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To Live List
What’s on your To Live List®?
I realized there was something missing in my life—not another to-do, and definitely not a bucket list. Because what happens when you check off every box and you’re still here?
To-do lists are useful, sure. But they’re about getting things done. And then what? Just another list.
A To Live List® is different. It’s about how you want to live—through the highs, the lows, and everything in between.
On this podcast, we explore what it means to truly live—and to be fully present in your own life. Come along for real conversations and a fresh perspective on how to shape your life.
To Live List
The Art of Transformation and Authenticity: A Conversation with Deanna Singh
Deanna Singh walked away from a corporate career—not once, but twice—to build a life fully aligned with purpose.
Born to a Punjabi father and a Mississippi-raised mother, she grew up watching love transcend language and culture. That early lesson shaped how she moves through the world: boldly, with purpose, and unafraid to rewrite the rules.
In this episode, Deanna shares how she left corporate leadership to run a foundation focused on health equity and education—then took another leap into full-time consulting, keynote speaking, and writing children’s books. She opens up about navigating uncertainty, trusting big transitions, and building a career that blends impact with passion.
From launching a doula company to advocating for representation in kids’ literature, Deanna proves that success isn’t about staying in one lane—it’s about following what truly matters.
Big thanks to Deanna Singh for this powerful conversation—you won’t want to miss it!
Send us a text. We ❤️ to hear from you 💡
Checkout Our Blog called Tune-In for episode recaps and more show notes.
Welcome back to the To Live List.
Delia:Don't want to miss this. Welcome back to the To Live List. I'm your host, delia Grenville, and I'm really excited to share today's episode with you. It had been six or seven years since I'd last caught up with Deanna Singh, and our conversation was something truly special. If you've been following this season, you know we've been focusing on the idea of giving ourselves permission to live fully. Deanna's story is incredibly inspiring. She's an entrepreneur, author, speaker and so much more. In our conversation, she shared how she's navigated these roles while staying true to her purpose. We dove into how she's turned dreams into action and broken through expectations along the way. So let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Deanna Singh. Hey, I'm very excited to have you on, deanna, and before, as we start, let's just go ahead and get started.
Delia:So, everyone, this is Deanna Singh and, as you all have known, during this season of the To Live List podcast, we have been focusing on women, especially women, although the talk is for everybody and the conversation is for everybody, but about giving ourselves permission. There was this guest that I had on in season one and we got to talking and we just. One of the things that came up for me was in that conversation is that we find ourselves in a very odd time, I think, where we kind of have to have what I've been terming as permission fluidity, like it's not a yes or a no or a gray, it's like a sliding scale. And I think what I'm noticing is younger generations seem to know that, like I believe I'm raising Gen Zs, so I think they have some of that Gen Alphas that sort of built into the game. But for us who came up before that time, you know, it was sort of like you're going to be a teacher or a lawyer or an educator or in a band and you can't be all the things right, you're not multi-hyphenated, you're going to fit in this box. And now all of a sudden we find ourselves in a world where, you know, look, even for us to get this podcast going, you have to know a little bit about sound music. We do our own makeup I'm assuming you didn't have a makeup artist today so we do our own makeup. You know the whole thing. So how you know, it's become a very, very interesting world that requires us to give ourselves permission to live fully. And I haven't.
Delia:So audience, I haven't talked to Deanna in what six or seven years. It was at the beginning of her journey, a journey that I feel that I'm on right now, at the beginning of, wow, who am I entrepreneurially, what do I want to do? How many things do I want to touch? And I remember having the conversation with you and you had dreams. You had a children's book out there. I believe you had a TED talk maybe at that time. But all of the other things that happened since, you know, they were just maybe in your imagination or on a plan or just happened in life. But I remember talking to you and I just thought, wow, she's fully embracing this and I wonder how it's going to end up. And now, here we are, years later, and I get to find out how it ended up, but also how you got there. So, welcome everybody. This is the introduction to Deanna Sane.
Deanna:Well, thank you so much. It's so lovely to be able to be on a call with you and it does kind of put it in perspective, right, when you think about the fact that it has been a while since we last talked and a lot has transpired, not just in our own personal lives, but just in the world. I mean, the world is different than it was six years ago. Things that we couldn't imagine, a pandemic, just all these different things have happened. So it is it's kind of interesting to be like wait a minute, let's take a pause, let's go back there, let's remember what was that like.
Delia:I know, I know. So I remember you telling me. I think you're one of the first people who had such an interesting story. So for those of you who are listening to this as many of you will listen to this Deanna is biracial in a very interesting kind of way and you told me how you met, how your parents met, and sort of the story of growing up in your household. So maybe you can share that with folks.
