In this episode, Dane sits down again with Sam Elmes from Rocky Mountain to discuss Rocky's significantly redesigned enduro bike... the Altitude. Feedback from Rocky's professional enduro race team were essential in shaping the Altitude's redesign. This episode features less rabbit holes and more bike specs. Enjoy.
Learn more about the new Altitude at Rocky Mountain's Website: www.bikes.com
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In this episode, Dane sits down again with Sam Elmes from Rocky Mountain to discuss Rocky's significantly redesigned enduro bike... the Altitude. Feedback from Rocky's professional enduro race team were essential in shaping the Altitude's redesign. This episode features less rabbit holes and more bike specs. Enjoy.
Learn more about the new Altitude at Rocky Mountain's Website: www.bikes.com
Listen to Mountain Cog
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Other Podcast Sites
Socials
Instagram
Facebook
Email
mountaincog@gmail.com
Okay, this is Dane. I am at. Well, I guess this is going to air much later, but we are at the Sedona Bike Fest. But we are at the Sedona Bike Fest and we got the inside line on the newest bike that Rocky Mountain is delivering. What's the embargo date? April 10th, april 10th, so everyone should be hearing this episode around April 10th to announce the new Rocky Mountain bike. I wanted our listeners to kind of get an inside track and find out about this bike early, because it's a very big change. Uh, so this won't air until the embargo lifts. So, uh, we are, uh, at the mountain bike festival and we just finished up a recording about the instinct, the new instinct, and so we're doing this separate so that we can, um, kind of let all our listeners know about something that's brand new before everybody else does. Well, it'll be the same time and, honestly, it'll drop probably at whatever midnight the night before 12.01.
Sam:So by then we'll be in daylight savings.
Dane:Yeah, how does that?
Sam:work. So technically it's 7 am Pacific time on April 10th, which would be 7 am our time. Okay, so I'll just make which would be 7 am.
Dane:Our time Okay, so I'll just make sure it drops at 7 am. Yeah, so we'll respect all your embargo. So just for our listeners' sake, when a new bike comes out, sometimes not always the bike company will tell us ahead of time at the bike shop and they'll tell us we have a new bike coming. Tell us we have a new bike coming. There's been a shift in the industry to where they want to try and get the bikes into the shops earlier, so that when you hear about the bike it's not half a year before you can get it. And that was a real thing. That was a real thing. You would hear about a bike at a trade show and then six months later it may be available, and it was frustrating because the buzz is gone and so there's.
Sam:We've reached Amazon status of bike industry, right, you know, and it was frustrating because the buzz is gone, and so there's we've.
Dane:We've reached Amazon status of bike industry, or at least that's the goal. Yeah, yeah.
Sam:Which bike drops, go by it.
Dane:Yep, exactly, which is cool, you know, because the buzz is going. People are like excited, they're asking me about it and I'm like, well, I don't know what you're talking about. And there's some of my dealers don't do this and it's frustrating, but the ones that do, we try and really kind of take advantage of the fact that we know about these things ahead of time and we are ready and we help people and then we get educated and then when somebody comes in or asks us about it, we're not like duh, you know, right, and so it's very nice. So this podcast is going to drop on that embargo date and you're going to find out about what we're going to talk about right now I'm excited about because this is a bike that I ride and so it's going to be, and it's a very different bike.
Dane:So just a small recap rocky mountain has quite a few bikes. The main ones we carry are the element, which is a 120 cross country down country bike super capable, light and fast. Then the next bike up is a trail orientated bike. They just dropped a new instinct, that's their instinct, and so that bike just came out on march 7th. Is that what you said?
Dane:yes march 7th, so that one's new and that's got the penalty box which we talked about in the last episode. Uh, at the sedona fest, and uh, carbon and aluminum, lots of options Trail orientated 140, no, 150, 140. Correct, okay, trail bike. And then there's the bike I ride, which mine's modified. So I will tell you what my settings are, but I don't know what the stock ones are anymore 170, 165. Does that sound right? Is my current altitude? Is that right? What's stock?
Sam:Stock is 170, 160. Okay, yeah.
Dane:And I I have a coil, so I put a coil on mine. I don't think it's overstroke, so it may be 160, so 170, 160. And then you get into the Slayer, which is a bigger hit bike, more durable, definitely can take bike park days. It's the shredder bike. If you got steep terrain, lots of shuttles, chairlifts, that's a great bike. Mini downhill bike In fact I did. I hear somebody is riding Rocky as downhill team.
Sam:It was. It was kind of a misleading post, but that was for the, the new. What is it? E, e, w, r, e D R?
Dane:Yeah, exactly, and so I was kind of wondering if he had a new bike and that was going to be it. And I got a little excited. Yeah, exactly, and so I was kind of wondering if he had a new bike and that was going to be it.
