Future of Health & Wellness Coaching (NBHWC Executive Director Leigh-Ann Webster)

Did you know that in 2016, you and I could be visiting over a cup of coffee and decide we wanted to be health & wellness coaches... then walk out the door and start calling ourselves a health & wellness coach? Or – a wellness company could hire nice people, put them in a call center with a script and then tell employers they offered health & wellness coaching. There were no standards. That all changed in 2017.

Welcome to the latest episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness & Performance Coaching Podcast - today’s guest is Leigh-Ann Webster, the Executive Director of the National Board for Health & Wellness Coaching, or NBHWC, which brought standards of practice, a code of ethics and more to the world of health & wellness coaching. She is the only person in our 180 episode history to join us on 3 separate occasions. Yes – she – and the timely insights she has to share are that important.

For more information about the Catalyst Community, earning your health & wellness coaching certification, the annual Rocky Mountain Coaching Retreat & Symposium and much more, please see https://www.catalystcoachinginstitute.com/ or reach out to us Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com

For more information about the National Board for Health & Wellness Coaching (NBHWC), please see NBHWC.org

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 If you are a current or future health & wellness coach, please check out our Health & Wellness Coaching Forum Group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/278207545599218.  This is an awesome group if you are looking for encouragement, ideas, resources and more!

 Finally, if you enjoy the Catalyst Podcast, you might also enjoy the YouTube Coaching Channel, which provides a full library of freely available videos covering health, wellness & performance: https://www.youtube.com/c/CoachingChannel

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If you are a current or future health & wellness coach, please check out our Health & Wellness Coaching Community on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/278207545599218. This is a wonderful group if you are looking for encouragement, ideas, resources and more.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Did you know that in 2016, you and I could be visiting over a cup of coffee and you could say, Hey coop, we should be health and wellness coaches. And then we could simply give each other high five, the high five wasn't required either by the way, walk out the door and start calling ourselves a health and wellness coach or a wellness company could hire nice people, put them in a call center with a script and then tell employers they offered health and wellness coaching. There were no standards that all changed in 2017. Welcome to the latest episode of the catalyst, health, wellness, and performance coaching podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Bradford Cooper of the catalyst coaching Institute. And today's guest is Leanne Webster, the executive director of the national board for health and wellness coaching or in B HWC, which brought standards of practice, a code of ethics and more to the world of health and wellness coaching. She is the only person in our 180 plus episode history to join us on three separate occasions. Yes, she, and the timely insights she has to share are that important. If you're looking to pursue the MBA, CWC approved catalyst coaching Institute, health and wellness coach certification, you just missed our August training, but you still have one more chance. This year, our October program both puts you on track to meet the MBH Debussy deadline. If that's the route you're planning to go willing and you can beat the registration costs increase that's happening later this year, you can find all the details@catalystcoachinginstitute.com or reach out to us. Anytime we'll set up some time to talk. The email is results@catalystcoachinginstitute.com. Happy to chat about any of the questions you have about how it fits with your career. What the process is, all those kinds of things. Now let's pull back the curtain on all things coaching with MBH WC executive director, LeeAnne Webster on the latest episode of the catalyst, health, wellness, and performance coaching podcast. All right, well, Lee Ann Webster, our very first three time guest in our hundred and 80 episode streak here. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Thank you so much, Brad. I'm really happy to be here with you. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:58

Now we'll, we'll try to kind of mix and match you. You've been out here twice. We haven't had huge changes since the, the CBC kicked in. So we want to do some review and then some what's the latest type thing. Why don't we set the stage? Why was it important initially to establish the national board for the exam process and the national board for health and wellness coaching in the first place?

Speaker 2: 2:20

So if you look back to the beginning of the industry, um, which would have been the early two thousands, uh, the industry was really growing, but there were no training and education standards in place. So essentially anybody could call themselves a health and wellness coach and they still can, but now we have a way to differentiate right between training and no training. Um, so I think it was just really important to establish training and education standards so that the industry can grow in the right way. And so that people who become health and wellness coaches can actually obtain jobs, obtain respect, not just with the public, but also in healthcare with physicians and nurses and, you know, allied health professionals. Um, and also we, we really needed schools to, you know, come on board and to support training and education standards. So,

Speaker 1: 3:21

Yeah, and it's so important. We have emphasized that over and over and it's, we're so happy that you guys have done this. What's been the response to the national board certification by coaches. And then I want to ask you about the public too, but first of all, from coaches, what, what are you hearing has that changed since 2017? What what's going on out there on the coaching front?

