The 7% Club
The 7% Club
Episode 40: Dare to Scale
In this episode, I interview Warsha Joshi: Business Scaling Coach for founder CEOs, Family Business Succession Coach, Best-selling Author and Non-Executive Director.
Warsha’s Core Purpose? To help turn small and medium-sized enterprises into successful legacy businesses; the life-blood of strong and sustainable economies.
Warsha is an established business scaling coach in the region successfully helping 7-figure businesses break-through scaling ceilings while coaching entrepreneurs turn into strong business leaders. Being an entrepreneur herself for close to four decades, she understands that early-stage scaling is tough and she is driven by a relentless and result-driven passion for enabling business leaders to achieve their milestones, especially second-generation CEOs of family-run businesses.
Warsha’s expertise lies in her ability to tackle challenging business scenarios with a creative, analytical mindset. Possessing the rare ability to think big-picture and being able to zoom into the detailed view, she has helped founder CEOs through the balancing act which is scaling.
Certified as a Business Exit Planning and Scaling Advisor, Warsha co-founded the business coaching and mentoring company, Dare To Scale to bring the detailed Five Elements Framework to for high-growth companies.
She has called UAE her home for close to three decades and lives in Dubai with her husband, four cats and a horse.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/warshajoshi/
Insta: @warshajoshi
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💡 Need help scaling your business from 7 to 8 figures? Get in touch jenny@jennystilwell.com.au
Remember: Better strategy, better business, better life! See you next time!
Hi there, this is Jenny Stilwell and welcome to the 7% Club podcast for the 7% of business owners who break through 2 million in sales and for those on track to join this club. This podcast is to help you upscale.
Unknown:Music
Speaker 01:In today's episode of the 7% Club, I'm interviewing Walsha Joshi. Walsha is a family business advisor, certified business exit planning and scaling coach. Since 1986, she's founded and scaled four independent businesses and successfully exited two. Her core purpose is to help turn small and medium-sized enterprises into successful legacy businesses, the lifeblood of strong and sustainable economies. Hi, Walsha. Welcome to the podcast. It's fabulous to have you here. I'm so looking forward to talking to you.
Speaker 00:Thank you for having me, Jenny. It really is so wonderful to finally be able to get the date and get talking.
Speaker 01:So maybe we just start with your business. Why is it called Dare to Scale?
Speaker 00:Thank you, first of all, for asking and starting with that because business is personal. And the one thing that goes unrecognized is the courage that it takes, not just to start, but to keep going. Keep going is the bit that most people really underestimate in many ways. So for me, it really is showing the courage, facing every challenge that you face, and yet knowing that it's only a phase and it will pass and to keep going. That's why it is called Dare to Scale.
Speaker 01:I think that's absolutely brilliant because it isn't easy. It isn't easy and starting a business might be easy. Getting out when you think it's too hard, when it's still small, that's not too difficult. But keeping on going year in, year out and actually growing it and adding people and really committing, that takes a lot of courage, as you said. So I really love that. So let's talk about your role as a family business coach and exit strategy advisor, scaling advisor. What are some of the main challenges, particularly in family businesses, that you see?
Speaker 00:First, it is actually being able to talk to each other. Communication becomes the first biggest hurdle. Communicating work and the challenges at work and how we show up at work is within a family structure is possibly the most challenging thing for people to address. It has such a strong ripple effect because it affects family relationships. It affects the executive team in an organisation. And overall, it has a massive effect, a compounded effect on the actual growth of the business.
Speaker 01:And, you know, in those multi-generational businesses, just in a very... micro scale, you see the older generation frustrated at the puppies jumping around, you know, we want to do this and we want to do that. You see the younger generation going, oh God, you know, dad's this or mum's that, or, you know, they need to change with the times and we've got to do this. And you can see where they're coming from, the different perspectives. And it would be incredibly difficult to build the bridge between So they can cross over and see those different perspectives and then somehow get to some agreement.
