BONUS-Red Flags & Noble Men: A Conversation with Author/Coach Romilly Golding

Most relationships don’t break from a single incident; they slowly fade through small behaviors that feel normal until they don’t. In this bonus episode, you'll hear my conversation with author and coach Romilly Golding. She's written a book entitled 21 Red Flags: Spotting the Signs of an Unhealthy Relationship. 

In this conversation, we talk openly about some of those red flags—what unhealthy relationship dynamics actually look like in real life, how they can be subtle, and why so many good men don’t realize the impact of certain behaviors, until it’s too late.

We also explore what it means to be a "noble man" in these times. This isn’t about blame—it’s about responsibility, growth, and becoming the kind of man who creates emotional safety, trust, and real connection. Check out the Red Flags & Noble Men: A Conversation with Author/Coach Romilly Golding, episode.

Links:

Romilly's Website: romillygolding.com

Book: 21 Red Flags: Spotting the Signs of an Unhealthy Relationship (Amazon)

Transcript

Welcome And Episode Setup

Bill Simpson 0:17

And welcome to this bonus episode of the Men of the Absolutes again. Red Flags and Noble Men. A conversation with author and coach Romilly Golden. She's the author of 21 Red Flags: Spotting the Signs of an Unhealthy Relationship. She describes as the needed good fun. Romily's work is deeply rooted in lived experiences. She spent over 15 years in two controlling relationships. And it was through that journey of awakening, healing, and rebuilding that she became a trauma-informed relationship recovery coach.

Bill Simpson 0:56

Today, she helps women recognize and respond to red flags, reclaim their sense of self, and rebuild their lives after toxic relationships. In this conversation, we talk openly about some of those red flags. What unhealthy relationship dynamics actually look like in real life, how they can be subtle, and why so many good men don't realize the impact of certain behaviors until it's too late.

Bill Simpson 1:23

And just as importantly, we're gonna explore what it means to be a noble man in these times. This isn't about blame, it's about responsibility, growth, and becoming the kind of man who creates emotional safety, trust, and real connection in relationships. So whether you're in a relationship, coming out of one, or preparing for your next one, you've gotta check out this conversation. Stick around. You just might learn something. It's the Men on the Path to Love podcast. Welcome, Romilly, to Men on the Path to Love.

Speaker 2:02

Hi, Bill. Thanks so much for having me this afternoon. Really happy to be here.

Bill Simpson 2:06

I'm excited too. You've written a book called 21 Red Flags, and I definitely want to jump into that. You know, you'd mentioned when you had reached out to me that you are a trauma-informed coach as well as a relationship coach. We have these things in common. I I work at a a major health clinic here in Philadelphia the past 10 years as a mind-body educator, integrative therapy practitioner. I work a lot with trauma. I I feel that in in working with men, trauma has been the base of these toxic relationships that they've gotten into. So I I want to dive into that as well and just talk about how we can also uplift men in where we are now. A lot of man-bashing over the over the years. Um I want to start off with you telling me your story and how you got to where you are today. And where you are today.

Speaker 3:00

Yes, thank you so much. Well, like many women, I found myself kind of in midlife and uh struggling to get out of difficult relationships. So I use that term quite broadly. Um we can talk about complex relationships, high conflict relationships. People can also talk about kind of narcissistic relationships, etc. I think that term is kind of slightly overused and can lead us down into other paths. So I like to use kind of the broad term. So I'd been in um a long marriage that I found was quite controlling, actually. I couldn't really put my finger on what was going on, and then I left that marriage, and then I walked into another relationship, um, similar dynamics.

Speaker 3:44

And as I got out of those relationships, I was really querying kind of the whole dynamics. How did I get into those? Um, what was my role in those relationships? How can these relationships kind of turn so sour, especially when you are in a kind of intimate relationship with someone you're supposed to kind of love and care for each other? And it's really reflecting on what had gone wrong, my role in it, and how kind of two people coming together like that can cause quite a lot of turmoil and toxicity. And I started to really reflect upon the dynamics of those relationships, and I started to find what I thought were kind of commonalities between them.

