4 Language Learning Podcasters on Motivation, Accessibility, and Starting a Podcast: S7E4

On September 30, 2020 I was thrilled to lead a language learning Podcasters panel for International Podcast Day. You can watch the video of this panel on YouTube, https://youtu.be/hR8fr0Hapo0, OR you can listen to this on this episode. Thank you to Dave and Steve, the geniuses behind IPD, for holding yet another amazing year's sessions of Podcasters from around the world. And for allowing us to use the audio versions of our panel on our podcasts. Since you are language lovers, you may want to check out the other IPD sessions on YouTube IN other languages. 

• Steph Fuccio (USA, Germany): https://www.coffeelikemedia.com/
• Chenelle Patrice Hancock (USA): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chenelles-language-learning-journey-podcast/id1379919326
• Kerstin Cable (United Kingdom): https://www.kerstincable.com/
• Azren the Language Nerd (Canada): https://www.youtube.com/c/azrenthelanguagenerd

Original publication date: October 13, 2020

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Transcript

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Dave: 

Hello everybody. Welcome to International Podcast Day 2020. What an event and celebration it has been. Thank you all so much for tuning into our live broadcast for also using the hashtag International Podcast Day to be a part of the event. We have an amazing panel coming up this hour. Language learning, not teaching podcasts from around the world. This is one of the coolest things. We have Steph, Azrin, Chanel and Kirsten. So we have Germany, Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom all represented in one panel. So the four of you, how are you all doing today?

SPEAKER 2

Good.

SPEAKER 3

Doing good.

SPEAKER 1

Excellent. Excellent. Well, before I turn over the stream to you, I did want to go ahead and give a shout out to our sponsors that are making International Podcast Day a success this year. We head over to international podcast day.com sponsors to check out our platinum sponsor, which is Blubrry. They have the most flexible tools in podcasting. Check out one of their promo codes to get a free 30 day trial. Also check out Focusrite. They're audio engineers by trade, but they're very much diving into the podcast spaces of right now. And also our gold sponsor, Podiance, and they are also a podcast hosting and analytics company. So. And of course, thanks to our sponsor for making it happen. But also thanks to our 60 plus podcasters from 26 different countries this year. With, without their time, without their energy and without their efforts, International Podcast Day would not be as successful as it is. So I don't want to take up any more of your time. So I want to turn the stream over to Steph and happy International Podcast Day, everybody.

SPEAKER 4

And right back at you. And Dave and Steve, thank you so much again for an amazing year of many podcasters around the world and a lively chat room. I've been up since 5am and dipping into different sessions and it's been fantastic. So let me tell you all a little bit about it, what we're going to do today and then we'll go around and meet the lovely folks that you see around me here. So my name is Steph Fuccio and my podcast is called Geopath.

SPEAKER 5

Dun Dun.

SPEAKER 4

Almost there we go right here. It's an interview podcast with language learners around the world. I was a language instructor for about 15 years in different countries overseas. I'm originally from the US and lived in Asia and a few other regions and taught for a long time. And I started the podcast because even after all that time, there were lots of conversations that I couldn't have with my students in a classroom environment. I wanted to dig into how they were Experiencing learning a language, what their experiences were with other languages. And I had more questions than time in the before and after time and starting classes. So I found that the podcast gave me the time to sit down with people one on one and really get to know them and their relationship with to language. And that's a lot of what I try to dig into on Geopaths language. But that's only one format for a language learning podcast. And the folks that I have invited to join us today have unique elements that they add to their language learning podcasts. And so we'll find out a little bit about that. Please note, we're not talking so much about teaching a language. We're talking about different aspects of learning a language. We're talking about language experience, we're talking about process. So our goal today is to encourage you, whether you're a language enthusiast, a language learner, or a polyglot, to start your own language learning podcast. So I'm going to put on my interviewer hat and I will be asking Azrin, Chanel and Kirsten different questions about their unique language learning podcast. So with that in mind, let's meet the lovely folks around me. Azrin, can you please introduce your yourself and your podcast.

SPEAKER 3

For sure. So my name is Azarin. I live in in a city called Calgary, which is on the west side of Canada, close to the Rocky Mountains. My podcast is called the Language Learning show. And basically it's, it's as the title implies, it is a podcast about language learning. Usually on my episodes we talk about language learning in general terms. It's not really language specific per se. So I share different practices that I personally use that work for me. And then I also share a lot of practices that I've seen work for others. Because I work, I run a small business called the Calgary Language Nerds. So we teach a bunch of different languages. And I teach a lot and I have taught a lot. So I've worked with lots of different language learners from all sorts of different backgrounds. So I'll share different strategies that work or that have worked for others that I've seen and then I'll just share any observations that I have on, on life in general. So any, any perspectives that I have on things that I'm seeing or any perspectives I have on life, I'll share those too. So it's a little bit of, a little bit of both.

SPEAKER 4

Great. And Chanel, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your podcast?