Speaker 00:It is challenging. One of the things that really helps is to put business first. This is about your business. This is not about you as a parent and a child. This is not about you as siblings. This is really you're putting your business first because we are not having a dinner table conversation. We're having a boardroom conversation. So you're playing roles over here. You are holding roles within the organization. People look up to you not just because you own a business, but they also look up to you because you're essentially the ones giving that direction. So let's make this about business first. Family businesses essentially are built for legacy anyway. And having happy people work within an organization is at the forefront. So the minute you make it about the people, about the livelihood, about people coming to work because they feel at home over here, then instantly changes that narrative in people's heads. So yes, communication is the first place to start.
Speaker 01:And does it take a long time for you to get to a point where they are thinking and communicating more about the business first? Or does it vary depending upon the family and the business and the dynamics?
Speaker 00:One way or the other. Yeah. you're looking to change some lifelong habits. So yes, it does take time. And you've got to give it that time because no matter how much we sit and talk, eventually it really is about people coming to their own realizations. So give enough fodder, if you will, for thought and guidance to say, walk down this path with me and see what the world looks like and allow that time to pass. for those realizations to come through. Because when that happened is only when real change begins to take place. So yes, it does take time. And I
Speaker 01:guess the end game. So there's scaling up the business sort of once you've done that initial groundwork and it becomes about the business and looking at the strategy and the growth. And then the exit planning. I imagine the exit planning conversation is more delicate than the scaling up.
Speaker 00:Always is and always will be, again, because everything is so personal. So essentially what is family business? It is more than two people within the same family running an organisation. That essentially turns it into a family business. So recognising that business is personal and yet it doesn't have to be emotional business. Easier said than done, of course. So it is personal. In fact, I want it to be personal. Only then we begin to look at what have you created? Your blood, sweat and tears have gone into create something 40 years ago, 50 years ago. And it's important to address that with a view for it to not be limited to you. So exit planning is not necessarily either selling the business or getting out of the business completely. That's possibly the softer way of starting this conversation with families. So it really is not looking to remove you, but it really is allowing you to step back enough so it doesn't depend on you constantly and gives you the option to say, wow, I've got a lot of free time now. Or what next? Because at every single point, most founders, especially the original founders, the first generations, rarely look at their own life as there could be a life outside of this. And yet, because of the experience, there is so much they can give. There are so many ways that impact can be created, and yet unable to because they're so entangled in that business.
Speaker 01:And I love that question of what next, because there's so much freedom and creativity and potential in what next. But people don't often ask that question. I don't know whether it's a falsely defined period of time in a business and then it's not. But as you said, there's so much for what next. Do you find that founders... are willing at the right time to go down that path of what next and be energized by it?
Speaker 00:When the picture is shown that there is life after business, yes. Until that time, again, until that self-realization actually occurs, there is a very strong need to hold on. But yes, it's opening up that life is not over. If I give a parallel to a... Lifelong executive, somebody who's had a very, very strong career in a corporate field. We talk about retirement. And in most cases, people don't know what to do after retirement. And many, many lives sort of go through a major upheaval because we don't know. We wake up in the morning, shower, and then what? Go where? It's a similar situation. And this is their entire life for the first generation. And in most cases, they are spouses as well. who are together in the business. That's what they know. Wake up, shower, get to work. That's all the central theme of their life is. And it can be so much more because there is mentorship, there is industry leadership, there's thought leadership, there is so much that opens up. Philanthropy is a very big space that opens up and it becomes an easier conversation after that.
Speaker 01:How did you get into this specialised niche? Because I know you're, you know, queen of strategy. How did you get into this specialised niche of working predominantly with family-owned businesses?
Speaker 00:Jenny, I am third generation in my own family business. That is what I know best. When you are born and brought up in a family business scenario, that's all you hear. Whether you're having breakfast or dinner, that's the conversation. And it's ingrained in the space to a degree where you get an insider view and you learn what to do and, of course, what not to do. And why I am into this is because while I am third generation family business, the first generation possibly could have done a better job of succession planning. And I learned from all the mistakes over there. to a degree where I thought, well, if I'm able to jump in now and do something about this and save somebody else's business, somebody else's lives to a degree, which it affected my life, then why I can have a good night's sleep. So that's why I said, well, this is what I know best.
Speaker 01:Well, that's really interesting because I heard you interviewed. I can't remember who interviewed you, but I remember listening to the part where you were very young and I seem to remember there was this family business had impacted your parents and of course then you. And can we talk about that a little bit? Because I remember thinking, wow, you know, she's very entrepreneurial at a very early age and very resourceful. Can you touch on that? Because I think that's a really interesting part of your story.
