A Welsh Expat in Denmark: The Album That Helped Him Settle In: S10E2

Has a song ever carried you through a rough time in your life? That's exactly what happened to British international Karl when he moved to Denmark. 

original publication date: November 12, 2018

More: https://linktr.ee/stephfuccio

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Welcome to the Expat Rewind. My name is Stephanie and I will be your host in this experience. What we're doing in this podcast is reaching back into the first year of an expat or geopath's existence into something online, whether it was via a blog, Facebook, Instagram, any sort of social media feed, or even an email that they sent to a group of people that they knew. And we're going to reach back into that post where they told the world about their experience as an expedige geopath. And then the expedigeopath will reflect on what they think of, what they wrote, what they've learned since then, and anything else that comes up. So I will start out pulling those blog entries that I have from 2003 and 2004 in Taiwan, where I went to live and work and teach English. And then there'll be a post from other folks, and I will label the podcast as such so you know if it's the ongoing narrative of my own blog or if it's a guest post from other folks. When I lived in the middle of the US, I found Amazon delivery services really, really useful. And so I'm excited to have an affiliate link with them. Here's how it works: you don't pay anything, you also don't get a discount. But when you shop normally with the link in the show notes, I get a slight percentage of what you buy. That's it. You click on it, you order, you pay, and then I will see some money show up in my account. And considering how much technology I need to get for the podcast, I I need some funding. He discusses how he found himself once he moved to Denmark and the experiences that he had over the first year that this music that we'll talk about helped him to adjust to life in his adopted country in Denmark. In this interview, you will hear Carl very methodically talk about this band and the impact. The deep emotional impact that this band had on him both before he moved to Denmark and that first one or two years that he was settling in and finding his uh his ex-pat legs in the country. It's funny because you'll hear Carl talk about the abstract nature of the music in the Trouble Will Find Me album from the National. And I couldn't help but think that that kind of abstract, deep emotional sound that he describes is very much so like the ambiguity that we need to get used to when we're first living in a different country. There's a lot of cultural habits that you get used to when you grow up with them that you don't realize until you change cultures. And that kind of abstraction, it sounds like, helped Carl grow into the culture that he was adjusting to in Denmark. And that kind of abstract sound gave him the ability to grow into whatever he needed to, to do what he wanted to do in Denmark, to become the person he wanted to be in Denmark. And I think that kind of abstract music, that kind of ambiguity in a first year in a country, that symmetry, that symmetry is very, very cool. So my disclaimer is in my excitement of uh having Carl on the program, I did not realize that the you can use 30 seconds of music in a podcast without violating any copyright laws is a load of bullshit. So I'm going to release this episode now without any music, and I'll put links down in the show notes to things that we're referencing to so you can get a musical sense of the national without violating any of their well-deserved artistic rights. I'm also going to contact their uh record company and see if we can get permissions to have snippets of this album in the podcast. Should they uh agree, I'm going to re-release this with some edited tracks in there to do justice to the sounds that Carl is referring to in a rebroadcast later on, uh most likely next season or the season after that. So I'm going to work on that on the side. So know that as you're listening to this and craving to hear them without having to go off of the podcast, I'm working on it. Alright, so without further ado, let's listen to what Carl has to say about the impact that this album, the Trouble Will Find Me album from the National, had on his life, his first year or two in Denmark. His new home. Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Carl, for joining us on X Pat Rewind today.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

No problem.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Can you give a quick introduction for our listeners?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah, as you mentioned, my name's Carl. I'm from Wales in the UK originally. Um, 36 years old, and I've been living in Denmark for the last six years. So I moved here in mid-2012, and that was after spending a year backpacking around Southeast Asia, Australia, India.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Did you make it to Vietnam by chance?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

I did make it to Vietnam, yeah. Fantastic, amazing country.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Oh my god, seriously. I lived in in Hanoi for about three years.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

It's a fantastic country. I bought a motorbike when I was down the south and rode from the south to the north. I think a lot of people do that these days, but um, it's a fantastic experience, amazing country.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

It is the place to ride a motorbike, I think. It's really, really awesome.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yeah, the little bit uh unsafe, but uh oh, incredibly yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

But the the fun thing about the fun thing, the fun and kind of weird thing for me to say that it's fun about Vietnam is that traffic in general is so dangerous that even just crossing the street is equally as dangerous as riding a motorbike.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yeah. So it always amazed me that to to cross the road in Vietnam, you have to almost put your life in other people's hands and step out into oncoming traffic. But it works, the system works somehow. I don't know how.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

It's true, it's true. Well, I'm in Shanghai, China right now, and there are times of the day where it's almost the same here. There'll be a crosswalk, but you literally have to go before anybody will stop for you. So it's just kind of hoping that they're decent, and they generally are, but it's it is putting yourself out there first. We're gonna do our first music episode. Yay! Let's do a little bit of the geographical context and then we'll go into the musical context. So, where were you? What how far into the first year were you, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Yeah, so as I mentioned, I moved here mid-2012, and it was towards the end of that year that I first started listening to this particular album, which is Trouble Will Find Me by the National. I don't know if you're a fan yourself, they're an American band from New York. Um, but it's a band that I've listened to over the years, and it's it's one of those groups that I can identify where I was when I started listening to it. It almost defines periods of my lives with certain albums.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Yeah. How did you find out about them?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

So a friend, um, a friend of mine's a big music fan, and uh we're into similar kind of music, you know, Neil Young, um, some indie music, particularly from the UK, and he recommended the national and yeah, immediately sold on them. Immediately sold. And I've seen them live a few times over the years. Thankfully, they they're very popular in Denmark, so I've been lucky enough to see them live on a number of occasions.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

What was it about their sound that resonated with you at that point? Or was it the sound or was it the lyrics or a combination of both?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

I think a mixture. The the lyrics are often abstract, so you almost have to use your imagination. And I prefer lyrics to be uh abstract rather than a songwriter spelling things out for you. I think it's great to use your imagination and also the the sound of the music as well, the cadence of the music. And I as I mentioned, I think I've the reason I have a strong attachment to them is I can remember, like for instance, the album prior to the one we're gonna discuss today, I listened to when I was traveling. So a lot of my experiences of being in Southeast Asia and Australia are linked to this band. So when I came to Denmark, I think I first started listening to this album. Again, it's almost like the soundtrack of that first the first year that I spent in Denmark. And it was a year where I was still um trying to assimilate, settle down, decide if I wanted to stay here, what I wanted to do career-wise. So a lot of important things that I decided in that first year. This is what I would have been listening to in the background, really.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

Okay, so you actually were exposed to the national from via a friend while you were traveling for that six months, not your first year.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

No, yeah, prior. So prior to me moving to Denmark is when I first started listening to them.

