Lead Culture with Jenni Catron

217 | Creating Life Margin: Leadership Insights with Tali Kauflin and Jenni Catron

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Have you ever felt like you are constantly running on fumes, with no time or energy for yourself?  Tali Kauflin, the Executive Director of Accounts and Services for Clever, joins us to shed light on this critical issue and guide us on the path to creating the much-needed margin in our lives. She combines her professional expertise with personal experiences as a leader, a pastor's wife, and a mother of five to give us practical advice on how to identify and respond to signs of a lack of margin.

Tali's passion for the concept of margin is rooted in her own journey of surviving intense life seasons. She emphasizes the importance of self-care and reflection, revealing how these practices can help us view our limits not as a hindrance, but as a gift. By sharing her story of thriving in leadership despite numerous challenges, Tali encourages us to create our own margin, even when life seems overwhelmingly full.

As leaders, we often feel the need to do everything ourselves. But Tali encourages us to empower our teams, cultivate trust and responsibility, and identify tasks that only we can do. This intentional positioning allows us to create the necessary margin in our roles. If you're feeling overwhelmed, Tali's insightful conversation is a must-listen. She offers an encouraging word to other leaders to seek assistance when needed and shares how Clever's services can aid in this journey. Let's take this opportunity to learn from Tali and start creating the margin we need in our lives today!

About Clever:
Busy leaders, meet Clever—a game-changing agency for all your marketing, creative, and communication needs. Their fractional workforce offers expertise as well as on-demand and ongoing project support for all of your graphic design, marketing, website, and production needs. We trust Clever with our website and they exceeded our expectations and feel like an extension of our team. With flexible 30-day contracts and exceptional results, Clever delivers success without the high cost of full-time hires.
Embrace more margin and less chaos—hire Clever today at weareclever.com or call or text 404-585-1953.

Culture Conference 2023
Culture Conference is back and registration is now open. Mark your calendar for August 10th and register you, your team, every leader you know to join us. 

Culture Conference is a free digital conference designed to help you build thriving teams, cultivate inspiring workplaces, and achieve your mission. We have an amazing speaker line up, including Pat Gelsinger, CEO of Intel; Valorie Burton, Life Strategist and Bestselling Author, Josh Howerton, Senior Pastor of Lakepointe Church and New York Times bestselling author Jon Acuff - just to name a few!

Join us for a one-day digital conference where you’ll hear from today’s top leaders about how you can build a thriving team, cultivate an inspiring workplace, and achieve your mission.
Register for free to view the live-streamed event, or upgrade to the Culture Conference All-Access Pass.

Register at cultureconference.org

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Jenni Catron:

Hey everyone, I'm your host, Jenni Catron, and this is the Lead Culture Podcast, where I coach you to lead yourself well so you can lead others better. My team and I at 4SightGroup Group are committed to building confident leaders, extraordinary teams and thriving cultures. Each week, we'll take a deep dive into a leadership or culture topic that will give you the tools you need to lead with clarity and confidence and build a thriving team. Well, guys, we are just days away from Culture Conference and we are so excited. Here behind the scenes we are doing all the things to be ready for you to join us for Culture Conference on August 10th. Now I hope those of you who are regular listeners, you're like Jen we've already registered. We got that taken care of. But if you're new or if you've just been slackened a little bit and you haven't quite gone to get registered, go to cultureconference. org and make sure you are registered.

Jenni Catron:

