Becoming American together: immigrant parent stories: S11E3

Have you ever wondered why your immigrant parent(s) didn't prepare you for being a global citizen? 

Chelsea thought this when she was struggling in her first expat place. Over time she began to understand the distinct difference between her mother's immigrant experience and her expat one. In this conversation, we unpack the lasting impression that Chelsea's mom had on her expat life and which influences she kept and discarded. 

Original publication date: August 27, 2022

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Transcript

Steph:

Welcome to another episode of Geopats. This is Steph Fuccio, and I am here with you to take you around the world and explore culture and as different and unique ways as we can. And this is the second of four episodes that we have in this micro season where we're talking to expats who came from households where there was one or more immigrants raising them in that environment. And last episode, we talked with Allison Maczewski, who is currently in Mexico. And we're flying all the way over to Thailand for this conversation today to talk to Chelsea. Chelsea grew up with an American father and a German mother in the south of the US and she ended up in China, which is where I met her. And she has moved on since then. Some of the things that we talk about are things like, did she feel different? Did Chelsea feel different as a kid because of her mother's otherness? Did she grow up learning German? Learning and speaking German? She now has a baby girl and thoughts on raising her own child in a country outside of her passport country and so much more. I can't believe how much we actually covered in in such a short time. So without further ado, let's dive in and listen to the conversation with Chelsea. Oh, my gosh. Chelsea, I am so excited that you are here to talk about expats and growing up with immigrant parents and whatever connection we're going to deem or conclude from all of this stuff. Thank you so much for being here today.

Alison:

It's a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Seth. Yay.

Steph:

Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, let's start out with where you are now because this is so exciting. So where are you located in your expat right now?

Alison:

Oh, right now I'm in Bangkok, Thailand. When we just arrived about six weeks ago. So coming from Shanghai, China.

Steph:

Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Okay. And six weeks, wow. How was that transition during what I think is still called a pandemic? Or are we an endemic? I don't know, whatever state we're in right now with this thing.

Alison:

Oh, I think the transition has been a welcome one. Due to the pandemic, China has locked its borders. And so to get out of China and to be able to re enter is almost impossible. The problem with that is, is that a lot of expats who decided to kind of weather the storm in China. You know, we're now going on three years of not being able to visit family and friends outside of the country. So for me, this move to Bangkok has. It's almost as though I feel Like I've gotten out of jail, Steph. You know, I just felt trapped. There's a feeling of just feeling locked into a place for sure. And that's a little bit hard. But Bangkok and coming here has been, you know, it's a freeing experience. I know that I'm going to be able to go home and visit my family in the summertime. There's also been kind of a negative element to the move because now I'm entering a space where children around me are getting Covid. And in China, this wasn't a thing. I don't think I even met anybody in the two and a half years that I was locked in China with COVID I never met anyone.

Steph:

Right.

Alison:

So that's the negative side because they're.

Steph:

They still have a policy of COVID zero. Right. Which is as soon as an outbreak happens, they shut stuff down and people are not dealt with. That sounds really bad, but I mean, people like, it's dealt with instantly and they kind of, they track and just control the pandemic, if that's the right way to say it.

Alison:

Yes. They're very much on, you know, they want zero population to have Covid in their country, which has been wonderful when you're doing your day to day to not have to think so much about that, especially with a young child. So, yeah, the move to Bangkok for my family has been a bit of a wake up call. Like, okay, this is what the world has been dealing with for the last couple of years.

Steph:

Yeah, I'm sorry that you're experiencing that now, but I think we're near the end, so you may have missed the worst of it, which is kind of nice. So, yeah, it sounds like it's kind of bittersweet. There's an opening up and a freedom that comes with the move. And then there's also a. Oh my gosh, there is the pandemic outside of that area. Yeah. Wow, that's a lot. That's a lot to deal with. And so what prompted the move over to Bangkok?

