The First Customer - How To Drive Impactful SEO and Conversion Strategies with CEO Dave Schneider

In this episode, I was lucky enough to interview Dave Schneider, the CEO of Shortlist.io.

Dave shares his upbringing in Ashland, Massachusetts, a small town where entrepreneurship was not encouraged. He explains how his early life and family background led him toward a more traditional career path, but eventually, after working a corporate job, he shifted to a more nomadic lifestyle with his wife. They started a travel blog that eventually turned into a client service business, introducing travel bloggers to agencies in exchange for commissions. This business experience laid the groundwork for his ventures into entrepreneurship and SEO.

Dave delves into how Shortlist.io, a marketing agency focused on SEO and link-building, was born out of his desire to create a sustainable service business that could fuel future software projects. He describes how he partnered with a business development expert to grow the company, leveraging outbound marketing strategies like email campaigns. However, he acknowledges the challenges posed by changes in the industry and the decreasing effectiveness of email outreach. In response, Dave has adapted by increasing his involvement in in-person networking, launching the Philly Tech Entrepreneurs group to foster community connections and push his business forward despite the shifting landscape.

Join us as we navigate the world of digital strategy and growth, inspired by Dave Schneider's remarkable insights in this episode of The First Customer!

Guest Info:
Shortlist
http://www.shortlist.io


Dave Schneider's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-schneider-8a693115/

Connect with Jay on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayaigner/
The First Customer Youtube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@thefirstcustomerpodcast
The First Customer podcast website
https://www.firstcustomerpodcast.com
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http://www.linkedin.com/company/the-first-customer-podcast/

Transcript

[00:00:27] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today I'm in lucky enough to be joined by Dave Schneider. He's the, not co founder. He's the founder and CEO of shortlist. io. I did meet your wife today. She counted as a co founder. Is it just you?

[00:00:40] Dave: No, but my co founder does count as a co founder.

[00:00:43] Jay: Okay. So you are a co founder.

All right. So we have a co founder somewhere. Dave, what's up, man? How are you, buddy?

[00:00:47] Dave: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on the podcast, Jay.

[00:00:50] Jay: Well, we had the pleasure of meeting in person briefly the other day. We both had a booth, at the expo and, it's weird. Cause you don't really spend a lot of time with the people, you know, with cause you feel like you're like trying to just.

Be in booth mode. So, I'm glad we get to spend a couple minutes today. we did get to meet through, Philly tech entrepreneurs group, which is another thing you got going on, which as if you don't have enough. so let's start from the beginning there, man, where did you grow up and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur?

[00:01:15] Dave: Yeah, I grew up in Ashland, Massachusetts. It's like 40 minutes west of Boston, small town, 15, 000 people, like 160 kids in my grade. So, you know, relatively kind of like suburban experience. I don't know if it had any, if it had an impact on me being an entrepreneur, it was basically, To not be an entrepreneur because that was just not, I was not around entrepreneurs as a kid.

My parents were not entrepreneurial. That was like, my dad was a teacher, my mom's a nurse. and basically, you know, that was not like a career path that people thought of and just in general, the advice that I got was like, study hard, work hard, like go to a good college. So I wasn't really like particularly entrepreneurial at a young age.

[00:01:53] Jay: Did you say your dad was a teacher? Is that what you said? I hear it so far. I hear that so often. That's like such a weird connection to entrepreneurs. And I don't know if it means anything or if it's just an happenstance, but I hear a lot of entrepreneurs have teachers for parents. so, you know, maybe there's a thread there.

So talk about business, man, when you came out of the small town or the suburban life, I mean, just looking at your LinkedIn, like you founded or co founded like a hundred different businesses, you jumped into it and started revving through things. What was the first one you actually started?

[00:02:23] Dave: the first one, I guess you could say I started it. It won't even be on my LinkedIn. But basically, after kind of getting out of the small town, then I went to uni, then I graduated. I got a corporate job. I worked out for about 2 years. Eventually I quit. I went digital nomadic with my wife. and the goal was travel around the world for as long as we can, you know, kind of.

Save up money, that type of thing. And we started a travel blog. We started making money through SEO. And we learned that a lot of the ways that travel bloggers were making money was to introductions to like, agencies, and just kind of building like this network, which was something that you built over time as a travel blogger, but many other bloggers wanted to make money, but didn't have that network.

So started this kind of this service of like introducing other travel bloggers to our network in exchange for commission. On whatever they earned from the relationship. so basically we kind of solicit travel bloggers be like, Hey, do you want to make some money on your blog? They all did, because that was the point of why they even had it.

