Turning Interview Anxiety into Confidence: Expert Strategies from a Speech Professor

In today’s episode, Pierre Michiels interviews Cassandra Wingert. Cassandra Wingert is a speech communication professor who specializes in helping students manage high speech anxiety. In the interview, they discuss interview nerves, confidence-building strategies, and effective communication habits. After listening, we hope you have a better understanding of managing anxiety during interviews. 

Full episode transcript can be found on the episode page. Below is a general timestamp summary.  

0:00–4:00 — Introduction & Teaching Philosophy
Pierre welcomes Cassandra back to the podcast. She introduces her role as a speech communication professor and explains her “Maslow before Bloom” philosophy, emphasizing safety, regulation, and play-based learning as foundations for confident public speaking. 

4:00–9:00 — Understanding Interview Anxiety
Cassandra breaks down the psychology of nervousness using a car analogy, describing how the amygdala triggers stress responses that disrupt clear thinking. She explains why interview anxiety is normal and how the brain misinterprets interviews as threats. 

9:00–15:00 — Strategies to Manage Anxiety
They explore physical, mental, and behavioral techniques such as breath regulation, mindset reframing, practicing aloud, and simulating interview environments. Cassandra highlights how preparation reduces the brain’s “alarm system.” 

15:00–21:00 — Perfectionism & Recovering from Mistakes
Cassandra explains how perfectionism drives anxiety and shares methods for recovering when losing one’s place. She emphasizes that interviewers value professionalism and resilience over flawless performance. 

21:00–28:00 — Vocal Habits & Communication Techniques
They discuss common nervous speaking habits—speeding up, rambling, monotone delivery—and practical ways to slow down, pause effectively, structure responses, and maintain vocal clarity. 

28:00–36:00 — Nonverbal Communication & Confidence
Cassandra covers posture, eye contact, facial expression, and how to project steadiness even when nervous. She advises shifting from “performance mode” to “contribution mode.” 

36:00–40:00 — Long-Term Skill Building & Final Insights
They explore how consistent practice, mock interviews, and communication courses build lasting confidence. Cassandra closes by reinforcing that communication is a learnable skill and encourages students to lean into discomfort to grow. 

Resources Discussed:
Cassandra Wingert: wingertc@cod.edu 
College of DuPage course Speech 1100 (reach out each semester for the special High Speech Anxiety section numbers) 
College of DuPage course Speech 1150 Intro Business Communication 
College of DuPage course Speech 1120 Small-Group Communication

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Transcript

 Welcome to the Career Ready podcast. Learn about resumes, cover letters, LinkedIn, interviewing, and all things need to be career ready with the Career Service Center at College. DuPage. I'm your host, Pierre Michiels. I'm excited to have Cassandra Wingert, a speech communication professor here at College of DuPage. For our regular listeners, you may recognize her name and voice from an earlier episode when she and I discussed career paths as a result of studying speech communication. I'm excited to have her back on the podcast to tap into her insight on better controlling nerves during the interview. Cassandra, thanks for being a guest on the podcast again. Thank you so much for having me back and really excited to be here. So because we're having you back, I want to change it up. Normally we ask about the elevator pitch, but instead of repeating that, let's start somewhere a little deeper. Can you briefly introduce yourself and share your teaching philosophy and how it shapes the way you approach public speaking? Anxiety? Absolutely. So hi everyone. My name is Cassandra Wingert. I am a communication professor here at the College of DuPage, and I teach the high speech anxiety public speaking course, and I. That's a mouthful. But to clarify, there's medically diagnosed anxiety and there is generalized anxiety. And the class I teach is specifically for students with high, speech anxiety. And so that course focuses on helping students translate communication skills into real confidence. And I love that we're starting with my teaching philosophy, because it really shapes everything that I do. So at the core, I believe in the phrase Milo before bloom. And if you're not familiar with it, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and Bloom's Taxonomy are two foundational frameworks in education. Maslow's hierarchy of Needs reminds us that humans need to feel physically and psychologically safe before they can fully engage. And Bloom's Taxonomy focuses on higher order thinking skills like analyzing, evaluating, and creating Maslow before bloom is the idea that if someone doesn't feel safe, their brain isn't ready to perform at its highest level, which relates really well to what we're going to talk about today, which is, anxiety and job interviews. So what that means is, before I can expect a student to think critically, perform well, or communicate confidently, they need to feel safe. Safe in their body, safe in the room, safe making mistakes. And when we're anxious, especially in public speaking or in interviews, our brains shift into threat mode. And when that happens, the part of the brain responsible for clear thinking and articulation goes offline. So instead of asking how can I make my students perform better, I ask, how do I help them feel regulated, prepared, and supported? That's where the other part of my theory and my philosophy in teaching comes into place, which is play based learning. I honestly think kindergarten teacher teachers