Old Pueblo MTB is a mountain bike group based in Tucson, AZ. that hosts multiple group rides every week. The group communicates primarily through their Facebook page which has 4,000+ members.
The episode features ‘The Travis Williams’ (aka Captain Enthusiasm) who is one of the key administrators of Old Pueblo MTB. In addition to learning all about Old Pueblo MTB… the boys and Travis discuss lots of interesting topics including the inspiring story of Travis’ recovery from a heart attack and his journey back to the trail.
There’s also a section in this podcast where we delve a bit into the topic of e-mtb’s. Travis shares how he thinks many e-bike naysayers suffer from the “broccoli-effect”. Meaning, they hate e-bikes, but they’ve never tried one (like kids often are with broccoli). If that’s you, we urge you to try out an e-mtb… we suspect you might come away with a different perspective.
About Old Pueblo MTB:
A diverse, family friendly group of people in the Tucson area joined together by our mutual love of Mountain Biking. We welcome all ages, from any walk of life. If you're new to the sport, or just want to try it out, come join us! We have skill levels from beginner to expert and we ride as often as we can. We welcome your photos, videos, questions and input. See you on the trail!
Old Pueblo MTB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/203787656312279/
Listen to Mountain Cog
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Other Podcast Sites
Socials
Instagram
Facebook
Email
mountaincog@gmail.com
Old Pueblo MTB is a mountain bike group based in Tucson, AZ. that hosts multiple group rides every week. The group communicates primarily through their Facebook page which has 4,000+ members.
The episode features ‘The Travis Williams’ (aka Captain Enthusiasm) who is one of the key administrators of Old Pueblo MTB. In addition to learning all about Old Pueblo MTB… the boys and Travis discuss lots of interesting topics including the inspiring story of Travis’ recovery from a heart attack and his journey back to the trail.
There’s also a section in this podcast where we delve a bit into the topic of e-mtb’s. Travis shares how he thinks many e-bike naysayers suffer from the “broccoli-effect”. Meaning, they hate e-bikes, but they’ve never tried one (like kids often are with broccoli). If that’s you, we urge you to try out an e-mtb… we suspect you might come away with a different perspective.
About Old Pueblo MTB:
A diverse, family friendly group of people in the Tucson area joined together by our mutual love of Mountain Biking. We welcome all ages, from any walk of life. If you're new to the sport, or just want to try it out, come join us! We have skill levels from beginner to expert and we ride as often as we can. We welcome your photos, videos, questions and input. See you on the trail!
Old Pueblo MTB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/203787656312279/
Listen to Mountain Cog
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Other Podcast Sites
Socials
Instagram
Facebook
Email
mountaincog@gmail.com
We're live.
The Travis Williams:So I'd like to ask the question, first and foremost what do Mexicans cuts their pizza with?
Josh:You told us this was a racist joke and I thought you were kidding. But he wasn't kidding Little.
Dane:Caesars. That could be a Roman joke Could be a Roman joke.
Josh:Yeah, I think it's better Roman Caesars Caesar.
Dane:Italian like I guess Italian joke Caesar and Italian doesn't really go yeah.
Josh:No, I think it's Italian. Yeah, I think that's gotta be an Italian, maybe an Italian. So what do Italians cut their pizza with? Little Caesars? Little Caesars, that's funny. You do it better than I do.
The Travis Williams:Dave.
Dane:That was good, carlos. I'm just gonna say Carlos, carlos.
Josh:Oh, you got in trouble last time you talked to you're. The guys in your shop are like oh man, you're right now. Carlos was bummed.
Dane:No, I'm trying to get him to listen. He keeps saying what did you say about me? And I'm like you need to listen and he won't listen.
Josh:Oh, because he came up afterwards and said, hey, could I come on your? And then he sold me on like all of his experience and the companies he's worked for, and I was like Carlos for sure. Yeah, and we definitely owe it to you after I, after I highlighted the fact that you smell in the shop or whatever yeah, not that he, not that Carlos actually smells.
Dane:That was a joke for anyone that thinks it wasn't Carlos, not this one, but I decided I'm just going to use Carlos all the time until he starts listening.
Josh:But if he's not listening to podcasts, I'm not bringing him on.
Dane:No, that's what I'm saying, carlos.
Josh:Yes, Just so you know, buddy, it's a prerequisite to attend. You have to listen to the podcast.
Dane:And I'll ask him at the shop where your ears burning. Well, maybe you need to listen to the podcast. Why don't we ask?
The Travis Williams:Carlos what he cuts his pizza.
Josh:Oh, that's funny. I mean, if he says little ceasars it's been confirmed. It's been confirmed. It's not even a dad joke, oh my.
The Travis Williams:God, it's legit.
Josh:Oh man, I don't even have my phone on me right now, which is why I had to look to to drive us here for a dad joke, because I didn't have any available to me.
The Travis Williams:I'm glad that I could be here in psychopedia. That's perfect. That's perfect All right.
Josh:So it's a. It's Sunday night, uh uh. First Sunday of February here in 2024. And we've had a good day so far. We I had a good Sunday did a bunch of work with the boys. They're building dirt jumps out in my yard and then we went for a mountain bike ride Yep.
The Travis Williams:We did.
Josh:Stop by Croto's place and dropped off some suspension, because you're now hooked up with Croto on a kind of BDB arrangement there. Yep, yeah.
The Travis Williams:And now I think I'm having the meat sweats, yeah.
Josh:And then we grilled up some steaks and some chicken and some potatoes and some salad and some great homemade chocolate chip cookies that our guests. Well, we haven't even introduced our guests yet we probably should do that. Yeah, let's see a, a a wonderful new guest which I'd like to introduce yourself, sir. Yes.
The Travis Williams:Sure. Well, some people know me as Captain. Enthusiasm oh.
Dane:God, that's been my nickname for 20, 22 years, but uh, I like to say that I'm the Travis Williams. Yes, and I'll tell you why. Are you the?
The Travis Williams:infamous? Well, probably, but the reason I like to say that I'm the Travis Williams is because my parents didn't give me a middle name.
Josh:Oh, no, no.
Dane:I have no middle name on my birth certificate. Is that allowed?
The Travis Williams:I don't know, that was 1974.
Dane:So are you from another country or something Is?
The Travis Williams:this, like I thought you have because they gave middle names to my siblings. Yeah, so for some reason they didn't give me a middle name.
Josh:Are you the oldest?
Dane:I'm the yeah, okay, so I'm the Travis Williams. So we know that you'll never be a murderer, because you have to have a middle name to that right. Like, isn't that how it always goes?
Josh:I don't know.
Dane:All right. Well, like all the all, the news always talks. Whenever they talk about a murderer, they always put the middle name in, so they don't.
The Travis Williams:So, they don't make that.
Dane:They don't make the mistake of you know the. You know it. It specifies Do you guys know the?
Josh:milk thing. Do you know that, like, there's a psychological thing about milk so? So check this out. So if you see a man drinking milk, there's some type of unconscious feeling that humans get any male or woman that makes you feel kind of creeped out. If you see a man drinking glass of milk, so go. So as you're watching television or you're watching movies, watch. If there's like a serial killer or some creepy dude, they'll be drinking milk. They'll be a scene where he's drinking a guy, he or she, it's got to be he. He's drinking a glass of milk, that's great, I'm gonna.
Dane:I don't know how we got in that rabbit hole.
The Travis Williams:That can't be good for the milk industry.
Dane:How do we go from captain and enthusiasm to like murder creepy? It was my fault, it was totally my fault. It was the last lack of the Travis Williams Well, who doesn't have a middle name Travis Williams. Can we give you the Travis Williams? I think we should give you one.
The Travis Williams:So so funny story about that. I tried to give myself one in high school, so my dad and it went wrong.
Josh:I'll tell you how. Oh, this is going to be good.
Dane:Wait, I would like a t-shirt that says I tried to give myself one in high school. That's yeah, that could go. Anybody wants to make me that shirt. I tried to give myself one.
The Travis Williams:So so my dad's name is John Okay, and I thought it would be great if I was John Travis Williams.
Josh:I thought you tried to change your first name.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, yeah, so so I was going to make my main name my Travis my middle name. I wanted to go by JT. I thought that sounded cool, so I was about. I was probably a sophomore in high school. Well, what happened was I had subscriptions to the car magazines like Car and Driver, road and Track and Automobile, and I had them all in John Travis Williams. Well, apparently that was enough to where the United States government sent me a draft card for both Travis Williams and John Travis Williams.
Dane:No way.
The Travis Williams:So I essentially created my own second identity.
Dane:Before it was cool.
The Travis Williams:Before it was cool.
Dane:Yeah, so. So then I actually or profitable yeah, or profitable.
The Travis Williams:So I actually had like paraphernalia from, like the University of Arizona here in Tucson for for John Travis Williams and Travis Williams, oh wow, so yeah. So I created my own alternate identity in high school, but it didn't really stick. No one calls me JT to this day, until now.
Josh:Yeah, the interesting part of that story is that the University of Arizona is sending out paraphernalia. Yes, well, that was 1991.
The Travis Williams:So yeah, so that's yeah. That's why I say that I'm the Travis Williams. But to further introduce myself, I guess I'm one of the primary admins to one of what I would argue is one of the larger mountain biking clubs in Tucson called Old Pueblo MTB, and we have a vibrant community of people who ride a lot.
Dane:Yes.
