273 | Understanding the Role of Empathy in Leadership with Tyler Dickerhoof

In this conversation, Jenni Catron and Tyler Dickerhoof explore the complexities of leadership, focusing on themes of self-awareness, empathy, and personal growth. Tyler shares his journey from a control-oriented mindset to understanding the importance of collaboration and vulnerability in leadership. They discuss the impact of intensity on leadership styles and the necessity of empathy in fostering a positive culture. The conversation emphasizes that effective leadership begins with self-awareness and the ability to connect with others authentically. In this conversation, Jenni Catron and Tyler Dickerhoof explore the intricate connections between farming and leadership, emphasizing the importance of empathy, vulnerability, and emotional intelligence in effective leadership. They discuss the barriers leaders face, including insecurity, inactivity, and insensitivity, and highlight the necessity of self-awareness and personal growth in fostering a healthy organizational culture. The dialogue underscores that true leadership begins with leading oneself well and being open to feedback from others.

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Transcript

Jenni Catron (00:02.938)

Well, hey, leaders, welcome to the Lead Culture Podcast, part of the Art of Leadership Network. I'm your host, Jenny Catrin, CEO of the Forsight Group. We're a company dedicated to helping leaders develop thriving teams. Each week, I'll be your guide as we explore practical strategies to equip you with the tools you need to lead with clarity, confidence, and build un-stoppable momentum in your organization. My mission is to be your trusted coach, empowering you to master the art of self-leadership so you'll learn to lead yourself well so you can lead others better. Each week we take a deep dive on a leadership or a culture topic. You'll hear stories from amazing guests and leaders like you who are committed to leading well. So let's dive in and keep learning on this leadership journey together. Friends, before we get into today's episode, I want to make sure that you have registered for the Culture Matters Summit coming up on January 23rd. It's almost a month away, which feels crazy that we're so close to 2025. But the Culture Matters Summit is really designed to help you unlock your team's potential with a culture strategy that works.

Join 3,000 culture-focused leaders at the Culture Matters Summit, a one-day, high-impact virtual event to equip you with the strategies and insights needed to make culture your competitive advantage in 2025. See, while 90 % of leaders believe culture is essential, y'all agree with me. You think it's important. Less than 25 % have a plan to shape it intentionally. And that's what we want to help you do.

This summit is your guide to creating a thriving purpose-driven team ready to overcome any challenge. I'm going to be joined by leaders like Mark Miller from Lead Every Day, Matt Randerson from Barna, Nona Jones, and a number of other leaders, Trisha Shortino. And then today's guest, Tyler Dickerhoof is going to join us as well. So if you will go to culturematterssummit.com,

Jenni Catron (02:28.58)

Register for free. It's free. In fact, I would encourage you map out that afternoon. It's going to be from one to 4 PM central. And so I want you to map out January 23rd from one to 4 PM central, market on your calendar, block the time, invite your team and watch some amazing content here from some great leaders that will help you invest intentionally into your culture this year. So go to culturemattersummit.com. And then today,

You're going to hear from my friend Tyler Dicker Hoof. Tyler is a renowned mentor and advisor for entrepreneurs and executives who are seeking effective leadership guidance. Tyler and I are in a John Maxwell high capacity leaders cohort together. We've known each other for several years, finally got to meet in person. You're going to hear about some of that today in our today's episode. But Tyler is one of those leaders who has done the hard work of self leadership. You're going to hear what he has to share about that.

Tyler holds a degree from Cornell University and has more than 20 years of experience in starting multiple businesses that have generated over 700 million in sales. His expertise in leadership is highly sought after by leaders of all types who want to elevate their teams to new levels. In our episode today, Tyler's gonna give you a sneak peek of what he's sharing at the Culture Matters Summit. And you're gonna hear about the four barriers to leadership.

It is so valuable to hear Tyler unpack this and I love his authenticity and his vulnerability. And that's one of the key things he coaches leaders on is the importance of our self leadership, our self awareness and working through the things, the barriers that hold us back as leaders. So here's my conversation with Tyler Dickerhoof.

Jenni Catron (00:02.626)
All right, Tyler, we were already having like a great conversation before we hit record. And it was like, all right, we got to pause. We got to hit record. Because anytime you and I are in the room together, the opportunity to just talk about, and this is who you are, just the real authentic, you know, dynamics that leaders face, the, you know, we were talking about the subject of me being a bit of a control freak because we were talking about all the book stuff coming.

Tyler Dickerhoof (00:09.486)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jenni Catron (00:28.19)
And so I'm really thrilled that you're joining me today. Your just desire to be intentional, authentic, vulnerable, and helping leaders lead from a healthy place is one of the things that I've so appreciated in the, guess we've known each other a handful of years, but we've had an opportunity to spend more time together this year. So first of all, thanks for joining me. I'd love for you to just kind of give the listeners a little bit of a picture of who you are, what your world looks like.

Tyler Dickerhoof (00:46.091)
Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (00:49.657)
Yeah.

Jenni Catron (00:58.074)
do a little of your own intro. I got to do the formal bio, but you tell us more about you.

Tyler Dickerhoof (01:00.344)
Yeah, yeah, that's okay. Yeah, yeah. You know, as our mentor John Maxwell says, it doesn't matter how good or long your bio is, if you stink, you stink. And if you're good, you're good. So, I mean, you could take that for whatever. With that, no, I'm extremely grateful to be here. I'm extremely grateful to be invited into your community at the Culture Summit. I'm so grateful for that. I'm also super excited, super excited that you're gonna come join me in May.

Jenni Catron (01:10.148)
You

Jenni Catron (01:24.098)
It's going to be so fun.

Jenni Catron (01:29.059)
Yes, yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (01:29.974)
And so, excited for that. But, what is interesting is, know, you've been a guest twice on my podcast. Now the opportunity to return the favor. And I was thinking about this this morning. I don't remember exactly. I do now that I'm saying that I was going to say, I don't remember exactly how we got connected, but then remember the great connector that is Brad Lominek connected us many years ago now. And, so I'm grateful for that. As you mentioned, we, got to meet each other in person.

Jenni Catron (01:50.649)
of course. Of course that's who it was. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (01:58.852)
back in August and got to spend some more time over the last several months and it's been great. And I think to your point earlier, as we were just hopping on and chatting, I think the opportunity to just have that connection and relationship is so easy because I believe what you shared my heart and or what I see in your heart are so much aligned. So much of the fact that I recently read

Jenni Catron (01:59.214)
Finally.