Alison:

What prompted the move to Bangkok was a job opportunity opening up. I was kind of on the precipice of like, either I'm just going home and I'm just going to sit and wait and figure out what my next step is, or I'm going to try to find a. I was continuously looking for a job and this opportunity at an international school here in Bangkok opened up and it's a three year contract. And for me it just screams stability.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison:

You know, something that I've been Missing for the last couple of years. So we jumped on top of the opportunity to come here.

Steph:

Three years sounds beautiful. Right now. We've been moving every three months and it's been a bit much. So three years sounds gorgeous. And you keep saying we. So can you fill us in on what that means?

Alison:

Oh, we. So I have a wee week one now. She is 18 months. She's 18 months. I am a pandemic mommy. A pandemic baby. And it's been a really beautiful experience. And I'm also here with my husband as a newlywed. We've been married for a little bit over six weeks. Thank you.

Steph:

Oh, wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow. So there's a lot of changes that have happened recently for you?

Alison:

Yes.

Steph:

Oh, my gosh. Wow. Okay, well, I'm playing kind of stupid because it's always the most awkward when I interview people. I know I knew this, but they don't. So let's pretend. Let's not pretend. So when did we met in. What was it? 2009 in Nanjing, China?

Alison:

2011.

Steph:

2011, okay.

Alison:

Yeah.

Steph:

Oh, that's right, 2009. I was still in Malaysia. You think I would know my own chronology? So we left. We met in 2011 in Nanjing, China, and we were both working at a government school that was teaching.

Alison:

It was like the IELTS curriculum. And I didn't even know it was a government school until you just said that, Stephanie. I thought it was private the whole time.

Steph:

Well, it was like Jiangsu Province, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I always assumed that the words meant that. But you know what? I never actually looked into it. But regardless of if it was private or government or what have you, we were teaching post high school kids who wanted to go study an English speaking university system somewhere in the world, basically. Yeah, like communication skills, ielts, so they could get a certain score to get accepted and different academic skills and blah, blah, blah. It was a lot of different things happening there. And yes, we met way back then. That's over 10 years ago. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. So was that your first expat place?

Alison:

Yes, that was my first expat place. I graduated from university and in December of 2010, and I was working as a waitress, which I had done throughout my university life. And yeah, I was like cleaning a stove. And I was just thinking to myself, I really don't want to do this forever. What? And I think through my childhood of having the experience, experience of traveling abroad to another country. I had always kind of had in the back of my mind this knowledge of being able to go to another country to teach English. And so I just kind of started looking online. And at that time, jobs were, you know, just a dime a dozen in China, and decided to come over in September of 2011.

Steph:

Wow. Had you known anyone who had done something similar or had worked abroad at all or anything like that?

Alison:

I knew a young lady, actually. I was still in university, and I'd actually brought up this topic to her, and then she ended up making the decision to go to Korea, but we didn't really talk a lot during that time. So, I mean, I knew she had went, but, you know, I didn't know anything about her experience or anything like that, so.

Steph:

Right, right, right. Okay. So mostly it sounds like it was out of restlessness, like you wanted more than what you were doing.

Alison:

I think also stuff that I just knew that I didn't want to work in a kitchen and I didn't want a desk job. Like, I just was not ready for those things that I thought, like, that's what adult life is after you graduate. And I thought, no, not for me. And I also had been trying to, like, grapple with, like, what was my career path going to be. I graduated with a history degree. I knew I wanted to teach at the collegiate level, which is why I didn't get a teaching certificate to teach, like, K through 12. Like, I did some observations, and I thought, no, that's not for me. But I chose to. I kind of followed that path to go abroad and teach because I thought, okay, Chelsea, if you want to be a teacher, you should probably go and see if, like, do you like that?

Steph:

What Practical.

Alison:

So that was also a reason why I decided to go.

Steph:

Well, it sounds like a wise decision. It sounds like you stuck with it. I mean, a lot of people go on their first expat experience, and within six, nine, even the first, you know, year, like six or nine months, or even the first year, they return and say, that's okay. That's not for me. But from 2011 to 2022 and going, you're still there. Well, it sounds like it's worked out really well. You've been overseas since 2011 and you're still there. Do you think you'll stay outside of the US For a long time?

