Ketones and Coffee Podcast with Lorenz
Ketones and Coffee Podcast with Lorenz
Episode 177: Dr. Thomas Seyfried ON The Future of Cancer Treatments
In this episode of the Ketones and Coffee Podcast, host Lorenz welcomes Dr. Thomas Seyfried, a scientist renowned for his pioneering research into cancer and metabolic diseases. Dr. Seyfried, who holds a Ph.D. in Genetics and Biochemistry, discusses his controversial theory that cancer is not a genetic but a mitochondrial metabolic disease.
Dr. Seyfried underscores the inconsistency he found in existing research and the potential of non-toxic therapies like calorie restriction and ketogenic diets to manage cancer. He provides compelling evidence and case studies, arguing for a paradigm shift in cancer treatment. This episode offers listeners an insightful exploration of alternative cancer therapies and the need for a broader acceptance within the medical community.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:14 Dr. Seyfried's Background and Research Focus
02:52 Challenging the Genetic Theory of Cancer
04:35 The Role of Mitochondria in Cancer
15:14 Historical Context and Paradigm Shift
22:42 Metabolic Dysfunction and Cancer Development
29:12 Understanding Mitochondria and Chronic Diseases
29:43 Targeting Cancer Metabolism
30:04 The Role of DNA Mutations and ROS
31:27 Strategic Glutamine Targeting
31:53 Ketosis and Cancer Treatment
33:21 Challenges in the Medical Community
36:07 Hybrid Cancer Treatments
37:31 Patient Involvement in Metabolic Therapy
38:20 Success Stories and Documentary Efforts
40:03 The Future of Cancer Treatment
41:05 Addressing the Medical Community's Resistance
43:23 The Need for Metabolic Therapy Awareness
Support Dr. Seyfried! https://foundationformetaboliccancertherapies.com/
You can support him in multiple ways:
- Buy his summary book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLJQ13F2
- Buy his scientific book: https://www.amazon.com/Cancer-Metabolic-Disease-Management-Prevention/dp/0470584920
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Hey guys. Welcome to the ketones and coffee podcast. I'm Lawrence, and I'm so grateful to have you joining me on this journey. Every week I bring in guests to have the knowledge and experience to help you on your own journey to a better health. I'm so excited for this guys today. We're We have an honor of hosting Dr. Thomas Seyfried, a distinguished scientist whose groundbreaking research has reshaped understanding of cancer and metabolic diseases. Dr. Seyfried received his Ph. D. in genetics and biochemistry from the University of Illinois. Throughout his career, Dr. Dr. Siegfried has received numerous accolades from prestigious organizations, such as the National Institute of Health and the American Society of Neurochemistry. His research focuses on gene environment interactions related to complex diseases with significant contributions to the field of epilepsy, autism, brain cancer, and neurodegenerative diseases. It's an honor, Dr. Thomas Siegfried. Welcome to the Ketones Coffee podcast.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Oh, thank you very much, Lance. It's very nice to be here today.
0613:is nice to finally grace your presence here on the podcast. How are you? How are things? What are you excited about today?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Well, today happens to be a very nice day. Very low humidity might get up about 85. I'll go over to the gym after this, relax do a few things. And we have a faculty meeting this afternoon outside. So that should be interesting.
0613:Very exciting. Very exciting. You know, I've had a lot of many interviews on my show, but really I am starstruck by someone's presence. A little hiccup on the beginning there, but you know, with my connection issues, but solely sometimes, you know, your impact on other people's lives. I mean, the topic we are about to discuss today, sir, your own personal mission, your book. Cancer as a metabolic disease. As I was, you know, examining the reviews about the book, countless individuals has reported life changing effects and a lot of them say life saving. If anyone of you, someone dear to you is struggling with cancer or maybe you yourself, this episode is for you. Sir Thomas Seyfried, the word cancer itself does something to us that no other word can. You know, it's, it's one of the most devastating disease known to man. The current research tells us that some of us are genetically predisposed to developing cancer. And we all know someone that is, has been affected by this disease, but you offer a new theory, one that doesn't need to be. Chemotherapy, radiation, even surgery all at once, right? And we got a lot to discuss here. You say cancer is primarily a mitochondrial metabolic disease. That offers hope. I mean, first of all, what has led you to the research, specifically moving away from the theory that it's not a genetic disease, but rather a metabolic disease? Tell us that story.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Okay. So, yeah, well, that's certainly would be a paradigm change for sure. But you have to look at all of the facts and evidence, and then you have to, there's several, several things you well, required me to know before I could suggest that the paradigm, the current paradigm is incorrect and as you said, I have a degree in genetics and biochemistry you have to have a, a foundational understanding of evolutionary biology, And, and you have to be familiar with the original work of Otto Warburg. So, and you need to do the research experiments yourself to test ideas directly in your lab. You don't rely on what others say. You do the experiments yourself and you see what the results happen to be. And that's what we do. So, Like everyone, almost everyone I thought cancer was a genetic disease. I mean, we had this in all of our research lectures that we get whether they're departmental seminars, whether in the textbooks of biology, cell biology or biochemistry, you can pick up any one of them and they'll say that cancer is a genetic disease. And then of course, on the National Cancer Institute website at the NIH. It says cancer is a genetic disease. Who am I to question, to question the prevailing view the dogma the silent assumption. But I, I started seriously questioning that when I started to see research in my own lab that treating animals that have tumors with calorie restricted diets cause significant reduction. in the rate of growth the inflammation around the tumor and many other and the increased death of tumor cells. And it, and we, we, we, we linked that to a reduction in blood glucose levels. And I thought this was a great observation. And then I realized that Otto Warburg had made similar suggestions in the 1920s and 30s, publishing a seminal review paper in 1956, clearly saying that cancer was a metabolic problem, not a genetic problem. Problem is the field that already spent billions of dollars hunting for genes in cancer. And there's no question that many, many, most cancer cells have genetic mutations. We're not, this is a fact. Cancer cells, most of them have genetic mutations. But the question is, are those mutations responsible for the dysregulated cell growth, or is it some problem with energy metabolism. And of course the geneticists say the, the abnormal energy metabolism is caused by the gene mutations. On the other hand, that's hard to understand