S5:E10- Grace vs. Rescuing

In this episode, Danny and Kimberly unpack the powerful difference between grace and rescuing. Grace means loving with truth—while rescuing means taking responsibility for someone else’s growth. Together they explore what happens when our motivation shifts from love and empathy to fear and control, and how that small shift can quietly lead to resentment and burnout.

They’ll walk through “The Grace With Boundaries Model,” contrasting the heart behind grace versus rescuing, and share practical tools for discerning your own motivations. You’ll learn to ask key questions like:

• Am I doing this out of love or fear?
• Am I taking responsibility for something that isn’t mine?
• Does this act honor both of us equally?

Grace says, “I love you enough to tell the truth and let you grow.”

Rescuing says, “I can’t handle seeing you fail, so I’ll do it for you.”

By the end of this episode, you’ll know how to love others deeply—without losing your boundaries in the process.

Transcript

Danny Ray 0:21

We do whatever it Welcome back to another episode of We Do Whatever It Takes. I'm Danny Ray. I'm a magician and pastor, and this is my incredible bride.

Kimberly 0:33

I'm Kimberly, and I am an associate marriage and family therapist.

Danny Ray 0:38

Woo-woo. All right. So what are we talking about today?

Kimberly 0:41

Today we're talking about something I see quite often in uh in the counseling office. And I'm not going to be talking about anybody specific. Just give us names and addresses. No, no, no. But so keeping this vague, and yet this is a common problem. Uh, we're still talking about grace. This is probably our wrap-up on grace this season that we've been talking about. Um, but there's there's a difficulty, especially for people in the church, um, people who are are Christians, Christ followers, and they want to um make sure they're extending grace, but there's a there's a line there where that it often gets muddled and confusing. So somebody might say, Um, well, my husband comes home drunk every night and he says he'll change, but he doesn't, and and this is the same pattern over and over, but I'm showing him grace.

Danny Ray 1:39

And yeah, so this idea this idea of grace isn't uh isn't the same as what what Jesus is talking about in the Bible, what God wants us to extend and give to others is you're continuing to allow a behavior and um excusing a behavior instead of having actual change. Uh and so this idea of grace, it's tricky because we don't want to put boundaries on grace. You know, we want that grace to go as high and deep and as wide as possible. And then at the same time, we want to make sure that we're not being abused or taken advantage of and and people call it grace. Yeah. And that's um that that's a little bit of the direction we're going today. So, Kimberly, talk to us about what you would do in that situation and how you help them to understand who they are and the value of who they are in that.

Kimberly 2:38

Yes, that is key. That yeah, thank you for saying that. So it's it's when we understand our value, who we are in Christ, that we can feel confident in saying, wait a minute, I'm worth more than this. I shouldn't excuse this behavior, this pattern that somebody is doing over and over and over and say, Oh, well, sorry.

Danny Ray 3:02

Um And I love you more than just excusing that behavior. Like we we want to see changes in our spouse or in somebody that's hurting or in somebody that you know needs um to make healthy changes, you know, whether that's with somebody dealing with pornography, with a gambling addiction, with drinking, whatever that that struggle is, just to say, oh, you know, they they said they're sorry. And you know, but it's if there's a consistent, constant pattern, we we need to to go, okay, what are some different ways that we could bring about change and not just give in and just say, well, I'll give them grace or her grace in this situation.

Kimberly 3:44

Yeah, because grace by definition means loving with truth, right? Grace plus truth equals love. We it's not enough to just say, well, because truly that's not biblical grace if we just excuse behavior. That's really just excusing behavior and not allowing somebody to be responsible for themselves, their actions. And in fact, for a lot of people, tendency is actually more women tend to do this, um, but become rescuers, right? I can fix him. Uh, and this goes both ways, but I'd say um statistically speaking, there are a lot more women that struggle with this. Uh, but it's they believe that they can rescue. And the the problem, the difference between grace with love and truth is that uh rescuing means taking responsibility for someone else's growth. Right? So does that make sense? So if uh like I'm getting in the way of your growth if I keep on just excusing your behavior and taking Well, the other thing is I can't take responsibility for you, and you can't take responsibility for me.

Danny Ray 5:02

Yeah. And so the first step of moving forward and having transformation in them in we'll we'll just say with the person that's drinking for for to use that, is that person has to say, I'm going to take responsibility for my actions.

Kimberly 5:17

Yeah.

Danny Ray 5:18

I'm aware that I've hurt you. I'm aware that I'm asking you to just give me grace without change.

