Creating a carbon neutral beef operation with Robert Mackenzie, Mackas Australian Black Angus Beef

"Sustainability means leaving the land in a better place, preparing the next generation for a turbulent future in agriculture... and it's probably also a license to produce." Robert MacKenzie and his farms on the mid north coast of NSW was the first Australian beef operation to become net zero through pasture carbon sequestration. Roberts journey began with a dedication to understand the numbers around all metrics on the farm and then adjusting his management to improve these metrics.

The initial seed in his journey to sustainability was planted by Meat & Livestock Australia announcing in 2015 that the industry needs to work towards carbon neutrality by 2030. This led to collecting 1400 soil tests each year across 16,000 acres. This led to healthier and more productive pastures, lower and better use of inputs, improved water holding capacity of the soils and improved weaning rates. Other improvements include adding water points so no animal needs to ever walk more than 800m for a drink. Staff and livestock happiness is also a key goal across Robert's farms.

Reproductive performance is critical with Mackas having achieve 98% fertility year on year. Cows that are not producing a calf but still producing methane emissions are finished and sold. Robert's female herd is the backbone of his operation. 

Robert puts his success down to all the 1%ers that make a business successful. For Mackas this includes carbon sequestration, implementation of alternative energy and better diesel use across equipment, investing genetics with a huge focus on feed use efficiency, addition of many water points, improved ground cover, addressing trace element deficiencies and the inclusion of methane mitigating feed additives. 

You can listen to our conversation here:

Transcript

Ash Sweeting 0:04

Welcome to the Ash Club. I'm Ash Sweeting. Sustainability equals profitability managed correctly. Through a thorough process of understanding his numbers across all aspects of sustainability, Robert Mackenzie of Macca's Black Angus Beef became the first Australian beef producer to become carbon neutral through pasture sequestration. Today we're joined by Robert to hear his story on what motivated his sustainability journey and the work he needed to do to achieve carbon neutrality. Robert, thank you very much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, look, uh thanks very much for having me on your podcast, Ash.

Ash Sweeting 0:47

An absolute pleasure. So as a beef producer in New South Wales in Australia, um who is who is focused on sustainability and beef production, I think the best place to start is what does sustainability mean for you and your family and your operation?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Look, um sustainability uh means leaving the land in a better place, preparing the next generation for a turbulent future in agriculture and in anything. And it's probably also a license to produce. We're going to be made to become more sustainable whether we like it or not. Uh, we've chose the carrot approach rather than the stick approach. Um and you know, and and and have got got on the train early and been very focused on that sustainability. So also I'd probably be able to say, Ash, that it's something that we've all always done. It's just now that we um have a clearer direction to get there to get to the end or or stay in front. Uh and um yeah, it's it's worked out well for us.

Ash Sweeting 2:22

So Mac is if I remember correctly, is sixth generation property or within or enterprise or within your family, so that goes back to to the mid to late 1800s. And I guess what's what's changed? How is it different for for your grandparents to you to your your kids in terms of the challenges they're facing? Um in you know, like the sustainability I see very much as having multiple, it's like a tripod, there's multiple legs, it has to be financially sustainable, it has to work within the society and and be socially sustainable, and obviously there's also the environmental side of it. So, how do you think that's evolved in terms of the challenges and I guess also the opportunities?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, I I I can speak from experience there. Obviously, I wasn't really around, I was only young when my grandparents were um farming, but I work closely with my 87-year-old father, who is very active and and every works seven days a week, and I also work with my two boys, James and and Jack. Um with dad, that previous generation, and obviously the generations before, they've always had a focus on looking after the land and looking after the animals. They never had to, you know, they didn't have um the word sustainability um attached to that, it was just what they did every day. So from dad's point of view, uh this is bullshit, we do it anyway. Um why do we have to quantify it? Why do we have to justify what we do really well? So he probably still struggles with the compliance side of it, uh, and also the importance to really focus on that sustainability, and that is only one you know, one small part of our our operation. And when I say sustainability, you know, if everything we do, we have to do more sustainably, but I'm referring to looking after the land and in the environment here mostly. As Dad says, we've always done this. Um, you know, why do we have to keep a track of it?