No one knew how to do it. So we'd kind of introduced them, make the rounds to these different connections that we had. And then if like an exchange happened, like say 200 bucks or something like that for a guest post on the travel bloggers website, we would take like a 10 or 20%, something like that. And we just kind of, you know, rinsed and repeated that.

and it kind of became this like client service business that we ran, that was like reasonably successful at the time for us. Yeah,

[00:03:47] Jay: Are blogs dead these days? I mean, other than just for SEO, like, is it like, are people, is it still super active? Like, I'm not a blogger or even do I should be doing it for my own site for SEO reasons, but I'm not, because like, there was the big peak where like, everybody was doing it. It was like a thing.

It was the hot new thing. Who's like, is it? Mainly for what it's always been for kind of, you know, content generation for people and, you know, people consuming it like, normal.

[00:04:13] Dave: to a degree. I mean, blogs are kind of like the first sort of medium to a degree of like how content could be created and consumed, right? Written. And now we have podcasts and now we have videos on YouTube and TikTok and there's so many more ways to kind of produce and consume content. So I wouldn't say blogs are dead, but they have sort of like competition.

And so it's really just about understanding whether or not like your audience sort of. Like learns through blogging and whether that's going to be a benefit to them or not. So, that's kind of one of those things where there's sort of like this old outdated advice, like everyone should start a blog.

Everyone should have one, et cetera. And that's just not true, but it doesn't, but at the same time, it's definitely not dead. It can be a very useful tool.

[00:04:55] Jay: Got it. all right. So you traveled around the world and you did a lot of fun stuff. did you eventually buckle down into, you know, living somewhere and kind of growing roots somewhere?

[00:05:05] Dave: Yeah, it took about five years or so. The trip was originally supposed to be like one year, kind of two. It was going to be kind of like a sabbatical. I said, come back and go to business school and just sort of transition back in the workforce. But then as we started to run some, businesses kind of while we were traveling, I started a software business.

We had the travel blog thing going a couple of the little things here and there, we kind of realized that we could just kind of keep this going. Like for like indefinitely, on top of the fact that it just is very cheap, in many parts of the world. you know, especially when you don't have like a mortgage and kids, which we didn't at the time.

but you could travel around Asia parts of Europe for like not a lot. So we just kept going, you know, we were kind of just live in our twenties. And then eventually after about five years, as I really started to get more rooted in entrepreneurship and we started to think about wanting a community, starting to want to raise a family, maybe buy some property.

We started to think about where to settle down and eventually we ended up in Philly. being from Boston, it was relatively close to home. but, we also knew a couple people like from my wife's college friends. We said, let's give it a shot. We'll rent an apartment for like a year and a half.

And if we like it, we'll buy some property. If not, we'll shop around. We liked it. We bought property. Here we are.

[00:06:17] Jay: Wow.do you think you could run the business? I mean, kids with standing, I think that's a whole separate conversation, but do you feel like. If you're abroad now, later in life, that you could run the business as efficiently as you do from just having a home base and having an office, you know, office does we all kind of do, is it the same because I struggled to do that even now when I'm on vacation or whenever I say I'm going to work and I sit down to do, I'm like, this just is not, I'm not in my zone.

Do you feel like you could do that again if you had to?

[00:06:50] Dave: no, yeah, it's not really possible. I mean, you know, that doesn't mean you can't successfully run and grow businesses while traveling you know ninja outreach which was a software business that you know I kind of bootstrapped eventually exited after four years like I did 90 percent of that essentially like kind of on the road and stuff and just kind of Delegating working with the team and things like that.

Like it definitely But there wasn't a day when I didn't feel like it was some weird, uncomfortable trade off between, do I work today? Do I explore the city that I'm in for three days and we're going somewhere else? And this is the whole point of me traveling about kind of getting out and experiencing new places.

And a lot of ways I was just kind of felt like I was doing a poor job at both of those things. That wasn't being a great business owner, a CEO, that I wasn't being a great, like traveler and kind of hadn't really properly set aside time. So that was one of the things that, you know, after a few years, we kind of just said like, it wasn't that we, you know, couldn't have just kept doing what we were doing, but I just felt like I was sort of stuck within the limits of what the lifestyle afforded in terms of like the working aspect.

And that was one of the main reasons why we decided to, to come back to the States. Yeah,

[00:08:01] Jay: see the totally real and not fake at all you know linkedin and instagram posts of people like working around the world and like they're on the big beach I'm, like I just I have trouble doing it man Like I can't mix the two I either want to kind of be in or be out And like it's always been kind of tough for me to do both.