Sam:And I got a little excited. You're not the only one, yeah exactly.
Dane:So no, we're not telling you about a new downhill bike. This is actually going to be. I'll let Sam. So Sam Elms with Rocky Mountain and he's going to start telling us about the brand new. Go ahead, sam.
Sam:The brand new Rocky Mountain Altitude. Woo-hoo, that's what I ride, okay.
Dane:So go for it. I just want you to tell me let's talk about if you were talking to somebody that walked into the shop and they're not really aware what's different about this bike, what's. So let's start with the existing Altitude as we know it, and that's what I ride, so I can relate to that easy.
Sam:So I know you guys at Guru have had a lot of success with the existing altitude and instinct and the cross compatibility to turn one into the other.
Dane:Yeah, and literally you can take an instinct the older version, which is two days old, the old one's two days older, the older version, you could convert it to an altitude right, which was a big plus. So if you bought a trail bike and then rode for a year and really evolved and wanted longer travel, you could convert the bike with a shock, a mount and a front fork change. Yeah, uh, either a fork travel change or a fork change and all of a sudden you've got, you've gone from uh trail to effectively enduro and, and I would say, lightweight enduro.
Sam:You know, like the slayer, still enduro too, but it's heavy duty enduro, sure is that right yeah, and, and you know, I think it's also important to to say before we get into the nitty-gritty of the new altitude is that the Altitude as we've known? It is an EWS winning platform.
Dane:Yes, yeah, like super, like amazing bike. I mean, I ride one and it's the oldest bike I ride, like that's. I've had it since what? What did we say? 2020 or 2021. Right, I never keep a bike that old. In fact, I still don't know if I want to sell it. Sure, I'm really not sure if I want to sell it. Sure, I'm really not sure if I want to sell it. But it's just a great bike and it's rare for me to keep a bike that long, cause in my industry, it's more important for me to try the new stuff so I can tell people about it. So, okay, so what's new?
Sam:So essentially, we, you know, we needed instinct and altitude. We felt like it was time to to make them more specialized in their intended purpose, of what those bikes are for.
Dane:So they're no longer the same. Effectively, the same bike, like we call it, shared parts Right. So, like the old Instinct and Altitude shared the front triangle and the rear triangle.
Sam:Now everything is totally different, totally different, okay.
Dane:So that bums me out a little bit, I'll be honest Sure Right.
Sam:You know I'll be honest, because that was cool, yes, so, but you guys, I don't think you'd do that unless it was worth it, that's right, so for the last, uh, um, for the last long time since you've been carrying Rocky, yeah, um, you know our suspension platform um is smooth link smooth, and, and so I, as a layman suspension guy, I lump everything into one thing.
Dane:So I call that horse link correct, or fsr. I don't like that term, but it's I don't like that term.
Sam:I know nobody likes that term but.
Dane:But basically it's a rear, so it's a. The way I explain it to people is it's basically a vertical wheel path, as much as vertical as possible and achieving that kind of like an a in a car. Yeah, and as the rear wheel axle moves up it can stay vertical. And they achieve that with a very specific in the patent was a forward of the front derailleur, lower than the derailleur, uh, pivot, and so for people, what that? What that means is if you mount okay, and I got a little rabbit hole if you mount um, that, and I'm a little rabbit hole If you mount that on your chainstay, if there's a pivot at the front of the bike and then the chainstay runs to the back wheel, if the back wheel is mounted to that same piece of metal, that is effectively a single pivot bike, pivot bike.
Dane:Now, if you separate where the derailleur and the axle are mounted from that piece, then you're getting into this horse link kind of idea. And that allows for, instead of moving, when you have a single pivot, you have a wheel arc. That is an arc. It's literally rotating around a center, center access point. And then you have to really do. What you'll do is you'll make complicated systems that try and calm it down and those are walking bar linkages that come up from the back of the bike and you'll see a pivot on the top that's basically above the axle, affixed to the seat stay and then that piece will run up to the seat stay and usually interface with some sort of rocker link. I have lost so many people right now, so, like nobody, that piece will run up to the seat stay and usually interface with some sort of rocker link.
Dane:I have lost so many people right now so like nobody's listening, but um, so basically this rocker link effectively will. Then the engineers can design it to basically move the shock. I used to say articulate and josh got on me um, but it used to. Um, it moves the shock in a way and then you can change things to change the leverage and stuff. So so the clear thing to understand is single pivot, because there are bikes still out there. We just saw the new Commencal e-bike Sure and it is a single pivot and I'm like what is wrong with them?
Sam:Right.