Speaker 00:Happy to. I get asked this a lot. When did you become comfortable talking about this? And I thought, I like that because most of us today, especially, we only talk about the great wins that we have in our lives. And yet that's not the place we learn from, is it?
Speaker 01:No, and it's not the most interesting place.
Speaker 00:No, it really isn't. And I think, well, why don't we talk about this? Because would I turn back and change a single day of my life? No, I wouldn't because everything that happened then has shaped who I am today. So it's important because there are so many people who might be going through this and it's useful to know that there really is life after that dark phase. So, yes, it started at a very early age for me. I think I was about 12 years old when– I was sent away to live with my sister because my parents couldn't afford to keep me. This, coming from a space where I was literally born with a golden spoon in my mouth, not even a silver spoon. It was a very, very wealthy family. And by the age of 16, there really was nothing left. Nothing left. To a point where we had to borrow 500 rupees and... start something. Because it was my mom. My mom still is with us and as entrepreneurial as she has ever been all her life. And it was she who said, you know what, Varsha, we've got to do something now. Because we've got nothing and we've got to eat. This was 1986. I was 16 years old. If I were to write a book, the title would be Five Rupees. Because the first five rupees that I earned meant my parents and I could eat that day. Five rupees, believe me, if you convert it into today, it's Less than cents. It doesn't even add up. But that's how it started. I'm glad it started like that. I wouldn't have realized what life is about, how much of an impact certain decisions taken or not taken in a business can affect and what the ripple effects are for generations ahead.
Speaker 01:And what was that first entrepreneurial sale you made that enabled the family to eat?
Unknown:Yes.
Speaker 01:I'm fascinated. What was it? Come on.
Speaker 00:I'm a trained beauty therapist. I'm a SEDESCO certified beauty therapist and probably popular everywhere now. You use thread to shape your
Speaker 01:eyebrows. Yeah.
Speaker 00:And that's what it was. And I charged five rupees for that. The first time I did somebody's eyebrows and I earned five rupees and I thought, well, there you go.
Speaker 01:That's an amazing lesson at 16 to have, I mean, number one, to have your parents or your mother say, well, we're at that point. We have to do something. That's a very confronting thing for anyone, but let alone a 16 year old, but then to be resourceful enough to actually go out and do something and have that, not that intellectual learning, but that learning from having experienced it and done it to know, okay, I can do this.
Speaker 00:Yeah, it is. And it is confronting, totally. And I'd just finished high school. So I never actually attended university. I was working 16 hours a day, straight up from finishing school to working 16 hours a day. That was it. Would I change that? No. Has that probably made me a very driven individual who my living with becomes a little difficult? Possibly. Possibly.
Unknown:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Very resourceful skill set. You said that, you know, there could have been some decisions that were better. What happened with that family wealth? Was it that founder generation that made some errors of judgment or? Yeah. Okay. And then that had a.
Speaker 00:The successor chosen was not the right one. And when I say right or wrong, it's not an individual's fault, if you will. But it really is, does this person even want to be your successor? Have you even asked that person? What does this person actually want to do in life? And we live in a very different world today where the second generation is fairly open about it. Second, third generation, I really want nothing to do with this. This is not what floats my boat. So I want to go out and do something. My father didn't have that option. And here we are talking 1950s, late 40s, 50s. So he... also was brought into the business when he was 12 years old. It was a very old school business. And first of all, what was the business? It was gold trading. And those were well before gold control came into India. So I have grown up with stories of my dad telling us that there would be little ingots of gold and he would chip away pieces, weigh them and sell. That's what's a family business. And later, my granddad then went ahead and started a private bank.
Speaker 01:Of course he did.
Speaker 00:Of course he did. The thing really is, and again, remember, this is mid-century, last century in India, where women or daughters didn't actually have an option of joining a family business. It had to be a son. And it came on my dad's shoulders. My dad, while he enjoyed what he did, that's not what he wanted in life at all. He was on his way to Oxford for English literature. That's what he was. And that brings us very nicely into another conversation that seems to be at the top of the list these days is about being able to say no. And the strength it takes to say no, particularly within a family business scenario or just any scenario. And my father wasn't strong enough to say no.