[00:08:17] Dave: it's not that comfortable. As it was like a ton of glare on your screen, like sans getting in the keyboard and you're just like, this isn't at all like what it looks like.

[00:08:25] Jay: I hate having even like One meeting at like four o'clock during the day, I feel like I just subconsciously, like everything is based around that during the day. And I feel like I can't really disconnect and enjoy myself and whatever. So anyway, all right. So you move back,let's fast forward where, or maybe there's something in between you and talk about, but let's get the fast, I was going to say, fast forward, let's get to shortlist. io. where did that come from?

[00:08:53] Dave: after running this ninja outreach for four years or so, and eventually exiting it, I was kind of doing a bit of consulting, just Oh, you know, I'll just kind of see where the wind takes me type of thing. And I knew that I wanted to get back into products. I wanted to launch more software businesses, but I wanted to, I knew number one, a services business would be easier, quicker to start.

And then number two, I believed that it would benefit me down the line that as I wanted to launch more products, I wanted to own the marketing services myself. I didn't want to ever be kind of reliant on somebody else to, you know, determine the strategy and the pricing and the people like I wanted to kind of have all those things in house.

So the engine, so. I started shortlist primarily in the space of SEO and link building, which was just like a space that I knew very well from travel blogging, and everything that we had done with that with the goal of building up more inbound related services so that later on when I, you know, launch software businesses, I already kind of had a playbook to kind of go after.

And then, you know, naturally, yeah. Like as an entrepreneur, when you start something like you always just wanted to be independently, sustainable and profitable. And so it's okay, yes, this is something I'm sort of building for me and my future projects. But if we can get some clients for it and it becomes, can become self sustaining, then whatever is that additional profit is what can be used for growth of my own project.

So that's kind of where shortlist came from. eventually, you know, relatively early on, like maybe six months into it, I did partner with someone else who I thought would be like a good, person for the biz dev side of things. Cause I've always been more of like an operations dude, like managing the team and thinking about how to run the service efficiently and stuff like that.

I've never been like a going to networking events and stuff like that kind of guy. So it's like, I need one of those to join me. And I partnered with, this guy, David, and we've been kind of worked on it for the last six years or so.

[00:10:37] Jay: Guy who runs Philly Tech Entrepreneurs Networking Group is not good at networking or business development. I love, we'll get to that in a second, but I love that. That is something you do. it's just like the classic, you know, if you're too comfortable, you're in the wrong place. And it feels like you've kind of lived that a little bit and keep pushing yourself to learn and do new things.

who was your first customer shortlist

[00:11:00] Dave: First customer for shortlist was, it was within the network Of my partner, David, and that was really kind of like one of the main reasons to bring him on, he was kind of a well connected entrepreneur, would always be going to different masterminds conferences, you know, events for other entrepreneurs, a lot of people in like the seven, eight figure plus range.

and so as he went around, he kind of said, Hey, I've started this new agency and we've got this kind of angle around how we do link building and other services. and one of the ones he, connected us with Was just, you know, ecstatic about what we were putting together and wanted to get in.

So, yeah, and we just kind of brought him on. It was just really just within the network type of thing.

[00:11:38] Jay: and what did you guys do when the network effect, you know, cause at some point that. You cap out your network, his network, anybody's network. what was the next approach? Was you applying your own playbook from your own company? Like what's, how did you guys start to build, you know, inbound or outbound and whatever you chose to go after?

[00:11:57] Dave: Yeah. Ironically, we went with the outbound, which was, you're right, like eventually kind of the network just become something that, you know, you can only scale it so much. Someone can only kind of meet so many people that can only refer so many people. You reach a certain point in business. You kind of need generate your own leads through other channels.

We decided to do outbound just because, it was just something that we thought would be like a quicker kind of A to B in terms of getting. People and, it was sort of better suited for the team. So we did the usual, you know, I mean, I used, you know, ninja outreach was kind of an email marketing software.

So I had background in, you know, setting up, you know, you know, mailing boxes and templates and the, tracking and getting it all together. so kind of, we just built this out for the team. Give them a little bit of a, you know, started developing who that ICP was. You know, what is the way we should talk to them?

Start sending out some emails, generating calls and yeah, kind of that has, that was really the way that the business got, you know, to that next level.