Ash Sweeting 5:06

And how does that change, how does that compare with your your son's version on the same on the same topics?

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah, look, they're they're um aligned uh with the need to document it, the need to have a focus on it, the need to have you know uh a solid reporting platform in place to validate what we're doing and show what we're doing. Um I probably adapted well to what the needs are to be more sustainable, what we have to do and how we have to do it. Uh and yeah, we're pretty aligned, aligned there, and they support the decisions that that I make um to to do this. There is times that they have thought are we going to get a a premium for our product for the work that we do? That will come. It just seems like it's taking a long time because we're still talking about the same things we spoke about 10 years ago, sustainability and you know carbon neutral and and all of that. So it's it's taken a while to get that traction with the consumer, even though they want it, uh they still are not paying for it.

Ash Sweeting 6:41

So you mecha, your your property was the first in Australia to to be um carbon neutral or to go through the process of proving that you were you were carbon neutral. So obviously there was a truckload of work that required you required to do to to get that. Um so I guess I guess do you want to tell walk us through that process and also what motivated you to go down that path? And then given given the I guess the the differing opinions as well within the family about the value of that as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Yeah, yeah. So look, there was a farm that became carbon neutral before we did, uh they achieved that by um large-scale tree planting. Um and as a tree grows after a certain period it sequesters a lot less less carbon. So no longer are they carbon neutral, but good on them for taking that initiative and doing that. So we hold the um first to be carbon carbon neutral naturally by grass with a focus on grass sequestration, and it was driven by Meat and Livestock Australia announcing in 2015 that the industry needs to be uh work towards carbon neutral by 2030. Uh, and it was uh you know, hashtag CN30. From there, uh my my oldest son, fresh out of uni back on the on the farm, did ag and business, and um and and Jack, a diesel mechanic, uh and we spoke about what does carbon neutral mean? What is sequester, how does it look? So from that point, we thought, well, this is something that obviously we need to understand, and we need to understand it relatively quickly. So we met a few consultants on the farm that had um they had all the ideas on how we measure the carbon in the soil, how we trade those carbon credits and and what we do there. They had no idea about how can we sequester carbon and how can we get better at it. They had no on um on farm experience uh in doing this. And to me, it seemed like these consultants were the ones that would make the money and potentially a lot of money, and then we lock our our program up to someone else and have no say selling our soil. So from that point, uh we decided to do a few soil samples across our operation to see what levels of carbon uh there was, and we found the areas within our operation, some of those areas had more carbon levels than others, and we were able to pinpoint that to different pasture species, um, more heavy stock rotation, giving those paddocks time to rest, uh, mulching, a bit more fertilizer because healthy grass sequesters carbon. So, from that point, we were able to determine that certain paddocks had higher carbon levels than others, and it was really quite easy. We just need to replicate, duplicate that uh into other paddocks right across our operation. So, from that point, we embarked in a major um pasture rejuvenation across our operation, and that benefited us in so many ways. So we started on a journey of pasture um pasture upgrade across our operation, and we were doing over a thousand hectares per year, so quite large. We started doing regular soil tests every February. So every February we do 1,400 soil samples across 16,000 acres. That's eight properties. So by starting that, we also built a wealth of knowledge for our soil types and soil profiles, and we then built a soil profile map that plugs into our spreader truck or our tractor to then variable rate uh spread um organic fertilizer or fertilizer or a spray, whatever it, whatever it might be. So that's how we got on that journey. Um MLA um planted the seed and we grabbed it and ran with it.