Speaker 2: 3:40

So I would say with coaches, we're, we're definitely gaining momentum. Um, we, we still have a lot of outreach to do on our end because you know, we're doing something that's never been done before, and that takes a lot of fun funding essentially. Right. And, and you need that funding to have the outreach. So we definitely still need to put more time and effort into outreach because if I'm being completely honest, um, on a daily basis, I'll receive an email or a Facebook message from a coach who says, I didn't know this existed,

Speaker 1: 4:14

You know, still today. Oh

Speaker 2: 4:16

Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. And so I would say when people learn that we exist, they are very excited and very supportive and passionate and they want to come on board. Um, it is a process though, for some coaches, because there are some coaches who, you know, have identified as a health and wellness coach, but have no training. So they have to start and build from there. Um, but I would say overall, um, the community is very excited about the fact that there are training and education standards. And I also think it's really led to more confidence in the coach.

Speaker 1: 4:52

No question zero. I love that last statement. There's we see that constantly. So let's step back to the coaches for a second. What about the person who they really don't know what they're doing, frankly, I'm going to step on some toes here, but they're really good at social media and they are just nailing it. And they're like, oh, I'm coach bread. And I'm out here doing this stuff. And, and, and you're looking at going to, like, you don't have, you don't even know what intrinsic motivation is. You never heard of motivational interviewing what, how, and yet they're making good money. They're doing their thing. People love them. They're calling them, coach Brad, or coach Jane or whatever. Are you getting pushback from those people saying, you guys are jerks. You're messing me up. Like, like what, what are you hearing from that group?

Speaker 2: 5:36

I don't really hear that. Like, I don't really hear that we're messing them up, but they not, they may not necessarily be fully supportive of going in the direction of becoming board certified. Um, I think that that's a challenge for us. Yeah. It's always going to be a challenge for us if there's not licensure, right. Licensure happens state by state. And I can't really say that we're going in that direction of licensure, but I think that what is happening is I see a lot of, um, employers who are now requiring or requesting the board certification. So I think we have to look at well, how will employers react? How will insurance companies react in the future? And, and maybe it will take care of itself. But I think we're always going to have those outliers who are very successful on social media. And, and frankly, I see it as my role to actually be from them and, and support them in, in, uh, a positive way while also educating them about, Hey, look, this is also what's happening over here and you might want to consider it right.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Well, and maybe it's an interesting short term and longterm form. It, maybe they can stay successful for the next two or three years, but they probably can't five years from now. They probably can't 10 years from now. So if they're seeing this as just a flash in the pan, we're going to be done, I'm moving on to something else later, I'm going to law school and we want to put physical therapy school of med school or whatever. But if they're looking at this for five plus years, I don't know, I don't see it working because you're right. We do not even talk to coaches to join us corporate wellness, unless they're nationally board certified. So I think the employers, hopefully everyone's doing that and we can move that in that direction. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:24

And it's also comes down to more outreach on our part. And it's, you know, it's not just outreach to employers, but it's also outreach to human resource leaders because they're often the ones who are kind of navigating this within their, um, business in place in employment.

Speaker 1: 7:42

And are you talking HR directors for companies like us corporate wellness or companies like a Joe's bait shop that wants to start a wellness program and is looking for a nationally board certified coach? Or

Speaker 2: 7:55

I would say more like the Googles, the apples, right? Like some of the larger organizations that are starting to bring health and wellness coaches on staff or starting to really make wellness a priority for their employees. So, so on a little bit of a larger scale, because I think if we can reach the masses, right? So the larger companies that eventually it's going to trickle down to more knowledge for the smaller company

Speaker 1: 8:20

And you're thinking Google is not starting a bait shop.

Speaker 2: 8:25

Well, if they do, then there probably be some very successful fishermen here

Speaker 1: 8:29

Probably will be, yes, our daughter-in-law works for Google. So we'll, I'll check out that possibility. So how about the public you've, you've talked kind of about the public with employers. Is there another category over there that I'm missing in terms of what people are saying, or maybe future health and wellness coaches that are hearing about this? Or where does that take?

