Navigating Life's Big Moments: Why Couples Fight Before Big Moments

Have you ever wondered why fights and arguments often precede the most momentous events in our lives? Remember the time when we recently flew to Colorado for a Focus On The Family staff marriage retreat? The anticipation was high, and so were our anxieties. For us, it was an eye-opener to understand that almost all conflicts have their roots in unfulfilled or unvoiced expectations.

This episode aims to shed light on how to foster a resilient marriage. We talk about recognizing the triggers of conflict, acknowledging fear, and making trust-based decisions. We also share invaluable insights into the transformative power of love, drawing wisdom from 1 Corinthians 13. Remember, love is patient, kind, and keeps no score of wrongs. Strategy to avoid potential conflicts during grand moments? Have proactive, honest conversations. And always remember, forgiveness is a gift we can offer even before it's asked for. Join us for this heartfelt conversation, and let's learn to navigate life's big moments with grace, love, and understanding.

Transcript

Preventing Couples' Arguments in Big Moments

Danny Ray 0:21

Well, it's great to be back with you. We are going to be looking at why do couples fight before the big moments, you mean couples in general. Right like, not us, we're not talking from personal experience here, especially personal this week.

Kimberly Thompson 0:41

Yeah, this is real and might even be really too raw, but We'll find out.

Danny Ray 0:50

The reality is is that when we have something big coming up whether that's a wedding, that's something huge, or maybe it's the first day of school or it's a conference you're going to not that we know anything about a couple of and before that maybe it's. What do you?

Kimberly Thompson 1:10

first day of school, you said like first day of a new job or job interview.

Danny Ray 1:18

That you're excited about. It could be a date night. You know like you planned out this date night. You're excited about it. Maybe it's a trip with the family, who knows? Fill in your blank on what that might be, but why do couples fight before in?

Kimberly Thompson 1:33

who? I have an answer. One of the reasons is the elevated expectations. Right, and I have a theory. It is not proven or nor disproven yet, but it's that's. I'm gonna say, 99.9% of arguments of fights are on met or uncommunicated expectations and I think in our case and we can get into this, this conflict that we had- I don't know what you're talking about.

Kimberly Thompson 2:08

Well, I guess let's let's go there and set that stage first. So we were headed out to Colorado this last weekend, and to not only attend, but we were so honored to get to speak at a marriage.

Danny Ray 2:23

A show first for all a focus on the family's staff, yeah, less the entire marriage retreat. So they Bus everybody over from the Broadmoor which, if you've never stayed at the Broadmoor, oh my goodness, this place is epic. Dream come true, yeah. And so they bust everybody over and you know, so there's, you know, 150 of the couples are there, and then the whole focus on the family staff, so it's probably around 700 ish people. And then the next day we're going to speak at the couples retreat and we we called it the the Olympics of like couples event yeah, yeah.

Danny Ray 3:03

This was going to be our first time speaking together at a couples retreat no pressure.

Kimberly Thompson 3:11

Yeah, god has a sense of humor, for sure. We obviously we've been been doing the podcast for a while now. We've written a marriage book, we have certainly attended our own therapy sessions over the years to and and feel somewhat qualified to speak about, about marriage you as a pastor and for me as a therapist and so we've been excited, we felt God moving in this direction and we had we had this on on the book since last year and then two other Couples retreats or you know, opportunities to speak on marriage.

Kimberly Thompson 3:53

But both fell through for this one of those fell through and those were, in my mind, going to be practice runs and kind of a test at okay, danny.

Danny Ray 4:05

I had a different plan?

Kimberly Thompson 4:06

yeah for sure. But, danny, you traveled the country speaking and you have for the last 20 years that's, that is your jam, that's in your wheelhouse, all of those things. For the last 20 years I have fought the idea Speaking on stage and not just thought it been terrified of it and just thought that's, that's not my, my thing you're exact words may are.

Danny Ray 4:30

The only way you'll ever get me on stage is with a paper bag over my head.

Kimberly Thompson 4:34

I wish you could. Yeah, I wish I could say I was joking with that. No, that is literally. That is the only way I thought that you'd get me up there, and yet God has a way of moving in us and put us up there on stage. However, leading up to that, we were excited. I, admittedly, was terrified at the same time. But, for summary, we were super excited for the trip and we were prepared. We were packed, all of those things. We got out the door on time slash early and, and yet we had a hold day of traveling, which is weird because we're only a couple states over, but you know, southwest likes to take us further than we need to go and then come back. So these two flights where we spent the entire time fighting right, having this conflict and really just missing each other on what was happening in the other person and just, yeah, not really understanding what was going on. You want to speak?