[00:12:58] Jay: And if you, how has that evolved? How has, have you continued to, I mean, is, If you talk to a hundred business owners, they're each doing a thousand different things, right? So like, has, have you, has some of it stopped working and you've just moved into other things? Like what is your stack today? If you were like doing outbound, is it cold email?

Is it, you know, LinkedIn stuff? Is it, cold calls? Like, is it some combination? What is your stack today?

[00:13:21] Dave: Yeah. I mean, I just wrote a post on LinkedIn like a week ago or so, and I kind of shared like all the analytics from, not all the analytics, but some of the most important analytics from our outbound, like the. Over the last like three years or so, like dating back to 2022 and just here's how many emails we send.

Here's like, wow, what the booking rate was. and you can just see like a massive degradation in that channel, like over the years. I mean, we're talking like, you know, I mean, we, so we would probably send, maybe we used to maybe send like. 20, 000 or so emails a year. So it wasn't like, I mean, it wasn't like crazy volume.

It was, you know, not insignificant, but not like massive volume. but from that, you know, we'd have a decent booking rate of maybe like, I don't know, one to 2 percent or something that I don't remember off the top of my head, but it was something that in that range, and now it's like, a 10th of that, you know, in terms of like the booking rate.

And the weird thing is that over the years, you know, our actual process I think has gotten better. we're using all the fancy tools that everyone says you use. We're using Apollo. We're using clay. We do, you know, email, like deliverability checks, you know, never bounce, whatever it might be.

We just, we're using all the things as part of the playbooks. I do a lot of the editing of the email templates myself. we're tracking all the analytics. We're strategizing every week about, you know, who we should get in touch with, what that angle should be. Our website's better. You know, we have more case studies.

We have more authority, more reviews, like everything that should. Result in a successful outbound campaign is way better than it was two years ago. And the results are like one fifth of what they were. I think that there's a lot of macroeconomic stuff going on both just in the States and then specifically within outbound as a channel.

it's gotten easier than ever for anybody to just launch, you know, campaigns left and right. And to the extent that, you know, people never really liked the campaign. Getting, you know, solicitations in their email inbox to begin with. But I think now that become so like desensitized to them, it's just harder and harder than it's ever been.

So, we have, you know, kind of. Scaled up the channel to kind of balance out a little bit of the degradation in the conversion rate of the channel to try to achieve similar ish numbers. But a lot of the kind of slow demise of that channel is why I've been doubling down on a lot of like in person networking stuff, despite it not really being my forte.

[00:15:36] Jay: And how's that been? I mean, you, I. said it clearly, like, that's not normally your thing. how have you gotten over it? Did you just kind of suck it up and go like, well, the numbers aren't as good for email. So now we need to try this other thing and I'm going to go try it. And you just went out and did it.

I mean, you've started a whole community, which is growing and I see you at expos and all these other things that, you know, somebody, maybe introverted or says they don't like to do that stuff and wouldn't be at. So what have you done to kind of get out there to do it? How have you pushed yourself past the, you know, the normal limits of your comfort?

Yeah.

[00:16:08] Dave: Yeah, it's interesting because I don't necessarily think of myself as an introvert, although I'm not like a clear extrovert either. There's like a term ambivert is like kind of somebody in the middle. And I usually call myself that, it wasn't like I was like super opposed to networking or anything like that.

It was more just that, you know, I kind of felt my partner. Sort of like that was his responsibility. And when you have this in your mind that it's like clear delineation of rules, you just kind of, it just doesn't really think about, you know, come your way. but he started to get involved in other businesses and just for various like life reasons as well, was driving less, you know, referrals.

I was just, you know, I need to pick up the slack. Like if anything's gonna, if we're going to kind of amount to anything. So I started to get deeper into the Philly tech kind of community. going to events from other organizations and then eventually starting my own, which is Philly tech entrepreneurs.

I like it. Like I like, it's been great just like from a connecting with people like mental health, like getting out of the house, having some good conversations. Like it's just been nice to just be more active in the community, supporting the ecosystem, meeting a lot of people. It is tiring. Like for me, I find because I'm not like a natural extrovert and a lot of events tend to be in the evening because it's like after work for most people.

So you'll end up kind of doing like, you know, a relatively full day of work and then you'll go to this networking event. It kind of extends the day. A lot of those hours overlap with time that would normally be spent with like kids and wife and stuff like that. So you kind of have to balance it where I'm doing like, I can't really do more than like two events a week.