Culture Conference is a free digital conference designed to help you build thriving teams, cultivate inspiring workplaces and achieve your mission. Now, this year, as every year, we have an amazing speaker lineup. We're going to hear from Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of Intel, Valerie Burton, a life strategist and bestselling author, Josh Howerton, the senior pastor of Lake Point Church, New York Times bestselling author John Acuff, my great friend Annie Downs, and so many more. So, cultureconference. org, that's where you need to go. Get registered because it's free to you, because of amazing sponsors like our friends at Clever. And so today you're going to hear from Tali , who is the executive director of Accounts and Services for Clever. Now, before I tell you about Tali, I want to tell you about Clever. Clever is designed for busy leaders. They are a game-changing agency for all your marketing, creative and communication needs. Their fractional workforce offers expertise as well as on-demand and ongoing project support for all of your graphic design, marketing, website and production needs. Now we have worked with Clever for, I think, going on three years, and they help us with all of our website stuff. They help us with all of our production stuff, including producing culture conference, and so they really do feel like an extension of our team. And with flexible 30-day contracts and exceptional results, Clever delivers success without the high cost of full-time hires. And so, guys, I want to encourage you to go check out Clever. Embrace more margin and less chaos by reaching out to Clever at WeAreClever. com, or you can call or text the number 404-585-1953. So go to WeAreClever. com or call or text 404-585-1953.

Jenni Catron:

All right, well, you are going to hear from Tali, who is the executive director at Clever, and we have just a phenomenal conversation about this idea of margin, about the importance of margin and how to create margin. Now, in addition to her role overseeing a team of 70 at Clever, Tali is a pastor's wife. She is a mom of five kids, she's a church planter, a Bible teacher, like she lives a very busy and full life. She also is going to be one of our speakers for Culture Conference. So today you get just a little sneak peek at this topic of margin that she's going to be talking about, and so I love this conversation with Tali.

Jenni Catron:

She digs into some of the indicators that we're lacking margin, like what does it look like when we're lacking margin? We probably could rattle things off right, because all of us need more margin in our lives, but she gives us a little more of a hint of what are some of those indicators that let us know we're lacking margin. She talks about moving from reactive to intentional. A lot of times we've talked on the podcast about moving from reactive to proactive. I love how she says move from reactive to intentional. We talk about seeing our limits as a gift. That one, I'll step on some toes a bit. And then this was really fascinating. She talks about what humility has to do with the concept of margin. So, guys, here is my conversation with Tali . Well, Tali, so fun to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining me today.

Tali Kauflin:

Thanks for having me.

Jenni Catron:

Well and I have to kick off this episode by saying thank you, and Clever, for sponsoring Culture Conference. So this episode is going to air right before a culture conference starts, so the timing is perfect and we're really grateful that you guys not only sponsor the event but also produce the event. So thanks for that. We're excited about it.

Tali Kauflin:

Oh, you're so welcome. We really believe in what culture conference does and are excited to just be a sponsor and a partner in this exciting conference coming up. Really soon.

Jenni Catron:

I know it's pretty exciting, well, and you guys have been a part of it from the beginning with us, and so it's fun to have you as a sponsor again and get to dive into this world together. But I want to dig into your world a little bit, your life as a leader, learn a little bit more about who you are, and one of the topics that you're going to be speaking on this in culture conference and I thought you know what we need to talk about this on the podcast, because I think this idea of creating margin and the importance of margin is a conversation I have with leaders all the time. They're just wrestling with the. There's not enough hours in the day. How do I juggle life and all the things? But take us back a little bit and give us a little bit of your story and how margin became such a passion point for you, because the little bit we've discussed, it's like there's some history behind why this became a passion point for you. Yeah, for sure?

Tali Kauflin:

Well, I'll start by saying I'm a mom of five and so automatically you don't have much margin, so that just comes par for the course. But I've been married to a pastor for 20 years and we've been in ministry for 20 years and have just experienced season after season where there's more work than there is time to accomplish it all. And in the middle of all of the work, we planted a church, which means you're wearing multiple hats and you're doing multiple roles. We've had a child who has had leukemia two times, and so not only are you planting a church, doing ministry life, trying to take care of your kids, but then you're also living in a hospital and walking through and navigating suffering, and that just changes everything. So thankfully he's doing great. He has been off treatment for three years now and in remission. But in the middle of all of that you find yourself surviving and not thriving. And you realize later on, when you're in these seasons of intensity, it could be sickness, it could be work, it could be emotional, mental there's so many things that cause seasons of intensity you get to the other side of it and you realize we're still treading water, we're still functioning as a survivor and not as someone who is able to thrive.