how gene mutations could actually influence the amount of ATP energy within the cell, because that was a mitochondrial driven process. So it turns out that you know, I started to look at this and do a deep dive on Warburg's theory. And it turns out that Warburg said all cancers initiate from an insufficiency of oxidative phosphorylation linked or coupled to a compensatory energy through substrate, or I should say fermentation. Fermentation is energy without oxygen. So, and, and we know this, everybody knows this. So, okay, we have gene mutations and we have tumor cells arising or can live without oxygen. And, you know, it's very interesting. I always tell everybody this. If you take cyanide, you know, it's cyanide, it's a very toxic poison. Cyanide kills people very quickly, animals, any, any, any organism. That's using oxidative phosphorylation, breathing air to get energy cyanide blocks that and shuts it down and, and will kill very, very quickly. Can Warburg said a long time ago, and we validated what he said. Cancer cells live in cyanide, can live in the presence of cyanide. That tells me right there, they're not using oxygen for energy and they also grow in the absence of oxygen. This is hypoxia. So cancer cells, well, how are they growing and living? without using oxygen as a source of like we breathe oxygen and, and we generate energy. We exhale CO2, the breakdown products. These damn cancer cells are, are, are living without, without oxygen. That's very interesting. So, and it turns out Warburg said because their mitochondria are defective and people say, Oh no, Warburg was wrong. Most of the field says because cancer cells consume oxygen also. But the problem with the cancer cells, they're taking, consuming oxygen, but they're not using it for energy. This is what, what we found which then throws a stick in the spoke of the field. And then we went back and we found some papers saying they can't find any mutations in some cancer cells. Well, that, that's not consistent with the somatic mutation theory of cancer. So then they said, The field, of course, says, Oh, well, not all mutations are causing cancer. Only the driver mutations cause cancer. These are the really important ones. So new research now is telling us that we have driver mutations and all through our body that never, in cells that never form cancer. So that's inconsistent again with the theory. Every major cancer we've looked at has damage in number, structure and function of mitochondria. That seems to be the commonality. And then you say, well, where did all these mutations come from? And the answer is when oxygen comes into a tumor cell, not using it for energy. They form reactive oxygen species called, these are reactive radicals and they damage DNA, RNA, and proteins. So the mutations that we see in cancer cells that the field is constantly targeting or looking at are all downstream effects. So, We spent billions and billions of dollars in the cancer genome projects with the hope that we would find mutations Causing dysregulated growth and we could target those mutations and therefore bring a new realm to cancer management Well that has been a almost complete failure It hasn't worked. So consequently We persist in treating cancer patients with toxic poisonous chemicals, radiation, and surgical mutilation, because the promise of the genomic theory, the somatic mutation theory being finding targeted mutation has not come to pass. And that's because cancer is not a genetic disease. It's a mitochondrial metabolic. What does that mean? All cancer cells must get energy from. fermentation, which is energy without oxygen. So the question then, what do they, what's driving this fermentation energy? And we and others have found it's glucose and glutamine. The sugar glucose and the amino acid glutamine are both fermented to generate ATP energy for the dysregulated growth. And they can't burn fatty acids or ketone bodies. Cancer cells cannot live on fatty acids or ketone bodies in the absence of glucose and glutamine. So that tells us clearly how to manage cancer without toxicity. Problem is the rest of the world has not opened their eyes or understood what I have just
0613:Simple. You've, you've explained that to me within five minutes and I, I could understand it. It's, it's simple and there's evidence there, and it is you, you know, I feel like the inconsistency you found in the research drove you to seeking answers. But I wanna know why were you examining. Caloric restrictions versus the progression of cancer or the growth of cancer. What, what, what initiated that? Glutamine.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:found, we worked in the field of epilepsy for years and we knew and we knew that ketogenic restricted ketogenic, I was, I showed, the folks that the ketogenic diet was working and kill and Children predominantly because it was lowering blood sugar. And when we were lowering and the kids would eat ketogenic diets and their epilepsy would go away, why did the epilepsy go away? And the answer is because we reduced blood sugar and elevated ketones. And you can see a child that might be managed without having. seizures will drink a glass of sweet orange juice or something like that, and within within 30 minutes, they'll explode into an epileptic seizure and their blood sugar shoots up and then they explode into an epileptic seizure. So it was clear to us that the management of epileptic Epilepsy in children using these ketogenic diets was related to the lowering of glucose and the elevation of ketones. But the mechanism in the brain by which lowering glucose and elevating ketones blocks electrical excitability in parts of the brain. The, the, the molecular mechanisms for that are still not completely known. However, the cancer. We know exactly what's going on. Very close to the understanding more completely than, than epilepsy for sure. When you lower the blood sugar, cancer cells need fermentable fuels. Glucose is a prime fermentable fuel. And therefore you're shutting down one part of their energy metabolism. The other part, which wasn't clear, at the beginning to us how that was working was fermentation of the amino acid glutamine and Warburg knew nothing about that either. And therefore he ran into a lot of controversy and a lot of misunderstanding because he couldn't figure out where some of these cancer cells, even though your lower blood sugar really low, they were still hanging on and still growing. Why, where are they getting their energy from? And he didn't know about the glutamine issue. And now we were the ones everybody knew glutamine. They all thought it was respired. We're now showing that the glutamine is fermented, which means getting glutamine, the energy out of glutamine without oxygen. That's the big breakthrough in the cancer field, as far as I can see which Warburg did not know about. And right now the 90, 95 or 99 percent of the cancer field also cannot understand that they either can't understand it or they can't believe it. Yet we have evidence now, we just published a major paper on this, and my, my colleague Christos Xenopoulos from Semmelweis University, he has documented this in cancer cells. So we have clearly now, we know how cancer cells are getting energy for the dysregulated growth. So all we have to do is target the availability of the energy and you can shut down these tumor cells for the most part.