Speaker 01:No, it would have been so difficult and even in businesses that aren't family businesses or even in corporate, you see people, they don't say no and they end up in positions that they don't really want to be in. It draws away all their energy. It doesn't make them happy and they're not successful and it shouldn't have happened in the first place. But sometimes people are just on that road path and they can't get off. And so what happened to that family business?
Speaker 00:Oh, it's gone, wrapped up and done.
Speaker 01:Yeah. So that brings me to my next question. The four businesses that you've scaled to seven figures.
Speaker 00:So remember that salon I said I started? That's the one that first went into seven figures because I ran that for 11 years and I grew it. I was on a mission. Once I was on the path, there was no looking back. And that was the first one to have reached the seven figures. And along with that, about a year into starting the business, and I have to say, credit where it's due, my mom played a big role in that entire mentoring into being a successful business owner. I don't have the first clue of how to, but I know what to. I know how to teach. I know what to teach. So we started a training institute, a beauty training institute, a technical training institute. And that was a second one to a point where my institute was the only one in the entire southern India to be accreted for SEDESCO certification from Switzerland. And mine was the only one. That really overtook the salon several times over because you can know the power and running an education institution.
Speaker 01:So what were the key drivers of that growth? Was it word of mouth? Purely
Speaker 00:word of mouth.
Speaker 01:So the training organisation would have been quite separate and unique, I imagine, with the accreditation from Switzerland. But the beauty salon, were there others around at the time?
Speaker 00:Salons? Oh, yes.
Speaker 01:So was your service phenomenal?
Speaker 00:Service phenomenal, state-of-the-art technology. Customer-oriented service, if you really strip it down, today we call it sort of five-star service, but it really was to say, I'm going to be different because this is how I am in my life. If I were to go to a salon, how would I like that salon to be? From a simple greeting at the door to eventually somebody leaving and leaving with a thought to, not just return, but actually leave with a next appointment. Everything was customer centric to a degree where that is eventually what really started to set us apart.
Speaker 01:Yeah. And that was purely down to your view of the world and what you would like rather than a strategic focus. It was what's going to be the best.
Speaker 00:Yeah. And let's now move to that particular area that you said Instead of strategic, isn't this also a part of strategy anyway? Making it purely about customers. Today, I will give the best service because I want that person to come back. And knowing what kind of customers I really wanted. So in those days, we didn't think about strategy. We didn't talk about strategy in those ways. But essentially, that's exactly what I was doing. I knew exactly what kind of customers I wanted. to walk through those doors. And I knew what level of service they would expect. I knew what level of paying capacity they are bringing in with them. I knew what capacity I needed to build within to reach a certain level of market capture. Would you believe? I literally thought like that, but never in my faintest dreams did I ever call it strategy.
Speaker 01:And... As you said, that's where companies need to start today. I think that's got to be the starting point. But, you know, whether they've been going for 10 years or 10 months or however big they are, a lot of the time they lose sight of who is that ideal customer. What do they look like? What do they need? What do they want? And the focus becomes more, you know, about the product or the service or the competitors, all that kind of thing. But it's, hey... It's all about the customer. That's got to be the starting point.
Speaker 00:It is all about the customer. And also, I'm a firm believer and there is no such thing as competition anyway. Because if you know your niche really, really well, and you are able to serve your customer and answer those needs, there's no competition.
Speaker 01:Yeah, I agree with you. But that's the trick, isn't it?
Speaker 00:That's the trick. That is totally the trick. It's always the right time to look at your customer. Because the market is dynamic. We are humans. We change every minute of the day. Are we changing with our customers? Do we know what the customers are thinking right here, right now? And the other layer that opens up is I work predominantly with much larger companies where the customer is the business, not so much the consumer. They're feeding the business, which eventually their product reaches the customers.
Speaker 01:Mm-hmm. And I think everyone's so focused on getting their product or service out to the market and doing the marketing and conversion and sales conversations and all of that. And it's so, when I say it's basic, I mean, you and I know it's fundamental, but it's not necessarily easy. But I think in the process of being busy and doing the doing, so many companies lose sight of having the customer perspective and stepping out of their business and being the customer. And once they do, it's so important because the insights are so valuable. So valuable.