Alison:

You know, I was just talking to my husband about that, where now that we're here in Bangkok, I feel a sense of. I just feel very happy, and I think more happy than I have ever felt while in China. I think it has a lot to do with not being in the China Bubble which comes with its own challenges. I'm not in that space anymore. I'm in a place that's very open. And over the years, I've also realized that I've kind of become what is known as like an economic refugee. I'm staying out of the United States because I know how difficult it is to survive financially in that system. And I just can't imagine spending my whole life working three or four jobs and not ever being able to, like, actually, like, live my life. And that's something that I grown. You know, it's just very important to me to be able to work hard, but then to also have enough time to be free and to enjoy the fruits of my labor. And I went back to the United States actually in the middle of this 11 years, and I experienced how difficult it is to just survive. And I'm working at a university. I was at a teaching English at a university, and I still barely made enough to be able to buy my plane ticket back out of the country. Like, you know, and it was just a very clear moment for me. Like, I cannot live and survive in America because I'll never be able to be financially comfortable the way I am while living abroad.

Steph:

That's a really important point. And for me, I actually started out living overseas out of curiosity, cultural curiosity. And each time I went back for however short or long a period of time, it shifted a little bit more towards that economic thing. And then during the pandemic, between how things were handled, the health care system and now the inflation, I feel like for the first time, I feel like I'm in that economic refugee part where I'm like. Like, I can't even go back now. I can't reestablish myself in a place where everybody's working from home, in the jobs I would do where people are working from home. And you really do want healthcare immediately. If going into a place that, you know, still having Covid outbreaks and then the rent prices are just insane. And I'm like, no, even if I wanted to, this is not an option anymore. It's just kind of crazy. And the woke culture of like one job is 20 jobs, but we're going to pretend like it, one person can do it is just. It was annoying to me 20 years ago, and it's even more annoying now. And I just, yeah, that work life balance that doesn't exist in the US is really shocking. When you leave and come back, it's like, what is happening?

Alison:

I totally agree.

Steph:

Yeah, it should not be okay. Well, let's go backwards, actually. Let's do a time snap. Were both of your parents immigrants to the US or one of them?

Alison:

My mother is from Aachen, Germany. Was from Aachen, Germany. My father's from the United States. A military soldier. Ex military soldier.

Steph:

Oh, okay. Can I ask how they met? Because that sounds like it might be an interesting story.

Alison:

Oh. From what I know, my dad and two of my uncles were stationed in Germany. Yeah. And I think they were at the club at some disco. I know my mother in Germany, they always call them the disco. Yeah, disco. And I think they just met there. And mom said the song that they first danced to was Billie Jean by Michael Jackson.

Steph:

No.

Alison:

I guess it was. Yeah. Started from there. Yeah.

Steph:

Did you spend any of your childhood in Germany, or were you born and raised only in the U.S. i was.

Alison:

Born and raised in the U.S. we traveled there, but we didn't live there.

Steph:

Like growing up with an immigrant parent, and that word has such a weird stigma to it. And I mean it as a descriptor of someone who's not from that culture, not as whatever dirty baggage people put on the word immigrant, because I think that's a load of bullshit. But so I say that out of respect, because it's hard to do that. But with an immigrant parent, did you ever feel. Did you ever feel like you saw things differently than other kids did?

Alison:

I think when it came to, like, understanding that there's a whole world outside of my little town of Clarksville, Tennessee, I was very aware of that. Not only did we travel, like, every two years, we would travel to Germany for, like, a month. We'd stay there. I had that experience. But mom loved to travel, so we were constantly going to places outside of my hometown. And I think that perspective wasn't very common in the 90s. Right. I'm doing this in elementary school and things like that. And I think that experience wasn't seen too much, you know, by the kids around me. And I think that that just kind of provided me with a perspective, like, this is just one place in the world. Like, there's so many other things to see and do and taste. And so I think that's the experience that I think is different than the kids around me, but my mother was also very like, I'm going to become an American. Like, that was her. That was her perspective and her approach to her citizenship in the United States, so.