Mapping Patterns Into 21 Red Flags

Speaker 4:31

And as I spoke more within a kind of community of women that I'm in in the UK and kind of look at different forums, also found that those commonalities mapped their experiences as well. So I started to see a kind of framework emerging with a whole panopoly of common red flags, which I then grouped together in this book. I called it 21 red flags, partly for the kind of catchphrasiness of it, but also just to pinpoint the different red flags that I'd experienced in a relationship and that my female peers had also experienced. And I wanted to pick up more on the subtle red flags because I found that that in a relationship was something that was less discussed. I think you may agree that, especially here, probably also in the US, toxic relationships and their abusive nature has come more to the forefront, especially perhaps during the COVID pandemic where people were kind of locked up together. And I don't know about the US, but in the UK we started having signs outside supermarkets saying if you know someone at home who is being controlled, etc., which I thought was a really healthy communication to arise out of that.

Speaker 5:47

But what I really wanted to focus on was I was then seeing there was communication around controlling relationships that was quite obvious and maybe quite blunt, and perhaps showed like a woman cowering in a corner with a burly guy. It would indicate that they were marginalized groups potentially, that women that perhaps it was English as their second language, etc. And that absolutely wasn't the experience that I'd had or that many of my female peers were having.

Speaker 6:13

So my focus was on more of the subtle signs. Um, the small things I call them, for example, wounding words, um, sabotage, even things like kind of eye rolls, etc. Just really small things that you can't quite put your finger on, but add up when they become like a pattern to a toxic dynamic. So that was my experience, kind of lived experience with a kind of academic lens over the top of it. Once the book was out, I started kind of coaching women around it because I wanted to have a practical approach and really, probably like you, I was really compelled from the heart to help other people because I think in a way I'd written the book that I couldn't find. Um I like reading and I I like to understand what's going on. And I remember looking in a bookshop in London, I I saw books on psychopaths, dark triads, etc. Then I saw men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and I didn't see anything in the middle really about you know relationships that weren't didn't feel awful, but were kind of off in some way.

Bill Simpson 7:22

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7:23

But I must note that my book is not um, I use kind of neutral language in the book, actually. So I don't say he, I don't say your husband. Um, I think the these toxic dynamics can apply also to potentially co-workers, colleagues, parents, families, as we know. Um and although I haven't coached men in this field yet, have coached men in terms of mindset and executive coaching, I do believe that some of these toxic dynamics can apply to men coming from from women too.

Bill Simpson 8:00

Oh, absolutely. And I want to commend you for going through that relationship and being willing to look at yourself and say, hey, what what part did I play in this? That's really the place I start with men is what are your patterns, where have you been, you know, what's keep showing up. So taking a look at yourself, that's first and foremost. I I'd like to get into some of those red flags you talk about in your book. Uh some of the obvious and then maybe the subtle things, especially the subtle, because oftentimes those get overlooked, and we don't think so much of, oh, that's a red flag. And so it's important to bring it to the surface.

Speaker 8:39

So yeah, thank you for giving me the opportunity to run through some of them. So I would say one of the kind of through lines for all of them is the sense of control, actually. And one of the female researchers that I spoke to put it really well, and she said um it can feel as though you're on like an invisible leash.

Bill Simpson 9:01

Can't quite pinpoint it, but it's there.

Subtle Control And The “Invisible Leash”

Speaker 9:04

Absolutely. So you might feel you might be at a yoga class and you feel as though you've kind of got to like rush back, or you are leaving work and you feel as though you kind of ought to, you've been conditioned to let your partner know that you're coming home, because otherwise there may be some kind of repercussion or accusations. So control and feeling like you're on a long leash is kind of one of the first, is the first chapter.

