Italian Expat in China: Writing About Life And Love in Suzhou: S1E10

Antonella Moretti is the Author of Parsley and Coriander, a fictional book about an Italian expat community in Suzhou, China. Antonella has lived in Suzhou for many years herself and draws upon her personal expat experience for this narrative. In this episode we asked Antonella about her two bookish hats: expat reader AND expat Writer. We discuss her love of reading books about China, what led her to write this book on an expat experience in China and about the publication and translation process. 

Original publication date: June 28, 2019

More: https://linktr.ee/stephfuccio

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

I understand that uh yes, they might have the same kind of behavior like Italians have or Americans have, but uh the feelings are the same among all people. The difference is the way we express them. The culture let lets us express them more often or not, but the feelings are just the same.

SPEAKER_11 0:22

Welcome to the Bookish Expats Podcast, where we discuss books that help us understand the host countries that we have lived in or are currently living in. Your host is usually Stephanie, a first-generation Italian American that first got her head stuck in a book about the same time that she got her first passport at the age of four years old. And she has not stopped reading since. My name is Ali Mona, and I'm the founder and host of the Limitless La Lai and Limitless Life podcast, and I am hijacking this intro so that I can tell you a little something extra about this episode's guest, Antonella Moretti. Antonella Moretti is the author of Parsley and Coriander, a fictional book about an Italian expat community in Suzhou, China. Antonella has lived in Suzhou for many years herself and draws upon her personal expat experience for this narrative. Now I had the distinct privilege of meeting Antonella twice. Once in Shanghai and once in Suzhou. And this woman is amazing. She's kind, she's gentle, she's knowledgeable, and she is so brave because I did an interview with her all in English when her native language is Italian. And we had a blast. Now, when I went to read Parsing Coriander, I laid in bed one night expecting to read a couple pages and fall asleep. And I'll tell you, I read the book in one go. So I definitely recommend that you pick up a copy for yourself. Now, in this episode, we asked Antonella about her two bookish hats, expat reader and expat writer. We discussed her love of reading books about China, what led her to write this book on an expat experience in China, and about the publication and translation process. You see, this book was initially written in Italian, but now has an English version and will soon have a Mandarin version as well. Two special thanks go out to Tatiana, Steph's season four co-host of Bookish Expats, starting in July of 2019. And to Russian expat living in Shanghai, Marina Kush, who is Shanghai Daily Sheik on Instagram, for contributing to the questions in this interview. You can find out more about Parsley and Coriander and chat with other Antonella Moretti fans at Facebook.com slash Parsley and Coriander, P-A-R-S-L-E-Y, A-N-D, Coriander, C-O-R-I-A-N-D-E-R. If you have any comments or questions about this episode, please feel free to connect with Steph on any social media platform. Steph Fuccio, S-T-E-P-H, F-U-C-C-I-O. And you can connect with me on Facebook and Instagram at positively Allimona. A-L-L-Y-M-O-N-A. Now, I think that's enough spelling. Let's get on to the episode.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Well, thank you so much, Antonella, for joining us on Bookish Expats today.

SPEAKER_05 2:59

Hi, and thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

So let's start with your backbone. Antonella, you are from Italy, correct?

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Alright. And and you've lived in Sujo China for how long?

SPEAKER_07 3:11

Seven years. Almost seven years.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Seven years. When is your China versory?

SPEAKER_07 3:17

In August 9th. Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Have you lived in any other countries or just in China so far?

SPEAKER_07 3:26

No, this was the first expat experience for the family. Yes. We started with China.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

That is a brave, brave decision. Wow. We're reshaping bookish expats a little bit. And because you're a writer and we'll we'll be talking about your book, Parsley and Coriander. I want to just keep holding it up because I'm so excited about this. But I understand the listeners are not going to see that. So listeners, go to my Instagram. I'll have tons of pictures and things about the book and whatnot. Okay. So we're going to talk about you as a reader first. Then we'll go into you as a writer and about this book.

SPEAKER_08 4:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

So as a reader, Antonella, how would you rate yourself? Like how bookish are you? Like from zero being not very bookish, you don't like to read books, and 10 being you always have a book in your hand.

SPEAKER_07 4:19

I would like to be 10, but I have three children, and I'm thinking I'm my six now. I would like to read more. This is my desire. And recently I would like to read everything about China. Um I have a kind of obsession now about books about China. I nearly don't read anything else, so I should I should balance this thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

I know what you mean though. I mean, if you live in a place and you start to read about it, it adds so much to your experience, right?

SPEAKER_07 4:58

Yes, especially China, its culture is so complex. And the more you read, the more you study, the more you realize you don't know, and the deeper you go, the more ignorant you feel. So I never stop uh discovering new things.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Right. Do you have a favorite book about China that you tell people when they say, Oh, well, I want to read more about China? Do you have one that you tell them?

SPEAKER_07 5:23

I like a lot the book by Chiu Xiaolong, the Inspector Chen series, which takes place in Shanghai at the beginning of the 90s. So it tells a lot about the changes in China, um, very dramatic changes they had uh before the 2000. They are crime stories, not like we are used, like the American style, it's uh much more uh slow and slower, and the author uh really can describe uh Shanghai and Chinese society in a very deep way. So those books help me a lot to understand the Chinese. So I always suggest those books to people.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Let's go back even further. What was the first book that you fell in love with?

SPEAKER_07 6:18

Oh my favorite book, the book I read maybe five times, is the Alchemist. Oh Paolo, yes. That is a very important book for me. Oh I read it many times, and every time I cover a different level in the book.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Have you read his other books as well?

SPEAKER_07 6:40

Uh yes, not all of them, but at the beginning, most of them. But I have to say the Alchemist was a better one, and I also like the one about the Santiago pilgrimage.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

I'm trying to know that book. Yeah, I haven't read his stuff in a while because the last thing I got kind of obsessed with him for a little bit, and I started to read everything I could find. But the last thing I read of his was about a divorce, and it was very Hollywood, and it confused me because it wasn't like the depth of emotion and thinking. It was like two people fighting over a divorce. I'm like, eh, this is not what expecting when I read his stuff.

SPEAKER_07 7:23

I think he got a gift when he started writing, but after that, maybe he had to write every year a new book, and that affected his writing. Yeah, he's still a very deep person, but I cannot say I liked all his books like others. I didn't like them so much. Yeah. As you say, they lack in deepness.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah. There's little bits like I remember I'm looking at like a bunch of different ones online now, and like 11 minutes was okay, Brida was okay. Like there's moments in them that were good, but the alchemist, you're right, the alchemist was very focused and beautiful the whole way through. Hmm. Let's get into your head a little bit. When you read, how do you interact with the book? Do you write on the book? Do you write somewhere else? Digitally send something on your phone. What do you do?