Steph:

Gotcha. Yeah, I think I messed that up earlier and said that your father is from Germany. Sorry, Your mother is from Germany and your father is from the U.S. right?

Alison:

Yes.

Steph:

Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I've got so many questions in my head that I'm starting to garble people bad. Oh, interesting. Okay. So did you grow up speaking German at all with your mom?

Alison:

My mother was very, like. She was wanting all of us. Like, I understand this now, but. And I had a cousin in Germany tell me this. Like, mom wanted what was known as the American dream. And, like, she was like, I'm going to. What's that word? Acclimate towards. Is that it?

Steph:

Yes. Yeah, I think so.

Alison:

To the society around her and, like, kind of leave her German roots. Like, they're there, but they're like, okay, I'm not gonna really put that on my children as something that they need to, like, be invested in and things like that. And I think my brother also. She used to speak German to him while explaining homework and things like that, and he was confused. And I think that that's when she also made a decision that maybe she should just stick to speaking one language in the house and she chose English.

Steph:

Yeah. I'm so relieved you said that, because I grew up with two Italian parents who spoke Italian to each other, and then my mom spoke Albanian to her family because that's where their heritage is from. And I grew up with nothing other than a few curse words and my siblings as well. And everybody always asked me, but I don't understand how that's possible. And I'm like, I do. Because they really wanted us not to deal with the shit. They had to, to be honest. They were really. Parents came over during a wave of Italian immigration, and they were treated like absolute crap. And they were like, my. Our kids are not going to go through that. And I'm guessing that was their reason for it. I do kind of wish they had pushed a little bit, but. But nah, you know, I mean, we had a good life. So not. I'm not complaining, but, yeah, I think it's interesting how some parents are very adamant that their kids will grow up speaking the other languages in the family. And some parents are like, nah, we're gonna be as American as we can in this situation. Yeah, it's very, very interesting. So.

Alison:

And I want to say, probably the ones who are coming in the 70s and 80s, I'm going to say that there was a huge push to not speak your native language. To assimilate. That's the word I was looking for. To assimilate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the 70s and 80s.

Steph:

For sure. For sure. I think when folks come with the current wave Then the locals get like, super protective. Well, you're gonna overtake the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, people. It's a mixed bag here. Folks are there here. I don't even know where I am right now. Well, let's connect the two because the whole reason I'm doing this micro season of immigrant kids who turn into expat adults is because I feel like there's some sort of connection. And I'm not sure what that is yet. But have you, I don't know, have you met many expat adults who also grew up with an immigrant parent or parents in your expat travels experiences?

Alison:

I've met a few, but I wouldn't say that they're sort of like an anomaly. When I meet another one, I'm like, oh, okay. Well, yeah, that's interesting. And most of the time when I meet them, I meet people who have two parents who are not, you know, born in the United States. So very rarely do I meet just like one. But I would have to say, like, my situation I think is a little bit unique because, I mean, I'm from a military family, so I again, like, I haven't met a lot of military, you know, families or expats who have been military affiliated. Yeah. So great.

Steph:

Me neither. Oh, that's two really interesting points right there. One is that the expat adults that you're meeting who grew up with immigrant parents, it's usually both parents. I hadn't thought about that. But that's my experience as well in meeting other expats, adults who grew up as immigrant kids and also having your military background. Because the military kids who grew up that I've met tend to want to stop moving around.

Alison:

Yes, exactly. Stop moving around. Or they're joining the military. So the country is not an option, you know.

Steph:

Exactly, exactly. Or if they do, they're in those like military based kind of communities and we don't interact with them too terribly much. Oh, those are really intensely interesting points. Wow. Well, do you think that growing up with an immigrant's viewpoint in the household has helped you as an expat in any way?