Tali Kauflin:

And my husband and I looked at each other. We were like, okay, something has to change. So we did some personal inventory of just our time. We realized that a lot of our time was not being used well. We were doing a lot of things, but not always the most impactful things or the most important things, and we were so reactive all the time we just felt like we were moving from crisis to crisis or problem to problem, and then collapsing into bed at the end of the day and hoping that the next day we could pull ourselves up from a pillow and face the day.

Tali Kauflin:

So again, yeah, I do it all again, so, yeah. So, through many iterations of difficulty, many iterations of just coming very close to burnout, and many iterations of like, wow, things are going really well, we had to discern what works for us. So in the middle of all that, then you went out of career and leadership roles and leading others not just my five humans that I'm responsible for they're live and livelihood, but the humans that I'm responsible for at my job and realize you know what? There's gotta be a better way, we can do better here. So that was kind of the beginnings of a big shift for me.

Jenni Catron:

Can you give us a couple of examples of the kind of things I think like as leaders here, that they're like oh yes, I can resonate with that and, granted, you know, you've had just a full plate it sounds like for most of your adult life, and then, of course, with your son's health, I mean that's a whole other level of disruption. That is like you know, it's a whole other thing, but I bet, not normal. Then we don't want that to be the normal for anyone. But I think there's a lot of leaders who can resonate with that idea of I feel like I'm reacting all the time Like you know, just like because I do. I think you get in some of those seasons where you're just having to function so you know rapidly to things that then that becomes your normal. So can you give us a couple of examples of the kind of things where you realized, oh, we're not, we need to change this. This is not spending our time wisely here. What were some of those? Maybe a couple of practical things that you guys said.

Tali Kauflin:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean it could be so simple as going from meeting to meeting to meeting, to phone call, to email to. I mean you're just literally moving from thing to thing to thing and there's no pause for reflection, there's no pause for application, there's just no pause. Another huge indicator for me was the things that I knew that would give me health physically and mentally and emotionally. I always ended up saying no to or just didn't have enough time for. So, for example, I have on my calendar every day I block off an hour of time to take a walk, and every day I have to make a choice, Am I going to take that walk? And I'm telling you, Jenni, a lot of days I don't. And I let the reactivity of busyness and the demands of work Basically, I forego the interests and the requirements for a healthy me. I just put them aside because I'm so busy. And another big indicator I noticed was that I just wasn't emotionally available to the people that I love the most, like, for example, my husband. Would come home from work, I would come home from work and there was nothing left to give the other person. There's just nothing. I missed important dates. I can't tell you the amount of birthday invitations that I missed in my personal email because I was so zeroed in on my work email and my work life that I just dropped so many balls in the things that, like these, are the memory makers right here. Like I do, value my career it's very important to me, but, like these other things that I was sacrificing the quality time, the emotional space and bandwidth being present, they just got pushed aside and I convinced myself that I could muscle through it and push through it.

Tali Kauflin:

I had this realization that none of us like limits. Limits are culturally. Limits are things to be broken, not things to embrace. Limits are things that are not a good thing, but I've learned through just studying scripture and living enough life that limits are actually a gift. They're like the guardrails on the highway.

Tali Kauflin:

Without guardrails on the highway, we're going to veer off that highway eventually and take a turn too hard and do something disastrous. But those guardrails, those limits, tell us that there is an end and a beginning to where safety on the road exists and we can embrace them, or we can keep, try to crash into them and damage ourselves in the process, or we can say no. These limits are actually really good things, and not just the guardrails. The lines on the road keep me from crashing into the guardrail, so there's a other limit and another boundary. That's actually really good. So I mean, that's what margin essentially is. It's the space between our load and our limit. It's that, it's that buffering space that allows us to safely traverse this life. And we need to take stock of what those lines are, because if we just press through them, you know, in an attempt to break through our limits, often those limits break us before we break through them, and that's dangerous.

Jenni Catron:

Yeah, yeah, that's super helpful.

Jenni Catron:

I love that the margin is really the space between our load and our limits, and just the visual of that is so incredibly helpful Because, like, my mind was going to the like see myself in a car just repeatedly bumping into the like, you know, like if you saw me do that driving down the road, you would think the girl is like something is wrong, something is like I'm curiously wrong with her.