SPEAKER_04 9:21

Yeah, but it was one of those things that was really a strong part of your first year.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And then there was a lot of change going on in that first year. The the album as well helped me meet people. A lot of my friends were into the same kind of music, something we bond over. So a similar way to how I am with my friends back home in the UK. It was the same in Denmark where we bond over a shared interest in in certain um types of music.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Oh, fantastic. Do you play any music?

SPEAKER_02 9:53

I don't, and my singing voice is even worse than my music. Please don't ask me to sing any lights.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

No, oh no, oh gosh, no, I wouldn't I would not do that. You mentioned some of the some of the things that hit you when you first moved to Denmark. Um can you mention like the strongest things that you felt?

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah, well I I moved to Denmark because whilst I was traveling, I met uh a Danish girl and we kept in touch. Yeah, this is such a clear holiday romance. Um so we we kept in touch. I moved to Australia to continue with my travels. She moved back to Denmark, and then after spending some time in Australia, I decided to visit her in Denmark, see what it was all about. But my plan was to go back to Australia. But I came to Denmark and decided to stay really. Unfortunately, the relationship hasn't survived to this day, but nonetheless, I moved to Denmark and it's been um a real positive move for me, definitely. But initially, I think there's certain differences, particularly as as I was traveling. I think when I first came to Denmark, I was very much in that mode. I saw Denmark almost as another another country to visit. I never really thought I would stay here this long necessarily. But over the course of that first year, I settled in, I came to appreciate what the country had to offer and decided to stay. And it's been yeah, very rewarding, rewarding six years in Denmark.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

What was the hardest part of the first year?

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Finding employment. I think a challenge, not speaking a language, um, and not at that point, not necessarily having a a career. So when I came to Denmark, I did the the thing that all um British and Irish people do. I went to find a job in an Irish pub. So um, that helped me gain um a social network, allowed me to meet people. It was really, really important. I think with without finding that job, I don't think I would necessarily be in Denmark now. That was one of the major challenges is finding work, supporting yourself, and then making some decisions. Okay, what what do I want to do in this country? What do I want to get out of it? What do I want to contribute? Those kind of questions.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Those big questions, yeah, for sure. For sure, for sure. Now you said the album was Trouble Will Find Me. Is that right?

SPEAKER_06 12:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

That okay, we have to talk about that name. Um what what does that what did that mean to you? Because it sounded like lyrics were important, so I'm guessing album titles and song titles might have been important too. What did what does that title mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I've never given him much thought actually, but now you mention it, it's kind of uh yeah, ironic, trouble will find me. Um it's quite ominous title song title. But I I think I enjoyed uh there's a sort of dark element to the music, an introspective element. As I mentioned, the the lyrics can often be a little abstract, so it's it's up to the to the listener or the reader to um to interpret from that, really. And as I mentioned, that it wasn't so much individual songs, it was more that the album was uh the soundtrack to my first year in Denmark.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Where did you listen to it?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Well, I have it on vinyl actually. Um my ex-girlfriend bought it for me on vinyl, and the the album itself it is a work of art, so some of the pictures in there, so I have it framed on my wall at home, some of the inserts from the album. So it's it's it's constantly there. So not just listening to the music, I think the the visual aspect of the album as well. It's um it's quite a stark piece when you look at it. So I've got it at home at the moment, yeah, on the wall, pride of place.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

So are you saying you only listened to it when you were at home?

SPEAKER_02 13:55

When I was working at the pub as well, I used to play it, and I'm not sure all the patrons appreciated my musical choices, but it was very self-indulgent of me to put this music on and force everyone else to listen to it. But I don't think they minded too much, thankfully.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Was it too serene for them? Did they want something more a beat or something?

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, when you play music in a pub, you you can't please all the people all the time. So um some of them liked it, some of them prefer the traditional fiddle and the flute of Irish music, but I was able to get away with it. You can you can play quite an eclectic mix of music these days in pubs, so I was lucky enough that I could I could stick this on and and people enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_04 14:47

Okay, so I'm I'm trying to look up the album art right now, and so far I'm getting the somewhat creepy album cover of the woman's.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

Yeah, that reminds me of Dexter, the TV show for some reason. That's an odd analogy. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

It sticks with you. It's it's it's quite dark. It's not something you forget in a hurry. And uh black and white as well.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Sure, sure, sure. Okay, and that's um so was that when you say the the album art, was that the main feature, or was there other stuff inside like on the slides and the inserts?

SPEAKER_02 15:26

There's also other pictures as well. So they're obviously designed to be displayed around the home or put in frames. So uh the artwork when it comes to vinyl is is very important, I think, for for some for some uh bands anyway, at least.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

Oh yeah, for sure. No, I remember having vinyl in the 70s and 80s and whatnot. I miss vinyl, actually. I loved getting like a new 45. I don't know if you ever had the the smaller, because I'm guessing that was a 33, right? It's the big album.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, I'm not I I I'm too young to remember vinyl back in the day. Yeah, my yeah, my my mother and my father playing vinyl, but I never guy. That's my era, the CD.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

I hear you. Well, vinyl, it's really it's really nice to listen to when you're in a one stationary place, but it it wasn't mobile, so I've definitely switched over to digital pretty early because I I do listen to a lot of music as I'm just doing a million different things.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

But there's a there's a certain sound to it that you don't you can't definitely, and it's made a huge comeback from what it's like over in China, but certainly in Europe, um there's lots of album record shops, and I think people want something tangible since music has become digital. You don't own anything, you might listen to a song, but that's as deep as the connection goes. If you own something physical, you can read the lyrics, you can look at the artwork. I think you you have a stronger connection to the music. Maybe that's the reason I I think so much of this album is because I've got it on vinyl as well.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

You still have the album.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah, yeah, I've still still got it on vinyl at home amongst my other albums. I don't listen to vinyl as much as I should, but it's nice just to have a physical record collection. Same as a book collection. I think it's always nice to walk into someone's home and see what kind of music they're into, or see what kind of books they read. I think you can tell a lot from that's very true.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Where do you listen to most of your music now? Is it on a portable device, your phone, computer?