The Travis Williams:And so we just have a lot of fun with it. We're just, we like to joke. Todd Rasmussen is who's our godfather and Gary Goodwin who's the other of what we call the three headed monster. Yes, Gary Todd and I, we like to joke that we're just a bunch of knuckleheads that just like to ride.
Josh:Right.
The Travis Williams:And so so, yeah, so that's what we do, and so I just somehow I think I got nominated to do a lot of the stuff that other people don't want to do, and one of those. One of those is to post the rides on on Facebook, because I guess I'm a little more savvy than the other guys in terms of technology.
Dane:So that's how I found out about you, as as all of the posts, and like these constant flow of rides, like almost every day of the week there's a ride and it's crazy.
Dane:I started going on these rides and met Travis and it was just enamored with him. He's just amazing and just just the most welcoming you know kindest like fun club that I've ever been around. It's really great. And I've been around a lot of cycling clubs and they're all great, but these guys are just. It was really just the most inclusive ride that I've ever been on.
Josh:So help me, do you guys have any? Any? I'm a data guy. If they didn't warn you, yeah, so so when you talk about one of the larger groups, like scale and scope, like what do you? What do you mean by that? Like, how large is the organization?
The Travis Williams:Yeah, that's a good, good, good question for clarification. So when I have kind of two mountain biking careers, separated by a professional photography career in which I was doing weddings, and so I stopped riding for 13 years because I couldn't afford to get injured and and then lose out on income that was kind of incoming throughout a course of a year, so when I returned to mountain biking and deemed the fact that I didn't, it was no longer a concern about getting injured in terms of my income, it was just right before the pandemic, like around January of 2020. And at the time the Facebook group old Pueblo MTB had 850 members and today, as of you know, February 1st 2024, we've got almost 4,000.
Josh:Yeah 4,000.
The Travis Williams:So we had a lot of growth in since the pandemic. I would say is probably the timeline that that happened. Obviously, we benefited a lot from the fact that people needed to be outdoors. Obviously, we know with guru bikes and the bike industry. We know what happened with biking during COVID, so we benefited from that. From for sure, but in order to benefit from that, we had to do something, and we had to actually have.
Dane:These provide a service.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, we had to provide essentially a service and so it started with. The growth started when the ride that was ongoing that happened every Sunday afternoon, was kind of the primary ride at the time with old Pueblo MTB and what happened was it was a timeframe I couldn't personally ride Is that the OG now?
Dane:Yeah.
The Travis Williams:So we call it the old school OGs and it just has to do with the fact that it's the longest standing weekly ride in the group. So I approached Todd and I said Todd, I love you guys afternoon ride on Sunday, but it's like family time. I can't ride during that time slot. I said I'd like to ride Saturday morning. Would it be okay if I posted a ride and see who else can ride on Saturday morning and he's like, yeah, go for it.
Dane:So that's how Todd is. Yeah, that's a great guy, todd's incredible.
The Travis Williams:He's just such a big fan he is one of my biggest fans, which always cracks me up, but anyway. So I posted a ride on a Saturday morning, just basically saying, hey, come ride with me, Like I'm going to be here, and just you know. People started to show up and so when they found out they could ride with the Travis Williams it exploded?
Dane:Yes, yeah it exploded.
The Travis Williams:So a lot of you know a lot of people identified with the fact that they could ride Saturday morning and once there was a posted ride and there was somewhere to be some decisions being made for them, they could just kind of join a group ride. It started to get, it started to grow and so and it was helped by the pandemic and that growth.
Dane:So we kind of.
The Travis Williams:We kind of there was a very symbiotic relationship between what we were doing at the time and what I was able to do in terms of horsepower for the group and what others around me began to follow suit with. And so we started, you know, just having a lot of weekly rides, and that's when the you know, the growth just went, you know, exponential over the course of the next yeah, and I mean months we were. We were tripled in size.
Dane:Yeah, I've got like optimum octane og Midday. These are all the different.
Josh:Yeah, they're talking, they even have themes you know, which are great.
Dane:Okay so, and then Travis, I've never seen somebody type so much. He types so much. He'll just text me and it'll be like four pages long. That's insane.
The Travis Williams:Well, and then I'll legendary those.
Dane:So here's the crazy part of that text. It's four pages long. I'll answer him in like two words, like sounds good, and then I'll get four more pages immediately. I'm like I don't know how he does it. I think he's got him saved.
Josh:Were you that patient that you. I'm put the chip in his head.
The Travis Williams:Well, so here, so I'm gonna reveal a secret about this. Okay, I'm gonna reveal a secret. Let's just talk about confession. Okay, oh, is there a confession?
Dane:Oh, we should totally do confession. Oh, there we go.
Josh:All right, confession time. I didn't know we had special effects. Sorry man, we are excited right now.
The Travis Williams:Confession with JT so On my macbook I have iMessages on the computer, so what I do is I'll I'll ping a thread that then will bring it to the top of my iMessages on my computer and then I can start texting with typing with a keyboard, and I type in 120 words a minute.
Dane:Oh my god.
The Travis Williams:So that's where my books come from as. I just and I'm an over communicator like I'm a big fan of Leaving nothing to the imagination in terms of community.
Josh:So, just so you know, this is going to be a five hour podcast. Yes, no one has ever ever accused me of brevity between you and dain, I'm in trouble. Well, so the nice thing about.
Dane:That is when he does post these rides. He's got good descriptions. It helps people know where they're at no surprises, yeah, no surprises, yeah no surprises, and so it, the communication, works, and especially if you're new to it, you don't have that back knowledge of like what sweet water is. You know like oh, we're gonna meet at sweet water. You know I I'd make that mistake all the time. Meet at sweet water five o'clock, See you later and that's it.
Dane:Yeah, and he's like got directions and he even has gps coordinates, you know, and all kinds.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, that's a great point that you make dain, because essentially what I want, what I wanted to make sure was very known, is what someone was getting into.
The Travis Williams:So if you're going to go to a ride at sweet water and you haven't really been or you know, you're concerned about going on a group ride, that ride having the description and an and an expectation of the distance you're going to go and how long you're going to ride and what the level of the ride is, and then even a descriptor that says something like this is, this ride has opportunity for beginner rides, and then you can add Into the ride different routes that add it, make it a little bit more intermediate or something like that.
The Travis Williams:So the ride names that I'm pretty famous for things I name, yeah, so Yep, so the ride names for me was just a way to tell a ride apart. So we had midday mayhem or rides in the wintertime that start after 10 am. Yeah, there's dawn patrol, which are rides in the summer that start between 6 and 9 am. And then we had rides like that were more difficult, which were like the optimum octane rides, and I would give the description that this is one of the most, um, difficult rides that we put out and they're the only version of a ride where there might be a drop, like almost all of our rides are no drop, meaning that you can come on the ride and no matter what.
The Travis Williams:We're not going to leave you behind, but the optimum octane was that ride, that people and you're gonna go out and crush, yeah, that that you know not to go on that ride if you're concerned about being left behind or it's not, and they're usually done at trails that are far more difficult than the average trail. So the naming of the rides became important to me to communicate what the Expectations were when you went on them, and then that kind of just grew from there.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, so you know you have weekday wakeups which are average average, you know, run in the mill, kind of beginner to intermediate rides. That happened during the week. You've got the dirt divas rides, which are the women specific rides, and the women are doing incredible things in our group. Yeah, the dirt divas are just special people again that inclusivity. Yeah, the inclusivity and the safety. You know we could talk a whole episode and a whole podcast on women riding in the dirt divas, but the, the safe.
Josh:We should have. We should have.
The Travis Williams:Maybe you can make some introductions we should have them on to just to talk specifically about that.
Josh:We have a we have a, for whatever reason, we have a large demographic of female Listeners, from 18 to 26, as a matter of fact, like 40 percent of our listeners, or that's amazing, wow into 26.
The Travis Williams:That's amazing. Yeah and and that, and then you know so one of the, and they can't even see us.
Dane:So they know which is why, which is why we have a demographic.
Josh:Yeah, we made that joke about 40 times on this podcast. As soon as we go to video, we're gonna lose that demographic completely.
Dane:Somebody asked me that are you gonna do video? I'm like I don't have a face. I have a face for a radio.
Josh:Yeah, so that's why we picked your name.
The Travis Williams:You match, so the thing, the thing that's great about that is that you know there's a lot of women that are concerned about going on rides with men, just as if they might be in concerned about going to the gym with men, and and so you know so anyway. So there's the dirt divas rides, there's the optimum octane, there's the midday mayhem, there's the dawn patrols, there's the weekday wakeups, there's rookie roundups, which are one of my personal favorites. It gives you a chance to introduce new people to the sport, which goes to the idea, and one of the core tenants of old Pueblo MTB is Inclusivity, which is what I think. There's, something that can translate to any market. Right anywhere that you live, you can include people in a mountain biking community, specifically by Hosting opportunities for new people to get involved in the sport right.
The Travis Williams:You know and and create in a safe space where those people who feel confident in their mountain biking skills Can go and introduce people to and show people what it's like to ride in the dirt in the. In this area in the southwest Of the united states, we have to ride around cactus.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, you know, which is very different than if you ride in the Pacific Northwest or something. So the rookie roundups have been one of my personal favorites in terms of stuff that we do. An old Pueblo MTB that has just been a huge hit.
Dane:Yeah, we're starting to do kids. I love that. Yeah, you know, bringing kids into it and getting them into it earlier.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, we have like. So we've got a couple of guys that have the younger kids that we call the little shredders edition.