Jenni Catron (02:24.132)
for sure. Yeah, yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (02:28.91)
I haven't read all of it. got to be honest, a great large portions of clout. And I'm like, so Jenny wrote this like 10 years ago now. And I'm like, this is really good because it's one, it's very close to a lot of the stuff that I have had to learn and go through. And as our again, friend, John Maxwell says, layered that learning, sharing thoughts. And I've gotten so much from reading that book.

Jenni Catron (02:34.244)
Sure, yeah.

It is 10 years ago.

Jenni Catron (02:53.018)
Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (02:56.706)
honestly, for my own content and for my own book coming out. So there's going to be many references to the great Janet Catrone in that book because I might just take whole segments and just that fills pages. That's that's less words that I have to write. I mean.

Jenni Catron (02:59.716)
Perfect.

Jenni Catron (03:06.362)
Have at it.

That's right, that's right. Well, and isn't it, it's also John who says, hey, take it and make it better. Like that's one of the things I love about him so much is his generosity with the content. He's like, take it and make it better. So Tyler, take it and make it better.

Tyler Dickerhoof (03:17.006)
Yeah!

Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, I have to reach over here because there's a book that you reference, The Tender Heart, if you can see that on camera. You reference that in your book. And so now I have it to read. So anyways, you ask the question, who am I? Man, I am a father of three, married to Kelly. We've been married for almost 20 years. It'll be 20 years in 2025. I'm a midwesterner. I am a Buckeye.

Jenni Catron (03:33.145)
I love it.

Tyler Dickerhoof (03:47.368)
That's a very painful thing to say at this time of year, but I'll just leave it at that. grew up on a dairy. Yeah, I grew up on a dairy farm, was a nutritionist for dairy cows for 13 years professionally. And through that learned a lot of life lessons. And my wife and I got involved in network marketing and that was a business that changed my life. Not because it was, you know, the products, the company were like revolutionary. No, it was because

Jenni Catron (03:49.412)
Hahaha

Right? least you're honest.

Jenni Catron (04:03.993)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (04:15.774)
I had done this stuff before in my nutrition business, but now finally had a place to actually understand everything I did and believed was about people. And I was the barrier. I was the issue and not all the things that I would say growing up, especially on a farm. And I know so many others that would be, it's like, I work with cows so I don't have to deal with people.

Jenni Catron (04:19.034)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (04:30.094)
you

Jenni Catron (04:39.13)
Some days I want to go work with cows.

Tyler Dickerhoof (04:43.374)
You know, you won't see that they're behind me. I have a few steers out there. That's what is behind me as well. I still have a connection to it. And part of setting up the studio is so people can watch the cows sometimes in the background. But I've learned a lot from cows in regards to working with people. And once I took those experiences and understood it's all about people. Like our friend Chris Allen says, it's all about people.

Jenni Catron (04:54.54)
Yeah. Yep.

Jenni Catron (05:00.442)
that's interesting.

Jenni Catron (05:08.078)
Yeah, yeah.

Jenni Catron (05:12.836)
That's right.

Tyler Dickerhoof (05:13.212)
And it took me many, years to get there. And it took me many years to get there because I built up so many armors around me that tried to protect me that I thought the barrier was other people and the barrier was me.

Jenni Catron (05:24.602)
you

Jenni Catron (05:33.326)
What was that aha moment for you, Tyler? Or was it kind of a progression or was there like a moment that it was like that aha that it's really not about me, it's about others and.

Tyler Dickerhoof (05:36.1)
Well.

Tyler Dickerhoof (05:46.52)
There's one major one, and I talk about that during the culture summit, when God said, this is how you handle with things. This is how you deal with things. And part of that, and I didn't share at that event, I'll share for that event, I'll share right now, is what I did reflecting back is understanding where did that impetus of this is how you deal with things. And for me, that's being intense. That's putting my head down and push.

Jenni Catron (05:47.802)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (06:13.53)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (06:16.4)
Going through that growth process and this is seven eight years ago now and part of that was working with people dealing with employees in our business and you know, they were young employees there in the early 20s and all right That's a big journey in of itself being an employee understand what's work really like as opposed to That's what it's like. I mean we're in our 40s. It's like alright. This is what it is when you're in your 20s You have this idealistic. it's it's so different than what it is and What I reflected back?

Jenni Catron (06:30.242)
Sure.

Jenni Catron (06:41.06)
Totally.

Tyler Dickerhoof (06:45.76)
and understood and God led me through this journey of where some of that result to intensity that I say result that that.

Jenni Catron (06:53.082)
Hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (06:59.364)
I don't want, I'm looking for the word. This sometimes happens to me. It is, you know, resorting to intensity. It's a really, really, if you look in the thesaurus, it is, you when you find resort, that's like one of those key, key, pictionary, or not a pictionary. mean, I am really on top of it. What's the game that you play with like all the letters?

Jenni Catron (07:02.144)
Right word, yeah. All of us.

Jenni Catron (07:09.74)
yeah, yep, yep, yep.

Jenni Catron (07:24.698)
It's Friday when we're recording this. Scrabble?

Tyler Dickerhoof (07:31.734)
Scrabble. It's a high point Scrabble word, right? Resort. That's a joke. All right. And when I resorted to intensity was the reaction to one of the great life-defining moments that I've ever had. And that was resorting to intensity after the death of my brother. Like I mentioned, or...

Jenni Catron (07:35.032)
Yeah, yeah, yes, fair enough.

Jenni Catron (07:54.33)
Yeah, that was your coping mechanism of sorts was just going, what did that look like for you intensity wise? Like how would you describe that?

Tyler Dickerhoof (07:59.618)
Yeah, that's what I did.

Tyler Dickerhoof (08:05.996)
Yeah, so you know, just a brief kind of let me give you some background there. So I grew up, like I said, on a farm in Ohio when I was 14. My younger brother died in a farming accident. I drove over him and he was three. I was 14 and shortly after the event, of course, emergency personnel, everything else, and he died instantly. There wasn't any suffering. All those in the emergency personnel were there and I was talking to the sheriff and of course, Dairy Farm.