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Yeah, on my phone really. Um but I I don't necessarily listen to as much music as I as I used to. I think podcasts have replaced what I used to do with music. Yeah, I I put a podcast on in the background or I listen to it if I'm commuting to work in instead of music. But there's still moments where I'll put music on and listen to music. But um podcast is my is my usual medium these days.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Yeah, yeah. I I must admit, especially with the research I've been doing the past year, I tend to listen to podcasts. One, when I want to hear something new or learn something, and two, when I want to steal ideas from what other podcasters are doing. So I'm kind of double tasking in my podcasting. So my music, my knowledge of current music has gone way down because I'm completely out of touch now. But I do like the balance of music and words.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Yeah. I think um a lot of the podcasts I listen to a wide range of podcasts, but I listen to some true crime ones, and that's almost like an audiobook.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Yeah, those are so popular right now.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, they they're huge from the true crime podcasts, and as I mentioned, just the range of podcasts that are out there and the information that's out there. I've learned a lot, I think, from listening to a wide range.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

There are quite a few. There's two that I can think of. There's two music podcasts that I listen to. One is from the New York Times, and another one I don't really remember what if it's a slight one or an independent one.

SPEAKER_05 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

But they're both pretty interesting deep dives into certain albums or certain artists or things like that. If you want, I can send them to you. You can kind of get a look at it.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah, that'll be great. I listened to one myself, um, and that's about the influence that certain of people have had on music. Um, there was one about the Bee Gees, and I never realized that the Bee Gees.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

I think that's one of the ones I can't think. I always forget the name of it, but I think that's one of the ones I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah, it probably is, actually. I think it's called the Hit Parade.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Yes, yes, exactly. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah, we both listen to the Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

My dataphone's in the other room. I don't like keeping it near me because I will get distracted when I'm recording, but yeah, that's definitely one of them. And the the New York Times one is called popcast. Okay, and it's not as curated as the the hit parade, but it definitely is an interesting analysis of different artists and different uh kinds of music and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah, I think it's interesting to learn about the genesis of certain genres. How what how has that come about? Where did the spark of of the nation come to start that off? And I I find it fascinating that you can trace these almost family trees of music that came after certain artists like craft work and people like that, highly influential musicians that started completely new musical genres.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Totally, totally. And for stuff that we go through when we're younger, and then to like hear somebody kind of chronologically lay it out with all kinds of perspective in there, it's just like, oh, I didn't realize that as it was happening. You know, it's nice to get that perspective. But let's go back to Denmark in 2012. So you said there wasn't any one particular song. Does that mean that you just put the album on and just listen to it the whole way through?

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah, often I can say that I don't think there's a bad song on the album, which is um, I think the album as a format is is it's not as important as it used to be. I hate to sound like one of these old people music isn't what it used to be, but I think the album as as a format, as a as a piece of art, it's not as important nowadays since music has become portable and digital, it's more the single. So as a as a piece of art from start to finish, I think listening to it in in its entirety makes you appreciate some of its parts more.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. It's been a long time since I've had a whole album that I just put on and listened to.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Um, and it took me a while to shift from liking a whole album to being able to like an artist, even if there were only like maybe half of their songs that I liked, because I hated skipping over ones because I felt like I was doing a disservice to the album itself. So yeah, it is it is quite a shift.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

And and I think the the arrangement of the album as well, the somebody has chosen to put one song after another for a particular reason to invoke an emotion or get something from a listener. So I think the composition of the album is is important. As well.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Yeah, okay, good point. Let's try to let's try to map that to your Denmark experience. What was the emotional trajectory of the album?

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Um it's it starts with a song called I Should Live in Salt. And while that sounds very depressing, I should live in Salt, like S A. I should live in Salt.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

It's very I think quite quite an evocative song title. And some people would argue that the album is depressing, but um I wouldn't agree. I find it uplifting and it illuminates those those dark corners, I think, of our consciousness. It's a bit more real than something that is upbeat and poppy. But yeah, that's that's the opening song. And then the second song is called Demons again, rather depressing uh song title. But you have to listen to these songs, they're not as depressing as they sound.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Don't worry about our impression of it. Tell me your impression of it. So it starts out with those dark corners in that first song. And demons, does it stay in those dark corners or does it go to a different emotional place?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

It gets a little bit more lively, more upbeat towards the middle songs such as Sea of Love, Heaven Faced, even from the title, you can tell they're a bit more positive, I would say. But I I think the album as a whole follows the same kind of theme throughout.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

What would you say that theme is?