Speaker 2: 8:48

So when I refer to the public eye, I'm referring to anybody who would hire a health and wellness coach. So one of the, one of the things that we've seen, um, in terms of our demographics with our coaching community of 5,000 national board certified health and wellness coaches, is that there's about 50% who are employed, but there's a whole other 50% who are entrepreneurial, right. And, and who want to work with the public. And so I believe that we have to continue to have a big job in front of us, which is to educate the millions and millions of people, um, particularly here in the United States, that there is now a training and education standard for the field. And that, that, um, that education training and assessment is, is demonstrated or shown through obtaining the board certification. Right. So I think we have to just educate people that this credential matters and it exists in the first place and you need to be watching for it. So, um, you know, the media is a big, big help in that, right? So the more outreach I do with media, the more articles get published. And the more the NBC HWC credential is mentioned, and then people say, oh, okay. So went back. There was a, uh, I don't know if you saw this this morning, but, um, we have a coach who's board certified who, uh, just, uh, got a, um, it's going to be a column in Forbes. And so it's all about health coaching and, um, you know, she cites the board certification and, you know, that'll, that'll really help educate people outside of our tight community. Right.

Speaker 1: 10:32

Excellent. Uh, you mentioned, especially here in the U S so that sparked a thought what's going on internationally. I know there's groups like the UK health coaches. Are there other groups that y'all are kind of integrating with, or are you saying, wait a minute, let's kind of figure out the us, and then we'll pirate nurse it simultaneous what's going on with that.

Speaker 2: 10:54

It's simultaneously it's happening simultaneously for sure. Um, there are definitely a lot of, I'd say governmental leaders in other countries or health coach organizations in other countries who are reaching out to us for guidance. And so I regularly meet with, um, people from other countries. So not necessarily the coaches though. We have coaches from over 30 countries who are now board certified. Um, but I'm talking about like some of the leaders in the field with healthcare organizations, um, hospital systems, or even in some cases, some cases, government, um, just talking with them. Uh, so we have a lot going on in south America right now. In fact, a few months ago I talked, um, for, it was a support symposium in Brazil. Um, there's a lot going on in Mexico. Um, definitely Australia and New Zealand, the UK, um, Scotland and Ireland, Finland. So seeing it, seeing it everywhere, it's actually really fun. Oh, Arabic countries. Interesting. Very much so. Yeah. Um, so it's really fun. And one of our objectives is to kind of bring the world together. Um, if you look at our vision statement, it's a world where all people thrive. So, um, I'd like to start holding international forums so people can learn about some of the challenges that other people are facing in other countries or so that we can connect people in their respective countries, Canada.

Speaker 1: 12:37

Exactly. Hello. Uh, well, hopefully this will help because we've got a lot of listeners in Australia, Canada, Europe. So maybe that'll nudge that and we'll encourage folks to reach out to the NBA Chevy C for that. What has surprised you, what are some of the things that has surprised you about this move towards national certification that as you were getting ready to go into it, you're like, what are you kidding me? What's how did this what's going on here?

Speaker 2: 13:04

Oh man,

Speaker 1: 13:05

We can go as long as you want on this one.

Speaker 2: 13:09

Uh, I think the thing that is most surprising to me is how hard it is. It's just really hard. It's really hard to do something that's never been done before. I often think about like pioneers who were traveling west in wagons and I'll think God that's us, you know, cause it's like, we're coming onto new frontier. We have no idea, you know, what the next issue might be, um, could be from a coach or a program that you, you have no idea. There's just something, something every day that's new. Um, and I think also the workload, like just the workload for our board of directors and our staff and me, um, and just like how many details there are trying to do something that's never been done before. And I know you're a triathlete, I'm a triathlete. And I draw on that endurance on a daily basis just to keep going. Cause it's, it's just really, really hard. And I think also it's that the answers aren't always there. Right?

Speaker 1: 14:15

Well, it's the pioneer thing you talked about. It's new. It's not like, well, what's the, what's the manual say there's not a manual. You're creating the manual. We are the manual.

Speaker 2: 14:23

So a lot of times it's like, oh wow, okay. We need to bring together an ethics and legal committee. We need, we need a digital health committee. We need, you know, we gotta find the experts who can come together and make the right decisions. And so I find that to be somewhat challenging, right. Because, um, because you know, like you've got to find these people and then make sure that they're making the right decision and, and bringing it all forward. So that would be my,

Speaker 1: 14:51

That makes sense. Um, one of the things I think was genius and I don't know who's responsible for it, but to partner with the national board for medical examiners when we heard that at catalyst coaching. And so we're just like, yeah, this is perfect way to go. How did that come to be? Was there a debate about that? Was it a given, like walk us through that process and then what's it been like working with the NBME?

