for this role. You have to remember that. And they believed in you. And I posted something just the other day, you know, like the reason people believe in you is because you believe in you. And if you don't, they won't. And so, and if you don't, who will, right? So, you know, that's helpful to understand and, and listen, at the end of the day, listen, maybe you are in a job over your head, you know? Hiring managers are not always right. And maybe you do get in over your head, and what's so wrong with that? Great job on the interview process. Maybe you have to take a step back, right? Maybe you have to take a lateral move. Like, put things in perspective. It's not the end of the world. Really, it's not. And you could probably tell I'm raising, you know, a 10 and a 7 year old, right? Like, that's not the end of the world! <Laugh> You know, to them it is. But even as adults, we sort of get caught up in what other people are going to, you know, think of us and, what are they gonna think if we take a step down? Like to my point earlier, like, give less F's, please. Like, who cares what they think?

Katie Degutis:

Right. And no one else knows what they're doing either.

Thomas Demiranda:

Yeah. <Laugh>

Tony Sousa:

Oh, and this is a part of also this bigger conversation of, of really also why I wanted to have my own voice on social media or LinkedIn is because, you know, listen. I do at some point also want the world to know like, what I'm doing, and the skills and abilities that I bring to the table. It's not so much about that anymore today, but this was like my 10 years ago thought. I was like, how would anyone know? And this was before I was trying to get to Texas. I was like, how would anyone know that I'm amazing? Even though I don't know if I was. But like, how would anyone know that I'm really good at what I do? Right? And I really wrestled with this. I was like, nobody would know other than my supervisor.

Tony Sousa:

And if they, and if you think about this, your supervisor, if you're amazing, they don't want everyone to know, right? They don't want other employers to know. And maybe the supervisor's amazing. And they take care of you and you know, both financially and growth and all that sort of stuff. And you're super happy and you don't really care if anyone else knows. And that's cool too. But how do you, how do you get the word out? And right now, the traditional clunky process is send them a paper resume, right? Or a digital resume. And then you have 45 minutes to prove yourself in an audition that you are amazing. And you know what, if I had a bad day, or I don't have time, or I can't hear your zoom very well, I don't think it's the right fit.

Tony Sousa:

You know, I mean that's the current hiring process, right? So I thought 10 years ago, I was like, well, you know what, like I'll just have like a real life journal resume of things that I'm doing and the ups and the downs. I was willing to add the downs. And I think, I think that's probably why today I think some are drawn to what I'm, my content that I put out there because I'm willing to talk about the lousy days. And you know, and I think that just rings authentic to them.

Thomas Demiranda:

Definitely does. And there's so much wisdom and just optimism with everything that you shared today. We're like really super thankful, Tony, that you could join us. Really, it's been one of my favorite episodes, and it was just so free flowing. Well, there's a tradition here at, at the end of every episode, that we just ask, "What has you in a good mood today?" So I'll ask you, what has you in a good mood today?

Tony Sousa:

Well, aside from the fact that I'm hanging out with the three of you guys — that has helped me put myself in a good mood — I'll give you something fun. I actually, being from California, I had an in-N-Out burger for lunch, so it's always nice when I could sneak out and in Texas get an in-N-Out burger. And so that's what has me in a good mood. It was delicious. And again, being able to hang out with you guys today has also been a cherry on top.

Thomas Demiranda:

Awesome. Awesome. I'll go. And my wife and I actually tomorrow are going to a concert. Death Cab for Cutie, if anybody knows. And so that'll be fun. It'll be, I think at the Moody Center, which is a great venue. So excited for that. Christy?

Christy McFerren:

Today I have my first swim lesson with Leo. He's our four month old baby, and we're taking him to Emler to get in the pool and learn to hold his breath. I'm excited to see him do that. He loves the water.

Katie Degutis:

Can't wait to see the pictures and videos that are gonna come outta that. Mine is probably, we have the monthly birthday celebration just after this and they're having tiny bundt cakes, so I, not counting down or anything, but in about 12 minutes. And there aren't a lot of people in the office, so might be able to snag a second one <laugh>. I'm pretty pumped about it.

Thomas Demiranda:

Well, awesome. Well, thanks Tony, again. We appreciate your time. It won't be the last time. And thanks everyone for listening. Cheers everybody.

Katie Degutis:

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