Speaker 9:28

I then talk about um intensity, kind of too much too fast. That's quite a common one. I think everyone is becoming a bit more familiar now with the notion of love bombing and kind of grandiose gestures, etc. And that's perhaps looks romantic. We've shown romance in the in the 90s. I'm showing my age, um, through rom coms, people serenading you at midnight, etc., turning up with giant balloons and flowers to your office. But in fact, there is some, there are some red flags around kind of really early intensity and putting someone on a pedestal in that way.

Bill Simpson 10:01

Yeah, I did a show on on love cons, and that's all about love bombing and and manipulation and all that.

Speaker 10:08

Absolutely. But then that's an interesting way in which we can look at ourselves. Yes, our role in that, how how it's making us feel, why we may have such a need, why we're so open to this kind of avalanche of love that is being shown to us, why we feel often such a deep need for it and kind of accept it without really thinking about this person doesn't actually know me, etc. And kind of maybe pushing back a bit.

Bill Simpson 10:37

Yeah, you want it so bad that you're willing to overlook that, and that's certainly a red flag.

Speaker 10:42

That's exactly that's exactly it, yeah. I talk about um so the the book is written in quite an accessible way, so the chapter titles have quite kind of chatty um tone. So I took talk about the roller coaster, which is a pattern of good times and bad. That might not be such a subtle red flag, actually. Um, when we're in a relationship, I found that normally good relationships, they just they roll along, actually. You're not ruminating a lot on the nature of the relationship, and you don't tend to have good patches and then an equal amount of bad patches.

Speaker 11:16

So I would say to your listeners to kind of look out for a roller coaster. In terms of, I often couldn't tell if my relationship was really great with a few bad patches, or if it was awful with some good patches. So I think this sensation of not quite knowing where you are, not feeling grounded, not really being able to have a prolonged sense of peace and harmony is is a red flag.

Bill Simpson 11:44

That makes me think of trauma bonding. And I was certainly in one of my marriages where I I just kept going for the crumbs, the the small good stuff, the tiny little things that would make me say, Oh, there she is, oh there we are, and I would just hold on because I'm thinking, oh, it's gonna she's gonna come around or whatever. And and only to have these crumbs, and and I was so desperate for the good stuff that I hung on through the bad stuff in order to stay in the relationship. Uh and it wasn't until I was made I was made aware of that that I realized, oh I I can't do this anymore.

Intensity, Love Bombing, And Self-Insight

Speaker 12:25

Yeah, that sounds really painful. And the cr the crumbs also sounds painful in terms of and again it's kind of what we what we're accepting and the standards we actually have for ourselves at at certain points in our life, which can feel quite normal, right?

Speaker 1 12:40

Yeah.

Speaker 12:41

So it's interesting in terms of now I'm kind of uh several years out of these relationships and done quite a lot of research. I mean, obviously you will be familiar with, but it really struck me when I found out that obviously we choose partners based on our childhood experiences unconsciously with a desire to potentially repair what happened to us. And that's why they feel so familiar, because at some level, the fundamental level, cellular subconscious level, we feel quite familiar within this slightly dysfunctional dynamic, with some hope that we will be able to repair it.

Bill Simpson 13:20

Yeah, and I know this world, this I'm familiar with this, even though it's not so good for me. I I can be here because I'm familiar with it. Trying to change, that's a whole different story.

unknown 13:29

Yeah.

Speaker 13:30

And I think it's it's interesting because it's so kind of counterintuitive. If we recognize that we had a childhood that wasn't great, or we had some trauma or some adverse childhood experiences in it, it doesn't seem to make sense. We are yearning for loving relationships, harmonious relationships. And it's so counterintuitive. And I think this is why people can get so frustrated with themselves that they end up in these relationships when they really, really want a loving, healthy relationship. But in fact, they're kind of repeating, echoing, mirroring the dynamics that we experienced as children. I think it's really useful to know that there is that those kind of that psychological l effect that's happening.

Bill Simpson 14:12

Yeah.

Speaker 14:12

And that can help us kind of bring awareness and break those patterns.