SPEAKER 2

Hello, everybody. I'm Chanel Patrice Hancock, the host of Chanel's Language Learning Journey Podcast. I'm from originally from Cleveland, Ohio. I live in Akron, Ohio. And my language learning podcast is pretty much about my journey of learning a language as someone that's legally blind but not totally blind. And I wanted to start it because I felt that there wasn't anybody talking about language learning from my perspective, how I learned using only auditory methods and less visual methods. So it's mostly interview format and my own life experiences and reviewing apps and different courses that may be accessible with text to speech software that people that might be legally blind or visually impaired or have another disability might be able to use to learn a language in a more accessible way. So that's pretty much what my podcast is pretty much about.

SPEAKER 5

Great.

SPEAKER 4

And Kirsten?

SPEAKER 5

Yes. So my name is Kirsten Cable and I host a podcast make a podcast called the Fluent show, which I say at the start of every show is about loving, living and learning languages. And we do a few different formats. I just mashed them all up because I couldn't decide. So I have a co host who joins me once a month and we chat about random things and things that happen. And slowly we're becoming the kind of relaxed but very philosophical chat about what it all means and mindset and really how to stick with language learning. And my own interest is in psychology and self development through language learning. So I'm less interested in how we can best make our brains perfectly remember every single piece of vocabulary ever, because I think that's a boring conversation. When we could talk about how to overcome the challenges, how to overcome our confidence challenges and all those kind of things, they're juicier to me. And every month I also have an interesting guest and in between I answer listener questions. So it's a bit of everything.

SPEAKER 4

Fantastic. And we've already got a comment in the chat room from. Oh, I lost it. Cyprian Asante. Thank you very much. He says this is already so fun. Thank you. So if you have any questions, folks who are listening and thank you for joining us, please leave comments or questions or anything. I'll be monitoring the chat room during and if I can't bring in the information or questions, then we'll bring them in at the end. We do have some time then that we'll discuss them. So let's jump into the questions. Everybody ready?

SPEAKER 2

Yes.

SPEAKER 4

All right, so question number one, and we'll go the opposite direction. So, Kirsten, you are now first. What can listeners. Well, sorry, what can listening to your podcast do for listeners?

SPEAKER 5

I'm gonna Go with the feedback I get from listeners, because I. I don't know. Oh, my gosh. What my podcast does for listeners, hopefully, is to bring the joy, bring the positivity, and bring the motivation of language learning so that you don't have the. You don't get into your head so much about whether you are performing well, whether you are achieving all of the results, whether you are hitting every single benchmark, and instead just give yourself the kind of space to relax and have fun with whatever language you're learning. And one of our taglines on. On the website is learn a language, or maybe three. And that is the. That is what I want to bring to people, to spread the word. That language learning is a lot of fun. It's really enjoy. And you get to make your own choices about how seriously you take this, how hard you want to, like, how deep you want to go into a language, that it's okay to dabble, and that if you want to learn 7 languages, go for it. Because why not?

SPEAKER 4

Chanel.

SPEAKER 2

I actually have to agree with Kirsten. I feel that with my show, I like to take the stress out of language learning because I see a lot of people stress over, you know, how many words do you have? How many phrases do you have? How fast can I learn this? Can I learn 10 languages in 10 years? Well, yeah, you could if you take like a year per language and only focus on that language. You know, I see a lot of people get depressed and frustrated because they're not meeting their goals. And my tagline is language learning is a journey, not a race. Enjoy the process, because that's what it is, a process. And it's not going to be like one day or a week or a month. It's going to take some time, depending on what language you're learning. Is it your first language? Is it your 15th language? Is it your fifth language? Does it belong to a different family of languages? You know, how motivated are you to learn that language? What resources do you have to learn that language? So at the end of the day, I would rather enjoy the process and let it be fun and more organic and more immersion as opposed to, I want to cram this in because I need to go to Hawaii, learn Hawaiian, get married and have five kids right away. No. And I need to learn this language because my in laws don't speak English. Okay, how long are you going to be in Hawaii? Is it for a vacation or are you going to stay there for the rest of your life? You know, so I try to make sure that you know, make it fun and more relaxing because without having, you know, a relaxed mind, you're not going to really remember much.

SPEAKER 4

You know, I had a guest on Geopat's mention his relationship with Mandarin, learning Mandarin Chinese as being a lifelong relationship, almost like a marriage that it would take just as long to get to know the language as it would to get to know someone that you would marry and then the relationship with grow would change over time. And I thought that was the most beautiful explanation of it because it's such a dense, different language when you're coming from English. And I was, I loved that. I love analogies with language learning. Azwin, how about you?