Alison:

For me, I think that it kind of gave me the courage to be able to take the step in order to move abroad and just kind of experience it? I mean, I've always had in the back of my mind that, wow, my mother is from a completely different country and has come and live in another country. But I didn't really understand, like the weight of that until I moved abroad. It didn't really understand Whoa. That is a huge thing. Yeah. I didn't understand it. And, yeah, through my experience, I'm definitely. There's a lot of respect for my mother that I probably didn't have because she was struggling, you know, to survive in a new country and a new language. Mom didn't speak any English when she came to the United States, so.

Steph:

Yeah. Wow, that's difficult. That's so beautiful how you said that Chelsea was so beautiful. The weight of it. Oh, wow.

Alison:

Yeah.

Steph:

Because the thing is, as expats. And yes, I'm not addressing the elephant in the room of the difference between expats and immigrants, because that discussion has been so discussed over and over and over, but there can be a difference in the ability to leave or the choice to leave or stay or stay for the three years, like you might be doing in Thailand, versus an immigrant that might know I'm moving here and staying here. And can you explain the weight of that? That was such beautiful. I want to dig into that. What does that weight consist of? Can we unpack that?

Alison:

I think when I look at my mom's experience, I think about, like, you just said, like, I know that I can move back home. Like, I'm an expat. I'm not an immigrant. Like, I'm never going to become a Thai citizen. Like, that' just not anything that I'm interested in. But mom coming to the United States and saying, like, I'm going to live here and work here and raise my family here, and I'm giving up my own nationality to become another nationality. Like, that's a lot like, to leave your country knowing that that's the goal. That's the weight right there. That's the weight. Leaving family, leaving everything that, you know for this unknown. Yeah, it's very, very strong woman.

Steph:

Yes. Incredibly strong. I mean, when we get homesick, we can, like, go back for a bit or we can have stuff shipped to us, or there's so many modern conveniences, or with the Internet, I can just go watch a TV show that reminds me of California for a bit. And then I'm like, yeah, never mind. I'm good. And I'm over it. But with immigrants in the 80s, an.

Alison:

Immigrant in the 80s talking about even existing.

Steph:

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's a much firmer commitment, a much deeper. Like, how in the world. I never thought about this, but how did they deal with homesickness pre Internet?

Alison:

I would have to say one thing that I think that my mother used. She used to cook German food. And I think that that was a great way for her to kind of. It was a great way for her to acknowledge that there's homesickness. But I'm gonna cook this delicious food and that's gonna make me happy. Yeah. Something I saw often.

Steph:

Yeah, yeah. Did you learn to cook any of those foods?

Alison:

Yeah, I learned how to cook like schnitzel and jager sauce and, you know, crocodile and cucumber salad and goulash and all of these things. And I actually worked at a German restaurant during my college years up there as well, so.

Steph:

That's awesome. I got obsessed with schnitzel when we were in Germany in 2020. Yeah, it's just a cutlet by a different name, but it's not just a cutlet by a different name. It's yummy.

Alison:

Really good. Especially if the sauce is prepared well, you know.

Steph:

Very true, very true. Well, and you're going to be, at least for a few years, possibly longer, raising a third culture kid in Thailand. Is there anything you're going to do with your daughter to instill her American ness or are you going to just be where you are and see what happens with what she clings to culturally or just socially?

Alison:

Yeah, whatever she clings to culturally and socially is fine for me. Her father is from Cameroon, Africa, French speaking country. So we're in the process of thinking about like, yeah, we should probably be teaching her French. You know, she's not talking yet except for she's saying no, which she says that very well culturally and socially. We just want her to cling to whatever one that, you know, whatever culture she wants to and to take the bits out of it that make her happy. Even as a child. Born in China, raised for a year and a half in China and then coming to Thailand and I'll be here for three years. Like whatever wonderful things she takes from Thai society and the culture, you know, more power to her. I think it will help her to be more well rounded and to have a better communication with, you know, just a diverse group of people, which is really important. Yeah, it's really important to me for her to be able to communicate with the world around her that may or may not look like her. I think that's important.

Steph:

That's beautiful. That is beautiful. Let's backtrack one more second back to the connection between your ex pat ness now and your mom's immigrant experience. I asked you very optimistically, which part of your mom's immigrant lens may have helped you as an expat? Is there any awareness of the struggles that your mom went through as an immigrant that made it harder for you to be an expat.