Jenni Catron:

But you think about how often we do that, right, you know, just in our lives, and I I'm curious for you, but I know for me that I always feel like I should be able to do just a bit more, or I should be able to respond to that thing. Or you know and the listeners of the podcast know me well enough to know that you know I'm a Enneagram three achiever, like you know. So it's like I never think that I have limits on my capacity until I come crashing into it. So I would love to hear how? How did you redefine limits when you you know, as you're recognizing, okay, we've got to, we've got to readjust some things to be able to thrive more in life and leadership? How did you define those limits? What was the starting point for you guys.

Tali Kauflin:

Yeah, and I think I completely resonate with what you just said. There's oh, I can always do more, I'm a very high capacity person and I'll push myself very hard, and I I think the realization was that that is not a long play, that's a short play. Yeah, Mine.

Tali Kauflin:

And so if I want to last for years in this race, then I need to have a much longer view than I currently have. And so it became a math equation in a lot of ways for every yes that I say, it's a no to something else, and I needed to decide what's the best yes, and what's the right no. And honestly, for me it started with humility. I had to realize that I can't do everything, and nor should I try, and that's hard. That's hard for a driven person, and I think it's hard for a leader, because innately, you're born to achieve, you're born to climb, you're born to move the ball down the field. That's exciting, that's the thrill.

Tali Kauflin:

I don't think that's a bad thing. I just think we need to have a longer view in considering not just ourselves with that, but the people that we're leaving a legacy for, and take stock of the reality that are we leading leaving collateral damage in our wake, or are we leading leaving thriving culture in our wake? And so, for me, one of the first things, one of the first steps Well, I'm gonna stop talking. We'll erase that. You can ask any questions.

Jenni Catron:

That's good. That's good. No, I love that so much that you said it started with humility. Such a big statement right there, right Of like recognizing that we are not superheroes, like we are not superhuman, that I can't do everything, and like. I love what you said there, too, about like having that longer view is so powerful, so you have a little acronym to help leaders find margin. Would you tell us about that?

Tali Kauflin:

Love to. So, after reading a lot of books and a lot of thinking, I am a very visual person, so I love rhyming phrases. I love acronyms. They just help me keep my vision clear of where I'm headed. So this acronym is deep and the letters stand for do what only you can do, and then equip your leaders and power your leaders and position yourself out of their way. Yeah, that's a tough one. None of this is easy, but I found it to be really impactful and successful in creating a culture of margin for myself and for my teams.

Jenni Catron:

So okay, talk about each of those a bit more for us. So it's deep. Do what only you can do equip your people and power your leaders and position yourself out of the way. So give us a little more insight on those. Coach us through them. If you were coaching all the leaders listening, which you are, how would you give us a little insight in each of those?

Tali Kauflin:

Yeah. So, like we said before, doing what only you can do starts with that position of humility. You could do everything, especially if you are the captain of the ship, because you probably are familiar enough with everything that you could do it. But again, it starts with that humility position. You really shouldn't be doing everything and probably you're not the best at doing everything. So the first step for do for me is taking stock of everything that my day and my week requires of me. And so how I do that is I start by writing everything I want to do, everything I have to do and everything I get to do, kind of compile a list and just reflect on all of this thing.

Tali Kauflin:

I think the shift here is you have to go from being reactive to intentional, and unless you are aware of all the things that are laying before you, you cannot be intentional. You will only ever be reactive. And so, starting with becoming aware of what you need to do, you look at that list and you separate it out into two things the things that, literally, you are the only person in your organization can do. You are the only person who can do that thing. You set that list aside. Everything else can go to someone else, your massive list should have shunned considerably. Hopefully, yeah. And so then, with your list of things only you can do, or the things that you want to do, you know you prioritize that by impact, by importance, by priority.