Dane:And then you look at their Supreme right next to it and it's a horse link, yeah, or a version of that, because they have a funky, funky stuff. But that rear pivot location is super important. Okay, rabbit hole. Now back to the new altitude. So, going back to Smoothlink, which is Rocky's iteration of I said all of that just because you said Smoothlink.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Sam:You know what Rocky's DNA is in the North Shore of British Columbia that is extremely janky, rowdy, steep, off-camber Roots, Roots, rocks, you name it. Yep, I mean truly, if you can excel riding there, you can excel riding anywhere. Yeah, the benefits of a horse link, smooth link bike in that terrain is that you get a phenomenal amount of traction Combined with that traction. You get the traction because it's an active suspension design.
Dane:Okay, and that just means that it's tracking the ground as much as it can. It's not being isolated by something else. Right so like when you pedal, it's not your pedaling doesn't force it to not work.
Sam:Totally.
Dane:Okay, totally All right.
Sam:We're just, you know, like, as far as it's also a very predictable suspension design. So it's easy for people to just feel how it's going to work and behave and it's really easy to adapt to work and behave and it's really easy to adapt to Um. So in and that's been, you know, the, the existing element, altitude Slayer, that that's been in the DNA for Rocky for some time.
Dane:Um, we've known, and I say we, and my biggest disclaimer here is that I'm not an engineer.
Sam:Okay, that's okay. Neither am I, um, but with this new altitude project, we wanted to come out with something from the ground up.
Dane:Okay.
Sam:And that includes our smooth link suspension design. So that got shelved, that got shelved. Let's see if I can recite this in an efficient way, but the biggest goals in the development of this new bike were to make it a little bit stiffer.
Dane:Okay.
Sam:We wanted to lower the center of gravity.
Dane:So when you say stiffer, do you want it to ride like a buckboard, or are you talking about when you pedal or when you lean it More leaning?
Sam:and cornering, okay, and just when you're really really pushing a bike to its limits and I'm talking more on the descents, given the intended usage of this bike that it's going to—, you don't have to factor in for flex.
Dane:Right.
Sam:Absolutely.
Dane:So you're not losing energy, but you're also—so it's not about how the suspension feels. So we're not talking like an Epic with a brain on it where it's really stiff. We're talking about side loads. You go into a corner and you don't bend it like a tie bike.
Sam:There's an amount of composure that you'll feel. That's confidence inspiring, okay, cool, okay. So the and lower the center of gravity Is that what I just said? Yep, yep, that's okay. And create this next-gen suspension design that has some more support. Support is advantageous while pedaling. It's also very advantageous when you're descending. You need a platform to push off against so you're not going to blow through and bottom out the suspension. Okay, and so the new suspension kinematic is called LC2R.
Dane:Okay, now, this is an old concept, it's a recycled name.
Sam:Yeah.
Dane:Because you used to have this on the flatline. I almost said fault line yeah, but flatline Okay.
Sam:So my fundamental understanding is that it's within the umbrella of a dual link suspension design. Okay so.
Dane:So, with all these terms, they're throwing out fsr dual link. Uh, that would be like.
Sam:Uh, like a giant is one version and a maestro is under that, dw is under the dual link umbrella vpp is under.
Dane:So there's all these kind of names for a style, but it doesn't necessarily tell you about the whole style yeah, exactly, okay so okay, sorry, lc2r2r2 like the number low center uh, do you know what they stand for?
Sam:did I just make that up? Did I just like?
Dane:guess what it means low center counter totally guessed it yeah and then it's a two, so there's a c, so it's lc2r, so it's lc, so it's almost like emcs, equals, whatever exactly. So that two is okay. So, wow, low center counter rotation yeah, okay. Co-rotating yeah, okay, low center co-rotating, okay. So the links move. I have seen this bike, not in person, but in picture, yes, and the biggest thing that I noticed so, when I saw this bike, it resembles two bikes that I fight against. So from that statement, can you kind of reassure me that this is not those two bikes? You know, being a customer rather than a bike shop owner, I look at it. I'm like that looks just like you know, my knee jerk is like oh, oh, no, you know.
Sam:You're not going to say hashtag. It looks like a session, realistically it's going to be hashtag. It looks like, yes, yeah, like a tower.
Dane:Yes, exactly so it looks like. Yes, yeah, like a tower. Yes, exactly so. Santa Cruz and and Specialized are the two bikes. Yes, yeah, it's got a. So, if I'm not letting the cat cause, I wanted you to say this, but I'm going to do it. I'm taking your glory, do it. It's got a little tube that the shock sits in low near the, the, the cr. It's got these links in there that we couldn't see. I looked at many pictures couldn't figure them out, so I can't wait to see one in person.
Sam:So I'm guessing the links are really what separate it Well and a big difference compared to some of those other bikes that do look similar, is that the main pivot is wrapped around the bottom bracket. Oh, okay. And it's a concentric BB design.
Dane:Okay, that is different. Yeah, I haven't seen that in a long time.
Sam:One of the benefits is we're virtually eliminating any pedal kickback.
