"Guarded Hearts: The Desire for Closeness and Independence"

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Transcript

Show Opening & Session Frame

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Welcome to Eyewitness to Therapy, the one of a kind podcast that focuses on a real life therapy situation. I'm your host, Court Curtis, psychologist and therapist, passionate about bringing you into an immersive experience of self-awareness through therapy. In each episode, we dive deep into the struggles our guest faces and guide them on a journey of self-discovery and resolution. As your dedicated therapist, my purpose is to create a safe space where you can openly share and address your issues. We'll explore the power of the present moment in resolving your concerns, knowing that the past is completely over and the future is never yet. The key to healing lies in awareness, in being witness to your consciousness. And that's precisely what we'll uncover together in every episode of Eyewitness to Therapy. So join us as we navigate the transformative power of therapy and self-awareness. Welcome to another episode of Eyewitness to Therapy. Every individual that I interview in this podcast has volunteered to participate in a one-time therapy session. And so I'm happy to welcome a new guest today. This is the first time we have ever met, so I know virtually nothing about this person other than from a very brief questionnaire that they filled out prior to this meeting. Every guest's identity is anonymous. All therapy is centered around the guest's issues and goals. Whatever they bring forth into the session becomes the focus of our conversation. And my goal is to be helpful in the best way I can. Gestalt therapy is all about living in the moment, and that is exactly where we start each session. I ask my guest to take a moment and allow a word or short phrase to bubble up in consciousness that simply names their here and now experience. And then I have them expound on that word what that word says of them, about them, or about anything. And then I ask that they declare an intention for the session. An intention can be anything, such as what they hope to gain from the session or want help with. Declaring an intention from the outset helps frame our conversation and also serves to create a purpose and goal for our session. And then lastly, we end each session the way we begin with just a word that names their here and now experience as we come to the close of our conversation, as well as a few words about how they feel about our session. Is there a takeaway? An insight? That they gained from a meeting together? That's the question. So come along with us as we step into this journey of exploration. Where the conversation goes, nobody knows. But that's also the excitement of therapy. A step into the unknown of possibilities. So without further ado, let's welcome our new guest. Okay. Welcome to our meeting today. Thank you for your willingness to be interviewed here. So, what's the opportunity here today? The opportunity here is to create a space for you to bring forth anything you would like to bring forth in terms of anything in your life that you might be dealing with or struggling with or wanting to focus on. And so my job is to be as helpful to you as I can regarding whatever you bring forth. Okay. The suggested way that we start each meeting is to take just a moment to turn your attention inward and reflect on your inner state as we're sitting here right now. Go ahead and allow one word or short phrase to name something that you're experiencing in this present moment as we're sitting here. See what word bubbles up for you.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Probably just fine.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Fine. All right, fine. Okay, okay, gotcha. Okay. Another invitation here is to look and see is there anything you'd like to feel by the end of our meeting today? If you could feel anything.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Fulfilled with some knowledge or understanding.

Pattern: Leaving Good Relationships

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Fulfilled with some knowledge or understanding. Okay. Regarding whatever you desire to bring forth in our meeting here. So feel free to jump in anywhere or to introduce whatever it is you would like to bring forth and we can uh go from there.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

So I figured I started thinking to figure out what would be really great for this meeting for me. And one of the things, me saying that I'm fine, right? That's half the problem. I'm always fine. So if I have people in my life, I'm fine. If I don't have people in my life, I'm fine. It can be a friend that I've had forever. If it's not working for me, it's fine. But to the point that I'm ready to leave it. And I've left plenty of good relationships just because it's time, that's good enough. My biggest issue is caring to hold on to relationships or getting closer.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I see. Okay. So this is what I'm hearing so far. Okay. So if somebody asks you how you're doing, your response will be just fine. I'm just fine.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

No, it's more that I feel very content with myself and life, but my relationships suffer because I don't fight for relationships. My biggest issue is closeness in relationships.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

If you don't get close, closeness and you don't fight in your relationships. Okay, so that's what you're aware of in yourself. I'm sorry, I'm very happy. So there's some sense of closeness. Would you like to share your most recent relationship where this situation showed up for you? What happened in your most recent relationship that uh you felt a lack of closeness?