Jenni Catron (08:17.54)
It's tragic, so tragic.

Tyler Dickerhoof (08:34.946)
much like your world of Wisconsin, you know, small little herd and the it's about four thirty in the afternoon and the sheriff's asked me questions and I look at him just like I'm looking you in the eye right now and said, I'm done. I'm done answering questions. If you want to go with me into that barn and milk the cows with me, then you can ask me whatever you want. Other than that, I'm done. And I remember that response as vivid as what I just shared to you.

Jenni Catron (08:36.761)
That's right.

Jenni Catron (08:51.588)
Mmm.

Jenni Catron (09:04.314)
Hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (09:05.412)
And that's how I dealt with things. If there was a challenge, if there was a frustration, if there was a, and most of it, it was, you know, when my insecurity of I'm trying to prove myself, I'm trying to prove my worth was showing up, I'd be like, I'm just gonna put my head down and push. And here's what's interesting that I reached out to a friend kind of interactive and she coached me a lot in youth organizations. I was involved in 4-H and FFA, all those farm things.

Jenni Catron (09:06.852)
Yeah, yep.

Jenni Catron (09:17.434)
Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Jenni Catron (09:32.954)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (09:34.5)
And she coached me in 4-H and started when I was eight and spent a lot of years, you know, competing in this coach. I said something, it was just a handful of years ago. And I said, did you ever recognize like a change? She goes, yeah, yeah. And of course a community and especially a farming community, you know that happens to someone in your community. Everyone knows. And she goes, Tyler, beforehand, you were pretty easy going. You're happy. Yeah, you, you know, would

Jenni Catron (09:37.37)
Hmm.

Jenni Catron (09:54.616)
And for sure. Yeah. Yep.

you

Tyler Dickerhoof (10:03.938)
You're smart. You work hard all those things. And then after that moment, yeah, you were just intense. And yeah.

Jenni Catron (10:09.134)
Yeah, yeah. mean, how do you even know how to cope as a 14 year old, right? Like you're like, you know, just that was survival, I'm guessing for you a bit.

Tyler Dickerhoof (10:18.232)
Yeah, but here's what I realize. And I've had good friends and I've had people that I've been able to talk to, is it doesn't matter what the trauma looks like. It doesn't matter if we classify it as a big T, little T, sideways T, upside down. It doesn't matter. How we respond to that is all the same. And for me, it wasn't a, I think that? I I coped with it how I knew how to cope with it.

Jenni Catron (10:29.412)
Hmm.

Jenni Catron (10:33.176)
Right. Right.

Jenni Catron (10:38.894)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Jenni Catron (10:47.578)
Sure, yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (10:47.932)
And this is what I find is that so many leaders, when they either get backed into the corner, when they feel like they're alone on an island, when everything's coming at them, they respond in a way. And it's something that I've identified is how I respond. I respond with intensity. you're going to come after me? it's going to be down. Like I am coming out swinging, fighting, and I will go through you.

Jenni Catron (10:55.759)
right.

Tyler Dickerhoof (11:20.032)
Here's what's challenging there. And as you've seen me in person, as you've gotten to know me, I don't think I'm an intimidating person. I really don't. But yet, six foot tall, fairly fit, and I can get a pretty furrowed brow. And I had to understand that, when I wasn't even trying to be intense, I come across as intense. And

Jenni Catron (11:27.97)
No, no.

Jenni Catron (11:38.906)
.

Jenni Catron (11:43.414)
Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, that's not how you're perceiving yourself, but the experience of others. Yeah, I can see that.

Tyler Dickerhoof (11:50.568)
No, I mean, that's, yeah. And so it's kind of like, even times I don't think, I'm not being intense. no, like, and maybe I'm just like contemplating, I'm thinking, I'm observing and everyone's like, dude, just chill. And I'm like, I'm fine. Like, I'm just like thinking, I'm like in deep in thought and they're like, dude, you look like you could like hurt somebody.

Jenni Catron (12:06.936)
Right? Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (12:16.916)
And so many leaders I found fall into that. Here's the other piece. We've talked a little bit about this. There's an element of the corporate world, corporate cultures in some extent, that applaud intensity.

Jenni Catron (12:20.506)
for sure.

Jenni Catron (12:32.836)
completely. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (12:34.372)
And one of the things that I understood about my intensity, and there's two examples, and this goes back into the note that I have here that I'm gonna touch on here in just a second, but the things about intensity is a bulldozer. It will push and destroy everything in its path. By that, you leave carnage. And that's costly. If you're bulldozing the side of a hill,

Jenni Catron (12:49.188)
Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (13:01.516)
and you're gonna level that out for a foundation to build something, that's very purposeful. But you're also gonna cause some damage. And if you're not careful, you're gonna hurt things. Here's the other example of intensity that somebody in my community shared with me and we were talking about one day and it's the perfect fit. Intensity is like the light in your bedroom.

If somebody were to walk into your bedroom, turn on the light at three in the morning when you're sleeping, you're just going to be like, just, just turn it off. Like, no, stop. If it's 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, middle of the day, you walk into your bedroom, you're going to make your bed. You're going to change, you know, wash your sheet, whatever you turn on the lights. No big deal. See, that's the thing about intensity is there's a place for it in a condition for it. But at the wrong time, the wrong place, dude, it is going to be painful.

Jenni Catron (13:33.579)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (13:45.901)
Right, it's appropriate then.

Hmm. Yep.

Jenni Catron (13:56.282)
That's good. Yep, that's really good.

Tyler Dickerhoof (13:58.112)
And that's the culture piece that takes so much maturity and emotional intelligence to understand, hey, Jenna, your intensity, I love it and appreciate it. We're trying to race to get this book published. We're trying to do all those things. But guess what? On Monday morning, when we're just having a team meeting and everyone needs to feel connected, let's try smiling. Let's try smiling instead of jumping in and saying, these are the 75 things we need to get done.

Jenni Catron (14:21.69)
Hahaha

Jenni Catron (14:27.348)
completely. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, and I'm curious for you, Tyler, because learning that about myself was such a bumpy journey, let's say, because I was so, I am so driven. I can be so intense. We talked and you'll touch on this about, you know, just being a bit of a control freak. Like as you're talking about the intensity piece I was sharing with you, like

Tyler Dickerhoof (14:28.48)
And I've been there. I know that. I know that too well.

