What's Your End Game For Marriage?

Ever wonder how  a magic show can teach us about the secrets to a flourishing marriage? Danny Ray, a magician with a twist, and his wife Kimberly, a skilled associate marriage and family therapist, captivate us with their magical formula for marital success. They illuminate the pivotal role of a shared vision in steering a couple through life's unpredictable turns, paralleling the meticulous planning of a magic act with the intentional steps necessary for nurturing a partnership. In our heartfelt conversation, they unravel the intricacies of supporting versus challenging each other's dreams, and emphasize the transformative power of clear communication and the strength derived from prayer in the marital bond.

As we traverse the landscape of love and commitment, Danny and Kimberly offer an arsenal of practical advice for couples looking to fortify their union. The couple stresses the importance of intentionality, revealing how deliberate acts of grace, forgiveness, and thoughtful conflict de-escalation can pave the way to a resilient and vibrant relationship. From setting healthy boundaries to maintaining a positive, long-term outlook, this episode is a wellspring of wisdom for those yearning to actively cultivate a marriage that not only endures but thrives. Join us for an episode that's not only about pulling rabbits out of hats but also about nurturing the magic at the heart of every enduring love story.

Transcript

Building a Vision for Marriage

Danny Ray 0:21

We are off and going again. This is Danny Ray. I'm a magician and pastor and this is my incredible, amazing, terrific. Do I need to keep going? Are?

Kimberly 0:30

you going to jump in there at some point? Sure, no, I'll let you keep going. I'm Kimberly and I am an associate marriage and family therapist.

Danny Ray 0:38

Oh, I almost said my girlfriend, but oh, you're my wife.

Kimberly 0:41

I'll be both.

Danny Ray 0:42

I'll be both.

Kimberly 0:44

Good to know, good to know I'll be both.

Danny Ray 0:46

I'll be both. Good to know, good to know. So if you are tuning in for the first time, we just want to help every marriage that's out there to do whatever it takes to create a great marriage. Early on, we just figured out how do we do this. We don't have it perfect, but it became a goal and a mission of of like let's work toward doing whatever it takes to create a great marriage so we got some really good tools early on that allowed us to an engagement yeah, yeah, so that was helpful.

Kimberly 1:16

so we want to pass on the tools and we want to uh, today we're we're wrapping up season and we're going to talk about having the end in mind, and you talk about that a lot in terms of your magic show when you're planning Creating a show, I want to have the end in mind for sure.

Kimberly 1:38

Yeah, so tell us more about that. To me that's not natural to just start with the end in mind, especially in terms of marriage, but we'll get to that. So you tell us why that's important and what you do in that process, when you're creating the magic show.

Danny Ray 1:55

Yeah, I think this is whether it's a magic show, whether it's a business project, whether it's a marriage or just in your own personal life, you have to know where you're going.

Kimberly 2:07

Well, that's a good point yeah.

Danny Ray 2:10

And so with the show I could cut different parts in the beginning, middle, but I can't cut the ending. I mean it is going to end somewhere and it might just fall apart and I walk off stage. But typically if I'm cutting something, it's to tighten up the show. I'm like, oh, I'm losing a little bit of connection. And I think this happens in our marriages too. In a show, you want to constantly be building, working towards that kind of big finale, but in our marriages, when things start to plateau, or they start to go downhill.

Danny Ray 2:47

What are we doing to reconnect? What are we doing to go like? You know what. We want our marriage to end where we're loving each other well, where we're giving more grace every day, where we're giving more to each other, more to others, where we love God more, where God's at the center of our marriage. So if that's where we want to go today, how do we do things and build things to lead in that direction?

Kimberly 3:17

Yeah, for sure. And when we have a plan like that, then during those times of plateau, like you said, or struggle, that's when we go okay, what's our plan again, what's our vision? How do we get back to some of the things we've already been doing? What's some of our usual tricks, so to speak? To get back to there.

Danny Ray 3:40

Yeah, so this isn't a magic trick, but imagine if I gave you and your, your spouse, a set of legos and I just said, hey here's some legos.

Danny Ray 3:50

Um, I want you to um go ahead and build, you know what that's supposed to be. And you kind of look at the legos and you're like, well, I don't know, um, why don't we, why don't we build a car out of this? And you build a car and it kind of looks a little wonky and, you know, a little weird Are you saying we have Legos but no instructions.

Kimberly 4:09

Yeah, so, but if I give you the instructions a picture step by step here's what to do right Now.

Danny Ray 4:23

You have a vision. Now you have the end in mind of exactly what that's supposed to be, and that will help every day if you keep the vision in mind.