Deanna:Yeah, absolutely so. I am biracial. My mom is actually African-American and her family comes from a very small community, mcgee, mississippi, and my father is actually Indian and he is Sikh American and his family comes from a very small village in Punjab, india, and they met and married after knowing each other for just three months and they're celebrating 40 something years this year, so it's very exciting. And I'm actually their eldest child, and so here I was as the eldest child of these two people who come from different religions, different backgrounds, different upbringings, different cultures, different food, different language. They didn't even speak the same language when they got married. Different language, they didn't even speak the same language when they got married. So for me, that whole process of getting a chance to watch that and observe that has, you know, been a major, major influence on my life and tell us just a little bit more, because that's so intriguing.
Delia:They didn't even speak the same language. How did they get married in three months?
Deanna:Yeah, well, my father had like very functional English because he was working at a gas station. My mom would stop at that same gas station on her way to her job, which was working in a factory. And you know, when she realized he wasn't, he had like a hot pot and then he was living in the gas station. All this my mom's a great cook. She was like no, not going to happen on my watch. So she started bringing him food and, you know, then she started helping him kind of pick up some, some language. They would sit in front of the television and he would say what's the meaning of this? And my mom would explain. And you know, from from there they they decided I wasn't there yet Any more details, but from there they really decided that they wanted to, they wanted to move forward. And I think that that's just kind of fascinating, right, when you think about it, and I think that it kind of comes back to how you introduced this podcast.
Deanna:But this idea that it's a very pervasive idea, that you can only be part of one box, one, you know pathway, one structure, even.
Deanna:You know, I read all this like stuff on for entrepreneurs that are like pick that one lane that one niche, that one, this, and there's so much of it out there that you're like, yeah, maybe I should and it makes sense, right, it's easier to just be like I don't have to know so many different things and then I just go this way and whatever you can scale and all these other things. So I'm not rebuting that. That is a philosophy, but it is a philosophy, a singular philosophy. It might be the loudest one, it might be the one you know that most people have the most information to, quite frankly, can sell to, but it doesn't mean it's the only way, and I think that my parents' relationship is really reflective of that too. Right, the fact that they were able to come out of this box of like this is what is expected and this is what's going to happen, and really do what they felt they were supposed to be doing with their lives is pretty tremendous.
Delia:Yeah, I mean you also have to give yourself the permission to do that or just let yourself lean into it, because a lot of times people will be like what, what happened Three months, you know? And I kind of feel like I'm similarly in a relationship biracial. My husband and we were engaged after six months and we got married like the year after that, right? So I mean, we were just like we're just going on the path, we're committed to it and we'll move forward, and this is going to be our 24th anniversary. So I guess you kind of decide, you have a mindset and you move forward with that. And I'm glad that you brought up you know kind of picking a path. Even as an entrepreneur, I think there's some things that you pick the path on and they become foundational, but it still gives you freedom to do other things, right, because I think sometimes people think when you pick the path, then there are no latitudes, right.
Delia:Like yeah, but your parents, if you know my husband and I, you know we moved all over. We've had different, you know different examples. You have kids. They inform your life in different ways and I think the same thing happens as you go through your career and your business and if you make a mistake you can reset. It's just sort of up to you what things are foundational and you can reset and what things you're not going to. And you may decide to reset everything because some people do that and you may keep the band really narrow and some people do that as well.
Deanna:Agreed, absolutely. I had a conversation this morning with my son on the way to high school and we were driving the car and I was like you know, in life you're going to have things that you're afraid of. You know that's part of the lived experience. In particular, if you're an entrepreneur, you're going to. You know that's part of the lived experience. In particular, if you're an entrepreneur, you're going to have things that are scary. I literally do something that I'm scared of every single day. Every single day, even when I'm not trying to do things that I'm afraid of, I do something that I'm afraid of. And.
Deanna:I told him.
Deanna:You know that I think that when I and I coach a lot of entrepreneurs and you know this and that and people will call me and ask for advice and I told them one of the key distinguishers between those who are really successful and are able to move forward and able to build things and all of that, is that they see that fear and let them, instead of letting that fear be, you know, a stop sign, something that takes them off their path, that, you know, just deters them.
Deanna:They see it as maybe a speed bump, right, but not necessarily that's going to get them so afraid that they can't make a decision.
Deanna:And what I have come to find out is that and this is the point that I was really trying to make to him and hopefully this is helpful for your listeners too is that when you have fear or something you're afraid of, the decision is actually where most of that fear sits.
Deanna:So once you pass the decision point and you actually get into okay, I've made a decision, now I know what's on the what's on the horizon or what I have to do that's actually where the fear dissipates, right, because then you don't have time, then it's like nope, I got to take action and so I see too many people get stuck because the fear is weighted on the front end, right Like the scary things are weighted on the front end. But as soon as you sort of make that decision and you become committed to it, then it becomes easier on the back end because you know what you have to do. You know it gives you the parameters on what you have to get done. So that was the advice I was trying to give to him this morning. Hopefully that's relevant to your listeners.