Jenni Catron (14:53.868)
it's a busy, busy season. Like I'm feeling the overwhelm and where I go to when I feel the overwhelm is the control piece, right? And I think, you you've heard me say this a lot, but we've got to lead ourselves well to lead others better. And so that self-awareness piece, which I know is a passion point for you is so critical to leading well. In fact, this morning I saw another mutual friend of ours, John Gordon post on his social media. He said, a poor culture is a sign of bad leadership.

To improve an organization's culture, I don't focus on culture. I focus first on improving leadership. When leaders improve, they will improve their culture. And I mean, it just goes hand in hand that it's like, we want all these things as leaders, but it starts with us. And you know, the thing, again, I appreciate so much about you and the conversations we've had and who I know you are, is you have just done this deep work to say, how do I lead myself well?

how do I be more aware of the influence that I have, the impact that I'm having on people around me? So I'd love for you to maybe, you might just riff on that a little bit, but.

Tyler Dickerhoof (16:01.748)
Well, there's two things I want to share there. I'm not fixed. I'm a person who was asked to leave a school administrator's office two weeks ago. So I just humbly have to admit, and I didn't think I was intense at all, but really what I believe I did is through my understanding, my lens is I identified his insecurity and he flipped out and it's like,

Jenni Catron (16:08.664)
Sure. It's ongoing work, right?

Ha

Jenni Catron (16:28.346)
Sure, sure.

Tyler Dickerhoof (16:31.428)
Okay, yeah, this tells me the whole story. He doesn't understand that I know all so much what he's going through and I can help him so much. But I haven't done a good job of coming alongside of him to be able to offer that. And that's my fault, I gotta own that, right? One thing I wanna go back to your comment from John is absolutely, if you tried to attack a culture,

Jenni Catron (16:32.142)
Oops, yep.

Jenni Catron (16:47.194)
Sure. Yeah, You an early influence for that, yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (16:58.968)
by putting all the bows and whistles on it, dude, you're just putting glaze on a pile of poop. It may be shiny and look pretty, but it's still a pile of poop. And our friend, Jake Thompson, he shared this with me last summer. It's so good. There is no strong or weak culture. Cultures all have the same strength because they all perpetuate. There's positive and negative.

Jenni Catron (17:06.413)
That's right.

Jenni Catron (17:23.684)
That's Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (17:25.644)
And so coming back to that point is usually what happens when a leader recognizes that their culture isn't what they want it to be. They end up putting a death grip on it and they perpetuate the negativity rather than improving the positivity in that death grip is being a control freak. And what's interesting is, is you talk about that and, there will people they'll come to me and say, Tyler, are you, you know, you probably deal with control. I know I don't, I don't.

Jenni Catron (17:36.356)
That's right. Yep.

Jenni Catron (17:41.464)
Right.

Tyler Dickerhoof (17:55.244)
I don't at all, but not me, not me. am not like my wife will often attribute that to me because she thinks that my demeanor is on the control. No, not one bit. I'm a collaborator at heart. And that's what got me in trouble is, you know, part of my, this great work and revelation is I was able to do a 360 review and everyone said, Tyler, it's all about you. It's like, well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not about me at all.

Jenni Catron (17:55.414)
That's interesting. that's, that one's not a, that one's not an issue for you. Yeah.

Jenni Catron (18:18.234)
Mmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (18:23.468)
I have very few like personal goals where I have to hit. I like to grow. want to continue to grow. I want to go with others. That is in my heart. My strengths from, from, Clifton strengths identifies that I'm a, you know, I'm a, a ranger. am a, you know, strategist. I'm a learner. Now I do have command and this is what I've learned. If I don't trust the leader, if the leader that I'm with doesn't have a vision,

Jenni Catron (18:43.482)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (18:49.626)
Tyler Dickerhoof (18:52.386)
Well, take over. Yeah, I'll do that. But it's not because I have to be the leader. It's just kind of like, well, I don't want to sit around here and do nothing. Let's go somewhere. Let's do something. And so a great example that I recognize that not being a control freak was something my dad said to me one day. So my parents live here in Washington. They've been here about five years. And for the first couple of years, my brother worked for us. So my younger brother, eight years.

Jenni Catron (18:53.818)
Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (19:22.116)
you know, I left home when I was 18 and he was 10 and we didn't spend much more time together until he moved here to Spokane and I was almost 40 and, he worked for us. And one day my dad asked like, Hey, what's, what's Trent doing? My brother. like, I don't know. He goes, what do you mean? He works for you. I'm like, yeah, he does, but I trust him and I know he's going to do what he needs to do. And I don't need to like worry about where he's at. And he goes, I could never do that.

Jenni Catron (19:50.106)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (19:51.03)
And so my dad very much growing up on our farm struggled oftentimes with employees because that idea of empowerment was so hard, partly because what he grew up in, the culture that he grew up in, for me, it was very natural to say, hey, I trust you, go and do. Now that can be a fault in and of itself because you end up advocating a lot of leadership responsibilities because you're just like,

Jenni Catron (20:03.546)
Sure. Yeah.

Jenni Catron (20:09.462)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (20:19.778)
I trust you go figure it out on your own. And one of the things that I had to learn over this journey of growth the last few years is proximity. And I learned it from John Maxwell, the law of proximity is you have to have proximity. And I saw that show up and that really helped define the definition of empathy that I have. And leaders

Jenni Catron (20:21.508)
Yeah. Yep.

Jenni Catron (20:34.147)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (20:47.704)
you know, part of our solution to our insecurities, part of it to our intensity, which I think is just a manifestation of your insecurity. There's also inactivity. like, I don't want to deal with it or insensitive. I don't care what problems you have, right? And the great solution is empathy.

Jenni Catron (21:05.656)
Yeah, talk about that. Yeah, tell us more.

Tyler Dickerhoof (21:07.993)
Right.

I just got done reading, I did a boggles story, it's called Relentless Empathy. It's really good, I got the book. And it talks much about it, and our society now is gravitated towards empathy, and you can read more and more about it. And I find that it's one of the most misunderstood words in our business culture, empathy and humility. We hear it, but we're like, really, what is that? Brene Brown, you know, defines it as getting down into a well with someone.