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yes, it's seemingly good to the people around me, whether it's best friends, friendships, partners, but I'm just not attached.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Attached to the person that you're in the relationship with? Yeah. I'm interested about that. When you go back to the last relationship, when did that occur and who was that with? And what happened in that relationship, and how did it end?

SPEAKER_03 6:39

I've had very good relationships with partners who want to be there for me and do a lot of things for me. Generally, it ends because I'm ready for it to end.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Oh, sorry to interrupt you. Go back to the last relationship and when it ended and how you ended it, if you could recollect what you communicated to end this relationship.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Okay. So let's say last relationship. I'm currently in a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Well, you currently are in a relationship.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Oh, okay. All right. Good long relationships. Just at a certain time, like I've had one time when somebody spoke about marriage. It was time for me to go.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

I have a time, amount of time that I'm willing to give a person.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

That you're willing to give a person for what? To be in my life, to be my partner. Oh, you mean you've got a you mean you've got a six time?

SPEAKER_03 7:35

It's not concrete, but it's pretty close.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Am I hearing you have certain conditions?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

No, it's just time that I'm it can be a fine relationship. It's just gotten old for me or something.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

So would you call your current relationship that you're in fine? No, it's great.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

It's very relationships have been great. Okay. But I'm fine whether I have them in my life or not. That's that's the problem, that fight for people.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

The fight for people? I'm fine whether they come or they go. Is that what you're facing in yourself? Or to or that you want to feel or be fine whether they come or go?

SPEAKER_03 8:18

No, that's what I'm facing in myself, where other people fight for relationships, where other people say, Hey, let's make this work. I'm not really the person to do that. Okay. And I don't mean like a bad relationship. I'm not making it work.

Space, Obligation, And Autonomy

SPEAKER_01 8:32

But you're talking about relationships abstractly.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Also, because it would be very identifying.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

I see. Okay. But you're in a relationship right now.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

You would call a love relationship.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Absolutely. I have great relationships and we love each other so much. So nobody ever understands. Okay when I'm like, yeah, I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

But okay, but are you done in this relationship? I've tried, yes. Do you want to be done in this relationship? But what I'm asking you to do is look at the reac because you're saying you're in a relationship and you're looking at the reality of the relationship. I gather that would you call this a love relationship?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah, okay. How long have you been in it? Five years. Oh, five years. Oh, okay. Overall, you feel good about this relationship and in the relationship?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

So you haven't thought about I want to leave this relationship.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

I have plenty of times. Oh, but you're still in it. This is reminiscent. All my relationships last a number of years, and they're absolutely great. And we feel greatness, and I'm just happy to yeah, have my time back, have time to myself, have do my own things. You mean while being in the relationship? No, I need the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Okay. So thinking that you want to end this relationship because of what you just said, I want to be my own person again.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

I end relationships all the time. So this relationship, yes, I've tried to end it. And that person, no, you're not gonna push me off. And I'm like, okay, it's going fine. I have no reason to try to break up relationships.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

That's what I'm confused about.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

So am I. That's exactly why I'm doctor.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Okay, but this is what I'm hearing. You've been in this relationship for five years, and that you feel good being in it. Yep. And so I guess I'm hearing you say that you want to end it or would like to end it. Yeah. But for whatever reason you want to end it. Maybe you just don't have an explanation. You just it sounds like it's happened, every relationship. Every single relationship that you that you've ended it, that you've decided to end the relationship.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

When it's good, and nobody understands an identity.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

And when it's good, you decide to be fine. How do you feel about that? That you want to end uh a relationship when it's good. I'm curious about that.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

I guess I'm curious about it too, but it's just time has passed, and I'm fine with living life with people and without people.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

I think it's too much to have. I don't see the reason to have somebody for that whole forever idea, doesn't exactly uh fall in my spirits.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Oh, okay. So that's not in your vision for your life to be in a relationship forever kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

I'm working on changing that now. I'm working. This has been a long time. I've looking back and saying, I don't regret breaking up relationships, but I recognize what I'm doing. I recognize I don't fall into the mainstream when it comes to this.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Isn't it a matter of just what you want? What do you what do you want? Maybe begin some sentences. It begins with the words in regard to relationships. Well, yeah, in regard to relationships, I want, fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

In regards to relationships, I want there's my love, respect. I want space sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I want space to do my own thing.