Ash Sweeting 11:55

So a lot of those things you're saying about the the soil carbon and the relationship, the stocking densities and and rest, and also productivity of the grass, all those things have you know productivity implications. So uh above and beyond the the soil carbon side of things, has there been value in that work from a management perspective and a efficiency of production and productivity perspectives as well?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah, look, that's a really good question. I would often say to someone that sustainability does equal profitability managed correctly. So with that pasture improvement, uh obviously we increased our carbon levels in our soil. Uh, carbon feeds micro and bioorganisms that helps hold more water. So 1% carbon gain gives us another 160,000 litres more water holding capacity per hectare. So it's helping us through those drier times where we're still growing grass. We've seen uh an increase in weaning rates, so our weaners are up uh but around 35 kilos uh per calf per animal uh at weaning now. Obviously, the genetics plays a part uh in that, but also you are what you eat, and I often say you are what you eat eats. So our grass is a is a living in a premium active um biological soil, and it's producing a really high quality uh pasture, and then that multiple grass species that are working together above the ground, below the ground, it's making that soil healthier, and it's given us a salad bowl for our for our cattle and worked extremely well. So we're holding more water, our soil's healthier, our grass is healthier, um, our cattle are uh are healthier, and we've improved the value of our um of our properties because the stocking rate has increased, um, ground cover has increased, um, weed control has has been so much easier to manage with such thick uh grass layer. So there's so many, there's so many positives, and we've currently got thir over 39,000 carbon credits in the bank because we offset or I should say we inset our emissions every year from the carbon that we sequester back into into the soil. We then inset our emissions because we work that out every February as well as the soil samples, and we currently have 39,000 carbon credits uh after insetting our emissions uh in the voluntary carbon market in in the bank where we have full control over those credits. So, yes, there I see that there is a lot of benefits. I also see that our staff actually uh are happy to be involved in a project where they feel that you know they're doing something different uh and making a difference. Uh, I believe that you know our family knows it was the right choice and we feel good about what we're doing, uh, and might only be in a very, very small way, but we are combating uh climate change and um are carbon neutral within our beef operation.

Ash Sweeting 15:49

That's wonderful to hear. And you've got your two sons um working alongside you. You you mentioned that your father's still very active, so you've got that core team um that provides that support and that that you know labour and workforce on or across your properties. Um many people would say that you know they don't have the time, they don't have the resources, because what you just outlined is is no insignificant amount of work. So, what would you say to people who come back with those sorts of comments, and then obviously the balance of that is uh the productivity and profitability increases you've managed to generate?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah, I I um that is a valid question because we have spent a lot of money, like a lot of money to get to where we are, and there's a there's a we touched briefly on it before, there's a few driving factors, and and one is obviously I see licensed to actually you know produce in the future, so we're we're we're covering that. It's also what the consumer wants and the consumer expects. So we need, you know, we are consumer driven, so we need to make sure that our product for our customers not only does it have eating quality, but it was produced sustainably and ethically, so we need to be able to validate to our customers that we are doing everything that we possibly can to deliver a consistent quality product sustainably. So that's important to us because we have a boxed beef program, Mac is Australian Black Angus Beef. So the product goes you know all around the world and uh and and within Australia, and it's very important that those customers know that we're doing you know the right, the all the best we possibly can. So, yes, it has cost a lot of money, and some people may not see that they you know want to invest uh into that just yet. But you don't have to go in boots and all, no one would be doing 1400 soil samples a year, no one. You don't even have to do it every year. No one no one would be would be doing that. I wouldn't I wouldn't think it's something that we chose to do on that level to validate and prove that we'd become carbon neutral because there would have been without that solid data, there definitely would have been people out there that um would question the that achievement. And in in in saying that, uh we had an event on the farm, quite a large event, and we had industry leaders, and we we did have a government representative there. Uh and that government representative was the most negative uh person that I'd ever come across. And uh all he wanted to do when we did the farm tours was pick holes in it and uh try to try to shoot us down. So that was uh that was disappointing. Not an elected member, a bureaucrat uh that um that uh sits behind the desk and doesn't really understand in saying that. Yeah, I'm not saying that everyone that sits behind the desk in the government are like that. It was just one person we we uh come across. Uh everyone else has been 100% supportive and giving us you know the support that we needed to navigate the uncharted waters of a sustainable, sustainable farm farm. I'll try to answer that question a little bit more clearly now, Ash. I would say to people that your journey starts when you turn that light off in the middle of the day, your journey starts when you understand your power usage, you understand uh your fuel usage, and you understand how much methane those animals are producing. I think the most important thing is to understand your numbers, and once you see what your carbon footprint is, and you see how much diesel or petrol you use for the year, you see how much electricity you actually use, and then you see how much methane you're producing. So it's that can be done through a carbon account uh calculator. My suggestion is that you get your accountant uh to run those numbers as a separate spreadsheet. From that point, you have started a sustainable journey because you actually know your numbers, right? And then what do you do to reduce that? And once you start reducing that, it gives you the power and the drive to okay, I'll uh put a solar uh pump here instead of an electric pump. Okay, I'll purchase this tractor because it has ad blue uh and uses less diesel. Add blue burns the fuel uh cleaner. Um I've got cattle on the farm that are not uh not pregnant and I'm accounting for their methane output every year when I do when I work this out. What do I do there? So they're unproductive, they're producing methane that goes, you know, goes into your bottom line. So from there, well, do I do um do I do pregnancy testing? Yeah, what do we do? So you don't have to go to the extreme that we went to from the onset, you can just start small and make some make some small changes. And that's that's what I would uh suggest. Uh because once you start understanding those numbers, it's very, very easy for you to manage uh a program to reduce those numbers.