Marriage Goals and Communication Growth

Kimberly 4:30

There's a proverb, yeah, absolutely, I was just going to say you know what the Bible even talks about this right that in Proverbs 29, 18, it says where there is no vision, the people perish, and this definitely highlights the significance of having a clear vision or a goal to strive towards and it provides direction and, like you mentioned earlier, this is important in business, in gosh, like everything across the board right and specifically we're talking about in marriage, that which I'm gonna keep kind of confessing, if you will. That that's not where my mind goes. I'm not a visionary. I don't. Usually I'm quite happy with just kind of going. You are a dream crusher.

Danny Ray 5:22

Yeah, yeah, not a dreamer, that's your department dream crusher right here.

Kimberly 5:25

Yep got the t-shirts and everything. I love my dream crusher. Yeah, yeah, not a dreamer. That's your department Dream crusher right here. Yep Got the t-shirts and everything.

Danny Ray 5:29

I love my dream crusher, but every once in a while I'll bring a dream to you and you do say, oh, I see it.

Kimberly 5:36

Every once in a while, dude, you're living your dream. What are you talking about? That is true.

Danny Ray 5:41

But I do have a lot of ideas, and you will crush some of those ideas.

Kimberly 5:50

Yes, Lovingly and kindly, and usually because of financial reasons.

Danny Ray 5:59

Yeah, there's a variety of reasons, but sometimes it's just not the right time, it's not the right idea, period or financially. So there's a number of reasons that you dream crush.

Kimberly 6:08

And we joke about that, but really it means that we both have to be on the same page, right? We both have to have the same vision for our marriage and for our ministry ministry together and individual ministries.

Danny Ray 6:25

So yeah, let me a side note on ministry for a second, because I think sometimes people hear that and if you're a follower of Christ, you're in ministry.

Kimberly 6:35

You know people tend to think like oh, I'm not doing overseas, or I'm not signed up for something to minister in my church, or or I'm not signed up for something to minister in my church, or yeah, okay.

Danny Ray 6:45

Ministry is you're doing the work of God wherever you are. You know if you.

Kimberly 6:55

If you work the gas station, if you work.

Danny Ray 6:56

Whatever you are, there's opportunities there to do your job with excellence, which is reflective of who God is, and people see you know that excellence in what you do and you know they might ask you like that excellence in what you do. And you know they might ask you like hey, why do you do things the way you do? Or, um, you end up having a conversation with somebody that you might not have if you didn't have kind of that ministry mindset. But that's a side note um in terms of um.

Danny Ray 7:21

Keeping the the end in mind is, if one of the goals of marriage is to have Christ at the center, that he's at the forefront of our thought, our thinking, that we're working towards becoming more like him in our marriage, we have to rewind and go like. So how do we make those things happen today? Right, and one of the things we would consistently challenge you on is to pray together. We have found that that single thing of praying together changes the outcome of our days and it impacts our marriage, our family, those we lead, impacts our marriage, our family, those we lead. So praying together and praying together can start. As simple as God, please help us Doesn't have to be. Jesus talked about not being impressed with these kind of large ornate.

Kimberly 8:20

Elaborate prayers. Elaborate prayers, yeah.

Danny Ray 8:23

Is ornate. I don't think that's the right word. Elaborate, yeah, yeah, but elaborate whatever. Elaborate prayers.

Kimberly 8:25

Yeah, is ornate. I don't think that's the right word Elaborate.

Danny Ray 8:26

Whatever Right. So it's not the amount of words. It's the heart behind those things. When Peter was walking on the water toward Jesus, when he began to sink because he looked left and right, he didn't have this long prayer of like Heavenly Father right now I just want to say how great you are. No, he's sinking and he said a prayer that you can't leave one word out.

Danny Ray 8:57

Of Lord save me If there's nothing that needs to be added or subtracted to that prayer. In that moment You're to the point right, and so, as a couple, you can pray simple prayers, or they could be more elaborate prayers as you grow in your faith or depending the season you're in.

Kimberly 9:20

Or the situation, like you said, yeah, or the situation. But taking time to pray together.

Danny Ray 9:26

Another thing I would say and then I'll let you jump in is for and this is definitely like as a magician, like I know my wife doesn't necessarily love you don't love surprises. This is true. At the same time, I do try to bring an element of surprise or fun into the relationship to what I've learned with surprise. So, let's say, we're doing a Disneyland trip.

Kimberly 9:53

I used to think like surprising you with.

Danny Ray 9:59

that is the best option. But what I've learned, knowing you better, is that you love all the planning that goes into the surprise, so I'll share.