Speaker 00:It is. That's the only insight, if anything, is what goes a long way into keeping your business, not just afloat, but continuing to grow. Because if you don't know what your market is asking for, what are you running a business for then? Who are you running this for then?
Speaker 01:Yep. So we've touched on two of your businesses. What were the other two?
Speaker 00:So the first two businesses I've sold and I've exited. The third one is what I set up over here, which is now 15 years old. And that is a fully outsourcing business. So it started as outsource executive assistants and it is fully based here in the UAE. So the first two businesses just I ran with the flow and the flow was wonderful and it just grew. But this was a very strategic decision to start this because when I started this, the world was going through its own financial challenges at that stage. And I thought, well, there are a lot of people losing their jobs and there are lots of little companies opening up. Surely people are going to need some assistance. That's pretty much how it started 15 years ago. I very quickly realized that... The customer I'm choosing to serve actually don't have the money to pay. So I'm not going to become a millionaire by serving that customer. No offense to the customer. It's just that's not the audience I wanted to tap into because this is not right because this is never going to grow. The other conscious decision that I took for this particular business is, which unlike the previous two, is I am not going to be serving a customer over here. I'm not going to do that because that keeps me away from thinking strategically, thinking about growing the business. So there's very little room for me to think about the business on the business. So, yeah, so that's how it started. And I thought, no, something's got to change. I'm not talking to the right client here. I'm not talking to the right customer over here. And over time, it gradually moved on to serving consultancies only. So your big name consultancies where then we got into bulk outsourcing.
Speaker 01:Yes, yes. Very clever strategy.
Speaker 00:Yes. So I thought, okay. And also that took me down the path where I thought, well, also with virtual assistants, we got to change that narrative because somewhere along the line, the world had got into this weird space, which I thought was terrible. You get a great assistant for $5 an hour. And I thought, no, don't. Not from a space of... Don't hire that talent, but also, more so, please pay the right, the fair price. It's not okay, because there is somebody on the other side who clearly has talent. And please, let's not box this into some sort of a, don't care where in the world the person is based in. But please, let's be fair about how we pay. Because in one way or the other, we're all contributing towards a local economy and overall towards an industry. So I was really not happy with the way the industry was going. So I said, no, I'm going to change the narrative one way or the other because we should never, ever, ever fall into that trap that cheaper is always better. And cheaper is an easier way to get out, get something into my business and scale cheaper. Because that was the narrative in those days.
Speaker 01:Yeah. And that company still exists?
Speaker 00:It does. It does. We are now 80 odd people, all women. That was the other thing that I took up to say, well, these are women I'm employing. And these are women who are looking to make a comeback into the workspace after having taken a break for whatever reason. And it is that much more difficult, particularly for women to come back into, or actually men as well, to come back into the workspace. after having taken a break because we're so conditioned to look at CVs and say, well, what did you do for those three months? None of your business. I'm good at what I do. And so
Speaker 01:where are those women based?
Speaker 00:All here.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 00:All here. Absolutely all here. But we just, we don't work from an office.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 00:We have an office, but we don't ever work from an office. Not a single day have we actually worked from an office. Doesn't matter. where we worked off.
Speaker 01:Is that the company that was in the Great Places to Work top 10?
Speaker 00:Yes.
Speaker 01:And that's so interesting that everyone is remote and it is a challenge. You know, people talk about, you know, I've interviewed a few people who have remote teams and what their strategies are to keep everyone together and engaged and feel like they're part of a team. You know, I think some of those things are part of it, but to really foster that culture of belonging, it is a challenge. And I think it has to be around, not that I'm doing it, but I think it has to be around a really strong culture and how people communicate. But you won the award. You tell me.
Speaker 00:There is a lot of talk floating about the internet, about hire for culture fit. You can always teach people what to do. There are so few companies who actually take that to heart. I'd like you to have basic experience about what we're looking for. At the same time, you might be the greatest technical skilled person in the world, but if you don't fit into my company's culture, there is no place for you here. And we took that to a degree where we have turned down some amazing, amazing people. And I thought, no, they are amazing people on their own right, but the company together is not going to remain amazing if I allow that culture to creep in. And at some point, it all starts with the thin end of the wedge. And we were very conscious about that thin end. And it was a conversation throughout the company. Everything was about, do we see this individual as part of the team? Do we see this individual when we send out, I've logged in, good morning messages? If we do, let's talk. If we don't, then let's not waste anybody else's time.