Jenni Catron (21:29.946)
Hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (21:37.996)
and being there with them, right? Or, you know, it's defined as sometimes putting yourself in someone else's shoes. And when I hear that, put yourself in someone else's shoes, I often say, that's gonna be painful for one of us.

Jenni Catron (21:50.071)
That's great, yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (21:53.134)
Because that's what it is. It's painful for one of us. But this is what I've come to describe and define empathy as. Putting your arm around someone and walking with them. There's a lot of action in that. Because I have to be the one as a leader. I have to be vulnerable enough to raise my arm and put it around someone else. I have to expose myself. You can't have empathy without vulnerability.

Jenni Catron (21:56.367)
Yep.

Jenni Catron (22:21.679)
Hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (22:22.242)
Because if not, just seems like manipulation.

Jenni Catron (22:25.006)
Yeah, yep, yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (22:27.736)
Here's the other piece of that.

Tyler Dickerhoof (22:32.004)
is when you put your arm around someone, you have that proximity, you're close, but you have to go at the same pace. And I remember telling our friend Mark Cole this one day, and we were talking about things and just tell him what I was learning and going through. And I said, I had to learn how to get lazy. And he goes, I get it. And here's what I've understood is, yeah, people that are intent, people that are just go, go, go, go, go.

Jenni Catron (22:41.135)
Yes.

Jenni Catron (22:51.962)
Yeah. Yeah. Did just your pace. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (23:00.868)
And when they see disruption, when they see difficulties, when they see challenges, and I say, I had to learn how to get lazy, they're like, okay, I get it. I get it. And, you know, other people are like, well, I'm lazy. But I had to learn how to slow down and go at someone else's pace. And here's what's really cool as a believer. Don't be unequally.

Jenni Catron (23:18.894)
Yes. Yep.

Jenni Catron (23:26.01)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (23:27.022)
When you put your arm around someone, they put it around you, it's like a yoke. And what happens when one oxen walks faster than the other? They choke each other out. It doesn't work.

Jenni Catron (23:29.934)
Yeah, yeah, you're going and you're going together.

Jenni Catron (23:39.46)
Gosh, I never applied that in a leadership context, but I love that, Tyler. It's true. You drew the application for us.

Tyler Dickerhoof (23:44.738)
Yeah, it's not me, it's God, but that's okay.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it came to me. Like, sometime, it's cows, right? It's cows, I get it. Yeah, yeah, just...

Jenni Catron (23:56.618)
It's cows. This is your world. This is what you know. This is how farming connects to leadership for us in many ways, but there's one of them for us.

Tyler Dickerhoof (24:05.037)
Here's something that I...

I don't think it's a big deal, because that's just how I see the world, like make those connections. I really don't like, I do that all day, every day. That's just how I see the world. And as people in my community or like yourself, they're like, wow, I'm like, okay. It's kind of like what other sellers is like, I mean, don't be amazed my gifting, it's just, that's my gifting. I don't try to do it. I just, that's a unique perspective God gave me. And it's where I can.

Jenni Catron (24:14.49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you do.

Tyler Dickerhoof (24:37.188)
walk into a room of a bunch of farmers and be totally comfortable or walk into a bunch of room with a bunch of, you know, top 50 executives in the world and like, okay, great. We all get up and pee in the middle of the night, whatever people or people. in the,

Jenni Catron (24:40.164)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (24:56.77)
The extent there of empathy working is again, has to be that vulnerability.

Jenni Catron (25:03.802)
Yeah. I, I, hearing you phrase that that way, makes so much sense. was thinking about a situation the other day with another leader and they were afraid that if they tried to be empathetic, it would feel patronizing. And it was because yeah, it lacked the vulnerability piece. Like that, like as soon as you said that, I was like, that's it because they hadn't applied the vulnerability to it that

Tyler Dickerhoof (25:21.828)
Yeah, probably because of the way they're going about it.

Jenni Catron (25:33.914)
made it truly empathetic.

Tyler Dickerhoof (25:37.272)
Have you ever read the poem Footprints in the Sand?

Jenni Catron (25:40.204)
Yes, well it's been a while.

Tyler Dickerhoof (25:42.276)
All right, now stop and think about that related to...

Tyler Dickerhoof (25:47.492)
When we walk beside Jesus and he puts his arm around us and we say, sometimes there's one set of footsteps, sometimes there's two sets. That's an example of vulnerability. And we have to do that when we lead. There's going to be some times as a leader, you have to be willing to be carried by other people because their zone of genius is going to over shine yours. And that's what you want them to do. And that is true empathy and vulnerability. Jenny, you are amazing.

Jenni Catron (25:50.82)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (25:54.808)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (26:06.052)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (26:17.11)
at this, don't let me get in your way. Go do it. You're going to carry the whole team. And there's other things they uniquely gift at it. Okay, great. I can do it, but not in spite of the team. It's to help carry. Cause that's what I can do. And it's the same thing. And it takes that vulnerability. Here's another example that I learned. and it's, it's so funny because then empathy ties into emotions. And I've had.

Jenni Catron (26:20.538)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jenni Catron (26:32.014)
Yeah. Yep.

Jenni Catron (26:36.602)
It's good.

Jenni Catron (26:45.315)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (26:47.171)
podcast guests and I've had several friends that have worked in the armed forces, military, different branches around the world. And I've had this conversation and I've had this personal conversation with them and they're like, there is no place for emotion. I'm like, wrong. You can't be empathetic without emotion. And some of these are extremely empathetic people. There's a difference between being empathetic and

You know, if, for example, going back to what I just shared, if I'm so emotional downtrodden that we're walking together and you want to fall over and just die, I can't let you, I have to carry you. And that's being emotionally inclined to say, quit being a wimp. No, it's like, hey, this is my time to carry you. It's okay. We got this. Encourage and vice versa. And so you have to be emotionally understanding, but you have to be in control of your emotions. Understand your emotions.

Jenni Catron (27:18.948)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (27:26.68)
Right. Yeah.

Jenni Catron (27:33.23)
Yeah, yep, yep, yep.

Jenni Catron (27:41.86)
There you go. Yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (27:42.496)
not let your emotions overtake you because then all of sudden it becomes a liability. And part of that is, is yet we're going to have that. And for me, one of the things that I understood is, is coming back to the insecurity. Insecurities are just, every one of us have them. Everyone has them, right? You've talked about that. You've written that. And the difference is, do you hide it, hide from it? Or do you say, sorry, sorry, my insecurity showing.