0613:We'll talk about glutamine there in a second. I want to break this down for our listeners here. I want to talk about metabolic, this metabolic theory that we have here. Obviously there's a lot of evidence showing that you know, showing a lot of promise. A lot of people are talking about how you know, this. is a life changing transformation, right? Just, just reading your book, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease, you outlined the data on that book from 2013, 2017, the percentage increase for cancer deaths is greater than the increase for newer cases. And you call it a failure of, of monumental proportions. I mean, something is off. And, and You, you found a way to, to finally you know, seek answers and, you know, basically you're seeing we're losing the war and your research shows that, that there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the nature of the disease is. Right. And you're basically saying we got it all wrong. What cancer really originates from and what can be argued about it is being the reason why it's only getting worse. But I wanted to ask you, how did they get it wrong? If the research seems conclusive of the evidence, that is, it's a genetic disease, right? It's when you read the research papers, it seems very conclusive, right? What made you challenge the conventional wisdom there? I know we talked about you starting from, you know, your studies with epilepsy, right? And, and, and you connected that to how our understanding of where cancer originates from. Did they get it or wrong? I, I wanna, I wanna know their perspective and how are they not open to this idea? Mm-Hmm.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Well, those are very important questions. And they go to the core of science of how science advances. And I look at it very similar to the Copernican revolution. When for 1800 years scientists and astronomers thought that the earth was the center of the, of the solar system. The work of Aristotle and Ptolemy and other astronomers at that time could not completely explain how planets and celestial bodies, their, their, their motion through the heavens was always challenged. And the field and the systems. Kept doing more and more studies to try to better, better calculate how, how heavenly bodies were moving. But there was always some problem that could not explain clearly how everything was moving. But they persisted and persisted and persisted for 1800 years in doing these experiments that were never able to completely define this until until Copernicus realized that if we, if the earth is in fact moving and travels around the sun together with the other planets, you could actually explain the mathematics and you could explain the movement. We're in a very similar situation here with cancer. The field has become indoctrinated and dogmatic in, and believing that, that mutations are the origin of the dysregulated cell growth. The strongest evidence to say that cannot be the case is the nuclear mitochondrial transfer experiments, which I've published in my book. And I wrote a paper on this specifically showing the field that if you take the nucleus out of a tumor cell. that has all the mutations in the nucleus that are supposed to drive the dysregulated growth, and you transplant that nucleus into a, into a non cancerous cytoplasm containing normal mitochondria, the, the results, the offspring, of those cells have normal growth. They don't have dysregulated growth, even though the mutations in the nucleus still there are there. On the other hand, if you, if you take the normal, the nucleus from a normal cell and transplanted to a cytoplasm, a tumor cell cytoplasm with abnormal mitochondria, the offspring of those, is is neoplastic dysregulated cell growth. So clearly the origin of dysregulated cell growth resides in the cytoplasm with the mitochondria, not in the nucleus with the genetic mutations. That's the strongest evidence. That's the same power of, of Copernicus putting putting the sun in the center of the solar system. It's, it's, it's that powerful. Now, of course, what happened when Copernicus did that? Galileo immediately started to use the telescope to confirm Copernicus's theory and was house arrested. Giordano Bruno an Italian scientist was burned at the stake for challenging the Catholic Church's dominance over what we should think and what we should know getting back. So how is it possible that the cancer field, a multi billion dollar industry, fails to recognize the that their efforts to manage cancer is incomplete because they think it's a genetic disease. They're locked into the same dogmatic view. How could they all be wrong? Confirmation bias says they not be wrong. If they, if the federal governments of the United States, Canada, Germany, Japan, England, all of these guys are saying cancer is a genetic disease. Who the hell am I to come and challenge them? All I did was look at the data. I let them disprove what I'm saying. It's not me. They have to try to disprove the evidence that's clearly shows that cancer cannot be a genetic disease. Yes, cancer cells have mutations. We all know that, but they are not the cause. They're the effect of the damage to the respiration. So once you realize, then you can move forward. with therapies and treatments that are non toxic and powerfully effective to manage it. Because you're now doing what, they can't live without fermentation fuels. That's the, they can't live without that. So you just have to target that. And there's no clinical trials, there's no treatment programs or any of this that's testing what I'm saying. Because who's going to test this, the pharmaceutical companies that are making billions of dollars on drugs based on the somatic mutation theory, all those immunotherapies, who's going to test this? The hospitals, they're locked into making great revenue from radiation and chemo and all this other stuff. Who wants to test a theory that could potentially reduce revenue generation for the majority of these institutions, grants to the, to the scientists from the the, so what we're saying. So you have to, what we did, what people do in the past is you ignore what I'm saying. That's the easiest thing. And the simple, oh, it hasn't been repeated. It has been repeated numerous times. You should choose not to look at the data. Oh, and no clinical trials. Oh, why don't you do a clinical trial after you train, train the folks? Oh, we can't do that. Everything is, we can't, we can't. We can't, we can't, okay? So when you get the deniers, and the so news sayers, and all those other guys out of the way, those guys just gotta out of the way, let us move forward and we'll be able to I'm not saying we can cure cancer, all I'm saying is we can provide an outcome far superior to what people are currently experiencing today.