Ash Sweeting 22:18

Thanks for that. Um that's that's very, very valuable. And in terms of the the various solutions, uh you know, the solar pump and the use of renewable energy is is is quite well known, the option the options around more efficient tractors and transports, and like you mentioned, the ad blue is also um fairly well known. But in terms of of the methane and ways to reduce the methane, there's probably that's a a much more open space. So where do you see I guess the challenges and the opportunities? Like one you mentioned was getting rid of the or better management or uh alternative management strategies for unproductive stock like non-pregnant females, but in terms of the broader aspects of reducing methane, what do you see as the I guess the greatest opportunities and also the challenges there?

SPEAKER_00 23:18

I don't think there's challenges. I really don't. Uh I think that's all all opportunities and all positive. So today, obviously, we're only talking about what works for us, why Maccas chose to do this, what works for Maccas, how we navigated sustainability and got to where we are today. So what web done may not work for someone over the range, might not work for someone in Central Australia, okay, but understanding your numbers works for everyone. So our biggest um our biggest single item when we work out what our footprint was. I struggled to get work it out myself then. Sorry, our biggest item is obviously methane. Okay. Now, if I step back a little bit, Ash, I'm a fond believer of all the one percenters that make a business successful. And we mastered the craft of sequestration, okay? We mastered that, and we do that extremely well. Last reporting period, our footprint was just over 9,000 ton for the year, and we sequestered 11,500 ton. Okay, and this is similar numbers every year, year on, year out. We implemented alternative energy, better fuel usage, single pass tractor work. Now we do two passes in some applications, understand our soil profile to lessen uh our inputs, which saves on diesel, which saves on money, which saves on fertilizer. And then we had to look at our animals. So we invested extremely heavily in genetics, and you know what we've purchased, or would have seen what we've purchased over the years, a massive amount of money we have invested in genetics, and that is uh to improve our female herd. The female herd is the backbone backbone of our operation. They have to get in calves, they have to be fertility has to be paramount, they have to get in calf the first or second um uh time. Uh we have to reduce our um the time um the time the calves in in within the mother, so shorter gestation period. We need to increase that that growth. We need to produce an animal that can adapt and and and strive or go well in our in our in our um in our area. So genetics has played a massive part on that. Our fertility is sitting at 98 percent. Um where we've shorted shortened the joining period to only um two months instead of three months. So we have the bulls out for less, so you've got to get in calf that first or second time. We've put strategic water points around the farm. Uh, some of that was because of our experience with the drought in 2019-2020, uh, but it also was a focus on us to make the animal um conserve energy, and that means eat less. So if we eat less, we produce less methane. So where we've got a program where an animal doesn't have to work, walk more than 800 meters to get a drink of water, and we're well down that down that path. Placing water points in strategic areas where cattle wouldn't normally want to go because you know, when they get up to the top of that hill, they have a feed and they've got to walk back down again. So putting water points in key areas that keep cattle uh at the edge of timbered country or or or conservation areas, if you want to say that. So that's been a big a big focus. So let's say that's another one percenter, and then we need to reduce the methane within that animal. How can we do it other than well? I'll just step back a bit. Feed conversion is very important. Um, and our latest acquisition was a bull from raw burn, Aberdeen Angus out of Scotland. Okay, they they measure every one of their animals for feed efficiency through a grow safe system produced or or distributed by Vitelli. We purchased a bull uh brigadoon out of raw burn Aberdeen Angus uh in Scotland this year. That bull is number one in the world for feed efficiency. His dry matter intake is 3.5 kilos of intake for one kilo weight gain. If we can implement his genetics in with our other our other genetics, which has been a focus on fertility, also a focus on eating quality. We've got uh quite a few animals in the top 1% for IMF uh in Australia, so eating quality is is very, very also important for us. I I forgot to just state that. So we purchased this bull, number one in the world for feed efficiency, uh, because again, you eat less, you produce less methane. So we're very focused on producing an animal that produces less methane through genetics, but also has the eating quality that also has fertility that is productive. Okay, we're making that animal more sustainable