SPEAKER_07 8:19

Okay, when I read a paper book, I treat the book very badly. Poor book, I fold pages. If I don't have a pen, I use maybe my nail to and I like to highlight the passages I like or taking some notes. So I write on books.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

And listeners, I'm showing Antonella me highlighting writing all over her book. I'm like, I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_07 8:47

I know some reader they don't like the book sacred, but for me, I need to use it. I need to know. And when I started with the Kindle with the e-books, of course, it was different, but I get used to the Kindle very quickly and I like it, especially with our expat life. You you cannot carry hundreds of books in your luggage, so it's very convenient. And I also um like to highlight and take notes on my Kindle.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

I've never gotten used to e-readers, but I definitely do audiobooks sometimes, depending on. I like them. I can do stuff while I'm listening to them. And in Shanghai, it takes me at least an hour to get anywhere. So between podcasts and audiobooks, I feel like I'm not wasting my time in traffic.

SPEAKER_07 9:39

If you're driving, yes, or if you are in a car, the audiobook is definitely the best option. Because I cannot read when I'm in a car or in a bus. So the best option. But here in Suzhou, distances are not so huge, like in Shanghai. So it takes a very short time for me to go from one place to the other. Yeah. I should find a new moment for me to read. During the day, I'm always busy writing or with other projects, so I don't read. And at the evening I'm busy with my children, so I don't read. But now in summer, I hope I will uh catch up with the books.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

How much time do you spend at the Isleet bookstore in Suzhou?

SPEAKER_07 10:26

I know actually, I've been a couple of times, but no, I'm I don't go around so much because I try to focus on writing or other things. So I I limit my uh excursions the more I can a lot at home in front of my computer.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

So you talked about paperbooks versus your Kindle. Which do you prefer if you could read on either thing? Which do you like better?

SPEAKER_07 10:55

I like the Kindle because you can make the typing bigger, and I don't need glasses to read it.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I get that.

SPEAKER_07 11:08

I feel less tired when I read on my Kindle, and I I like it very much. Most of my Italian friends they are still very affectionate to the paper book, they don't like the Kindle, even if they change, especially expats, they need to have it, but I like it a lot.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Nice. When you first moved to China, did your reading behavior change? Did you read more or less or different kinds of things?

SPEAKER_07 11:38

About reading less or more, it of course depends on the periods. Some periods I read five books in one month, some other time, no, no books. But of course, yes, the topics change because I've never read about China before. It wasn't in my list of uh topics. And uh, when I arrived here, I was so curious to discover. So, and I also started to read in English, because in Italy I've never read in English, it was very difficult for me, and now I'm I got used to that and I can understand almost everything I read. So now it's a pleasure for me to read in English because I can really understand everything in the book.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Do you have a favorite place to read, even if it's a part of your home or a favorite cafe?

SPEAKER_07 12:30

I read at home. Uh, any place uh is it's good. Uh I remember it was a time I read uh many books and uh with my Kindle because now my Kindle has broken again for the second time. This is why I cannot read that much. Uh, because the Kindle is very convenient, you can carry it in your bag and read on the subway. I was used to read uh while cooking, mixing the pasta read uh that time with my Kindle I could really read a lot. So I don't have a favorite place, so I just need to have my Kindle with me, and now without Kindle I feel very lost because I don't have paper books at home, and reading from the computer is not the same, it's not no, it's not portable, you cannot have it everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

So are you going to get another Kindle?

SPEAKER_07 13:26

Yes, of course. As soon as I go back to Italy for the holidays, I will buy a new one, and I hope it won't break again because it's in Italy we say everything comes in three. So I I've broken two Kindles already, and I hope the third one will be safe.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Oh no, okay, so maybe it'd be a good idea to buy two of them when you go back, and then when the third one breaks, you'll have the fourth. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, but then four is superstitiously bad number in Chinese, so I'm not sure that's good either.

SPEAKER_07 14:01

No, okay, but I will stick to the Italian tradition. There you go. Is another uh example. Yeah, the fourth will be finally saying my husband always tells me you you are really treating your kinder very badly. You put you just throw them in the bag, you read them everywhere. So this is why they broke.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

But that's what you're supposed to do with a Kindle, they're supposed to be sometimes you need to take care of them. Okay, wait, you said you read while you're cooking. How how does that work?

SPEAKER_07 14:42

I have my Kindle near the where I cook in, and when I mix risotto or something, I just can read a couple of lines. That's awesome. Yes, for a for a period of time it worked.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

And then it didn't work?

SPEAKER_07 15:01

No, because I don't have my Kindle anymore.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Oh, right, of course. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:05

With the books, you can you can do this uh without it.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

It gets very, very messy. All right. Are you reading anything now or are you waiting for the Kindle to start the next the last book I read is a paper book.

SPEAKER_07 15:19

I went to Shanghai to listen to the author uh during the literary festival in Shanghai, and the book is The Twix and Between by Margaret Sun, and it's a memoir of this uh lady. She's 84 and uh she was very poor. She's born in Shanghai, she sold cigarettes at the corners, so she tells all the things that happened. The peculiar thing of this book is that she was raised in English because her family was Cantonese and they spoke English as well. She was Christian, so she always went to church. Her English was like a native language, so she wrote the book in English and she writes about her life during in the 30s. She went to Xinjiang Province, and so she stayed a whole life in this remote part of China. But it's a very interesting book about her life and her challenges, very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

All right, let's take a moment to break from Antonella's bookish expat story and talk about some other expats that are also talking about Italy, literally talking via podcast. One of my favorite podcasts is called the Bittersweet Life Podcast, and I will let Tiffany and Katie tell you all about that. But uh, I wanted to have them as part of this episode to show the other side of expat life. Antonella talks about Italians in China, and Tiffany and Katie talk about expats in Italy. So let's have a listen to what their podcast is about, and I hope that you go over there and check it out because it really is extremely interesting. Here we go.

SPEAKER_10 17:08

Hello, I'm Katie Sewell. And I'm Tiffany Parks. In 2013, I quit my job as a senior producer for public radio, and I moved to Rome temporarily, just for a year.

SPEAKER_09 17:18

A move that was completely out of character for you, by the way.

SPEAKER_10 17:21

Yeah, no kidding. I was definitely the play it safe, get a job, hold on to it, work your way up kind of person.

