BONUS: What Happens When Men Finally Talk?: An Introduction to MensGroup

A lot of men have people in their lives—but very few have a place where they can speak honestly about what they’re going through without feeling judged, embarrassed, or expected to have it all figured out.

For a little over a year, I’ve had the privilege of facilitating conversations like these through MensGroup. I’ve seen what can happen when men put down the armor, discover they’re not alone, and begin supporting one another through the real stuff of life.

In this week’s episode of the Men on the Path to Love podcast, I’m joined by MensGroup Community Manager Jim Heidema for a conversation about why these spaces matter, what happens inside a men’s group, and what men can gain when they stop trying to handle everything alone. Check out the What Happens When Men Finally Talk?: An Introduction to MensGroup, episode.

Link: MensGroup

Transcript

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Bonus Intro And What To Expect

Bill Simpson 0:05

Hi, and welcome to the Men on the Path to Love podcast. Bonus Episode. What happens when men finally talk? An introduction to Men's Group. I'm Bill Simpson, your host. In this bonus episode, taking a look inside men's group.org, an online men's group with community manager Jim Heidema. Find out what happens when men have a place where they can put down their armor and talk honestly about what they're going through. And get genuine support from other men. Jim supports the facilitators who make these conversations possible. And he's here because he knows this work matters. And in full disclosure and transparency, I'm the facilitator for men's group, and I do not get paid for it. It's something I believe in and what I feel I've been called to do. So stick around. You just might learn something. It's the Men on the Path to Love podcast.

Meet Jim And His Backstory

Bill Simpson 1:07

Welcome, Jim, to Men on the Path to Love.

Jim Heidema 1:10

Pleasure to be here, Bill. Thank you for inviting me.

Bill Simpson 1:13

Sure, man. Great to have you. I've been wanting to have Men's Group on for a while to share with my listeners. And before we get into men's group, I just want to start off with you telling us a little bit about you and how you ended up here at Men's Group.

Jim Heidema 1:30

I'm going through uh a transition right now. I'm uh turning 80 this year and I become a gym rat. I'm going to the gym six days a week with a coach, uh trying to get in the best shape I can. So I'm focused on that.

Bill Simpson 1:43

That's awesome.

Jim Heidema 1:44

I just finished my 14th book. So uh I'm in 11 languages at this moment. And I've been an international trainer, uh, presenter and coach around the world. I've done 55% of the world and about 175,000 people so far I've interacted with. Wow. So at this point, I don't feel I'm slowing down. I sort of feel like I'm speeding up. But my son and daughter-in-law bought the men's group uh from a really amazing gentleman by the name of Sean, who created this seven or eight years ago. They then brought me in to work with facilitators uh such as yourself to add value, to remove obstacles, to share best practices. And uh so that's where I am. And uh I'm quite enjoying the men's group. It's a pretty impressive organization.

Honoring Sean’s Mission And Safety

Bill Simpson 2:34

Yeah, I'd say. Uh, and it's just been such a pleasure being a part of it. And and you mentioned Sean, who started Men's Group, and he had quite a vision and passion for getting men together. How are you honoring what Sean created while engaging your son and daughter-in-law's uh vision of men's group?

Jim Heidema 2:58

I think the three of us, my son, daughter-in-law, and myself, all honor, respect, and continue Sean's mission without question. And what I really like about the men's group, you know, men are being one in here, being one, is they're reluctant to really let their guard down and share what they're truly feeling. Uh, for some reason they feel it weakens them uh when they do that. And uh I think what Sean did was create an environment uh where men have a voice and it's secure and they're listened to. And probably the most important thing I'm beginning to realize, and I've only been with the organization a couple months now, is they're being heard. And I don't know how often men get are heard, you know, and so it's a safe place for them to let their guard down, be surrounded by men who are are probably or have gone through similar circumstances, and uh can offer them a same safe place that they receive some commonality and some shared advice and and uh feel that uh they're okay, that they there's a path. And I'm sure you've probably seen that. I have no doubt you've seen men who join you that are broken, fractured, and then over time they calm down and they get their act back together and they feel they have focused again. So that that we're not walking away from that for a moment. We're not, you know, this is not an organization where we're trying to sell anybody anything. It's where we want to create a supportive environment.