by having uh and faster weight gain by a better pasture, easier digesting. We're making that animal more sustainable by using less energy to to forage for for grass, more treed areas to be cool or protected in in tough, tough uh weather environments. Our next one percenter is produce a mineral lick. So we um took from our soil samples, we took then took grass tissue samples and blood samples, and we worked out exactly what our animals were lacking from trace elements, what were our animals lacking, and from there we saw some key uh key drivers of how we can make those animals a little bit healthier through some uh different additives. So we developed a mineral lick and we called it ECO2 Eco2 feed. Uh, and we developed this mineral lick through a licensed um premises, and it's wholly and solely produced for our coastal area, so it'll work pretty well up and down the coast. From there, we put a prebiotic and a probiotic uh in that mineral lick, added the trace elements that those animals needed, and started feeding the animals a mineral lick, and we pretty well quickly saw uh an increase of weight gain. We saw better coat, they were shinier, they were healthier, and I think they were happier. From there, we realized that we needed to do just that little bit more, and we've added asparagopters. So we've actually now put seaweed into our mineral lick, and our animals can come within that paddock pasture environment and take the mineral lick as they as they need. We have to then start to measure that, and there's quite a few different ways to measure the methane output, and one of those ways is we have you been using an OptiWay uh AgSent machine. So we developed a baseline with Himalayan rock salt, and we got the animals to go into uh the OptiWay ag scent machine, and they were just consuming the Himalayan rock salt when they felt the need. And animals are quite smart. If they feel that they need or lacking some trace elements, they will consume that until they know that they're happy and then just consume a little bit less once they're their their bodies at optimum uh at the optimum um place. So we've added um asparagoptus uh into uh the mineral the mineral lick now. Uh we have been measuring um the uh methane pre-mineral lick. Uh now we've been feeding them the ECO2 feed uh produced by Cattle Health Australia, and we are measuring their methane output now. Um and look, we're not reducing methane by 80%, uh, but if we can reduce methane by 30 and 40 percent uh that and make that animal um more productive so it helps with fertility, so healthy gut, um better productivity, and also with a focus on methane, uh, this is seriously a game changer, and the product is all natural, the mineral lick, the additives, all all natural, uh, and the animal is uh definitely producing less methane and uh healthier. Now we haven't taken into consideration the methane reduction from using the mineral lick because it's only in its early days, and we have to um do more testing and and validate that. It's great that AgSent and Optiway have come to the party to do some um some testing on on farm uh to see what the um reduction has been. In the future we'll be measuring this reduction um from on a genetic base as well as a feed additive base. Uh so yeah, I hope that um answers that question. Um probably one thing I'd like to add is that I believe is very, very important is the animal's happiness. And again, I'm only saying this from our from our operation, okay, Ash. That animal's happiness is paramount for us because we believe uh a happy relaxed animal uh mothers a calf and looks after the calf better. Okay. Uh a happy relaxed animal performs better, not stressed. A happy relaxed animal is obviously safer in a in a handling uh operation. Um happy relaxed animal I believe produces less methane, takes less food to satisfy its hunger. And uh most important, well not the most important, most important for some people is the eating quality is better when an animal's happy and relaxed. So animal happiness is very, very important, and we do some key things within our operation to make sure that those uh animals are happy. Um, yeah, everything from a bull that owes us shy of half a million dollars, he wouldn't travel anywhere unless he had his mate with him. I know it seems strange, but to me, I don't want to travel from you know the Queensland border down to Victoria to a semen center. Um firstly I wouldn't know what was going to happen when I got there, uh, but I wouldn't want to travel that distance alone, so he travels with a mate. Uh that's that's how focused we are. We have a we have a program that I call mate for life, and when we select the the females that will go back into our herd after you know at weaning, those heifers stay together for the entire time of their life, unless for some reason they you know we needed to top up a herd or something like that. You know, it's a program I call mate for life. Yeah, it's a bit quirky, it's a bit strange. But to me, uh I often say to my kids, how would you want to be treated if you're a cow or a dog or an animal or a whatever it is? Uh let's do our utmost to make sure that that animal's happy.