were really onto something. When school is fun and, when there's curiosity whether it's movement and energy and even a little surprised students engage differently, they tend to lean in. So in my classes, you might see scavenger hunts, interactive challenges, collaborative games. I even use a gamified grading system where students feel like they're progressing rather than being penalized. I want my students to really walk into class thinking, what are we going to do today? Instead of thinking, oh my gosh, I hope I don't get called on. And because I know that when their anxiety lowers in the classroom, their learning is going to increase. And the beautiful thing about it all is that when students build communication skills in an environment that feels safe and even playful, those skills are going to transfer with them. They walk into interviews more regulated. They recover faster if they stumble. They see communication not as a performance or a key to surviving, but as a skill that they can actually practice and grow and become better at. So for me, it's never been about eliminating anxiety. I always tell my students like, I cannot solve that problem for you. You need someone else for that. It's about creating conditions where confidence can develop naturally, and then helping them develop the coping skills to deal with anxiety. Well, I love hearing all of that. Hearing your play approach to learning makes me want to take one of your speech classes. Yeah, I come by. But I want to circle back to that, first piece there. There's a little bit for bloom, because that makes a whole lot of sense to me. When I'm talking about interviewing, you know, I always, like, ask people, are you, you know, excite for an interview? And I always encourage them, like, you should be excited because there's opportunity on the other end. But if we're not set to perform, to present ourselves, well, that opportunity on the other end, you know, it's still not possible. So we have to, you know, work through that. So then another question I like to ask is how many of you are anxious about an interview? And then I actually tell them, I hope they're anxious for an interview because that means you care about the results, right? Absolutely. But it's being able to control those nerves. That is really important. And that's why I'm excited for our conversation today. So we can be anxious and excited for an interview in good ways. Instead of holding us back. Yes, definitely. So along with that, many jobseekers are feeling anxious about these interviews they're entering. So from a communication or psychological perspective, what causes this nervousness? So what is everything? Nervousness makes a lot of sense, especially if we understand what's happening in the brain and we normalize it. And then we learn to navigate it. I like to explain anxiety using a car analogy. Imagine that your brain is a car and the prefrontal cortex the part that's responsible for reasoning, organizing your thoughts and articulating clearly parts that you need to communicate clearly is the driver of this car. That's the part that you really want to be in control during an interview. It helps us to structure our answers, to tell stories, and to respond thoughtfully to the questions. But there's another part of your brain that's called the amygdala. The amygdala is responsible for triggering things like fight or flight. It releases saliva and it releases all of our stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol. So you think of that as the car's alarm system. Its job is to detect danger and then keep you safe. The issue is that the amygdala isn't great at distinguishing between a real physical threat and a social evaluation. So when you walk into an interview and you know you're being judged and evaluated and potentially rejected, the alarm system goes off. When this happens, it's like the alarm has hijacked the steering wheel, right? The driver is no longer in control. Your heart rate increases. Your breathing might get shallow, your hands might shake or get clammy. And suddenly the driver, that rational, articulate part of the brain is not responsible anymore. It's not in control of what's happening. That's when you would blame it on the answers that you've practiced, or start rambling or second guessing yourself. It's not that the speaker is unprepared or incapable, it's that your nervous system thinks you're in danger. So the good news is you don't need to remove the alarm system. It's there to protect you. It's doing its job. The goal is to learn how to commit enough to be the driver and steer again. So when we regulate our breathing and we reframe an interview as a conversation rather than a threatening situation, and we practice, that's really key. We got to practice enough that the road feels familiar. We're essentially telling the alarm system like, hey, I've, I've got this. I've been here before. I've navigated this. And when the driver is backing control, that's when we start being able to actually use our skills again. I love that analogy. It makes a lot of sense. in my role we talk a lot about that practicing and just approaching it as a conversation. But there is a lot more to that. So do you have some other techniques students can be using before an interview to help manage that anxiety? Whether it be physical, mental, behavioral, whatever it may be. Definitely. I love this question because managing anxiety isn't one magic trick, and it's not the same for everybody. But I do have some tips to share. It's it's really about addressing body, mind and behaviors together. So first, thinking physically we want to regulate our breathing. When we're anxious, our breathing gets shallow and typically fast. And that's because the brain's telling us that there's danger. So if you can focus on slowing down your