SPEAKER_09 17:28

And when I fell in love with Italy and Rome specifically as a teenager, I just decided on a whim to move here over a decade ago with no real plan other than to find a way to stay no matter what. And I am still here. It worked!

SPEAKER_10 17:41

And that's where our podcast, The Bittersweet Life, begins, in Rome five years ago. And if you listen, don't be afraid to start from the beginning. Rome really comes alive in those older episodes.

SPEAKER_09 17:52

The Bittersweet Life is a weekly show about living abroad or wanting to live abroad. Our listeners regularly ask us some pretty deep questions, like how do you choose a path without regretting it, or how can I be less lonely? Lots of our listeners have made big changes because of the show. One recently moved to Spain, another quit her job as a lawyer and moved to Milan.

SPEAKER_10 18:10

There are lots of travel podcasts that will help you find a good piece of pizza. The Bittersweet Life explores not just how to live in a foreign place, but how to live.

SPEAKER_09 18:19

And we promise, if you listen regularly, you'll start to think about your own life differently as well.

SPEAKER_10 18:24

It's weekly, it's funny, it's thoughtful. Some of the world's best writers and thinkers regularly stop by.

SPEAKER_09 18:30

Just search for the Bittersweet Life wherever you get your podcasts, or visit the BittersweetLife.net.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Hey, it's Def again. I wanted to give you a recommendation for a couple episodes to start with with the Bittersweet Life podcast because they have been potting for quite some time. My favorite episode so far, and there are a lot of them that I really, really enjoy. But they did one on creativity and living abroad. They also did one on the mafia in Italy, and uh, spoiler, it's not what you think. So let's get back to Antonella's expat story of Italians in China. Let's switch over to your writer side now. So, to introduce Parsley and Coriander, there is a quote from Instagram that I saw last week that I thought was really interesting. Marina is her name, and she is a Russian expat in Shanghai, and I believe she went to your book event last week in Shanghai, and she wrote this on her Instagram. Today I've participated in a lovely presentation of a book about the life of expat wives in China. Moving to China, each one is free to choose the way of living and adapt to the Chinese environment or not. Some of the people can see a great opportunity in these changes, and some of them can't. Italian expat wife, and now a famous writer, Antonella Moretti, found these changes for good, gave up her boring job as an accountant, and started what she really loved write a blog about the life of Italians in China, which turned into this lovely book. All of the characters are the products of the author's imagination, but in if you live in China, you can easily recognize you and your friends in these characters. Enjoy reading.

SPEAKER_06 20:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

And I was so jealous because I was flying back from Japan and couldn't come to your event, but she made it. So I wanted to read part of her impression of the book.

SPEAKER_06 20:26

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Pretty awesome. So I did contact Marina and ask her if she had any questions that she didn't ask you yet. So in the questions today, I also have some of her questions.

SPEAKER_06 20:38

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

So is there anything about the summary that she did of the book that you'd like to add?

SPEAKER_07 20:45

I'm very happy to know that readers have this opinion about the book. Because in the book, I I tried to picture as many kinds of acts as I could. Some of them adapt very quickly and they enjoy, some others never can adapt, and eventually they go back home. Because you cannot live here in China if you hate every day. It's a tough country, and you really need to see the positive sides of the life here. So you won't make it if you don't find something positive. So, yes, this was my purpose when I started to write the book. Because when I arrived in China, of course, everything was new for me, and I was excited. I didn't have a very strong cultural shock. But the all the people I met, they were so fascinating for me. Of course, at the beginning I met more experts, Italians than first than others, nationalities, and all these feelings, especially of women, because I'm a woman, so I identify more with other women's feelings. They were so so many feelings, different feelings. I really needed to write about them.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

So was the book a way for you to understand other expats or for you to understand your own experience?

SPEAKER_07 22:14

I think both. When you go back to your country, you have you get always the same questions from people. And sometimes you think they are silly questions, but they are not because they don't know anything about your life in China. How can the daily life and not only the big things but the small thing? Where do you buy vegetables? Uh, how can you find what you need? These very basic things of life. So I wanted to describe the daily life of mothers and wives and how we deal with China every day.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Absolutely. Especially with China often is in the news in the English newspaper world. They're in the news because of negative things. So when I try to share my daily life, people are like, but wait, that doesn't fit all of the negative things that I know about China. And I'm like, of course it doesn't. And all of the negative things about the US that we read about overseas isn't daily life in the US. You know, it's it's very, very different. And I I agree that I think knowing the details of daily life gives us more insight into the people and the place than the news stories.

SPEAKER_07 23:37

Yes, because for me, when I arrived, I had no idea about the daily life in China. I really didn't know what to expect. So when I arrived, I was surprised about the modernity, about things that actually work, like subway, trans public transportations, and all these kind of things that you don't think they are, they really works from your country when you don't know anything about China. But actually, it's a modern country, and this was very surprising for me, I have to admit.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

In most of the world, we're still calling China a developing country, and a lot of the country is developing, but when you look at places like Suzhou and Shanghai and Beijing, I mean Shanghai has they're finishing the 18th subway line, and these subway lines are very long and they work really well. And you don't think of that when you think, oh, it's a developing country. No, this is developed, this city is developed. Yes. Almost overdeveloped, but that's a whole other story.

SPEAKER_07 24:41

Of course, it depends on different parts of China.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 24:45

Our uh feeling in Italy is that all China is developing.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

So during the book event last week, did you have any surprising questions or comments from the people that came?

SPEAKER_07 24:57

I was happy because in the audience there were also some Chinese ladies, and they are very interested in these topics, and they want to know what the foreigners think about China, about the cultural differences. Because, like, we don't know what these cultural differences can be until we don't live here. They also don't know what is so different between you and us. So, about family, they wanted to know about education. How is it different? How you raise your children, how you manage your family compared to the Chinese families. And these are always very interesting questions and always a nice discussion, not only me speaking, but other ladies asking questions and some other maybe answering. So, this is always the best part of the book talk.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

That's really, really cool. And do I understand correctly that that was the last book talk you're going to do for Parsley and Coriander?

SPEAKER_07 26:02

I will need to stop for a while. I don't want to because uh every time I meet so interesting ladies and the conversation is always so insightful. I would never stop to organize these events. But of course, organizing this kind of events is time consuming. And uh next season, I hope I finally will have the Chinese version of the book ready. Yes, so I will need to focus on the Chinese marketing. So I will probably organize events with a Chinese audience, and they are a little bit different from events for expats.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Oh, sure. Since we're talking about languages already, let's go there. First you wrote the book in Italian, correct? Yes, and then it was translated into English, or did you translate it into English?