Ash Sweeting 37:09

That's um, you know, on the on the stress side of things, you know, there's there's no shortage of literature about the fact that stressed animals, um, the meat eating quality is lower, and the fact that you know stressed is a a significant energy consumer as well. So, you know, there's there's a lot of sound, sound um, whilst you said it's quirky, there's a lot of sound science behind um all of those things that you've said. You are you happy with the results in terms of the the methane reduction results that you've achieved and and how is that uh working across your farms? Have you started with um just one one or two herds or one or two mobs of cattle, or are you you implementing that at a much greater scale?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Uh look, um all of our cattle will have it um leading up to giving birth. All of our cattle will uh have it when we put a pre pre-birth pre-joining, all of our cattle will have it pre-joining. Uh running, you know, three and a half thousand commercial cows, six hundred stud cows. It's it's a it's a fair bit to get around all that, uh, to do that, but we um uh soon to implement a uh dry lick um trailer that we can tow around from paddock to paddock. Um this this lick that we've developed it it can get wet because it has a water repellent, natural water repellent in it, so it can get wet, so you can just sit it out, sit it out there. Not all of our animals uh are on it yet, but all of our animals will be once we validate uh the methane reduction part. Um, so I think it's great. We need to supply our animals with a uh a mineral lick to help make sure that they are at their maximum potential, but to be able to now focus on gut health and um with a focus also on productivity, but now reducing methane and and eventually get a credit for that, you could nearly give your animals a mineral lick uh at a very, very low cost because you're getting a credit back. Uh I'm very excited uh about it um and looking forward to the future. So not all our animals have it at the moment. We're not claiming any credits for the mineral lick uh yet, but we will be in the in the future. Uh and all of our animals will have access to this product um probably mid next year, I'd say, after the trials have been been done and and and um and more more solid evidence that the animals reduce methane and healthier.

Ash Sweeting 40:25

Um you also mentioned including methane or methane. Um you can tell I've spent a lot of time in the US as well as in Australia by my pronunciation. Uh you reducing it through through genetic selection. So does that include the the widespread uh monitoring of females for their emissions and then including that into the genetic selection program?