breathing, even something as simple as inhaling for four seconds, exhaling for six seconds, you're signaling to the nervous system that like, hey, I'm safe. Longer exhales are especially powerful because they calm the stress response. So. So physically first breathing second, mentally having that reframe of the interview instead of thinking they're there to judge me, shifting into we are having a conversation to see if this is a mutual shift, a mutual fit. Because I think sometimes we go into interviews just thinking about the judgment piece and not really. It's like we are also there to determine if this is the right place for us. That small cognitive shift lowers the threat level. It reminds you that anxiety is not incompetence, it's energy. You can interpret it as readiness instead of impending doom. And then third, behaviorally, we want to pair strategically, but not obsessively. You don't want to memorize a script that actually increases our anxiety, because you're trying to recall exact wording under pressure. In the in the speech classroom, we practice extemporaneous speaking, which is having a outline and practicing it, but not memorizing it word for word. So instead, you want to prepare stories and, think through bullet points that you could talk about or practice saying your answers out loud. Your brain needs to actually rehearse in the format you're going to use it. So it's really important to not just practice in your head, but to say what you want to say out loud. And here's the one thing that surprises people. You have to stimulate stimulate the environment as much as possible. I always tell my students, to practice in an environment similar to the classroom when they're giving speeches. So that's the same for an interview. If it's a virtual interview, you want to practice on camera. If it's an in-person interview, you want to practice sitting upright and answering questions and probably having someone watch you. The more familiar the road feels, the less your brain is going to sound that alarm. So as much as you can simulate the environment, the better. And finally, I would recommend building in a buffer so arrive early, sit in your car, take the time to practice your breathing. Don't run in last minute because when we're rushing, our cortisol levels spike and we begin to feel more anxious. So when you combine body regulation, mindset shifts, and strategic preparation, you're not trying to eliminate anxiety and eliminate anxiety. You're lowering it enough so that the driver of the car, your rational brain, can stay in control. So many great tips within there, and I would encourage everyone to just kind of like replay that response right there with all those tips. I just want to really emphasize that second point. As far as this being more of a conversation, because that's what I experience a lot like people feel that judge me of I have to perform well. So then I can get this job. But then they forget, like, am I learning about what I'm entering if I get this job right? Because if they just offer us and we don't know what we're getting ourselves into, that could be, you know, even more anxiety provoking in a long term on the job. So to remember, it's a conversation and that you should be engaging and asking questions and learning from them, not just them learning from you. Because ultimately you make the final decision, right? They make a decision if they want to offer the job, but you make the decision if you want to accept that offer, and you want to be informed and thinking of it as a conversation, I think it helps with that a lot. So now that we've gone through some of these preparation pieces, how does, perfectionism and judgment feel? Public speaking anxiety specifically? I'm thinking when someone freezes or loses their train of thought while speaking, what's the best way to recover gracefully in that moment? This is such an important question, so I'm really glad you asked that. Perfectionism is one of the biggest hidden drivers of public speaking anxiety. I've noticed somewhere along the way with students, getting an A has shifted. It used to mean being exceptional and above and beyond. And now for many students, it feels like the baseline expectation. Anything less than an A tends to feel like failure. And so it's almost like perfectionism has become the trend. And in a speech classroom, that pressure shows up immediately. When I ask students what they're afraid of in public speaking, they rarely say standing in front of people, they tend to say things like making a mistake, messing up my words, saying something wrong, looking foolish, or being judged. It always comes down to two fears fear of failure and fear of rejection. They're not afraid of the speech. They're always afraid of what other people will think. And if something goes wrong and neurologically that makes a lot of sense. Our brains interpret social judgment and rejection as threats. And that same alarm system that I've been talking about gets activated as if we're in physical danger. Because we, we perceive embarrassment often as danger. And in today's world, where we live in a kind of constant court of public opinion and people see mistakes amplified online, the stakes feel even higher in a job interview, that pressure becomes very real because you are being evaluated. You know the outcome matters. So the idea of perfectionism tightens its grip. But here's the shift I try to help students make. We are human. Humans are flawed. We make mistakes, and mistakes are not only okay, they are often how we learn. But I actually really embrace making mistakes and failing in my classroom. One of my favorite examples of this is from my written permit test. When I was learning to drive. I got one question wrong, and I don't remember any of the questions I got right, but I vividly remember that if