Speaker 2: 15:15

Sure. Um, so it all started actually, um, with the, I guess you could say a mutual friend, um, uh, it was someone who was consulting with them and consulting with us and he suggested that, um, uh, he actually, he founded, um, healthy kitchens, healthy lives. Um, I don't know if you're familiar with that. Um, it's a conference that happens at the culinary Institute and Napa, um, he, uh, Dr. David Eisenberg, um, he, uh, he, he, he said you guys need to meet. Um, and so we did, and our board started talking with their leadership team and, um, it was,

Speaker 1: 15:58

Well, let me pause this for a second because you and I are speaking up here and I should have introduced it better than national board for medical examiners, everybody. This is who we're utilizing or who the MBH WC is utilizing to, to process the exam, to, to hold the exam, to Proctor the exam, et cetera. And that's the same organization that does the licensure for physicians, for example. So with that, sorry to interrupt you, keep going.

Speaker 2: 16:21

No, and actually I'll add to that. So they board certified physicians. Right. And it's an organization that's been around for more than a hundred years. Yeah. And so, um, so anyway, we started talking, um, I, I believe it was about, um, oh a year ish of negotiations. And then we we've, you know, signed a memorandum of understanding. We like to say we got engaged, got married a couple years later. Um, we birthed the exam first before we got married, which was kind of interesting, but, um, yeah, you know, I actually really enjoy working with the NBME. Um, they have a team who helps, um, essentially, uh, process the applications and then, um, Proctor the exam. We Proctor it actually through Prometric, but the, you know, they're connected to them. Um, but also what I, what I really like about them is that they're experts in exam, um, creation and delivery. And then we have the subject matter experts on our side. Right. And so, and they've got an editorial team too, and then we have the item writers. And so, and for those who don't know what an item writer, it is, an, an item is a test question, right? So we have people who are subject matter experts, experts in the field of health and wellness coaching who, um, write test questions. And then those test questions go to the editorial team at the national board of medical examiners so that they are written in a way that's, uh, fair and, um, comprehensive and follows a certain standard regarding test writing. Right, right.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Yeah. So, yeah,

Speaker 2: 18:09

It's a good team. And, um, I work with them on a daily basis. Okay.

Speaker 1: 18:15

I just, I love the fact that you guys went that route. Um, what's the typical pass rate for the exam and kind of follow up to that. How do you see the exam evolving over time since it started, and then maybe over the next few years, so pass rate first, and then how's it going to change?

Speaker 2: 18:31

So of the people who have sat for the exam, we've delivered the exam seven times, um, between 78 to 82% of people who've sat for the exam have passed the exam.

Speaker 1: 18:44

And I think that's consistent with things like physical therapy, license exam, occupational therapy, nursing. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:50

Yeah. It's been pretty consistent. So we feel really good about that. Um, in terms of where the exam is headed in the future, as of right now, we're not planning to make any changes. Um, we have, you know, several different forms. So a form is the actual exam, right? Cause you can't, you can't be delivering the same form to, you know, every exam you would have the risk of

Speaker 1: 19:16

There's a problem there,

Speaker 2: 19:19

Um, which this is part of why NBME is so important, right? Because they really understand like how you create fair, equal forms. Um, so right now we're not planning to change anything, but you know, one of the things that we've talked about moving into the future, that if it's financially feasible would be, uh, some sort of live practical exam. That would be great. But, but, but for now, we're not doing anything, no changes are being made. Um, and that, that live practical assessment, which for anyone who might be a test taker, that's a live oral exam to test your coaching skills. Um, that is one of the requirements that we have for our approved training programs. So they actually deliver a practical skills assessment to their students before those students graduate, graduate, and then are eligible for our exam.

Speaker 1: 20:13

And it's so important. I know that's a big part of the catalyst exam and going through the rubric and all those kinds of things. But, um, without that, I mean, it's coaching, it's not, you're not in a lab. You're you're yeah. If that's not there you're, you're in trouble. So speaking to that, that log of 50 coaching sessions, this won't make sense to anybody, but the folks that are getting ready for the exam, but you've got to have 50 coaching sessions, some of the F and we have advice, we give our students, but what would you tell them in terms of how do I get 50 coaching sessions now it's a lot easier than it sounds, and I'll let you walk them through that. But what ideas do you have for the coaches listening to this? They're thinking about they saw that requirement and they're like, I don't know how I do that.