The Travis Williams:Right of the, and then we'll do Um big tent events with local sponsors. Like we have a youtube channel here in Tucson called trail monsters and and he'll usually host a tent and have snacks and usually do some giveaways and then, and then he has great videos on mountain biking in Tucson on his channel and so so we do a lot of fun stuff like that and it's just. When there's a ride for almost anyone, it gives a lot of opportunity and a lot of connection points. And then once you meet people that are on those rides, that are like-minded, then you start exchanging phone numbers, then you start texting people hey, I want to go ride. And then if you're even if you're not riding on one of our group rides, the community that you create, um Is just. It can be life changing. For instance and I'm going to shout out a friend here, that's well, I know we'll be listening to this podcast, because she already told me she would.
The Travis Williams:But Amanda Weinstein is just a wonderful friend of mine and and love her dearly and and she got connected to the community. I want to say and she'll probably correct me if I'm wrong but I think she got connected through a rookie roundup. She lived nearby fantasy island, which was a local trail that's very popular right where she lives and it's also a very easy trail to host a rookie roundup at. And so she came and joined us for a rookie roundup and has made some incredible friends and has found a place where she belongs and and has, and now we see her riding all the time with a little group of friends that that live right close by, when they can get out in a moment's notice and just go, and so that that to me like that success. You know she found a connection point to a larger group, created a community, now has a core group of friends in addition to always being, uh, involved in the group rides as well.
Dane:So it's just, it's really seeing the world is just awesome. She's seeing people come in their first time Going a ride, feel welcomed, feel secure. You know and not not. You know, not feeling like they'll be left behind and then you know a year later they're leading the rides. Yeah.
The Travis Williams:You're not wrong. I mean, that's amanda, does that? She? She, she'll now lead a rookie roundup of her own. She's also one of the key dirt divas and so she's constantly reaching out to new women and inviting them to their events. Yeah, and to see her go from someone who was outside of the group Made some connections, got on a ride, moving then into leadership of a ride, you know, and she was very hesitant when I reached out and I said amanda, you can lead this ride. Yeah, you know, and I empowered her and encouraged her and she got out and did and she had a lot of fun and now she's great at and she does those and so that's the journey right. And then she's pulling. Now she's a point of pulling new people into the sport and and having having people helping them find their place in the community and that's real rewarding and and just you can see it give amanda purpose and meaning and and she and she benefits because she's got great friends.
Josh:Yeah you know we've talked about this a bunch of times on the podcast We've had. We've had a number of, you know, women in the sport, either advocates of other riders or great female athletes On the podcast in the past and I think without exception, they've all said the same thing Like ride with other women. Yeah, like that's the key. And I can't tell you like how many guys have bought their either girlfriend or wife, you know a bike and and then they go out and ride with their Significant other and the guys bark and do this and do that and do this and that's not the environment that helps them flourish and Take a love for the sport. So like it's amazing that dirt divas and your group has that opportunity for women. Go ride if you're, if you're a, if you're a woman and you're interested in this, go ride with other women.
Dane:So I got a quick story. I like to throw these out there once a while, but uh, when I was Special effects. I'm not gonna get used to this, wait, oh, thanks, uh. So when I was running teams, uh, I had a team that I was running, a local team, and we had men and women on the team. It was great. And I remember, uh, one of our riders in the middle of a race stopping In the middle of the race to help one of her competitors Fix a flat.
Josh:Yeah. Do you know any men that would do that? I don't know.
Dane:She got done and we're like what are you doing? You know the guys, you know we're like what are you doing?
Josh:Why did you?
Dane:stop. What are you doing? You're losing the race. You're helping your competitor. She's like she needed help and I just want to help her. And I was like I honestly changed my mind at that point and and it went from being this kind of person who wanted to just win at all costs to this is a knight, I want to be more like her. And there's a sticker, um, that we had made, that said ride like a girl. And I put that on my bike and I'm not even kidding and it was because of that kindness and that inclusivity and that, that, that mentality, and I was like I want to be like that. That's awesome.
The Travis Williams:So we have on the dirt divas jersey, which we made specifically for the women. It has a. The logo was created by david montreal, one of our members, and there's a woman Riding across the top of the logo and she's got a ponytail flying out and that was modeled after a photo of Of anna valdez, yeah, who's one of the most badass women writers that I know, like she's incredible. And so the tagline ride like a girl is on there and and in our group and probably likewise in other areas of the nation. Ride like a girl is like, is like, not like the old, like. Oh, you throw a baseball like a girl.
Dane:Yeah, no, no, it's actually like a girl is the opposite.
The Travis Williams:It's like there are so many badass women in the sport and we we, an old Pueblo MTB have a great group of them that it just makes it really, really fun.
Josh:You know what's interesting? We got like three old white dudes here. Yeah, and we're talking about how awesome the female cycling community and riders are, and there's no women here to hold us accountable here.
Dane:No, no, this is like just like from the bottom of the heart, except for the one in the corner with the gun.
The Travis Williams:But I do believe that you're married to one of them.
Josh:Yeah, she is amazing.
The Travis Williams:She's a legend.
Josh:I knew the name before I met her, you're like oh, you're the Lacey, yeah, the Lacey, yeah I don't.
The Travis Williams:She must have a. She maybe has a middle name, Otherwise she would be the Lacey funny story.
Josh:She does not. What so this way, she doesn't have a middle name. So check this out, so you have a button that does Twilight Zone.
Dane:Is that Twilight Zone? Is that close enough? Close enough?
Josh:Alright. So her parents said they weren't going to give her a middle name, so when she got married she could keep her maiden name as her middle name. So her name's Lacey Hoops Anderson. It's not hyphenate or anything. She's Lacey Anderson but her, so she keeps that connection back to her family. You know, without doing doing a hyphenated name. I thought that was most awesome thing ever.
The Travis Williams:Well, that's not entirely uncommon, Like my wife's middle name. Her name is Heidi Ann Williams before she, or sorry, heidi Ann Grohockey before we got married, and then, when we got married, she kicked the Ann out. Now it's Heidi Grohockey Williams which is not hyphenated either.
Dane:Yeah.
The Travis Williams:But. But it's interesting that there's yet another adult who doesn't have a middle name.
Josh:That's really weird. She has one, now this is two. Yeah, now she does. Her maiden name is, but she, yeah, and her dad was like hey, listen, this is a way that you can keep the connection to the family. You'll get a middle name when you get married.
Dane:I've been alive for 27 years and I've never heard of that.
The Travis Williams:Did you say you've been alive for 27 years? Bullshit.
Josh:I was hoping you'd skip over that. Hey you're not supposed to point that out.
The Travis Williams:No, I don't miss anything. You're in trouble. That means you had.
Josh:Jillian, when you were like what?
Dane:I don't know 14.
Josh:I had to take my shoes off to do the math, hey so I got a question for you, just for our international listeners here. What the hell is an old Pueblo?
The Travis Williams:Oh, great question. Yeah, so the area of the country we live in in the Southwest desert is, as a city, named Tucson, and the nickname for Tucson is widely believed to be the old Pueblo, so it's a nickname for the city in the area we live in, and so we back when we started old Pueblo MTB in 2011,. The idea was that it was the inclusive area around the Tucson, you know in surroundings areas?
Dane:Yeah, right on, yeah, so you're not pointing out suburbs and things like that.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, it's just the old Pueblo.
Dane:An old Pueblo. You know, that's the old indigenous people. They would make their, their cities, called Pueblos. Yeah, and they're all over. In fact, one of the, the trails that we ride all the time, has tons of you know I always say the strong pictographs or petroglyphs Petroglyphs.
The Travis Williams:Thank you, high. Hieroglyphics or hieroglyphics.
Dane:Yep, so clip art, whatever.
The Travis Williams:I've always said that those, those were either created in the 1600s or 1947.
Josh:Well, one of the two or 2018 tangent tangent.
Dane:I've realized that I think most of those are the adults in the indigenous people were doing work and the kids are the ones that did those.
Josh:That's like there.
Dane:That's my theory. I have no idea and in fact one of our guests in the future is going to be an archaeologist that studies those.
Josh:Awesome, hey. So let's just let's set a new ground rule when you're about to go down a rabbit hole, you don't have to call it out.
Dane:Oh, that's just what we do. It's just fun though. Tangent rabbit hole, that's just what we do here. We get like way. Sometimes people really tune in just for the rabbit holes If they don't like the rabbit holes.
Josh:They're not listening. I can tell you that.
The Travis Williams:Maybe, maybe. What we need is, like you know when, when Morpheus holds out the red pill oh yeah, one of them is we'll go down the rabbit hole.
Dane:How deep it goes. You can just name it the blue pill.
The Travis Williams:Okay, I got a blue pill comment yeah. Or there's got to be a button on this thing that you can make it sound like the matrix.
Dane:Oh yeah.
Josh:That's, I don't know I can add as many as we need.
Dane:So I like the, can you dig it? So that's pretty good, that's one of our things, okay.
Josh:So, um, okay, so you were, you know, pre COVID you were 854,000. At this point you talked about, like the rides that you did. You know, it seems to me that, like your recipe of, like catering to you know a women's specific market, brand new riders that are coming in all the way up to your what you call it high octane, or what?
The Travis Williams:the optimum? Optimal, yeah, so for the most advanced riders and rides done on the most advanced trails, yeah.
Josh:So you have like, and then now kids, you have like something for everybody and I mean that's got to be part of the, the calculus, of the algorithm that helped you guys grow. So so quite possibly.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, I think I think, for what's so exciting about it is there was a. There was a point at which you know like I was a initial instigator of a ride time that just worked well for me and then other people followed suit. Like you know, there's no way that that growth would have happened with one person doing that.