someone slams on the brakes and you rear end them, it is your fault, because that's the one I missed and I learned it because I got it wrong. I made a mistake. So mistakes stick and they teach. And first of all, we don't want to get lost in trying to find the perfect answer in an interview. Your goal should be answering the question to the best of your ability and chances are you have the answers. So when someone freezes or loses their train of thought in an interview, the first step is to intern it internally. Don't catastrophize it right? Like instead of thinking I blew it, I just tell myself, oops, I made a mistake. I'll worry about that later. I compartmentalize it so I can stay present in the interview. And then externally you recover simply and confidently. It's totally okay to say I'm sorry I lost my place. Can we revisit that question, or can we cycle back to this question at the end? A short but confident acknowledgment shows that you're able to regulate, and most interviewers can appreciate clarity more than perfection, so recovering smoothly often makes a stronger impression than pretending it didn't happen. Those small reset phrases actually show the interviewer that you're composed. And like I said, most interviewers are not expecting perfection. They want professionalism and adaptability. So I think what's powerful is how you can recover often matters more than the mistake itself. And employers are interested in watching for your resilience. Can you regulate yourself? Can you adjust? Can you move forward? Perfection will fuel your anxiety and it leaves no room for humanity. But confidence grows when we sort of accept the mistake as part of being human and trust that one imperfect moment is not going to define our competence. Again, a lot of great information, and it's making me think of like being in an interview, and they ask about a mistake we've made in the past, and they're asking that, so then they can assess, like how aware are we of ourselves and they're not looking for perfection, but they're looking for people that can learn and recover, from their mistakes. When they ask that question. But as you were just illustrating, we could even demonstrate that right here in an interview. If we do make a mistake in what we're saying, it's not the end of the world. We're not striving for perfectionism. It is that professionalism, as you said. And I love that because that's what employers are really looking for. It's not perfectionism, it's professionalism that they want to be hiring. So thank you for, all that wonderful insight here. Absolutely. So what are some practical strategies for students who speak too fast, to slow to monotone ramble when they're nervous? I know I'm guilty of lot of these things. So it's not just students, but, what are some strategies we could be working on here? Oh, it's definitely not just students. This is such a common experience, and I want listeners to know that if you speak too fast to, to or too monotone, or even if you ramble when you're nervous, that's not a personality fall. That's again, your nervous system at work. When you're anxious, our body shifts into urgency mode because adrenaline is actually increasing, right? That amygdala is pumping, cortisol and adrenaline into our system. So our breathing tends to get shallow and our brain says, let's get through this quickly. That's why people tend to speed up where their voice gets small, or they lose the vocal variation because their brain is working so hard just to retrieve information. So the solution isn't be better, it's regulate and structure. If you speak too fast. Practicing pausing on purpose. It's a great book, a great tip. Pause, a pause. It feels like a long time to you, but they sound confident to the listener. So a simple trick is to breathe at punctuation. Inhale at every period in a sentence that naturally slows your pace. And if you speak too softly again, check your breathing. Your breath is, high in your chest. Then your your voice is going to be small. If your breath is slower in your diaphragm, your voice is going to carry more easily. And what feels slightly too loud to you usually sounds just right to the listener. For someone who, if you sound monotone, that's generally related to cognitive overload. Your brain is focused on remembering what to say or trying to find the perfect wording in real time. And your brain shifts into like editing mode and therefore your vocal energy drops. So when preparing for an interview, instead of memorizing perfect answers word for word, you want to remember, bullet point ideas or examples and and stories that you can discuss. When thinking in concepts rather than exact phrases, your tone becomes more natural because you're explaining as opposed to reciting and, then clarity of structure sort of reduces the mental strain. And if you ramble, that's usually anxiety. Trying to fill silent silence feels really scary. So we tend to just keep talking. The key here is structure. It's okay to take a moment before responding to a question, so you can organize your thoughts and use simple frameworks when giving an example in response to an interview question such as like knowing to describe the situation, discuss the action you took and highlight the result, right? Like if you remember that pattern, I'm just here to describe the situation. Discuss the action I took, highlight the results. Your brain knows where it's supposed to go. You have sort of this roadmap just like in speech. I have my students use an outline. That way they don't wonder as much. The bigger picture here is that these habits are again symptoms of nerves, not signs that you're a bad communicator. So instead of trying to perform better, focus on calming the body first and giving the brain structure. When the nervous system settles, your voice will settle as