SPEAKER_02 23:35

There's a certain melancholy to it. As I mentioned, the lyrics are abstract, it's it's playful, and when you listen to the the writing process that they went through on the album, it was almost childlike, he mentions. It was a joy to write, it was easy to write based on his previous writing experiences. And I think that comes across in music itself.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Is the musical part of this song's is it's is it very simple and light, or is it like a deep, complex sound?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

A mixture of both, really. It'll it'll be quite light and sparse at times, and then quite heavy at times, and he's no Mariah Carey in terms of his voice. He can't hit those high notes.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

It's a lot more feeling. Some of the songs, it's almost like spoken word. Other songs, he'll be growling deep. Um, and then with the the live performances, he'll walk off stage and he'll walk not just into the crowds, to the back of the arena, um crowd surfing. And I when you when you look, he he I think he used to work on Wall Street. I think he was um a stockbroker. It's not what you expect from your average front man, but he he's he's a fantastic showman. He really is.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Hex Pats and Geopats, what do you do with the annoying paper mail that you get to your old addresses in your home country? For a few years I'd have all of my mail forward to one friend, and then I'd feel guilty for bothering them so much. So then I'd have a family member um deal with my mail and so on and so forth. And I did this for about like what 12, 13 years, and it got annoying, and let's face it, I missed some mail because people have better things to do than look after my paper correspondence. So I finally broke down and got a service from traveling mailboxes. They will literally receive your mail, you get a US address, you get to pick the city that it's in, and you receive mail, and they'll let you know when mail comes in. They'll open it, scan it for you so you can read it. If you really need to, they'll forward it to you for a fee. You can also get packages delivered as well, and so there's like a variety of different services that you can have where you don't have to keep bugging your friends and family to deal with your paper mail. So if you go to stefffuccio.weebly.com, it's s t-e-p-h f u c io dot weebly, w-e-e-b-l-y.com. If you go to the bottom, you'll see the blue ad on the right, traveling mailbox. Click on that. I am now an affiliate program with them, so if you join their services, we both end up very, very happy campers, and you never have to ask your friends or family to receive your mail again. It's truly a beautiful thing. Now, you said you started listening to it when you were traveling for six months. Were you getting the same things from it when you were traveling as that first year in Denmark?

SPEAKER_02 26:42

And that was the previous album that I was listening to whilst I was traveling. So that album defines my travels, that and a few other albums. I spent a lot of time listening to music during my trip.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

Okay, okay. So the Trouble Will Find Me album, did that come out the first year you were in Denmark?

SPEAKER_02 27:01

The first year I was in Denmark, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

And some friends from back home they came to visit me. Um we went to see the national live. So that was that was a really great experience for me. My friends coming to visit my new home, and we went to see a band that we both enjoyed. It was yeah, it was a great experience.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Yeah. Did they know the band before they went to see them with you?

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Yeah, my front my my friends and myself were into the same kind of music. Um they appreciated them just as much as me.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

Nice. Those dark corners from the beginning. Well, some of the songs that you mentioned. What were the dark corners of Denmark that first year for you?

SPEAKER_02 27:48

That's a good question. Come into Denmark, it's very similar culturally to the UK, very similar, and there's a lot of British TV here, everyone speaks English, but there's this small nuances that you don't initially see after you spend some time in the country, and it's those small nuances that used to drive me crazy initially.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Examples, examples.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

For instance, this is gonna sound really petty, but there's no queuing culture in Denmark.

SPEAKER_05 28:18

You're kidding.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Don't know how to form a queue.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Yeah, you're totally kidding.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And coming from the UK, probably the same as the states. Is this that's a big if if people don't know how to queue, then chaos ensues.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

Oh, it's it's we're not quite as serious about it, but we will grumble when people cut in front of us or try or like not adhere to the line. Wow, I did not know.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

If you jumping in front of someone in front of the queue in the UK is pretty big deal, you would never dream of doing that. Yeah, so when I came to Denmark, it was those those small little nuances that I couldn't get used to, and I and I think because Denmark and the UK are so similar, it just accentuated those small differences even more. But yeah, there's a lot of sim similarities between the countries, so settling in was was pretty pretty easy, but again, there's those small, small little things that become more important than they should be, I think.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

How would you handle those moments when you when stuff like that would happen and you'd be like, This is not okay, but wait, it is okay here, but it's not okay for me. How did you handle that?

SPEAKER_02 29:38

You almost have to check yourself, but sometimes it would just come out. It was almost like I would have an out-of-body experience where I didn't have any control over saying to someone, excuse me, I was next. I think you pushed in front of me. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm used to it now. It's one of those feel this is my home now, and you have to get over these things. And in the grand scheme of things, nobody's hurt, nobody's injured, it's just somebody pushing in front of me in the in the queue, and I should be less uptight about the yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

It does take a while to get used to. I've lived a lot of my adult life, a lot of my working life over in Asia, and a lot of the countries here, Japan, the definite exception, a line is a new thing when you're trying to do something. And when I traveled a lot for work last year, I was going into a lot of uh train stations and a lot of airports, and everybody and their brother, and especially the older grandmas, would just go straight in front of you, no apologies. And I learned to make kind of a game out of it. And I took my little carry-on and I would kind of use it to get in front so there was no space for people to cut in front of me. And then I'd kind of use my elbows to lean over, and I started to kind of do different things so that I wouldn't get frustrated, but that they also wouldn't get in front of me because I'm like, really? I also need to get on this train.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

That's a good tactic.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

So well, I had to. I mean, the I don't know if you've ever seen pictures of how crazy. Well, were you in China? Because you said north, southeast Asia.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

No, I didn't I didn't go to China actually, no.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

But some of the crowded spaces in Southeast Asia are probably similar to the train stations that I'm talking to. And so if you don't push, you will never get there. So yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

In India when I was traveling, and I imagine you know the size of the population there is kind of similar to China in urban areas, so just the sheer amount of people you have to elbow someone, you have to push in front of somebody.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Exactly, exactly. Not only will you not get to where you need to go, but you'll get pushed backwards so that you'll end up for your way.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yeah. But also the things that I've come to accept now. I it was more like coming from the UK saying please and thank you as part of culture. That's a huge, hugely significant cultural thing is saying please and thank you and manners and how are you. And what I struggled to deal with when I first moved to Denmark is that they're very I I prefer it now, actually. They're very straight with people. There's no if you ask someone how are you, you truly want to know how they are, you truly want to know how they feel. It's not a passing comment. You say, but you don't really mean, it's more being polite. Whereas in Denmark, they there's not so much a culture of saying please and thank you with everything you you do.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