Kimberly 5:26

But but why would you even do that? Why would you want to own it and take responsibility if I just keep excusing it and going and believing that I'm giving you grace? Yeah. Right. That's not actually what grace is or what it looks like. But but if I'm believing that, oh, as a Christ follower, I just have to show him grace because he makes these mistakes. No, you in this illustration are not just making mistakes, you are not owning, not being responsible for what you like you said.

Danny Ray 5:55

Yeah. And it's difficult because of the, you know, the the tensions that could be there and the the love that you have for that person. To put this in a different realm of either food or an exercise, right? Is I can't um I can't go, you know what? I'm gonna eat really well for you when you eat terribly. I'm like, oh, I so wish you could.

Kimberly 6:15

Oh, please eat better for me.

Danny Ray 6:17

Or I'm gonna do push-ups for you. Here we go. Please, yes, yes. Now you're gonna get stronger because I'm doing the push-ups for you, right?

Kimberly 6:24

Oh my gosh, I wish it worked like that.

Danny Ray 6:26

It doesn't make sense in that area, and it doesn't make sense in any area, but that may be a clearer way to see it. I like that. I can't do push-ups for you.

Kimberly 6:35

Yeah, yeah. It it's something we have to own.

Danny Ray 6:38

So that might even be a way to have a conversation about it is to give a physical, you know, the the food or the um the exercise illustration um as an example to say, hey, I I want to, and I've been trying to do this, but I realize I can't do these things for you. For you to get healthy, you have to make the decision. You have to take responsibility. And I want that, but I can't do that for you.

Kimberly 7:06

Yeah, yeah. I want to talk for a second about grace versus rescuing. Yeah. Um, the motivation of rescuing is out of fear, guilt, or control. Right? So we have to pause for a minute and and go, okay, what's my motivation? I I believe I'm showing grace, but I'm actually rescuing because I have this fear that if I don't, I'm gonna go back to the illustration of let's pretend you come home drunk every night, which is not true, but just using that as an as an illustration. Sure, you're welcome. Um so if if I operate out of fear, well, it's uh it's better than me being alone. So I if I fear that you are just gonna leave me or fear that I'm gonna be alone if I don't rescue you, if I don't make excuses for you, right? I mean, sometimes it's to the point where people are, well, I'll call in sick for you because I'm helping. I'm but but I'm not. This is an example of trying to rescue, and it's never gonna help you in the long run, right? And it's motivated by either fear, guilt, or maybe even something control that I want to have over the situation.

Danny Ray 8:24

Another like fear in there is the fear of the the consequences of like what if he or she loses his job, what if, and but consequences um are what helps lead to responsibility and going like, oh wow, I lost my job. Oh wow, I didn't pay my car payment because I, you know, I've lost my car. And when you start to have real consequences for your actions and they're not excused, they're not just oh, let's just give grace to that and kind of trivial like trivially. Yeah, thank you. Uh that's the word, uh trivializing grace. And um that that helps people. That's kind of this God built into our world thing, is there's natural consequences for our actions. But when you begin to remove those by um trying to rescue, yeah, that affects the outcome and the the possibility of it happening in a quicker way, which is the result you want, but you're cutting it short by trying to make it easy.

Kimberly 9:35

Another one difference between grace versus rescuing, yeah. Um the your view of yourself when you're operating from true grace is that you believe that you are equal with others, that you believe that you are who God says you are, that you're not operating about, well, I'm I'm less than, so I must put up with this behavior.

Danny Ray 10:03

Um versus So when you realize that you're chosen, that you're loved, that you're redeemed, that you're forgiven, that you're made new, that you are a son or a daughter of the king of kings, then I can operate and go, I I just I hate the word deserve, but I I God doesn't want this for me, where I'm just rescuing somebody and and doesn't want that for for the person who's coming home drunk every night either.

Kimberly 10:28

That's not the what what God wants for them either. Um so grace as far as what it looks like in action, yes, is offering support and truth, right? So I might not well, so if I'm operating out of God's grace, yeah, I'm it means I'm gonna say to you the truth that hey, this is a problem and this is affecting me, it's affecting you. And what do we want to do about it? Or what are you going to do about it? Um, so offering support doesn't mean just like you're on your own.