Delia:No, I think I was thinking back to our conversation. What? Six years ago now? And you had just left the corporate educational world, whatever, and going into your own business, so you had just maybe gone through that fear point. Tell us a little bit more about how you got through that decision and what was leading up to it, and then, now that you've then the pushing past it, and maybe more if you'd like.
Deanna:Yeah, you know. So for me, like the question that I always ask myself, and every time I've had like a major transition, so in career right and and kind of in what I'm doing with my, with my days, the question I always ask myself is what's my purpose? And I wrote a whole book on this right what am I uniquely positioned to do in my life? I define my purpose as shifting power to marginalized communities. So I always reflect is that still the way that I would say it? Would I say it differently what needs to adjust or change based on the experiences I've had or whatever? What's happening right now? And then, once I have clarity there, and the second question is how do I exponentially increase my ability to live that purpose Right? So, whatever I'm doing in the moment is going to be fulfilling the purpose, because that's how I got there. But the question is is there another way that I could be doing this that would impact more people positively, that would leave more of a legacy, that right that that would allow for more people to thrive Like what is? Is there something that I could do that would exponentially impact my ability to live in my purpose? And so the moment that you're talking about, yeah, yeah, moment. Right, so like, and I'll tell you, whenever I get to a moment where I feel like I have to ask that question, that is like one of the most terrifying questions, right Like, so you talk about fear. I give it to myself and it's scary because I know that if I'm at a point where I'm asking that question, there's probably something that's in the answer that's going to push me outside of my comfort zone.
Deanna:And that's really where I was right. I was doing I hadn't had the business actually for many years before that, but I was just doing. I've always had some kind of entrepreneurial thing going on, but it was always in the background. My husband always defined it as like, like that's your five to nine, you know, like not your nine to five, your five to nine. And so I always had that I was doing you know, 50, 60, 70 keynotes a year. It wasn't that like I was not doing this, but it was my five to nine. And I just got to this moment where I thought, okay, well, here's what I'm doing and here's the impact that I'm having, but here's what I could do Right, tell people about your nine to five, Cause they might not know it before.
Deanna:Oh sure, so running a foundation, um that was my last kind of corporate role.
Deanna:So I was running a foundation. That was my last kind of corporate role. I was running a very large foundation with a focus on, in particular, health equity but really looking at education and looking at it in a very holistic standpoint. So I had stood that organization up and then was also helping to essentially get another nonprofit that we were making a big investment in off the ground. So a social enterprise that that we really wanted to see get off the ground. So two companies, one that I was working in that was, you know, our organization, and another one that we were helping fund and kind of get off the ground but through that through, through the work that we're doing through the foundation. So that's what I was doing right before I decided to make this decision. But in addition to that, like I said, I was already doing the consulting work. I had already written a number of children's books. I mean, I was already doing a lot and a lot of training and keynote speaking. But it was all on top of that and in my own time.
Delia:And you had already written I am a boy of color by then.
Deanna:Yes, I had written I'm a boy of color and I'm a girl of color. I'd written both of them, Okay.
Delia:And so you're in this corporate job. You have your five to nine side hustle, whatever people want to call that. Your creative energies, I believe, are going into that timing and something says to you I can do more. And you're saying for you, you kind of have a purpose statement, a vision statement that sort of aligns your I can do more. That you're periodically checking in on with yourself like am I? Am I, am I still doing this? Am I doing it as well as I could? Is there something that I have to give up to do this better, or is there something that I have to take on so that I am fulfilling my promise?
Deanna:Absolutely, that's great job summarizing it and for me those are really critical moments and, like I said, they're scary moments because I know that if there's something that's making me ask that question, it's because I know that there is an answer and that's going to be scary, it's going to be something that's like different than what I'm doing. It's going to push me in a new way.
Delia:So, absolutely, when you did this leap because I remember like you were doing keynotes and stuff but you didn't know every organization you would be working with, you didn't know exactly what the path was going to be Tell us two things what made you feel you could do it Right and how did it feel while you were doing it? And that sort of you know, because it's kind of like a knot we have to unravel when we get to that place. I think that's kind of why it's scary is because the who you are now is intertwined with the future of what you want to be and with the purpose, and it's like all knotted together. You know it's there, but how do you get all the strands separated so you can figure out, you know where everything is going and where you need to, what you need to do next, if that's an analogy.
Deanna:I thought I was going to bust open right. This desire in my heart was so intense and, like I'm you know, I come from very much like a service leadership upbringing. I come from a service leadership mindset, and I could just see and feel that there were so many people who were looking for the kind of work that I was providing and like the space that I could create. And I think a lot of it came from, like you said before, like giving myself the permission. There wasn't this like I don't know, I've never, I've never been motivated, like where?