SPEAKER 3

I think in my case I think it's a lot. I think I have a, I have a very deep level of experience both with language learning but also on the teaching side of things and working with different people that with, with different sorts of backgrounds, so different ages, different experience levels, different countries that they're from different mother tongues. And so a lot of the things that I share come from a very deep level of personal experience and stuff that I've seen. So I have a lot of pattern, excuse me, I have a lot of pattern recognition in terms of oh, you're struggling with this. I've literally seen 127 other people struggle with this in this exact same way. And I just can tell you with a very high degree of accuracy this is probably what has to happen for you to kind of break through that language learning challenge that you're having. So a lot of the things I share in terms of language learning come from a deep level personal experience with working with language learners and of course my own language learning, my own language learning experience as me as a learner of course too. And also I think I just have some unique perspectives on non language learning related things that I like to talk about from time to time. So you know, like a great example, just, just the other day I just, I made a comment of like I forget how it even came up because I usually don't have a big script before I sit down. I have a general idea of what I want to say and then we see where things go. So somehow I stumbled across 22 year olds, the topic of 22 year olds saying, oh, I'm lost in life, I don't know what I want to do, I don't know what I want to do for work. I don't know how we ended up there, but somehow we ended up there. And like for me, like my pet, my perspective on it which is something I haven't heard that often is like, well, it's not that you're really lost, it's that you're super young. Like, is that you're inexperienced and you're like, you're not going to know. Probably you're gonna have another 10 years before you have an idea that you're not going to know for a long time now. Some people might, but most people aren't. So a lot of perspectives on these different topics that I'll often share as well as they come up. So, yeah, I think those are kind of the two biggest things.

SPEAKER 5

And Azrin, Steph. Steph has made very clear that we're allowed to follow up with each other. So I'm just going to totally break the system. Azran. And I guess, Steph, you, to a certain extent, you kind of come from a perspective of having taught and as from you too, whereas Chanel comes from the perspective of a language learner. And I find as well that if you have taught language and you have guided people through the process or you've done language, you know, you've done the coaching side, you've worked with people and you've really seen them, you've seen the way people hit the wall and kind of help people get through that wall. It gives another different perspective. So we have this wonderful. We have these wonderful two types of shows that are available, which is something like Chanel's, which is mostly a learner's show, really, sharing her own journey, sharing how she sees the world. Although Chanel interviews another big name in the language world every 20 minutes, it seems, but it's really good, but still coming at it from a learner's perspective. And I've seen other people do that too. Whereas I can't switch the teacher in me off. I can't switch the part of me off that knows exactly. Okay, Like I've seen, I've. I've guided people through this and to bring the two of them together, I think that makes a good, that makes a really cool language show.

SPEAKER 3

Yeah, I, I agree. And I think it's, I think it's interesting too, when you've done. It's interesting because certain people that, that, that teach language, they may or may not have a podcast or YouTube or anything like that, but certain people that teach language are not language learners. It's actually, I may, I might even go as far as to say the majority. I'm not sure if that's true, but let's say significant percentage of people, like a lot of Them. There's a good percentage of people that teach language that are not language learners. Like, they, they haven't learned another language or, and, or they're not actively learning a language in the moment. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, English teachers, for sure.

SPEAKER 5

English teachers.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah.

SPEAKER 3

And it's interesting. I think it's interesting when language teachers have been recently or currently are language learners, because you can really relate to stuff a lot easier. Like even me, like when I'm. When I've been teaching and I wasn't actively learning a language at that time. Like I had been maybe three months ago, three months before, but not in that moment when I find myself teach, like actively learning a language and I'm teaching people at that exact same timeframe. I notice I'm usually a better teacher. Cause I'll be like, oh, you know what? They're struggling with speaking. Just two days. They're embarrassed to speak. Just two days ago, I remember being frozen and not remembering how to speak. Yeah, okay. I can't just face. I can't just say, oh, just speak. It'll be okay. That's not going to work. Because if you told me that yesterday, I would have been like, screw you, and I wouldn't have. What do you mean? To speak as me. Okay. I'm terrified. So it's interesting.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I am. I slash was one of those people who taught language for a long time and couldn't get to fluency. I'm still not at fluency in a second language, embarrassingly, but there I am. But I love the process and I love learning about languages. So I've got this. This bag of knowledge about languages, but I can't hold a conversation in anything but English. But I'm trying. I'm still trying. I'm not giving up. But Chanel, you also, when we chatted recently on your show, you mentioned that you also do some tutoring online. Is that correct?

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, I did for a while. I actually used like, WhatsApp and Facebook, instant messenger and Skype. I actually started off by doing a lot of language exchanges because at the time I was deep into learning Russian independently. And so a lot of my students either were learning Spanish, which I took Spanish in college and I was fluent in. So I would help them with their English because that's what they were, you know, basically wanting me to help them with. And it would be a trade off, a language exchange. And then I would help the ones that were Russian oriented. And I actually wound up getting a boyfriend out of it, which was kind of cool. And actually, I met the whole family over Skype, and it improved my Russian. I do have to say I wasn't looking forward to diving into a personal relationship, but it happened.

SPEAKER 5

And.

SPEAKER 2

I have to say I learned more from that person than all the hours I put into immersion of Russian because I was forced to speak it. He would not let me speak English because he spoke English all day, so I would speak Russian. And it got to the point where his mom spoke no English, which was great for me. I spoke for her for three hours on Skype, and it was the most freeing experience that I ever had in my entire life. Knowing that all the work I put into learning Russian from an auditory perspective with no. No visual, you know, books or anything of that nature.

SPEAKER 5

It.