Bill Simpson 4:33

So

What Men’s Group Is And Offers

Bill Simpson 4:34

that kind of leads us into the person out there thinking, well, what the hell is this men's group you're talking about? Um give us a little bit of, you know, you've mentioned some, but give us a little bit of of an idea of saying somebody that's listening that maybe is interested in a men's group, doesn't really know what men's groups are or what it entails. Uh maybe they're skeptical, not sure if they really want to do something like this. Just give us a uh an overview of men's group and um some words to encourage men to to give us a try.

Jim Heidema 5:08

Well, it it's a it's a significant organization with uh well over 2,000 members currently. Uh we have uh in excess of 40 facilitators offering 50 sessions a week. So there's sessions about all kinds of topics that a man might be challenged with. And so it's not a therapy. We're not a therapeutic organization, we're a support organization, and it's very inexpensive to join. You know, if a man were to feel that they're facing, well, there's all kinds of it, you know, there's uh one of our popular ones is No More Mr. Nice Guy, which people may be aware of that book. Uh, there's a there's a number of uh sessions around divorce, around uh dealing with uh children, we're dealing with uh uh dependencies, all sorts of issues. So there's there's a wide variance of topics that people can sit in on. And um I think what uh it offers to uh uh an individual, much that I said a little earlier, is a place where they feel that they're not alone. I think that's it. I think when men are dealing with what they're dealing with, they feel alone, and it's probably not something they easily share with their family or their friends, but they come into these sessions and they're all different hours on different days, and they can choose what best fits for them. And uh they can sit in and hear gentlemen that may be going through the same things and have found ways out of it to improve. So uh it gives them that sort of safety, uh, where they don't, you know, some men come and they don't show us their picture, but they're there listening and they participate. Some they're all video calls, of course. And so some men get on the video call and they have their camera on and they participate, some don't say a word, and that's okay. Depends what you need at that moment. And uh it's interesting, a number of uh therapists actually refer to us as a place that supports people in their process.

Support Versus Therapy Explained

Bill Simpson 7:21

Yeah, I wonder, and speaking of therapists, I want sorry to interrupt you there, but yeah, a lot of guys think therapy, you know, they don't want anything to do with it and keeps it at at arm's length. And you stress that this is not therapy, this is support. What's the difference between that? Do you think?

Jim Heidema 7:40

Well, you know, and um I have in my past been with a therapist. Moby and I went through marriage counseling at one point, and uh, you know, the therapist will tell you you do this, you do that, you try something else, whatever. We don't do that. We we don't offer therapeutic advice. Uh so the facilitator facilitates you're one of those. You create the environment, uh, you help me move things along, you invite people to participate, you clarify, you ask for clarification when they might you might not understand, they may not understand. And so in a supportive environment, it's where other men share how they dealt with it. And so what it does, you could look at it, I guess, as self-therapy for the man, where I've seen I've sat in a number of sessions now, and you see men actually sort of open up. I've seen some men be very unsettled when they're first in the session, and then they seem to calm down where they realize, yeah, this is okay. I'm hearing what I need to hear. Other people have dealt with it. This is how they dealt with it. I may or may not do what they're doing. But so therapy is a whole different world, which we're not in. Support is one that we're firmly established in because our men are just amazing. The facilitators are just, I'm so impressed with them. And I've met all of them now. And they're incredible gentlemen, such as yourself, who really care about what they're doing and work hard to create that environment where men feel safe, yeah, listen to and heard. Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty wonderful organization. I feel really feel honored to be part of it.

Bill Simpson 9:17

Yeah, well, I'm glad you made that distinction between therapy and the support, uh, because I've noticed as a facilitator, yeah, they hear other guys' stories and they go, hey, I'm not alone here, you know, and like you said, and that makes them feel safe, makes them not feel so alone in the world, understanding other men are going through it too. And another side of that is when someone shares their story and they can relate to it that they share. And that makes them feel good as well because they're able to support someone else, not just get support.