0613:And it's, and, and since you've compared it to, you know, 18 hundreds you know, research, it's bound to change. Right. And you alluded to the fact that it is, it, it all comes back to the lack of knowledge on the biology of the disease. Right. From your,
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Well, it's not that they have a lack of knowledge. These guys are well educated folks. They're very smart. They just are working under an incorrect theory, okay? That's the key. It's the theory that drives the understanding of the biology. If the theory says that cancer is a genetic disease, you're focusing on gene mutations. You're not focusing on mitochondrial insufficiency of oxidative phosphorylation or the dependency of those cells on the two fuels. And when I tell folks that, why don't you take away the glucose and glutamine in the media that you're studying? They say, we can't do that because the cancer cells will all die. And I said, yeah, that's the, that's the, that's the whole thing. You won't have anything to study if you take away the two fuels that drive the dysregulated growth. Now you have to play this in the, in the living system, of course. And we've worked out the press pulse therapeutic strategy, which adopts that concept to treating cancer patients. So, and it's working on the, on the people that are doing it in the isolated places where they do it. Most of them, not all of them, most of them get do much better. The cancer goes either becomes much reduced in rate of growth or it goes into some sort of stabilized state and sometimes might go away at least for the, the, the, the short term. But we've, people are there. I don't know how many years Pablo Kelly's out 10 years now. His cancer never went away. a brain tumor. He's had three surgeries on a glioblastoma, but he's still alive. You know, you don't usually live but a, a year or two with that. And he's out 10 years now. So did it, was he cured now? Is he living a hell of a lot longer than everybody else? You're damn right. He is.
0613:And it's a classic, they're not looking in the right place. Right. From your research on the cancer as a metabolic disease, in your view of this disease, where it originates as a metabolic dysfunction, how does that lead to the development and progression of cancer now starting as a metabolic dysfunction, where, where does that, Now we've identified where it's actually originating, but how does that lead to the development of cancer?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Yeah. So let's look at the the provocative agents that we all know are car, are carcinogenic, the term chemical carcinogen. Why do they call a chemical a carcinogen? Because it causes cancer. Okay. Asbestos. And we found you know, various tetra, these various chemicals, you know, we have, we call them carcinogens. So I went through all the list of carcinogens and every one of them damages the structure and function of the mitochondria, the organelle responsible for generating energy through oxygen. So In the case of a carcinogen, what happens is the energy coming out of the mitochondria is compromised. And in order for the cell to stay alive, it has to compensate with upregulation of substrate level phosphorylation, which is an alternative source to oxidative phosphorylation. I don't want to get too complicated on this. It's just a fermentation metabolism. Okay. Now what is What controls the differentiated quiescent state? Suppose, suppose you have your liver, for example we'll use that as an organ and it's exposed to chemical carcinogen. And all of a sudden you see a population of cells growing out of control in the liver. What, what caused those normal liver cuboidal cells, hepatocytes, let's say, to grow? to start growing out of control. So when you look at them, you find that the mitochondria are dysfunctional and damaged and they're fermenting. Okay. How did that happen? How did the chemical carcinogen cause a bunch of cells in the liver to start growing out of control? So what is the organelle that controls the stable and differentiated state? And it's the mitochondria. The mitochondria control the cell cycle. So the normal a metabolically stable homeostatic state of the cell is controlled by the mitochondria. That organelle controls the cell cycle. Now, when that organelle becomes corrupted, the cell falls back on a fermentation mechanism, fermentation. Now you have to realize this is why you need to know evolutionary biology. Before oxygen came into the, onto the atmosphere of our planet was completely a noxious. There was no oxygen in the original beginning earth of the earth two, two and a half billion years ago, two and a half billion years ago, we had cells that were developed that were growing on the planet. Some of these organisms, single, single cell organisms, everybody was fermenting. All those cells were fermenting and they were growing in a dysregulated way dysregulated cell growth with a fermentation metabolism. The cancer cell. is going back and expressing the same characteristics as these original cells that existed on a fermentation. Why are they growing out of control? Because the organelle that's supposed to control their growth now is dysfunctional and the cells fall back on these ancient pathways of fermentation. And when you look at cancer, every major cancer is throwing out massive amounts of lactic acid and succinic acid, the waste products of a fermentation metabolism becomes clear. So these cells are doing nothing more than falling back on ancient metabolic pathways that existed before oxygen came into the atmosphere. These pathways exist in all of our cells, but they're very subdued. They don't play a big role because we're breathing air. But but when we stop, when we, when our mitochondria become chronically damaged, not acutely damaged, acutely damaged, the cell will die. You'll never get a cancer cell. But if it, but if the cell has the opportunity to upregulate fermentation, it loses growth control and starts growing out of control. Now that's chemical carcinogen. What about oncogenic viruses like hepatitis virus, papillomaviruses? They do the same thing. They chronically damage mitochondria. What about radiation? Radiation we know can cause cancer. Well, that chronically damages mitochondria. What about intermittent hypoxia? What about these things. What about the BRCA1? What about those written genetic risk factors that we hear about? P53, BRCA1. These are inherited risk factors, right? So they damage the structure and function of the mitochondria leading to dysregulated cell growth either in the breast or some other organ, right? The liver h Uh, BRCA1 can be the breast cancer mutations that you hear about, but they damage mitochondria. If the BRCA1 doesn't damage mitochondria, that, that person can have the mutation and never develop, never develop the cancer. It only happens when the mitochondria develop. Cancer is very unlikely to occur if the mitochondria can remain functional and, and normal. Let's put it that way. So, normal, normal generation of energy through oxidative phosphorylation is normal functioning mitochondria. When that becomes compromised, they start to ferment and they lose their control, their growth control, and they grow out of control. And what's the energy? It's a fermentation energy. What do you mean? They're using, they're using ancient pathways. Well, what's driving those ancient pathways? Glucose and glutamine. How do you know? Because we tested it all, we interrogated all the other fuels, and glucose and glutamine are the two prime fuels that are responsible for the dysregulated growth. Why? Because the mitochondria are no longer functional, so therefore they must ferment. So this is, and so you feed them ketones and feed them fatty acids, they can't use ketones in fatty acids. Why? Because these fuels are non, they can't be used for fermentation. They're non fermentable fuels. But the normal cells in the body can. can burn ketones and fatty acids. So we just transition the whole body. to ketones and fatty acids, tumor cells can't use them, and then you come in and you target the glucose and glutamine simultaneously and start slaughtering these tumor cells without toxicity. How does that sound?