Tali Kauflin:

You look at the time, which is the limitations that every single human on this earth has only 24 hours in a day, 52 weeks in a year. We all have this good limit. How does that work? So if you wake up at this time, can you actually do all these things in this day? It's a sobering exercise, but it's an important one to know the difference between what you can do and what you actually don't need to do, and so you begin to consider who can I give these things to? There are a lot of tasks that only you can do, like paying some of your bills because of passwords and things like that. Those are simply fixed by automation, and so finding someone who can help point you in the right direction for tools to automate your calendar so you're not emailing back and forth with people to schedule something, I mean, that saves so much time. There's such small little tricks we can do there, but really recognizing like this is the narrow lane of things that require my touch. That's good and that's how that starts. What's that? Yeah, the next one is equipping your team Truly.

Tali Kauflin:

I think most leaders know that all of our teams always need ongoing opportunities to grow in their skill sets, grow in their understanding. This is an investment that we, as leaders, get to make Now. If we're handing off, if we're delegating from our list of things, that often requires an investment of our time into our people so that they can do well, we need to be careful that we're not hoarding knowledge for ourselves. We really do want to equip them with that knowledge in mind. That equipping others saves you time to do what only you can do yeah.

Tali Kauflin:

Then the next step is empowering. This is one that I think can be the hardest for some leaders, because it's rooted in trust. That's big, yeah. You have to trust your people and they have to know that you trust them. If we say we trust our leaders and we withhold trust and micromanage them, we are setting our team up for failure out the gate. They will never take ownership. Truly, empowering your leaders means that they own it, because with ownership comes responsibility and from responsibility comes accountability. That is how the ball gets, not just moved meter by meter, but the ball gets moved down the field yard by yard in bigger gaps.

Tali Kauflin:

It's so important to choose the right people. It's okay if we don't choose the right people. Sometimes we learn. This is all a learning exercise, in my opinion.

Tali Kauflin:

I don't think we always make the right choices out the gate, but the reality is empowered leaders are engaged with their work. They contribute their best. They want to share their ideas. When we are micromanaging and when we are withholding trust, they're not going to share their ideas. They're not going to feel like they can take risk themselves, something that I've done at Clever. That's been such a joy to do, as I've learned who my people are.

Tali Kauflin:

Which is part of choosing the right people is by seeing them, understanding them, listening to them. I've just communicated to them over and over. I trust you for this. I know you can do this and I know you'll come to me when you feel like you can't. That has just proven to foster such a healthy working relationship between us. I don't feel this weight to come in and really be in the weeds of something I don't need to be in the weeds on. It's very freeing for me as the leader. It's very empowering for them, as the direct reports and other leaders in the company, to just know that they have space to thrive.

Tali Kauflin:

Which leads me to the last point, which is to position yourself out of the way, this one. Once you've learned to trust your leaders, it shouldn't be super hard, but goodness, it sure can be. Get out of the way. It's hard. You don't want to miss the exciting wins. You want to be part of them. Yeah, that's an owner's mindset. This is your baby. Of course you want to be in there with the wins. You also don't want the failures to go on failing too long. You want to swoop in there and fix that. Turn the ship. Getting out of the way means sometimes you're out of the way of the wins and you're out of the ways of the losses while they get worked out with your team, trusting that they'll bring you in when they need you.

Jenni Catron:

When they need you. Yeah, that's big. As you said that, I was thinking about a team that I was working with. One of the criticisms that the team had of their leader as we're just kind of troubleshooting the dynamics and the culture and where they needed support it was that they felt like their leader always re-inserted in the wins. They felt like that leader stole the wins from them Again. I know that wasn't the leader's intention. Yeah, I think even the team knew that that leader's intention but I think they didn't position themselves out of the way. I think in a heart of celebrating with the team, they actually kind of took the win away in some way. Isn't that what you're speaking to?

Tali Kauflin:

For sure. I mean we want to acknowledge their efforts and their ownership. If we're taking ownership of what they have done, then we're robbing them of this. I mean, we all know how important it is when we have worked super hard on something and to see it cross the finish line not just cross the finish line, but cross the finish line with a banner success. If someone else comes in and usurps some of the goodness of that, that's hard and it's a pride thing. It's like celebrate what someone has done because you see them, because you want to keep a value of them. Nothing devalues someone other than taking credit for something that they've done that you had no knowledge, expertise or input in. We don't need, as leaders, we really don't need to have our fingerprints on every single thing. That's right, yeah.