Deanna:it's like you're going to make a gazillion dollars or this like fancy title or you're going to like, you know, and for some people that's really great and that's what motivates them. For me it's like am I going to actually, at the end of my life, like people are gonna be like you know that Deanna girl? She knew what her purpose was and she stuck to it. Even when it was hard, even when it was scary, even when she failed, she still, like, kept coming back to it, and that's the legacy that I want to leave, like that's the life that I want to live, that's the example I would like to set right for my children and people in my community, and so so, yeah, so I think I just got to a place where I was like this isn't even. It doesn't feel like a choice as much as it feels like I'm holding off the inevitable, right, I'm going to bust if I don't follow this and if I don't give it the space to grow into whatever thing it's going to grow into. And so I think that was some of the motivation is just, I knew right and and I have to tell you that that's a muscle that I had to grow into, because earlier in my career I definitely had that same feeling in other things.
Deanna:I am a chronic founder, right Like I like to build things, and there were other times in my career where I felt that like, oh, it's time. You know what I mean. It's bubbling, but I was like, but that's not responsible. But oh my gosh, you know, so many people would love to have this role. Oh my gosh, like you're going to walk away from health insurance, right, like we're this like very practical, but also, um, what I, what what's fed into us, like was, was loud, but then also why does the voice go?
Delia:that's not responsible. Why does it come in a whisper? Can anyone tell me, like you know, we all know that's how it sort of like gets behind us and says why are you going to give that up? It's somebody else's perfect life, just like? Where does that come from? Because I hear that from so many people.
Deanna:Yeah, you know, I think it comes from a lot of different sources. I think, particularly for me, like I am a first generation professional, first generation college student and first, you know, a generation, immigrant, first generation, like all these different, all these different things, and I think in many ways that is a huge blessing, right, such a blessing to be able to have had so many people pour into me that I could do these things that you know I am. I am my my forefather's wildest dreams, like I. I realized that there's, it's been such a blessing, but there's also a little bit of a burden to that. What do they say? The crown is heavy, right, like there's a burden to that too, where you're like, yeah, at one point do I recognize that I also have to add something to it? I can't just sit on other people's dreams, but I have to add to that. And I think that when we think about, like, how people you know talk to at least for me, I can speak from my own experience. But I know this is the case for a lot of first views and onlys, right, like we get told, hey, this is the ideal thing, oh my gosh, if you get your law degree and practice in a big firm and go up to the highest level and you know what I mean Make a gazillion dollars, like that was what was considered success, and so we're fed that. And so I think it's really hard to kind of buck against it, or maybe not even buck against it, but to even on top of it, right. I think that so much of that like I wouldn't give it up for anything because so much of that is what fueled me being able to do some of these amazing things I've had the opportunity to do in my life.
Deanna:It was, it's like adding onto it, but that voice is there. It's a very real voice. I always say that mine sounds like this, you know, and like it's like right back here and what. What I was saying is that early in my career that voice was so loud and I didn't know what to do with it and I felt it made me feel guilty or shame, it slowed me down.
Deanna:And now I've gotten to a place just in my career where I'm like, the longer I wait or prolong what I already know is inevitable, the less people I can serve right. The longer I wait like, the less joy I'm going to be able to bring into the, into the world, and so, if I know it's inevitable, like I need to embrace it. And so now, like, when I hear that voice, I'd be like, oh, I don't like your tone. You know, talk to me like, you're very helpful sometimes and when you want to talk to me you can talk to me. But you got to, you got to talk in a different kind of voice, you know, like, and we got to, we got to get on the same page here, but I can talk back to it, as opposed to it just consuming, consuming, consuming, consuming my thoughts and so. But that's a skill, that is a 100, a skill that I've had to learn over time and it's a tough one.
Delia:It really is. Uh, you know, because I think when people see your success right as a, as a keynote speaker, as a leader, as someone who's going out and doing and making social impact right and and taking it along the trajectory that you want to take it, they think, well, maybe it was obvious to her right and it always sounds great as the story unfolds, but you were living it right. So maybe help the audience unfolds, but you were living it right. So maybe help the audience to understand typically what your first touch points were like you know within the community and where they are now and how you got there.
Deanna:Sure. So I think one thing that I would really say is that, um, no matter where you are in your process, if you're at the beginning, the middle, you know, if you're thinking about retiring and you're kind of wherever you are, you might be in your career the things that happen along the way, I think all get compounded to get you to where you're going to be Right. And so you know, somebody asked me the other day they're like oh, deanna, I've written six books now, right. And they're like tell me about the writing process, so how long does it take you to write a book? And I giggled. I'm like that is such a great question because every you know there's many ways I can answer it right.
Deanna:Every way that I've done a book has been kind of a different way. We I have was published by Penguin Random House. I was published by American Girl. We did a hybrid publishing. I self-published a book. I mean like all these different, literally almost every one way that you could think about, I've published a book through these different.