0613:Good. I mean, two more cells cannot use ketones, right? But are actually preferred by the healthy cells. So you're killing off cancers and healing the body at the same time, basically.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:That's right. That's right. And when you use metabolic ketogenic metabolic therapies you not only get rid of we, the people that we see oftentimes have type two diabetes, they're obese, they have all kinds of other hypertension and all this kind of stuff. A lot of that stuff goes away. along with the cancer because they're all suffering from a chronic problem, the chronic energy disruption. And in some kinds that causes dysregulated cell growth. Other times it causes type two diabetes, hypertension, all these cardiovascular disease dementia. It's unbelievable. So as long as you can keep your mitochondria healthy you can avoid a lot of the chronic diseases. The pro the problem is our diet and lifestyle today. Often stand in the way is an obstacle to prevent us from getting cancer in the first place. So, we, we, but you know, most people want to know, what are you going to do for me after I get the tumor? I know I should have been a good boy and a good girl and I should have never done what I did, but I got cancer. Now, what are you going to do for me now? We have to target the glucose and glutamine and transition your whole body off to therapeutic ketosis.
0613:Yeah. Yeah. So that that's, so you're saying like cancer feeds on glucose, right? The idea which is one of the reasons why extended fasting has become so popular with cancer patients as an alternative treatment to how about, how about DNA mutation? How does that fit in the, in the theory?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Yeah. Well, when the when the cancer, if the mitochondria become defective and they take in oxygen, the oxygen forms rat Ross reactive oxygen species. These are hydroxide ions super oxides. These are damaging radicals. They cause the mutations in the DNA. So the mutations in the DNA, what is the provocative agent causing the mutations in the DNA? And that's ROS. ROS are carcinogenic and mutagenic. Hundreds and hundreds of papers in the scientific literature showing that ROS, R O S, are carcinogenic and mutagenic. Okay? Carcinogenic and mutagenic. So where, and that produce, where do they produce? They produce in damaged respiration, damaged mitochondria. Disfunction of mitochondria that are insufficient in oxidative phosphorylation form these RAS. The RAS then damage the DNA causing the mutations that everybody's all excited to see and chase. But they're all downstream effects of the damage to the oxidative phosphorylation. So, so, and how are the cells growing? They're growing like crazy with all these DNA mutations. So, so what's driving there anyway? How are they growing with all these mutations? Because they're fermenting. What are they fermenting? Glucose and glutamine. Why don't we take away the glucose and glutamine and we can kill the cell regardless of the mutations they have in the nucleus. And that's exactly what we see.