well. You know, when you talk about these different things, I can really see, like how I could be tweaking some of what I'm doing, and what I've been trying to work on naturally, over time. Right. I don't feel like I'm a good public speaker, but being able to pause and, you know, really think about what I want to say. And I feel this a lot where they I pause and all of a sudden, I think, you know, hours are going by when it's just like fractions of seconds. But it does help me better present what I want to be saying. So each of these little pieces can really help you present yourself better. So thanks for those little strategies here. Absolutely. I think we could all use a little more time to like, regulate our systems often have it that help. And so I've got another question. It's kind of shifting gears a little bit here or more so for us, some specific listeners. But do you have any advice for those that, English may not be their first language or, you know, they're very self-conscious about their, accent, pace or vocabulary when they're going into that interview. Yeah. I love this question because it's a really real experience for so many people. And first, I want to say this clearly, an accent is not a weakness. It is evidence that you speak more than one language. And that's a strength in many workplaces that's actually an asset. So the anxiety usually isn't about communication ability. It's again, going back to that fear of judgment. And that makes sense if you already feel like you're being evaluated in an interview, adding concerns about pace or vocabulary or pronunciation can increase that internal pressure that you feel. But here's what I remind my students. Interviews and speeches are listening for clarity, right? Like the interviewer is listening for clarity and competence, not perfection. If English isn't your first language, give yourself permission to slow down slower pace. Actually increases clarity and gives your brain time to find the words you're looking for. And if you can't think of an exact word, describe the idea. Communication is about meaning, not vocabulary performance. It's also completely appropriate to take a breath and say, let me think about how to phrase that. Or that's a great question. That pause, it's going to show thoughtfulness, not weakness. And if you're feeling self-conscious about your accent, remember that confidence is not sounding like everyone else. Confidence is owning your voice. Most people are far more focused on what you're saying then how you're saying it. So the goal isn't to erase your accent or to speak perfectly. The goal is to be understood. To be clear, steady, and a thoughtful communicator in any accent is incredibly powerful. And honestly, multilingual communicators often bring something really special to interviews. They they bring adaptability, perspective and resilience. So that's something to lean into, not hide from. I really appreciate hearing that because I've never conveyed that as I was meeting with someone about the value in their accent, their value in showing, naturally, being multilingual because I know that's something that employers, regardless of what the field is, they're going to value it. And to have that accent, to have English as your second language is a natural value provider. So almost embracing it in a way, just making sure that you're taking full ownership in that is great to hear. So now let's really shift gears. We've been talking a lot about that verbal presentation and what we're seeing, but that's only part of this communication. So how important is that nonverbal communication. And what should students and job seekers keep in mind about their posture or facial expression, eye contact, all those types of things? This is such an important question because nonverbal communication is always working whether you're aware of it or not. One of my former professors, Doctor Chris Miller, who still teaches here at used to say, one cannot not communicate. And that line has stayed with me. Even if you're silent, even if you're just sitting there waiting for the first question in your interview, your posture, your facial expression, and your eye can't eye contact, they are already sending messages. Research tells us people form impressions really quickly before you even finish your first sentence, the interviewer is going to pick up on cues about confidence, openness, and engagement from the sound of your voice and how you're sitting. So start with posture. Think grounded, not rigid. You want your feet planted, your shoulders relaxed, your spine tall. Slouching inward can reinforce anxiety physically, while upright posture will signal both to the interviewer and to your own nervous system that you are capable and present. Facial expressions matter more than people realize. You don't need to smile constantly. That would be weird, but a relaxed, open expression and a slight smile when appropriate that communicates warmth and approachability. It's also going to subtly lift your vocal tone, and then eye contact is really about connection, not intensity. So if it's one interviewer you want to aim for steady, natural eye contact like when you have a conversation with anyone. If it's a panel you want to obviously share your gaze, and in a virtual interview, you want to look at the camera when you're speaking because that's how the other person experiences eye contact. The key is all about alignment. Your nonverbal communication should always support your message, not distract from it. So you're not trying to perform. You're just trying to show presence. So you have already thrown in some great information in there just as far as the value of the nonverbal communication. But tying that in a little bit more to confidence if we're not feeling confident, I know you already shared a little bit. But what