And that's already like a fairly busy week. I can't just be like doing stuff every day. People are always like, are you going to this event? You're going to this event. You know, you're the organizer of PTE. You must be going to everything. And it's like, no, like it's already a big ask just to go to the one or two that I go to each week.

but yeah, in general, it's been good, like from a lot of other, from a lot of like different aspects from a lead generations perspective, I would not say at least in the amount of time so far that I've been kind of, you know, putting into it. I can't necessarily speak like particularly highly of it.

there's a lot of reasons for that. I think, first of all, I'm just like, I'm not like a particularly sales salesy person. we were like talking before the podcast that we were like, Hey, like how we went to the expo and stuff like that. And like, I went there and there was like, A dozen or two people I knew who were like, Oh, you run a marketing agency?

Like, Oh, I didn't know that, you know, because I never really like talk about it. number two, you know, the affiliate ecosystem, I mean, it's not like on the level of maybe an SF or, you know, New York or something like that. Like a lot of people are still kind of, You know, early on in the entrepreneurship stage, they might not be ready for like marketing and growth services at the moment.

you know, so it's kind of, you know, in this in general, like it actually feels a little weird as a community organizer promoting yourself. Like you never want people to feel like they're just part of a sales funnel. You know, that's not really like the mission is bigger than that. It's bigger than me and my business.

But, you know, so it's like trying to find the right approach to. If you see an opportunity, maybe you have a private conversation with someone you go, Oh, I noticed you were looking for this. You just started this, but I'm not out there like blasting, you know, Oh, we have this new promo. We're launching this new, you know, this get by now, we don't do that, you know, so, in short, you know, it's generally been a positive influence in my life.

and I'm trying to kind of navigate like how to also make it advantageous from a business perspective at the same time. Yeah.

[00:19:24] Jay: Yeah, I mean, I, I feel the same way about the podcast. it's very easy to create something that people will come to or attend or whatever. And then, like, you realize, like, You start without like a clear plan and you kind of hope it goes in a direction and then it doesn't, but it's still kind of fine.

And you're like, all right, I've still enjoy this enough to be doing it. And it's not like lead leads aren't falling from the sky from the podcast or from where it's a different events we do. But I definitely feel, and I think. There is that happy medium though. Cause you do go to some events that are like smaller that have a bit more branding on them, but they're not obnoxious.

And there's like a, probably a good balance of like ICP targeting and like having the exact right people in the room that are at least aware of what you do. because when I used to do the podcast, how did people come back to me months later and go, I had no idea you did QA. Kind of like you with the market, you know, the event, it's like,so I started, you know, on calls that I want people to know that we do Q.

A. I will say it as part of the intro to the call. So they hear me say it when we start. So it's like there's just little things you can do along the way. But I love the idea of create a networking event. and maybe be a funnel. You know, maybe there's ways to be a little bit more targeted, but I love the concept of it.

And, yeah, somebody said,their social battery was drained the other day. And I was like, I'm going to use that every second of my life. Cause I feel the same, you know, eight or nine o'clock comes around. I'm like, dude, I gotta be home in bed. Like, I don't want to be out too late. It's a, it gets exhausting, but, all right.

So a couple more questions. what are you doing from a, you know, a dad? business owner, husband, kind of, health perspective to kind of keep yourself tuned up. I mean, we all got to be here as long as possible, especially for kids. And we're going to be able to pick our kids up and run around and stuff like, what do you do physically, mentally, whatever it is to kind of keep yourself tuned up.

Yeah.

[00:21:17] Dave: need to just like make this as easy as possible. I'm someone who relatively speaking, I enjoy working out. I mean, we all have our days where I'm just like, all right, not today. It's not going to happen. But in general, like, I'm not someone you need to like drag out to work out or activity or anything like that.

I like that. still though, I just was like, you know, like, Even just like that five to 10 minute walk to the gym or whatever it was and having to maybe like get dressed up and check in and all this stuff. Like, I just felt like it was kind of a little bit of a potential barrier on some nights and especially with the kids and everything.

So it's like, I'm going to build like a gym in my basement. And one of my sort of like, I don't know, obsessions might not be the word, but I love like trying to think about how to. Be efficient with a small space. I mean, I live in the city. I'm a row home. Like, it's not like a massive property or something like that.

so it's what, you know, how do I make a gym that has enough things for me to kind of utilize within the space in this basement, which is already like not that big and has like a big. pool table right in the middle of it. So it's like not a ton of room, but I found out, I found that I came across like these foldable squat racks that could like fold in and out of the wall.

and then, you know, if you get like some adjustable dumbbells and adjustable kettlebell and stuff like that, All of a sudden, like you got something to work with here. So I was doing, you know, I've been doing that for a while and then I recently had hired or was working with a company called, it was barbell medicine.

they do like, it's a virtual program, like personal training program. And they they create the program and they follow you along and send videos to give you tips and stuff like that. so, so that was kind of my main, that's like my main, like go to, that's how I generally follow them.

feel like, you know, like myself each day. once a week I set aside a few hours where like my wife and I play tennis as something that we like to do and used to do a lot of before we had kids, but then just like weren't really finding the time to sort of sync up. So now that They're both a little older and daycare and stuff.