Speaker 2: 20:53

Yeah. It's actually not that hard. And I say this from experience. So just so everybody knows, I went through the well coach training program in 2007. Um, I also went through real balances program in 2018, just as my own personal refresher. Um, but back in 2007, in order to get the certificate that I wanted, even though the national board for health and wellness coaching didn't exist, I still wanted that cer certificate of completion. Um, I had to do a certain number of coaching sessions. And so what I did was reach out to all my family and friends and ask them, I created a message. So I had something written up and I said, you know, I'm looking for people that I don't know that I can work with, who would like to work with the health coach. And I sent that out to everyone I knew and asked them to send it out to people. They knew that didn't know me and I had a whole plate by the end of the day. So, um, many of those people ended up continuing to be my client for quite some time. And to this day, I don't think there's any one of them that I don't keep in touch with.

Speaker 1: 22:03

That's really cool. Yeah. And folks, it really is easy because there's also not 50 different people. It's 50 sessions that can be broken up into a number of different things. And, and for those of you who are listening to this, and you're saying, you know, Brad, you mentioned coaching once in a while, but this is kind of the first time taking a deep dive. It's amazing if you have a coach reach out to her, to you or a potential coach, try it because I think it'd be stunned by the outcome of not a five-hour conversation. 20, 30 minutes can really truly be life-changing. We, we do a coach to coach program within our company. And it's always fun to me when I talk to a coach, I should know this stuff like, and that's the thing, we know the stuff, but putting that into your life, that's a different question. That's a different approach. And that's where the coaching is so powerful. So, um, that, that's fine.

Speaker 2: 22:52

And I think also, you know, people say, why do I have to do this? This sounds so hard. But I say, you know, it actually is an art to have a deep conversation with somebody about their life and this personal stuff that they're experiencing. And you, as the coach have to get comfortable being in that space and essentially get comfortable being uncomfortable. Right. And it only happens if you practice. So we're actually doing you a favor because we're forcing you to practice before you sit for the exam.

Speaker 1: 23:27

Exactly. Exactly. All right. So billing insurance, I know the coaches out there going Pratt, ask that question, ask that question. Where are we at? So where are we at with the billing insurance as coaches? And I always tell people, be careful what you ask for, because those of us who come out of health care, you know, very well, it's not always the cat's Meow to be able to bill for insurance. But with that said, where are we at? How are things looking going forward?

Speaker 2: 23:52

Yeah. So, um, in 2019, um, we in partnership with the VA, the veterans administration, um, we're able to obtain category three CPT codes for health and wellness coaching. So, um, for those of you who don't know what a category three code is, um, uh, they're basically codes that their introductory codes right into the system, the system is regulated by the American medical association, which we refer to as the AMA. So when a service or procedure receives a category three code, the objective is essentially to show data as a result of the use of the code that this, in this case, this service is widely used through all demographics in all regions of the United States. Okay. That data is then used in the future to apply for a category, one code category, one codes in healthcare have a reimbursable value attached to them. So where we're at right now is that we do have a category. We have category three codes for health and wellness coaching. They refer to it in the code manual is health and wellbeing coaching, the same thing. And we are, um, currently in the process of gathering the data that will be used to create a report that will essentially attach with our application for category one codes. Um, we are, uh, in the very final stages. And when I say very final, I mean, I'm just waiting for one signature, um,

Speaker 1: 25:37

A contract,

Speaker 2: 25:39

A contract with UCLA. So, um, the university of California system, um, we're going to be partnered with UCLA and they're going to essentially, how has all that data for us? And so once we get that signature, which should be any day, um, then likely in August, we'll be able to launch, um, this whole data collection project. So we'll be doing a lot of outreach to, uh, not only our 5,000 board certified coaches, but also anybody who's a certified health educator. Okay. Right. Cause they're also listed in the code and we'll be doing major outreach to make sure that anybody who can use the code. And this would be somebody who currently is working in healthcare, has access to an electronic health record management system. Right. So if you can use the code, we're gonna, we're going to walk you through how to use that code. We may be working with the billing specialist or the coding specialist, and anyway, where you get that data and then we're going to use it. And we're going to apply for the category one codes within the next, I'd say 18 months to two years.

Speaker 1: 26:46

Okay. So we can be talking 20, 23. We may have some significant changes.