Dane:Okay, oh, cool, okay. So that's a feature of this bike.
Sam:Correct and that is something that is with a, a horse link design. As you're descending something very steep and rowdy and breaking it, that those forces are are tightening the chain and sometimes your crank arm is going to be like fighting you.
Sam:It's going to be moving I don't notice it on mike my bike and that, and I mean, you know, I think, like the development of this new bike, thomas Vanderham is really involved. He's a legendary free rider, nice, you know. We still have Remy Gavan on our enduro team, ok, so they're able to feel things on bikes that neither of us can.
Dane:OK, yeah, and they probably give way better feedback than the average rider who's having a hard time articulating what they're saying. You know, or how to say it. I deal with that with suspension. All the time People will say this word mid-stroke to me. Most of the time, they don't even know what that means Totally. But okay, so we got a. One of the pivots is rotating around the bottom bracket. Yes, okay, is there a lot of machinery going on?
Sam:I I might even be able to show you oh shit, dude, that would be amazing um, it's very simple in nature, um, but it's just wildly different than anything we've done before yeah and I think to you know, like in the nature of a horse link bike with the pivots in the back of the bike where the seat stay meets the chain stay, that was a moving part of the bicycle, where now that's fixed in the new bike Having a more rigid rear end, because the seat stay is the same carbon material, it's the same piece as the chain stay.
Dane:Okay, so we used to call that and this was our lame and everything's different now but we used to call them tucked four bar, so like when Maestro came out and the VPPs and these other suspension designs, where they kind of got rid of the rear pivot, the rear triangle was one piece and they kind of had a linkage at the front that allowed the rear end to move.
Dane:They just kind of tucked it and that's been very popular dw, pivots right, uh, vpps, uh or whatever they're calling them these days, because they keep changing the name on me um, the uh, maestro, uh or whatever giants calling theirs you know, and uh. So we always generically called it the four, a tucked four bar. And we used the four bar term because most of the time they were trying to achieve a vertical wheel path and not have a real big swing of that axle going backwards, because they didn't want the pedals affecting the drivetrain. Do you know what the axle path is like?
Sam:It's not in line with what you get with like a high pivot idler bike by any stretch.
Dane:So it's not going backwards that much, not that much To where you need an idler Like on those bikes. You have to have one, Otherwise the bike will feel like my 1999 Kestrel Rubicon Totally, which was insanely inefficient.
Sam:So there is, you know, there's a curve where you it's starting to go back a little bit, but but not a ton. And in the development of this new bike, um, there is extensive testing with if it were to have a high pivot with an idler, okay, and and that we ended up deciding that that was not a direction we wanted this bike that's interesting.
Dane:So you guys have looked at that avenue because there's a lot of bikes coming out right now that have that, yeah, and they're kind of saying this is uh. I saw one on the trail today. That was really crazy. It was green, I maybe a druid forbidden yeah, is that yeah? And, uh, some lady was riding it on hangover props to her because she was killing it, um, but it was this green bike and I was like what?
Dane:is that you know. And uh, we carry norco also and they just released two new bikes with the high uh idler, uh, pulley that's. I gotta get that out of my mouth. And um, it's a hot thing right now. It is so. In the past I've always said it was heavy and inefficient. Um, we'll see, because I'm going to ride some of those norcos later today, yeah yeah so. So it's interesting. You guys looked at that and kind of went a different way.
Sam:So yeah, and I could speak more to like my own personal assumptions as to why I can speak on behalf of the company. You know where it's arguably been around for some time idlers and high pivots.
Dane:Um, yeah, and, and even our power play is a mid-high pivot design.
Sam:yes, yeah, um, but a little different, because you got a drive ring in there, right, yeah, so, um, it's arguable that you know there's just, uh, by not going that route and and not needing, you know, not emphasizing that that wheel path is such a crucial element of how this bike rides we're able to. You know, there's a more inherent versatility in the platform by not going that way.
Dane:Okay, so it allowed you to play with it more. Yeah, kind of fine tune it more where you would kind of be holding, I imagine, where you put, that idler is really important and you got to have a hunk of something to attach it to right there, and so it kind of limits your design options yeah, and there's, I mean I, you know I, there's a lot of good things about them.
Sam:I I think one of the things I even heard this in the pink bike article of a recent bike is they were basically recommending that you bring a bottle of chain lube with you oh, really okay, so they're going through.
Dane:I know that the we haven't figured this out yet with the new norcos, but I know they're going to be a longer chain. I know on the power plate they're longer chains and we sometimes have to get. Is it 126? Yep, uh, 126, and your shop may have a 116 or whatever right.