Danny Ray 5:41

to that? No, yeah, definitely it is. I think both of us were definitely excited about it, but I think that excitement also has like anxiety and stress to it.

Danny Ray 5:55

You know it's stressful on my end to never have you on stage with me in the role of speaking and wanting to help you in every way I can, but that led to my expectation of, like I just want to help. I think you had said something on the plane and for whatever reason that triggered me and I just was. I was kind of reeling from that statement and, like a lot of our fights, I couldn't tell you what that statement is, but I just remember it was very frustrating, like I feel, like you're, I think I remember this statement.

Kimberly Thompson 6:34

Oh, what's the statement?

Danny Ray 6:35

I don't know that. It was a statement.

Kimberly Thompson 6:38

I really think, as I look at it, if we were watching our conflict on a video right now.

Danny Ray 6:46

I'm sure you have it on video. No, I do not.

Kimberly Thompson 6:49

If we were watching it, I think. My guess but obviously you can speak to this as well is that I think there were fears there and I brought up a topic to you about that. Nothing to do with speaking.

Danny Ray 7:04

Right, no, I know it was about something, just a choice.

Kimberly Thompson 7:07

I had made one time in my therapy practice and I think it caught you off guard. Is that fair?

Danny Ray 7:15

No, it definitely caught me off guard and felt like you were hiding something from me.

Kimberly Thompson 7:22

Yeah.

Danny Ray 7:22

It wasn't a conversation that we've talked about. We've talked about a lot of things in your counseling session before, but this was we're not really at liberty to say what that is.

Kimberly Thompson 7:36

It's counseling practice, yeah, and it's not like I divulged actual content to you either but these were more just to be clear, when I was going through school, through grad school, and they're teaching us different practices, different theories different ways of practicing therapy.

Kimberly Thompson 7:58

I came to you with a lot of the different ideas just to process it and go. Could I see myself doing this in the therapy room and what's biblical and what's right and what's okay and what's not? It was more a topic like that, nothing about my clients, because obviously that's not okay Ethically or morally to tell you anything that, yeah, any details like that.

Danny Ray 8:21

No, but it is a conversation we had had when you were in grad school and you at that time had made a decision like, no, that's not something that I would put into practice. And so you had, and so that was very frustrating to me. Even though it had been years since we had talked about it. I'm like, well, why wouldn't you talk to me if you're trying a new approach or new concept? So I think in that way it was just really defeating for me of like, oh, I don't get to be a part of the conversation more like.

Danny Ray 9:01

You've started this job, you're under supervision, you're talking to your supervisors, but you're no longer bringing that to me here we are going to this marriage conference where we're supposed to have no secrets. We're gonna, you know share that that was one of the big, you know things we're going to talk about is you know how do, how do we be?

Kimberly Thompson 9:21

the magicians can have secrets, but that's it. Marriages don't.

Danny Ray 9:25

Yeah, yeah and so I felt like here it is we're about to talk on this very subject and you're keeping things for me so I think, I had this expectation, like okay, we have this all dialed in and then come to find out not that you were keeping something for me intentionally and. I know that now, but at the time it was like well, how would you not know to bring that to me and so but that for me.

Danny Ray 9:53

Just began a spiral and yeah and it was very frustrating and hard to hear you and hard to understand your point of view. And so did we handle this right? No, did we eventually get there and handle it well. Yes, yes, but I wish I could say oh, all the things we're teaching you we handle right every single time but we don't we don't, and this is these are things that, if we could go back, I wish we would have done it in this way.

Danny Ray 10:29

So the first thing is active listening. It is essential when your, your spouse or your significant other is speaking to you, that you, you hold their heart in your hands. You, you hold their, you're caring for them in such a way you're not trying to hurt them or defend yourself or talk about your cause, but try to really understand their point of view and listen to what they're really saying, not just the words, but the heart and the intent behind it.

Kimberly Thompson 11:06

Yeah, I want to give actual credit on on the, that visual of holding each other's heart. We actually heard that reiterated at the conference and that was Christy and Josh yeah, straub, with famous at home and yeah, they, they do amazing ministry as well and they I that. That really helped me. It was after the fact for our fight, but this visual of holding your heart and and going okay. So if I had been able to see this as more of a heart issue and a hurt, that you were in pain and and I could see that to some extent during our fight, but I still felt like I had to keep defending and saying, okay, but this is what this is why I didn't bring this to you. It didn't. You know, I wasn't hiding it.