0613:Okay. So we know how to take away glucose. How do we take away glutamine?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:We have to use, we have to be very strategic. Because glutamine is, is, is considered a non essential amino acid, but for the cancer cell in the immune system, it's an essential amino acid. Yes. So you have to be strategic. Dosage, timing, and schedule. You can't go in there as an ignoramus, as a bull in a china shop and just try to take away everybody's glutamine. You strategically target it and then pull off. Target and pull off while you keep the choke hold on the glucose. We don't need glucose glucose, but we can replace glucose with ketone bodies There was an interesting study some years ago by by the scientist Drenic. He took morbidly obese guys And he fasted them for 21 days Where their blood sugar went down and their ketones went way up And then he injected them with insulin. Can you believe this? So whatever little glucose was in their bloodstream, it kind of disappeared. It went down to nine milligrams per decaliter, which everybody would consider death. 0. 5 millimole. I mean, this is like barely detectable. These guys are walking around fine. No cognitive decline no abnormalities. And, and, and it was because the brain and the rest of the cells switched over to fatty acids and ketone brain burns, fatty ketone bodies, liver can burn fatty acids. So it shows you how low you can get glucose. And then the normal cells of your body will take up what little glucose might be available, starving, indirectly starving the cancer cell of its glucose. And that, but it can still hang on because it might suck down a little bit and ferment a little bit of the glutamine. So then you just pulse the glutamine with glutamine drugs and some of these drugs are parasites Antiparasite drugs turns out that the cancer cells and the parasites use a common metabolic pathway So if you kill parasites, you can kill cancer cells with the same drug. It's not this stuff is unbelievable I mean if the field knew what I just said we would be dropping the death rate of these cancer patients Significantly within a very short period of time. The problem is what I just told you either doesn't want to be recognized, it's too complicated, or I don't want to know about it. You know who wants to know about what I'm saying? The cancer patients want to know what I'm saying. But you go to the oncologists and they have never heard of anything that I had just said, and many of them don't even want to know about it. They think glucose has no role in cancer. They think fasting has no role in cancer. Never heard of glutamine issue. They, they say, oh no, eat infomel, eat candy and all this kind of stuff. I mean, this tells you how far out of, out of, out of, out of touch The oncology community is and these are good folks. They've just been they've just been trained the wrong way They want to help their patients not hurt their patients, but they've just Haven't had this information in their training and once they do we're going to see a monster change very rapid change in the outcome
0613:I mean, you did call it the future of cancer treatment.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Oh, absolutely Absolutely. It will be the new standard of care. It's just, it's just has to be understood. And your job is to sometimes these podcasts push the information out where, where will the change come? That's the question. The change must come from the, from the patients themselves. The change must come from the population of people. that suffer the greatest from this. It's not going to come, I don't think, from the top medical schools or the pharmaceutical industry because they have too much, they're comfortable, they're very comfortable in their current status. And I get calls from dozens and dozens of physicians who actually get cancer. and they're stage four. They're, they're coming to me to get information on how to manage their cancer because radiation and chemo and surgical mutilations, they, they certainly can help some people. But even if you survive that you pay a significant price, your body has been poisoned and radiated and mutilated. And your quality of life is, you know, sometimes not always optimal after surviving toxic treatments, whereas metabolic therapy can eliminate a lot of that. And the other thing you have to realize we don't throw out all the standards of care. We're finding that these chemicals, these chemotherapies, maybe even immunotherapies and radiation therapy have a much greater therapeutic benefit when, when the patient is in nutritional ketosis. So even getting the patient into, not only will the patient start killing their tumor cells, they'll be much more responsive to the chemicals and treatments of the standard of care. So it's going to be a hybrid transformation as we move from, from, from an incorrect theory to the correct theory of what the disorder actually is.
0613:so what does that look like? A hybrid treatment. So we combine the drugs that target glutamine and then a ketogenic therapy, which eliminates
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Yeah, yeah. What we do is we bring patients in and we do a comprehensive blood work. We find out how, how close or far they are from optimal physiological state, what we call optimal metabolic state. We have to bring that patient back into some level of metabolic homeostasis. And once they're in this metabolic, and that could be eating Zero carb diets for a week or two. You can start to see the, the glucose go down, the ketones go up, the patient generally gets healthier. Then you bring in either sta me standards of care some chemicals that are currently being used, or you can use small dose of radiation depending on the type of tumor that it is. Everything responds better when the patient is in nutritional ketosis. And then you can bring in the glutamine targeting drugs. And that has to be. Known. We, we, dosage timing and scheduling have to be optimized. And that's what we're doing here in my lab is we're optimizing dosage timing and scheduling for the different diet drug combos, which will eventually be the standard of care. Patients are going to have to know this. There's no pill. that will be able to do what metabolic therapy can do, but a pill can work remarkably well with metabolic therapy. So it has to be a combination because don't forget it took a long time for that person to go from a state of health to ill health and having cancer. So you're, you're to, to, to turn that whole system around requires some effort on the part of the patient. So the patients themselves have to play a role. a significant role in the transformation of their body from ill health to health. So they, in order to have success, the patient must play a significant role in this process. They're no longer sitting there as bystanders for being treated with chemicals and radiation. With metabolic therapy, a large part of the success depends on the motivation of the patient.
0613:That's right. That's right. So there are a lot of testimonials from countless. You know, success stories, and you, you already alluded to one, any specific success stories another success story that come in mind you might share with us today.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Well, we have Maggie Jones who's writing the cancer revolution. Doctor got documentary. They're producing a professional documentary. Brad Jones, the husband, Brad is a professional movie maker in the documentary field, and they're collecting dozens and dozens of for terminal cancer patients and having every one of those stories told by the, by those patients. And you know, all of them in one way or another lowered glucose and elevated ketones. And then they did a variety of other things with certain supplements that work together other dietary things. So they're collecting all of the, all of these testimonials, if you will, and anecdotes. And there's and we have to have trained, but you can't start doing large clinical trials without having a knowledgeable practitioner running the trial. And so, so right now we're just collecting person after person, after person, after person, and they have brain cancer, colon cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer pancreatic cancer. We've written on that prostate cancer, bladder cancer melanomas. blood cancer, the whole range of blood cancers. We're, we're, we're seeing the same overall outcome with a variety of cancers because, because all major cancers have to rely on fermentation for growth. So the same therapeutic strategy is effective against all the major cancers because all major cancers are similar. They need fermentation for growth. And we, and how do we know that? I, I published a major paper showing that all major cancers have abnormalities in the number structure and function of the mitochondria. That means they all have to ferment. Therefore, they're all dependent on glucose and glutamine to some extent. So this then becomes a clear strategy for moving the entire field forward in the correct direction, because it's based on the correct theory of what the nature of the disease is.