Deanna:So there's an answer that I could give you that would be about that, what that publishing process is like. There's also an answer that would give you about like when did I sit down and write, like, what was my writing schedule? And I could do that, but the reality is the and that would be like, oh, a year, you know two years again, depending on what the writing schedule was. The reality is I've been writing this book my whole life. I was born on July 25th, right Like 19. And I could, and that's when I started writing this book, because culmination of all of those experiences.
Deanna:And so you know, when people say like well, you know you're doing these big stages and you know, you, you, you and all this, and I'm like, yes, exactly, but do you know how long I have been speaking on stages? And that's not to deter them, right, everybody has a starting point. But it's to say, like I didn't write this speech. I might've sat down and spent 10 hours putting this together, but I'm talking about stories that culminate 25 years ago, yeah, right, and things that I had to experience 25 years ago. So it's not, they say, this overnight. Success took 25 years to build. That is a very real thing, and so I think it's understanding, no matter where you are, that you take that lens of reflection and think about how did where I've been influence how I am here now and what are the other things that need to be in my where I've been to get me to where I wanna go next?
Delia:And you talk specifically right around and correct me if I'm wrong through Flying Elephant you talk specifically around change agency. That's what I remembered six years ago, but I don't know what the trajectory has been since. But when, in my mind, when you, you know, when we met in that first call, you had already in writing the book. Right, I am a boy of color and I am a girl of color. At that point you had already realized listen, I'm going to change the world by telling the story. Right, like your change agency was sort of already integrated into that story and you were going to bring it to the next levels through the work that you've done now.
Delia:And I bring that up because I think a lot of times people like you were saying earlier, they don't see that the story started. I love it. On the day they were born, you know that that story started and they're sort of injecting that story in all of the different places. And you know your, you know your model and your role as change agent and coming in and motivating people to do change, all levels of change. You know, well, I think it might seem amorphous to some people and also like, okay, a change agent, what's that? And I really want you to help people understand where does that come from? Because I think that's when people listen to this, they'll be struggling with something like that in their own lives, and somehow you've been able to make it concrete.
Deanna:Yeah, so I wouldn't. I thank you very much. You're very, very kind. It's very fun reflecting with you too, but I wouldn't say it's concrete. You know I would. I would say it's not concrete at all.
Deanna:As a matter of fact, I would say part of the success of the company, of what we've been able to accomplish, the impact that we've had, is that we've been malleable right, and not malleable at the core, not at the at the at the core what. What you just said and how you described my role, how you described what we do right, how we're trying to have influence in the world, all of that is very, very much, exactly the same. But also recognizing, right, that we could do that through children's books. We can do that through I don't know if you know, but I started a doula company. No, I didn't. I think we had just started, probably around the time that you and I chatted, but it hadn't really fully gotten off the ground yet. So, yeah, so we provide birthing services. You know, after that book, I've written four other books, right.
Deanna:So we've consulted all over the world, we created accreditation programs. We've I mean literally, if you made the list of all the things that have been accomplished in this last year. I mean it's kind of tiring for me even to think about it, but the reason for that is not like because of a lack of focus. It's not because of a lack of focus, it's not because of a lack of anything really. It's because we've come at it from an abundance mindset and really said, given our skills, our talents, the things that we're passionate about, like, how do we show up and serve for what is needed right now? And I'm super proud of that. Right, how can you teach other people to be a change agent if you can't also embrace that change? So no, we are not concrete.
Delia:that maybe the core of us is right, got that level, but the rest of it is really bending and shaping to try and meet the, the needs that we, that we see I'm sitting here, the scientist mind in me is saying you know, you sound so atomic like in the sense that if I were to ask this computer mouse if it was a mouse, it would say I'm a mouse. But if I ask a physicist they go no, they're all little shaking molecules. They're moving around, they're attracted to each other, they're sticking together, but you know, but they're each a molecule and they're doing their molecule thing. So it's you know. So I think we have those lenses right and I agree with you completely in that you know, it's not.
Delia:You know, you formed into six books and flying elephants and a doula company and all of these things. You're formed into them. But you can also make new forms, and even those forms are holding together because they want to be there in the sort of a scientist kind of geeky point of view. So, yeah, I totally get what you're. You, you want to emphasize, it's not out of stillness or, you know, being being a desire to, you know, remain completely fixed. It's these things have formed to, you know, to serve something and they stay in that form for as long as they'll provide that service. If not, you guys will shape something else.
Deanna:And the line in my bio right that says Deanna will build or break, and that's true, and I didn't write it, my team wrote it and I'm like that is a really good way to describe it. Right, if we see that there's an opportunity for us to make a positive change and we, in order to do it, we got to break something, or in order to do, we got to build something, that's what we'll do, because we've built a culture that does not shy away from the fact that a change is inevitable, changes what allows us to progress and allows us to move forward. And so, even if it's uncomfortable, like that's what we've got to do, and I'm really, really, really proud of what the team has been able to build as a result of that.