Family Programming: Keep To Yourself

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

In a way, too, the space to do that.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

No, it doesn't have to do with other relationships. Just I just oh sometimes I don't want somebody in my space in my home. I don't want to consider somebody. I don't wanna okay, I don't want to let people know where I am all the time. It feels invasive.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

So you feel obligated to do that in this relationship?

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Uh and generally in relationships, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

In this one, you feel obligated to. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Uh it's so hard to compare. I feel obligated within myself, probably. Yeah, I hear that.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

It's you feel obligated within yourself to you feel like you have to account. You don't want to constantly be in one another's space, you want some space to be in your own spaces. Yes, true, okay. Is that not available for you in this relationship? Well, let me ask you this because I want to I'm interested. Are you living with this person? If you live together, okay, and would you call yourself you're in an exclusive relationship? Yeah, exclusive, okay, and you describe the quality of this relationship as fine, right? Yeah, fine.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

So somehow am I hearing that you feel that you don't feel that you can take the space to do your own thing and still be in this relationship?

SPEAKER_03 13:44

I think this relationship could prosper because there is the obligation is inside my head, it's not in my partner.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

And okay, your partner's not expecting all these things from you, it's just in your own head. I can't okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

I can't pick up and go, and I can't do all these things, but as I push through it, okay, fine, apparently, so it's good.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Okay, so you're actually taking steps to do that.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Baby steps, this five years. Okay, and I feel I've lost my five years.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Okay, okay, so this evokes uh some further curiosity in me to understand you, right? And and so, well, this I'm curious just about living in your family. Do you see any connection with this obligation thing with your family background?

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Essentially, I'm really talking about all relationships. Essentially, what it is, I'm really guarded and I like my space. I feel like people are invasive when they ask too many questions or they need to know things. So, with my family, if I go back to childhood, like you were saying, we keep information to ourselves, we are the best people to keep secret, not because there's anything to be secretive about, but in childhood, it wasn't that great.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Sorry to keep interrupting you because I do want to follow this. So, in my understanding, in your family, the one of the things was it's best to keep to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

But my family did not show me how to make friendships, they don't have friends, we stayed at home, we don't even have that much family, so it was just us, and part of it is I grew up without people in my business.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I see.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

I absolutely grew up with nobody in my business. I can be gone for a day, they wouldn't even know. But now people are trying to get in my house core, and it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

So that was the family atmosphere in which you grew up to didn't have a lot of people in your business or interested in your business? Absolutely. Yeah, okay. What do you imagine or think you learned then living in your family in terms of how to be with others or how to be in a relationship?

SPEAKER_03 16:05

It was bad. It wasn't great.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

What was modeled for you?

Sharing As The Path To Closeness

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Um I I so hard. There was no modeling. So essentially there were no parents at home for most of the time, they were just home to go to sleep. Okay. I had none, no modeling.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Okay, so your parents didn't involve themselves in your life very much at all. Absolutely not forever. So you're on your own. Absolutely. And then are you an only child?

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I am not, but I am very young. I'm the youngest. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

The youngest of how many? Of four? Okay. All right, gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

So I could have my door closed of my room at home, and it would just be there all day.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

There's nobody else phone, literally. I guess I hear that's what you learned. You learned to be in yourself. And it's, I guess I'm hearing that uh almost like, why bother even expressing myself? Nobody's gonna be there for me anyway.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, that's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Yeah, yeah. So would you call that what you learned not to express yourself?

SPEAKER_03 17:18

No, it's not that I don't express myself. I express myself fine. It's just that I have fun, I'm very expressive, I'm very loving all these things. It's just sooner or later I don't want somebody all up in my life. And I've been fighting this for many years because I've known this about myself. Okay, I've been fighting this tendency of mine to push people away.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

So you notice that you push people away.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Oh, of course. I've had great relationships and I say goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Okay, so you notice that in yourself, how you push people away. Okay, so you notice that behavior, you push people away. So, my curiosity question is how do you feel about that? That you push people away.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

There's the piece of me that I keep doing it, so I feel fine with it, but I recognize that when you say you feel fine, do you feel accepting?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Is that something that you simply accept in yourself?