Dane:What we're talking about for people that don't work in bike shops is the length of chains that come in the box when you buy the chain, and so you know, 116 used to be kind of a standard, and now we're finding that the companies are realizing some of the bikes take a longer chain and so they're now making more options. But if you've ever gone to your shop and bought a chain and got home and it was too short right out of the box, they weren't in there shortening it. It was probably bought that way either on purpose or by mistake. And during COVID we actually ran into that quite a bit because we were just getting whatever we could. But I know so on a high idler you're going to have usually a longer chain to accommodate that, and so that's going to add links, and so just a little thing, but you may have to pay attention to how many links you get.
Dane:And I suppose, in bringing it back to LC2R, yes sorry, sorry, I don't mean to make this about those bikes, it's an important conversation.
Dane:Yeah, what's refreshing is that you aren't jumping on kind of a bandwagon that a lot of people are Right, which is good and bad, right? Sure, you're not going to ride that flow of everybody's stoke, right? But at the same time you're also saying this may be not the holy grail of bikes. We've found something that does the same thing and actually I swear, as long as I've been doing bikes, that is pretty much mountain bikes. Yes, everybody, I swear. As long as I've been doing bikes, that is pretty much mountain bikes. Yes, everybody's trying to do the same thing differently, correct. And we get, as consumers, to see all of these changes and kind of figure out what works for us and it gives us some flavor. It's like not eating the same food every day, right, okay. So back to the LC2R. I like the two the way you explained that. It helps me remember it, because it's like E-M-C squared.
Dane:So, it's LC squared R Right.
Sam:Right, okay, there we go. So, okay, horselink does a lot of things really really well. It's simple. Yeah, it's simple.
Dane:I would say it's one of the and it's the longest standing, I think, right. I think it's been out longer than anything, as far as like on current bikes and when it came out, it came from the motorcycle industry.
Sam:What was his name? Horst Leitner. Horst Leitner, yeah.
Dane:I don't remember what I say, horst Link.
Sam:Okay, so I'm not wrong, right said lint lighter, sure, sure, sure, because I've gotten it wrong. So, um, I would also argue in today's mountain biking world that it's, it's not the I say this from time to time. It's, it's not a sexy um, uh, suspension yes, a lot of other brands have done a phenomenal job in marketing their design and what they call it and it and it, you it, and the marketing aspect of it puts it on the pedestal. Yes, yeah, but that On the horse link yes, yes, okay, yeah.
Dane:They've kind of hung their hat on the whole design Right. But that's changing. I've noticed with a bunch of brands that have done it. So when the patent expired I noticed a bunch of brands jump on it.
Sam:Went that way Totally.
Dane:Like Kona, transition, transition, yeah. So a lot of them did. I rode what was the oh Titus, yeah. So I rode Titus and Titus was one of the few that were grandfathered into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they had to put a sticker on when the patent was bought by the big S, but they didn't have to pay them. I believe that's right. Chris Cocalis is going to call me and be like you were wrong, but for right now I think that's right, or yeah, I think that's right. Anyway, there was a lawsuit and they were grandfathered in. So Titus bikes actually kept that longer than most other than the company that bought them, which is the big S.
Dane:We can say Specialized Sure, it doesn't burn my tongue, yeah. So in fact, let me just say something about Specialized. As much as I make fun of them, I have said this to customers and friends alike If they knocked on the door and said we want you to sell our bikes, I would have some serious consideration, because they are good bikes and they do sell well and they're nice bikes. So, so all of you have now a recording of me saying that every time I give somebody crap, it's always in jest and fun, it's never meant to belittle anyone, and so I'm saying that right now, because I do do it a lot.
Dane:And sometimes if you jump in on one of these podcasts and you hear me, it's not meant to hurt anyone.
Sam:No, they just they get to be the punching bag as a successful, larger yes exactly and honestly.
Dane:Josh has a specialized that. He just smokes me on Like he keeps dropping me and I get really frustrated, mainly because I like pizza. Okay, so back to the LC2R. I'm just going to change it, I'm just going to make it ours.
Sam:Okay, go ahead In the development of the, you know, searching for what we wanted it to be and how we wanted it to feel. We wanted to keep a lot of the aspects of what a horse link provides. Okay. And that's still, you know, a really solid amount of small bump compliance. Smooth bike. It's very smooth, okay, and still having active suspension when you need it to be active, which is a lot of the time yes, I mean some people I think over you know they'll hear active suspension and and associate that with bob yes, absolutely like I've used in the shop.
Dane:If it's too active, it robs you of energy. So how does this thing pedal?
Sam:but so, yeah, we wanted to keep the, the suppleness, the activeness, but the, the dual link design of the lc2r gives it more platform, um, so as you're pedaling you, it is going to feel and be a little bit more efficient, okay, at the end of the day, okay, um, also while descending, um the design, and, in a similar but different way, adds this platform that you know as a, you know the. The design of this bike is for Enduro racing. I think also Enduro racing and participation of racing is kind of on the decline, but people still want. Like you know, even before Enduro racing, everyone was riding.