Kimberly 10:14

So I can still be surprised that, ooh, we get to do that, because that would be a huge deal. But you'll give me enough time to enjoy the surprise.

Danny Ray 10:23

By planning it out and getting ready and looking at the weather, things I would never do, you know.

Kimberly 10:29

Yes, yes, making sure we have our beanies if it's cold, because it does actually get a little cold here in SoCal.

Danny Ray 10:36

What are you talking? 65? Oh no, I need my beanie.

Kimberly 10:39

Absolutely, absolutely. So yes, you love surprises, but, um, you have kind of adapted that to what works for for me, which means us in our marriage, um, so other things that you do to keep the end in mind, that, um, keeping our eye on the prize, like ensuring that every action we take aligns with what our, our, desired outcome is. So, if we want to have a vision for our marriage that's that includes supporting missionaries who are overseas, or maybe it's a trip to visit a child that you sponsor, um financially or and with prayers or things like that, that then then we have to be taking steps to get to that right. We can't just surprise. Let's book a flight, and right now.

Kimberly 11:36

I guess some people maybe they can, but um, but for us, for most people, I think it takes budgeting and planning and putting aside money for those things and, yeah, so, having the end in mind, that's another area that we can do that.

Danny Ray 11:56

Yeah, One of the things that I think of in terms of just mastering sleight of hand and I don't consider myself a master. I'm always going to be a student in anything I do.

Danny Ray 12:07

Um, I happen to have, um, a lot of time and expertise in that area of sleight of hand, um, but I still have to practice right, there's still new ideas, new moves, new things to work on, and in our marriage, there's always something new we could be practicing. Yeah, and this is one of those things where, just because you failed at it last time, we hear all the time from people and I know you more so as you're counseling people- of. I don't communicate well.

Kimberly 12:40

We don't communicate well together.

Danny Ray 12:42

Any number of like. Is that? Am I?

Kimberly 12:45

right, yeah, yeah, we don't communicate well together.

Danny Ray 12:46

Any number of like. Am I right in saying it like that? And so one of the things we like to think about is not defining ourselves by saying I'm a poor communicator.

Kimberly 12:56

Yeah.

Danny Ray 12:56

Instead of rephrasing that, of saying I am struggling with communicating with my wife right now, but I am learning to do this better. I think of Isaiah and I don't know the. I know it's in the first chapter where it says stop doing wrong, learn to do what's right.

Danny Ray 13:18

And so I think that's the practice that I want to be in, is I want to stop doing these things that, even if it's not wrong, it's not effective, it's not helpful, it's not beneficial, and I want to learn to do those things that are beneficial, that are going to help you to communicate better with you, to love you better, and so I think what I would say for anybody listening out there is what's something today you could put into practice. Maybe your spouse has said it before, maybe you've struggled with it and you just feel like you're horrible, but today you're like. You know what. I'm going to no longer view myself as I did in the past.

Kimberly 13:58

I'm like I'm horrible at this or that's just who I am. I can't do this or I can't yeah and I'm going to start using a different language to say no.

Danny Ray 14:05

I have the end in mind and with the end in mind, I'm actively working toward these things. And whether that's, you get a book, listen to a podcast, talk to a mentor, talk to a therapist. Whatever you need to do, whatever it takes to fill in the blank, do that and put that into practice. But it starts today, nice to fill in the blank, do that and put that into practice. But it starts today.

Danny Ray 14:26

Nice, I think we continue to put these things off and then, five years down the road, we continue to be poor in terms of communication or any number of things.

Kimberly 14:35

I love that. I love how you put that and it ties in with in therapy. We talk about having clear and achievable goals, so making sure that, okay, if the end in mind is to be a great communicator, or at least a lot better than I am right now, then what are the baby steps to get there, like you're saying, and how do I know that I've achieved it right? How will my spouse see that? What's the what's? What would be different? How would I know that I got there, but not just at the end, but along the way, because I want positive reinforcement along the way. I want to know that, oh, I nailed it there, I got it, you know I improved in that area.

Kimberly 15:20

So I think that's a key, a key part of that.

Danny Ray 15:23

Part of that is we. We talk about expectations, but it's also having the right conversation at the right time.

Kimberly 15:31

You, know like you talked about.

Danny Ray 15:33

You know asking your spouse like, hey, how am I doing? Am I hitting the mark?

Kimberly 15:37

Am I getting closer?

Danny Ray 15:38

You know, is if I these are the things that pop into my head If I show up at a baseball game and I'm like, oh, I can't wait to get to the baseball game and I get there and it's a magic show, Like my magic show might be great, but if you're Expecting- yeah, that makes a big difference.