And initially, I used to get particularly working in a pub, I used to get a little bit offended. But then you have to realize this is just this is the way things are, it's not going to operate the same as it does back home. And this is the way things work here, and and and they really do work here in Denmark.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Now I don't know a lot about Danish culture, but I know I've heard that in Germany, which is sort of close by, sort of, at least coming from the far away, that they're very blunt and like friends or no friends, they'll just tell you what they think and you know, kind of not have a lot of those niceties.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Is it is it similar to that kind of I think the Nordic countries they operate under a social democratic model. So it's very much everyone's in this together. There's um something called Yantalong, which Denmark has adopted, is it's similar throughout the Nordic countries where you don't think you're better than anyone else. I think it's the the almost the opposite to the states where you need to fight to succeed and these things. Whereas in Denmark, everyone's opinion seems to matter, everyone's welfare matters, and that translates and translates into the workplace as well. It's very democratic. Yeah, people care about you, people care what you've got to say, and it's been a real eye-opener, as I mentioned, culturally very similar to the UK, but in certain aspects, a world apart and and and streets ahead of of the way things operate in the UK.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

I think. Was it hard to get work there?

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Not necessarily. I think when most people move to when they go traveling, the first job they look for is in a bar or a restaurant in a service industry. So being from the UK, it wasn't that difficult. There's a lot of Irish bars here, so I was lucky to find that job. And then throughout my my first year in Denmark, I was meeting people, working at the pub, settling in, starting to learn Danish. And then I was thinking to myself, okay, what do I want to do with my life here? And I decided to go back into education. But it would have been open to me in the UK, but it would have cost me an awful lot of money to go back to school as a mature student. And in Denmark, I was offered that opportunity and I took it. So I'm currently still studying, finishing my studies soon. But I've been doing that for the last five years in Denmark.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Yeah, what are you studying?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

I'm studying marketing. So I'm on my internship at the moment at a company called Sleek Note. And as I said, the company culture is completely different to the UK. But being able, being able to study for free with support from the government in my adopted country has been has been amazing. Something I I never thought would would happen, really.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

That's fantastic. Let's take a moment to compare your career trajectory with the lead singer because you mentioned something earlier about the lead singer being like a stockbroker or something, and then him switching over, and now he's obviously the lead singer of this group and a really good showman. Was some of your attraction to the group a connection to his story or his experiences or anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Subconsciously, you you might have hit on something.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

They I could be making stuff up. I do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

No, no, I think subconsciously uh music seems to be disposable. X Factor, pop stars, these kind of things. They have one hit and they're gone. And maybe I was attracted to the fact that this band, they're real people, they've had lives. This is this is something they've decided to pursue out outside of their careers. They haven't been born pop stars, you know, they've lived normal lives and then changed careers and been very successful. So subconsciously, possibly.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

What were you doing before you went traveling?

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I lived in the UK for five years. Uh, because when I was I was 17 I joined uh the British Army and I was there for five years, and then left when I was 22, moved to Spain for one year, and I moved back to the UK. I spent five years there, then I went traveling. So I've been a bit of a nomad over the years, really.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

I hear you on that one.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Some time bouncing around the world before before settling here, and I think my experiences of traveling and seeing different countries enables me to appreciate what I have here in Denmark, which is my home now and a country that I'll I'll stay. This is my home now.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you learned Danish?

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Well, I started learning Danish when I first came here, but I had to finish in order to pursue my my other studies.

SPEAKER_05 37:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

But I'm learning Danish more by osmosis than anything else. It just seems to pass into me. So I'm not, you know, I I can't speak as well as a native Dane, but I can understand a fair amount. But Denmark often ranks uh the highest for non-native speakers speaking English. So everybody, even old people, young people, they all speak English very well. So it's almost uh a vicious circle or a double-edged sword that the onus isn't necessarily there to learn the language fluently.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

Are your marketing studies in Danish or in English?

SPEAKER_02 38:06

No, they're in English.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

So there's a study here as well.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

But I watch Danish TV and things like this. So I I can I can get by.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

Well, that's pretty impressive because TV can have a lot of slang and a lot of more casual language, which maybe sometimes harder to pick up.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

If I watch TV that's in English, I'll have Danish subtitles on as well.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

Oh, that's good. So that helps me.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

So I'm able to read Danish very well, but the pronunciation. Um I don't know about yourself, but being from the UK, speaking other languages is not there's no importance attached to it really when you're in school. When you're growing up, it's only when you get a bit older you think, I wish that I'd had the building blocks of learning other languages from a young age.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Fair enough. Yeah, and the teaching of languages is not very good in the US. We give some lip service to it, but we don't actually put the practice into it or necessarily value it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

So later in life, you're able to break down how to learn a language.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

Yeah. In China and in other places that I've lived overseas, I know folks who are raising kids and they're growing up bilingually in another culture, and then they'll go, you know, to their home country culture during the summers and whatnot. And I'm I'm so jealous that they have that fluency in both languages growing up. Because if you start it early, like you said, it's just so much easier later in life to pick up new ones.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Definitely. I I see the same with a lot of my friends' children. How my friends will speak English to them and they'll answer in Danish. So there's not only are they speaking one language but they're mixing the languages. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

So cool. Do you listen to any Danish music?

SPEAKER_02 39:54

I do, but that seems to be just overhearing songs here and there. There's some really iconic Danish songs from really iconic Danish artists over the years that are played at every party, uh, you know, you over here on the radio. But there's some some Danish artists that passed away recently, Kim Larsen. So the country was in mourning for a few days. It was a big parade on the streets of Copenhagen for him.

SPEAKER_05 40:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah. But a lot of Danish music as well, is as I mentioned, they speak excellent English, the Danes. So a lot of music is written in English now, particularly young musicians.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

You mentioned the career trajectory of the lead singer beforehand, the writing process. It sounds like you read quite a bit about the band, also. What are some other things that you know about them?