SPEAKER_07 26:53

Or just this is a funny story. Okay, a translation is very expensive, and I did all by myself for the book because I self-publish and I manage all the marketing, all by myself. My goal was not to use uh family money for this project of mine because I didn't want to invest something I didn't know if I would have back. But I really wanted to have an English version because I thought that also it was a pity to limit the audience to Italians. So a friend of mine, she's very good in English, and she helped me to create a good draft, English draft. We work together uh every day for three months because she is from Norway, so she doesn't know Italian. But finally, we got this very good final draft, and uh I sent the draft to a professional editor, Italian and English bilingual editor. So I work with this editor as well, almost every line we went through together. So I think the English version is uh very similar to my style in the Italian version. It's very it's a simple language, familiar language, like when we speak between people, because the book is about daily life, so there was no need to use a literary language, and this is the story of the English version. And for the Chinese version, there's an online platform that puts the translate um translators and uh authors in contact. So it's a kind uh you present your book on the platform, and some translator decide to take the project, they will work for free, but when the book is on sale, they will get a part of the royalties for them.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_07 28:58

But I didn't know how to find a Chinese publisher. I really didn't know how to do that. And when I discovered this platform, I thought was the best option for me because it's very easy.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

That's such a good thing to have. Because I mean, let's face it, there's 1.6 billion people in China, and it's a huge market. I mean, it takes years to learn Chinese and then to learn to write in Chinese, but if you can find a translator like that who can still benefit from the translation, but not with a huge investment up front, you can reach a whole new market to talk to and share stories and all kinds of cultural stuff. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_07 29:38

Yes, I really hope this will be a nice project and okay. The book is the translation is done, but the book is going through all the bureaucratic things about books in China. So I have to wait a little bit, then there will be this ebook ready. I hope after summer. So I'm I'm thinking about a way to promote this book among Chinese readers. So the market is not very active. Of course, there are a lot of people, so I hope I will be able to reach at least some of them, and I will open a Witch official account and write about Italy and the differences in culture between Italy and China. So I think they will be interested to discover these things.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Hey it's Steph again. I'm gonna interrupt Antonella's story one more time. There is a podcast that is so inspiring that I think you'd also like to know about it. It is a different way of living, it's living off the grid. I'm going to let Heather fill you in on the podcast itself, but let me just tell you, you are going to love this.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Hello, it's Heather from Sunshine and Power Cuts, the podcast that features two types of episodes which alternate. The Sunshine ones offer inspiration drawn from nature, but in the power cut ones, I share honest insights into my life living off the power grid in rural New Zealand. If you'd like to check it out, it can be found where good podcasts can be downloaded, and you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at SunPowerPod. Until then, be empowered by nature.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Okay, so let's get back into Antonella's bookish expat story and wrap up this super fun conversation that we had. Oh, shout out to Ali Mona. She was the one like I asked to interview her for her podcast that I think she's taking a break from right now. And she mentioned you in your book, and I was like, oh, because I am not good at other languages outside of English, and I was like, oh my gosh, get an Italian perspective on coming to China is something I never thought I could read, but here it is in English. That's amazing to me. So that kind of language relaxation was really, really cool. So thank you for translating it into English. Let's talk about the people in the book. So the main three characters are Luzella, Astrid, and Emma, but you have a lot of other characters. Why did you choose to have such a big cast of characters?

SPEAKER_07 32:08

Because I wanted to describe a lot of different points of view, and this is also why I've chosen the novel instead of the memoir, because I thought the novel would be the perfect way to put all the ingredients together and mix them very well. Don't make anybody too much recognizable, but being able to speak about not everybody, but the most of them. So this is why I've chosen so many characters. And that's a funny story about that. When I wrote the first draft of the book, I chose a different structure. It was like emails between different ladies. That time I found an Italian publisher, and they were interested in the book. So I sent them the draft, and the guy gave me a lot of suggestions, and he told me, yes, the story is nice, the idea is nice, but you have to rewrite the book with a different structure because this kind of email between so many different characters is confusing for the reader, it's not easy to follow, and you have to think about your readers as well, not only what to say, but how can they understand and appreciate the story? So I rewrote the whole book. I kept the characters and the story, but I rewrote the structure. So it took me a long time to finish it, but I'm very satisfied about the result. After this publisher disappeared, because it was a very small publishing house and they kind of closed business. Luckily, before I signed every any paper with them, but it was a very useful experience because he gave me this very important suggestion. So this is why I kept three main characters. I have only the point of view of the three main characters, and through them, the other characters speak, otherwise, it would be too much to have uh too many characters that speak in the book.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Yeah, and for the listeners, it is the book is organized, like each chapter switches between the three different characters, so we hear their different voices telling the stories that are inside the book. And it is available on Amazon. So listeners don't think you need to be in China to get this book. You can go and purchase it outside of China. You've done some cooking analogies already, just within the short time that we're talking. So I think I know the answer to the next question, but I'm asking anyway, how did you decide on the title of the book?

SPEAKER_07 35:00

I didn't know it was coriander, I was sure it was parsley. So when I arrived home, I was so happy. Oh, yes, let's do some Italian pasta with this parsley. And when I washed it, ah, this awful smell came out of the leaves, and I was like, ah, what's this? This disgusting. This was my first reaction about the coriander.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 35:24

But after a while, I could eat food with coriander inside without feeling this disgusting. And now I use it. It was not for Italian dishes, but when I cook kind of Chinese, I really like to add coriander. And this is a kind of metaphor that when you first meet some different things in your life, at the beginning you might feel they are too different, and you really don't like them. But after a while you get used to this, and uh and without realizing, you will end up loving them. So, and of course, I'm Italian, and Italians are known to love food, and I wanted something related to food for the title. Someone thinks that the book is a cookbook.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

It's a it's a cookbook for the emotional side of expat life.

SPEAKER_07 36:26

Yes, maybe pot of ingredients, expat life each other.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, no, that's a really, really good point, especially when somebody first moves abroad to their first country, a new country, anything, the things they encounter that are different, they can react strongly and negatively, but just give it time. Over time, you'll start to appreciate those things. That's a really good point. So before you got the idea to write the book, were there any books like it that you read that inspired you?