0613:I mean, with this type of promise, and we're seeing a lot of results here, it's not a war between science and cancer. I think it's more of the medical community accepting the shift away from conventional toxic treatments towards metabolic therapies. Would you agree? It's I think it's, it's, it's more, more that than just cancer. I mean, if, if we're seeing a lot of great results with individuals with cancer even in later stages of cancer, get you know, reversing or even, you know, healing from that. Isn't that the war is just, if they just accept a lot of people will be saved. Like, that's what I feel.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:No, you're 100 percent correct. So now, here's a, here's a a chore for you. Go, you're in Toronto, okay? They have a large cancer center in Toronto. Why don't you go down and ask the guys there, how come you're not doing metabolic therapy? And you'll get, there's no evidence to support that. Well, did they read the scientific literature showing all the detailed experimental experiments that. We and others have done to support that. No, I haven't read it. Well, what makes you say that there's no evidence to support it? Because if it's people will they say well If it was really important, I would have heard about it. Well, you are hearing about it. You're doing nothing about it I mean, it's just i'm telling you about it
0613:Okay.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:And yeah, well, I don't believe you okay, he doesn't believe me Well, did you read the scientific evidence to support now? I don't have time to read that Okay, you don't have time to read it. You don't want to believe me because everybody says it's a genetic disease and and they said well the whole the whole hospital system would have to change Yes, and well, we can't do that because we're we can't every you'll always lie. We can't we can't we can't no, they're not familiar with the scientific evidence. No, they they they they never heard that glucose drives dysregulated cell growth they know oh no diet can help cancer just take my radiation and chemo And and this is the way everybody does and they just walk like sheep You Dozens and dozens of folks walking like sheep into these institutions. Yes, a lot of them survive, of course, a lot of them die. In the United States, we have over, almost 1, 700 people a day dying from cancer. That's 70 people an hour. It's a worldwide epidemic of cancer. And everybody keeps radiation and chemo and surgical mutilation. Radiation, chemo, surgical mutilation, and they do immunotherapies all based on the somatic mutation theory. And if the immuno, if the, if the patient doesn't have the right epitope on the surface of the tumor cell, some of those immunotherapies now rip out your kidneys and liver and you die a horrific death from adverse effects from the immunotherapy. And they tell us that they're not hiding this. When you see the commercials, they spend more time telling you how, how the therapy will kill you rather than how it's gonna help you. I mean, they're not hiding it. We're all listening. And then when they get cancer, they all run down and take the same stuff. And it's just like, because I mean, so you tell me what's going on with this picture.
0613:I mean, all I want to do is to, you know, help that one person. And we talked about this. And I mean, if someone is listening right now, who wants to learn more about this Dr. Thomas Seyfried, where can they go and get more information about this?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:A lot of our papers are, are open access. So you just put my name in and say, what did he publish? Give me publications. And you can read it yourself. So the press pulse metabolic air for anybody who has a computer and Google can get the papers that I've published and then they read them Oh, wow. This is really interesting. How come nobody's talking about this? And then and it's cited a lot too. I it's because the system is so entrenched and so dogmatic and comfortable in, in what they do. It's very hard to change the attitudes and the understanding. I mean, if the NIH is telling us that cancer is a genetic disease, and if you look, it says 100 different diseases. Yeah. They have 100 different cancers all with a different name, but all requiring fermentation to grow. All those cancers need glucose and glutamine. I don't care what you call them. It's a blood cancer, colon cancer, bladder cancer, five different kinds of brain cancers. They all ferment. How do I know that? Because we did all the studies. We looked at all the evidence in the literature and put it all together in these big papers. And So if you don't read the papers, and you, and you can't understand what I'm saying, then the status quo will persist. It's only when the people get outraged, and they start beating the doors down and saying, I want metabolic therapy. And if you can't give it to us, and we're writing a treatment protocol as we speak. A really detailed treatment protocol for cancer. We have to publish that. So we're going to start up setting up clinics. We're going to start training certifying physicians to be certified as a meta, as a person who can deliver metabolic therapy. So they've been trained and, and, and shown what to do and how to do it. And now they can go into the, into the communities and set up clinics treating cancer patients with metabolic therapy. So a lot of the parts to do this are not in place. We don't have trained physicians to do this. A lot of the physicians don't want to be trained, they want to know about it. But once you get certified, then you can open up clinics and you can start treating patients the
0613:But how do we help someone now? Someone with cancer now? How do we help them now?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:well, they, they then the, a lot of the burden falls on them. And, and I, I give kits out to the folks that just has educational information as I, I'm not a physician. I cannot tell anybody what to do or how to do it, but it can only give them educational material with some names of people. And then they,
0613:Let's do that.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Like, Yeah, and, and, and they, and they're, and all I asked them to do is make donations to the Boston College Cancer Fund on my website or, or to Travis Christofferson's foundation because all of our research is supported by philanthropy and private foundations. And the more funds that we get, we, the more people we can train, the more experiments we can do to convince the skeptics that cancer is primarily a mitochondrial metabolic disease. So the evidence, the truth. Just has to build and build and build and build so you work on one side You work the science out on the other side you get as you call them Anecdote after anecdote fluke after fluke after fluke after anecdote after anecdote and it works on dogs, too It's unbelievable the dog dogs are riddled with cancer And we have a big paper on, on removal of a mass, a mass cell tumor on the face of a pit bull. And that's published in an open access journal. So, why should the dogs be managed and not people? So, you know, it's, it's, it's the whole, the whole thing here. It's a, it's a work, it's a, it's a momentum that's growing and growing and growing and eventually will become the standard of care. There's no question about it because it's based on the correct theory of what the nature of the disease is. And when you have the right theory, Just like the heavens, we now, we have telescopes revolving around the earth a million miles, the web telescope. That would have not been possible if we considered the earth as the center of the solar system. It only became clear when the earth was another planet revolving around the sun and then the advance in astronomy and these kinds of fields advance. Same thing will happen in the cancer field and in the chronic disease field. It's just a matter of time. I have no doubt about it. It's just that the word, it's just the
0613:Yeah. The policymakers just have to, have to get old. Right. So then you come in.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:well, you know, but you know, it's tragic about that, what I feel about that, and that's what Max Planck said, you're, you can't move a new field theory forward until the guys supporting the old theory die off. But right now we're sacrificing 1700 people a day for their, for their resistance. I mean, it's not, it's not, you know, nobody needed to die if you didn't, if you didn't, if you thought the sun of the earth
0613:If we could do it
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:it wasn't, it didn't. So, so anyway, this is the, people want to live. They're going to have to recognize that the cancer is a mitochondrial metabolic disorder, and a lot of the treatment rests on their shoulder. But they have to have a practice, they have to have certified practitioners that can help and guide them. And right now we get you go down, and that's one of the things that's so tragic. I tell all these folks, then they go down to their, all excited to go down to their local oncologist and they get slapped down. They said there's no evidence to support any of this metabolic stuff, diets don't work, you know, fasting should never be done. I mean, what are they? And that's only because they lack knowledge. It's not because they're bad people. They just don't know. Once they know, then they become totally embarrassed and they say, Oh, how the hell did we not know this? Well, I'm telling you now you should know it. And the papers are there published and you can read them.