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Oh, that's a big question. They've got an excellent uh tour DVD that I would highly recommend watching. You don't need to be a fan of a band to watch it because it's it's not your standard tour guide, they don't just show them playing in Barcelona one night, Milan the next night. The brother of the lead singer, he's almost the black sheep of the family. He lives at home in his parents' basement, he's never had a job, and his brother is the lead singer of one of the biggest bands in in America. So the lead singer allowed his brother to make the documentary. Oh wow, and it is a fascinating examination of brotherhood and dysfunctional families. Really, really interesting, and it's it's it's really heartwarming that he's allowed his brother, who's the yeah, the the one who always guessed things wrong, he's given him the responsibility of recording, producing this document. Yeah, and it is it's really heartwarming. You can see there's there's real brotherly love between them.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Yeah. Oh my gosh. And for which album, uh for which tour was that for?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

That was for the Trouble with Find Me Tour. I'm I'm pretty sure, yeah. But uh it's called uh Mistaken for Strangers. Okay, and it's a fantastic documentary. It's not so much uh uh a recap of the tour. It's really, really interesting. I would highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

That was really cool. Now I just met you like 43 minutes ago, so feel free not to answer. I can edit anything out later. Do you have any siblings?

SPEAKER_02 42:40

I do, yes. I've got an older sister and a younger brother and sister, or half brother and sister.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

Okay. And is there any connection to the the lead singer and his brother, like that kind of relationship within your family?

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Not necessarily. Maybe my sister has been very successful in her life. So maybe I'm the the brother recording the documentary in my relationship with my sister, I'm not too sure.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

No, you're not you're not living at home with that. So I don't think that counts. I don't think that counts. Okay, so fair enough, there isn't that. How about the outsider perspective? When you were in Wales before you left for the UK or Spain or any of these things, did you feel at home in Wales?

SPEAKER_02 43:27

That's a really good question. I think I joined the army when I was 17. So then part of my development was whilst I was in the military, so I had to leave home at 17 and I was gone then until I was 22. So when I went back home after after leaving the army, there was almost part of me that didn't feel at home there any longer. Because I'd gone away, because I developed as a person and changed as a person. Coming back was great, but I knew that it was never going to be the place that I I spent the rest of my life. And there was part of me that thought, I see my friends settling down, see my friends really happy. And I thought to myself, why can't I just why can't I just be happy here? Why can't I just settle here and have the same kind of life as my friends? But there was something that that it was never going to be for me. And I was always looking to go away traveling. But unfortunately at that time my father was sick and then he was sick for a number of years with leukemia and then he passed away in 2010. So after he passed away then that was the the the catalyst for me to say okay I need to do something with myself here I need to to to put myself out there and see what happens and I went traveling and it it's opened up a lot of doors for me coming to Denmark meeting my ex-girlfriend is I don't know what I would have been doing if I hadn't have gone traveling.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

Before you left for the army did you do you have any memories of feeling like an outsider or you just felt like this is my home no thoughts about it kind of thing?

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Joining the military was awesome that that interested me from a young age but moving away was was part of the reason as well the adventure that's attached to it and and trying new things. And I I look back now and and I try and think of myself as a 17 year old and I I I can't believe that I made that decision. I look back now and it shocks me I think I was a child and I made that decision on my own.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

Yeah 17's very early to do something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Yeah it's it's crazy my mother had to give me give her authorization to send me off because I was under 18 wow so okay let's do a comparison here from when you left home at 17 to go into the army versus your first travel to a very different foreign country what would you say was the stronger culture shock adjustment period I think going into the the military you almost swap your your real family for almost a military surrogate family you know you've gone from one institution which is school and and you have your home life and your family structure into the military which has its own structure which has its own support network so it's it's not too much of a shock. You've still got support there it's a shock in terms of you know I don't want to get up at five o'clock in the morning and go for a run but I think leaving the military that was more of a shock coming out of that having that okay what what do I do myself now I've got nobody telling me what what to do and what direction to do go with my life so that was a it's something I had to deal with the adjustment there. But when I went traveling the places I went were choices of my own so I knew what I was in for right but moving to Denmark was not so much a culture shock but when you visit a place is very different to when you go somewhere and you think this is where I'm going to stay now this oh yeah I need to to to deal with on a daily basis this is what I I need to learn to function in this system and how do I get the most how how do I contribute? So probably the same yourself in China visiting is one thing but when you live there it's almost a completely different proposition.

SPEAKER_04 47:40

We have a few different ways that you can feedback. So if you go to stephpuccio dot weebly.com forward slash contact let me do that a little slower. S-t-e-p-h f u c io dot w e-b l y dot com forward slash contact you'll see all kinds of ways you can contact me and let me know what you think of this podcast. I have email WeChat if you're in China or uh have used WeChat before and are still signed up Twitter, LinkedIn and my new favorite thing is SpeakPi over on the right hand side of that page you'll be able to leave a sound recording basically a voice message. You just hit the start recording button that's in bright orange and uh once you preview it and decide that you want to send that message you press send and I receive an email with the voice message. I can also respond in a voice message there as well. It's a really really cool feature I can't believe they have this available for free but until they get smarter about that I'm gonna take advantage of it because it is such a cool feature. Thank you so much. I appreciate all of your input my my husband and I I I started traveling and living overseas well before we met and then we met and we started to move to different countries together and there were a few times not many but a few times when we travel to a country for vacation and then go, oh I think this should be our next country.

SPEAKER_05 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

And then we move there and try to make it work and realize financially and culturally that was not a good move. So we've kind of switched to looking for places where we can be financially okay and then travel where we want to for fun as opposed to trying to live in a place that we think we want to that we don't know very well and then trying to scramble to get the finances up to speed. So we've we've done a complete uh three 360 180 whatever the thing is there.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

I think that's a sensible thing to do you can always visit these places.