Jim Heidema 9:55

I've seen that uh a number of occasions now in some of the sessions where someone with some reluctance lets their guard down and shares their, you know, what they're going through. And then you just you actually see other men in the session rally around that individual and say, it's okay, you know, I've been there, hang in there, you can do this, whatever. I've so such words of encouragement and support. It's amazing to see, and that's the men. And I think that's because you as facilitators, you create this environment where uh people feel they can share. They feel they have uh the right to participate without risk. And I think that's the other side of it too, is is that's a concern that I think I'm seeing in a number of men is they feel if they let their guard down, they're taking a risk. You you remove that risk. And it's really interesting. I see with the facilitators, what's so amazing too is uh they don't judge. Whatever's being said, they don't judge. I've never I've yet to hear a uh facilitator say, well, why are you doing that? or that's stupid, or you're foolish, or what never. They usually say, Yeah, it sounds like it's a rough rock road you're on.

Bill Simpson 11:11

Yeah, that's our job is to support, not to judge, not to advise. And sometimes, you know, as a coach myself, uh I will get asked advice. And since you asked, yes, I'll share a thought. Um, but it's not the it's not the focus. It's not me to be there to coach you and focus, uh, tell you what to do and that kind of thing. Um that's not our job. We're here to support you. And if I can't support you, or if someone else in the group can't support you, I will support you at some level. You know, and that's the beauty of group too. And I I found this in my own healing journey when I first was in a group, um, and again, not feeling alone, you know, feeling safe, and realizing, and I remember the facilitator saying just what I said to you, you know, if you can't get support in the group, then I can support you. There you'll always get support, no matter how much opposition there might there may be in the group, because that does happen too, right?

Jim Heidema 12:13

Absolutely. And you raised a point too that uh worth mentioning is that uh, you know, a good number of our facilitators are coaches, such as yourself, Bill. And we don't want you to leave that behind. We don't want you to become a robot and just be a voice. Right. You know, if if it's appropriate, either you're asked or you feel it would add value, then coach, then say, this is what I've seen. This is an idea you might consider, whatever. Of course, you know, we're humans, and and so I think that's part of your skill set. You know, you've got knowledge, skills, and abilities in your toolbox, if you like, and you pull them out when they're appropriate. And I really like what you've just said, and I I will give some thought to that. Is that you know, when no one else is encouraging, when no one else is supporting, that's the job of the facilitator to be that person. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Bill Simpson 13:09

Yeah. Yeah, because you never want to leave anyone feeling alone in that situation.

Jim Heidema 13:14

Um hanging, leave them hanging out there. Yeah, yeah.

Bill Simpson 13:18

Because that the whole reason for being there is getting support in where they are. Um and whether that person that's in the group, your co-member or what have you, if they've never had that exact same experience, um, they can at least support you in saying, man, that must be you know really hard. I can't imagine what you're going through, you know, versus oh man, you know, no, I've never done that. Uh, you know, I can't relate to that. And you know, so on.

Trust Recession And Confidentiality

Jim Heidema 13:44

You know, it's uh the world has become noisier, you know, and uh it's become messy with the advent of politicians who lie to us and lie to us, with the advent of uh AI, which is producing all sorts of garbage and noise out there, right? All the scams that are going on. I'm sure for many individual men and women, it's become a very confusing world. And well, I'm I don't I'm not here selling books, but the most recent book I wrote about the trust recession that's going on, and people are becoming very insular. They're they're closing their group around themselves of who they will talk to and who they will share with. You know, I I get phone calls, you get phone calls. If I get a phone call from a number, I don't know, I don't answer. I would never have done that in the past. I know. Yeah, now if I don't recognize a number, if it doesn't show up with a name that I recognize, I don't answer. I put it to voicemail and then I look at it. And, you know, and you look at any social media out there, and uh you wonder, is it true? Am I really seeing? I mean, I can take your picture and your voice, and I can produce a video that's better than the one we're having at this moment.

Bill Simpson 14:58

Yeah.

Jim Heidema 14:59

And you can't tell the difference. And so I think that's further complicating it for men. I think men are finding it harder to break through that. And so when they look at an organization like, you know, men'sgroup.org, I mean, and they say, well, is this gonna be an organization that's gonna take advantage of me? Are they gonna try to sell me something? Are they gonna sell my information? Like we don't record our video calls. Uh those that's confidential, that never, and uh, we we're very careful to protect what's going on. And we're not selling anything at all. You know, we're very, very careful about it. Now, you as a coach, if you have a client, uh uh, you know, one of some someone not a client, but someone who's in your support group, and they want to reach out and spend time with you professionally, of course.