Delia:And kind of going to segue and give you a little bit of a, put you on the spot a bit. She's like wait, wasn't I on the spot already? No One line for each book on what you think it demonstrates in terms of change or permission in your life. Please remember to give the title because people won't know. But so each book that you've written what it demonstrates in terms of change and permission, it could be in your life or in the life of the company or what was the surrounding area.
Deanna:So Sure, so I'll put I'm a boy of color and I'm a girl of color together. Uh, their children's books, um, their picture books, and really what I was frustrated with is I, I said to many people um, we have a PR problem when it comes to the way that our black and brown children are being depicted and they deserve to be able to all of us, and not just black and brown children, but all children deserve to be able to pick up a book and see children of all different backgrounds reflected and to see them experiencing joy and being celebrated. So that is what was the impetus for those two books. And really the change that we were trying to create was how do we change the narrative so that all kids are included in our stories? And I mean, the name of that company is called Story to Tell Books, right? So it is the idea that everybody has a story to tell.
Deanna:And the second company excuse me, the third book, the third children's book, was called Cloth Crown, and I wrote Cloth Crown after there was a very deadly massacre in my hometown, so in Milwaukee, wisconsin, one of my, our dude, my, like my uncle, I grew up my whole life thinking he was actually my blood uncle. It turns out he wasn't, but I didn't know that until my late twenties. Um was was killed really brutally by a mass shooter and killed in our temple and I, at a number of different levels, without going into you know a tremendous amount of detail. I was struck by the fact that, because of how our culture is and the religion is, is that that shooter could have came in and actually been fed and welcomed and treated like a king, you know like, and been honored. And so what happened? Where's the disconnect between what he thought he was doing and what he actually did? And and so I went to pen and paper, right, and I wrote a book about what the turban means, why people wear the turban, and I used the stories of my cousins and my father, and you know how, like a little, how a child has to navigate whether or not they're going to cut their hair or wear the turban. You know the bug and what that means, and so that's the story. So the whole change that I was trying to make there is how do we make sure that we're introducing a narrative, an actual narrative, of turbans and why they're important to the people in the Sikh culture and religion, and provide that as an opportunity for children to learn right. So that was the change I was trying to make with that one.
Deanna:The fourth children's book was actually for American Girl. So I wrote the American Girl as Girl's Guide to Race and Inclusion and really that was because I had so many teachers and educators and parents and you know community members who are reaching out to me after George Floyd was murdered and they were saying you know, our children are asking us questions and we don't have any tools to talk to them about the questions that they're asking. So when a girl approached me, that was already in my heart. When American girl approached me and asked me if I would write for them, I mean I already knew, right, what I, what I wanted to write about, and they were amazing, they were amazing partners, and so that's why I wrote that book. So those are the four children's books, the two business books and leadership books.
Deanna:One is called purposeful hustle, which is what I talk about, right, like defining what your purpose is and then being able to work in that space to make the world a better place. And I did that because, quite frankly, I believe and this is somebody who for over a decade gave out millions and millions of dollars right as a funder. I believe that all the world's problems, like we have all the solutions. I think I don't think it's because of a lack of money, although I know money's important. I don't think it's a lack of resources. I know resources are important. It's not a lack of research. I know that research is important and it's not in the policy not to dismiss any of those things. They are all pieces of the pie, but I think the real crux of us being able to realize those solutions lies in the fact that there are people who may have them, who don't have the platforms to share them.
Deanna:Right Got an idea about how to cure cancer, but they're in a room where nobody listens to them. They have an idea about what to do, you know, when it comes to some of the horrific things that are happening from a diplomatic standpoint, but they're not given a microphone to participate in those conversations and those solutions. And so really, for me, purposeful hustle was like oh my gosh, my purpose is not your purpose, your purpose is not my purpose, like you're the only person in the world who could do the thing that you were meant to do and I need you to do it. I need you to do it fully, and so that is was the. You know, that's the change that I hope to make, is what you made this whole podcast about, right, like helping people see that they already have the permission to live in that purpose. And the last book was called Action Speak Louder, and that's my latest book, but that really was because I do a lot of work in the workplace inclusion space.
Deanna:I am very privileged to be able to work with amazing organizations and leaders who want to make organizations where everybody thrives. What I have never seen in all the work that I've been doing and I've been doing this for decades, you know I've never heard anybody say I want people to hate their jobs. I want them to show up and not like their teammates, I don't want them to thrive. I've never heard that. But what I have heard right is I don't know what that means.
Deanna:I don't know what I do differently I, what I do differently. I don't know. I don't know how I change what I'm doing today versus what I do tomorrow. What, what, how do I actually implement that? And so I think there's amazing research that's done in this space. I'm so grateful to the people who have done it, because I read their books like I devour their, their materials and and all of that. But I think what was missing in the conversation is like, how do I make this actionable? And so that's what the book is really geared at is how do you take these big theories and turn them into practical? I can do this, we can do this, you can do this things.