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Yes, I guess so. Because I look back and I wish I had stronger friendship relationships or closer relationships, but I can't say that.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

To be stronger, closer bonds and more information sharing. That's what you desire. A closer bonds. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

More information sharing. So when you say more information sharing, are you saying mutual information sharing?

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yes, I'm saying from me. Most people share nicely.

Choosing To Stay And Nurture

SPEAKER_01 18:56

So information sharing. That's what you desire for yourself. More information sharing, which means that you desire to share more information about yourself or about anything? Yes. All right.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

I believe so.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Oh, okay. Do you know what that is that you would like to share? Let's say if you could or would. What would you like to share? Let's come back to right here. You and I sitting here. What would you most like to share with me about yourself?

SPEAKER_03 19:29

I could share.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Feel free to share everything. You can see.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

All the superficial stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Is that what you would be content with? Just the superficial stuff? No, not in the long run. Okay. Okay, so look and see what's a little bit deeper for you right now. That if you could share, it would reflect a deeper self. Anything. What would you most like me a stranger to you to know about you?

SPEAKER_03 20:02

What would I most like you to know about? I guess I guess it's just what we're speaking about. I have this want for great relationships. I have this discomfort of really getting in on I hear that.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

I guess I hear that as far as communication and sharing. When you say sharing information, I hear that as just sharing yourself, letting someone know who you are in a particular situation or about you. And that could be anything, couldn't it? How you feel about certain things?

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Is actually the easiest thing for me to share, which is I know different than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Well, what else?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

What better thing is there to share than your feelings about something?

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yes, exactly. It's subjective for myself. Like I can go on a trip, I tell no one. I can see something beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Tell no one. So you go on a trip and you tell no one. Do you want to tell anyone anything?

SPEAKER_03 21:02

So I think information sharing is great for relationships and friendships. People say, What did you do this weekend? I don't really like to share.

Integrating Closeness With Space

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Oh, okay. But okay, if somebody asks you, What did you do this weekend? You don't like to share something about yourself. Exactly. Yet I'm hearing you say that the kind of relationship I would like to be in, there would be more mutual sharing. Yes. So I want that in my life, but yet I don't want to share. Exactly. Okay. So what's stopping you? It feels intrusive. When you share something about yourself, you're not being intrusive. You're inviting someone into your world for a moment to share to understand your experience. You went on a trip, you initiate sharing something about it. You're inviting people to share a little in your world. They're not intruding, you're intruding. Inviting them.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. That's what you're doing, but sounds like you have some resistances to that.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Yes. It'll start feeling intrusive. And it's just somebody being interested or sharing that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

But you're talking about closeness in your relationships. That's part of what we're talking about here. That's one of the primary ingredients to activate closeness in anyone or in any relationship, your ability to share something about yourself. That can be anything when it comes to relationships. If somebody asks me how I'm doing, my initial response would be fine, I'm fine. But that doesn't say much. I could always add something about something I just did. We had our grandkids over for Christmas and we had a great time. Sharing something about myself there. So what's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_03 22:54

I would like to try to try to do that.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Try to do it a little bit more, figure out something that won't steal I'm being too vulnerable or something.

Closing Reflections & Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Okay, that's another thing that brings on closeness because we're talking about closeness. Consider when you're out of your willingness to be a little vulnerable, that's what activates closeness. It comes from you. And people do feel close to you when you share something about yourself. When they appreciate your vulnerability. But I can understand that's not easy for you. But what I gather is that this is an outgrowth of you growing up in your family. Just keep to yourself. But that's only something you learned in your family. And you can transcend that. You don't have to follow we're talking about modeling. You're modeling how they were. Basically, the communication is just keep to yourself. That was the message that they conveyed to you. Just keep to yourself. We keep to ourselves here. Live your own life. Don't share separate. Yeah, don't share it with others. Don't share yourself with others. Yeah. You want to just consider what that's cost you in your life. I guess what I'm hearing is what it's cost you is closeness with others.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Yeah. A lot of great relationships. It's just my thing. Especially when people want to get close and they want to get married.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

That's when you get out. If you get too close, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Basically, it's threatening for you. It's threatening or feels threatening to you. It does. To be close with others. And to get close with others. And to understand what that involves, what we're talking about here is a willingness to be vulnerable with yourself a little bit. Doesn't mean you're sobbing, crying about something with somebody. You're just sharing yourself. That's something to work on. You're sharing yourself right now, aren't you? I am. It's very hard. You've come into this situation talking to a stranger, you don't know me, and you're touching on some things about yourself. And how do you feel just doing that right now?