Bill Simpson 14:16

Yeah, and it's having grace around that. You know, that even though we have that awareness that we had a rough childhood or had those traumas, it's still those subconscious patterns are really hard to break and to have some grace and compassion for yourself in overcoming it, and that it does take time. It is a process.

Speaker 14:37

Absolutely, yeah. And then so back to some of the the other red flags. So some of the more subtle ones are having the insults, maybe more so not so subtle, but kind of wounding words and unkind tones, but it can throw us off, I think, if you're having a the relationship is okay, and then now and again there's a kind of curveball, there's a a nasty remark. If it doesn't happen that often, you can it can feel it obviously feels painful, but then people get very skilled at saying, Oh, it was just, you know, it was just words, just a joke, or you're really sensitive, or you shouldn't take it like that. But but I really do think it's a red flag because I know that in healthy relationships, you're just not going to go to that kind of bar in terms of saying something really wounding to your partner. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

The Roller Coaster And Trauma Bonds

Bill Simpson 15:26

Yeah, well I think of sarcasm in relationship, and I've seen it, and I kind of cringe when it happens when I witness it. And for me personally, I remember my my wife early on would uh just make some obvious comments. And I remember my my dad would always, if you said something obvious, he had something smart to say about it. Like you and it made me feel like I was dumb. And I remember reacting like that to my wife, you know, mimicking her and and doing the same thing my father did to me when she stated the obvious. And she called me out on it and I was able to take that in and realize how hurtful that was to her. And she'll still do it, yet I don't I just let her be obvious, you know. So what? But yeah, those those kind of things you y you don't think of them as painful. And especially I hear a lot of guys, you know, like, oh, busting your balls kind of thing. And yeah, it can be fun, yet if that other person is hurting, they have to take that in. And so, you know, she's saying, ouch, you know, that hurt, instead of saying, Oh, you're too sensitive and putting it on her and kind of like, you know, gaslighting, that's gonna whittle away over time.

Speaker 16:43

Yeah, it does definitely whittle away over time. Yeah. Um other subtle red flags, I have, for example, uh constant sense of urgency. Things must be done now, especially in uh, you know, the days today's world where we're kind of texting a lot. So often a lot of texts, a kind of sense that you need to that you're at someone's beck and call.

Bill Simpson 17:08

Oh, you didn't respond to me at at work or at yeah, where are you?

Speaker 17:12

That then kind of you can then receive in kind of a barrage of like, where are you, what are you doing? And I think then that can tip into accusations territory, which is also a red flag, but just a kind of sense of urgency that you can't quite that also the opposite to harmony, urgency in terms of things that need to get done. And I think underlying that is a just a sense of dominance, actually, that you'll feel the time is not always your own, and you're being kind of subtly dominated in some way by this other person. You need to be accountable for where you are, you need to respond to them. Um, it can also go hand in hand with catastrophizing, etc. So this just sense of this unsettled sense of urgency, it's quite hard to pinpoint, but I do think it's a red flag and it takes up a whole chapter.

Bill Simpson 18:01

Yeah, and it makes it hard to trust when you're in that situation. You how do you trust somebody that's constantly like micromanaging you?

Speaker 18:09

Yeah, I think also in terms of like just like the control is a is a through line. I think often in these relationships there's a sense of asymmetry that someone really has a kind of dominant upper hand in some way. Either they are kind of domineering in their bearing or it's all it's always kind of their way or the highway.

Bill Simpson 18:30

Yeah, and I've seen too in relationship where couples they argue with each other, they yell and scream, and then 30 minutes later they're having makeup sex and everything's great. But if you have one person that's more aggressive and the other's passive, then you have that imbalance. And I think that's where that power struggle is, that control uh mismatch of the balance in the relationship. You know, if you have two more passive people, they tend to get along pretty well. But when you have those opposites, it's really difficult.