Speaker 01:Yeah. The power of saying no.
Speaker 00:The power of saying no, you bet. But yes, it really is about the minute we don't say no to something, we're silently saying yes to something. And silently, that becomes your company's culture. So if we are okay with people showing up late for work, And then say, well, we need a culture where actually you do have a culture where you're accepting, we're tolerating behavior like this. At which point are we then saying, no, you show up because we all do.
Speaker 01:Yeah. And congratulations on that. That's a huge achievement. It really is. The fourth company.
Speaker 00:That is the current one, our coaching company. My husband and I work together. We also have our team behind this. And we predominantly work with scaling and coaching companies that are 100 million and above. So initially, we started with the three $5 million turnover companies, but we're now well into in our 15th year, we're well into the mid to large scale company space. But yes, it is this one. Now, the current fourth one, which I don't think I'm going to be exiting anytime soon. I love it.
Speaker 01:That's fantastic, Walsha. That's just great. I love the fact, I mean, the story of how you started the first two and the role your amazing mother played in this was amazing. Maybe I'll get her on to a podcast. But also, you know, the other two, the strategic thinking around the outsourcing one and the business you've got now and the growth and... the fabulous outcomes that you get for people. It's so interesting and so impressive. I want to ask you, I think everyone's got a flavor of it, but what is it that drives you to succeed or to do what you're doing? I should rephrase it. What is it that drives you to have the daring to keep going year after year and to keep growing? What drives you to do that?
Speaker 00:It's several things. One is purely, purely personal. because of what I actually saw happen in my own family's business. Second is the continuous need for keeping my own curiosity alive and awakening that level of curiosity in people around me. It's like whatever happens today is only a situation. By giving it labels, we are stopping our own growth, stopping our own businesses from growth. So moving the labels and being curious enough to say, this has happened. We're humans. We have this innate capacity for being resourceful and finding a solution. It's important that we recognize this in each of us. And the third is knowing that there is immense amount of talent. And this is the other thing in business is recognizing and growing talent within. So I take that role really, really seriously. We have great teams, executive teams, and yet so few times do we actually allow them to shine because they're the ones who are actually going to take the company forward. They're the ones who are actually building that legacy for you. Underlying all that is every single business, particularly privately held businesses, are the continuous source of strength for the local economy. Every dirham, every dollar, every pound turned within that organization is about what eventually feeds into the local economy. If you just take India, for example, I am Indian, I don't live in India anymore, but if you just take that country, for example, 70% of businesses are privately held businesses. So you can imagine how strong that economy is purely because of privately held, family held businesses. So the success or failure of even a small percentage has massive impact.
Speaker 01:Yeah. And I think we lose sight of that, don't we?
Speaker 00:We do. We really, really do. So it doesn't matter where in the world my client companies are based. The fact is everybody is contributing towards the local economy. I have been told, well, that's a micro focus. And I thought, yes, because collective micro focus eventually gives you a macro effect, right? So, yes, I do focus on the local economy because that's where it all starts.
Speaker 01:And I think on that note, I just want to thank you so much for your time. It's been great. I knew I'd enjoy talking to you about all this. It's fabulous. And just how do people contact you? We'll put your contact details in, but LinkedIn profile?
Speaker 00:LinkedIn and undeniable as it is, I am also on Instagram, but LinkedIn. Yeah,
Speaker 01:LinkedIn like me. Okay, that'll go on the show notes. Thank you so much, Walsh. It's been fabulous.
Speaker 00:Thank you very much for this conversation, for inviting me for this conversation. And as always, Jenny, we end up talking about everything and nothing under the sun. And yet we come out with such wonderful topics. So thank you so much.
Speaker 01:You're welcome. It's been great. We'll have to have another chat.
Speaker 00:We do. Bye for now.
Speaker 01:And that's all for today's episode of the 7% Club. Thank you so much for listening. And as always, wherever you are in the world, remember, better strategy, better business, better life.