Jenni Catron:

Ultimately it starts to get fun when you realize you didn't and there was still this major win in the organization and you're like and I can't take any credit Like it's kind of a weird moment as a leader when you see that happen and you're like that was amazing. I didn't really do anything other than set my team up and if you can find the joy in that and celebrate that, I mean it's such a culture builder that people really feel I love. Where you talked about earlier, like that ownership leads to responsibility, which leads to accountability. Like that's such a powerful equation that we don't realize that a big part of that is by us empowering and getting out of the way.

Tali Kauflin:

Like just get out of the way. Truly, I think the older I get, the more I wanna celebrate the crowns on other people's heads that end like, oh, you're doing so great here. Like, celebrate you, wonderful, I'm so thankful for you, versus coveting it for myself. With maturity, with leading for 20 years, comes this perspective of this desire for shared celebration, and that's such a like who wants to celebrate alone? That's such a lonely space. It's so much more fun and enjoyable. And then also, when you get out of the way, you realize that your reach, the ripples of it, are much wider and further than if you're like lasering in on person, by person, by person. You can have such a bigger impact. The ripple just goes so much further when you're not there to disrupt it constantly. You know, yeah, that's super good.

Jenni Catron:

You too. Yeah, Really good, Tali. Okay. So lots of leaders listening here are going yes, I recognize I need to be more intentional about this. I need to be thoughtful about margin. How would you encourage them to start, Like, based upon what you've shared today, they're recognizing. You know what? I'm in that reaction mode all the time. Or I really need to be more intentional about creating the space, creating the margin, empowering my team, et cetera. How would you encourage them to get started?

Tali Kauflin:

Well, you know, in a lot of ways it starts with that acknowledging I'm spinning plates, I'm treading water and I'm doing too much. So that acknowledgement that self-awareness is key number one. You have to start there. And then I think, oftentimes, instead of trying to muscle through yet one more thing because here's what can come from listening to talk like this Now I have one more thing I need to do. I have one more step-by-step program to run through and, you know, gonna have success. I think the two things are self-awareness, that I need help To deciding if this is the thing that you need, the most important thing, because for some people it could just be you need more rest, like you don't need another step-by-step thing, you just need to learn how to rest so that. And then for other people, you might just need help, like you just might not be able to do this by yourself, and that's okay.

Tali Kauflin:

I think the best leaders are the ones that surround themselves with experts. They surround themselves with people who are better than them at a myriad of things, and so knowing when to ask for help, knowing who to ask for help, that's good. That would be the next thing. And I think, the last thing and I was thinking about this recently. I'm trying to reintegrate healthy habits into my life. Again, like I said at the beginning, even in my own life, being aware of margin, being deeply convinced of its importance, I don't take the run that I say that I'm gonna take every day, and so, in order to reintegrate healthy habits into my own life, it requires discipline. Yeah, anything in our life that's gonna have lasting impact requires self-discipline and as leaders, we are familiar with that. We know that Sometimes we just need someone to be come alongside us and be like you just need a little bit more discipline. You're doing too much. Just be more disciplined in a few things, right? So those would be the three things that come to mind.

Jenni Catron:

Yeah, that's super helpful, telly. I love that so much. I wanna give you a minute because one of the things that I think is part of the power of Clever, the company that you work for, is that in many ways you kind of help organizations create some margin by the way that you serve and partner with other organizations. So I'd love for you to take a minute and just tell our listeners about Clever and what you guys do and how you serve other leaders.