Speaker 19:00

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think this is the danger actually, because sometimes we can get in these relationships and we and they feel quite intense by nature. And I think often we can be conditioned to think we're really passionate or we're really fiery. I think if there's a sense of like intensity there and they also kind of have the bad times, you can have two kind of wonderful Latin temperaments and they're equally balanced, and there's equal kind of plate smashing, maybe. But um, but I think as you said, if they're if the dynamics are imbalanced, then it's just um then it's not it's not healthy.

Bill Simpson 19:34

Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 19:36

Um another red flag that I found that's quite unusual, but I found a lot among my kind of the research that I did was something I call little rules.

Bill Simpson 19:48

Tell me more.

Speaker 19:49

Yeah, so I actually realized that I was keeping track in one of my relationships of what made the other person happy. Not keeping score, but writing writing down the little rules, little preferences, the things that I shouldn't shouldn't do. And I thought it was just um a way of operating in the relationship, in fact. But I did realise afterwards these these were rules that I should follow, and there was some kind of consequence, such as uh sulking or stonewalling or some kind of punishment if I didn't follow through the rules. And I found other women had similar experiences, like having to fold all the laundry in a certain way, special way of cooking breakfast, can it be certain ways of dressing or not dressing, but just the presence of little rules, and once again it's a controlling mechanism, it's a kind of dominance mechanism. And it was yeah, it was prevalent in all of the relationships.

Wounding Words, Sarcasm, And Respect

Bill Simpson 20:49

And it's hard to feel free in your relationship when you have all these rules, these many rules. And I can see how it could be challenging in like in one hand, you want to be able to please your partner and and be there for them and and do things that appeal to them, yet uh you don't want it to be to where that's all you're doing and you're doing it for them and you're you're giving yourself away, you know, and you're losing yourself in the relationship.

Speaker 21:18

And I think you know, there's a difference between, you know, if you're with someone who's a vegan and they don't like you cooking meat in the kitchen or something like that, that's absolutely fine.

Speaker 1 21:26

Right.

Speaker 21:26

But then oft often these rules are kind of pedantic or arbitrary, or often they're double standards and there's no rules for you know, there's no rules for them. So that was just kind of a mini red flag that emerged. And um yeah, so I do literally have 21 red flags. So they go through um insults, criticism, mood, silence, sabotage, um, accusations, rehashing, dredging up the past. I dedicate a whole chapter to that as well. And I I think it is a real red flag. Like when someone is trying to dredge up aspects from your past or what you were like in your past, especially if they weren't present in your past. Kind of digging things up as a metaphorical stick to beat you with, actually. And I find that this kind of ties into quite a twisted dynamic that can happen where these people try and define who you are, they're telling you who you are. And there's no room for you to grow, to change, to say, well, I used to be like that, but I'm not anymore. And I find that the reason that these people do that is to keep you adhering to their sense of who, who they think you are.

Bill Simpson 22:43

I've definitely been through that in relationship. I felt that I was being defined and identified, and I'm saying, no, no, no, this is where I'm going, this is how I'm growing. And no, no, no, no, no. You, you know, you're this person back here. And I fell for it, you know, until I I woke up. That that is definitely a red flag.

Speaker 23:02

Yep. And it can be things that you may have done in the past, like if you had too much to drink at a wedding once, then it can be used, like, you know, Emma, Emma, she she loves a drink, or you know, and you say, Oh, that was only once, and I was tired or I hadn't eaten. And it just gets all these little aspects of your character kind of taken out of context and used to build up a narrative of you that is often um quite pejorative. And this I think is also the through line that happens.

Speaker 23:31

And I find this is the most difficult thing to shake off. It's like a kind of bulldog, kind of gripping at your trouser leg. You know, they are absolutely determined to define you and identify you as being in a certain way. And this is why I think often some of these arguments that you can get into in these relationships, you feel as though you're in the dock and you're trying to explain who you who you really are, that things aren't like that. And I think that's also a massive red flag, and that you just can't get through. There's no sense of actual real dialogue.