Josh:Like it.
The Travis Williams:what's really great about it is over the years, more and more people have been inspired to lead their own rides Like you know now I'll have people reach out and say, hey, I'm available to ride at this time.
The Travis Williams:Can we post a ride and can we see if anyone else can join me? And the answer is always yes, let's do that, like I mean, that's exactly how I got started, Right, so we're really in favor of that kind of thing. And and then what you see is kind of the thing that Dane experienced when he found us was just this constant stream of opportunities to ride, and I think that that is what largely makes us a little bit different in the marketplace in our local areas, that we just we do a lot of riding. There's no if fans or butts around, that that is what we do, like we don't a lot of groups and I've been a part of groups around the Southwest United States a lot of them talk about riding and we just do a lot of riding.
Dane:So yeah, my, my schedule is always variable. I never know. And the night before, like literally 12 hours before I can ride, I find out I can go on a ride. I get on the computer, go to old Pueblo, look at events and there's always a ride and then I can jump on that ride and it's great. And then, if I know in advance that I can do a ride, I reach out to Travis and say, hey, I'm going to do a ride, and if you guys aren't doing one, let's build one.
Josh:So you know, you know, it's, it's. There's been an interesting change in this podcast since since you came on.
The Travis Williams:Oh no, no, no, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. It's a rabbit hole thing.
Josh:So it's not a rabbit hole, but I just want to.
The Travis Williams:I want to, I want to thank you. No, no, it's not a pill. It's not a pill as long as it's the red pill.
Josh:So like when I first sent Dane the email and said hey, you know, after, after Mike said I can't do this and something, dane, the email 12 hours later, responded hell yeah, and I was like that was a big smile and I said hey man, let's get together. And you said Okay, cool, let's go do a ride and then we'll meet at at a. I can't. We were going to ride the Urban Assault Trail.
Dane:And what's the?
Josh:hop shop, hop shop, yeah. And I was like that's awesome. And then I was like, hey, let's record here. And he goes, okay, cool, we'll go do a ride, and then we'll, and then, and then it's like always unless I come.
Josh:When you close the shop and you're working right after work it's always like like let's go do a ride, then do a podcast yeah. And before it was like I got to do a ride Sometime and then later I'm going to do a podcast, yeah. But now it's like they're combined yeah, so like you're reemphasizing the writing and combining it together, which is super great. That's cool.
Dane:So that's selfish. I got to tell you no, I know, no, no, but my selfish I know, because my wife only lets me out of the house so often. I know.
Josh:I know exactly where it's coming from.
Dane:Like, if I can, if I can pull off a ride and a podcast, it's such a win because I can get two things that I want to do yeah yeah, no, I'm all in Well, and for you it's actually a three for, because you get a child to join you.
Josh:Oh, today is the first time, julie and she I mean please bring kids.
Dane:So my, my daughter went on a ride today and I love my daughter. She's overactive in all kinds of things, so I get to don't get to ride with her as much and man, she's just so fast.
Dane:She's getting so good, so fast it's. It's awesome. And my son is going to be coming up soon. You know he's get, he's learning and getting faster and so I can't wait for that. I'm, as a dad, as much as I want to go out and pin it and go do technical and do all this other crazy stuff, I am super enjoying this day. You got to put the time and time, yeah, plus, you know, what I figured out today is I have a dad bod and so now I can, like I can totally just ride behind my daughter and nobody makes fun of me for going slow Like wow, isn't that awesome, that's the best use of kids on the trail.
Dane:And soon she's going to be faster than me, but then I have my son, so I got a good five years that I can be slow and nobody will know. That's true, yeah, so well.
The Travis Williams:Riding with a family member is is really special, and my wife doesn't ride. She had an encounter with a snake at 50 year trail and a local trail here in Tucson and that was the end of her mountain biking career. She she's cactus and snake on the same trail trail ride.
Dane:So everything here wants to kill you. She's done, yeah.
The Travis Williams:So, but my son, right around the pandemic, when I got back into riding, you know, because he was then off of school as well and or at least for a bit there, and so he got on the bike with me. What time. He was five foot one and he could ride the same size bike that I could pretty much. As of today, he's in shoes, he's pushing six, four, wow. So he, he doesn't fit a bike, so he's been, he's been, unable to ride with me. Well, recently I met a friend who I'll shout out here because I love him dearly. His name is David Adams and he's six foot three.
The Travis Williams:And so I was going to go up and ride Browns Ranch in Phoenix area, which is a very easy, fun Disneyland-ish type trail, and so I reached out to David Adams. I said, hey, would it be okay if my son borrowed your, your bike? He has a two XL or the size s six, yeah, a specialized Levo, and. And so it fit him perfectly. And so he and I got a chance to go. We did a pre ride out and a local trail called Honeybee Canyon, and then we went. The next day on actually it was New Year's Day we did a day trip up to Phoenix, which, from where I live, was about a two hour drive, and so we just got to just enjoy a really fun ride together and experience that together and take some photos together. That will be meaningful and and that's really huge. And so sitting in this room with two other guys that ride a lot with their kids and their families, you know, I know Lacey obviously is a legend so.
The Travis Williams:Lacey now I know that you're not only a legend, but it's because you don't have a middle name until you got married.
Dane:So we have that no middle name from birth thing.
The Travis Williams:So, at any rate, and and so there is an element of that riding with a family member that is also very important in a tenant of old Pueblo MTB Was, was this inclusivity, the idea of the rookie roundups? It was an opportunity to bring a family member on a ride that you know like. If you, if you ride a lot and you're out on trails that are difficult and you have a kid who's getting into it, like you can't go on the same trails, like you have to go to dedicated rides that involve your, you're either your kids, or maybe your wife gets into the sport later after you, or or you're the wife and your husband gets into the later on by the way, that's me.
Josh:Yeah, okay, well, that makes you probably already know, after you rode with me today.
The Travis Williams:So. So having those opportunities to bring new, new people into the sport or ride with people who are Newer than you are, specifically family members, is just one of those things. That is why the rookie roundup in particular is really important to me personally, just because I had so much fun riding with. As little as I've had a chance to ride with my son, because now he's outgrown, just have been any bike you can make or is made, but in addition to that he's in it. He's in a high school sport year round, almost in basketball, where he can't afford to get injured. So that's why he doesn't ride with me very frequently. But those things are important. Having having opportunities to ride with family members and create those experiences you know, like when you do these, these shop Trips, you know, and as your kids get older, yes, you know something he's probably already experiencing as you get a chance to invite those family members along and now those become family trips.
Dane:Yes, that's and you're not.
The Travis Williams:You're not out of pocket or away from the family. Yeah, you're actually involving the family. There's a there's a killer family here in Tucson. The arm bursts. Oh yeah, Adam, and and his wife's name is escaping me at the moment if they listen this podcast.
Josh:I'm sorry she's gonna kill you.
Dane:Yeah, Mrs Armburst You're incredible.
Josh:This and you have.
The Travis Williams:And then you guys have two kids who I won't share their names, but anyways, the four of them, like I'll pull up to 50 your trailhead and they'll all be unloading out of the vehicle or we'll run into them. Think I ran into them, maybe at Hawes trail in. Phoenix, a couple hours away, you know, and you run in and then they just, oh, they're just fun to see in there and they're enjoying the sport as a whole family.
The Travis Williams:Yeah and and that was one of the things that I wanted the rookie roundup to be about was a place you can involve the whole family and and enjoy something like this together, and Then the women can find other women and then go ride without their husbands. Yeah or you know, like with the dirt divas, or the guys can go. You know a husband can get into it with his wife but then realize he can go ride Other times without his wife and come out and ride with other guys.
Dane:So yeah, I went on a rookie roundup with Jilly and she Separated from me because I was riding with Turner and he's at a slower pace than she is, and she just had a blast. She just rode with the other group and just had this great time. We were still together as a family, you know, out there and I was with Turner, but then at the end of the ride we came back together and it was just that that I knew that my daughter was in good hands.
Josh:You know, when you split off. Today we did, we did a short ride and Jilly rode, rode with us. Yeah and you split off today just the last couple miles or whatever, and she did a great job. She's like oh my, do you want me to go first? You want to go first. She's like I want to go first.
The Travis Williams:I'm like all right, punk rock go.
Josh:And I was like take your next right, take your next left. And then we got to one section. It's got a little tricky down how I'm like, once you follow me down this and I'll, you know, show you the line so you don't get yourself in trouble. And she's like, okay, I'm like at the bottom, I'll stop and you can go around me. And she did awesome.
Dane:Yeah, she's, she, she gets it, she's, she's very competitive, which I love. Sometimes it gets her in trouble.
Josh:But mr Duh, mr Downhill racer guy, way more. Do you think she got that from?
Dane:oh yeah, you know what I think I did that rabbit hole.
Josh:You don't have to call it out, dave.
Dane:Music oh, that's good, that's good, okay. So rabbit hole is the you know something funny?
Josh:I don't know what these buttons do, oh.
Dane:Should just start using the colors there needs to be one with like a motorcycle skid, like so when I was, when the kids were small, I would tell them to get them to go to bed. You know, hey, it's time for bed near now. We don't want to go to bed, and they would fight me on it. Whoever gets to bed first wins, and I started that early.