Danny Ray 11:04

A second there. And so let's say somebody listening right now, and remember to make the connection. This isn't about somebody being drunk or about gambling or about what is a situation that you might be excusing or rescuing or whatever that is. If somebody's in that situation right now, what's something they could um a step they could take as a rescuer and go, this would be a better way to handle this? And then on the other side of that, um, the person that they're rescuing from whatever that situation is, what is something that they could encourage them, right, to do and maybe allow um letting them know like this is going to be the the new action that I take. Yeah. So because just doing something and not allowing the other person to be aware of it could also hinder progress.

Kimberly 11:58

Okay. I think I'm with you on this. So um I can definitely speak to the person who, well, to both of those, I guess. The the person who is struggling with whatever addiction or or whatever repeated behavior pattern that's not healthy. And their side of it is um is taking responsibility. That's that's really their the only option as far as healthy relationship goes, you've got to own it and and decide that this is enough. And I'm gonna surrender it to God and I'm going to work on it and get help for it, and I'm going to apologize because I see how it affects my spouse and my family and my life.

Danny Ray 12:44

And remember, our motto here is we do whatever it takes, and we want to encourage you to take that. Is if hypothetically I was that, you know, Kim threw me under this bus if you're the drunk in this situation. If I was a drunk and she came to me and said, I really I'm not going to excuse this behavior anymore. You were consistently coming home drunk. That's unacceptable. And I went, I need to do whatever it takes, right? Yeah. I want to do whatever it takes. If that means a financial decision we need to make that is difficult, if it means I need to maybe step away from um certain people or certain situations, whatever that is, we we have that mentality of we want to do whatever it takes, regardless of the cost, to create a great and healthy marriage.

Kimberly 13:32

Oh, I love that so much. Um, and I think uh what makes this easy to talk about is that that by God's grace is something we put into practice all the time, that we are gonna do whatever it takes. And that's a decision we made from the beginning.

Danny Ray 13:48

And doesn't mean that there aren't rough times, there certainly are, but in our And just uh a reminder from the beginning for us was um I had a porn addiction and you know, our first year of marriage, I ended up in an adult um bookshop. And when I walked out of there and just felt all the shame, and I we were just married, and I thought, when we get married, all these addictions will go away. Um lo and behold, they did not. And then I had to make the decision do I do I just keep that secret and she doesn't know, and I just continue to in that behavior, or do I do the hard thing of going to her hat in hand, humbly, shame like I was full of shame. It felt disgusting and uh I felt so weak as a man, but going to her and just going, like, I I need help in this area. And so she came alongside and we worked together and went went to counseling and figured out what are some solutions to move forward. So it's not like, oh, we we just have everything together. We had to figure these things out and have long, difficult conversations on what it looks like to move forward.

Kimberly 14:58

Can I tell you something funny?

Danny Ray 15:00

Oh no.

Kimberly 15:01

I know these are hard things to share, especially when we're doing this publicly, to say, hey, that's that's part of our story. Um, but it's hot.

Danny Ray 15:13

Get out of here.

Kimberly 15:14

No, it's so I know. I this I think the the women out there know what I'm talking about, but maybe the men too. There's something very sexy about the honesty of that, and that it's something that you that we worked through and you buried and is um we're on the other side of. And no, stop undressing your shirt. Keep your shirt on. This is not that kind of podcast, but um, anyway, we digress. You did ask me about thank you for sharing that. I do, I sorry, I do want to say that. Um that's not easy, but I appreciate that. Um, you asked me a minute ago about what can the person who tends to rescue, what can they learn? What can they do differently? And this is I'm gonna call it a grounding practice. It's called the the pause. Like there's even a name for it.

Danny Ray 16:13

For a moment, for those listeners who've never heard of like a grounding practice, can you explain what that is to begin with?

Kimberly 16:18

And then a specific grounding technique really has to do with um keeping your your limbic system online, meaning that you're not going to explode and get all crazy uh out of like anger and and operate from the the bigger emotions, but you're gonna breathe and respond in a healthy way.

Danny Ray 16:38

Okay, so this is one of those practices?