can we be doing to better project that when we're not feeling it? Like the way you rephrase that question, because I'm not a fan of the fake it til you make it philosophy. Most people don't want to fake anything. And honestly, your nervous system knows when you're pretending and people can typically see through it. So confidence isn't pretending that you're not nervous, it's behaving in a steady way, despite the nerves. One of the most practical things I learned, and I actually learned this in a public speaking anxiety course that I took myself, is the value of a warm, realistic self-talk, not hype. Not I'm the best candidate ever, but something grounded and believable. Instead of saying I shouldn't be nervous, you can say things like, it makes sense that I'm nervous because this matters to me, or I'm prepared for this, or I don't need to be perfect. I just need to be clear, and I can handle a pause before I speak. That kind of internal dialog really regulates the brain, and it lowers the threat response because you're not fighting yourself. From there, confidence becomes behavioral. So we need to slow our pace slightly. That upright pause before answering. Let silence exist for a second. Those behaviors are read as confidence externally, and they actually create calmness internally. Because your body influences your brain just as much as your brain influences your body. Another practical shift is, move from performance mode to contribution mode. Instead of thinking, do they like me? Think, what can I offer here? When you focus on being useful rather than being impressive, the pressure is going to naturally decrease. Confidence isn't like a feeling that you can wait for. It's a series of small, steady behaviors and compassionate internal messages that allow you to show up even when you're nervous, so you don't have to fake it. You just have to regulate and proceed. Yeah, working on that regulation, doing these small incremental things to help you just, you know, feel better about yourself. And then change that projection, I think can go a long way. So sticking right along this theme here, what are some practical techniques students can use on their own or with friends to help build interview comfort and confidence over time? I love this question because comfort doesn't come from thinking about interviews. It comes from experiencing them in really low stakes over time. So first practice out loud, not in your head. Your brain needs, rehearsal in the same format. You'll use it. That's why earlier I talked about simulating the environment. You want to think through answers? And when we do that silently, it's not as productive. It doesn't prepare your your mouth, your breathing or your pacing. So always say the answers out loud so you can hear yourself. Second, don't just collect practice questions. I mentioned simulating the setting. That's really important. And that includes not just the environment, but sitting upright, dressing like you would for an interview, having someone sit across from you and ask questions. If it's virtual practice on camera and looking at a lens while you answer, your nervous system is going to react to the environment, to the more familiar the setting feels and the experience feels, the less your brain sounds the alarm. I always tell my students, like, you have to practice. The feelings are going to feel when you do the speech or give the interview. So, it's about not just simulating the setting, but feeling the feelings that we're going to feel. And then the third thing is build in light pressure. Ask a friend to interrupt you or have follow up questions, things that are going to catch you a little bit off guard and practice recovering. If you lose your train of thought right. The goal isn't perfect answers. It's about that building of resilience in real time. A fourth thing I would say is record yourself once or twice as you practice not to criticize every detail, but to notice patterns. Are you rushing? Do you feel the silence? Do you avoid making eye contact? Awareness is a really powerful tool and often, less dramatic than we think. I know my students hate watching their speeches back, but it's such a powerful tool. So, I always recommend recording yourself and watching it back and then finally repeat. Exposure matters. So do short, consistent reps five minutes a day. Answering one question out loud is more effective than trying to cram one time right before an interview. too often we have someone coming to our often saying, like, I have an interview tomorrow or in a couple days, and I want to work on my interview and I'm glad that they're thinking about it ahead of the actual interview. But I would encourage everyone, like, I don't care if you're not even job seeking right now. You're applying work on that interviewing, you know, just work on these little things. So then over time, when the pressure is on, you're ready to go. Yeah. And one other thing I would add is that, I would encourage students to take advantage of the resources on campus because we do have resources for mock interviews and peer coaching, and to take advantage of those things early and often. Yeah. And I think the variety of, you know, all those different resources that it's, you know, the Career Services Center, if that is, you know, with classmates with, you know, it's something else on campus that variety is going to prepare you for the variety of things that you'll see there in the interview. So, we're getting close here to wrapping up, what's one communication habit students build and speech class that helps them in interviewing and this long term professionalism? I love this question because when students first walk into speech classes and I ask why, they hear a lot of them just say, well, it's a degree requirement. And I always follow that up with