SPEAKER 2

My method paid off. And then I realized, well, you know, I really, you know, enjoy, you know, this. Why don't I try to share it in a podcast? And if it wasn't for Chris Broham, of actual fluency, I probably would have never, like, created a podcast because he had said the same thing. Well, you give so much advice. Why don't you create a podcast? And I had to find the right app because with my technology and my software, it had to be accessible. I had to be able to use it independently because I live alone, so I don't have sighted assistance. And so when I did, when I created that. That first episode, and I, Kirsten, was the first person I asked to be on my show, by the way. And so. So. And I was very grateful, trust me, and grateful to all the other people that came on since it. I knew nothing, zero about podcasting, editing. I knew about marketing, advertising, because I studied that in film when I got my film degree. And I do have my TEFL cert, but I just loved it, you know, it was just my way of saying, well, this is how I do it. But I might do it this way. But you might find something out of this interview or this story that might help you. And if it does, that's great. If it doesn't, at least you tried it. Yeah.

SPEAKER 4

Chanel, you know what you just did? You just did our next question organically. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER 2

Oh, you're welcome.

SPEAKER 4

The next question is, why did you start a language podcast? So thank you for Chanel, for starting us off. So, Azrin, why did you start yours? I've got something to tell you. Are you ready? I've got a special tip today for the Americans out there. Thinking, planning, actually in the process of moving abroad. Can I just tell you how much stress I have alleviated by using a product called Traveling Mailboxes. Oh my gosh. The snafu that we got into at one point when we got audited by the irs.

SPEAKER 2

Ah.

SPEAKER 4

If it wasn't for Traveling Mailbox, it would still be an ongoing issue. What they do is they give you an address in the US and you have all of your whatever's left of your paper ness going there. And trust me, you think you're all digital. There's some stuff that isn't. And I am reminded of this every time I get an email from them. So what happens is they give you the address, all your mail goes there. They open it and scan it and email it to you, and then you can decide if you want it forwarded, if you want it deleted, or what have you. I've even had a couple of checks come through there and they forward it to me overseas. So, I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of stuff you can do with this service and it has really, really saved me time and time again. So I've got a link for you in the show notes so you can sign up with the service and I am happy to share the information about them because this is a really useful tool. Enjoy.

SPEAKER 3

I started mine. Why did I initially start it? It was for, it was for work purposes. So like I said before, I'm self employed and I work. I run a small business called the Calgary Language Nerds. And so I think at the time, like, I made content on other platforms and I was like, I don't have a podcast. I wonder if that's something that. I wonder if that's a good idea. I'm like, I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER 4

Can we break down all the places that you exist in the language world? Because you've got a lot of, a.

SPEAKER 3

Lot of places, you name it. I'm there for the most part, I think. So, like, if you name it, I'm probably there. So content wise.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER 5

Sorry.

SPEAKER 3

Yeah, so Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, Podcast, TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn. I think it's all of them. Yeah, that should be all of them.

SPEAKER 4

Gotcha. Gotcha.

SPEAKER 3

Snapchat. If I didn't say it. Yeah.

SPEAKER 4

Okay. So the podcast was to support the language business.

SPEAKER 3

Yeah, Like, I was like, I just didn't. And I'm, I'm way more about like my whole thing is I'd rather go do something. I'd rather go do 22 things and have 20 of them not work. But Two of them work really well. I'm way more in that line of thought. For myself, personally, I don't know if it's right for everybody, but for me, I prefer that. And so I thought, well, let's go start one and let's see what happens, and let's see if I like it, and let's see what happens.

SPEAKER 4

And it's so natural. It's so natural. I mean, for all of your podcasts, I'll tell you, the reason why you're here is because I listen to you. I'm selfish.

SPEAKER 5

I like talking to people that I.

SPEAKER 4

Listen to, and I love how natural and how passionate all of you are on your language podcast. That's. It's just.

SPEAKER 5

It's.

SPEAKER 4

It's like I'm. You're in the room and I'm like, hey, how's it going today? So, Kirsten, how about you? Why did you start yours?

SPEAKER 5

I started. Started my podcast at a time this. It's been running for probably five, six years. So when podcasts weren't like the cool thing yet, but kind of in my house, they were the cool thing. My husband was really into podcasts. I was already into podcasts. Like, I remember this American life accompanying me on business trips and me listening on a really long trip through the metro in Moscow and stuff like that. It was. They were always with me. They were always company. And I'd loved podcasts even at the time, but I didn't have a big plan to start my own. And then I started a blog because I was. I was started off as a German teacher. I started blogging, and then I found some cool people I wanted to interview for my blog and very quickly realized that interviewing people and then having to transcribe the interview, not only. It's an awful lot of work. Oh, it's so much work. It really, like, people underestimate how much work it is if you do your own transcript. And also, I was paraphrasing because I'm not the world's greatest master of attention to detail. So I would. I. I have one particular person that I interviewed and wrote this big blog article and trans. Transcribed, paraphrase, transcribed what he was saying and sent him the blog article afterwards. Really proud, like, look, look, look, I've made all this. This is. This is you. You're a star on my blog, on my website. This is awesome. And he said, oh, yeah, you've made me sound really British. And I thought, jesus, this guy's from Chicago. So it wasn't really working. It wasn't really working. And then I thought, well, maybe somehow, maybe I can upload an audio file into this blog article. And as I was messing around with the audio block, I use Squarespace. I always have it said podcasting. So they've got this little tab there. Podcasting. I was like, whoa, Podcasting, Cool. And very quickly realized that I could make a podcast. And I'm using air quote. Air quotes here, because it wasn't. Again, it wasn't really a podcast at the time. It was more like, oh, I can make a separate feed.