We have this weekly, place as well. So I'm big into that. I feel like we eat like relatively healthy. My wife does a lot of like, she's kind of big into like health food and stuff like that. So those are, you know, smoothie everyday type thing. so that's, you know, that's where I'm at.

I've never been big. So far on like meditation or germaling or affirmations and visualizations and stuff like that. I mean, nothing against them and I'm not saying I've never messed around with them. I just haven't stuck. Hasn't stuck with me.

[00:23:36] Jay: Well, no, I mean, whatever works, dude, it doesn't matter as long as it's whatever, man, I don't know about you. I'm the same kind of way with the semi religious workout kind of thing, but I've. You feel different when you don't. And I'm like agitated and like, I feel like I'm not, like I said, you're not yourself when you don't get that in.

So, I mean, whatever it is, if it's meditation or journaling, working out, as long as you got something, all right. Last question, non business related, if you could do anything on earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:24:03] Dave: If I could do anything on Earth and I knew I wouldn't fail. And it's not a business thing,

[00:24:10] Jay: No, it can't be business related. I used to get like, you know, I would make my business the biggest thing and 

[00:24:15] Dave: Yeah, right. 

[00:24:15] Jay: out answer. So,

[00:24:17] Dave: yeah. I think, I mean, I feel like the things that stand out are I'd love to maybe like climb Kilimanjaro or something, you know, some sort of like physical challenge that I knew.

but I guess again, sort of knowing that you're not going to fail is takes a little bit of the. Of like the excitement out of it. Like actually the potential to fail the potential that it may be like a challenge that you may not succeed at is part of what makes it enticing. but I, you know, I get where you're going with this, but I would say, you know, it's been on my mind to do some sort of a mountain climb or something like that.

we've done like trekking in Nepal and stuff like that, like done the Annapurna track, so that was like 12, 000 feet or whatever, but not, you know, we're not like, we're not professionals here either. So that's something I would probably like to do. in a weird way, I don't know, maybe like run for like a political office could be kind of cool again.

I mean, probably I would hate it and probably I would regret having done it, but there is something that feels, I don't know, like intriguing about, like, I don't know, just municipal sort of positions, like, like being able to affect policy, 

[00:25:18] Jay: I think one person has said be president. So I mean, that's probably fair. and yeah, it definitely takes a little bit out of it knowing you're not going to fail, but, I mean, I think it would still be kind of fun to do some of the bucket list things. If you knew you could do it.

all right, if you want to find you, if they want to find shortlist, how do they do it?

[00:25:36] Dave: yeah, I mean, you know, should be an email David shortlist. io. No one ever does. But, you know, that would be the best place to go. I would say I am pretty active on LinkedIn, like, read all my inbox messages, you know, I post, you know, weekly or so. so Dave Schneider has CEO shortlist. There are other Dave Schneider's there, but definitely I'd respond there.

and then obviously like if you're in the Philly area and you want to come up to like a Philly tech entrepreneurs event, we host events every month, like happy hours, panels, stuff like that. Literally got an event tomorrow. so I would say, tomorrow's in June 11th. This is probably not be published, by then.

But anyway, yeah, like, I'm out of all the events.

[00:26:09] Jay: All right. And, you have a podcast too, right? Or for the, is it for your company or is it for the group? Yeah.

[00:26:15] Dave: It's for the group. Yeah. It's for the group. My company's a sponsor though. you know, but yeah, it's called, the Philly tech connect podcast. we do that once a week on Thursdays. We interview for the entrepreneur. I should have you on, reciprocate, the generosity. Thank you.

[00:26:28] Jay: appreciate it, man. let's hang out more. you know, maybe not in the evenings when we both would rather be hanging out with our kids. Maybe we'll find some other time. But, Dave, you're awesome. And thank you for being on, brother. I'll talk to you soon. All right.

[00:26:38] Dave: Thank you, Jay.

[00:26:39] Jay: Thanks, brother. See you. 

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