SPEAKER_07 37:00

No, I would have liked to find a novel about China, but I couldn't find it that time. So this is also why I decided to write it. I've always liked to write my whole life. I never wrote a book before because, of course, in Italy I had a job and a family and no time to focus on my passion. So I only wrote short stories and things like that. So when I arrived in China and I became an expert wife, I had uh time and I thought it was my duty to use that time in a useful way for me. My second chance in life to achieve something in the field of writing, jump on the opportunity, and this is why also I I decided to write a book.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

So we have another question from Marina, and by the way, listeners, Marina, her Instagram handle is Shanghai Daily Sheik. She is the one that gave us the first overview of Parsley and Coriander a few minutes ago. Uh Marina says in the book, uh Luisa, one of the main characters, says, quote, she began to go through the little notebook she used to write her appointment in, unquote. Do you do the same? Do you make notes during the day while you're doing other things? Do you recommend, or what can you recommend to help people pay attention to those small details?

SPEAKER_07 38:30

Yes, I'm I was used to write a piece of paper, then I've always lost my piece of paper. It's not my phone, because without a phone, you can't do anything in China.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 38:46

And finally, I found only one place where I can write notes, and uh sometimes if I cannot write, I record uh on the phone my impressions or pictures. So the phone is actually my best way to record notes and things right anymore. I don't have uh the paper calendar old-fashioned way, no, because I then I don't I don't watch a theme and I forget things. The phone is uh much more usable.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Right. Wait, you said you record some audio messages. What app do you for that?

SPEAKER_07 39:22

Uh I record with the recording feature of the phone. If I cannot write or it's too long, I just record myself. If I have some idea, some uh passage of some story, I just especially I use this when I because I'm I have a small son, he's three and a half years old, and he's born in China. He's born in Suzhou, and uh when he was uh very little in the night I had to carry him to make him sleep, and uh my my mind was going very fast uh during those moments. I really need it was maybe 3 a.m. in the night, and all these ideas while I was walking him uh around to make him sleep, and I reported a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

So you have multiple ways that you capture your ideas in audio and on paper and an app also in writing.

SPEAKER_07 40:18

Mainly on on the phone.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

See, the thing is I moved back to putting my ideas on paper because I kept losing them where I put them in my phone. Even if I had a specific app just for note-taking, I would forget that I put things there. It was so frustrating. And months later I'd find it and go, Oh, I should have done something with it.

SPEAKER_07 40:39

Like, oh my god, that was actually nice.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Yeah, there it is. I mean, I guess I could still do it, but then the passion's gone and the energy behind it is gone. So yeah, so I've gone back to paper for a lot of things, but I still do like communication stuff. I massively do stuff online. And on WeChat, do you find it's hard to explain how much is in WeChat to people who don't live in China?

SPEAKER_07 41:03

It's very difficult. You you can only understand when you experience it. It's like we're living on another planet, so you cannot explain kind of a fun book.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

J. Martin Troust wrote a book called, he's an Australian travel writer. He wrote a book called Planet China. It's a humorous book. He traveled a lot through China, he didn't live live here as an expat, but it's it is a very funny book. Anyway, let's get back to your book. What was your writing process like? Once you got the idea for the book, what were the steps that you went through to make it happen?

SPEAKER_07 41:38

Uh okay, I um I try to write the kind of uh structure, especially because okay, the book is uh different chapters are the month of the year. So it starts uh from September, which is usually the month when many expats arrives, and uh in a timeline of a year until uh September of the year after. And uh, since there are uh so many characters, I really needed to have a track for their stories, not to lose myself in the different uh stories of the character. So I wrote a lot before to follow. And uh another thing I did is to write down what was the main message I wanted each character to deliver to the readers. This was important for me because I wanted to yes to deliver a kind of message to people, and the message is positive. I hope this is something readers can appreciate when they read the book.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Well, because at the beginning, I did I must admit, being a married person in China, I'm also working here, so I'm not like a what they call a trailing spouse, which is a horrible term. But I did look at the book and see all of these marriages kind of falling apart and went, oh no, where is this going? And I was a little worried it was going to be a negative view on that. But you did have so many positive experiences, positive things that happened within those changes in those relationships and the other women in their lives as well. So I feel like that made it more real. You didn't just show the positive stuff and you didn't just show the negative stuff, you had that balance.

SPEAKER_07 43:19

Yes, yes, I because I always like uh happy endings, I don't like uh positive endings and positive characters, but of course, life is not always positive, and the people you meet they are not always positive. So, of course, I needed to describe real life and the real people, and so many things that actually happen in this kind of life because you are abroad, you are away from your family, and you might feel alone, especially if you have problems. And it's not uncommon for couples to have problems while abroad, and this is very, very difficult for women to do. Deal with yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Yeah, absolutely. So as you were writing the book, did it change how you were viewing China and Chinese culture and going about your daily life?

SPEAKER_07 44:12

No, I don't think it changes my view, but it made me want to go deeper and deeper in the knowledge about China. Because uh I wrote the book soon after a couple of months. I arrived here and it's a fresh view of China. Like when you arrive and everything is uh very renew, exciting or frightening. So some of the characters they arrived at the first month, and they had uh some generalistic and stereotype view of China because also this is real life, and I didn't want to end up with like some of them. So I tried to understand why Chinese behave in some ways we uh might not like, why we sometimes don't understand each other, because there are reasons, uh, cultural and historical reasons behind that. Uh so I tried to discover and study more.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Yeah, my husband and I have lived in a few different countries. We actually met up in Vietnam because we were both teaching in different places. Anyway, we had this joke when we would try to be going through a door, either a train station, subway station, or just an office building, there would always be somebody standing in front of the door, just standing there, not letting other people go through. And we were like, oh, no matter where we were, I can't believe Vietnamese people do this, I can't believe Chinese people do this. And then we went back to the US and we noticed that it was the exact same, but because we were in a different country, we started to say, Oh, these people do this, but Americans did it too and stayed there for a long time. And Americans were bigger than the Asian people, so they took up more space in the doorway.

SPEAKER_07 46:08

When you first went back to Italy, did you have any moments like that where you thought there was something that only Chinese people did, and then you realized like when I was living in Italy, we have a big Chinese community in my hometown, and I was like, Oh, these like these people, they always stay together, they never buy Italian food, they always Chinese food, they blah blah blah blah blah. Then I moved to China and I I became part of the Italian community, and I realized that Italians always eat Italian food, never buy Chinese food, always together, and I was so ashamed because I realized about all my ranting about the Chinese uh immigrant in Italy, and Italians are just the same. So I was so ashamed, and this is why people should travel and try at least to live abroad a while, because this opens your eyes and make you more open-minded and understand that people are mostly the same. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah, and I think your your characters in the book show that really, really well. Like some of the characters keep trying to generalize and say all these negative things, and then a lot of the other characters, especially in a particular love story that ends the book very nicely, they take away all the stereotypes and just start looking at individual people. And I think that's when those ideas really, really start to go away.