Kimberly Thompson 12:02

It just didn't occur to me that you'd want to know something that I had decided was was okay or not, okay in in the therapy room for me as a therapist and yeah, so that hope that active listening is crucial. If you're listening to respond, you're doing it wrong.

Danny Ray 12:25

Right, we have to listen let me ask when you say doing it wrong yeah, you know, because that those are big words there. So how? What is a way that you can respond? Because obviously you have to be able to listen, but there's also a time to respond.

Kimberly Thompson 12:40

So yes, we're listening for understanding, right. So I, in this case, I think and you can refute this but I think I did okay at trying to hear you and your heart in this and yet I think you got so triggered that it just kept you stuck, maybe, in this world of hurt and not being able to, but I I didn't. Uh, well, let me think out how to say this. I, I was trying my best to listen to what your concerns and frustration and validate that. That's really the big part of that. That I could see that you were hurt Doesn't matter, that my intent had nothing. You know I had not intended to hurt you at all, but I had to at least acknowledge I had to hear it and go. Okay, you think that I to you, it felt like I was keeping a secret.

Danny Ray 13:38

And can you talk about? I'm going to mess this up like my biscuit got blown, my limbotic blown into the atmosphere. Can you talk about what? You know what I'm talking about?

Kimberly Thompson 13:52

I do. I do so our limbic system, yeah, it gets blown. So I'm doing this motion with my hand right now that we were taught by a doctor, a psychologist, at Loma Linda. And they, you make a fist with your hand, like closing it over your thumb, and it basically, you know, kind of one finger at a time you start lifting and going okay, so one finger up, two, three, four, but when all four fingers are up you have blown your top, and so it's a signal you can use for your partner to to say, like when they're talking or maybe they're getting angry at you, and you can physically show them with your fist.

Kimberly Thompson 14:42

That looks like hand and fist, like you're going to punch them in the face though, oh yeah don't, don't, do that, not towards them, or just keep it, you know, right by your, your heart or your face, and but, but it's a symbol of hey, I'm getting really angry and once we've got to that point of anger, we're no longer listening actively to, to hear to, for understanding. We have blown our limbic system and and, biologically, at that point you can't. You need time to cool off. You cannot keep going, and that's why it is futile in a fight where, where couples or it doesn't matter if it's a, a boss and an employee, but if somebody has blown their top, their, their limbic system has just gone offline, then that's, that is time for a break, because nobody's going to get anywhere at that point.

Danny Ray 15:41

So those, those two things, actively listening, I did not Taking a break we actually did.

Marriage Forgiveness and Communication Learning

Danny Ray 15:51

And so the beauty of flights is they eventually land and you get off a plane. And so when we got off the plane, we did take a break, I did cool down both of us. I'll say that because it wasn't. I think you were hurt in this argument and you were trying to like figure out like how do we get back on the same page? And so, as we took some time to to process, we came back to our core of let's give each other grace, let's apologize, let's forgive each other, let's reconcile, let's move in the same direction together.

Danny Ray 16:31

I think of Ephesians 4, 32, where it says be kind and compassionate to one another and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ. God forgave you, amen. I know during our first year of marriage, one of our I don't want to say our first fights, but there there's some fight we had, and I can remember really trying to put this verse into practice of when I think about how Christ forgave us, it's always before we asked, always before we entered into a relationship with them, before we feel sorry, he's already forgiven.

Danny Ray 17:11

So it's not like he's waiting for us to ask for forgiveness and then he grants he's forgiven us prior. And I definitely don't want to say I'm great at this, but I've actively worked on this for years.

Kimberly Thompson 17:25

And there was a yeah, there was a big moment in that first year of marriage where I think it was about but sorry, my mouth first day with these new lips.

Danny Ray 17:37

I like those lips, my lips, oh great.

Kimberly Thompson 17:41

Now I'm going to sing a Veggie Tale song, my lips.

Kimberly Thompson 17:43

So yeah, first year of marriage, and I think it had something to do with being late if I remember right, this is 27 years ago now, but I think I had come home late. I think this may have been pre-cell phones, so I couldn't call you and I remember walking in the door ready to say you know, I'm so sorry and I think it would have started a fight normally. But you looked at me and you said you know what? I've already forgiven you, it's okay. And that was really life changing, I think, for both of us to learn to forgive before the person.

Kimberly Thompson 18:24

Now it doesn't mean I'm sure we talked through things, but the idea that I was already forgiven at the beginning of that conversation was huge.