Dane:Oh, that's good, so I think it's me and I caused this competitiveness. And now they, they are super competitive. They raise the bed. Oh yeah, big time, big time. And if, in fact I use it all the time if and you know now I have to worry that Jillie's gonna listen to this and figure out my secret, but whenever I need them to do something, I'll just bring up. Well, you know, turner got to it to do that quick and Jillie's like I'm gonna go do it now. So it's, it's been a dad trick that I used and so I probably caused it so nice.
Josh:Travis, let me make an offer to you. I'm six foot three. Okay, all my bikes are extra large. Nice, if you ever come on this side of town, your son's welcome to come. I've got a. You said the specialized. You saw me ride cross-country bike. I got a girly gravity smash and I've got a light speed gravel bike.
Josh:So if any of those are of any interest, I'm sure we could get him fit and get it get his, you know, dial up the or dial down the pressure a little bit, because I'm probably a little heavier than your son, I would imagine yeah, soaking wet.
The Travis Williams:He's about 155. Yes, we have to take a bunch of air out, but but he's welcome anytime.
Josh:I've got a shit that amateur bike shop I can get to set up for him really quick.
Dane:I've seen it, it's yeah, I don't know if I'd call it amateur so I was hoping to shift gears a little bit and Talk about Travis as a person and your riding experience and some of the stuff that you went to through. I know you had some health issues and I would love to. I hope you're okay with sharing that for sure, 100%, because I I found it personally inspiring.
Josh:Yeah, definitely there might be other folks going through something. Yeah, and to hear like your story and what you went through and where you're at today, I think could be inspiring to some other folks. So whatever you're willing to share, man.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, on board for sure. Yeah, you know I mentioned earlier to mountain biking careers and both of them were related and Revolving around health situations. So when I got introduced to the sport I wasn't a much of. I played basketball in high school, but outside of that I wasn't a very athletic guy, and by playing basketball in high school I mean I rode the bench for four years.
Josh:You made the team man Come on.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, I did make the team, but it was a 1a like small school. Like you know, we had 26 we don't have to qualify.
Josh:Okay, that's a rabbit hole so.
The Travis Williams:So you know, it was always a struggle for me to find something I wanted to do for exercise, because when I was exercising I always thought I hate this, but but when I found mountain biking, it gave me the opportunity to do exercise and not think about. It was like you know, it's like you're like riding like having a lot of fun and yeah, yeah, it's hard and it's exercise, but there was always a lot of reward, yeah so I picked up a mountain biking when a couple friends introduced me to it and in late 2001 and I had a.
The Travis Williams:I enjoyed it, got into it real quickly. One of my first bikes was a khs Softtail oh yeah, I had that little tiny spring on the seatpost to try to fix this.
Dane:I tried to fix the suspension on the seatpost. Yeah, it's like a moots YBB.
Josh:Okay, but it's on the seat. Stay, yeah, yeah, where the?
The Travis Williams:stays. Come up to the. Yeah to the seatpost.
Josh:Yeah, I was imagining the seatpost just bouncing.
Dane:What's the rock shark had one. Yeah, there's a few of them so so I got.
The Travis Williams:I got a kind of it's an entry-level bike. It was about 400 bucks in 2001, so it was an entry-level bike got into mountain biking and enjoyed it a lot and and had a significant crash in November of 2002 and Broke my collarbone, separated my shoulder and I got an awesome scar to show for it. Nice and a pretty good story. I wrecked it up at the 24 hours of old Pueblo course cool and when in the technical section. Coming down to the, to the rock right.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, to the tent yeah not during the race, like I never that. It happened before the race. We were just riding the course.
Dane:Yeah so.
The Travis Williams:So during that downtime I was on a weight loss journey and During that downtime my dad and I built. He bought a matching Ellsworth truths, yeah, and it was the first time that I got a full suspension dude.
Josh:Yeah, they're Ellsworth, I know yeah, I'm an Ellsworth guy.
Dane:There's like four of you into I have.
Josh:You get done with your story. Yeah, talk about Ellsworth, because I want to understand how you ended up there, and I'm wonder if it's the same reason I ended up there.
The Travis Williams:Interesting. Well, the how I ended up there is really easy. My dad bought it for me.
Dane:Okay so okay.
The Travis Williams:So he bought two frames and we ended up building up these Ellsworth truths while I was in downtime. Well, coming out of that, in February of 2003 so 21 years ago, almost to the weekend, I was Back on the bike and as as a coach for our corporate team for the 24 hours of old Pueblo, which is just two weeks away from happening here in our local market. I don't they've been doing it more than 25 years.
Dane:Yes.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, so, so. So I began to ride with my dad talking about riding with family members. I got him into the sport and he went crazy. He he's an anesthesiologist with expendable income and he he went with disposable income I guess is a better way to say that. But anyways, he went crazy with mountain biking. But we got a chance to ride together and we he built that bike for me and so I. I went on to lose like 55 pounds at the time, nice, and so that was my.
The Travis Williams:So my first foot mountain biking journey was was my finding an exercise that I enjoyed to do that I didn't feel like I was exercising.
The Travis Williams:So from 2000 and basically late 2001 or early 2002 to about 2007 was my first mountain biking career. Then I became a wedding photographer and kind of took a back, you know, stepped away from the sport because of the risk potential for injury and Because I had already experienced an injury and at the time I was I was a computer Technician and I was having to climb under desks and stuff. So I did lose some income being injured from a mountain biking accident. So I knew what, what was a potential. So I stepped away for 13 years from to basically 2007 to 2020. Well, so in 2020, I just knew it was time for me to get back on a bike and I and I was no longer worried about the risk of my my career being derailed by an injury. So I got a bike Black Friday of 2019. It was a trek, roscoe, and what was cool is so cool about the difference in bikes in those 13 years geometry.
Josh:I mean, the geometry was a shit.
The Travis Williams:I had a dropper post. I had I, you know, even though I like to clip in and did put clip-in pedals on that bike, flat pedals were very popular now, and so yeah so I got what? For 1200 bucks I got a pretty nice bike. You know, I would argue that it was almost as nice as the Ellsworth truth.
Josh:Shut the front door. Yeah, maybe that's a front door. Maybe that's not, come on, sorry, tony, I know he's an avid listener. So yeah, nice, Thank you.
Dane:So we hang out yeah so then.
The Travis Williams:So so I got, you know, a Bike for a reasonable price at that time and got back into it in 2020 and and we talked about me creating group rides and the growth that old Pueblo experience at that time but for me, that was another, another kind of me getting my health journey, or my health, back on track for the most part. And so, you know, got into very regular riding. And then, in the Summer of 2002, I had a heart attack and you know I wouldn't necessarily say it came out of nowhere. I mean 2022.
Josh:Yeah, what it said 2002.
The Travis Williams:Oh, excuse me, yeah, so. So this would have been like 18 months ago, essentially, yeah, so July 18th of 2022, so when that happened, you had that, did it.
Josh:Was it on the bike that you had the no, no?
The Travis Williams:that's a good, good part. Point of clarification. Ironically, I was riding the day before, so I went out on a ride the day before I. Well, two weeks prior to the heart attack, I slept weird on my neck and I think this is still true, even though it seems like it was related to the heart attack but I had a kink in my neck, that from a sleeping weird, and it affected me like, just like I thought, okay, I probably need to go to a chiropractor, yeah well, so over the course of two, those two weeks leading up to the heart attack and dealing with what I thought what I believe is still Was a quick in the neck or something, I was still riding and I rode.
The Travis Williams:You know, the week before the heart attack I I rode a decent ride, like I was riding pretty hard, and and so the day before the heart attack was a Sunday, we went out to a local trail called honeyby Canyon and went out with a bunch of friends on a group ride and about a mile and a Half into it I thought, oh, this quick in my neck is causing me nausea and dizziness and what have you.
The Travis Williams:And so I Said to the friends I said, hey, I'm gonna turn back. You know, this is just you know. I said I, you know I think I need to go see a chiropractor to get this pinched nerve or whatever corrected. So, sure enough, I go back, you know, to the car and when I go into the kitchen, my wife's like oh, you're back already. And I said, yeah, you know this quick in my next, really bothering me. So the rest of that was a Sunday, and Then the next morning it was Monday, the 18th of July of 2022, and I, about 1145 in the morning, I I started to have the same dizziness and nausea and the.
The Travis Williams:The symptom that hit me, that really surprised me, which I don't even think is super well documented, was the cold sweats interesting and the cold sweats just overcame me, and so I remember stepping away from the computer because I had a work from home computer job and I stepped away from the computer so I just need to lie down for like three minutes, so I, so I laid down for three minutes and then just in my head I was like, oh, I need to Get up and Google, like what are the symptoms of heart attack?
Dane:Oh, wow.
The Travis Williams:So I did that, I googled it and I was like, oh my god, I'm having like five of these seven.
Dane:Symptoms and so so was it the arm? No, I'm like I don't know the symptoms, I'm just, yeah, it was. I see the nausea nausea, dizziness.
The Travis Williams:Tightness of breath is what I had, not not shortness of breath.
The Travis Williams:Okay and then the cold sweats was the big one, and then I also had like Tightness of the shoulder blades. I didn't I don't recall specifically having issues down the arm, mm-hmm, it was more like I felt like just tightness in the upper shoulder. And so my dad, who's a at the he was an anesthesiologist but he's been retired for many years I called him and I said hey, you know, I think I'm having a heart event. You know, I didn't want to. I didn't want to call it a heart attack at that.
The Travis Williams:Yeah because I didn't know, because you're coherent.