SPEAKER 2

Oh.

SPEAKER 5

And then I sort of organically taught myself everything that you need to know in order to publish a podcast. So it wasn't like. Like, now where it's like, anchor on your phone. It was very much upload an audio file and make this thing. And it was just the interview. But I think a big part of me, I think out there in my parallel worlds, there's a parallel Kirsten who's an. Who's rocking it as a radio dj, and I'm living that side when I get to do the podcast. So that's how it started. That's what it stuck with. And I've enjoyed it ever since. I do it because it's really, really fun to be a podcaster, as you all well know.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah. And I have to say, just to iterate, I love your show. Like, I subscribe to all three of y'. All. Yeah.

SPEAKER 5

Azran is new to me. This is really cool. I get to listen to Azran's. I'm gonna have to find it.

SPEAKER 2

It's on Anchor. It's on Spotify, it's on Tunein Radio, it's on Apple podcasts.

SPEAKER 5

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER 4

I'll.

SPEAKER 5

I'll find it. No worries.

SPEAKER 4

Y' all are really good at marketing in the. In the chat room now I'm putting a list of. This is awesome. I. I just put a list of a pod chaser list that I have with not only our podcast, but other language learning podcasts that are awesome. Because we are certainly not the only folks out there doing it.

SPEAKER 5

This.

SPEAKER 4

There's just only so many people you can have on a panel and. And stay sane.

SPEAKER 2

So.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah. So, folks in the chat room, if you're enjoying kind of what we're talking about, you can find our podcast in that list. And you can find other language learning podcasts in there, too. And if you're not. Oh, sorry. There are loads and loads and loads. Yeah. And more all the time. And we want more. I mean, that's part of what we're doing here is we want people who are interested in language or learning languages to start your own, because there's. Whatever you do with language, you are the lens into your podcast and how we experience language through you.

SPEAKER 5

So it's always so.

SPEAKER 4

Just so different and wonderful. But I know we have a lot of folks who are probably watching us who are interested in languages, but maybe not going to start that, but they might want to start a podcast. So I think we need to talk about money. Can we talk about money for a minute?

SPEAKER 5

That's so saucy.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah, I have to be careful about this, but I'm like, okay, so I. Y' all monetize your podcast in different ways, so with whatever you're comfortable sharing. You don't have to give us numbers or anything. But what kinds of ways do you use the podcasts to bring in the dough? Let's see. We haven't started with Chanel yet. Chanel, do you want to go first?

SPEAKER 2

I'm mostly sponsored by anchor at the moment, so it's like every couple cents on the dollar, so I'm not really making like tons of money. I probably made like $70 in like a year and a half. But.

SPEAKER 4

But you mentioned affiliates also, though.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah. Oh, well, yeah, I am doing affiliate marketing for Michelle Thomas right now. Yes. So I. The. And that's the first professional deal I've gotten since I launched 28 months ago, which took me a year and a half, by the way. I, you know, I. I have to bring that up. When you are starting a podcast, you want to make sure you have enough episodes in the can that's going to interest people and a clear message as to what you want to say. Because a lot of times, some of these companies will not touch you until you have some. Some numbers behind you. I don't mean like money, but more listens and how many countries are you in? And yeah, so, I mean, it took me a year and a half to get a collaboration going with Michelle Thomas, so. And I'm going to be going on my second year this year, so I'm quite happy with that. But, yeah, I don't really do a lot of. I don't have a Patreon account at all right now. I'm still getting used to putting out more content, so I'm 182 episodes right now. Wow. So, yeah, I'm mostly focused on the creativity side right now and then the actual money side. I feel that the money will come, you know, later.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Azrin, how about you?

SPEAKER 3

I don't directly monetize it in the sense of like ads or sponsors or things of that nature. As of now. Um, it's not something I think about super actively. I think for, I think where the, where monetization comes in for me is more of a, more of a branding play, I would say. So. For example, it is reasonably common, it's reasonably common for someone to send a message like, hey, listen to your podcast for the past nine months. You said something in the last one that it really resonated with me and I kind of was thinking that maybe I should take some classes through you. Right. Things of that nature will happen. But it's not like I, I didn't really do a call to action. I didn't ask for the business per se. I didn't. It just sort of happens organically because there's people that are listening and so, or things, or things. Like a current student who is listening to the podcast, they'll hear me say something and then they'll ask me in class like, hey, I heard you say something in your podcast, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, such and such thing. Or, or even things like, for example, like let's, let's play this out. Like today, you know, Steph listens to my podcast. She invites me to International Podcast Day, which then leads me to see, with someone else being like, hey, Azran, I saw what you're up to. I'd like you to come to this event that we have. You go to that event, which then leads to like, you know what I mean? It creates a rabbit hole of. Which then leads to, who the heck knows, a really big sponsor in the next 18 months. Right. Or so. I'm not usually worried about, I don't think a lot about, oh, I made, I got a hundred dollar sponsorship today, or I got a $50 thing today, or I made, like for me, it has to be something I, I think more like I would, I would like to land something. I'd rather land something in nine years that now pays for my, my lifestyle where you're earning $40,000 a year or something, or 50 or whatever. Then I don't know what the number is, who knows? But I'd rather work towards something where I, I see the benefit in nine years than see the benefit in a year. So if I see nothing in the year, I'm not super worried, not overly concerned. It's not, that's not how I view it.