Alison:

That I had, like, a kind of a difficult time when I first got to China. And I think it was because I think my mother raised us with the idea that, like, we were never going to grow up and be out in the world. And I don't even think she could have even imagined for me to, like, move to Nanjing, China. Right? Yeah, right. When I got to Nanjing, I felt very unprepared emotionally, academically, like, culturally. Like, it was just a whirlwind of culture shock. You know, I had traveled abroad and things like that. Like, I just didn't feel like she had prepared me for the. For that experience. And it was like, well, how could you have not done that? Like, you live that, you know? And so there was a time period where we would talk and I would just be like, well, why didn't you do this and why didn't you do that? And why didn't you prepare me to be able to survive as an adult, like, not just in Clarksville, Tennessee, but, like, to survive in the world? And I think through my experience and kind of like trying to get out of my, like, you know, self pity, I realized that there was nothing that, like, she can't teach me that you have to live it, you have to experience it. You have to go to another country and commit to living there for one year and to go through all of the emotions and the trials and the fun, great things that happen, you know, while you're taking your journey as an expat. And maybe, maybe through that experience, I was able to gain, like, an appreciation for the fact of how difficult it is not an easy thing to live in another country. So for me, I think that was the main thing. I just felt like I wasn't as prepared as I saw other people around me were very prepared. You know, I thought, thought, wow, like, that. We had a young girl in Nanjing, Ella, who she was like 18 years old, and her parents, like, I think she was 17. She had her 18th birthday at like, you know, in Nanjing with us. And like, her parents just shipped her off to China to have them go to school for a year. And it was like she was doing her gap year. And like, I met so many students doing gap years from universities who were traveling from America. And I thought, thought, where was all of this type of, like, stuff when I was in high school and college? Like, I never even knew this type of life existed.

Steph:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God, we have so much in common in everything you just said. There's so much overlap in our experiences. And I'm thinking, as you're saying all of this, that maybe there's a bit of protection in our immigrant parents who. They know how hard the struggle is. And so why would they want to prepare you for something they don't want you to do? Because it's so hard. I don't know. I just had that flash where I was like, why wouldn't my parents, who lived in multiple places and had to, like, do that immigrant deep dive, super struggle? Why wouldn't they, like, prune me to be more of a global citizen?

Alison:

Because they didn't.

Steph:

They were very, very, we're here. This is where we are. This is what we're going to be. This is how you live here. And I was always curious because, like, you, we would go to Italy for, like, summer vacation a few times in my young life. And so leaving the US As a child and having that perspective and then coming back, I was like, I want more. But there wasn't really an opportunity or skill set to know how to get more. Yeah. So I wonder if there's a protection moment in there. I don't know. I don't know. I want to think positively about, but I'm not sure. I think. I think it's hard. I think it's hard. You know this better than me. It's hard to raise kids. No matter what you do, something's missing. I think we've teased out a few things that might have connected from your mom's immigrant experience and viewpoint and impressions on you and how that impacted your expat experiences in China and now in Thailand. And I think that that's amazing. And I'm going to ruminate on some of the things you said, because there's some gems, Some gems in there.

Alison:

So wanted to say one more thing about how I realized it was like, everything kind of came full circle to me when I had my mother come to China to visit me, and when she came to China to visit me, and I realized she was there for a little bit of time, too. When she was there and she was asking me questions about the culture and she was asking me, you know, she didn't understand anything that was going on. And I'm speaking like, my Chinese is not great, but it's enough to, like, get what we need to get done. I realized her looking at me, like, and saying, like, wow, you really become, like, part of the culture. Like, you're speaking the language like that people in your community, like, wave to you. Like, they actually know, like, who you are and things like that. And I think for me, one thing that I realized in that moment was how difficult. Not just how difficult, but, like, my mom was in that part of her life where she was trying to find her way. And that's what I experienced as a young girl, was my mother struggling to find her way. I remember my sister and I being telling her, like, why can't we do this? And why can't we go here? And why can't we do this? And my mother would tell us, like, we couldn't do certain things that everybody around us was able to do. And I realized in those moments when she was abroad, like, oh, she didn't know how to tell us. Yes. Because she was coming to the situation with, like, a completely different upbringing, a completely different way of looking at, like, no, why would I send you to the skating room with someone else's parents who are going to pay for you? Like, no. Like. Like, no. Like. And I never really understood that. And it was her coming to China and, like, asking the questions that she was asking, where I kind of started thinking, like. Like, you didn't really understand American culture when we were younger. Now I see how me and my mother used to butt heads a lot because I used to push back against her and be like, why can't we do what everybody else is doing? You know? And. Yeah, so I just wanted to mention that because that was, like, such a big moment for me in my life where I realized, wow, I was actually witnessing my mother learning how to survive and live and, you know, acclimate towards America. Like, I actually witnessed her doing that. The struggle of that. Yeah.

Steph:

That's amazing. So in some sense, you were both learning how to be Americans at the same time, but with different chronological ages.

Alison:

Yes.

Steph:

Wow. I hadn't actually thought about that.

Alison:

Yeah, I think it really just kind of helped as I just kind of calmed down with my expat life. Like, oh, you know, you don't have to try to become Chinese tomorrow. Like, it takes time.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison:

I remember my sister and I think we were in, like, high school, and maybe I was in college. And I remember the first time my mother said, y'.

Steph:

All.

Alison:

Right. It's a very Southern term, y'. All.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison:

When we were kids, Steph mom would get onto us so much when we spoke bad English. Like, I think that's when English. Now, my pronunciation is great, they say, but I remember my sister and I whipping our head around and being like, you can't say that. You know, my mother used to get so upset, you know, when we said it. And that was the moment when me and my sister, I think we both realized, like, she's American now. Oh, wow. And this was 25 years later.

Steph:

Yeah.

Alison:

Yeah. I never heard it until I moved to China and came back. And I was like, you do have an accent. Okay. Because she used to just sound like mom. You know, I never really noticed it. And I would have my friends call the house and they would say, wow, your mom, like, where is she from? Like, she doesn't speak. Like, she's from here. I'm like, oh, she's German. She has such a different accent. I was like, really? I was like, oh, yeah, she does. Okay. So she always had it, but it wasn't like, you know, pronounced or anything.

Steph:

In my personal ditto. Yeah, my dad moved when he was 12, so to me, he didn't sound like he had very, very casual, conversational Italian. So I didn't hear his Italian accent, but everybody else did. And I was like, no, come on. So if something that you said resonates with folks, which I'm guessing it will, is there any place online they can connect or leave comments for you or anything like that?

Alison:

Oh, my gosh. I am not a social media person. I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram at Chelsea Roxanne Coles, which is my full name, because I am not creative enough to come up with a good book, you know, so you can find me by my name. You can also follow me on LinkedIn, YouTube. I have a couple of teaching videos. If you're interested in, you know, teaching abroad or looking for ideas and topics and things, you can find a couple of videos on YouTube.

Steph:

It's true. I checked out her YouTube channel and there are are a handful of really cute videos from her time in the classroom teaching English in China. When Chelsea said that she realized that her mother and her were learning to be American at the same time, goosebumps went up and down my spine. I literally had never thought about it until that very moment. And I hope that you enjoyed this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it with 2 Chelsea. And if that is true, if you did enjoy it, please leave us a message anywhere online, whether it be Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter. Steph Fuccio is my handle in all those places. It's S T E P H F U C C I O. Additionally, we have a YouTube channel, so you can leave a message there as well, because YouTube, unlike podcast apps, has a message area. Next week, we'll be going back to China to talk to George, who grew up in Canada and then went over to China and was there during the most recent lockdown in 2022. And he shares his experience with his Greek parents growing up in Canada and then moving abroad to Asia. Come back for the next episode of Geopaths. Thank you so much. Bye Bye. Sa.