Danny Ray 16:00

Expecting to go to the baseball game and meet some friends there and all of a sudden you're like it's a magic show. Like to the baseball game and meet some friends there and all of a sudden you're like some magic show, like I brought, I don't know, peanuts and popcorns, cracker jacks, you know, uh, you know something's off and I feel like in our, in our marriages, like we have to show up in and be on the same page with the conversation we're gonna have yeah, if you think you're having a baseball conversation and she thinks she's having a magic conversation or anything else.

Danny Ray 16:28

you know it's going to clash, even though all the intentions can be right, even though you say all the right things you what are the conversations that we could have? Where we are on the same page, having the same conversation, because then we have the possibility of communicating well. Where the in the other scenario you could communicate well, but it you're talking, baseball she's talking. I need better than magic. I'm shopping.

Kimberly 17:03

What would it be? I like shopping. All right, thank you. So yeah, we're. We want to just encourage you, as we're encouraging ourselves, to reflect on your own goals and aspirations Again. Have that conversation as a couple and then remember how the importance of staying focused on your ultimate goal and break that down into smaller, achievable steps.

Danny Ray 17:32

Yeah, and I just think of all the things you want to in terms of goals that you want to build right. You want to build your ability to trust one another right. This is in every area when we're learning to communicate better, when we're building trust by consistency. We're building trust by doing the things that we say we're gonna do, following through on those right. That's going to strengthen the bond between the two of you.

Kimberly 18:00

Yes.

Danny Ray 18:01

When we talk about communication, it's like just every day there's opportunities for enhanced communication to go you know what? Yesterday I didn't do it as well. Today we're just going to start small and pray through something. That's another one. I would just say Continuing to pray, I think, builds an intimacy.

Kimberly 18:20

Absolutely, absolutely.

Danny Ray 18:21

Talking about what's on your mind on a regular basis, whether it's the financial struggles, work struggles, struggles with kids, struggles personally, struggles emotionally, whatever those are is not feeling like you can't share those, but actively working towards sharing is going to bring you to this bond in terms of your marriage and figuring out ways to grow in your faith together.

Thriving in Marriage Through Intentionality

Danny Ray 18:48

Going to church, going to a Bible study reading stuff together devotionals, praying together, all these type of things that build this intimacy in your marriage. Anything you want to add to that, I could throw in a couple more. I'll throw in one with sexual intimacy. You want to continue to be effective in the bedroom and connect that way. I think when that area is cut off, a friend of mine likes to say that's the barometer for a marriage is if the sexual aspect of the marriage is dwindling. That affects the whole, and so we want to make sure we're connecting in the bedroom as well.

Kimberly 19:33

Absolutely, I think, bottom line. It's so easy to say your vows on the wedding day and expect that marriage will just be great and the facts are, or the fact is that it doesn't just happen on its own. You might be able to survive marriage or your marriage might survive, but to thrive in marriage means being intentional, and that's what we're talking about today is being intentional keeping that end in mind. What's your goal together as a couple, and how do you get there?

Danny Ray 20:13

Yeah, and all of these things we've talked about are things we believe are steps to get you there, putting these things into practice every day. Again, we don't have it flawless by any means, but we're learning to have like this crazy grace for each other where we are constantly going.

Danny Ray 20:33

yep, I know you blew it, but I love you and I'm for you and I give you grace and we're learning to forgive. We've talked about um this, but we actively work in um an argument or in conflict is bringing down the intensity in um shortening the length. So instead of having an eight hour fight, let's bring that down to two hours one hour half hour 15 minutes, you know, is learning to bring that, shorten that, and early on we've learned that.

Danny Ray 21:11

You know, just raising your voice and yelling, or you know we've talked a lot about boundaries in this podcast, but we've put a boundary to say, you know what, we're not going to scream at each other and that's not effective for either of us. And even if we're mad like let's, let's come up with some other options. You know, go for a walk to to give yourself some space to cool down, like in that, um, what do you? I call it blowing your limp biscuit, but what do you?

Kimberly 21:40

call it your limbic system. There it is, that's what it is. Interlimbic system.

Danny Ray 21:43

There it is, that's what it is, yeah, is when that's blown, you're not going to respond, say things or do anything that's going to add value to your marriage, correct, correct. So how do you take a moment to pause, get out of that situation for a moment and then re-engage at a higher level of competency and Calmness, calmness, calmness. Approaching things with grace, seeing the best in your spouse. Yeah, so that's where I'm leaving us and do you have anything? You?

Kimberly 22:19

want to. No, I love it. We've got to keep the end in mind.

Danny Ray 22:22

Yeah, all right, that's the end of season. No-transcript.