Danny Ray 18:36

Yeah, and we can't always do it before, but if we can and that is how God forgives us we are in the practice of following Him and want to learn to forgive the way he's forgiven us, and so we work on forgiving each other before, and so we talked about what was going on. We talked about how do we resolve this. At this point, I think we were able to have a real conversation with one another.

Danny Ray 19:12

After we calmed down, yeah, identify what are the things that triggered us, what's the pain and the hurt, instead of covering that up with anger. And for me, I was able to identify. I felt like you were keeping things from me and that triggered me. That wasn't based on the truth, but that's what triggered is oh, now you start a new job, you have your own career and now you're not sharing things with me. And so.

Kimberly Thompson 19:45

Maybe a piece of that was even feeling left out of that. Yeah for sure.

Danny Ray 19:50

But that's based on fear and we don't want to make decisions based out of fear. But we want to build that on who God is, on who we know each other to be, and trusting the best in the other person For sure, and in that moment I was seeing you as an enemy and we've talked about this and not really like enemy, but you're like.

Kimberly Thompson 20:19

But that I had wronged you, I had done something against you. You've done this.

Danny Ray 20:23

I'm going to make it right Instead of like hey, there's a fear that we could attack together and this is the fear of you thinking that we're not on the same page or that I'm hiding, and if we would have attacked, my fears going on we would have been able to resolve things a lot quicker and you would have been able to confirm that that's not what's going on and encourage me and all the things we wish we would have done and we're hoping to help somebody out there who's listening right now to learn to put these things into practice.

Kimberly Thompson 21:00

But it's not difficult, or it's not difficult, it's difficult, it's difficult. Sorry, so, oh no, and now I've lost my train of thought with something you had just said with with it not being difficult with it being fun. Here, I'll keep going and you see, okay, okay, I will think about it, sorry, no, that's fine, you can go as many times. Sure, I had the most amazing idea and then I was gone, of course.

Danny Ray 21:31

The one of the keys, though, is I was blaming you, and I think, when we look at like, what's a healthy way to resolve and to repair conflict is, we have to avoid that blaming and shaming. Putting that on you, yeah, instead of recognizing what's really going on with me is I'm afraid that I'm no longer included in that conversation, and so I don't know what. When we asked you at the beginning, fill in the blank of something big that's coming up, but I would encourage you, if you have something big that's coming up and you guys are excited about, maybe a little anxious about it, or just maybe it's an unknown, but this is a conversation you could have before, and I wish we would have had to say you know what?

Danny Ray 22:25

we're about to enter into a big moment and Satan loves to attack marriages period.

Kimberly Thompson 22:31

You know For sure.

Danny Ray 22:34

And here we have an opportunity to speak into the life of all of these marriages. It's a high possibility that we're going to get attacked or attack one another. So how can we prepare and be ready for that? And I wish that's a conversation that we would have had.

Kimberly Thompson 22:51

I agree. Did you think about what you were thinking about? Yes, oh yes, sorry, and it does have to do with that. Just those you know. So we said at the beginning that the expectations create pressure, and what I'm hearing you say in this is the that thought that we're supposed to speak to couples about. A little part of it was about not keeping secrets. And there you were on the plane feeling like I had kept something from you.

Danny Ray 23:18

Right.

Kimberly Thompson 23:20

Like I think there's a big tie in there, right?

Danny Ray 23:21

I don't think so.

The Power of Love in Marriage

Kimberly Thompson 23:23

They have nothing to do with each other, right? So it was a wow, how. I'm wondering if at the root of this was also a how are we supposed to go and talk to other couples if my wife is sitting here keeping things from me? What, like how are we supposed to stand up there and say don't keep secrets? And there you were feeling like I was doing that, right? So, yeah, I think having that talk at the beginning would have helped us a lot. Praying against any attacks would have been very helpful, for sure.

Danny Ray 23:59

I wanna leave you with a verse.

Kimberly Thompson 24:02

You're leaving me with a verse. No, I'm leaving everybody. Well, I can't leave you, leave us all. Okay, I'll take it.

Danny Ray 24:06

Everybody with this verse. It's a verse that's familiar. Maybe you said this verse or had this verse spoken over you at your wedding. I know. Anytime I'm officiating a wedding, this is a part of it, but I wanna leave you with this. It's 1 Corinthians, chapter 13. Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered. It keeps no record of wrongs. Thank you, you don't have any wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. May we learn to love another like that. That's the type of love that will transform your marriage Really. It comes back to the mantra of we do whatever it takes to create a great marriage, and that type of love will create a great marriage. This is Danny Ray and Kimberly With.

Kimberly Thompson 25:18

We do whatever it takes.