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah, we'll come to that. Uh our first genetic focus is will be um with the bulls measuring measuring the bulls. Uh so we will be measuring um feed intake, but it will also be measuring um methane uh reduction, and hopefully one day we we produce and we are producing high quality bulls for our own operation and also uh we're selling some bulls into um some key producers around Australia uh that um you know want to increase the productivity uh of their of their herd, and there's so many, so many uh good studs around Australia that do that. Um we just have a little you know point of difference mainly to suit our operation, but yeah, that'll start off with the the bulls and then flow into uh the stud the stud cows and we'll be measuring our stud um bulls and and and cows on a regular basis probably mid next next year 2026.

Ash Sweeting 42:10

One of the other things you've got I can't remember exact numbers, but more three, four thousand head across across the different properties. So there's there's a lot of work in terms of providing the soul, the licks, the supplements, monitoring everything. How once again, to the people who say I just don't have time to do all those sort of things, how important is come equal systems that are easy to use or or how you go about prioritizing this in terms of achieving these achievements you've made?

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Yeah, very, very important to streamline it uh and a mobile trailer lick machine that we'll roll out in the coming weeks. So um it's gonna be a game changer. It's uh it will be a it'll be a trailer that can have you know carry uh a few different products if if if you needed. Um but also oh you'll have to just follow me on LinkedIn to see what the trailer looks like.

Ash Sweeting 43:23

I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

We we do have to um make everything easier uh to do because time is costly, um and being over you know all of those animals across all of those properties can be time consuming. So we have one person that he's pretty well his whole his whole day is uh focused on going to certain properties and doing stock rotation. And that's that's that's That's very uh very important. Uh but we use you know technology to to measure weather, rain, wind. Um we measure grass density and how much grass we've got there left for that herd of animals through SIBO labs. Um we're measuring weight gain with Optiway, we're measuring methane output with AgSent. We're you know we're work closely with RAGT seeds and Norco to and our agronomist AgriCor Hayden Hollis to help you know design that perfect pasture and that perfect window to plant that pasture. Um, so we would not be where we are today if we didn't have good partners. We partner with Kubota to you know supply us the best quality lawn care, uh, but also tractors and excavators. Um our bigger machinery is is Volvo uh equipment loaders and and bigger excavators. So look, probably where I'm going, I've gone off track a little bit. It's it's we need to be using quality equipment, quality tech to make our life life easier, um, and we use heaps of quality companies, you know, agri web to help our stock management. The list the list goes on, and these people have supported us, and we've worked together to uh make uh tech even smarter, and they've listened, and yeah, we're in a we're in a good position. Australia's in a good position. And I often say that I do virtual classrooms with Australian good meat and meat and livestock Australia to um primary school kids, and I always say Australian agriculture is in a good position. Um you don't have to work on the on a farm directly to feed the world because there's so many, so much great tech out there that's made our job easier. Even a drone, Ashley, you know, um just not good when the wedge-tailed eagle takes it down. Look, you know, Ashley, there's so many moving parts uh to um what farmers do and what farmers do well, and there's a lot of moving parts in our operation is and you know it's very easy to sort of forget forget something or oh shit, I didn't I didn't say that, but um yeah, we we have a lot going on and it's exciting and um we have a lot of people and you know we have a lot of support. Your support from afar, you know, might be just just like like a post and a and a and or a good story, you know, those things are important. I think Australia, we're not good at telling the good story. Meet and livestock Australia and you know, and and so many other peak bodies, Cattle Australia and New South Wales Farmers Federation, you know, AMAC, so many, you know, that they're constantly telling the great the great story. We just um uh I don't have time to share that story on a post or or or like that. But we have a great story in Australia and we need to tell the world that Australia is open for business, that Australia is producing you know fresh, green, clean product. Uh and the more that we share someone's good story, you know, we all lift together. We all lift as one. Okay, so if your neighbor's doing something great, tell people about it, you know, understand what he's doing. And if you're doing something great, you know, you need to tell your neighbor, look, I've found that this is working. You know, we are not competitors, we are all working together for the for the good of Australia, and if we can you know nail sustainability or nail genetics or whatever it is, that's that's great. You know, everyone's everyone's the the winner. So that's probably why I I like to tell the story. It's not a Maccas story, it's an industry story, because I would not be where I am today without Meet and Livestock Australia and Angus Australia and staff and family and and and customers. So it you know, it's all these people that support Australian agriculture that helps make us great, and we're just you know, I'm just happy that I'm doing something I love and my kids believe in what we're doing, that we're doing the right thing, and we're we're we're having we're having fun. Hard work.