Dane:It's not. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
The Travis Williams:So. So he said hey, I think you need to get to the hospital and get an EKG and find out what's going on. So I do my. My kids were home because it was summer and my daughter had her driver's permit, and so they took me down to the hospital, which, fortunately, was only like seven miles, seven minutes away. It's very close to Oral Valley Hospital.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, and so I go into the emergency room and it took a little bit during my my Stay in the emergency room, for 15 minutes in the waiting room I went from a threshold of like two pain down to about five, like up to five and. And then they got me in and they did an EKG. And then they took me back and said we want to get you into a onto, into a hotel or a hospital bed here. And During that time, just sitting in the hallway waiting, and then my dad came and sat with me, I Went from a five to like a 10, like I was pretty sure at that point I'm dying. I'm like literally dying in front of my dad. And so then they finally got me into a hospital bed and then the cardiologist came in and he says you know, you're dead. We've confirmed you're having a heart attack, we're gonna get you up to the carth lab right away and we're gonna put a stent in.
Dane:Oh, wow.
The Travis Williams:And so what they were able to determine was the right side, the big, the bigger, I guess, and it's not a called the carotid artery, whatever that right side of the heart is was Basically a hundred percent blocked. Wow, it was like 90 percent blocked, but a piece like broke off and like lodged, and so it was now a hundred percent blocked. And so I'm, when they got me into the car slab, like within 15 minutes, they went in through my, my elbow joint and or no, it was right in right behind my wrist, actually, by wear a watch, where, where you would wear a watch, they went in through the wrist and they were able to put the stint and while I was awake. They don't put you entirely out for that.
Josh:You get to like sun, like sunset, sleep or whatever. We were like half in, half out probably, but I, but I could dialogue with them.
The Travis Williams:I remember asking him like what's going on? And yeah, and so the moment that that Stint went in, I Went from a 10 pain level down to like a one like it's just the blood flow Reappearing or now being completely open pathway changed everything, and so I was very fortunate and that I didn't. They didn't have to like crack a chest or anything like that, so my recovery was almost just exclusively. Hey, whatever damage the heart attack did to your heart is Maybe some of it's irreversible, but there's a healing process, and that healing process was about this would have been July 18th and I was fully cleared for all activities with no restrictions, by September 27th. Wow, so that's a little over eight weeks.
The Travis Williams:Yeah and so that event was, you know, obviously life-changing. And there's a lot of things I look at and I say, wow, if these, all these Dominoes didn't fall in a certain way like I wouldn't be here again.
The Travis Williams:I wouldn't be here now, today, and so I like to say that this is my second chance and so, like, my birthday is August 5th, but it's not nearly as important to me as July 18th, which I would call my second chance birthday. That's all. So I'm in. I'm in, you know, coming up on my second, second chance birthday, my second anniversary. So. So what happened was, during that time, dear friends of mine in the mountain biking community, they, they, came to me and said, hey, we've got an e-bike that we would love to have you try out during your recovery, and so you know I was, of course, a static because when they began to release me to like go walking and do these like light Exercises, I'm like I don't walk, I don't walk, I don't hike like I like.
The Travis Williams:Right like the only reason I walk is if my bike is broken. And if my bike is broken, it's at Dane's shop, at guru getting fixed and he doesn't let it stay broken very long. So yeah, which I'm very thankful for. So. But so I got an opportunity to try an e-bike and for me, you know, started out really easy, just toodling around the neighborhood. And one of the cool things was I wear a whoop band and this is not a commercial for whoop band, but if they could sponsor this podcast that'd be fine.
Josh:Whoop, whoop.
The Travis Williams:Hex us up at gmailcom yes. Yes, so the we could use one yeah so I've been wearing a whoop band for two years prior to the heart attack, right, so I've got you if you're a data guy.
Josh:I am dude.
The Travis Williams:Okay, so I can tell you a little bit about how that later.
Josh:Yeah, the differences between. I've analyzed it. But yeah, yep.
The Travis Williams:So I have a lot of data on rides that I did and this is why tortellita is a very interesting ride, because I can do it. I can do a ride at tortellita, which is exactly what I can do, a ride at tortellita, which is exactly a 10 mile loop, and you can, and I can, compare a ride on an e-bike to what a ride I did before the heart attack.
Josh:Yeah, talk about data.
The Travis Williams:So, anyways, all that to say is that I could have like my heart rate on the handlebars and I could analyze, I could see real time, and so, early on, the restriction was hey, don't let your heart rate go above like 105. So I could very easily, so the e-bike allowed me to add power actually ride.
Josh:Yeah, I took it near because keeping your heart rate at 105 on a mountain bike ride is hard.
The Travis Williams:It's hard, yeah, so. So I was able to use the bike to allow me to get out and ride instead of walk and and and Escalate through the healing process the whole time, and for that I'm forever grateful, you know to, to Denny and Pat Reader, for that opportunity to ride this, this e-bike, and, as a result, as I got cleared for full riding and just got out on the e-bike, it's a million smiles an hour.
The Travis Williams:Yeah it's just, you know, just grinning ear to ear. There's really no part of a ride that is. That is not fun anymore 100% fun yeah so they, they saw that and and I think they identified with all the cool things that I had been very blessed and lucky to do with the group and they just, you know, they, came to me and said we just don't want to see you give that away, you know up.
Dane:No, nobody wanted to see you. See you not ride anymore right. And I know my perspective was I hear about Travis and I hear about this heart attack and he drops off the face of the planet Right.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, I mean he does.
Dane:Yeah and we hadn't known each other that well at that point. And then all of a sudden he pops back up and Not only is he riding and I don't even remember if I even knew that you had heart attack, I just know that you were gone for a little while and he comes back and then now he's Leading every single ride. And then I mean it's just, it was amazing to me. And I see him and he's on this e-bike and I was like wow. And then I heard the story and I was like you are why e-bikes are important, you know. I mean, I feel like that had as much to do with your recovery as anything you know 100%.
The Travis Williams:I mean, I Don't know when I would have gotten them back on a bike if it hadn't been for the e-bike opportunity that the readers gave me. So when they they came to me and said, you know, first they made me an offer I couldn't refuse and they gave me a Time period, yet to this day undetermined as to how long it would take for me to pay for it. Yeah, and that generosity obviously is life-giving and life-changing for me. But what makes what's so different? You joke about the fact that now is leading every ride. That's actually really true, because now I was at the front of the group, yeah, and able to lead a pace that was appropriate for almost everyone. And, and I was pretty well known as the sweep yes, before that. And, and to this day, looking at the data, I'm not sure how I was doing the rides I was doing if the one side was 90% block right, that's crazy I don't understand it really, but so, at any rate, the e-bike Returned me to the sport, but, more importantly, it returned me to normal life.
The Travis Williams:Yeah for me, mountain biking has always been about finding an exercise that I enjoyed and that didn't make me think that I was exercising, yeah, and from a mental health perspective, which I think we're in a time of our lives and a time of human history when we're more well aware of mental health issues than we've ever been before.
The Travis Williams:For sure and doing exercise like that and the endorphins that it gives and all the benefits obviously, is Huge and and that has to this day become my only form of real exercises, just riding, and that's why I do it as much as I can and the safety net that riding an e-bike gives me from a perspective of you know, like when they went in and they did the secondary look on the left side like my left side is 50% blocked but they determined that that didn't need any further.
Josh:Mitigation yeah, like yeah well, you didn't need a stint there, or whatever.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, exactly, there was no more work they needed to do. The mitigation was medication, right, change of diet. It was also exercise, regular exercise, which, with the e-bike, was not a problem. So so the, so the, an e-bike in particular, has just returned me to my normal life, the, the form of exercise that I've fallen in love with, the thing that fuels my social life, and so all of those things create a mental health ex environment. For me that is Invaluable, and so To me it feels like I am the poster child for an e-bike, and we have others in the group that are in a similar boat.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, I'm not the only one, but but but it feels a lot like yeah, this is why these things exist. Yeah that for me to be able to get back out there and and to do rides that I Never did before. I never did. I never did, ridgeline, before I had an e-bike.
Dane:Yeah, yeah. I keep seeing you at rides and you're like I rode for my house, so to the ride, then did the ride and then you ride back. And you know, I don't think you ever did that.
The Travis Williams:No, I mean, I was always looking to be honest with you. I was always looking for the shortest, most fun way to enjoy a ride. So I became actually pretty well and famous, known for new locations to start rides from, and finishing with my favorite feature on any mountain bike ride, which is a downhill to the Parking lot.
Josh:Yep, so I thank you for your route. Thank you today. Yeah, today was a down to the mountain.
The Travis Williams:Yes, Josh took us on a tremendous route today that gave me my favorite feature of every ride it is a downhill to the parking lot.
Dane:I do feel like that that all trail builders listening to this right now Just remember have a downhill at the end of the finish as a downhill to the parking lot.
The Travis Williams:But you know, in other states that's not a problem. If you go to Colorado, everything is ride up and ride down. So it's true, so Arizona in particular and I'm sure there's other states like this probably I'm looking at, like you know, the Midwest flat states yeah but but anyways so having.
The Travis Williams:I Was famous for creating new ways to do rides and Tucson that Started in a unique spot to end at the most fun and a downhill. So like, for instance, an example for those of people and listening that know the Tucson area, tortolita is a 10 mile loop and if I just start on the southwest corner instead of the Southeast corner, you, you tag all the uphill together in the first half of the ride and all the downhill.