Speaker 2: 26:53

Okay. And then, so that's, what's happening on that end. But I also like to bring the other side in, because I think this is very important information for the entrepreneurial coach, because there are a lot of coaches out there who say, I don't want to work. Yeah, totally. I don't want to be employed in healthcare. You may want to work with a physician. They may want to partner with physicians or health allied health professionals, but they may not want to work in a healthcare setting for those coaches. Um, we also have been working with the legal team who has reached out to the IRS. So the, believe it or not, the IRS is involved in this because they oversee, um, health savings accounts, health savings accounts are one way that people can in the future pay for health and wellness coaching. So our goal is to get the IRS to essentially list the health and wellness coach as a service that can be used for somebody's HSA account. So we've already submitted all that paperwork. Our legal team feels, this is very promising and hopeful, and really it's just a matter of hearing back from the IRS. And then we'll get that in motion and be able to really help people.

Speaker 1: 28:04

That's a big deal on both sides for the employee that's and obviously I'm prejudice, but I can't think of a single thing that would be on that list. That would be more valuable. It's almost like coaching will be the glue for everything else. So it's kind of like do the coaching to figure out where else to spend your HSA money, because this will help you get your arms around where your life's going, what you want to do. Okay. Wow. That's great news.

Speaker 2: 28:29

I feel very hopeful about that. I really do. And you know, we now have a taxonomy code for health and wellness coaches, which I, I like to, um, explain that as it's like your own personal social security number in the healthcare system. And so, you know, down the road for coaches who want to use those HSA accounts, um, they'll want to get that taxonomy code. And, um, you know, all they have to do is Google it and they'll figure out how to do it.

Speaker 1: 28:59

Okay. And we don't have a timeline on that. Cause IRS, they don't say it's going to be six months, 18 months or whatever.

Speaker 2: 29:06

The application that we submitted was in, uh, December of 2020. Okay.

Speaker 1: 29:13

So, I mean,

Speaker 2: 29:15

We've done what we can do and actually just talking about this makes me want to, um, get off when we get off plug our attorneys and say, Hey, any word on?

Speaker 1: 29:24

Okay. Yeah. That's exciting. That's super exciting. Um, all right. So what do you recommend to people that are curious about health and wellness coaching, but they don't know a lot about it. Maybe they have been listening to this podcast because they heard Ryan Hall was on or Wendy wood or, you know, somebody like that. And they're like, well, I'll go ahead and listen to this one. And I think I'm like, wait, what is this wellness coaching thing? What, what would you recommend for that person?

Speaker 2: 29:45

So is that person someone from the public or is that person from the public? Um, what would I recommend? I would recommend that if they're, um, you know, wanting to make some positive changes in their life that are related to their health and wellbeing, which pretty much is any change, um, that they should definitely consider hiring a national board certified health and wellness coach. And, um, at the very least, at least hire somebody with proven credentials. Right. So I say that because there are many coaches out there who perhaps have gone to catalyst or one of our other approved programs and maybe, you know, on the road to board certification, but they're not yet there. Right. And I don't want to, I don't want to take those people out of this. Right. So I think the main thing for the consumer, if they're thinking about hiring a coach is really pay attention to credentials because credentials actually matter.

Speaker 1: 30:49

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fantastic advice. That's exactly what we say too. They may not be nationally board certified yet, but are they aware of it? Are they on the road to it? Do they have a timeline that there'll be wrapping up in September? Well, that that's a great person to hire the person who says, what do you mean national board exam? That's not the great person to hire, be careful there. Um, how about the coach who is hearing you or the, not the coach, the potential coach, the person who says not, I want to hire somebody, but oh my gosh, this lady is so interesting. I think this sounds cool. What do I do? And uh, and we'll have a link to the MBA's WC website. So that's an obvious starting point, but anything else that they should be kicking around in that thought process?