Ash Sweeting 49:19

On on the people side of things, you mentioned you do the the classrooms with school children, and you know, there's there's an ever-growing rural-urban divide, which can cause tensions um in at some places in some countries, in some countries more or less than others. How important do you think it is to one try and build those bridges as much on a personal level as much as possible between um you know our city friends and country friends, and also you know, engage with children as they're growing up about how their food is grown and where it comes from?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Oh, look, it's extremely important. I don't believe that there is a divide between city and and and country, whether I'm naive, you know, you you look if we get a drought or a flood, mate, who bails us out? Who who th puts their hand in their pocket and donates you know millions of dollars to organizations like you know Biobale or Rural Aid, all that's funded by the city. They really put their hand in their pocket and um and and help out. And I remember in COVID, you know, they they uh the local LGA areas was they thought it was that well, they it was it was the hot spot uh for COVID in Sydney and and people weren't allowed outside. And yeah, we donated tons of beef to the local council there to give back to the city. You know, it's something that I wanted to do and give something back. So we donated beef and it was halal beef and it was quality angus, and they put it made lasagna, and no, and the army was was handing it out to this this um local council area. So I wanted to give back because um the city gives so much to us. What I see, Ash, some of that divide could be um may more so, and this is what I've seen and probably around the world, may may be political driven or not driven, but you know, the divide could be could be there because of the politicians. Okay. Um in saying that there's a lot of politicians there that support agriculture, but you know, and like you said, education. Look, it's a tough one to to probably to pinpoint, uh, but I just want to give you know uh the accolades back to the city people that they do really, I feel support us. But I do agree that we need to I I would say inspire and educate the next generation on on where our food comes from, how amazing it is, the work that we do, and be proud that Australia's, you know, we're in that number one podium in a lot of countries around the world for our produce and what and what we do. And obviously that's very, very important for you know maintaining our biodiversity. Yeah, so it's very important. And Australian Good Meat and MLA and and you know the well, I'll say from New South Wales education or education, you know, they are they are committed to educating those kids, and that's why for the last three or four years we've been doing those virtual classrooms. You get some strange questions, but you get some good questions, and uh I feel that you know we're we're we're doing our part uh to keep Australian farmers farming the most I the the best we possibly can. Even even my younger son Jack has jumped onto a few virtual classrooms, and when I first asked him, he said, Oh, do I have to? I said yes, and you know what he said? Wow, that was fun. I try to mix it up. I'm in the tractor or with a horse behind me or with a dog or in the paddock. I mix it up a bit, and um yeah, yeah, and yes, you do get some strange questions from the kids.

Ash Sweeting 54:01

Mate, we could probably talk for another hour or two, but um don't know who'll still be listening at that time. But um, before we do go, is there anything you'd like to add that we haven't already discussed?

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Oh look, we covered uh a broad right broad range of topics, um, but there's something that I would say um I actually did a post the other day on LinkedIn, and I was using the AgSent Optiway machine, and my comment was you can't manage what you don't measure. So understand your numbers the best way you can, and then from that point uh start a journey, whether it's sustainable or whether it's around your your animals or whether it's reducing you know your footprint, whatever it is, start some journey. So I'll finish by saying you can't manage what you don't measure. That's it, I reckon.

Ash Sweeting 55:05

Cheers, Robert. Thank you so very much for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Yep, thank you very much for having me. I look forward to listening. Thank you for listening to the Ashcloud.

Ash Sweeting 55:15

Please subscribe to Ashcloud if you have enjoyed this podcast, where I will continue to discuss food sustainability with guests to bring a deep understanding of the environmental, political, and cultural challenges facing our society and creative ideas on how to address them.