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Especially thinking it's gonna be somewhere else. Like I'm being very careful. It's hard. It is absolutely hard to do.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Well, there's that quality to it.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

But not just this, but it's just I don't understand this. Even my friends just texting me, and it's where are you? And I'm like, Why do people want to know?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

People want to know because they want to know, they want to know you.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

I just won't even respond to text messages.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Lucky I still have friends, I just won't respond. Is that something worthy of overcoming?

SPEAKER_03 25:45

It would be lovable. It would be great. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

What difference would it be to you if you overcame this? I guess I call it a fear of resistance to sharing yourself. If you could overcome that or at least let that go, what possible difference might that make for you in your life in relationships?

SPEAKER_03 26:06

It could be great. Maybe the people are so ambivalent, and I don't even guess anything. And then they know too much information.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Yeah, when you say it could be great, could it be?

SPEAKER_02 26:18

It could be how great could it be? Friendships that feel like you got each other's back forever. Friendships like you got each other's back be desirable.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

For sure, be cruel.

unknown 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

For sure. I and I know that I can build that. I've thought about it a gazillion times. I don't know how to get over that resistance that I have.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

That's why we're having this conversation. If you could get over that resistance, because we're saying that could make a difference for you in your life, you would feel closer with others, you would be more in friendships where you know we have each other's back in that feeling state. And that would be the possible difference. Can you see that this is something that you adopted from your family?

SPEAKER_03 27:00

For sure. I've known it forever.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

You've adopted it. You took it on. True. You took on their programming or their way of being, which says basically we just keep to ourselves. It's safer or something.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

And it's so familiar. So I just lost a number of days where everything is exactly where I lost it.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

It's familiar. But if you could let this go, let's say. If you could let it go, you're saying you'd be more happy or satisfied in your relationships.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

I think I would love it. But on the other hand, I do attempt it and I have these great relationships. Just sooner or later it catches up with me.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, well, that's good to know. You have great relationships, even despite yourself.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah, I do. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

I guess I hear if you could get out of your own way, you might have fantastic relationships, ecstatic relationships.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Yeah, yes, that would be great. Who wouldn't want that? I would like it. And it's still in every relationship. The thing is, even if I explain to you this one and how great it is, same thing for the one before that, same thing for the one before that. I have relationships, I have long relationships, but if I can get out of it, I would be okay with that. I'd be like, oh great.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Well, you say if I could get out of it, you could get out of it anytime you wanted, if you want. And if you decide, let's say if you decided to, but it sounds like you haven't decided to do that in this relationship. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 28:36

No, I've tried. I've tried, but what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

You've tried what?

SPEAKER_03 28:41

So I have said let's end it. I have said a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Okay, so you've said let's end it. Need his agreement to end it?

SPEAKER_03 28:52

I would need my partner to leave to end it.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Oh, you would want him to leave, not you to leave.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Oh, okay. Okay, it's your place, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

If it sounds like if anybody's gonna end this relationship, it's gonna be you, not your partner. That sounds like your partner doesn't want to end the relationship. Is that true? Yes, but you're thinking you want to.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

I always just get to a point where I want to, but it's not for any big reason, Clark. That point, yeah, that was probably about a year back.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

So you've been at this point for a whole year, but you haven't decided to leave this relationship, true? So at least right now I'm deciding to remain in the relationship. Yes. Right now, I'm deciding to remain in the relationship. So I may have thoughts about wanting to leave, but those thoughts don't make any difference because you're not activating them. You're you're activating a decision to remain in this relationship.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

I'm trying. I'm trying something new.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