0613:Absolutely. You know, if if I don't do another interview, I will be happy with this interview. I'm done. I mean, there, I mean, cancer, again, is such a devastating word. You know, we talked about how the deaths per year that we see, It's it's such a scary, scary for people. That's why I really want to get to help these people that are struggling, know somebody that's struggling, you know, point them in the right direction. Where can people find you? Maybe connect with you follow you and follow the research. How, how can they connect with you?
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Well, I think we've done a lot of YouTube videos for sure. So people are starting to hear about it. And again, they, they, they Instagram, you know, there's an Instagram account. One of my students, I've got students now doing podcasts in my, they're, they're actually doing some nice podcasts. You know, it's a, it's a work in progress. We're training right now, as we speak, there's a big conference going on and in Switzerland Josephine Barbarino is, Is starting to set up a place to train trained clinicians. It's a happening event. It's going to be very exciting. But I think right now you can see all the work we've done on open access. Just go to look at all my publications on open access, become familiar with the evidence, and then start putting pressure on the health care providers to say, why are we not doing metabolic therapy and supporting the research that we do and it will eventually benefit all of huma all mankind, everybody, every there's no country that has no cancer. Now there are some actually primitive peoples living according to their traditional ways, cancer is much less. They're not, they're not it's diet and lifestyle once you realize that, that are, we're not getting enough exercise, we're under stress, we're eating poorly, highly processed foods. All of these impact negatively on the mitochondria in some organ and some tissue leading to dysregulated cell growth or obesity or type two diabetes or cardiovascular disease or hypertension or high blood, all of these things, Alzheimer's disease. So again we put them all into the chronic disease and you're 100 percent correct. Cancer is a frightening disease only because to treat it you have to be poisoned, irradiated, and mutilated. And people don't want that. They want to know that there's another way that we can manage this without having to suffer like that. And they, and if that doesn't kill you, eventually the cancer will kill you. But 50 percent of the people are dying from the treatments rather than from the disease. It's a terrible tragedy. So people have to know, That things can get a lot better once they understand that can't the new, the new theory that cancer is a mitochondrial metabolic disorder.
0613:You know, even though this podcast, this podcast recording is, there's a lot of passion here because we, we believe that we have to change, you know, the system, right. But there's a, this episode is offering a lot of hope. For a lot of people. And I, I feel like, you know, if we can just help that one person, you know, spread that word and we're doing the same, we spread that word, you know, support Dr. Thomas Seyfried's foundation. And we'll link everything down in the description box below so you guys can support Dr. Seyfried's
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Also, there's one, there's one more thing. I wrote only one book. I never wrote any of those summaries. People should need to know that some of those are pirated things. They say I wrote them. I did not write them. So you have to realize the book that you mentioned was the only book. It's a, it's, it's not cheap. It's not 19 or any of this stuff. I feel really bad when people say, Oh, I got your, I got your summary and I didn't, it was full of misspellings and it didn't wasn't clear. I didn't write that. I wrote only one book and people should know that. Because they're all buying these little review things that aren't, that I, that are not written in the quality of writing that I have. So, it's kind of just, it's kind of just put together. So yeah, so this is yeah, we're working on this and we're not going to go away any time soon. And we're going to push it until the, until the system changes.
0613:Yeah. Obviously I'll do the same. We'll link the book down in the description box below so you guys can, can check it out by, by your book. Cancer is a metabolic disease. Is that right? Let me see.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:It's cancer as a, as a, as a metabolic on the origin management
0613:is a metabolic disease. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We'll link it down in the description box below. So you guys get that book,
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:John Wiley, John Wiley Press.
0613:get that copy, get that copy. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Thomas C. Freed for coming on and sharing your story and sharing your knowledge here with us today. I believe that. We are going to help that one person, right? And if you have a chance to check out Dr. Thomas Seafried's book, go ahead and check it out. Get your, get your own copy, learn about the metabolic disease you know, mechanism, you know, educate yourself about it. You know, there's nothing better than, you know, getting some more information about this and so you can empower yourself with that knowledge. Dr. Thomas Seafried. Thank you so much.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Oh, thank you very much. Nice to be here.
0613:Awesome. Thank you. Bye bye.
squadcaster-a27a_1_06-13-2024_111142:Okay. Take it easy.