Dane:Enduro. Well, so let's define enduro racing right now. Enduro racing, effectively, is gravity style backcountry riding Tends not to be at a bike park. So you're dealing with pretty choppy terrain, that's natural, yep. And the one component that makes an enduro racing is they're timing you, but they're timing you on just the descents, and then they want you to transition to each stage Stage. So you would go down a trail and I'll use Tucson as an example, bug Springs, yeah, mostly downhill and you would just go as fast as you can balls out, you know, just as fast as you can. Balls out, you know, just as fast as you can.
Dane:Or bras out, whatever you want to say uh you're going to go as fast as you can to the bottom, because they're timing you. You get to the bottom and they're going to ask you to ride back up, uh, and maybe do a different trail or the same trail or whatever, yeah, and you're going to have to ride back up the mountain. And that's the key with this. This is what separates it from downhill. And then you have to actually have a bike and you have to get yourself up to the next stage and transition over to there. Am I saying that? Right? It's not transfer.
Sam:It's transition. No, it's a transfer stage. Is it transfer, did I?
Dane:start the transition thing. I just made that up.
Sam:Transfer. I mean same thing, Okay, same thing.
Dane:Anyway, your next stage, so they don't time you on the climb Right.
Sam:You got to get there reasonably. There's like a cutoff.
Dane:Yeah, like if you are super slow or you walk, you may not make your start and then you're going to lose. But you don't. It's not timed. So you can take a break, you can eat a snack, you can drink blacks on the climb, uh, but you got to do that. And then you get to the next one and most of them have what?
Sam:three stages, so that's three timed events, so you have at least two transfers and, like sometimes in my neck of the woods, these transfer stages of the climb to get to the next timed section where we're talking up to 3 000 vertical feet of climbing which is a lot, yeah.
Dane:So my point in explaining this to everybody because it's important to understand that they're timing you on the descent. So the bike needs to be fast, it needs to go downhill fast and sometimes the— but you have to climb it and that is—enduro to me is, in Tucson, one of our—like. It's riding, it's just riding your bike, it's like you are climbing. It's mountain biking. Nobody well, okay, I was about to say nobody climbs for fun, but that's not true, because I know a couple of them. But usually people are climbing to get to something so that they can go down it. I would say that's pretty popular. Yeah, there's definitely. We have some really awesome riders in the shop and they are going out looking for long climbs because they're practicing them, but majority of riders don't enjoy the climb as much.
Dane:And so if the bike makes it harder. That's a big decision when we're selling bikes, right, big decision. So this bike being an Enduro racer cause usually people say, oh, it's an Enduro racer and they're kind of their next statement is going to be something like it's heavy, lots of suspension. You know, don't expect it to be a great climber, right, which I'm like it should be, yeah, um, so how? So you're saying this thing pedals pretty solid. Yes, okay, better than the previous version, better than my bike. If anybody's looking for a medium rocky mountain 2021 altitude, just let me know. So, okay, so better than my bike, because my bike pedals like it, pedals great. I use it on cross country all the time.
Sam:Yeah, yeah, um, given the new suspension design, given you know the, the frame weight does increase a little bit.
Dane:Okay, so static weight. Yes, If you're hefting the bike, I'm lifting it into a truck. Yes, when you say a little bit, do you have any idea? Like what?
Sam:Around a pound and considering the introduction of the Penalty Box 2.0. On the new Altitude, yes, on the new Instinct.
Dane:Well, and on both. It's on both both.
Sam:okay, all right so so it's still, it's a about a pound added weight. That, I think, is going to be very welcomed, um because at the same time, this bike is going to climb and descend better than the previous version okay, I'm getting shout outs in the background, so sorry, um.
Dane:So one thing that's interesting that you told me about the Instinct is it went down 200 grams, correct. That's awesome, that's good to hear. That's what we want to hear, right?
Sam:So when we hear that the bike goes up a little bit and a pound is a lot, and this is part of why now these bikes aren't the same mold anymore, as we were trying to make both bikes better at what they're meant to do.
Dane:And I would say my altitude is unusually light for its level of travel and what it can do and pedigree yeah. I mean 170 mil travel bike. Let's use Justin's bike as an example. At 30 pounds it is really light, because when you look at EW racers, is that right see, is there?
Sam:a, c in there. Edr, now edr, ews okay, I mean pink bike did an article. I think the average weight per racer's bike was 40.
Dane:Oh really, I was gonna say 36, but yeah so, and I have an e-bike that's 36. So we're talking a bike that you know, top shelf maybe 30 to 35 pounds in that range, and then lower end may creep up to what the EWS riders are riding. So we're not talking about a heavy bike and we're talking about something. Now here's the thing. I did ask you this, so I know the answer already. Is it faster? Yes, Did I make that up A little bit? All right? All right, tell me what I well, the bike.