Tali Kauflin:

Absolutely I would love to. I love working for Clever and this is one of the reasons why we pride ourselves on being margin makers. We love nothing more than when someone comes to us and says I need help and we're like come on, let's come alongside you. We come alongside all kinds of leaders and all kinds of industries to really just create space for them to do what only they can do. So let's say we have a church leader, a pastor, coming to us and they have a website that they need to be rebuilt, or they don't have time to do their Sunday graphics, or they wanna do an end of year giving campaign and this is a mountain to them. They know the church needs these things, they know they wanna accomplish these things. They just don't have the staff. They have a staff that's spinning plates. They have a staff that's wearing 20 different hats. We can come in and we can say you know what, pastor? We can take that off your plate. We can't hug your members, we can't preach your sermons, we can't be at those members meetings, but we sure can take your sermon series off of your plate. We sure can design your end of year giving campaign in a way that just is surprising and delighting and beautiful and creative, because lack of margin means you have no room for creativity. So we're able to come alongside people who are basically burned out and produce creative solutions for them. You know we can.

Tali Kauflin:

We, we listen to the problems that are stated and we help you whittle down the problems that actually need to be solved. Oftentimes we come in and we're like I think I need this. I think I need that. This is the problem that needs to be solved. Our team at Clevers are really great at hearing all of your concerns and coming back to you with a 90-day plan of success of you. Know what I heard, what you said and here's how we're going to journey there with you together. Then you just show up to a weekly meeting and we get to show you all the things that we've done to lighten your load. I think that Clever has this really unique role of getting to come alongside and just carry the load. It's like doing a three-legged race. We get to come alongside of you for as long as you want us. We're going to be there and we're going to help you cross the finish line, arm in arm side by side.

Jenni Catron:

That's so good. We partnered with you guys for I think it's going on three years now A lot of the things that, first of all, I just don't even know how to do, but, secondly, you don't need to be doing, especially on the creative side with our website and all of our production needs and things like that. The stuff that is not core to the work that I do but is essential for us. Being able to share what we do, I feel like, is where you guys have been such a great partner with us. Thank you for that. How do we learn more about Clever? Where do we go for that?

Tali Kauflin:

Oh, great, well, you can certainly go to weareclever. com. That is our website. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn. We're all over the place. We are on the socials.

Jenni Catron:

Perfect, perfect. We'll link to that in the show notes Weareclever. com, which is fabulous.

Tali Kauflin:

Well, we try to be, we try to be we are clever.

Jenni Catron:

I love it. Tal9i, this was so helpful. Thank you for just sharing your insight and wisdom. Thank you for your journey as a leader that forced you to reckon with some of these dynamics and not you know that In many cases often lead leaders to burnout. And what I heard you saying is like you got really intentional to say, even with all of the craziness of life, even with all the responsibilities we had going on, we you and your husband in particular were intentional to say we've got to figure out how to operate in a healthier way and be smart about margin. So thanks for sharing that with us today, thanks for leading well and we're grateful for your influence in our world today.

Tali Kauflin:

Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jenni Catron:

All right, gang. I hope that got you thinking. I think that deep acronym is so incredibly powerful Do what only you can do, equip your team and power your leaders and position yourself out of the way. So that's going to get you thinking and I hope you'll take some action on that. You know every one of us needs more margin, and this is one of those things that, at every season of leadership, is requiring a little something different from you, and so you're constantly having to create more margin so that you can do those things that only you can do. And what only you can do is constantly shifting, and so I think this is just a really good, healthy inventory to say where do I need to create more margin so that I can lead myself well, so I can lead others better?

Jenni Catron:

So let me know what you thought of this week's episode.

Jenni Catron:

Send us an email at podcast at get4sight. com, just reach out to us on all the social channels Get4sight, or you can find me at JenniCatron, and then let us know what we can do to serve you better. Give us feedback on the episode, give us that review, slap some stars on it, and then I would love it if you would share this episode with another leader, maybe somebody that you know is struggling with time or with margin and just share it with them and encourage them to listen in. And then, if we can be a resource in any other way, I wanna encourage you to go to getforsightcom that's G-E-T, the number four, s-i-g-h-t dot com and check out the different things that we're doing there. We're actually doing a few little upgrades to the website, so we're trying to get clearer about what we do and how we do it, so we can serve you better in all things leadership and culture. And if you haven't done it yet, go to cultureconference. org. Make sure you're registered and I will see you next week.