Delia:So this kind of reminds me. I used to tell my husband, cause I was very, I had hyperemesis, like the Duchess did, you know, with my pregnancies. But then I went and did one of these pregnancy photo shoots and you see the photo shoot and I just look like a happy pregnant person, not like a person who's about to throw up, and I go there in. I did it. I have now filled the myth that everyone's perfectly fine during the pregnancy because these pictures look so good. And listening to you, right, you kind of even though we don't want to, it's you know, everything feels like it fell into place. Right, because you see what's happened is your scale and your scope has gotten bigger. But we have just had real talk and everyone who's listening to this knows because Deanna has said so that first of all, it's not concrete that she's willing to build and break things, that she is just asking herself every time am I fulfilling the purpose? And if not me, then who else? Right, because if I see it that there's an issue, as Deanna has said, if she sees the issue and she's positioned there to make the change, then she's not looking around her shoulders to find out if someone else is supposed to do that. The reason that it's known to her and seen to her is because she knows she's supposed to step into that. That's her purposeful hustle. She needs to go and do that.
Delia:And I wanted you to go through that timeline for folks because a lot of times for many of us, as you said, we're the first, we're the onlys, we're the, you know, the new generation, all of those things we, you know, we have heard about the preordained path and we kind of just believe that we need to stick to it. We talked about that little voice and its tones and how it leads us to believe that that is all that we should do, right. And there is a point, or there comes a point, where we can give ourselves the permission to do more. And why we're telling these stories, particularly on the podcast, is to demonstrate that, even when you go off the so-called path right, the story that will emerge because of you putting yourself forward in your purpose, in the mistakes, in the travails, and the things that you break that don't come back together, and the things that you break that form new things, are going to lead to something more than what you could possibly imagine usually and have the impact that's aligned with whatever is driving you.
Deanna:You know, I, I really hope that I didn't do a thing. That absolutely annoys me. And it's really hard because, you know, you don't have like hours and hours and hours to tell all the different components of the story, but I oftentimes will hear people or see people in these positions and what they will do is they will talk about their mountaintops, right, if you ask me, like, what were the books that I read? And I told you. But when I told you, I was trying to tell you, like, like, what were the books that I read? And I told you. But I, when I told you, I was trying to tell you like, no, it was because I was really hurt.
Deanna:I, someone I loved was murdered, right, I, I, this was not. I didn't sit down, you know, I don't. I went in these Hallmark movies where people are like writing and they've got their little cup of coffee and there's a beautiful fire in front of them and they're just like everything's glowing and they just look like, no, I write, and I'm like I make this terrible face and I cry a lot and it's just not, it's not, it's not great, it's not rosy, it's not easy, right, and I try to strike this balance between like it's not easy, but it's not impossible. Exactly Right, it's not easy, but it's not impossible.
Delia:And I think you did that because you know, you kind of told the stories at the beginning, that sort of set up the fact that these things emerged, but they weren't like preset you know, yeah, and.
Deanna:And I failed a lot. Are you kidding me? Oh my gosh, I failed. So my mom used to. I told her I wrote this thing Long story short, but I wrote this thing called like a fail to me, right, and I was really. I'm really really trying to fail to what? Sorry, a fail to me. So instead of a resume to make okay, yeah, like, no, like, instead of a resume, yeah.
Delia:Oh, okay, okay, All right, I'm glad we said that louder. So fail to me. That's interesting. Tell us more.
Deanna:Yeah, and I I am trying to get I hope you have HR people listening Cause I am trying to get HR people to like really embrace this idea or tell your HR friends, cause I think that you know, when we set up and this kind of goes back to an earlier question you asked me too, like why do what is that voice coming from that makes us think on path, when we, when we hear people's stories of success or when we go into a job interview and we're trying to tell our own story, a lot of times those moments are set up to only talk about the top of your mountain, finish this, I got this degree, I've got this job, I put right, and. But what it doesn't do is it doesn't give any credence to like oh my gosh, what were all the valleys that you had to go through? Who are the people that you met along the mountaintop? Where did you fall down? Where'd you get hurt? Right, and I have just found that that part of the story is actually the part that's the most defining part. You know, you get to the top of the mountaintop and you're like, oh, okay, right, but that's not where the happiness and the joy and the relationships and all that marks a moment, and those are important moments to mark and, of course, they're exciting, but not nearly as much as all the things that have to happen before you get there. And so I would just encourage people, like, if you're feeling a little anxious about whatever it is the mountain that you're looking at is, don't just talk to people. When you talk to them who have made it to the mountain top, just talk about the mountain top, like find out where they failed.