Bill Simpson 15:48

That's a different story. They're making the move to reach out to me. I'm not I'm not soliciting my services to you.

Jim Heidema 15:55

That's right. That's right. So, so in this noisy world, it's even harder for men to make these decisions. So, in the middle of all of that, and you try to make sense of your life, and maybe you're going through a divorce or you're having trouble communicating, or your child won't talk to you, or you've got a dependency issue, or whatever the issue may be, how do you make a decision to join something where you're going to let your guard down? How do you make that decision? And I think what I see the beauty of this is of all the many organizations out there, there's no judgment within an organization. We realize people, everybody's walking their own path. And if we can, in this supportive environment of the men's group, lessen the load, lighten the load, that's a pretty noble thing to do.

Bill Simpson 16:44

Absolutely. And understanding that confidentiality is a big part of men's group, helping to keep people feel safe, um, knowing that going into it, I think it's really important, especially with what's going on out here today. So I'm glad you made that distinction.

Jim Heidema 17:02

Well, and I don't, you know, for any man who's listening to this, try

Real Transformations Through Shared Stories

Jim Heidema 17:06

us out. Come and just go on the site and look at what people are saying. Come and play for a little bit and figure out whether it's where you want to be. What you will find, and because I think we've got incredibly talented facilitators, and we've got such a variance of sessions uh with variance of topics, you'll probably find something that will lighten your loan.

Bill Simpson 17:31

Absolutely. I mean, there's some really deep topics in there that I can imagine men being terrified to look at or think they're all alone in porn addiction, or you know, being uh abused as a man, uh things like that that our conditioning has kept us hiding. And this is an opportunity to see that, hey man, you're not alone. This stuff happens, and we're here to support you.

Jim Heidema 17:57

Yeah. I mean, I've heard some stories that just there was a man in a session recently uh who lost his a plane crashed into his house. He lost his house, lost his wife and two of his kids.

Bill Simpson 18:11

Wow.

Jim Heidema 18:12

And he was he'd been in the men's group for a bit, and this ban was rebounding. He was getting on with life, he was getting through it. And he talked about how the support he had of the people around him in men's group who just rose to the challenge and you know, beside the sessions would email him and phone him and how are you doing and what's going on and whatever. And there's some incredible men up there when given the opportunity to help each other, they just step up. And I see I've seen that uh you know so often. I've seen it in every session where someone will say something and it's heartbreaking to hear it.

Bill Simpson 18:50

Sure.

Jim Heidema 18:51

But men just rally around them. Yeah.

Bill Simpson 18:54

It's it's amazing, man. And you know, I was thinking about one of one of the members in in my group, because I focus on it's called finding love after breakup or divorce, but I focus on rebuilding their lives and relationships after breakup and divorce. And one individual comes to mind where he was just in this horrible roller coaster relationship, loved the woman, but it was just just toxic. And that and from his ex-wife almost losing his home, almost being I mean, on the verge of being homeless. And to see the struggle in that moment to six months later or however long it was, to see that he was sold the house, he got this, he got that, he found he's dating, he's not, you know, doing all these things that have like totally turned his life around. And to witness that, I mean, it's just it's just amazing. And and seeing the other guys support him through the struggle and then acknowledge him through the victory of that. That's just kind of the process of men's group as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Divorce Recovery And Lived Experience

Bill Simpson 20:05

You know, and I think about because of most of my listeners are rebuilding after uh breakup or divorce, what do you think that they would find in men's group that they couldn't get anywhere else?