Kimberly 16:41

Yeah. This is um essentially pausing before responding. I mean, this is not rocket science, but uh I've even had clients this week be like, oh wow, this is life-changing to learn to pause. Actually, not just this week, to be honest. Um, and this is something I I've had to work on. So, anyway, so when you feel pressure to say yes, or your pattern is just always saying yes because you're fearful if I say no, they won't like me, or if I say no, they'll leave me. Um so if you feel when you feel pressure to say yes, step one being breathe. And it really doesn't matter, but just to give you an example, you could say inhale for four, exhale for six. But I don't care how you do it, to be honest, just take some deep breaths. And number two, pause before responding because we're taking some breath and we're pausing and ask yourself if I say yes, am I betraying myself? Right? So we a lot of us learned in in childhood that our needs don't matter. Why even look at our needs because they're not gonna get met, or they um we're just so unaware of our own needs because it was crucial to please somebody, or it was crucial to uh take care of a parent, maybe is is a common one. So um so they so we learn not to even be aware of our own needs. And so this is a retraining and or a training really for the first time for a lot of us that we go, okay, I'm gonna pause and I'm gonna be aware of what my own needs are and my own wants and and not not in a selfish way, but just a if I say yes to you in this, am I betraying myself? Is this what God would want for me? Am I going to be so empty after I say yes to this that I'm pouring from an empty cup that I have nothing left? Like that's not what God wants for us. That's not grace. Um, so that's step three is asking that question. If I say yes, am I betraying myself? And the fourth part is respond with truth and grace. Um so yeah, being kind never requires being cruel to yourself. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a yeah, that's a good practice. Um the pause if uh if that's something you struggle with. And you know, the truth is we're secretly talking about the big word codependency. And so anybody um who's aware that they struggle with that, but if you're not aware, that is what we're talking about in psychology terms. But I don't care if you name it that or not, that's not the point, because it can be scary to call it uh codependency has such a you know a negative wrap, but um essentially it's just us not being aware of our own needs and saying yes to things out of fear and being rescuers and things that um that's not grace.

Danny Ray 19:54

So as we wrap up, yes, what's one or two things that they could take home with them to maybe put this into practice in a in a tangible way with either themselves or with their spouse of either addressing something? What you know, I know you deal a lot with this because it's a very common thing in therapy that you're dealing with, but what are some practical? I know you've given some, but if there's I've got three questions.

Kimberly 20:21

Oh, okay. I do, I do have this.

Danny Ray 20:23

So let's see, what do you have?

Kimberly 20:25

Um, so especially for who I'm gonna call the rescuer, um, I want you to ask yourself these three questions. Am I doing this out of love or fear? Okay, right? Fear that if I'm not quote unquote nice to this person, they're gonna think poorly of me and they're gonna hate me and they're okay. If I'm thinking along those lines, I'm not I'm operating out of fear. I'm not operating out of love.

Danny Ray 20:52

And as a whole, we don't want to operate out of fear. We want to operate out of God's grace, out of his love, out of his hope, out of his future, out of all the things that he's designed us to be, not out of um fear. So okay, absolutely.

Kimberly 21:03

So second question Am I taking responsibility for something that isn't mine?

Danny Ray 21:09

I mean, sounds like the answer's yes. The way you phrase that.

Kimberly 21:13

Oh, sorry. I just think it's you know, these sounds simple, but they're so good for those of us that don't ask this of ourselves, right? So am I taking responsibility for something that isn't mine? Is this a burden that I should be carrying? I should really only be owning the stuff that's my side of the street, right? I it's not my job to own yours. Can I come alongside you and support you and help you with love and grace and truth? Absolutely.

Danny Ray 21:40

Yeah.

Kimberly 21:41

I'm not called to just, you know, go, oh, see ya, sorry, you have this problem. Bye. Right.

Danny Ray 21:47

You're a part of the solution as a as a spouse, but the solution isn't you doing push-ups for the person.

Kimberly 21:53

Yeah.

Danny Ray 21:54

Bring that back.

Kimberly 21:55

Yeah, you can bring that back, and I so wish you could, man. Um, okay, and my last one would be does this act honor both of us equally? Right. If I'm going to deny my own needs and wants, like I said before, uh and pouring from an empty cup and I'm just gonna be drained, that's gonna cause resentment and it's also gonna cause dependency. You're gonna depend on me to carry the weight, to do all the things, because that's how we set it up. And then that's not honoring myself in that. That's not honoring who God has designed or what he wants for me. So those are my three questions. Um, as long as well as the grounding, the pause. Um, those are my recommendations for anyone struggling with this. And uh, it's been a really great season of talking about grace and grace grenades. We had started with. Um, so thank you all for listening this season, and uh, we will see you next season.

Danny Ray 22:55

Yeah, I can't wait. And we are yeah, super thankful for everybody out there listening. We really do hope that this um helps you to take steps in the right direction and create that marriage where you do whatever it takes to create healthy, fun, intimate, great relationships. All right, that's it for now.