SPEAKER 4

So very true. So not only is language learning a long term endeavor, but so is the podcasting part of it for a lot of us. And I, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I, I'm not opposed to sponsorships or advertising or things, but it's got to be connected. I'm not going to have a bed ad on a language podcast. I don't really see that as useful. And that's fine for if people want to do that on their podcast and it's not connected to the content, but I, I don't need to. I don't want to. So. Yeah. Yeah. Kirsten, how about you? How about.

SPEAKER 5

How about the Fluent Show? Well, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna preface this by saying making a podcast is, Is a labor of love, but at the same time, in order for it to be sustainable, in order for it to be. To stay a labor of love, I do think, and I honestly believe this, I do strongly believe podcasters, as everybody else, deserve to get paid because we work a lot, and we work a lot because we want to make a really cool thing. And podcasts are free at the point of delivery, and I love that about them. I love the fact that I get to enjoy so many podcasts and they're free at the point of delivery as well. And there are essentially three ways that I would say the Fluent show monetizes. And again, look, if we were all here, if we were all in this for the money, we'd be stockbrokers, right? So, no, this isn't, this isn't that. But what I have found is I really love working with the sponsors that we have. They're lovely. We have had language learning companies, we've always had sponsors that I have approached or when they approached me, that I, I've personally dealt with every single one. I've had conversations with them. I've tried the products that, that we have endorsed over, over the years. And I have had so much feedback from people saying, thank you for recommending this because it's really cool. So I'm, I'm in favor of when you can get a good sponsor, to get a good sponsor. But at the same time, I run a business where I run language programs. And what I have found in the past is that it's, I'm doing myself a disservice. I'm doing everybody a disservice if I don't mention on the show when I've got something that is running, because, like, that's really stupid. In the past, I, I might have been really shy and sort of said, oh, well, I'm running a German retreat, but I Don't want to advertise it. Like, what, what? And then nobody knows about it. And then people email three weeks later going, you were running a German retreat.

SPEAKER 4

What?

SPEAKER 5

So I've, I've very much built my own confidence and said yes. So that's a way that the podcast kind of works because it's part of a bigger project that, that I have, which is to bring people into the language learning world and support people in the language learning world. And then because I have had people who contacted me in the past. I'm sorry, by the way, this is my partner in the kitchen seemingly knocking half the kitchen down. So if you do hear him, I, I need a better mic. But it. I have probably for a year now. Yeah, it's sort of our anniversary on Patreon. And the. I. I really organized with myself. Do I want to open Patreon? Do I not want to open Patreon? But because. Because when you're, when you have Patreon, you're inviting people into your show in a. In a new way, and in a way you're giving people not. Not part ownership or something like that, but you are inviting people into your world and to be closer to you and closer to you as a community. And it took me a while to work out where that fits into the podcast production, but for me, the Fluent show is something that I want to offer people the opportunity to get in on if they want. And I had people writing to me in the past saying, hey, I love the Fluent show. Can I give you money? And I would have had to say, no, but you can buy my thing, when they didn't really need to buy my thing. That's not what they wanted. So in the end, I thought, no, let's just do. Let's just do Patreon. Let's have this. Let's get this party started and see how it goes. And I, I've had a really good experience with it. So those three.

SPEAKER 4

Three. Fair enough. And yeah, there's a lot of. There's a lot of ways that monetization can happen that isn't quite as direct. Like, Azram is talking about branding things or being invited onto other things. And to trace it all the way back to how somebody found out about you sometimes doesn't. Isn't a clear path. So it's not quite as. As direct all the time. So I do have one more quick question, and if we can sum this up in, like, one sentence each, because we have a question from the chat room, I'd love to get to before we run out of time, too. So two more questions. One from me, one from the chat room. So in one sentence, ah, we can do this. What's one piece of advice you would give someone who wants to start a language learning podcast? Who wants to go first?

SPEAKER 3

Download anchor, and start.

SPEAKER 4

Okay, who's next?

SPEAKER 5

Don't expect the world in the first five episodes. Give yourself a little bit of time and settle into your groove.

SPEAKER 4

Chanel.

SPEAKER 2

Find your voice, because that's important. Know who you want to talk to. You know, I truly do believe that. And. And just do it.

SPEAKER 4

Agreed.

SPEAKER 5

And.

SPEAKER 4

And allow it to change. Mine is allow it to change. Because the first six episodes, the first six months, it. There are things that are going to happen on the podcast that you don't even. You won't even realize are happening until they do.

SPEAKER 5

Awesome.

SPEAKER 4

Okay, so from the chat room, we have. What's the biggest. Oh, it just moved. That's awesome. Let's see. So from Mr. Nessie. Hi, Mr. Nessie. What's the biggest challenge they have? You have. What's the biggest challenge you have overcome in the podcasting space? Kristen, do you want to start us off?