Jenni Catron (27:47.33)
Yeah, that's the distinction.

Yeah. Yep.

Jenni Catron (28:00.526)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (28:11.182)
Sorry, just my intensity came out. Forgive me. I didn't want to do the hard thing. Forgive me. Man, I was so focused on the goal that I forgot about you were more important than the goal. I'm sorry. That's my insecurity. Because it's insensitive. In talking to like some Navy SEALs, and I asked him one day, who makes it through Bud's? know, the classic training Coronado Island.

Jenni Catron (28:11.864)
Yep, yep, there it is. Yep, yep.

Jenni Catron (28:27.246)
Yeah, yep.

Jenni Catron (28:37.571)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (28:39.522)
Who makes it through? they go, that's easy. That's easy. Person makes it through is the one that doesn't try to do it on their

Jenni Catron (28:47.636)
wow. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (28:48.996)
And that's what they try to break.

That's why there's one popular figure who went through it three times before he finally passed and he just was strong enough to do it on his own and yet is disregarded by the entire community. Cause they're like, he's not a seal. He's all about himself. We don't want him because I can't trust that he's going to look out for me. He's just going to look out for himself because that's how he survived. Because his intensity is what's pushed him to somewhere.

Jenni Catron (29:04.238)
Yeah, he does eat. Sure. Wow.

Jenni Catron (29:13.568)
and those. Yeah, yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (29:20.908)
And guess what? He's going to get there. And it's like the great African proverb. One goes fast, many go far. And it's like, you can go wherever you want, but you're going to go on your own. And so what does it take? It takes sitting in the cold water that's splashing up against you when it's cold and miserable and you link arms. You're vulnerable. You put your arms in the air. You link arms with the person beside you and say, together we can do this. And that's empathy.

Jenni Catron (29:28.918)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Jenni Catron (29:46.606)
Yeah, yeah. That's powerful. That's powerful. Tyler, you've given... Well, no, this is great. Actually, I mean, my question was to have you give us a little bit of a sneak peek of the talk you're gonna do at Culture Matters Summit, which you really did, because you're... Yeah, like, well, and I wanna, you know, I'll remind everybody, culturemattersummit.com is where we register for this. Tyler is one of the speakers for the event.

Tyler Dickerhoof (29:51.844)
Alright, you have some questions, don't you?

Tyler Dickerhoof (30:02.415)
Did I check that box?

Jenni Catron (30:13.486)
and we'll be talking about the four barriers of leadership, which if I have them right, it's insecurity, inactivity, insensitivity, and intensity. And you hit three of the four of those pretty strong today. Speak just a bit to that, the inactivity one.

Tyler Dickerhoof (30:29.88)
Yeah, yeah, that's one that gets a lot of leaders.

And we recognize it. It's, you've been in this spot. You've seen this spot. Somebody's not doing their job. They're not pulling their part. They're, not hitting, you know, whatever team metrics and the, leadership solution to that is, I'm just going to let them figure it out. I don't want to have the hard conversation. And, and, and it's like, Ooh, if I just avoid it,

Jenni Catron (30:57.75)
Yes, there you go. Yep. Yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (31:04.374)
It'll just play out. It'll just take care of itself. That's inactivity. That's choosing not to lead because you're uncomfortable how it may turn out either both relationally or legally. The greatest problem in our society is so many leaders are driven to inactivity because they've been scared by some litigator in some insurance company, some union that if you say something, you're going to get sued.

Jenni Catron (31:07.862)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good. Yep, yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (31:34.412)
This is what I know. This is what I know from experience. Inactivity may keep you safe in the court of law, but you will be guilty in the court of relationships.

Jenni Catron (31:34.5)
Yeah.

Jenni Catron (31:49.994)
that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (31:52.356)
So would you rather do the right thing by people or would you just rather say, Hey, that keeps my lawyers off the payroll. Well, if we've gotten to that place in our society that, and part of that is the problem is like, Hey, if you're going to get sued, then you probably didn't do something that was very empathetic. Okay. You got to own that. You got to grow through that. But one thing that I've seen in, in, in, again, this comes in a challenge and you see leaders do it right and do it wrong. We see it right now with either layoff.

Jenni Catron (31:55.278)
Yep. Yep.

Jenni Catron (32:01.069)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Jenni Catron (32:10.724)
Sure, sure, yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (32:22.084)
We see it with the return to office mandates. We see leaders that just kind of put down this mandate and then walk away and like, hmm, if I get out of here fast enough, I won't get any arrows in my back. And you know what happened to those organizations?

Jenni Catron (32:22.702)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (32:32.75)
Yeah, yeah.

What? completely, completely. I cannot tell you the number of conversations that I will be in with a leader who needs to make a decision, a policy, whatever it might be that they know is not gonna be completely popular. And they retreat and make the decision instead of leaning in to get better understanding or...

Tyler Dickerhoof (32:37.868)
Everyone checks out. Everyone leaves.

Jenni Catron (33:03.936)
or then communicate the decision and why the decision, like they actually just kind of hunker down and wait for the storm to blow over when in fact, if you actually leaned in both in the trying to hear and understand and make sure that your decision is based in good perspective of what's happening throughout the organization. And then even yet, you're gonna have hard decisions to make, you're gonna have to change policies, whatever it might be, but then leaning in and actually having conversations to share what you're doing.

That would cover a myriad of issues that we see show up in organizations. Not to mention just the impact on culture, you know, when a leader either avoids or engages. And so I don't want to give it all away, Tyler. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (33:36.6)
You what that takes?

Tyler Dickerhoof (33:44.6)
You know what the word of that is? It's vulnerability. I don't have all the answers. And leaders that choose inactivity, and sometimes their board forces them to it and say, no, I'm going to go make, hey, return to office. And I describe that, and I think it's an easy situation for someone. It's like, hey, if we all of sudden understand, hey, our culture is best.

Jenni Catron (33:49.124)
Yeah, yes. Yeah, that's right.

Tyler Dickerhoof (34:10.242)
My friend, Kylie Felker told me this about her organization, Foster Victor. They work best in person. I'm like, hallelujah, good for you. And just understand our people here enjoy being in the office space. And if you don't, that's okay. There's probably a million other financial advisors that you could go work for. Just we like an office. That's what fits our culture best.