like, okay, well, but why would a college and honestly, the state require that we end up having a much bigger conversation about how essential communication is? It's how we build friendships. It's how we form romantic relationships. It's how we express identity and advocate our needs. It's how we advance our careers. It's linked to academic success. So it's even how we participate in civic life. And it's so foundational that our country's founding fathers made it the first freedom to protect. Right. So if I had to name one habit that students build in speech class that serves them long term, I think it's organized, ethical, critical thinking expressed out loud how to take complex, sometimes messy thoughts and turn them into structured, logical, audience centered communication. I know that's a lot, but I couldn't just pick one, you know, put in a speech class. Students learn how to ask, like, what's my main, main point? What does my audience need first? What evidence is going to support this and how do I transition clearly from one idea to the next so they don't get lost and confused. But they're also learning research and critical thinking and they're evaluating sources. They're separating fact from opinion. And they're asking, is this credible? Is it ethical? Is this persuasive? Is it this right, for the reasons the habit of slowing down and examining information and then presenting it responsibly is incredibly transferable in meetings? This means making recommendations, recommendations grounded in evidence and interviews. It means answering with clarity and substance and in a leadership position. It means communicating decisions, transparently and thoughtfully. So speech classes are really teaching students, not just to have a voice, but how to organize their ideas, support them with credible research, adapt them to the appropriate audience, and deliver them ethically and with consideration of their impact. At the end of the day, having a voice is really powerful, but being able to organize and deliver your ideas in a way that others can understand and respond to is what turns your voice into influence. And that skill doesn't expire after graduation. It really compounds over time. Yeah, and there's so much value in these speech communication classes and, you know, developing this professionalism. We've actually had a whole episode talking about it. So I'm going to encourage our listeners today, to look in the show notes. I'm going to put a link to our previous conversation, because I think that could also be really helpful in thinking about, the value of communication, professionally. So, to, look for that link here in the show notes. Check out that previous conversation. And now, we're going to go ahead and wrap up here. But before we do, are there any last tips or insights you want to share with the listeners? Definitely. If I could leave listeners with one idea, it would be this communication is not a personality trait. It's not just something people are naturally good at. It is a skill. And skill can be built. If you struggle with public speaking anxiety, that doesn't mean you're bad at speaking. It means your nervous system is doing your job and there are structured, supportive ways to to work through that. In fact, I mentioned at the beginning we offer a specialized section of speech 1100 that's designed specifically for students to experience higher levels of speaking anxiety. It's the same for outcomes, but with intentional support, pacing, and skill building. That helps focus on regulation and confidence. The students who are interested can reach out to me via email, my emails. wingert@cod.edu if you find it in the show notes to. Oh, awesome. Great. Yeah. And if you're thinking more about career readiness, we also offer a business communication course which focuses on professional writing, presentations, workplace communication. I teach small group communication, which honestly might be one of the most underrated professional skills because almost no one works alone. They're knowing how to collaborate, navigate conflict, and make decisions. That's career gold. Plus, you get to do an analysis of a group by watching reality TV in my class. So it's really fun. But beyond specific courses, my bigger encouragement is don't avoid communication because it makes you uncomfortable. Really lean into it. You you cannot wait to feel confident. You have to develop your communication skills. Confidence is usually the result of practice, not the prerequisite. So take the class, volunteer to speak. Practice the interview. The ability to communicate clearly, ethically and confidently is going to impact every domain of your life your relationships with career, your leadership, how much you engage civically. And every time you move toward discomfort instead of away from it, you're you're building capacity so your voice matters. And learning how to use it effectively is one of the best investments that you can make academically, professionally and personally. Thank you so much. I'm also going to quit, those different classes as resources in our show notes. So if any of those classes sound of interest to you, check out the show notes. So then you can, register, get involved in those classes to help you work on the skill sets. Right. Because communication is a skill that we can be working on over time. So thank you, Cassandra, for all this wonderful information. And joining me again on the podcast. I've really enjoyed both of our conversations so much. Thank you for our listeners for taking in all this content as well. We don't have any listener question in today's episode, but if you have a question you want to hear answered in a future episode, you could submit to the careerpodcast@cod.edu, and we hope you join us for our next episode. For more information to help you be career ready.