SPEAKER_07 47:47

Yes, I I realize I reach another level when I stop to think uh about Chinese, like the Chinese, but I focus, like you say, on people. This person, that person, and when I stop to think about them like the Chinese, it's something like the uh the other, no, the Italians, or I understand that uh yes, they might have the same kind of behavior like Italians have or Americans have, but uh the feelings are the same among all people. The difference is the way we express them, the culture let lets us express them more often or not, but the feelings are just the same.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

I want to think about that for about an hour, but I have to keep asking you questions. Like that's so true. The feelings are the same, and from culture to culture, we just have different ways that we're allowed to express them that are the norm that we can express them, but yeah, we do have the same emotions. It sounds like you go back to Italy quite often. So when you were writing the book, did you write it in China, in Italy, or both?

SPEAKER_07 48:57

I wrote it in China, so I really needed China to write the book. Now, when I go back to Italy, I'm in a sort of bubble. After seven years, I'm very disconnected with the culture in Italy. I consider my trip to Italy like a holiday, not my my daily life anymore. I don't have my place, I don't have my time, so it's nearly impossible to keep working. China was uh very important for the book.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

If you could ask any of the characters in your book a question, what would it be?

SPEAKER_07 49:35

Okay, let me think. For Luisella, which many people ask me, okay, Luisella, it's you because she writes a blog and she writes a novel. She's not me, but these are things about me, yes. Other um characteristics of her are very different from me. And uh she in the book she fights to stay in China. Okay, I don't want to spoil the story, but um something happens and uh she might not be able anymore to stay in China, and she realized that she wants to stay. So I would ask her, where do you see yourself in the future? Because you um are fighting to stay in China because you think your career, uh your new career, and everything are connected with China, like actually me. This is a lot of myself, but at some point you will have to change or to go back to Italy. So, how will you face this problem when it will be the moment? And this will be very interesting for me to hear her answer. And Astrid, it's also a lot of myself because she she's a mom of two small children and she's exhausted and anxious, nervous and everything that comes with having small children, and she really tries to use this time she has to put herself back together and rediscover herself. So to her, I would ask, which is the next step you would like to do, which is what you would like to do for yourself now, now that you are trying to calm down and having this relationship with your husband, trying to have a better relationship with your husband and your children. What would you like to do in your future? And uh Emma?

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Emma I have many questions for Emma.

SPEAKER_07 51:43

She arrives to in China trying to save her marriage, but this and and in a very different way. And I'd like to ask her, but did you really think you could save that marriage when you when you moved?

SPEAKER_02 51:59

I know, I know. And her you tugged at my heart so much when you talked about her her dead ex-boyfriend and her unresolved feelings for all of that. I wanted to say to her, get away from this idiot that you're with now and go heal, go get over that ex-boyfriend, because he sounded wonderful, but then you know, he died. So that's very emotional part of the book for me.

SPEAKER_07 52:23

Yes, and I loved her very much. Uh, she's a character which has no nothing in common with me, because she's young, beautiful, elegant. And this is why, probably why I love her so much. She's a very sensitive woman. Uh this is why in my second novel, which is only in Italian so far, I kept uh her in the story. Um, I introduced new characters, young people, but uh I still uh kept Emma uh in the book. And uh so in the second novel uh we will see what happens next to her. Always something very emotional.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Ah okay, so are you going to translate the second novel into English and Chinese also?

SPEAKER_07 53:12

I have to see how to manage that because I need to sell some book, either uh English or uh Chinese books, and and with that I can think about the translation. I mean not to, but it's still I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

Yeah. Well, after I was posting on Instagram and and Twitter about this, about Parsley and Coriander, people kept started to recommend the second one, and I'm like, I can't read Italian. I'm sorry, I'm going to have to wait. So yeah, so I hope that does happen eventually, because I'd like to I'd like to know what happens to her and read some more. So is the second book also based in Sujo and in the Italian expect community there?

SPEAKER_08 53:54

Shanghai.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

It's in Shanghai. Oh man, I have to learn Italian in like a month so I can read this. What what's the name of the second book?

SPEAKER_07 54:04

Uh the name is only in Italian. I don't have an English title. Okay. I think we're seeing the Drago, which is something related to the dragon and the this rentlessness of this dragon.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 54:17

Yes, because characters in the second novel they are very rentless. Yes, this is the war. They are looking for something they cannot find, especially one of the characters. He's really trying hard to understand who he is. So this is why the title.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Oh my gosh, that's something I think a lot of expats can identify with. Wow. Wow. Well, people in general too. I mean are you going to write a third book in the sequel?

SPEAKER_07 54:50

I really like to write a third book.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 54:53

I have uh a couple of ideas, but I don't know. At first, I need to understand for whom I want to write this book. I want to write another Italian book, uh so focus on the Italian market, which actually is not so satisfying as a market. In Italy, books don't sell that much, or try to write a book in English, and so I can have a good editor and focus on the English market, but this is huge because, of course, not only English native speaker countries, the whole world can read English, and this would be just much for me alone to do, especially for the promotion. So I would risk to be a drop in the ocean, and nobody would notice the book. So in this case, I should find an agent or somebody who can help me. Or the third option could be write a book for the Chinese readers. So think about a story, a very correct story without anything too much sensitive, about the difference of culture, maybe a funny story, a love story, something. And I could try to find a Chinese publisher. But these are very ambitious projects, so um I'm I'm still waiting a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

I get that. It's not just about the writing, there's that whole infrastructure of publishing, and is there a market for it? Are they going to buy it? Because it's your time that goes into it.

SPEAKER_07 56:39

Um enjoyable because I can see my own culture from the outside, and I'm having a lot of fun writing these articles.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Have you gotten much feedback from Italians on the book?

SPEAKER_07 56:51

Yes, yes, I had. I had many experts, but also many Italians who never went abroad. They were very curious to know about this daily life in China.

SPEAKER_08 57:02

Very cool.

SPEAKER_07 57:02

I had uh yes, a good success in Italy for the first book. Because Italians, there's a trend now. Uh we have many websites about living abroad, and so it's always uh an interesting topic for them.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Well, okay, let's talk about Sujo. So you wrote the book, and the characters in the book aren't necessarily the people in Sujo, but they might be little bits of them. Did the people you know in Sujo react in any way, like because they might have thought they were a character in the book?