Jim Heidema 20:18

That's a really good question. I I think it's just what it is, it's uh the outlet is the the difference. I think that I think when you go into a therapeutic session, if you're seeking uh uh coaching, guidance, whatever, there's an expectation that you have to share everything. And there's an expectation that uh there's going to be some judgment. Uh whether it's judgment, I hope it's not from the therapist, but there certainly will be self-judgment going on. And I think that uh the message of men's group, which its strength is it's okay. What you're going through is okay. And the next part of that is you will be okay. Because there'll be people in that group who've gone through similar circumstances. And I think that's the difference, is you go in a therapeutic session talking about some things that are happening to you. And the therapist probably is never uh maybe technically, educationally, they know how it works, but they certainly have not experienced it firsthand. Where you you're therapy, you're you're where you go into a men's group, you're surrounded by men who have experienced it firsthand. And maybe even your your uh facilitator has as well. So they know how real it is. It's not it's not a therapeutic discussion, it's uh my God, my world's uh ending here, and I don't know what to do. And people say, Yeah, I've been there, ten that exactly. And And then they say, Well, I this is what I did. And and I guess the other thing that Men's Group does, it gives time for men to heal. Like there's no rush. You know, and I encourage men to reach out to us because it really is a noble profession that we're in, I think, of creating that environment where people can heal. And I think that uh by us creating this environment, men have time, time to get through it, to process it. I don't know, there were periods in my life where things have been messy. I wasn't great at processing unless I reached out to people, you know.

Bill Simpson 22:39

I'm someone who's lived experience. People who listen to this podcast know I've been through three divorces, and that's why I do the work that I do, because I'm in an amazing relationship right now with my wife for almost 18 years, and I've lived it, I've studied it, you know. I I I'm on both sides of that. And that's the beauty of men's group. You get that lived experience support. And I wanted to say too, and you mentioned this earlier, but just wanted to reiterate that some men come in and just listen. And that's okay. Because just hearing somebody else's story again helps you feel that you're not alone in the world. And that you can carry on your day-to-day and know that other people in this world are going through it. And just by listening, you're gonna get something out of that. And maybe if you're up to it at some point you'll feel confident enough or just vulnerable enough to share. And that's growth in itself, just to be able to do that. But knowing that you don't have to.

Jim Heidema 23:46

Yeah, it you raise a really interesting point there, Bill. Some men feel they have to suffer in silence. Yeah. Some some members say, you know, this is my plight in life. I'm my life's messy, it's horrible, and I deserve it.

Bill Simpson 24:03

Or we've been conditioned that no, you handle this on your own.

Jim Heidema 24:07

Yeah, oh yeah, sense of it.

Bill Simpson 24:08

I don't need anybody else's help. I can get through this. So thank you very much.

Jim Heidema 24:13

Yeah, no, and uh, you don't have to suffer alone. And this this is a time for men who are going through these difficult times to reach out and be supported and find an environment where people can relate to you and you can work through it. Unless you've got serious mental challenges, I think most of us can recover from circumstance. Sure. You know, there's a quote I really like, which is uh, I refuse to be held hostage by circumstance.

Bill Simpson 24:41

Ah, I love that.

Jim Heidema 24:43

You know, yeah, you know, and so and I'm an emotional guy, so I'm not I'm not afraid to get and let my guard down and share what I can do. But well, I drive my friends crazy with it. But anyways, um, I I think that you don't have to do it alone. If you're a man going through a challenge, don't, don't, don't adopt that philosophy that I have to be brave and I have to be strong and uh you know I have to figure this out myself. No, come and join us and just be in the company of people who have been through it and care about you. That's the other thing I've seen, which is really impressive. I've seen uh the love that exists within the groups. Like I've just I've seen people interact when people are sharing whatever, and you can just it's so obvious that many of these men really care about the other men in the group. And I see it often too when they gather together in the beginning, that sort of joy they had to be with one another, you know, because probably in their messy lives, this is the only calm spot.

Bill Simpson 25:42

Exactly.

Jim Heidema 25:44

You know, which is amazing, you know.

Bill Simpson 25:46

Yeah, and you you mentioned the word strength or strong. I gotta be strong. And if I could convince men to redefine what strength is and understand that the strength is taking that step to get support. Yeah, that's the strength. And it may feel like strength doing it on your own. And I've been there and it's such a struggle. And then once I finally had the courage to reach out and get support, it made all the difference in the world. It just totally changed my definition of what it means to be strong. So I want to make that point clear to men.

Jim Heidema 26:23

And and I something else occurred to me as you're speaking, Bill, that it's a small step to get involved in men's group. It's not a big step. You're not making a big decision, you're certainly not making a big financial decision. You're not committed for hundreds of euros, hundreds of dollars. Sorry, I do a lot of work in Europe, hundreds of dollars. You're not tying yourself financially to a big deal. It's a small step to just reach out. And maybe in the beginning, all you do is your camera off and you listen.