Bill Simpson 24:04

Sure. And and also bringing up the past, uh, maybe there was something you did within the relationship. My wife and I have a 24-hour rule. So we if something happens, if we don't talk about it, bring it up in 24 hours, we eat it and throw it away. Because you know, you'll go, well, two weeks ago you did X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, I I don't even remember what I had for breakfast, much less two weeks ago. So bringing up that over and over again just it gets you off center. You're really hard to stay grounded in in that kind of environment.

Speaker 24:37

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So those are the some of the red flags. Hopefully, you can see that I'm trying to pinpoint some of the more subtle dynamics that can happen. But I would say that many of them are rooted in the work of John and Julie Gottman from the Gottman Institute and their theory around the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse.

Bill Simpson 25:01

Yeah, I'm big uh big fans of of the Gottmans, for sure.

Urgency, Micromanaging, And Dominance

Speaker 25:04

Yeah, absolutely. So they theorise that the presence of criticism, stonewalling, defensiveness, and contempt. I would say that many of these red flags can be linked back to contempt, unfortunately, which we can really start to sense when we're in these relationships.

Bill Simpson 25:21

Biggest indicator that the relationship's in real trouble. Yeah.

Speaker 25:25

Yeah. So it's the same with the criticism, the stonewalling, which is such a red flag, and defensiveness, which is as you said at the beginning, are we willing to change? Are we willing to look at ourselves? Are we willing to work on this space?

Bill Simpson 25:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you know, this leads me to you had mentioned when you reached out about talking about men, the noble man. And a lot of times I say these things that we may exhibit as men aren't really our fault per se. It's how we've been conditioned over and over again. And I think we're now just moving into where we're getting that balance of masculine and feminine, and men are starting to to catch on to that. Although I I get labeled as a feminized man. And and I'm like, no, it's not about that. It's about creating that balance, you know, keeping your your masculine qualities and adding to that the more feminine qualities if you were, you know, vulnerability, empathy, and and that kind of thing. So I I want to open up the door to talk about this uh from uh a woman's perspective and and your perspective of of uh how you mentioned the noble man.

Speaker 26:37

Yes, so I will caveat this in that it's a term that I've used, and I think it's an um it's an emergent term and an emergent ideal that perhaps we can all collectively share, right, across this space in which we're working. Because I thought so deeply about uh kind of why you know the notion of like toxic masculinity, what is leading men to act in these kind of uh domineering, dominant ways in relationships. It feels as though part of that is a conditioned response. Also looking at some of the backgrounds of the men that I was in relationship with, but also that my female peers and research group have been in, like many of the women, subject to um abuse and violations and violence and oppression and repression as well.

“Little Rules” And Losing Yourself

Speaker 27:37

So you can understand that perhaps there's even less of an emotional space and a supportive emotional landscape for men to learn how to show up in a relationship and discuss and show and share feelings in a healthy way. Because I would say in in these relationships where these difficult dynamics emerge, everyone is acting out of maladaptive coping mechanisms, right? Whoever's being kind of dominant and controlling, and whoever is not being able to kind of assert themselves or set boundaries, or in my case, you know, communicate properly and emotionally. So I thought, well, what would be the solution to this? How can we all kind of move forward in humanity? Right. And what is what is needed? And I suppose as a woman in midlife, I'm now more, you know, working in this space. I'm now surrounded by oceans of awake, aware, wise women setting up circles and community and changing careers and being supportive. And I can just see that spreading through into events that are happening in communities. But the events I'm going to are led by women, and women are turning up, and they are beautiful spaces, and they are deep and they're vulnerable. But my question is this is why I was kind of reaching out to you, is like, where are the men?

Bill Simpson 29:09

Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 29:11

And why are there no men in this in these spaces?

Bill Simpson 29:14

I think again it goes back to our conditioning and how uncomfortable it is. I mean, we can go to a sporting event and hug each other and I love you, man. You know, we can do all that, but uh get get a m in a in a room in a circle and try to talk about their feelings. Um that's that's a challenge. Um I I'm a part of a website called men'sgroup.com. And it's a wonderful site where men can gather, it's it's all virtual. Uh I'm a facilitator on that particular website, but all kinds of subjects that men can talk to, specific groups that they can get into. And uh it's just amazing seeing them really pour themselves out and really be there for each other, you know, peer support as well as facilitator support.