SPEAKER_06 57:38

I was very worried, you know.

SPEAKER_07 57:41

Understandably so. When I released the Italian version, I was very worried because I really tried to mix all uh the things very well. So no one of the characters is actually a real person. But in any in each of the characters, there's something about real persons I I met a story, or maybe an attitude, uh special word they say. Yes, I tried to mix them very well, but anyway, I wasn't worried because in the book there are also negative characters, and I thought, what if some of my friends would identify herself in these characters and maybe never speak to me again? So first I asked a small group of friends to read the book before and be honest with me, and they said, No, no, it's okay, go on, go ahead. And uh I went, and okay, now I can tell you I still have all my all of my friends.

SPEAKER_06 58:52

So um, yes, uh, I was uh I felt uh relieved.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Yeah, it is a concern because people do read it and they might make assumptions. So it I'm glad they knew it was fiction.

SPEAKER_07 59:08

And another thing I realized that people will see in the book what they want to see. So maybe that person is negative, but she doesn't realize she thinks she's open-minded and everything, so she will appreciate open-minded characters and or maybe another one is racist and will see only the bad things about China. Um I realize that every person uh saw in the book what they wanted to see. I think all beliefs in when we read books.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

And I think that's the sign of a good book, is when people can do that also, when they have especially when you're talking about culture and culture shock and those kinds of things, when you have so many characters that people can identify with one of them and think that's me, that's my reaction, that's my story. It's like a stamp of this is this is a good book, it touches so many people.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:10

I was very happy because I had many feedbacks from readers, and they told me so. I identified with the stories, I thought I'm not alone with that, and this was the best thing for me, the best success for me, because I thought, okay, yes, I'm very happy I could uh write for everybody, not only for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

Tajana is a German woman that lives in India, and she's going to be my new co-host on Bookish Expats starting in July, and she helped me think of some of the questions we're asking today. And one specifically is her and I, I'm living in Shanghai, China. She's living in Goa, India, and we both talked about our experiences, it being a little difficult to make local friends. Expat friends are easy to make, but making local friends is a step harder. Do you find that true for you in Sujo?

SPEAKER_07 1:01:03

Yes, I find the same. Also in the book, um, okay, the book I as I told you, I wrote it in the first years, so that's even more difficult for me to find local friends. I think the first step is uh connecting with uh your same country people, and after you feel more open and you have international friends because you share the same kind of life, being the different one in another country, so you have a lot of things in common. But with locals, especially when the culture is so different, you might not have so many things in common. So, like uh for me, my children they go to a school with where there are many also Chinese students, but I never fit with the Chinese parents. I'm not a part of their group, maybe because they are afraid they won't speak English well, or maybe because uh oh, what can I tell her? Or no, you think if I do this or if I do that, maybe she would be offended. And this is the same for me for them. So I never a part of the parent group, and now I'm I've come to terms with that. Okay, I won't try to think in anymore. I'm just one, okay, I I get it, and maybe it's easier for me to connect with Japanese parents or Korean parents because they are also foreign ones. The only thing that helped me to find real Chinese friends is uh because of the book. Because when I did the book talks, also many Chinese came to hear, and I had the chance to find uh like-minded people. Because a friend you need to have the same values, the same thinking, you need to have something in common, otherwise uh you you won't be able to speak about things. So this is uh how I I found some of my Chinese friends. Not so many, but at least finally I have uh some good friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

Yeah, it's funny you say that because me too. It was through like some book clubs and through the podcasting groups, not just making podcasts, but also groups talking about podcasts. And those two worlds is where I've made a few local friends that I really feel like we connect with each other. Not just that they can show me some parts of China and I can teach them about American culture, but that we actually connect in a way that we can talk no matter where we live, like that kind of connection.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:45

It's about personal life.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:48

Friends do, and if your values and what you think about family is too much different, they don't have anything in common, so it's very difficult to be friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

Yeah. Another thing that Tatiana and I talked about was the food. Okay, the title of the book is uh food oriented, and there's a little bit of food in the book, but we were hungry for more. Why wasn't there more food in there?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:16

I thought it was enough. Because like she's always hungry in the book.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:26

Maybe because okay, Italian food, there's nothing inside, but the scene when they the ladies go to a typical market, they have uh to eat in a small uh restaurant on the street. But actually the food is very it's very good, it's delicious there. So they think, okay, I was so afraid to sit on these chairs, a little bit dirty chairs. I I won't uh now I think I can I won't die because I ate here. Maybe I was more interested in other things, so I didn't write about food. Not this tranche for an Italian, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:08

No, no, no, no. And I think on some level, touching on that I might have been a little stereotypical. We're like, we love Italian food, she's Italian, where is more food? We want more food. I think your focus in the book was brilliant. I'm not critiquing that. I was just like, I want more food. So, okay, what the book does really well is portray how it really is up to the person to experience life abroad. There are a lot of choices that expats need to make about their viewpoint. And Tajana noticed in the June chapter for the month of June, the character Astrid in that chapter says, quote, aware that everyone has the life they choose, unquote. Do you think that most expats understand uh that how they react to their host country is their choice?

SPEAKER_07 1:05:58

No. That was a quick answer. No, because I think some of them accuse the country to be the one who makes them feel bad. I feel bad because here I cannot do this, I cannot do that. But I'm sure those people will feel the same everywhere in the world because it's something from you. Of course, there are more difficult countries, easier countries, and also your personal experience can be different. I might be happy in Suzhou, but maybe if I move to Shanghai, I won't be so happy anymore because maybe I cannot find the same friends. So it's very personal. But the key is to find the positive things inside yourself and focus on them. I also had a moment of crisis a couple of years ago, especially in winter, when here in China everything is gray, and uh for uh one, two, three weeks you wake up and you open the window, and everything is gray and foggy, and you think, What am I doing here? Why did I choose to live here? And you might feel hopeless because for many women uh they had to come here because the uh work, the job of the husband was here. Maybe they didn't choose this place and they have no choice, they just need to stay. But if you are able to focus on the positive things, you will do something, you will make the most of this. This was the I was trying to give this message with the book. So it's really something that starts from you to find uh like for me. If I I wouldn't like to go back to Italy now, if I would have to go back, I would be very sad. But at the same time, I I should find something there specific of the country, of the license that can make me happy. Maybe something completely different from what makes me happy in China, but yes, depends on you, only on you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:13