Speaker 2: 31:29

Yeah, I think there'd be a couple, I mean, one of the most obvious would be like, if you're going to go to a health coach school, choose one, that's approved by the national board for health and wellness coaching because it opens your options for the future. Right? So we talk to people all the time who haven't attended an approved school and

Speaker 1: 31:55

Right. They're like, oh no, I gotta start over

Speaker 2: 31:59

You yourself on the right path. The other thing that I would actually tell somebody who's considering the profession is really do some deep thought before you go into it and figure out if, um, one, if you can get comfortable being uncomfortable sometimes because you have to have a lot of, you know, conversations with people that are very hard conversations. Are you a people person, you know, do, do you mind sitting with somebody and really helping them navigate their way through their own life? I think people need to really reflect on that and not just jump on the bandwagon because it's a popular profession right now. Right. So, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:45

Well, and as you were saying that I was thinking, and do they know how to shut up? Because a great coach, I think a lot of us come into this thinking, well, I'm going to share all my knowledge about exercise or sleep or nutrition or whatever. And that's great that you've got that, but in essence, the key is doing this, helping them figure it out. So, um, yeah, that's good. That's good. I appreciate that. So

Speaker 2: 33:11

Real quick acronym for that, which to make yourself be quiet and it's wait, w a I T why am I talking?

Speaker 1: 33:22

Susanna uses that and the training. Absolutely. We love that one. So you guys all hear that? W a I T why am I talking? It's probably good advice for me as the interviewer to, um, so what sort of between a life coach and health and wellness coach, we get this question all the time. I've got an answer, but I'd love to hear what the true expert has to say about life coach health and wellness coach. How do they differ, how they overlap? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:46

So I think that, um, the biggest difference really is that in the training for health and wellness coaching, um, we have a portion called healthy lifestyles, and that's when the coach really learns about, um, health related topics, right? Blood play, blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, um, and, and really understands that. So that should, let's say a physician were to have a patient. And the physician said, you know, I really think you should work with the health coach. Um, we, we, we want that coach to really understand some of the issues that are going on with the patient, right? So that if they're talking about their diabetes or blood pressure or lack of exercise, you know, how, how can the coach make sure that that patient is moving forward in a safe way? Right. So, so I would say that it's that knowledge of health that makes a health coach different than a coach. That's not to put the life coach down in any way. It's just that a health coach definitely has that more specific.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Okay. That makes sense. And that ties into my next question about scope of practice. I, I, I think that's one of the huge changes in our profession is that that exists. Now. It did not exist in 2016. Can you talk through the scope of practice a little bit? And, and how would you explain that to folks that are maybe hearing about this for the first time?

Speaker 2: 35:22

Yeah, so that's a really a good question. I mean, I always encourage people to really read through the scope of practice document that we have so that they really understand that, you know, uh, health is not prescriptive. Yeah. I think that's the biggest thing. We are not therapists. We are not psychologists or psychiatrists. We don't prescribe medication. Um, we help we partner with people to navigate through their own life. Um, we don't write out diet plans or meal plans. And, and so I think that it's really on the coach to understand not only what the scope of practice is and what they are not, but also to, um, look up their state laws because every state regulates this different. And, um, I just like to make sure that coaches really understand that.

Speaker 1: 36:28

Yeah. That, that makes sense. And, and folks, you've got to check this out. That's not just a Leanne sand, you know, it wouldn't be bad if you, you've got to be aware of this. It's so, so important. And coaches aren't getting in trouble very often, but when they do, it's usually because they're outside of scope of practice. So, um, job opportunities, you've talked a little bit about, I was fascinated when you said about 50% entrepreneurial and about 50% employed. Uh, what do you see in terms of the job prospects? Maybe a little bit on both fronts.

Speaker 2: 36:57

Yeah. So, um, in terms of like employers hiring health coaches

Speaker 1: 37:01

Yeah. Yeah. Or just anything that health coaches could be doing, if they decide to go that route with their career,

Speaker 2: 37:08

Uh, anything they could be doing well, I think if they're thinking about becoming employed, I think, um, obviously getting, getting a fantastic resume in place would help. Right. I think resume people are getting a lot more creative with their resumes. And, um, that's really interesting also, I think just really paying attention to what's happening in the industry. Right? So for example, I was reading, um, and I actually listened to the podcast. Uh, um, it was outside magazine was interviewing, uh, Tim cook from apple and you know, his whole vision for the future is centered on wellness. Hey, you've got to pay attention to that stuff. Like I think if you're going to be in the health and wellness coaching industry and you really want to secure it, awesome job, pay attention, pay attention to what some of the leaders in terms of like company leaders are doing in our country and, and just start understanding the landscape of all of it and where it's heading. What does, how does, you know, what's going on with digital health right now? Um, what's going on in healthcare? What is the American medical association so that when you show up to whatever interview it is, you actually potentially have more knowledge than the person interviewing you. You know? So I would say, yeah, just network, understand the landscape. Don't, don't be afraid to ask people, you know, if you could set up a one-on-one phone call with them just to learn more. I mean, I'm always impressed when people say, can I just talk to you for 15 minutes? I say, yes. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 38:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how many people will do that because nobody asks, if it's it's incredible. Um, and 5,000 MBAs, WC certified folks now, where do you see that going? The next are their projections? Obviously it was heavy upfront. Um, do we think we're going to see 500 a year, a thousand a year? Any general guesstimates on that?