Bill Simpson 30:02

That's just one little piece of it, but that's an example of uh where men can can find that. And it's just amazing when when we get a new person on, we welcome them and they tell their little story and to see them evolve just by having someone that they can talk about their stuff, to see that, oh man, there are a bunch of guys on here that are porn addicts, you know, like I'm not alone here. And that in itself, just taking that step just to be there and have that peer support, uh it's just amazing how that really helps them grow and feel more safe in being vulnerable. And they start to develop empathy just by hearing others and knowing what the rules of the group are and that kind of thing.

Bill Simpson 30:44

So that's one example, and that's my big question too. Where are the men? Because I'm choosing to do this. This is my my love mission to help men on the path to love. Because it doesn't just help men, it helps everyone. And it's not just men with these issues, it's men and women, everybody has these issues. It's just part of our conditioning has made it really hard for us to gather in groups like that, like you mentioned with uh with women.

Bill Simpson 31:09

So that's why I'm here is to try to launch that, and that's my mission and my calling for the rest of my life is to be here, be a voice for men and a and a safe place for men to come to, uh, and not to be bashed, you know, because they are controlling or because they're doing these things. If they're open to hearing about how they might be controlling, how they need to be more vulnerable, how they could use empathy, that's all you can ask is that they are willing and open to grow.

Bill Simpson 31:39

And unfortunately, a lot of these men that if you want to use the word toxic masculinity or these men that are so dug in their tradition and conditioning that they're not opening to this. How are you gonna crack that nut? You know what I mean? Because they're not really interested. They're fine in where they are. And sometimes they'll hit the bottom and everything with the relationships, but they don't see that it's part of themselves. My hope is that men can take that time to look at themselves and see what they have brought to the table and how they could possibly change not to be feminized so we can all all get along and and connect in relationship.

Speaker 32:14

So beautifully put, yeah, thank you so much. Yeah.

Speaker 1 32:20

Yeah.

Speaker 32:20

Because I was thinking that I think there's two things going on. There is, I don't know how it is in the USA, but definitely in I think in the UK, there is perhaps like a class aspect at play where quite a lot of this is kind of open to liberal classes and cacao ceremonies and meditation are kind of opening up in in that kind of space, but that's not always accessible to everybody.

Speaker 32:46

And I was also thinking, so the notion of the noble man was like, you know, where are the men? And maybe there needs to be more kind of male figures and leaders embodying this kind of noble masculinity. You're obviously one of them, and we need more men that are kind of celebrated and championed for their male qualities, their leadership, their strength, but also their ability to um you know to kind of hold sense of vulnerability as well. And I was thinking where, you know, where are they and where can they be positioned in in society kind of more prominently so that other men can see that it's okay to be like this?

Dredging Up The Past And Identity Traps

Bill Simpson 33:35

Yeah, and and unfortunately, I'm I'm kind of slight in in stature. You know, I'm a small guy, and some guys would see that, you know, oh, he's a feminized man, like I mentioned. Um but if someone like The Rock or some big athlete is saying the same stuff, oh, I can believe this guy because he's big and masculine. Um but I contain that masculine I can and I honor the the the the feminine qualities as well because it's all about balance, it's all about us coming together for each other versus trying to hold our own and how are you gonna connect if you're doing that? And my question to a lot of the guys, you know, that may be in that kind of toxic masculinity mindset that do come to see me, it's giving them grace, you know, to say, hey, this is not your fault, this is how you were raised, this is how men have been conditioned. And, you know, give yourself some credit for just having this conversation.