SPEAKER 5

I can think of two. One, because I've been doing this for a while. Coming up to episode 202 to go.

SPEAKER 2

Can't wait.

SPEAKER 5

So excited. One is feeling disheartened when it feels like nobody's listening and you're just talking to nobody and really losing heart, losing your confidence and starting to wonder. Like I said before, it can be so much work to put a good episode out, and sometimes I think you. You're tired. You overlook the fact that you're tired, and you. You start to wonder what the whole point is. So don't give in to that. And the other one was the rebrand I made from when we were the creative language learning podcast to becoming the fluent show. That was a big, ambitious thing. And you had to change the picture in the feed. And then I would tweet out and say, look at our amazing new logo, except it hadn't updated here yet, and there were so many little technical aspects. So that was the. Probably the biggest logistical challenge on a very intense day. No zoom call has ever happened, no streamyard call has ever happened without saying, you're on mute.

SPEAKER 2

Oh, man.

SPEAKER 4

I did it. So did it. I lasted 44 minutes without doing that. You know, I live near a police station and in a fire station, like, one block from both, and there's always sirens, so I keep muting like crazy. Anyway, sorry, Chanel, how about you you.

SPEAKER 2

Know, I actually have to say my biggest challenge, dealing with difficult guests and not taking what someone says personally, because you're not going to always find you're not going to be able to interview people. You want to get people to interview, but you're not. You have to leave your personal feeling at the door and not take what the person says to heart. I. I've had that a couple times where I've interviewed a couple people, and when I got off the interview, I felt really crappy, like it didn't go very well or so I didn't think it did. But when I saw the numbers, you know, people liked it, but me personally, I just. I don't know, it was, you know, I had to learn that not every interview is going to be, you know, popping all the time, and you're not going to always have a guest that's going to be warm. Sure.

SPEAKER 4

Anything can happen. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a really good one, Azrin.

SPEAKER 3

I think mine's going to be in a very different vein than what. What Chanel and Kirsten shared. For me, just initially, it was the tech. Like, how do you do all this? How does this work? How do you make a podcast? What do you like? It took like, I knew Anchor existed, but I didn't understand how Anchor. Like, I didn't really know what it was. And I was like, oh, Anchor is an option. And I didn't. You know, there's also, like, before Anchor, like, there wasn't a simple way. To my knowledge, you could just download an app and just start recording and upload stuff. That's just not how it was. And there wasn't. It was a little bit more complex. And I remember actually looking into podcasting before Anchor was out, too, and I was like, oh, this looks really complicated. So initially it was a lot of the tech and the figuring that out, a lot of the logistics. And yeah, I'd say that that was one of the biggest, biggest challenges, I would say. Aside from that. Yeah, aside from that. I don't think there's anything else that really comes to mind that was, like, super, like a big hurdle or anything. Really frustrating that that was the. Probably the biggest thing. And initially. And then once you figure that out, you. You kind of figure it out.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah. How about that? Kirsten, do you want to. Sorry, Kirsten, do you want to talk about the protection side some more? Because it sounds like Ezrin just hit on something.

SPEAKER 5

Sorry.

SPEAKER 4

We've got our own chat room for the panel, and I so unsav.

SPEAKER 2

Un.

SPEAKER 4

Smoothly Just revealed that. So how about the promotion for your podcast? How did that go?

SPEAKER 5

It's. It's fun. It's. It's fun to hear. And I think Anchor has done a lot for.

SPEAKER 2

Didn't.

SPEAKER 5

I've read somebody that anchor now hosts 90 whatever percent of podcasts or something like that. Like Anchor has done something for podcasts that nothing's ever done. And I have to say, I've always really enjoyed the tech side. I enjoyed what I enjoy, what podcasting has taught me about getting good audio, about the power of good audio, how important it is that I remember when I changed my intro music and the difference that made and learning when to fade in, at what point in the song I come in and talking, you.

SPEAKER 2

Know.

SPEAKER 5

The way the Internet compresses how you sound and how important is to get a double ender if you can so get the other person to record their side. All those little things and those, and those little ways that you can improve your show have been really cool to learn and it's really cool to feel like, oh, man, I'm a pro. I'm a pro. And it used to, sorry, I can't. I still haven't worked out how to get the Stop the Cat from coming in and. But we, we do cut that out. We've. We try to be professional. But, you know, I, I feel proud of the way the fluent show sounds now compared to when I started it. Not that it's a mark of, you know, another show. You know, it's not judgment on another show, but I feel really proud the way that we now sound compared to when I first started. And I still had the excitement, I still had the passion, I think that is the most important thing. But I also think people have to be able to hear you. And I used to just sort of shout in the general direction of my, of my. What is it called? MacBook. And. And now it's. Now it's better. Do you know what I mean? And this music and this. I have this little mobile mic that I can take and, you know, take to different events with me and once Covid stops, I can go back into town and do street interviews. And it just makes me so excited, the possibilities of storytelling with audio. And it's really, really, really cool. So I think from like hearing Azrin say I'm starting with anchor and like, I had to figure this out and it looked so complicated and knowing how much there is to go to from that and how much potential there is, it just makes me so excited for, for language podcasters it's really, really cool.

SPEAKER 4

I just want to get one.