Speaker 2: 39:15

Yeah. I mean, our goal would be that too, if we could grow at a rate of about 2000 a year, right. That would be, that would be great. Um, I can tell you right now, we're in the middle of an exam application window. It closes in two weeks. And, um, we've had, uh, well over a thousand registered exam coming up in October. So we've far exceeded our goal for the year. Um, so it seems to be going in the right direction. I also think that, um, with COVID, you know, people are just more aware of their health and, uh, people are making career changes. I mean, I've read a lot of articles about people just saying, you know, I want to do what I've always wanted. So we have a lot of people coming into the industry right now. And I think that it will take time to train them up to where they need to be before they're eligible to sit for the exam. So, you know, we could, we could see a little dip, but I, I don't, I don't think if we do see a dip, I don't think it's a longterm dip. I think it's just take good to take time to kind of get everybody to where they need to be, to be eligible. So I feel hopeful about the future, you know?

Speaker 1: 40:34

Yeah. We just do super exciting and the more credibility these things have, the, the broader, the opportunities are going to be for everybody. Yep. All right. So wrap up question. Anything I have not asked, what should I have asked? What do you like, why is it he asked this question that would help people out there, either employers trying to figure this out, coaches trying to figure out next steps or future coaches that are saying, I am looking for more advice And you get any, or all of those,

Speaker 2: 41:08

Everything goes, you've hit employment. You hit the importance of standards. Um, I think one thing you didn't ask was, you know, who's on our board, the board

Speaker 1: 41:23

Of directors,

Speaker 2: 41:24

Because I think that matters, right. Our nonprofit, I think that's another thing we actually didn't. We didn't touch on the fact that we are a nonprofit. Um, we are a 5 0 1 C6 and, uh, we're overseen by a board of directors. So that board of directors is, is really interesting because there's subject matter experts. Um, and then some of them also come from approved training programs that have been in the industry for a very long time, so they understand the entire landscape. Um, but then we also have like a physician or actually have two physicians who are on our board, which is awesome. And then we have a couple members, um, from the national board of medical examiners who are on our board. So yeah. So I think that's the only thing we didn't talk about. And, um, you know, I always like to give a shout out to this team because they, again are doing something that's never been done before and they don't operate like a typical board, which might be the expectation might be one to three hours a month for them it's hours and hours and hours a month to get this airplane. Well, it's already in flight. We just have to.

Speaker 1: 42:35

Yeah, yeah, no, that's huge. I'm glad you mentioned that they are doing great work and they're doing it on their own time, in the midst of everything else they have going. So that was a valuable shout out. Well, Leanne as always so fun, great stuff really appreciate it. We'll have links to the MBH CBC website. So follow up on that, but thank you for joining us. This is great.

Speaker 2: 42:55

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's fine.

Speaker 1: 42:58

Thanks for tuning into the number one podcast for health and wellness coaching, a huge thank you to Leanne Webster for joining us for the third time, we are so grateful. She kind of comes on and gives us, uh, an annual update on the state of health and wellness coaching. And it's always so valuable. If you're looking for additional information, please feel free to reach out to us result@catalystcoachinginstitute.com or there are plenty of additional resources on the website. It's catalyst coaching institute.com, any time next week's episode, it's a hidden gem and we've dug into the archives and pulled out one of our most popular episodes of all time. Dr. Mark Mattson of Johns Hopkins, who is the most revered expert in the world on the subject of intermittent fasting. There's a lot of bologna, a lot of junk out there on this topic. And this evidence-based approach has clearly been a hit with listeners. Now it's time to be a catalyst on this journey of life, the chance to make a positive difference in this world while simultaneously improving our own lives, which is the essence of being a catalyst. This is Dr. Bradford Cooper of the catalyst coaching Institute. Make it a great rest of your week. And I'll speak with you soon on the next episode of the catalyst, health, wellness, and performance coaching podcast, or maybe over@youtube.com slash.