Bill Simpson 26:51

Yeah.

Jim Heidema 26:52

You know, and then eventually you when you're hearing people are going through similar circumstances to you and how they're dealing with it, you begin to participate and you let your guard down and you feel like what's interesting too, I've seen men let their guard down and not lose anything by doing it.

Bill Simpson 27:10

Yeah, yeah.

Jim Heidema 27:12

You know, that's the other thing too, because you let your guard down with your family or friends, they know you too well, and they're gonna make comments, you know, or they're gonna offer solutions. Men are great to offer solution. You know, it's I'm well, there's that book, uh, men are from Mars and Women from Venus. I'm sure you're aware of it. And uh, you know, men want to offer a solution and women want to talk about it, which is you know hard for men to understand sometimes. And and my wife actually has said to me a couple times, we've married for 52 years now, and uh she said to me a number of times, I don't want a solution, I just want a process.

Bill Simpson 27:51

There you go. I just really appreciate you taking the time to share about men's group. I've been wanting to do this ever since I joined, um, and I'm so glad I had this opportunity.

Future Vision And How To Join

Bill Simpson 28:04

I have one last question to ask you. What is it that you're most hopeful as you look toward the future of Men's Group?

Jim Heidema 28:12

You know, there there's a quote I have above my head which is making a difference. I hope if we would have more opportunity to make a difference in men's lives. It's wonderful we've got 2,000 members of the organization at this moment. Why don't we have 10,000? Why don't we have a hundred thousand? Because there's so many men out there that are struggling trying to make sense of their world by themselves. And it that's not necessary. You know, I and I'm not here selling that manuscript, it's not, you know, uh uh it's it's about helping more finding the environment where you can get the help you need. So I want this organization to move forward and have a greater impact. It is a significant impact we're making today.

Bill Simpson 29:00

Absolutely.

Jim Heidema 29:01

With people through you who you know are growing and developing and overcoming their challenges and moving forward. Let's make it bigger. Let's really blow the socks off this. There you go. And really have an effect on people. I see the nobility of what we're doing here. And that's a word that I don't use casually. And I think it's just would make such a difference. And it really touches my heart that we can do that. Because I don't think many organizations can say that.

Bill Simpson 29:32

I think you're right about that, Jim. Well, Jim, if someone is interested in being part of Men's Group, how do they get in touch?

Jim Heidema 29:40

Easy. Just Google it, men's group.org, go in there and take a look and uh wander around the website. And when you do go onto the site, there's a process there of helping you identify what you're really dealing with. I encourage people, and anytime we get new members, whenever I see a new member post anything, I'll post something to them. And I know you do as well. I've seen some of your posts. I usually say to them, well, just go wander around. Maybe you think you're coming in because you're having trouble with your uh child because you're a single parent, but maybe that's not the problem. Maybe it's something else. So wander around and see what they're talking about and see what the facilitators like, see what the group is like. Find your home.

Bill Simpson 30:22

All right. Sounds good. And I'll have that information in the show notes. Uh, and I also have a link uh to men's group on my website as well. So plenty of ways to get in touch with men's group.

Jim Heidema 30:34

Uh, before you close, I just want to say one thing, Bill. I I've had the pleasure of sitting on some of your sessions. I've had the pleasure of spending time with you. Thank you for being who you are. Thank you for what you're doing because you're good at it, sir.

Bill Simpson 30:48

Well, thanks so much, Jim. That means a lot to me. Really do appreciate it.

Jim Heidema 30:53

All right. Do take care and have a great weekend.

Bill Simpson 30:56

You do the same. And that will do it for this bonus episode of the Men on the Path to Love Podcast. I'm Bill Simpson, your host. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks again to my guest, Jeff Heidema, for giving us a peek into what men's group is all about. And again, you can find the link to men's group.org in the show notes and on my website, menonthepatholove.com. I highly encourage you to check it out. And after listening to this podcast, if another man comes to mind, share this with him. Share the link and share the love. And until next time, keep your heart open and stay on the path to love.