SPEAKER_04 49:37

Especially if you have work where you can have vacation time and extra funds and stuff. And that was the thing it'd be fine if we were making ends meet we were in the TEFL field the teaching English overseas field and in a lot of those situations it was very hand to mouth and so it wasn't like we had all this extra leeway for for other stuff. So we're like okay we've got to get we have to change how we're doing this. So it it took a few countries but we're like okay this is this is a bit old now. Interesting is a little worn out we did shift. But man when I first left to go live overseas I was like I'm picking every country I'm gonna learn so much about it and you know just so culturally stubborn.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Yeah and life gets in the way sometimes or not in the way but you have to live your life in these countries it's not just about visiting museums and visiting the sites it's something you need to to look at the whole pros and cons of living in a in a certain country. A friend of mine moved to Berlin from from Denmark and within six months he'd be back in Denmark.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

Really yeah Berlin's kind of on our radar I'm curious why they moved back it's a great play I love Berlin it's a fantastic city but working there um it's I think it can be quite difficult.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Yeah depending on what kind of career you're looking for.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

But yeah I've heard that I actually listened to a podcast recently the expat cast Nicole does a bunch of things about being an expat in Germany and she did an entire episode on finding a job and the paperwork involved and after that I was like maybe I'll wait till I have remote work and then just go live there and work remotely because it just sounded like a nightmare. I mean if you if I move there and think this is it this is my last country okay fine I'll invest the time but for three four five years to do all of that just sounded just pretty intense. Yeah sometimes the bureaucracy is can put you off live in some way I think for sure for sure like in China and a lot of places in Northeast Asia the language barrier is so big that the companies will come in and do a lot of the stuff for you because they assume that you can't function and a lot of us can especially to that degree with that kind of vocabulary and so you kind of forget that when you go back to countries that are closer where they figure you can function and it's like oh no where's the HR person that helps me go to the post office or helps me set up my bank account or helps me do my visa and they're like what yeah maybe not the girlfriend did she listen to them did she listen to the national she bought me the album actually okay yeah I think it was Christmas I can't quite remember but yeah but yeah she she listened to them.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

She was a fan as I said they've got quite a big following in Denmark so luckily enough we were able to to see them live and and she was into the music as well so maybe that helped that that helped me settle the fact that we could listen to these things together and yeah yeah because a lot of times when you're in a country for for more than a year there's a certain point where there's there's kind of the hardship of the initial period and then there's this kind of break where it just generally gets easier there are hard moments but there it generally just kind of eases up a lot.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

When do you think that happened for you?

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Because I I went into education so I started working in a bar spent some time there weighing up my options and decided that I'd like to study again and that my foreseeable future was in Denmark but then in order to study it very time consuming and also I had to work on the weekends so there was a there was a four year period where I was in in school Monday to Friday and then I would work on the weekends. So that was a real challenge so I would say it's only been maybe the last two years where I've I've managed to find a different job and um progress with my studies that I've had more free time and I and I feel more more settled here. Right right just because I've got more free time and more more time to do things and see the country and and and spend time with my friends and that kind of thing. So you're saying it's been a it was a few years of getting that grounding yeah just because in order to study you have to work part time as well it was a big commitment took a lot of of effort and dedication to to get past that but definitely I'm starting to reap the benefits now definitely for sure. Wow when was the last time you listened to this album I listened to it recently actually after we started corresponding yeah um and it it prior to that it's probably been been quite a while it's not something that I as I said I listen to a lot of podcasts. Yeah but even listening to it over the last week or so still has an impact on me still reminds me of those things and same as as other albums that I listened to when I was traveling it almost transport you back there. Yeah what exactly does it remind you of it reminds me of new experiences in Denmark that first year everything is new you're having to adapt to certain things whereas now I they don't become mundane but things become everyday so it reminds me of having that sense of intrigue of living in a new country and new experiences something I still experience now but not to that extent.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

Right right right I know you said you like to listen to the whole album but was there any song or any particular lyrics or chorus or anything that stuck out to you where that really helped you during that few years where you were transitioning into the culture well a mixture of of that album and the previous album listen to them both but I wouldn't say a particular lyric more the album as a whole were there days when you would come home from from work or study and you'd just be like I need that album now I don't think it it I listen to it in that way but having it on vinyl the whole ritual of taking it out of the sleeve putting it on the record player switching the record player over there's almost something cathartic about that ritual of listening to music it's not a case of just pressing a button. Yeah that just reminded me my morning coffee ritual when you were saying so what would you listen to it in the morning or no not necessarily in the morning but whenever I I listened to it it would be on vinyl and I think that gives you a closer connection to to the music physically as I said taking it out putting it on flipping it over yeah you have to work to listen to it so when you listen to it recently was it in vinyl form or was it in digital form or was it like online or something? I listen to it on vinyl so it's but that you you can tell there's slight differences when you listen to on a set of headphones for instance things that you're never gonna hear on vinyl but there's something that's a little bit more raw when you listen to on vinyl I think I can't stop staring at the album art here I have it over just over to the left from where I'm staring at us and honestly um when you first do you remember your impression when you first saw the album yeah initially I was thinking what is what how have they concocted this picture?

SPEAKER_02 57:40

Because I initially I thought is it a reflection?

SPEAKER_04 57:42

Is it another picture but you can almost see the the person looking out the corner of their eye yeah see okay for the listeners I'll put it in the in the show notes I'll put an image on Instagram when I publish this but yeah because it's it's I think the same woman and part of her head kind of neck to neck but we don't see any mouth and it looks like one set of eyes is open and one set of eyes is closed I think yeah from the angle that she's looking it looks like her eyes are closed but in the reflection you can see that her eyes are slightly oh that there's just a mirror between the two yeah yeah that totally could be that it's just the angle of how we're looking at it that could yeah but I like the fact that you have to look at it more than once to figure out what's going on. Oh for sure for sure and it's so interesting that just looking at it once even though it it it's slightly it's slightly creepy it's intriguing and it's not gory. So it's like well that's that's weird but wait let me look again like it it kind of invites you to to look in and it it's got that kind of abstract like try to make meaning out of me thing.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Yeah it looks a little as you said a little bit unnerving when you first look at it it takes more investigation but I think a beautiful album cover.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

Yeah and is she looking at us or is she looking at herself?