Bill Simpson 34:35

Those little small conversations you can have in daily life, whether it's somebody that, you know, at the yoga studio or wherever you are at the grocery store and you can make that comment, because one of the biggest factors with men is that they don't feel like they get the recognition they deserve in relationship. It's always what they're doing wrong, what they're not doing right, and instead of, hey, I appreciate you taking the trash out today. Something as simple as that. So yeah, giving that recognition helps because when all they hear is bashing, then they're gonna withdraw. They're not gonna be open to be vulnerable, they're gonna guard themselves. So it's acknowledging that as well, that side.

Speaker 35:17

I heard something quite pithy on um social media, and it was men need um admiration and women need adoration. And I thought that was actually quite an quite a neat, yeah, um, neat little summary, actually, with some truth in it, to be honest.

Bill Simpson 35:34

Yeah, I mean I think we all need our ego stroked at at some level, and we need to also on a deeper level to feel validated, to feel seen and heard. And I hear that often with women that they just don't feel seen and heard in the relationship. And the guys are saying the same thing, but they don't even know how to say it. You know, they're experiencing the same thing, they just don't know how to say it. So there's that disconnect there. I feel like we could we could keep going on and on and on. What were you gonna say?

Speaker 36:02

Yeah, I was gonna say, so with your work, because obviously you're so close to the ground in this and you're working directly with men's groups and in, I imagine, you know, the the centers that you mentioned. So how are you reaching out to is there kind of community outreach as well, or is it kind of one-directional in that people come to your centers and your therapy, etc.?

Bill Simpson 36:25

Well, it uh in terms of the health center, we're an integrative health care center. So we have behavioral health as well as primary care, dental, and as a mind-body practitioner, I wear a lot of different hats, a lot of different modalities within that. So oftentimes I'll be referred by one of the therapists to work with any patient. I I work with men. So that's one way they can also refer themselves at the health clinic. But I'm not there to do specific relationship work.

Gottman’s Four Horsemen And Contempt

Bill Simpson 36:55

I also have, you know, this podcast, Men on the Path to Love, right on Substack, just getting the word out, first and foremost, to just let men hear what their alternatives are and that there are safe places to go to get support, whether it's through relationship coaching therapy, their place of worship, whatever, to take that step to get some sort of support and to move forward. You know, because I tell you, I was stuck in those conditions and being divorced three times, I learned each time I don't I don't have any regrets that I went through all that because I'm so happily married now and it just keeps getting better and better. I'm living proof that you can do this. And it's a wonderful way to experience personal growth by being in a healthy relationship. And you can't get any better than that.

Speaker 37:40

So agreed. Yeah, I'm just starting that journey.

Bill Simpson 37:44

Yeah. Well, I wish you wish you the best in in your journey. As we wrap up here, any final words you'd like to say before we we head out?

Speaker 37:54

Yeah, I'm just really thankful for being able to come along and have this conversation and really thankful for the work that you're doing and the ripple effects it's obviously having in the community.

Bill Simpson 38:04

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your your inquiry to to be on the show. If someone were wanting to get your book or get in touch with you, how would they go about doing that?

Speaker 38:15

Yeah, absolutely. So the book's out on Amazon now, so worldwide. They can look up 21 red flags spotting the signs of an unhealthy relationship, or they might be able to remember my name, which is Romilly Golding, and I can be found at Romillegolding.com. There's two L's in Romilly.

Bill Simpson 38:33

All right. And I will have that contact information in my show notes so folks can access that as well.

Speaker 38:39

Thanks so much, Bill.

Bill Simpson 38:40

I wish you a great rest of your day. Maybe we can talk again soon.

Speaker 38:44

I'd love that. Thanks so much, Bill.

Bill Simpson 38:46

You're welcome. And that's a wrap for this bonus episode of the Men on the Path to Love podcast: Red Flags and Noble Men. A conversation with author and coach Romilly Goldman. I'm Bill Simpson, your host. Thank you for listening. And thanks again to Romily for joining me from across the video. You'll find links to Romilly's book and website in the show. And if you get something into listening to this podcast, or you know someone who might benefit by listening, then please share the link to this podcast and share the love. And until next time, keep your heart open and stay on the path to love.