Dane:I heard what I wanted to hear so the bike hasn't raced anything official yet so we got a better platform for pedaling better efficiency, better suspension movement, a little bit more weight, is that about right? Yeah, okay, all right, and so, and then we got a penalty box. Only on the carbon, only on the carbon. It's going to have an aluminum version. It's going to yeah, so I like that. I actually prefer carbon. I'll tell you right now, I'm a weight weenie and I like lighter bikes.
Sam:There'll be an A30, A50 and A70.
Dane:The reason I like aluminum is it allows people to get into just a kick-ass bike cheaper. And we have a brand or two in the shop that don't make aluminum and the barrier for people to get into them is frustrating because they're amazing bikes but trying to get somebody to be able to spend the money on them is sometimes tough. So that aluminum version isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's. Sometimes it's preferred.
Sam:I have a couple customers that would rather have aluminum so, which is why we tend to make that a70 bike and a lot of the models which is like top shelf parts on the aluminum.
Dane:so that's for the guy who's. I don't want to do carbon. I kind of throw my bike down the hill sometimes, right, so okay. So, um, and from what I've seen about Rocky is their aluminums tend to be on the light side, they're a little bit higher quality, whereas some brands their aluminum is their cheap bike, yeah, and so that doesn't seem to be the way at Rocky. So you can get a pretty good bike in aluminum.
Sam:So I once heard our product manager. This was probably four years ago. There's the internal initiative to hashtag make alloy great again.
Dane:Oh my god, you're not going to have. If you do have, a hat I would like it. It would be nice if it wasn't red, but just because I don't want any mistakes and I don't want to take any sides, it white, yeah, so, so, um, so, uh, let's see. So we're talking about the new altitude. What else is going on, uh, with this bike?
Sam:Uh, I think we covered a lot of it. Uh, similar to the instinct that we launched two days ago at the time of this recording.
Dane:Similar to the Instinct that we launched two days ago.
Sam:At the time of this recording, we're going to have the Reach Adjust, which is a really cool system.
Dane:Oh, we didn't talk about that. On the new Altitude On the Instinct. Sorry on the new Instinct. What the hell is that?
Sam:How are you changing the reach on a bike adjustment in the linkage? Okay now we've essentially, in both carbon and alloy, have ovalized the um head, not the head tube itself but, like you know, the hole for where the steerer comes through so, um, okay, so do you.
Dane:So you got a round hole. Do you still press in cups?
Sam:so on alloy bikes, you're still going to press in cups and in the box of every bike. You know out of the box the bike will be in the neutral setting.
Dane:Okay, is there like three settings or two?
Sam:Technically three.
Dane:Technically three Okay.
Sam:So you've got your neutral setting where the bike is going to come, and then in the alloy models it is pressed in, so you would have to pop out those cups, okay, and then you're able to achieve, you're able to add or subtract five millimeters of reach by installing an offset cup both on the top and the bottom.
Dane:And this isn't changing the head angle, it's not. It's just moving it forward or moving it backwards. Yes, it's awesome, that is so cool.
Sam:There's a huge theme with Rocky Mountain Bicycles where there's a lot of adjustability to be had, and by adding this adjustable reach system, we're just adding to that customization that the rider can have.
Dane:Okay, which is honestly one of the best selling features. As a dealer who sells these bikes, the best asset that I've had is being able to just make the bike fit the rider and not make the rider fit the bike, and that is still a core component, which is really nice, because when you get a Rocky, you can make it fit your style and you don't have to, you know, grow longer legs or shorter toes or anything like that, and so it's really nice they still do.
Dane:They still both. I noticed the new Instincts still have an adjustable wheelbase length. Yeah, okay, now is that still something that's adjustable if you do transmission, because on the old ones, you still have to be in the longer position in order to operate a transmission.
Sam:Well, it's due to the derailleur, but to run transmission you have to be in the longer position. So in order to operate a transmission, well, it's due to the derailleur, but to run transmission you have to be in the longer setting.
Dane:Okay, of the instinct so if somebody's really into that, they're going to be more of a shimano person and they're not, or uh?
Sam:well, luckily there's kind of a theme where longer rear ends are becoming popular so it puts you in the one that seems to be more popular right now I'd, I'd say so yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah.
Dane:I would say that sometimes we go shorter when they're a smaller bike Right, so it doesn't feel so trucky around corners. Okay so carbon. We got a penalty box. We got the tunnel.
Sam:Yeah.
Dane:Now, is there any kind of restrictions? Can you run a coil? Can you run? Is it air? Come air? It was. I mean, it's an altitude, so I would. You can run that you can run both yeah, there's a.