SPEAKER_02 59:08

I think she's looking at us it might be like one of those paintings they have in haunted houses where the eyes follow you around the room regardless of where you are no if you had that album cover on like all four walls of your room you'd never you'd never leave creep you out I think I think maybe maybe but it is a very interesting album cover.

SPEAKER_04 59:29

And is it a drawing or is it a photo?

SPEAKER_02 59:31

It looks like a photo right does it look like a photo yeah it's a photo yeah very very interesting do you know anything about the artist that did that or the photographer that that did that me took took no but I know that the um other band members they usually produce the artwork so it's probably somebody else from the band that's that's taking that picture okay now you mentioned podcast a few times and that makes me very happy you mentioned the album had a melancholy but like a deep meaningful abstract like soothing I think soothing grounding effect on you is there any podcast that you listen to that has that effect on you that's another good question. Yeah I listened to one podcast by an Irish singer slash artist slash political commentator called Blind Boy he's got a set of podcasts called the Blind Boy Podcast and again just the the the sheer randomness of the topics and um the way in which he'll introduce topics that he's a working class man he comes from a working class community but the things he speaks about like art appreciation and things like this is it's unique. It doesn't necessarily need to be highbrow you don't need to look at art in in that way it can be um appreciated by everybody and the way he breaks it down is fascinating I think and the number the number of topics that he talks about is is impressive. So that's a a podcast that I've I listen to regularly regularly listen to that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:20

That sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

It sounds like one of the long form podcasts is it is it a pretty long one yeah it's about an hour long but he started the podcast just to promote sales of his book so he was reading some of his short stories some of his short well the the imagination the man has is is crazy really abstract.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Yeah yeah did you read his book first no I I listened to the to the podcast um and it was almost like an audio book initially and then he developed that so he he starts talking about different topics and I highly recommend I think you should give it a listen I I really yeah I I listen to so many I love new podcasts absolutely love them the first five minutes of a new podcast I'm all like what's this gonna be like what are they gonna sound like how am I gonna connect with them meeting a new person yeah um somewhat similar but not at all similar is um have you do you listen to tangentially speaking? No it's um I cannot for the life of me remember the gentleman's name right now but he's very like no no frills different topics that come up sometimes he'll bring on friends or guests and whatnot and they'll talk about what ever the topic or thing is or he'll just talk about what's happening and he's just very to the point very matter of fact very blunt very but still he's got I don't want to say spiritual because that sounds out there but he's got like a connected side a deep thinky side like he long view kind of perspective and he's he's very very interesting interesting person. I don't know his backstory at all I just started listening to it thanks to a recommendation a few weeks ago and it's really interesting. They're super long they're like hour and a half two hours kind of thing but super interesting no I think I'll I'll maybe give that a listen yeah I'll I'll send you I'll send you a link.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

I end up always having like notes of things that I send people at the end of a conversation do you have any final thoughts on this album and what it meant to you those first couple of years that you were in Denmark band the national I first got into them through friends back home and then being able to to meet friends in Denmark with similar musical tastes I think it helped me settle the country didn't seem so alien and having a network having some friends where you can bond over a shade appreciation of something could be football music anything that that really helped me settle and also having my friends from the UK come over to visit me and we went to watch the national play live I think they're a the common thread throughout my first year in Denmark and yeah the the album and the the music has helped me settle in Denmark definitely yeah I heard so many different pieces of advice when I first moved overseas as an adult and a lot of them was just immerse yourself deeply in the culture and try not to speak your own language and all of these like really intense extreme actions to adjust quickly and the more I talk to people the more I think of my own my own culture shock when it was strong and when it wasn't strong these kind of bridging tools artifacts things seem to make it actually easier to adjust. Yeah I agree it's great to immerse yourself in another culture but you still need those links back to home and past and things like that. Definitely I agree yeah and and just like with the music just like with the national it gave you a tool to create a new community in your new country I mean that's that's yeah I've I've I've taken essentially if you break it down I've taken something from from home from my path to use it to to settle in more easy and that's that's a beautiful thing I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:21

Yeah all right well I like to pick guests brains on where else this podcast could go. So let's see we've done blogs poems pictures Instagram feeds and now music can you think of any other medium that would give itself to this kind of podcast could talk about podcasts the way we've just discussed podcasts Oh gosh yeah we could they were around long enough ago that people could have had that in their first yeah. Definitely I don't know why that didn't come to me you can't see the wood for the trees Wow, yeah, no, seriously. Wow. Okay, yeah. So dear listeners, if there was a podcast that helped you in your first year of your country, that's a really good idea. Okay, okay, one more, one more. Can you think of anything else that I'm missing? Because I I was so focused on blogs for like a year that I really, really didn't think of anything else. And then I realized I was cutting off an entire generation of people that didn't really blog. And I was like, wait, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Movies, maybe? Instead of movies, series seem to be the popular thing at the moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

Yeah. Ooh, these are good. You're mini producer. Done.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:48

We've got a deal.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:50

Well, Carl, I can't thank you enough for coming on here and sharing all of this with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

No problem, Steph. Thank you very much for having me on. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:04

Again, I welcome and encourage guests on this podcast. So please do contact me if you have a first-year experience that you'd like to reflect on in your current day state. You don't have to currently still be living in the same place. There does need to be some time distance between when you experienced that country and that first year experience and where you are now. Doesn't need to be as long as my my 13 or 14 years is from this experience, but there does need to be some time after the first year ended. Contact me for more details. I would love to hash that out with you and have you be a guest on this podcast. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Expat Rewind or coming your way soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:52

When I clock out of the hospital at 6 p.m., I'm not done for the night. That's when gamer nurse 40 clocks in and she's got orcs to slay. Sure, I'm playing a 13-year-old in Scranton, but he's a level 53 mage with a filthy mouth. So I need to stay on top of my game. What'd you call me? That's when I crack open a Heineken Zero Zero. Zero alcohol, but just as refreshing. So I can focus on stealing his gold before his mom tells him it's bedtime. Take that, kids. Heineken 00, 0.0% alcohol. Now you can. Must be 21 plus to purchase. Enjoy responsibly.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

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