The Travis Williams:Yep, yeah, and so if, but if you start where it's intended to start, you have to end on an uphill. Yep, yeah, so I was famous for making the south the southwest start, because that's how I wanted to end the ride. Yeah, yeah and so the Edwin Rhodes start to To do the Badlands that's honeybee was was kind of one of my things, because if you started the start of honeybee trail that turns into a 32 mile ride, which I wasn't, but pre e-bike was I'd only done once.
The Travis Williams:Yeah so when I was able to start from Edwin road, it was now a 14 mile ride anyways on an e-bike. Now I can start anywhere I want, yep and ride as long. But. But you make a good point and this is what I Found was really so I interesting about the e-bike. I thought, like a lot of people, that it would rob me of a workout and if you look at the data, one of the things I learned was on this particular trail called Torta Lita Preserve, where it's a set 10 mile loop. Every time you do it there's a start and a finish. There's only one route. I looked at rides back pre-hard attack on an analog bike or an acoustic bike, whatever you like. I like to say naturally aspirated, because I ride a Levo turbo.
The Travis Williams:So, if I say the non-e-bike or what I guess now people are calling naughty, not e-bikes.
Josh:Oh yeah not e bikes, not e or not e-bikes. Someone said that earlier. I don't know what the hell they were talking about. I'm like naughty.
The Travis Williams:I like to call them naturally aspirated, but anyways, on a naturally aspirated bike, when I did the ride before the hard attack, if I did that loop, that 10 mile loop, according to the WPAP, I would burn 600 calories After the e-bike if I rode the same amount of time. So let's say, let's call it 75 minutes. If I rode the same amount of time, I would burn about the same amount of calories on the e-bike, but instead of going 10 miles, I would go 15 miles. So what I found was if I really just did the same amount of time on the bike, I would go further and I would go faster, but it would turn out to be a very similar outcome of output. And so that enlightened me and changed my mind about wow, this is not about robbing. You have a workout. It's about doing something you might not have been able to do otherwise and have the safety net In the case like for me was like okay if I was trying to avoid it working, overworking my heart, or if I was concerned about that stuff.
The Travis Williams:Like the e-bike gave me a safety net to always feel like I could safely get back to the car in any and all conditions, and so that's what's really remarkable to me to this day, and then since then, I've identified several people in our community that it's like wow, they would be so good on an e-bike, it would really change their life. And there's been a couple of people that have recently got on e-bikes for various reasons and it's been life changing for them and I'm like I'm right there with you.
Josh:So, travis, we recently we never would have bought a e-bike in this house, like it just wasn't in the cards, and like I am addicted to bike raffles, like any bike raffle in the world, oh, by the way, yeah you got a raffle coming up.
Dane:Yes, I'm in our anniversary party.
Josh:I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there raffling off a bike. Nice, let me know, I'm going to buy about 6,000 tickets.
The Travis Williams:Josh won't spend 6,000 on a bike, but he'll spend 6,000 on 6,000 tickets. So they're a dollar each. So you know you do this.
Josh:I think it's because I used to be a gambler. I'm not a gambler anymore. It's just throwing my money away. But if it's for a bike, that's a different thing, and I actually won one.
Josh:And I won a Turbo Levo in a size medium and it was. It was. It was it's like the bottom line carbon, but it was a lower level build, which, of course, I stripped all of the lower level parts off and upgraded the shit out of it and I gave it to my wife, because she rides a medium, and said here you go and she's like how am I going?
The Travis Williams:to do with the e-bike.
Josh:I might just try it Her like second ride. She posts sell all your bikes and buy an e -bike and then and then in that ride she posts like on her Instagram or whatever. Side by side comparison of the same distance.
The Travis Williams:Like a data, like data. The data was it time.
Josh:I'm sorry, you're right. Same time same amount of time that she spent to our right. Let's just say to our whatever, yeah, I think it was a to our ride and what her output was was, you know, she didn't do calories, but similar thing.
Dane:She's doing heart rate.
Josh:Yeah, and it was like exactly the same over to our ride on e-bike and she's like she said exactly what you said. I went way faster, I went way longer, I'm sorry, longer distance, further further Further Thank you and a million smiles an hour, an hour, like you said. So she's like it's not just I want to be lazy, so I'm going to have an e-bike, it's that I can go faster and farther and I'm still getting the same workout. So any of you that think that this isn't the thing like you're crazy if you haven't ridden one.
Dane:Shut up quit talking about it and go ride one. Yeah, go. You know, we say this all the time. If you're going to have an opinion, at least try the bikes to form your opinion. There's a lot of people that that I'll I'll interview about e-bikes or I'll get into, you know, some sort of Facebook fight online with e-bikes and they'll you find out. They've never ridden one and they have all these misconceptions. And so I have a similar story. I broke my leg at bootleg racing and I broke it in half.
Josh:I want everybody to visualize bootleg canyon and Dan's a downhill racer. If you don't know it was literally sideways.
Dane:I, right on the trail, I yanked it straight. I don't know why. I have no idea to this day what caused me to do that, not just leave it, but I straightened it out and I tried to crawl out. I think it's adrenaline and I'm just like I didn't want to inconvenience anyone, because it took six people to carry me out of there. So, um but uh, my recovery was on my e-bike and when I got off the couch, when I finally was able to get out of my boot and actually put weight on my leg, I was super weak, super weak. My leg was noticeably smaller and and I used my e-bike to get back to riding and I went on all these group rides with my friends and I was able to keep up with them and I was able to slowly build up, and actually slowly is the wrong word.
Dane:It was much quicker, much quicker to get back up to speed. The next year I raced that series and won the series, and so that e-bike was instrumental in doing that and the misconceptions that people have, and my experience was just like yours. If I spend the same amount of time on the bike, I was putting out the same amount of energy, doing the same amount of calorie burn, getting the same kind of heart rate workout, and it really just didn't matter you know, and I was having 100% fun and you just went further distance.
Dane:Yeah, maybe two laps instead of one.
Dane:Or, or, like you said, we would go out and start at the church, uh, for the honeybee ride and then end up doing ridgeline and back, and I could do it in the same amount of time. And to this day, I use my e-bike to to do that, to help train, and we I actually race e-bikes now as well as downhill bikes and we train on them. We use them for all types of riding and the misconceptions are out there. And and when I say you're the poster child, it's because there's a conflict right now with a lot of people on whether or not these should be on the trails and whether or not people should be allowed to use these things, and I think a lot of people want to have their opinions. But when you have a story like yours, which is truly inspirational, you know where, not only did it help you get back into riding, but I personally think it's actually helping you be a healthier person, you know and without a doubt, and that is something for somebody to tell you that you shouldn't be allowed to do.
Dane:that is just frustrating.
Josh:So so we wrote today Travis, did you, did you have fun.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, if you know me as Captain Enthusiasm, you know I had fun, but I mean, I mean just, I mean you rode with with four people that all had naughties.
Josh:Yeah, right Not.
The Travis Williams:I was. I was the only e-bike in that particular group today. Did you have fun? Oh, a ton of fun. And I had fun.
Josh:I didn't feel like you were like. I mean, you probably ride an eco motor or something. I would imagine it was awesome, I you know. And so he had an e-bike we had not e-bikes and we had a great ride. I mean, it was 11. It wasn't a long ride, it was 11 and a half miles.
Dane:It was fun, I didn't see you tear up the trail. I didn't see you run anybody off the trail. No, you didn't get stuck out in the middle of nowhere because your bike ran out of power, like none of the myths were there, we just had a good time.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, so I would call what you're talking about about someone who hasn't tried it I would. I would call that like the broccoli effect.
Josh:Oh my God, like I tell my kids like broccoli so good, so I love broccoli.
Dane:But, but historically a lot of people don't right, so a lot of people don't like broccoli. Yeah.
The Travis Williams:But but I always told my kids right Like try it once and then tell me what you really think of it. Like don't tell me you don't like broccoli if you haven't tried it. Yeah, a lot of that e-bike stuff. I would identify with you and feeling similar, a lot of people who have a feeling about them. Then you ask them have you ever ridden one? And they say no. That to me is the broccoli effect. Well, don't don't tell me what you feel about broccoli if you've never tried it.
Dane:Yeah, yeah, at least you're. At least you're using real info at that point. Yeah, not these myths. There's a lot of myths. You know a lot of people. I've had customers. They don't want an e-bike because they don't want it to loop out from under them like a some sort of motorcycle, and I'm like you can't do that. They don't do that.
Josh:It only applies power when you're pedaling.
Dane:I did have a 90 year old lady who it was a little too peppy for her. I would say that it's her degree of flexibility was not so much the bike, but I don't.
Dane:You know. A lot of those myths are really frustrating and and there's stories like you, all over the place of people continuing to ride and continuing to get out there and enjoy the sport and do this for fun, and that's another misconception is that this sport is meant to be arduous and it's meant to be a weight loss or what have you. It's whatever we make of it. When I was a kid and I was jumping off curbs in my neighborhood, I didn't care how much I weighed. I just want to go out and ride my bike and jump off curbs.
The Travis Williams:That's that for you as a freedom.
Dane:Yeah, I was just going and having fun and as an adult I don't want to feel guilty that I just want to go have fun.
Josh:Yeah, you know but I will say, though I want to make sure I'm clear about this like my wife riding the e-bike, like she's not coming back from an injury, no, no, she's badass, has all the QMS around, she's a badass rider. Yeah, never thought she would get on an e-bike, so so, so, like I think it's awesome if you're recovering from an injury, that's great. It gives you a tool to help you do that. Yeah, but that's not the only audience. No, no.