When it comes to our love relationships or our primary relationships or our committed relationships, those are something to nurture. Wherever it goes, whether it goes in marriage or who knows where, that'll be a function of where you want it to go. All relationships of that kind are just are are worthy of nurturing and bringing your good to it and vulnerability to it. That's what creates closeness, and that's what you want. You want closeness.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

You want closeness, yeah. There's plenty of closeness to learn in this relationship. There's there's room to learn closeness in this relationship, is what I'm picking up in this relationship. Is that true or not? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

We have closeness like it for me in my head, it's just staying in it.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah, yeah, it's all in your head.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

Yeah, it's it's just staying in it. Yeah, but you are staying in it.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Let's try these words and tell me. Right now, I'm choosing to be in this relationship.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Right now, I'm choosing to be in this relationship.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 31:19

It's true.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah, I'm choosing to be in this relationship.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

And I've been choosing to stay in it and break my old habits. It is hard because anytime I'll have a chance, I'll be like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

That's why we're having this conversation. Yeah, because that's what you're seeking. It's not what therapy is about, is learning to break certain habitual ways of being, yeah, which you're talking about here.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah, I realize that if I were to break the relationship, I know that I'd look back at some point and be like, oh, I broke another relationship, but that's in retrospect on the current present feeling. I always feel it's great. It's great to get a relationship, it's great to get out of a relationship. They're both great for me.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah. I guess another thing that I'm hearing implied in what you're saying is what do I consider as a healthy relationship? Okay. A healthy relationship is one that you grant one another the space to do or be your own thing. If you need to be in your own space or do your own thing or go on a trip by yourself or something, that the relationship is granting that in saying that's okay to do that. That's just wonderful in my mind that you have that quality in this relationship already.

SPEAKER_03 32:45

I think, yeah, and I think outside of my internal feelings of obligation, I think I need to lean into that because I think that's a lot of me feeling anchored down, right? And I do think my relationship has that.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

I'm trying to lean into that to see if I can okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Try to lean into that. Continue leaning into that. If I have any advice for you, it would be that. Continue to lean into it.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

And it's really nice just to really think to myself that I do want closeness in relationships, but I need to make my space.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yep, exactly. You want closeness and you want your own space. That's the recipe for a healthy relationship where you can have both.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Perfect. I will be working on that.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Not either or. Yeah. Okay. We are coming towards the end of our meeting here today. So this is how we end each meeting is taking a moment to turn your attention inward and look and see what word or phrase names my here and now feeling coming to a close. Just a few words, how I feel about our meeting today. Is there anything that I take away from this conversation at all?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yeah, exactly what I was just saying. There is a space. I'll have to figure it out with friendships. It's a lot harder for me, but there is a space where I do want to continue having my bond with my relationship. And by the same token, I don't think I can create the amount of space that I need, but I need to at least create as much space that makes sense within a relationship that I need.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

I see.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Okay. So that's good. And I know even from this, just to get back inside my head, I would like this with friendships. So to break that barrier where I stop myself from texting or stop myself from sharing. Right. Check it out every now and again.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank you very much. That could be, yeah, lean into that. It's okay for people, you're fighting your programming that you learned in your family, which is keep to yourself. And that's what you've been acting out in your relationships. And you're seeking to transcend that. And just to discover to be a little to be open with others, not keep to myself, but how about letting people live? Exactly. Exactly. Every relationship has its own your friendships, you share whatever you share there. And your love relationships, you share whatever you share there. If you have family, you share whatever you share there. Every relationship has its own kind of set of ways of sharing yourself and what you share yourself. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

We'll go forth with that. Okay, so we'll complete here. Thank you for your opening up here. I think every human being can relate to relationships and being close in our relationships. That's what we most desire. And it's also something that we most fear.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

All right, go forth and do whatever you do. And uh and uh yeah, go forth and uh let's see, go forth in being yourself, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Perfect. I will say with myself and make sure to do that. Thank you. I hope you're enjoying the holidays.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Thank you. Take okay. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to this edition of Eyewitness to Therapy. If you, the listener, desire to be interviewed in a similar fashion as this one, feel free to contact me at courtcurtis at yahoo.com. Peace, love, and presence.