Jenni Catron (34:17.646)
Yep. Yep.

Jenni Catron (34:26.5)
That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. And, and, then she's just clear about that of like clear about, yeah. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (34:33.08)
Yeah, don't be apologetic. Just say it is what it is. But it takes vulnerability to enter in that conversation and say, Hey, this may not fit you. And part of the, you know, the, the change in either return to office or, or changing these work dynamics and how it affects culture is the reason it affects culture is because you're not authentically vulnerable. You're not transparent and saying, I thought we could make this work.

Jenni Catron (34:54.969)
Mmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (34:58.904)
But what we understood is that part of our culture, part of our organization relies on being with each other. That's when we're at our best. So I did not recognize that value was so imperative in our organization and we've come to understand that. And so that is an essential going forward. And this is what we're going to do. If that doesn't work for you, that's okay. We will provide opportunities. We will do things to help you find a place that fits you.

Jenni Catron (35:07.258)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (35:27.278)
Yeah, that's right.

Tyler Dickerhoof (35:27.544)
Because if that no longer fits you and sometimes things change in life, different, you know, living dynamics and you're like, okay, well, I don't fit. That's okay. And having that vulnerability to say, Craig Rochelle offers this at times. It's like, you know, a leader's job is to tell the truth. They don't need to tell all the truth though. And part of that is this authentic vulnerability is you need to be vulnerable, but you're not a victim.

Jenni Catron (35:46.819)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (35:56.228)
That's good. Yep. Yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (35:57.396)
And, and part of that as leaders is being vulnerable enough to say, man, I screwed up. I didn't see it right. Man, I need to this. I'm going forward. And this is what I've learned from Craig. And this is what I've learned from some of the others, the leader that does that. I screwed up. I didn't do it right. This is where we're going. Most people will follow them and say, thank you for being honest. Let's go.

Jenni Catron (36:15.692)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's huge. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Yeah, yep, so good. All right, well, everybody's getting a little taste of what they're going to hear from you at Culture Matters Summit.

Tyler Dickerhoof (36:27.428)
Yeah. You know what I was most impressed about? Is that I did a really good job of fitting into your time.

Jenni Catron (36:32.334)
What's that?

Jenni Catron (36:36.602)
I mean, that's a tight timeframe for you.

Tyler Dickerhoof (36:39.011)
Like.

Tyler Dickerhoof (36:42.624)
what, what, really? That's where you're... Say, I'm long-winded, Jenny.

Jenni Catron (36:45.658)
I mean, no, I mean, you just have a lot of value to share, Tyler. So much value.

Tyler Dickerhoof (36:52.132)
Well, yeah, did I? But I share that to those that are listening because you're gonna get a lot of great content that is in very succinct windows. And I appreciate that because it's great.

Jenni Catron (37:00.398)
That's right.

Jenni Catron (37:04.974)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it is, I've had the opportunity to get a sneak peek of most everybody's talks and they're phenomenal, including yours.

Tyler Dickerhoof (37:15.842)
Let me ask you this. Doing that, what are you learning that you didn't know?

Jenni Catron (37:23.54)
by doing the conference or by...

Tyler Dickerhoof (37:27.268)
You know, just by going through people's content, like kind of diffusing all of that and saying, that's good. we need to talk more about that. that's a great perspective. that layers on what you already maybe thought or validated what you already thought. So what's that?

Jenni Catron (37:31.14)
Mm.

Jenni Catron (37:44.866)
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it, what's fascinating because we, you know, this, didn't overly direct the speakers on, on your topic. Like, you know, it was like, Hey, we invited people that we feel like, understand culture matters. Like you get it. And you're in spaces where you're in leadership conversations and you're adjacent to this conversation quite a bit. And, but we didn't like hyper direct.

Tyler, want you to speak exactly on this. You and I talked at... Does this fit? But that was on purpose, right? I want the people that we invite to the summit to speak on things that they're really passionate about. it's the subject matter that you're an expert in. What's been fascinating as I've listened to all of them is the constant theme that shows up through all of it is about leading ourselves well.

Tyler Dickerhoof (38:14.286)
Yeah, I had to clarify. I had to ask Kate, is this fit? Which is good. It's good.

Jenni Catron (38:41.4)
that it comes back to the leader, that everything rises and falls on leadership, and that it starts with us. That we all want phenomenal cultures. We want teams that are thriving and engaged. We want to enjoy the people we work with. We want to be able to link arms and move forward and accomplish mission together. But resoundingly, the theme throughout it has been, it comes back to how we're leading ourselves.

And that has just been, it's just been so fun to actually see it play out like that. And everybody brings a little unique perspective and their experience to it. But that's probably the big takeaway that just has been, I don't know, maybe reassuring to me because that is such a core belief of mine. But again, I didn't direct that with everybody. It's just kind of what's come back is that, hey, there's a sacredness. The listeners have heard me say this a lot that

I believe leadership is sacred work, right? Like we get this privilege of changing and affecting the lives of people in our sphere of influence. And so anyway, that was.

Tyler Dickerhoof (39:51.46)
Well, I mean, I think that's great and, you I took notes, right? I'm here to learn and why, what I wrote is why don't we? Why don't we lead ourselves well? And I think you, you, you.

Jenni Catron (39:56.568)
Hahaha

Jenni Catron (40:02.136)
Yeah. Right. It's a great question. Maybe it is a great question for us to like ponder from this conversation today.

Tyler Dickerhoof (40:10.476)
Yeah, and you know, I'm going to give, I'd love your quick thought because the quick thought you mentioned earlier is why we don't lead ourselves well. In my opinion is the self-awareness.

Jenni Catron (40:23.47)
Yeah, busyness. think sometimes in my case, I think I keep myself too busy to slow down and pay attention to what's really going on or how I'm really feeling or glean the self-awareness. Like that's my...

Tyler Dickerhoof (40:33.124)
Okay, okay, okay.

You wanna go on a word journey with me? So to me that's very much like I'm so busy doing what I'm doing that I'm real comfortable with the view in the mirror.

Jenni Catron (40:41.07)
Yeah, I do it.