The Travis Williams:In fact, I wanted to bring up a rider in our community whose initials are AW, and I'm not going to say his name because he goes on Facebook. He goes under another name yes, yes. But his initials are AW and he has a fleet of bikes.
The Travis Williams:He's a single guy who has a great career and he has a fleet of bikes, and one of them is an e-bike and what he's told me, when he really enjoys about riding it, is that he used to have to take recovery days. Yes, used to have to take days off the bike. What he does now is he rides his other bikes and uses the e-bike as a recovery. He uses the e-bike as the recovery day ride, and then he doesn't have to stop riding. And so, if you're talking about among the uses and audiences of e-bikes, he's a young, healthy, fit guy and he has the e-bike in his fleet for a very specific purpose.
Dane:Yes.
The Travis Williams:And then on rides he's been on. You know we've done Ridgeline together and he's ridden the e-bike. I think I've actually done that ride with him on not e-bike as well. He's done it both ways, but all that to say is there is an audience that doesn't have to be post or child for getting back into the sport from an injury or an event like I had. I completely agree with what you're saying, Josh. Yeah.
Dane:So one of the things I got a question for you, Josh have you ever gone Somewhere else, a different city or what? Have you to ride a trail? Yeah, and had kind of a little bit of anxiety of which direction to go every time, like you know, like twice last week. You know I'll travel.
Dane:I'll travel area, san Diego, is one that I go to regularly and I love San Diego, but I don't know the trails, yeah, and I don't know what direction and I'm not a data guy, so I don't get online and figure out trail forks, forks, very well. I just go to the trail and start riding, yeah, and what I've found with my e-bike, that's the bike I want to travel with, because then if I go the wrong way and it's all uphill, and then I don't get to do the downhill, I just turn around and go the other way, I just have a blast, no matter what.
Josh:yeah, I'd that anxiety have a blast, no matter what. It should be like the tagline for a bike yeah, have a blast, no matter. Yeah so.
The Travis Williams:So a couple of my friends now that that ride e-bikes here in our community. We say that there are uphills and there are, or sorry, there's. There's downhills and there's reverse uphills, yeah. Or what we say is there's what hills? Yeah. So it used to be here's a hill here and now we turn to each other. We go what hill?
Dane:yeah, yeah. So there's, and the thing is, is I, as somebody who uses every kind of bike possible except for the Unicycles? We should probably get into that. I don't know if I could do it.
The Travis Williams:I think, I fall on my face. Let's do it.
Dane:So come on, can I do they make training wheels?
Josh:Let's do it, let's do it. I'll make a challenge. What wouldn't that be bikes? I'll buy them both, kitty bikes.
Dane:Oh sorry, I was gonna say I got an e-bike.
Josh:We'll both get electric unicycles oh.
The Travis Williams:Now you're throwing a whole nother. Dean isn't a unicycle with Training wheels, just a tricycle.
Dane:Yes, pretty much, which I'm totally down for. Adult tricycles should be a thing, but not it with a basket and, like you know, in a trailer park.
Josh:I'm talking like downhill with three, with three suspension elements versus two of series.
Dane:Yeah, so um, but you know the the big thing is that I, as a somebody who rides everything and when I'm on my e-bike, I don't ever want to tell somebody they shouldn't ride a bike. I don't want to. Now I make fun of single speed sometimes but I have fun on my specialized Well. Yeah, but that's we so. Sorry, it's not a white tea, that's for, that's for industry reasons.
Josh:Okay, okay.
Dane:Okay so, but I don't want to tell somebody that they can't ride a bike, right, because I know I wouldn't ride a bike. You know, if you want to ride a single speed on my knees, kill me like today.
Josh:I mean, you know you do it on a single.
Dane:Yeah, I can't ride my yeah, I ride my single speed with my son and it's slow and it's easy and I just can't handle single speeds. I'm not gonna call up somebody who's on a single speed there was single speed, arizona was this weekend and say hey, you guys are all idiots, you shouldn't be on that bike because I can't. That's to me wrong. Yeah and so I feel like that philosophy should be pretty fluid with everybody and I think it makes logical sense.
The Travis Williams:Yeah, so well, if we go back to the idea that I'm that a mountain bike group in particular, something that we excel at In old Pueblo MTB is inclusivity. Yeah, inclusivity. E bikes are basically Designed for that they're. They're including people in demographics and various states of levels of capabilities To be involved in a sport that they might otherwise have retired from or moved out of and never be involved in again.
Dane:Yeah, and, and they may bring them into the sport when the normal things about our sport, because it is athletic, would hold them back. And I use my wife as an example with this. She doesn't ride. She rides one of my e-bikes when we go and because she doesn't have that initial, just horrible. You know, pain from that muscular workout that she's never used to.
Dane:Yeah, it allows her to enjoy the ride at that. That first ride is enjoyable, the first one she doesn't have to build up. I used to tell customers all the time what that are getting into their bikes. You're gonna have this pain period and you should just expect this pain period. It's kind of a bell curve and once you get to the top of that bell curve and you've gotten past that pain, you've worked past it and your muscles are used to it and your body gets used to it, it's gonna be so enjoyable.
Josh:This is what I tell my wife in the bedroom.
Dane:Oh, true, right, once we get past the pain, it's gonna be painful for a while, but it'll get better. Once we get past it, it'll be so good. I just the tip.
Josh:But Wait, we just lost all of our demographic 18 to 26, they're gone.
Dane:They're like yep.
Josh:Yeah, unsubscribe unsubscribe.
Dane:What are they talking about?
Josh:They were talking about bikes, and now it's just the tip.
Dane:Anyway, back to the back to the bikes. My, my wife can go enjoy a ride and not being a rider, and have a good time. And this is one of the reasons why you see rentals so big because rental companies realize that person who doesn't normally ride wants to go ride around San Diego. Uh, they can jump on an e-bike, enjoy themselves and they're not just wiped out and that's you know, and the rest of vacation, their, their muscles are recovering from a massive workout.
Josh:Yeah, we, we got a great episode on San Diego and mission beach.
Dane:Yeah, and riding, riding down there made so much sense because parking is so pain. Yeah, dude, it's such a pain, yes.
Josh:Yeah Well, travis band, like thank you so much for coming and talking to us. I am like what you guys are doing with the old pub low first of all. Like how can people learn about old pub?
The Travis Williams:like what's the best way to find you guys, yeah, so, so obviously it makes the most sense of you're in our area or you're visiting, and actually we get a lot of people that will pop into the forum and say they're, they're coming to visit and they've found us and and are following along and have been impressed by what we're doing. But essentially, on facebook, old pub low mtb for mountain biking Is how you would find us and and you just, you know, you just request to be a Involved in the group and you know there's, I think, three quick questions to make sure you're not a robot and and and then we, you know. And then you're involved in the community and you can see the events. You can see, you know the post, you can actively reach out and ask questions and the community will answer.
The Travis Williams:What was really fun is recently I just got a private message from someone that said hey, I've been following along with old pub low mtb. I love what you guys are doing. It's really fun to see how many rides you guys are doing like. I get that quite frequently Actually, and that's pretty fun and rewarding.
Josh:That's awesome.
Dane:Yeah, we recommend it at the old pub low mtb on facebook.
Josh:Yeah, um, I'm Thank you for being being vulnerable and sharing your, your story with us, your health story the inspiration.
Dane:It's super inspirational.
Josh:It was awesome to ride with you today. Thanks for coming to my house.
The Travis Williams:and yeah, man, I'm breaking bread and I had no idea I was gonna get a steak out of it. I mean, I would have pushed to do this a lot earlier.
Josh:He's like I don't know, thinking you can do it right now.
The Travis Williams:He's uh.
Josh:Come on, if I knew all it took was a steak we would offer to the one time Great.
The Travis Williams:So next weekend We'll do it again.
Josh:Yeah, we'll do it again.
The Travis Williams:That's awesome, no it was a real honor, I mean it's. It's just great to you know it's been a great community to be involved in and obviously you know you go back to saying that this is kind of a selfish thing too, right, like I've gotten a great community out of it. Yep, a lot of incredible friends. Mental health for me is a whole different ballgame being out, and yes and and instigating rides, and it's just. It's an honor to be a Part of it and to be around.
Josh:Thanks, man. Do you got any final thoughts for our listeners?
The Travis Williams:Yeah, actually, I think something I would love to encourage everyone to do in their local area is Get out on a group ride.
The Travis Williams:Too many people say, oh, you know, I'll get out with you next week or next month or next year, and it's like, don't, don't try and get yourself to a point when you think you can be on a group ride.
The Travis Williams:Go on a group ride and find the people that are at your speed at that time and then you'll grow and each time you go out it'll get easier and people you will find that most people are Having too much fun to worry about. Are you holding them up or there's a lot of misconceptions about group riding. So I guess if there's anything I want to leave the listeners with is Find a place in your community, find people around you that are riding that will motivate you to get out and ride, and if there's not that, create it. Be, jump out there and put yourself out there and say, hey, I want to go riding on saturday morning. I'm going to be at the hop shop or whatever it is, yeah, at 8 am, and then let's go ride, yeah, and that that's how you meet friends that you never thought you would, or you, you know you.
The Travis Williams:You end up In a community with folks that you would never find yourself with you can make lifelong friendships you know I mean there is just people getting connected with all kinds of Community and people they're spending a lot of their lives with now, just through mountain biking, so that that would be my number one thing to leave people with get out there, do a group ride. Yeah, get out there and just do it.
Josh:Well, thanks a lot, brother. Yeah, take care.