Deanna:And so what I was saying is I came up with this whole series around, like a fails me and I, um, I was telling my mom, you know, I was doing a lot of speaking and she's like, oh gosh, I'm so glad. You know, when you were younger, you'd be so afraid of failing that you wouldn't even start something. And she's like, oh, you are so good at failing and she's proud of you, she is proud of me, you know, and she's right. I mean, I am really really really good at failing. Awesome, yeah, you know the.
Deanna:What I was telling you started with my son, like giving him that advice of like, hey, you have to understand that sometimes just making that decision is the hardest part. And then, once you've made the decision, then that's where you can start to then turn into action plan. You don't have to get stuck in like just that fear. But the other thing is and you know, this is something I talked to, anybody who will listen, I will tell them this is that you also have to get just so good at failing. Like you know, people say fail fast or or or. You know you have to. You have to fail in order to grow. And also I say like embrace it when you see that there's an opportunity to fail, be like yes, oh my gosh, I could totally fail at this. Let me tell you all the ways I could potentially fail at this. Right, because you name it and it makes that voice quieter.
Delia:Yeah, yeah. So when you were talking about the fail to may which I'm glad you said it because I failed to make I never heard this word before because obviously it's a Deanna Singh word, so why would I have known it? Your fail to may, which is brilliant, you know, you also talked about the valleys, like not just mountaintops and valleys, and I thought this was an interesting place for us to sort of wrap up, which is you know something about. When you were saying the word valleys and the way you were talking about it, I was like, oh, she's really emphasizing that your values are not just mountaintop values, your values are born in that valley. Like how you handle those valleys and if you still come out with your values, then you know that they will be there for the duration. I don't know why that sort of popped up while you were speaking and describing and watching you talking, but I was like, oh, this is where your values are showing up. What do you think?
Deanna:Oh my gosh, that's where they're shaped, that's where they're tested, that's where you grow in them, that's where your confidence is built, that's how you build relationships, that's how you build trust, right, because if people can, I mean it's really easy to be like perky and happy and excited and, you know, trying new things, when everything, when you're on top of the mountain, you could feel like you could see the whole world. It's really hard when you don't know where that money is going to come from. You're not sure if anybody's going to buy that book. You have just cried over for months. You don't know, right, like, but you still stick to it because you know at your core that it's not really about you. It's about this higher calling that you have and this higher value that you have.
Deanna:I mean there are so many things that I have done that like will not see the light of day, right or maybe. And there's things that I did like 10, 15 years ago that I was like, nah, this is never going to be, and then, all of a sudden, they are a thing, right and and. And it's not because I, but when I, when I did it, when I went at it, I tried to keep that, like the pureness around, like why am I doing this? I am. I'm not doing this because, like I said, the money, the all that. No, I'm doing this because, at the very core, I don't. I feel like I don't have a choice because I've already committed to that purpose, so Awesome. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things when people stop me and be like hey, you remember such and such, and it'll be things that, like, I've forgotten or that you know.
Deanna:Well, I saw you there and I really and that was 10 years ago or that was 15 years ago or they pull out a piece of paper. There's this woman at a conference and she pulled out a piece of paper. It was in her wallet, it was all folded up into like this little thing, and she's like I saw you, I think she said seven years ago, and you said this thing, and I put it in my wallet. And whenever, you know, I get to this moment, I pull it back out again. What See, if you are living in your purpose, right, you don't know the impact that you can have on other people, and for me that's enough, that's enough. And that takes a lot of courage to get there. But and it gets tested. But because I know that about who I am and how I want to show up, I'm much more likely to try stuff. I'm much more likely to fail real, real good, and I'm pretty likely to get things done that other people may not or that might've only been part of somebody's imagination. Amen.
Delia:So, deanna, there you go. That's our time. Thank you so much for sharing your story and catching me up. It was hard for us people don't know, we have attempted this podcast like three times in the last four months or something, but finally we're both here, both we're able to catch up and we refused to do a catch-up beforehand because we wanted to do it live here on the podcast.
Delia:So it would be spontaneous and, you know, hopefully full of curiosity, because I definitely learned a lot about you know, really and I hope this comes through to the listeners it's okay to do this. However, you're going to get it done and you know and things aren't going to work out, and that is okay too Just stay aligned to your values Over time during the trajectory of doing whatever you feel is your purpose, you will make progress and hopefully, you know you make impact, and I really like the story of the, the person holding on to that note, because often we don't know that impact that we're making right, that one-to-one impact, and we just have to trust that if we're doing the work that we were meant to be doing, then you know we'll be touching people's lives and I think what more can we ask for right, deanna. The time here is so short yeah.
Deanna:And there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it, there is nothing like it.
Delia:Deanna Singh, thank you so much for your time and thanks everyone for listening to the To Live Less podcast. This is the end of season two and we'll see you in season three with more guests and more great topics to talk about and finding out about what is on our speakers and listeners to live list. Thanks everyone, you.