A really good point. Because when I first moved abroad, the first time I lived, lived in a place, not just traveled there, was in Taiwan. And I kept trying to do the things I like to do in California in Taiwan. I wanted to go hiking during the day. You have to travel far outside the city to go hiking in Taiwan. I wanted to eat salads. Salads weren't really popular then at the time. I wanted, you know, the certain kind of, oh gosh, this ridiculous sugary latte thing. And they didn't have that then. Like I kept trying to do the same things in a different place, and I kept hitting this wall of misery, and I finally had to just stop and go, okay, what's here? What do I like that's here? And that's a really good thing to say to newer expats is forget what you normally like, look in front of you, look at what's there and find something you like there.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:03

Yes, and don't try to, like you say, to move your life in your country in the new country. Because you will get frustrated for sure. Very, yeah. In China, I have my Chinese life when I go back to Italy. I don't eat Chinese anymore, I don't drink hot water anymore, I don't mean to eat anymore, and I drink a lot of coffee. It's different, yes, it's just a different lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

And I think after the first country where you're able to do that, I think for for serial expats, like my addiction of moving countries, I think it gets easier with the second country and stuff because you know, okay, I have to leave these things behind. They might not be here. So, uh Antonella, your book is wonderful, and I thank you so much for putting it in two and soon three different languages so people can access it. If people read your book and they want to contact you, how can they do that?

SPEAKER_07 1:09:58

Okay, I have an email on the book as well, it's uccinanto at gmail.com. And I have a of course they can connect with me through my Facebook profile or uh my Facebook page. I have a Facebook page about the book where I put some picture of the book talks and some promotion, which is parsley cogliando on Facebook, and I also have an Italian page which is blog cucinando a little difficult.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

Are you still blogging now?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:35

My poor blog is added for a long time. I don't have a sparkle anymore. I I think I should find a new path for the blog because now after seven years, I don't have the freshness to write about daily life anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

That makes sense. I mean it gets repetitive after you're doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:57

Yeah, it's a struggle for me to see China with the eyes of a person who doesn't know anything about it because now for me is normal.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Yeah, and I think it it would be interesting because you've gotten so much further down into the culture, it'd be interesting to write about what you do know and what you do.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:17

Yes, probably I will I would change, I would change not the blog, I would keep the blog, but I will change the direction of say yes, um the articles, and I will write more about the culture. I have to think about this summer. I will take my time and think about what I want to do with the blog because it's a pity to leave it abandoned, right? Because I made uh I work on worked on it for many years, and it's I still I would like to make China be more accessible for Italians because they still don't know a lot of things. So I might uh think about that. Like I'm I will do for the Chinese, write about Italy and do the same mirror for Italians about China.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

So probably this is what I oh okay. I get ideas, Antonella, and sometimes they're crazy, but let me just say this. So you were talking about maybe doing a book for the Chinese market. What if you did the reverse expat experience? Got like a Chinese co-writer, is that what they're called? Uh like a person to write it with you, and do like a Chinese person that moved to Italy and their expat experience.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:29

Ah, yes, this is uh something else I also thought about. Uh but it's a little bit difficult because in Italy Chinese are there are not so many Chinese ex, but they're migrants.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:43

So the experience is very different, right? And I don't know, actually, in the second novel, one of the characters this boy is Italian, but he's Chinese, his family is Chinese. So I've already touched this topic of being a Chinese from a Chinese origins, but really in Italian. Yes, so this would be but maybe uh I'm thinking about yes, this is what I actually thought it would be nice to create a Chinese character that travels or goes to Italy for any reason it might be long, and that would be nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

And so face uh with an Italian family and Italian yeah, maybe an international student, because I imagine there are probably in Chinese international students in Italy. Yes, yeah, I just have ideas.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:40

So anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:45

Fantastic. Well, whatever you do in the future, I look forward to reading it or reading summaries about it if it's in a language I can't read. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on uh Bookish Expats today. I really, really, really enjoyed our chat. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:00

And thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:02

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bookish Expats Podcast. Word of mouth is the best way to spread the word about this project, so please do help us by doing just that on or offline. Just tell one or two folks, hey, you should listen to the Bookish Expats Podcast. Thank you for that. This was meant to be the final episode of season three, season four starting in July 2019. However, we accidentally recorded a special bonus episode for you, and we'll be playing that on Friday, July 5th. And that will be our season finale. Spoiler, Summer, my co-host on the Creatively Complicated Podcast, and I sat down and had a long chat about the Geopath inspiring book Global Soul by Pico Eyer for that episode. A special thanks is in order for the voices you heard in this episode. First and foremost, Damon Castillo for the background music we use in this podcast. The song we use is the I Will Remain song from his Mess of Me album. You can hear the entire song here as soon as I'm done talking. All of his music, concert information, and all that kind of good stuff, including merch, can be found at Damon Castillo, C-A-S-T-I-L-L-O.com. If you are a lucky duck and live on the central coast of California or have easy access to get there, you can actually catch him and his band live this summer. I just checked the schedule and they have concert planned in San Luis, Paso, Santa Maria, and Nimpomo. Also, I'd like to thank our guest promo folks for this guy for giving us a break and giving us more information on other projects we should check out. That includes Katie and Tiffany from the Bittersweet Life podcast, also Heather from the Sunshine and Power Cuts podcast. Fun note, Heather is also having her twice a year Sunshine Summit in August 2019. You can find out more about that wonderful project where she sits down and talks to content creators about their connections, and that is at Sunshinesummit. For more Bookish Expats Podcast episodes, you can go to bookish expats.podbean podb e a n dot com. Or you can honestly just search for Bookish Expats, don't forget the S in your podcast app. Feel free to connect with me one-on-one with any questions, comments, or to volunteer to be a guest on the podcast. My handle is Steph Fuccio, it's S-T-E-P-H, F-U-C-C-I-O. Literally everywhere online. It is also my Gmail address. Starting in July, we will be using the official Bookish Expats Gmail account, but feel free to email email us there beforehand. It's bookish expats at gmail.com. Pretty straightforward, right? Alright, so one more episode, and then in late July, Tatiana will be joining us for our official new season for. I really look forward to all of the changes that are happening, and I look forward to hearing from you about what you think about all of this bookish madness. Thank you so much, and uh, you know, more soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:26

Do you remember exactly when we met? I wanna write a history, I wanna take it step by step. If I remember in the moment past, I can solve this mystery, I can make it back, I will be I will I will take I will always take this Every moment of going with me each and every best thing As if I had no left and day the squeeze, the green, the screen, green, green, on the twin. It is a little eye, I went up with that new for me to love you. I will remain. I will remain back.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:29

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