Sam:There's a c70 coil version. Okay, um, which is coil spacked out of the box? Nice, um, I want to say the a70 is also coil okay um, but yeah, very coil, um, compatible, okay. Um, there's no extra small altitude. It starts at small, which is 27.5. Front and rear, okay, medium through extra large are 29. Okay, and you won't be able to buy a mullet out of the box. But in the lower eyelet of the rear shock there's an option, there's a position that you can go into to replicate the geometry in a mullet setup.
Dane:Okay, so it's mullet compatible. Yes, Okay, that's cool because we were talking about the Instinct, which technically isn't, and you made a weird face when.
Sam:I mentioned it Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dane:Okay, so pros are still adjustable wheelbase, we got penalty box, we got adjustable geometry and the adjustable wheelbase is actually not a feature on the new Altitude.
Sam:Oh, it's not. Because of the new suspension design. We do have size-specific chainstays, so small has its own, and then medium has its own, and then large and extra large share its own length.
Dane:Okay, so when we're dealing with that smaller rider they can have the peace of mind knowing that it's already got shorter stays than the guy who's 6'4 on the extra large or whatever. Totally Okay.
Sam:All right, cool and altitude is transmission compatible right out of the box.
Dane:I was going to ding you for that. Right, I can't ding you for that. Okay, we got the channel. Um, we got it now, uh, geometry adjustment at the shock. Is that gone or is that uh, still there? You still get ride four, you get ride four. Yeah, oh, fuck, yeah, I sorry man, I sorry to cuss we're allowed to, by the way you're allowed to cuss, um, uh, except my daughter can't listen, uh, but uh, I was like man.
Dane:If you get rid of that, like I really like that, okay. So then now you actually get ride four. Plus, you now get reach adjustment Correct. You know, justin, who is abnormally shaped, is super long legs and short torso, so he's always struggling with getting the right reach and not having a seat post like to the sky, so he's going to be stoked to hear about that. Plus, he always memorizes all the reach numbers, which I never do. So how many of the bikes are DVO equipped? Zero, I'm going to ding that one. I'll have to change it. So when I did ask about the channel, though, is that, do you have restrictions? So, like I know, with Santa Cruz, there was a few of theirs where we couldn't put coils on them, and then, I think, cascade came out with a link, dropped the eyelet enough to where we could get coils on them. Is there restrictions as far as what it will fit in?
Sam:there. To my knowledge, for anything that's currently on the market right now, there are no restrictions. Okay, yeah, okay, so if somebody makes no restrictions, yeah, Okay, so if somebody makes something weird, sure. Okay, because even the Vivid has one of the biggest air cans I've ever seen. Okay, and it's got room and that's no problem, okay.
Dane:So I do want to try that new Vivid out with the hydraulic stop.
Sam:As do I.
Dane:So I want to try that one out I've got lots of opinions and that one out. I've got lots of opinions and that one I'm kind of stoked to see them bring back, even though the last one wasn't that great, but it's been gone for a while. Let's put it that way, let's see what else. So we've got adjustable head, we've got adjustable reach. I have to say that, correctly, it's not head tube angle, it's reach, although you've got the ride four which will help you tweak the BB and head tube, which is awesome. Penalty box, maybe a little bit heavier. But what was his name? John?
Sam:said it was faster. That seems to be the consensus Internally speaking, like out of the North Vancouver office, and I think I just had my nine year Mountain anniversary.
Dane:That's awesome, dude, that is awesome.
Sam:I have you know sometimes bikes get higher levels of pre-excitement than others and this is definitely getting the team very very excited.
Dane:That's cool. That's really good to hear, because I know everybody does focus on weight sometimes. But what I have noticed is sometimes the bikes are just faster. Yes, and in an enduro bike, as long as it pedals well, you're good Totally. If it's faster on the descent and it still pedals you up to the top and you're not just dying, that's a good bike, right? It doesn't have to be, you know element weight, you know Correct and so well, shit, man, uh, I think we're that's awesome. I can't wait to let people know about this. Uh, we will be, uh, putting some pictures up on the Facebook page when this drops so people can get a look. Hopefully we'll have some of these in the shop by the time this drops or close to it. I know that's your goal and so, other than that, man, I really appreciate your time today. You took a big chunk out to talk to us and I really appreciate that, absolutely. All right, man, I'm going to fiddle with my phone again and figure out how to turn this system on more. Hey, what's up?
Speaker 3:This is Josh from the Mountain Cog Podcast. You got questions, comments or feedback. Well, we'd love to hear from you. Shoot us an email. You can send it to mountaincog at gmailcom, Digging the show. There's a couple things you could do to help us out. First, you could tell your friends about Mountain Cog. And also it would be great if you'd give us a good rating and review over at Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen. We appreciate y'all. Go ride, Keep the rubber side down.