Tyler Dickerhoof (40:54.532)
You know, we're on this platform and I don't know if you have this setting or not, but if you click on settings, you can go to the audio video and you can toggle back and forth between mirror video or not. And see, if you look at mine, as I look in the screen, the letters are IDL. If it's mirrored, it is backwards. And see what happens in our society, so often leaders are so busy that they see the view in the mirror.

Jenni Catron (41:07.028)
huh, yep.

Jenni Catron (41:13.614)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (41:22.136)
They see the backwards idea and they're like, that's just the way it is. Cause every time I look in, in the mirror, that's what it is. But the reality is that's only our perception. That's our intentions. The reality is, is me sitting across from you and saying, Jenny, what do you see? Because then not that's the window. And that's the window that shows me I can't see what I am because of the mirror.

Jenni Catron (41:27.574)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (41:32.064)
Yeah, our view. Yep.

Jenni Catron (41:40.186)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (41:49.284)
Mm-hmm.

Tyler Dickerhoof (41:49.442)
And yet when I'm so busy, I don't take the time to just sit across from you and say, hey, what are you experiencing? What do you see? What do you recognize that I can't because it's a blind spot? And I wrote this yesterday and it's funny is.

Jenni Catron (41:54.34)
What do you see? Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (42:10.658)
Blind spots come to us and we may think it's kind of like this again, the mirror, right? If you look in the mirror and you're getting ready in the morning and you may get very used to, say you have a blemish or a scar. Say you have a scar, like a few scars. And they're there for so long in your life, you get used to them.

Jenni Catron (42:24.794)
Mm-hmm.

Jenni Catron (42:30.82)
Totally.

Tyler Dickerhoof (42:31.404)
And someone says, Hey, you know, Tyler, you have a scratch like right here, right here. I'm like, that was from eight. And I ran and I hit the branch of a tree and I told my mom, don't put anything medicine on it. Cause I want to scar cause scars are cool. And they're like, okay. That's a good story. But that's because I'm used to it in the mirror. The difference is when somebody tells you something through the window, you're like, I've never seen that in the mirror. that, that, that's.

Jenni Catron (42:42.052)
Hahaha

Jenni Catron (42:48.91)
That's right.

Jenni Catron (42:54.644)
yeah, that's how they see it. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (43:00.514)
that, ooh, ooh. And so to me, do we put ourselves in those positions to actively every day grow and get better? Because we're sitting down and we're looking through the window and not the mirror and where I think it gets even worse for executives and this happens in cultures is when we're so used to the mirror.

Jenni Catron (43:17.082)
That's right.

Tyler Dickerhoof (43:29.796)
that our window gets all covered in bugs. Imagine driving down the road. It's all covered in bugs. And so you end up driving down the road looking in the roof of your mirror because there's no bugs on that. And all of sudden the bugs are on the front and you're like, but I'm driving down the road and everything behind us looks good because you can't see through the window. And then all of sudden you run into something and you're like, but my mirror is clear. But your window, it hears where it's worse.

Jenni Catron (43:33.114)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jenni Catron (43:46.522)
you

Wow.

Yep, gosh. Yeah, yep. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (44:01.678)
Here's where it's worse, and I would say this happened to me. Did you get in such a bad accident that your mirror shattered?

Jenni Catron (44:08.206)
you

Wow. Wow.

Tyler Dickerhoof (44:13.412)
And so then all of a sudden you're like, what value do I have? What worth do I have? Your confidence is nothing. And it's because you didn't do the work to keep your window clean.

Jenni Catron (44:16.506)
Yeah, questioning everything, yeah.

Jenni Catron (44:27.064)
Yeah. Yeah. And inviting people to give you the feedback, right? Like how many of us get so isolated and don't have the person who is looking through the window and giving us, just telling us what they see.

Tyler Dickerhoof (44:39.478)
And it can't be just one. Because that's when we fall into the pattern of just classic yes men. They just tell you what you want to hear. It's like, it needs to be multiples. Because each one of their perspectives, imagine sitting around a table.

Jenni Catron (44:46.872)
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Tyler Dickerhoof (44:57.986)
and each of their perspectives are different.

Jenni Catron (44:59.202)
Mm-hmm, you have a different angle. Yep.

Tyler Dickerhoof (45:02.114)
And it's why I learned that from John Maxwell. And I've created that as part of my community because it was transformative for me. I didn't learn from reading books. I didn't learn from, you know, God just sharing me. I learned by sitting around a table and saying, what do you see that I can't see?

Jenni Catron (45:09.956)
So good.

so powerful.

Jenni Catron (45:21.114)
Yeah. So powerful. Tyler, good grief. You just spoke into all of us in a meaningful way today. Thank you so much for that. We didn't get to talk about this, so maybe just tell people where they can learn a little bit more about Impact Driven Leader. You've got a podcast, you have courses, you have lots of resources to support leaders. So give us a little overview of how they can connect more with you.

Tyler Dickerhoof (45:46.948)
Two things, go to my website, tylerdickerhoff.com, hopefully in the show notes. It's pretty easy to spell once you spell it. But the other thing is YouTube. That's kind of the repository for everything I have. Release kind of a commentary on Mondays, release a podcast later in the week. A lot of my shorts, a lot of my content obviously push through YouTube is a great way. Of course, all the others, LinkedIn, Instagram, but YouTube is the main repository for everything. Just as simple and easy that way.

Jenni Catron (45:52.312)
Yeah, for sure. Yep.

Jenni Catron (46:06.584)
Awesome.

Jenni Catron (46:14.618)
Great. Perfect. Awesome. Tyler, thanks for investing in us today. Thank you for being a part of Culture Matters Summit. Everybody's gonna get to hear more from you there. And I'm just grateful for your friendship, for your commitment to equipping leaders to be healthy, to be vulnerable, to be self-aware because you're making us better. So thanks for your investment in us today.

Tyler Dickerhoof (46:38.766)
Well, thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. And thank you for your friendship. Thank you for spending time and building a relationship with me because it does make me better. And I'm grateful to be able to walk with you.

Jenni Catron (46:42.33)
for sure.

Jenni Catron (46:51.48)
Thanks so much, Tyler.

Jenni Catron (04:17.838)

All right, friends, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. So much good insights and helpful perspective. It's always so good to hear from a leader who's been there, right? And is willing to help guide us to a healthier place as well. And so I know you took lots of notes. Share this episode with a friend, maybe a coworker, maybe somebody on your team who just would benefit from.

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