SPEAKER 2

One small tip. If you're. If you're someone who's visually impaired and you're trying to upload audio, like, let's say you're on Skype, because I. I started recording my interviews on Skype now because it was a lot more accessible when you save it. If you're using voiceover and you do a swipe down and you hear it say save, you double click on save. It's going to take a minute, and then it'll tell you that it's saved. And then you're going to have to go over to your camera roll, go over to your photos, and go over to Skype folder, and then that's where you'll find your audio clip that you made. And if you want to upload it to anchor without having to go through all the nitty gritty, you can download MP3 player, MP3 Converter, which is accessible, and you just add that file and put it on MP3, and then it'll tell you you can add it. And then when you add it, it gives you a list of, like, all the different apps. You can add your audio file, and Anchor is one of them. And as soon as you tap on that, you will. It'll automatically upload its anchor, just like that. So I wanted to give that tip because sometimes when you're visually impaired and you're trying to upload from a second, you know, source, that's an easier way to do it.

SPEAKER 4

So that's fantastic. That is fantastic. We have just a few minutes left, and I want to say hi to Susie Butress. She checked in a few times in the chat room, and she asked, oh, can we do this one quickly? How important was it for. For y' all to connect with other podcasters? Did that help with your growth? Can we do a, like a thumbs up, thumbs down? Would anybody really say no? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER 2

It helped me a lot.

SPEAKER 4

Yeah.

SPEAKER 5

Yeah. I went to Podcast Movement last year and loved it. So, so important.

SPEAKER 3

I was totally the opposite. I'd probably made a hundred podcasts before I'd ever listened to one. So it was very, very different in that sense. I hadn't. I'd made a bunch without ever having listened to one. Now I have.

SPEAKER 4

Look at my face. It's hard to go away. You didn't listen to any podcast before you.

SPEAKER 3

I've not ever heard one before. I don't think it seems. I'd say seen, maybe, like, interviews on YouTube. And I was like, maybe that's what a podcast. I had no idea. I was like, I just. I guess you talk and then people listen something. I don't know.

SPEAKER 4

Oh, see, I've been a avid podcast listener from when you had to, like, drag it, like, download it on your computer and drag it onto an MP3 player before it was called podcast, like Kirsten said.

SPEAKER 5

Yeah, so, yeah, I did that too. Yeah, I'm a junkie.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, I'm a podcast. I was actually curious, think, like, since episode 17, before she changed it to the Fluent show. Like.

SPEAKER 5

Before I learned how to not say all the time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER 4

Oh, well, I, I. Yeah, I just delete. I delete them in post. But I was actually here on International Podcast Day. I. I podcasted for, I think, like, 10, nine or 10 months, and I didn't realize there were podcasting communities until I accidentally stumbled across something for this three years ago. And I was like, oh, my God. Other people are talking about it with each other.

SPEAKER 2

Oh.

SPEAKER 4

And so, yeah, so it's. It's beautiful. Beautiful synergy happening. Can we give one website where people can find most of your stuff? Can we start with Azrin?

SPEAKER 3

There we go. Unmuted. Probably the easiest, this kind of website. So Azrin Az or Z R, E, N thelanguagenerd.com probably the easiest, easiest one.

SPEAKER 5

Kirsten, I love the way Azrin gave a bilingual Z or Z. That's amazing. You can find me@fluentlanguage.co.uk and there's a link to the podcast there as well.

SPEAKER 2

If you want to. If you want to check out my podcast, you can go to Chanel's Language Learning Journey podcast at anchor or anywhere where podcasts are downloaded. By the way, my name is spelled C H E N E, L, L, E. And then there's apostrophe S. So Chanel's Language Learning Journey podcast. Awesome.

SPEAKER 5

Okay.

SPEAKER 4

And I keep posting all of our podcast links in the chat room, if anybody wants to just automatically go and check us out. And mine's@stephbuccio.com there's podcasts and all kinds of other services and things on there as well. Oh, my gosh. Azrin. Kristen. Chanel. I am so excited. I could keep going for a couple hours, like, digging in deeper on the things that we just barely touched. And I can tell from the chat room and the different things that are happening there and on YouTube that. That the. The listeners and viewers are really enjoying this as well. So thank you so much. Hi, Dave. You're back.

SPEAKER 5

Thank you, chat room.

SPEAKER 2

Thank you.

SPEAKER 5

Thank you, Dave.

SPEAKER 1

It was fantastic. It was informative. A lot of fun things going on in the chat room. I do Want to plug internationalpodcastday.com speakers where you can find information on Steph, Azrin, Chanel and Kirsten all. We provide all their social media links, their websites, their all their bio, all that fun stuff. So make sure you definitely go over to the website, connect with them over on social media, listen to their shows. So this has been a blast. I absolutely was incredibly excited when Steph petitioned to have like this panel about language learning. And so it's been very informative, very educational. And thank you all so much for taking part in the 2020 or 2020 International Podcast Day broadcast.

SPEAKER 2

Thank you.

SPEAKER 4

Thank you.

SPEAKER 1

All right, well, you guys have a great International Podcast Day.

SPEAKER 2

You too, Happy.

SPEAKER 5

Thank you, Diane.